Bike Checks: Vali Höll's YT Fleet

 I keep seeing a of these bad reviews against yt's customer service.

My experience with them was great; took my bike apart 1 year after purchase, discovered it was missing a spacer. Contacted YT, spacer was immediately sent to me, no questions asked. The place where the spacer was missing had some rubbing and the paint was gone, YT sent out a replacement linkage piece for free. All of this within 2 weeks. I thought it was very reasonable, maybe even exceptional.

 @dexterfawkes: If I was working in service I'd be so happy to just have to send out a missing spacer (including stickers that will further advertise my product) and a sincere apology. Double the benefit to find a customer taht's vocal about it.
Frames though, different story. ;-)

 @danimaniac: on top of that, as it has been discussed a lot, the customer service of Nort America and/or Canada seems to struggle at times, while i've not heard (nor experienced) nearly as much bad stuff about the guys in Germany.
Hope they get it sorted.

 I've waited 3months for new chainstays and after ~50emails they decided to offer me carbon frame because they have no clue when new chainstay will arrive. For such big company warranty process is a joke. YT know very well that alloy chainstay on capra brake and they still demand to send them full bike for inspection. BTW "new redesigned" chainstays also cracks.

EDIT: Fair to say I love how capra feels. Great bike overall

 Always had great customer service from YT, gave me discount on a delayed bike, accurate delivery times. Both bikes super-reliable. No broken chain stays, no bottle cage though. Can't ever forgive that.

 @wowbagger: Same issue in Europe. While the service personnel is skilled and knows their stuff, they are simply too few people to deal with the issues.

Took them three months to change my broken frame. And this was in winter, not in high season...

 Apart from that, the bike rides great. Prices are a bit too steep for DTC though, lately.

 @FloImSchnee: ouch.. that's somewhat worse than my experience. Remind me to never break a frame of theirs.

 @dexterfawkes: My girlfriend must be lucky too. She has 2 YTs and any problem she’s just sent an email and as fast as the post can deliver she’s had a new part or they’ve booked her shock in for a same day service with the local Fox dealer, no charge.

 never understood 2 things about YT:
- always out of stock
- frames have issues and tend to crack, which leads back to waiting time cause of out of stock frames

 I loved my Jeffsy but did not have a good experience with YT customer service in Canada. Great product, but the support is severely lacking. Won't buy again. But their stuff is rad.

 Yep, in the 3 years I had my Jeffsy I spent a combined 9 months waiting on front triangles. YT just doesn't care...

 @dexterfawkes:
I’ve purchased two YT bikes in 4 years and they have went above and beyond answering questions, sending me free replacement parts like shock bolts, spokes (parts I lost or broke) and handling E thirteen warranty claims when needed.

 I sometimes wonder how many competing bike manufacturers have their minions in the pinkbike comments section.

 Same here but for three months and now they are not returning phone calls or emails. They were fine for small parts like a derailleur hanger, speedy mail and friendly to order through. As far as replacing a rear triangle that has four cracks radiating from a drain hole they drilled into the alu, not great. YT has lost enough value in their packages that I don't see a point in going with outdated geo, proprietary water bottles (if you even get one), and terrible warranty service. Save up an extra G and get something from your LBS or Commencal if and only if they have a distributor close.

 @wowbagger: Maybe thats the way of it. Canadians should buy from Canadian companies, Germans from Germany and so on and so forth. If you cannot have equal treatment of your customers then do not distribute globally. Just my view on ethics.

 @Moner95: I wish I had done more research and not bought a Jeffsy. Right where they drilled a hole for drainage in my chainstays it cracked. 3 months and they are ghosting me.

 @monsieurgage: well i'm still trying to figure out the pragmatics of buying a bike, nevermind ethics
All jokes aside, it makes a lot of sense buying stuff locally where you can, not only because of the ecological aspect but also because you keep the wealth from draining from where it's created.

 @jayacheess: neg repped for that question?

 @onemind123: By whom, I wonder.

 @jayacheess: a minion.

 Just be thankful you don't have to deal with Canyon

 I would have a fleet of YT bikes but after my first purchase I discovered what a awful company they are and how little they care for their customers. Never would I buy from them again

 @dexterfawkes: Well, I think that normally people who feel the need to share their experience, is people who have had problems or a bad experience with the topic. That’s maybe the reason why there are always more negative comments than positive. In my case, I have to say that I bought a YT Capra Al 2 from 2015 and apart from the 2 months wait (that I already knew before buying), I haven't had a problem.

 I don't understand this, specialized sent our customer at our shop a warranty frame shipped from Switzerland in order to help the guy out. Why can't YT do this?

 @senorbanana: Why indeed. Why do some bike companies care about selling a new bike and not taking care of their existing customers?

 @monsieurgage: Money baby

 @senorbanana: my guess is YT can't do this because it would ruin their small margin they have on every bike. The reason why a top tier Jeffsy costs ~6k and a top tier Stumpjumper costs ~11k is because YT streamlines everything for minimal cost, which includes customer service.
We can't expect to be paying less for something that is worth the same. Pricing for the most part follows logics and is not based on them just "grabbing the money".

 @wowbagger: stop being so logical.....

 Isn't a bike check a few photos of a bike with a part list? And honestly, most bike checks are far from unique. Just another pro rider running the same parts as a ton of other pro riders.

 Thinking myself it's just a catalog of her sponsor sram/rs and maxxis, Exo+ on tr bike, DD on the Enduro etc. Etc.

 @Clem-mk: if she had dh casing tires on her enduro, would the bike suddenly be more interesting?

 @nickgarrison: totally not but some riders may fit their favorite casing on every bike. Here the commercial purpose is strictly respected as it could be on advertisement...

 So what else would you include in a Bike Check?

 @PAmtbiker: Explanations on why they chose one part over another, details like tire pressures, brake angle, stem length, rationale behind suspension setup, custom details, like slope riders home brew crank stoppers and stuff.

 @N-60: All of that info is practically pointless to you unless you have the same physical dimensions, like your bike to feel the same, and have the same style of riding. There really isn’t that much custom stuff out there either. When there truly is, I feel it’s always pointed out but I bet a ton of WC racers aren’t receiving custom parts regularly. Also, is it still a custom detail if every slope rider does the same thing?

 @nickgarrison: obviously I'm not trying to set up my bike like a WC racer, but it's still interesting to read about. And little stuff like Emil Johansson's piece of grip over the brake lever is cooler than reading about "it's a Tues with a Boxxer, end of bike check".

 The best bike checks were Gravey's EWS setups. Ghetto tubeless, heavy parts, low spoke tension, psi changes from race-to-race. Blew some minds.

 Some riders are more particular and/or more involved in their setup. Vali doesn’t seem to be one of those riders. That’s not an issue at all, many pros are the same, but if you want details it’s probably better to speak to her mechanic

 I guess her job is to sell bikes. Getting the photos of the range on PB is an easy product placement.

 @PAmtbiker: why one runs specific parts. how an athlete deals with suspension. why is vali only riding with 25% sag, how comes she's riding with a coil on the capra and air on all other bikes, why on the first hand not diggin the inserts when everyone is doing so but riding fairly high pressure on the other hand, how she sets up bar heigts, why different frame sizes, why she's clamping the fork quite low but having spacers and riser bar on the other hand etc.

 She might have some priority service indeed. Envy much? Don't worry. If you just go ahead and dominate the WC circuit once it properly kicks off again and they might consider that for you too.

 @vinay: tell that Gwin...

 I also expect the same service and support that the pros receive.

 @BartDM: OOOOOoooooooh, Controversial! (Agreed though)

 @RonSauce: Then shouldn't they expect the same race results from you?

 @vinay: That's a little catty because consumers are the ones paying the bills. @noplacelikeloam shouldn't have to dominate the WC in order to get good service.

When nearly every bike and component rides awesome these days, its after-sales service that is paramount for me (which is why I buy exclusively from my LBS).

 @iamamodel: Fair enough, just trying to be funny. That said, not have massive stocks of everything is what it takes to drop the prices as low as they do. This is also the downside of how they now offer a single model with different specs compared to how they started out (a single spec for each frame and reserving the option to switch suppliers if one can't deliver). So yeah, this is kind of what you can expect from a brand like this. Privateer is kind of doing what YT did when they started out so you're more likely to receive your order. Especially as they do pre-orders too, just like YT did for their limited models (order before new year, have it before the start of spring). Privateer basically jumped in the gap that YT left.

But I digress. If stocks are limited, you at least need to supply your staff with what they need to keep doing their job. Vali is kind of "staff" now, it is her job to ride their latest bikes. Unlike the paying end user, she can't just pick another brand bike and race that. What would they tell her if stocks are low? To just patiently wait in the same queue and not ride a bike at all?

 @vinay: I didn't get that you were being humorous. But I should have known as generally agree with your comments.

 @iamamodel: Well yeah, but it is both actually. The situation is still that:

1. For a company to deliver products at prices like these, they need to keep inventory low. Which may at times imply that they won't be able to deliver or not be able to deliver immediately.

2. If you have a contract with a pro athlete that you will supply her with gear and she will only ride your latest stuff then you need to deliver. You can't leave a top athlete like this in the cold. She needs a bike for her job and you want her to ride your stuff.

3. She signed a six year deal with YT back when she was 13yo. She's proven to be a great investment and she'll be very, very interesting to other brands. If they want to hold on for a little longer, it is important for them to keep the "YT experience" as smooth as possible. She needs to develop and grow. If she feels YT is holding her back, she has very good reasons to go with another brand next year.

4. A customer pays YT direct money, Vali adds value to the YT brand. Especially as it allows them to market themselves as a brand that supports successful young female athletes which, a decade ago or so, used to be left in the cold.

 @vinay: but none of that can exist if YT don't, literally, deliver. And if you look at the comments here, their reputation is taking a hammering from the people that pay the bills - consumers.

 @iamamodel: Yeah, I think it goes for more than a few German companies. They had a steady growing business in Europe. Growing, but nothing extreme and I haven't heard any complaints during those years. Because of their suspension designs, there used to be no point even bothering with the US. They had ads in Dirt magazine who were wildly excited, they were sponsoring Matts Haugen and later Andrieu Lacondeguy but I don't think PB was paying attention at the time. They couldn't get these bikes over there anyway. Things changed when the patent expired and many of these direct sales brands expanded to North America. But I think they kind of overcooked it. They just can't keep up and that is affecting their name. I don't recall this has been an issue back in the days. Part because they probably didn't get as many orders, part because I think their business model of making only a single spec for each frame and preserving the option to change spec if a supplier doesn't deliver was a really good one. They got stuck though I have the feeling that this goes more for the market outside of Europe than for the European market. Goes for YT, probaby goes for Canyon too. As much as Rose may be a common sight on the DJ and slope style scene, their business isn't the latest and flashy kind. They're more the steady ones, not even sure whether they actually deliver outside Europe. They'd rather take it slow and do it well rather than rush into it and get a bad name.

I trust things will work out eventually, even for the "quick and cheap" brands. They've grown too quick and this is what you get. That said, I don't believe they really are that bad. It is just that the disappointed people are always more vocal, especially if the brand itself is vocal too. If the negative voices become too prominent this may be a good reason for them to back off a little. But pick any expensive-bike review and you always have someone in the comment section claiming "I can get a top end YT for the price of that frame". They rock up with this many athletes at the Rampage, Vali is doing decent so far, there is always a balance. Low price is a big part of their appeal and to do that they need to keep inventory low. With all consequences.

But again, I think their original approach was better than what they're doing now. Privateer now adopted this business model and I believe they're going to thrive on that.

 There probably are a some electrical cables inside these devices.

 The 1 cable has Shimano casing too.

 Ha, I was thinking the same thing. I find myself dreaming of a 150 Lyric on my Jeffsy to raise the bb a bit (f*cking pedal strikes) and make it a little burlier.

 Yeah I'd just get rid of the Jeffsy and just have an Izzo and a Capra.

 @PAmtbiker: would you still get rid of the jeffsey is someone loaned it to you for free, then paid you to pose with it occasionally?

I'd just keep it in my garage, clean and ready for my next photo shoot until the shipping guy comes to pick it up.

 @RonSauce: or she likes riding it, who knows? Finn Illes is always ripping around on his Stumpy instead of the supposedly more capable Enduro. I'm guessing having a bike that pedals, but can also handle tech is a useful thing to have in your quiver.

 I'm always intrigued by people who shop DTC but expect the support of a salesperson and mechanic. I understand these are "high dollar" items, but you really should expect less after sales service, thats what happens when you "cut out the middle man". The middle man is always there to kiss your ass and keep you happy, for a fee. When something breaks you can give it to the middle man and he sends the 45 emails and rings the phones so you don't have to.

Full transparency, im currently deciding between YT (knowing i may have service issues) and Pivot, where I will have my LBS for full support... and a $2000 price difference. Im not super confident with any DTC service, but what is service worth?

 @RonSauce: if you are thinking on paying for a Pivot, why deal with all the YT DTC stuff?. If you were between YT and Spesh or Trek I might understand it, but Pivot being super boutique and having a lot of good support reviews, I mean... Seems logical going with Pivot

 @HopeFbn: Price is a huge part of it. I know I'm swaying on extremes, but considering I can't touch a Pivot for twice what a YT costs that helps. I prefer to do my own work on my bike too, and barring a catastrophe I wouldn't NEED any support, so i don't mind being on my own. I can also purchase a YT in my spec an size right now and will be waiting indefinitely for Pivot.

 @RonSauce: Weird, usually YT is the one without stock. But to be honest even if you need to wait more for the Pivot, a frame warranty will always be top of priority for me when buying a bike, sadly that is why I have been buying Trek bikes, no other local brand can get even closer to the service they have here,

If the warranty do not matter to you, then go YT. Any bike at the moment is a good bike, but for that exact same reason, I look more into the value the brand put behind its product.

 I had to reread that a few times. I assume it's a quip/marketing wank about the brakes.

 Yes that was really poorly worded from a marketing perspective and only makes sense after a re-read.

 @suspended-flesh: i have read it repeatedly and i guess i am missing it - care to explain? thanks

 @twonsarelli: The bike wouldn't be stoppable *without* the SRAM brakes.

 @suspended-flesh: ah of course. so obvious i couldn't spot it!

 I thought she was saying it would be unstoppable if she could ditch her SRAM contract and switch to Shimano. Makes perfect sense to me!

 yes

 That’s because she doesn’t ride it. It was just slapped together for this catalog... I mean “bike check”

 Haha that’s embarrassing - cant even say it’s because it’s xc!

Those YT advertising press comments disguised loosely as rider’s quotes is just cringey.

 Isn't the stem just symmetric apart from the prints? If so, it doesn't matter much whether it is flipped or not. She may ride it more and just don't look at it this closely.

 Nobody wants to hear it, but I got my TUES in a week and haven't had any issues in 2 years. What will annoy people even more is that my 2015 Capra CF Comp 1 is still my daily trail bike (ridden 95% of the time) and.....drumroll.......still runs the 5 year old e13 rear rim and hub and spokes (minus 2 broken) as delivered on the bike. I bought that bike in the Cam and Howie Zink Reno YT days. Wheel is still true but my body is not. I cross-threaded an axle and they sent me a free replacement. People want to hear complaints to validate their own purcha$es.

 that does suck :/

 I thought the same thing. I am only 2.5cm taller than her and I would go S on the Izzo for my riding. She is at a much different level than me though.

 @Offrhodes: reach gets smaller with the longer fork, maybe that plays a part?

 The vivid hasn't been made in years, the new super deluxe dh is as capable as the equivalent fox but way cheaper and better looking for that matter

 I don't think Vivid is made in metric sizes and/or trunnion mount.

 Ah, well that makes sense then

 IKR? She (or the YT marketing department) has basiaclly made her jeffsy and her izzo the same bike?

 DT Swiss sponsored athlete.

 She's only 18, grandpa.