Not the best track for an over the bars...
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- Album
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- DH Racing
- Date Posted
- Jun 4, 2012 at 3:54Jun 4, 2012
- Location
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Val Di Sole, Italy
- Trail
- Val Di Sole WC
- Riders
- OTB.!!
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- Top 100 Photos of the Year: 50-1, Fails For Your Friday
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- Canon EOS 7D
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- EF70-200mm f/4L USM
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- 1/640
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- 4.0
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- 81.0 mm
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- 1600
- Date
- 2012:06:01
- Time
- 09:17:45
- Copyright ©
- Alex Tyler
170 Comments
- 714 3
freeryde-mtb
(Jun 4, 2012 at 5:22)
and the dude in the sling is like- welcome to the club bro
- 99 9
Well they certainly would of stopped him from not being able to tuck and roll out of it without having a lump of metal attatched to his feet
- 38 10
I always find it funny about the "wouldn't happen on flats" crowd. Only shows you've never ridden on clips. I've went from clips to flats on my dh bike quite some time ago, ride flats on dj bike and clips on am bike. Somehow OTB still ends up with me landing on my head. In cases of the ones like this you usually can't roll anyway. I guess I must lack that flat pedal mojo to be able to roll all my otb's.
- 24 3
Depends what caused the otb to be honest, If you have flats you can sometimes throw that last minute leap frog, with clips its hard to unclip and still jump off the pedals in time Just my 
though i did only ride clips for a few hours on a friends bike. Also having a bike stuck to your fee adds more mass to send you in more of a spin. BUT they give you an advantage in a race. If we were all worried about crashing we would all wrap ourselves in bubble wrap or full body amour, but it is too much of a hindrance, this is the same, a calculated risk.
though i did only ride clips for a few hours on a friends bike. Also having a bike stuck to your fee adds more mass to send you in more of a spin. BUT they give you an advantage in a race. If we were all worried about crashing we would all wrap ourselves in bubble wrap or full body amour, but it is too much of a hindrance, this is the same, a calculated risk.
- 3 1
@James- Carey I agree you can make a last minute evacuation but on clips you can make a last minute bike pull. I really see it being an advantage in some places and a disadvantage in others. I prefer flats for learning because on an unknown technical track you will crash and sometimes a quick dab will save you. On the other hand on some tracks you will not stay on the pedals no matter what. I'm happy I brought flats to champery but I'd go with clips for something really rough and fast.
- 1 0
@spaced, wouldn't a last minute bike pull just stop a case? I would much rather case than land on my Face... Juss sayin. But i agree they have a time and a place. One time and a place they shouldn't have been was at a day out riding, dude pulls up to the trails on clips (i should point out i bmx so this was a set of dirt jumps) Comes up short, forks snap. Now he didnt manage to pull the bike up with his clips but instead was stuck on for the ride down on his knuckles and face. There was no advantage for power there, he just got stuck. Really clips are there for the straights and flatter sections to get that power down... Nothing else. From my experience simply tucking brings the back end up enough of loosens it enough so you can take the hit and ride out clean. Or you can dab the brake and drop the nose not much saves you from going otb except leapfrogging the bars. But as i said it is a risk worth taking for a lot of people that ride competitively.
- 2 3
We dont actually know how fast this guy was going? A friend of mine had a brake malfunction riding to school slowly (like 8 mph maybe). Front brake locked sent him absolutely flying. Also i have seen some high speed leap frogs.Despite this I think the key thing most people are getting at is that if the guy wasnt clipped he wouldn't have had a bike dragging him upside down and it wouldn't have been such a potentially bad injury (landing upside down is never good). That extra mass of the bike would also make that fall harder. I think everyone has gotten tangled in their bike whilst falling, and those ones always hurt as they anchor you from rolling out some of that momentum.
- 2 5
Not to splash cold water on the whole clips vs flats debate here... but if the guy in the picture is wearing 5.10s wouldn't that mean he's riding flats? I did a brief check and I don't think 5.10 makes a single clip-in shoe..... If so... then the whole base of whether clips make you more likely to otb is pretty weak.
My own opinion aside from the photo.. it doesn't make a difference in the high speed crash department. At race, or competitive speeds if you're going down, clips or flats, you're pretty hosed anyway. Only place I can think of where clips play a disadvantage would be in freeride/slopestyle, where the capacity to bail mid-jump can make or break being severely injured.(let alone being able to pull a super man). Having raced everything from Time Trials to DH, I'd have to say that clipping out becomes such a reflex thing that it doesn't hinder the rider. Example: Once got bounced off the side of a pickup while wearing clips riding at around 35mph.. I had one foot uncliipped in the second before I otb'd and the other foot was released during the crash. But that's just my experience.
My own opinion aside from the photo.. it doesn't make a difference in the high speed crash department. At race, or competitive speeds if you're going down, clips or flats, you're pretty hosed anyway. Only place I can think of where clips play a disadvantage would be in freeride/slopestyle, where the capacity to bail mid-jump can make or break being severely injured.(let alone being able to pull a super man). Having raced everything from Time Trials to DH, I'd have to say that clipping out becomes such a reflex thing that it doesn't hinder the rider. Example: Once got bounced off the side of a pickup while wearing clips riding at around 35mph.. I had one foot uncliipped in the second before I otb'd and the other foot was released during the crash. But that's just my experience.
- 2 2
Op.. found the Minaars.. so maybe he was clipped in. But if you look at where his right heel is.. It looks like his right foot (hidden mostly by his body) is not anywhere near where the pedal should be. So clipped or not, I'd still say it wasn't the deciding factor in this man's poorly planned physics experiment
- 5 0
Why does it matter about Clips and Flats? If you like a Flat then good for you! Same for you Clip riders!
- 3 0
5.10 do the minnars and hellcat and i think another one or two other clipless shoes?? personally i think clips are awesme. switched to clips in march, and was riding DH tracks strait away, and i have no problem dabbing, or unclipping for a bail, and can't think of a time when I've thought 'shit I'm clipped in', I guess I just find unclipping a natural reaction, but I'd say it's a personal thing for day to day riding, and for racing any disceplin clips are undoubtedly the way forward, although DJ and SS riders should avoid........
- 2 2
Its definitely not something even worth bringing to freestyle bmx. We nee to jump of our bikes far too often. Dont know how easy it is to unclip mid air...
- 2 1
@james-carey i race bmx and i run clips religeously, whereas when i race downhill, its strictly flats. i recently broke both my elbows and wrist from an OTB from being unable to get my clips out. so in response to your question, unless you have air time, clips are near impossible to just throw a foot out upside down.
- 2 1
I can imagine, even with air time, you sort of need the stability of the bike to get both feet of dont you? Which is why jumping ship mid way over a set of doubles is made damn hard in clips
- 4 6
I've crashed loads on my clips, and every time it's at all bad, my clips have come undone themselves. I'm sick of all these flat riders saying 'that's what happens with clips' - it's not! That's what happens when you slam into a big rock at high speeds.
As a wise man once said: "Those who ride flats are just people who can't ride clips".
As a wise man once said: "Those who ride flats are just people who can't ride clips".
- 1 2
Its just plain untrue, there are places for clips and places for flats. The issue with clips is when you go down your stuck to a bike so its harder to adjust yourself and prevent injury. Its easier to control yourself in the air than it is yourself and the bike. You slam into a big rock at high speeds you go otb. With flats you fly and have a chance to roll it out, you have clips your tied to th3 bike and get hit in the back of the head .
- 2 2
James what you say is plain untrue about the place for flats and clips. Clipless gives you very little advantage over the flat pedaly bits. It's been tested quite extensively and the way 99% of the riders pedal ( 12 to 6) clips won't help anyway.
Also no you can manage your bike in other ways in clips than last minute pullups not to case. You can move it in any direction much faster and with greater ease.
Also ride a really rough and rocky track and tell me your feet don't wander of flats at higher speeds. Because even with a 5.10 and long pin combo mine do. Hitting sharp bumps at speed means fast vertical pedal movement and pins hold vertically much worse. DH is not bmx and there are trails I wish I had a spare set of flats. Not to mention sometimes when you grind on your chainring the bucking motion may also take you off the pedals.
Also no you can manage your bike in other ways in clips than last minute pullups not to case. You can move it in any direction much faster and with greater ease.
Also ride a really rough and rocky track and tell me your feet don't wander of flats at higher speeds. Because even with a 5.10 and long pin combo mine do. Hitting sharp bumps at speed means fast vertical pedal movement and pins hold vertically much worse. DH is not bmx and there are trails I wish I had a spare set of flats. Not to mention sometimes when you grind on your chainring the bucking motion may also take you off the pedals.
- 2 2
I dont get what you actually said there? you basically gave a place for flats and a place for clips whilst saying that i was ring in saying that? Unless you read my comment wrongly and read it s "its untrue that there is a place for flats ad a place for clips." It was meant to come out as "your wrong, there is a place for flats and a place for clips" The "thats just plain untrue bit was to the guy saying that it is as easy to detach from clips as it is from flats.
- 1 1
You were wrong in saying what in clips works and what doesn't. The untrue part is the one I argued in my post. Your specific points were untrue.
- 1 3
I meant when you are upside down in the air falling. It is easier to control yourself than you tethered to a bike, no arguing that... Clips can also give you an advantage if you use them right,another thing that cant be argued. Its like saying any improvement on a tool is pointless of it isnt used right. Well obviously. I also know it isnt hard to pick up the back, from the moment i leave the lip i know what i have to do so i dont have to last minute yank the bike up, everyone has this instinct that they just know whats happening from when they take off... More than enough time to pick up. If it did help you move your bike so easily who dont bmxers use them? (ignoring bmx race). Your weightless in the air, point your toes down and you can lift the back, just like a bunnyhop. When it comes to pedal grip a lot of that is to do with technique in the legs at absorbing shocks whilst keeping the feet planted solid, isnt that a key part of dh?
- 2 2
@James the point was not that you get control when you are upside down but that the extra control of clips may save you from going upside down.
Also you are very cocky if you think you always feel what will happen to you right from the lip. Never cought a bit of sideways wind? If not you don't ride enough. Also we talk about dh which apparently you have little clue about given the fact you don't ride it and the fact you concentrate solely on jumping. In dh you are in air from way more different obstacles than perfectly prepared jumps so it's more unpredictable. Seriously ride before you comment what works and how it works in DH.
As for why bmxers don't use them - are you serious? Half of the tricks would be impossible to do in clips (trailwhip, decade, superman, can can, clifhanger, no foot, indian air etc etc.) Also in bmx you crash way more often and on steep jumps. You need to evacuate in bmx and dj much more often and it is easier due to lower speeds.
Also you are very cocky if you think you always feel what will happen to you right from the lip. Never cought a bit of sideways wind? If not you don't ride enough. Also we talk about dh which apparently you have little clue about given the fact you don't ride it and the fact you concentrate solely on jumping. In dh you are in air from way more different obstacles than perfectly prepared jumps so it's more unpredictable. Seriously ride before you comment what works and how it works in DH.
As for why bmxers don't use them - are you serious? Half of the tricks would be impossible to do in clips (trailwhip, decade, superman, can can, clifhanger, no foot, indian air etc etc.) Also in bmx you crash way more often and on steep jumps. You need to evacuate in bmx and dj much more often and it is easier due to lower speeds.
- 2 2
But you need to evacuate a dh bike just as urgently. Yes i have caught cross wind but for that i can compensate. I have ridden a bit of dh and never had these problems. How are clips going to save you if you go straight into a rock sending you otb? Clips dont give that much more control, nothing that will save you from a crash. To stop you going upside down you need to bind the nose up or the back end down, neither of which clips help you with. A jump is a jump, you can just tell whats happening from the go, thatw why you always hear that "fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuucccccccccccckkkkkkkkk" as someone fly's through the air pre f*ckup.
But clips on bmx would make a lot of tricks easier, suicide no, bars, spinning, flips, no hand flips...
But clips on bmx would make a lot of tricks easier, suicide no, bars, spinning, flips, no hand flips...
- 2 2
Clips don't give you a 100% foolproof plan but in some cases it will help you. I know they helped me, you have never had any dh experience but still insist to theoreticize. In most cases even when you hit a huge rock you are not instantly bucked but have some forward momentum. Also in clips it's easier to make a high side hop or even a normal higher pull up (given bunny hoping on a big 200mm bike is allways lower than on a dj bike). That extra pop and some extra control over the bike MAY save you. I'm not saying it will always but you say it will never while you never ridden clips and never ridden dh.
Also nope, a jump is not a jump. Stop your theories when you have no idea about dh and riding clips. An awkward pop of a rock, root section or stuff like that can be very low or have a weird angle and leave you with no time to evacuate. What do you do then? Do a handstand ? Seriously kid. Also again you miss the part of a huge advantage on rough tracks clips are.
btw. Yes some tricks would be easier but again the amount of emergency evacuations is higher in bmx and it is safer(and easier) to evacuate at bmx speeds
Also nope, a jump is not a jump. Stop your theories when you have no idea about dh and riding clips. An awkward pop of a rock, root section or stuff like that can be very low or have a weird angle and leave you with no time to evacuate. What do you do then? Do a handstand ? Seriously kid. Also again you miss the part of a huge advantage on rough tracks clips are.
btw. Yes some tricks would be easier but again the amount of emergency evacuations is higher in bmx and it is safer(and easier) to evacuate at bmx speeds
- 1 1
spaced ,,,emergency evacuations the best words here and we all know wen the time comes too evacuate ,love me flats but am a average rider and i know for some other riders clips is the best way to go ,but still for me being an average joe and an oldschool guy cuz am old i do appreciate my flats
but great great discussions coming out here! all good !!!!
- 2 10
i ride cliped in and it way faster and i have more control of the bike which means i can beat all of you in a race
- 5 3
the amount of time that passed between him being completely fine on his bike to totally flipped over is less than a second, flats wouldn't have made a difference, you're going over the bars no matter what. and as soon as he lands his shoes will unclip, and the damage will be no more or less than on flats. this clip/flat argument is getting old. from everything i've ever seen, more people have been hurt by their feet slipping off their pedals causing accidents than people not being able to get unclipped.
- 2 1
@ndubl8 exactly. In dirt jumping you are slow and high in the air - the time to evacuate is long. In dh you go fast but your air time is often small so evacuation is far less possible.
In the end I don't think one should choose flats vs clips because of crashes but to suit his riding style and tracks but only after trying both.
In the end I don't think one should choose flats vs clips because of crashes but to suit his riding style and tracks but only after trying both.
- 2 1
@ndubl8 exactly. In dirt jumping you are slow and high in the air - the time to evacuate is long. In dh you go fast but your air time is often small so evacuation is far less possible.
In the end I don't think one should choose flats vs clips because of crashes but to suit his riding style and tracks but only after trying both.
In the end I don't think one should choose flats vs clips because of crashes but to suit his riding style and tracks but only after trying both.
- 2 0
@James-Carey - As I said in my first comment, if you crash hard enough for it to hurt, clips often come off anyway. It's not like you're welded to your bike, they're cleverly designed with springs so that if enough force is put on them, they come out (And also if you twist them)
Also, pedaling along a flat road clips may not help, but if you've ever raced DH on flats I'm sure you've got to a really rough part, tried to pedal and just slipped off. On clips you can pedal anywhere and everywhere you want without any risk of slipping, so although they may not mean you can pedal harder than on flats, clips allow you to pedal in more places than flats do.
I've read all your comments, and in every one of them you are wrong.
@Spaced good effort for trying, but some people are too stubborn to even try to understand it.
Also, pedaling along a flat road clips may not help, but if you've ever raced DH on flats I'm sure you've got to a really rough part, tried to pedal and just slipped off. On clips you can pedal anywhere and everywhere you want without any risk of slipping, so although they may not mean you can pedal harder than on flats, clips allow you to pedal in more places than flats do.
I've read all your comments, and in every one of them you are wrong.
@Spaced good effort for trying, but some people are too stubborn to even try to understand it.
- 1 0
@ hardtail29er - do you enjoy watching people riding at full speed on rocky slopes fall or do you enjoy watching idiots fall?
)))
- 1 0
im always out of my clips this far over!! run shim's with the tension backed all the way off,p.s still hurts