100 Women Take Over Skyline Rotorua - Video

 @Prof: Claims to be inclusive while disparagingly calling @stikmanglaspell a "mangina"... hmmmm

 @rbarbier12: I am inclusive. I have spent thirty years trying to get daughters, girlfriends and the wife to mountain bike. It’s a waste of time. If women want to mountain bike they will do it - god help anybody who tries to stop them. This is about Liv trying to promote its brand. Nothing more, nothing less - its marketing bullshit!

will it work?? - who knows.

However you slice It this is discrimination and its wrong!!!

 There's no such thing as women's specific bikes. They are bikes built for smaller statured people. Do not believe this hype fellow Riders. Do not let the pretty colors and oversized tractor seat fool you. A small bike is for a small person.

 @Prof: you are right about the marketing, and I also think the fruit it bears will be smaller than hoped.
You might not have the right type of females to influence and maybe there are not that many. It's the same issue as female DH race fields.
I don't know why any of it has to be a problem. If it influences people, great, it's not like they're advertising for fracking in the Antarctic. Any news related to the female gender titillates and raises fury in equal measure. Women are a marmite gender. There is no in between.

 @BenPea: great I just don't want women tricked into paying more money for a underperforming overweight bike for pretty colors and sparkles.

 @properp: yeah, but pretty colours dude. Come on!

 @Prof: Definitely with you on this one. It's ironic that in order to "empower women" and other feel-good nonsense they have to wait for the world to make special accomodations for them, instead of actually empowering them to take responsibility for achieving what they want.

 Well done guys, way to be supportive.....

 Liv paid for the bike park to be closed for 4 hours to the public while they had an event for 100 women that signed up to ride bikes for fun. It was also a marketing event for a Womens Cycling brand and they targeted their key demographic - Women. You people are reading waaaay too much into this, it's not hard to understand.

 @Clarkeh: how about we try to do that with men? I'm sure no one would over-react!

 @mollow: There's literally nothing stopping anyone from doing that. Just turn up with money - rent the park, and make the event.

 @Prof: that time you accidentally give props when you mean
to neg x1000

 @Prof: I Agree that you're reading way to much into it. Whether it's kayaking, biking, climbing, surfing or any other sport, there are women who get intimidated by all the testosterone of a sausage fest. A bunch of ladies getting together without the pressure of tagging along with the boys will mean that some of those ladies will attempt tracks, jumps, rapids, waterfalls, waves, etc that they might not otherwise. Once they have their confidence up then some of them will continue on and ride with the boys. Calling this discrimination against men is bullshit.

 @Prof: dude prof you are on point AF

 @properp: Liv aren't tricking anyone into buying their bikes... And they're certainly not overweight and underperforming.
Stop overreacting and go vent your anger somewhere else

 @Prof: Well... If you read this whole conversation you have your answer why women do not "ride bikes if they want to do it". You underestimate the influence of social pressure. Women who ride horses feel comfy doing it (even after injuries) because its socially accepted (and anticipated) to ride horses even if it's (IMHO) far more dangerous.

 @philrossnz: a) No one is saying it's discriminatory against men. What they are saying is that if such an event was organised for men-only it would not be celebrated; It would most likely be protested as an exclusionary, male-entitled patriarchfest (and all manner of other terms from the victimhood manifesto).
b) It would be facile to conclude that these people you speak of who are discouraged and intimidated by a male presence are simply not cut out for the world, but it's not illogical- afterall men make up roughly half of the worlds population, so they're pretty ubitquitous. You can't ask them all to step aside while the allegedly down-trodden catch up, because even if they do and the goal is achieved, the fact it wasn't earned legitimately, by competing with the all of the available talent makes it a hollow victory. It's also bad for society.
The problem is not testosterone, it's that these people have not developed their independence and accountability to themselves. Because if they had nurtured both they would be embarrassed to have the everyone else give them special treatment. Events like these serve to promote an ideologocal agenda and push victimhood mentality on those who are most vulnurable to being coerced into believing it, all so they can be exploited for profit (in this case) or political gain in general.
@zonaec: I don't disagree with your assertions regarding the issue. But I do disagree it's a problem and, most importantly, I reject entirely the methods being used to address the issue.

 @Deuce-DeuceAndAHalf: I guess I just enjoy going bike riding with chicks every now and then. If giving them exclusive use of a couple of tracks in the bike park for a few hours once a year means that more ladies get into riding more tech tracks then I'm cool with that.
a) There is no need to book an all male session at that bike park because most of the time it is just blokes anyway.
b) It's not about stepping aside while the down-trodden catch up, goals not being earned legit or hollow victories. WTF are you talking about. You make it sound like bike riding is some sort of competition. Maybe it is for you but for most people fortunate enough to have the time and resources to ride a bike in the forest it for fun.

 @philrossnz: It's not like I don't want more women mountain biking either. But this idea that men are the problem and therefore need to be excluded is drivel. These people need to take responsibility for their own development and stop blaming others for their lack of ability.
I never said an all-male session was requiree. I said IF one was booked it would probably be protested into the ground given the current political climate.
My last point was more general than mountainbiking, and I stand by the conclusion. Life is competitive, like it or not. And fore-stalling progress while everyone else catches up is a bad strategy for society.

 More importantly than all of this trivial 'men this, woman that' . . . . What would happen if half the hill was closed for Dentists and E-Bikes ?

Get a grip you fella's, grab a frothie and cool ya jets. We're all here for the same reason - Because bike

 Finding the "park" scary is not a gender specific issue. My dad is scared of the park, as well as my mom.

 @Deuce-DeuceAndAHalf: There is also a distinction to be drawn between those who ride because they can't get enough of it and those who do so through FOMO or because they lack the imagination to find something else to do that they enjoy, which does not a pastime sustain. I'm not sure that's gender specific, but it can apply to different people in different sports. Loving the idea of something rather than the thing itself... is a thing. But you can't fake it for long.

 Let's face it anyone I have ridden with is stoked when we see a girl hitting up a trail and seem to be having fun. We laugh between ourself when we see what we consider a joey, but never when it's a girl. That whole intimidating thing has nothing to do with gender. Anyway, a marketing stunt well done, Liv. You got people talking

 @Deuce-DeuceAndAHalf: " No one is saying it's discriminatory against men. What they are saying is that if such an event was organised for men-only it would not be celebrated; It would most likely be protested as an exclusionary, male-entitled patriarchfest"

Maybe so but if there is one thing we've learned from women putting shoes on and leaving the kitchen its that some men can't take any form criticism. Perhaps instead of a bikepark, a bunch of men should rent out a psychology school for a day and learn how to respond to everyone "stealing their livelihood" with the reason and logic we claim to have a lock on.

" It would be facile to conclude that these people you speak of who are discouraged and intimidated by a male presence are simply not cut out for the world, but it's not illogical- afterall men make up roughly half of the worlds population, so they're pretty ubitquitous. You can't ask them all to step aside..."

Asking them to step aside is precisely what men have done to women throughout all history. Women were forbidden from voting until 19 freaking 20! Less than 100 years ago! This isn't ancient history. The bottom line is, marketing stunt or not, chill the F out and let whoever rent the freaking bike park for a half day!

Sidenote: way to backhandedly play the man-victim and claim everything's fine with that screen name. I'm sure you show women complete respect in all aspects of your life.

 @Sardine: "Some men can't take any form criticism. Perhaps instead of a bikepark, a bunch of men should rent out a psychology school for a day and learn how to respond to everyone "stealing their livelihood" with the reason and logic we claim to have a lock on". I'm torn between agreeing with you that some men do have issues in that area, and pointing out the irony that so many women famously have significant difficulties in this regard that they require exclusionary events which protect them from any potential male criticism.
"Asking them to step aside is precisely what men have done to women throughout all history. Women were forbidden from voting until 19 freaking 20! Less than 100 years ago! This isn't ancient history. The bottom line is, marketing stunt or not, chill the F out and let whoever rent the freaking bike park for a half day!" This is bigger than a day at a bikepark. You say this behaviour was wrong 100 years ago and I wouldn't disagree. So why is it ok now in any capacity? These expectations/ demands were just as abhorrent and counter-productive to social progress 100 years ago as they are now. If it's wrong it is wrong for everyone and no one should be stifled or disadvantaged by this mentality in any aspect of their life.
I resent the term man-victim; I'm simply highlighting the double-standards being employed. And whatever prejudiced context you're trying to assert in my handle, and by extension my behaviour, is miles from the reality. It's simply a reference to how you can't rely on everything (or indeed anything) you're told. Always trust, but validate.

 I don't think you're going to reach a consensus.

 @BenPea: Consensus? I'd settle for rational debate. Whatever happened to never again?

 @Deuce-DeuceAndAHalf: rational is subjective. This is the future.

 @BenPea: Yea, but it's our past too- and the results were no bueno. I guess the best I can hope for is a swift death at the hands of my poor (and therefore morally superior) neighbour. I'd take that over an "accusation" of wrongthink by the thought police any day.

 @Deuce-DeuceAndAHalf: it's just that everything seems so entrenched. Fight or flight seem to be the only options for too many people. Too much fear...

 @BenPea: Individual ideology and morality have been usurped by politics. If people stopped now and then to consider whether the specifics of the dogmatic rhetoric of whatever political agenda they subscribe to are really in their best interests we'd be better off. It's not the ideas that are the problem- good ideas will be adopted by a free society and the bad ones will not. It's the necessity that political players require different (or better yet, diametrically opposing) ideas to distinguish themselves from their opponents. When one side or the other eventually wins, they implement their idea not because it was critically evaluated and succeeded, but because their side "owned" the majority of the votes; Modern politics is a mugs game and should be dispensed with; It is the antithesis of democratic.

 @properp: But that's what women do. The European Union investigated why products aimed at women in terms of marketing (primarily colours) cost more than those aimed at men and they found that it was simply that women would pay more! If a pink razor was cheaper than a black, blue or grey razor, men would buy it. the converse was not true.

 @zonaec: It's far more dangerous than taking ecstasy anyway, yet ecstasy is banned!

 Personally I could care less. If you want equality you can never segregate off of gender or color. If you're a mountain biker you're a mountain biker. No one knows your gender or color under the helmet and goggles. Just ride your f****** bike and get over it

 We see this reaction every time because no one can answer the question of why some women feel that can't participate in a sport unless its catered to them directly.

 @poozank: put on the gear and no one knows who's under there. You're like a superhero be who you want to be.

 @poozank: I'll explain it to you: when somebody tells you over and over again that it is too dangerous to do something, you just stop. When they tell you you're too weak, too slow and incapable of riding "like the boys" and you do not have the self-esteem to prove "the boys" wrong – you just stop. Or you don't even dare to try. Would you keep on dancing ballet if all the girls around you told you, that you're not meant to be there because you're not as good as them? That would be the sexist counter-example. Cut the "nobody's stopping you from riding bikes"-crap. A lot of people are – the problem is: it is (mostly) not on purpose. We all grew up like this. And as long as the sensibility and understanding for female riders is not there, events like this are necessary. BUT: I hope that one day it REALLY doesn't count anymore and we all just love each other for RIDING BIKES and nothing else. Be understanding, be loving, be nice. 3

 @zonaec: What if society continually pinpoints you as 'the problem' just because of your sex. What if politicians and employers curtail your advancement, stifle your potential and promote other, less competent people ahead just because you're presumed to be systematically privileged and they're the alleged victims. Is any of that fairer? You said we all grew up like this. I say, if you still act that way, or you let it prevent you from doing what you love, then you're not a grown up.

 @Deuce-DeuceAndAHalf: all of the explaining I did above is not my personal experience. I didn't quit, I didn't care, all I ever cared about was riding bikes, up until today. So – I am a grown up in your definition. But I see the struggles of others, I try to see other perspectives and why things like that may matter to people and I try to explain it to you. That's all.

 @zonaec: You say that lots of people are stopping you from riding bikes, who are these people exactly? The only person actually holding your back is yourself.

Do you think that men just start a sport and feel welcomed simply because they are men? No, they feel intimidated, like they don't fit in and everyone is better than them and is judging their every move. That is part of trying something new, you are outside of your comfort zone. It's a matter of pushing through, accepting that you are going to suck for a while and carrying on despite that. Either you will be intimidated and flake out and blame the other people for your lack of fortitude or you will persevere and enjoy your hobby. In this day in age in developed countries no one is holding women back from mountain biking. You are perfectly capable of marching into a bike shop purchasing one and going to a trail. Show me the people stopping you from doing that?

 @zonaec: It wasn't an accusation I was levelling at you, I was speaking in general too. I see the struggles of others as well, but I don't think the first step should be to blame someone else for their hardships and appeal to the masses to make accomodations for them before that individual has even tried. I especially disagree when their demands require that someone else is excluded from an activity or otherwise disadvantaged in order to alleviate/ mitigate the alleged hardships of the supposed unfortunate. I believe people should improve their situation and gain confidence by trying, failing and overcoming difficulties to achieve their own success, and not by having life's challenges (including other people) removed by a higher power.

 Sounds like you ran into a giant asshole and on his behalf I apologize.

 Meh - I run into a*sholes as much as I run into bitchy women. It's part of being of the human species.
But more to the point, his comment was a reflection of a certain attitude. It might not be the prevalent attitude, but it's the most damaging and visible one.
There might be hundreds of men out there who are either thrilled to have women on the tracks, or are indifferent. But they're largely silent. Or their efforts to include women extend to dragging the gf along to the trails he normally does with the boys, while she's in her yoga pants, runners and pedals that came with the bike.
Which is fine - I'm not saying men should be out there campaigning to drag women into MTB. Just that the loud minority of sour grapes could be pushing them out.

On the other hand, women can be "worse". For anyone who's ever experienced female groups/cliques, it extends to riding.

 I used to give way,let guys drop in ahead of me because I assumed they would be faster or have more technical ability.No more.If a faster rider comes up behind me then of course I'll give way if that's what they want.No worries.The one thing that really boils my piss is when a guy assumes that when I do something that because I've done it then they should automatically be able to do it.I've heard one guy turn to his mate after I'd popped off a 4 foot drop(nightriding with lights) that he had to do it now that a chick had done it.Really guys,just do your own ride.

 @Lelja: It's not outrage. It's not a difference of opinions either. It's the tangible injustice (for lack of a better term). The prevailing sentiment at the moment is that western culture, and in particular those that have benefitted most from it (Ie. white men) have oppressed the rest and therefore need to be taken down a peg or two. So when someone is not confident to try new things, instead of admit their failings they blame those who are perceived oppressors. Then an opportunity like this comes along, where they are free of the judgement of their oppressors (even though they're not the real problem and what has actually occured is they no longer have an excuse not to try), and lo-and-behold the victim has a great time, so the problem must *truly* have been the mens, so the original (and false) assertion repeats, and grows/ expands. But who knows if that same person wouldn't have had just a good a time if the men were there, if only they had focused on developing their confidence instead of blaming others. Afterall, mountainbiking is a helluva lot of fun The objection is not to women achieving what they want. It is to the framing of the relationship; the victim and the oppressor. It's utter nonsense.

 @hvmatt: "boils my piss" just for that you win the argument.

 @hvmatt @Lejla

Question:
A mate of mine has a long term partner, she also rides (occasionally with some female friends too)
We often invite her along (she complains when we don't), but when we do, she just gets shitty and feels like we are always waiting for her. For the 8000th time, we have told her "We literally just stopped, and we want to stop anyway to talk about the stoke"
But that's not good enough, she just goes back to the car and says 'you guys go ride' and gets shitty at us....
We encourage her, we know that she has the ability, but she just doesn't believe she does, therefore gets annoyed and stops riding, but cracks it when we ask her to come.... we simply can't win.

What can we do? We encourage her (he got her, and some other friends got their riding partners a womans only all day training sessions with a coach).... I feel like we can't win. She has a good bike, is outgoing and outdoorsy, but cracks it when we dont invite her, but cracks it when we do and she feels pressured for no apparent reason.... It honestly has started to do our heads in, and so therefore my mate now just doesn't even invite her... which then she cracks the shits at him

Ben and Kelsey, if you're reading this, go f*ck yourselves, it's annoying. I just want to ride my bike and be happy dammit

 @Waldon83: I don't know - I'm not a counselor and I don't know the full situation. But the "cracking it" no matter what you do, I've sen happen many times. To not be invited is to be rejected, and she possibly really does like riding. However, she's obviously struggling, or believes she is. She's seeing you guys stopped at the next fireroad or whatever and you're all probably chatting away and laughing and joking while she barely has enough breath to drink water, or has just clung on for dear life down a descent and is frazzled. Whatever it is, she has felt pressured (perhaps by you, perhaps by her own brain) to have ridden as carefree and with enjoyment as you. But she didn't. And then feels guilty and angry, and the most direct way to deal with that is to externalise and blame the "cause", i.e. your group. It feels horrible to be waited on, and not to at least keep the group in sight. Even if you're OK with it and she's not far behind.

Maybe she's doing the female thing of assuming you should get the hint about what you're doing wrong and fix it, but she's not going to tell you what that is incase she sounds demanding (tongue firmly in cheek...)

 @Lejla: This kinda vibes with what I'm saying; The default response should be "What am I doing wrong and what can I do to fix it?" If someone address those issues and they're still unhappy, then (maybe) they can start asking people to be more accommodating (although these guys sound like they are right off the bat).
But jumping immediately to blaming others, or playing the victim and expecting others to change their behaviour when they've made no effort is definitely not the right way for anyone to solve their problems. Should she expect these guys to slow down, or act tired just to appease her ego?

 @Waldon83: Yeah. Especially Kelsey. Stop pretending you like biking, do something you're really into and have a better life. Rock climbing sounds like it's up your street. Get yourself into the Grampians. Also, this means Ben won't lose his mates. I don't care if it's none of my business.

 White lives matter

 @Waldon83: I'm in the show up the hill camp and my friends always have to wait a little at the top. They are great about it but I still feel a bit guilty for them waiting but that's my problem and not theirs.As soon as gravity takes her place at the table then things change and as I'm faster than most of them, then I go ahead and I wait at the bottom. They don't feel bad about my waiting and nor should they.It sounds like your friend is just a complainy person who needs to look at and address her responses to the stressors that are happening in her riding. I ride in both mixed and women's groups and they can have a different dynamic but most of the time the overwhelming thing is that we are just out being kids on our bikes.Its simple fun that I and my friends love.

 @hvmatt: @Lejla
Thanks for your responses. It's tough, because we certainly do encourage her as mates, but she's in her own little bubble in which kind of ruins 'our' vibe for the ride.

@BenPea
As for suggesting climbing, sure, I mean, the grampians is only about 3 hours away :-/ - More so, if she goes to do that, that means he has to go with her and he doesn't get to come for a rip. Also, I'm finding that every time we do ride together now, all we talk about is 'Kelsey could totally do this'.

I just go and ride by my self now, being an adult is too hard to organise anyone.

 @Waldon83: I know exactly what you mean and I've seen this behaviour. Maybe there is a bit of "pretending" to like riding. Maybe she actually feels pressured by her partner to like it? Because guys like chicks who ride bikes as girlfriends?

 @Lejla: I think guys like woman that have their own personality, their own goals and their own interests and hobbies. I do suspect she wants to ride with us as mates, which we are totally down with.
We are passionate about biking and bikes as a hobby, and it's obvious that she's not as much as us.
But, she doesn't want to feel left out either.

Anyone should ride because they want to, not because of the influence of others. I feel like for her, she wants to be included, but feels pressured when she is. Either way, we will still encourage her.
Cheers

 @hvmatt: So sit back, film and enjoy!

 @Waldon83: You should DEFINITELY tell her what the problem is and how to fix it. Women love it when men step in to solve their problems.

 And earning some coin!!!

 Oh! It's brewing company in New Zealand....I need to get my mind out of the gutter.

 @b-mack: what I like is you apparently googled it ... what else popped up?

 Because many have been raised to believe they're not a physically capable as boys. Because they grow up seeing mum cooking, cleaning, going for walks, and lunch with the girls, while dad is watching football, taking her brothers to football, perhaps playing football himself. Because the toys they are given/more predisposed to aren't bikes and balls, it's dolls and toy kitchens.

Then, when you're standing there with a bike staring at the dirt and the rocks and the logs, as much as you consciously know you should be able to ride as well as the boys, you already went through your developmental stage believing it's a boys' sport. The cognitive dissonance of thinking you "should be able to" and then not being "able to" can be paralysing.

 @Lejla: suuuuure blame the patriarchy lol

 @Lejla: The most common “toy” given to boys and girls alike= BICYCLE

 I'm not blaming the patriarchy. And whoever (pipomax, looking at you) gave me negative props for simply explaining what goes in the head of many women (me being a woman, I think I might have some authority) is an insecure little boy indeed. To take offense when none was given.

Not once did I mention men or the patriarchy. Not that this demographic would even include you anyway.

 @pipomax: "The most common “toy” given to boys and girls alike= BICYCLE"

Stats, please. Your anecdote is not data. I've already dug up data to prove any point *I* want to make, and bikes aren't even on the list.

If you happen to have a better insight into the question of "why are girls so shy" (in MTB), please share. Juvenile strawman jibes don't add anything to do the discussion.

 Women are happier at home cooking and cleaning and caring for children

 @Pinemtn: this is not high-quality trolling. Try something about equality of equality.

 @BenPea: this is fact

 troll level: 0

I do love cooking though.

 @Lejla: thanks for explaining that. like actually cheers.

 @Lejla: There's cognitive dissonance there because you're starting off with the belief that girls are as physically capable as boys. After puberty, this is largely not the case. I'm not trying to rain on your parade, but that's fact. I'm not trying to discourage you, but you should be realistic or you may be disappointed. I'm 41 now and certainly can't ride the way I did 20 years ago, but I've learned to have fun with my current ability.

 @Lejla: I'm sure the man you're cooking for likes it too...

 @DarrellW: I'm a bit older than you whilst I'm not as fit or strong now my technical abilities have improved so much. Mind you I was not particularly competent in the days of u brakes!!!A wise instructor once said to me that generally women have to learn to do stuff properly and well because we don't have the strength or the bravado to Huck and hope!

 @hvmatt: And women are far more teachable and willing to listen. But women are generally more risk-averse, but also more prone to injury than men. I wasn't trying to bash women at all - I'm delighted you bike and wish you all the best.

 Teal is real

 Teal is the new pink.

 You meant tail right?
Nobody got it.

 Yeah, super controversial !

 Gestating, giving birth and raising all future humans, as well as dealing with an oral sex deficit, conjugal violence, body shaming on an industrial scale and widespread abuse, while attempting to forge a career for themselves in a world that is not slanted in their favour?
Signed The White Knight.

 complain about men being on the trail riding recklessly and dangerous not hugging exchanging contact info and making friends

 @BenPea: Hello again!! In the Uk raising future humans is a joint effort between both sexes. I have many French friends and know its the same in France. Most guys just want to keep the piece and do other things like ride bikes as an escape- the body shaming is usually done by other women to women- men see the pain it causes and would rather not get involved. The world is not slanted in anybody's favour - it is what it is - deal with it!! In another 10 years you will see the world differently....I hope I am still around but I doubt I will be.

 @Prof: shit man are you alright? Tour coment took an unexpected dark turn.

 @fercho25: welcome to pinkbike where the only sure thing is there is no sure thing

 @fercho25: Was on deaths door 2 months ago with a suspected stroke. Consultant was not happy when I asked if it was ok to go mountain biking at the weekend? Slotted 4 aspirin j and I was good to go.

All good now though - well spotted!!

 @Prof: f*cking hell mate. Hang on, a "suspected" stroke?
Sorry about my comment, just learning the feminazi-sympathizer trade. Feel like I have to overcompensate. When I'm off duty I'm a massive mysogynist.

 @Prof: That's just on Tuesdays. Wednesdays I'm Pakistani.

 @BenPea: Can't wait to meet you dude - just go easy on an old guy!

 @Prof: when are you coming?

 @Prof: you mean in heaven???

 @BenPea: Val di sole, Finale ligure and two weeks in les arcs if the wife and daughters allow. What about you?

 @Prof: sounds ambitious. Will be in Finale 8-14 May.

 @BenPea: oral sex causes mouth cancer

 @Pinemtn: Hey, small prices...

 I just wanted to make a funny about the phrasing folks, not start a gender war. Hah. When it said "take over" I just got this humorous militant forced domination by women of a mainly male focused thing.

I have 2 daughters & a wife so wasn't trying to disparage ladies.

I could just picture some activity done mostly by women and then announcing it with a headline "100 Men take over the school P.T.O" or something else.

My brain made it humorous. You folks made it all angry and hostile.