Legit, Commencal, Mongoose - Sea Otter 2015

Apr 18, 2015 at 19:35
by Mike Levy  

Legit Engineering Twist-Fit Bottom Bracket


Legit Engineering's new Twist-Fit bottom bracket has been designed to eliminate a lot of the headaches that come from a PressFit setup, including installation and removal troubles, as well as creaking that can often occur if the tolerances between the frame and cups aren't exactly bang-on. In fact, Legit guarantees their bottom brackets to run creek-free, which is saying quite a lot. They claim that they're able to do this by using a nylon ring that's wrapped around the cup interface, with the nylon making for a slightly oversized surface area compared to the diameter of standard cups. This setup is able to absorb the difference of out-of-tolerance bottom bracket shells, and it is also said to make for a completely noise-free interface between the cups and the shell. The nylon ring is replaceable, should you need to remove and reinstall the cups multiple times.

Legit Engineering
  Legit Engineering's bottom bracket uses a nylon sleeve to eliminate noise issues.


Legit has also made installing their bottom bracket a relatively easy job by designing the two sides to thread together. Yes, you'll still have to press one cup into the frame, but the opposite side pulls itself in as you thread it in. The bearings, which sit in the machined aluminum cups, can also be replaced without removing the cups from the bike. The Twist-Fit bottom bracket is available in pretty much any so-called standard that's out there, and versions equipped with regular sealed bearings retail for around $100 USD, depending on the model. Spending around $180 USD will get you a version with ceramic bearings.






Commencal Supreme DH V4


The Supreme DH V4 made its debut at last weekend's World Cup race in Lourdes, France, but this is the first time that I've been able to get up close to the 220mm travel bike - it's a beauty in person, and probably one of the nicest looking high-pivot, idler-equipped machines that I've seen. The idler wheel is mounted in-line with the main pivot, and it's captured within the frame and surrounded by a plastic slider that keeps the noise down.

Commencal
  The 220mm travel Supreme DH V4 features an extremely high main pivot and an idler pulley to direct the chain.

The bike's suspension design is very different to what the company has used on past bikes, although it is still classified as a single pivot system. Its extremely high main pivot works with a linkage that's located low on the frame, and there's also an idler pulley mounted inline with the pivot in order to prevent massive amounts of chain growth that would occur otherwise. Commencal is calling it the layout 'High Pivot Point', which is pretty self explanatory, and they said that it was first tested on a 160mm travel all-mountain bike to see if they liked how it performed and to fine tune pivot locations.

The shock is mounted nearly as low as possible on the frame, and it's compressed by a linkage that is said to provide a very similar feel to Commencal's previous downhill bike, at least in the first 200mm of travel, before supplying a ton of ramp-up in the last 20mm to keep the rider off the bottom of the stroke.

Commencal
Check out how the chain is routed into and out of the swingarm as it runs over the idler pulley - pretty trick.
Commencal
The bike's linkage and BOS shock sit very low in the frame.






Chris Akrigg's Mongoose Teocali


We all know that Chris is a bit of a wizard on a bike, but not even his own massive talent is enough to keep him out of trouble sometimes. Most of us remember the horrifying spill he had off the side of a small cliff, a fall that resulted in a compound fracture of his leg and some fancy titanium reinforcement, but he also re-broke that same leg a year after that accident while on a chill ride in an Austrian bike park. That second break, which was a spiral fracture, put him out for even more time, and Akrigg admits that it was more frustrating than the first because he was so amped to be returning from injury, only to be felled by an otherwise innocuous crash.

Chris is all mended up now, though, and he's back in the saddle and says that he feels like he's ready to get rowdy again, which means that we'll likely be treated to some mind-blowing action at some point in the future.

Chris Akrigg s Mongoose Teocali
  Chris poses with his do-everything Teocali that he spends most of his time on.

Chris says that he usually spends one day of the week on his moto trails bike, another on his trials bicycle, and the majority of his time on his medium-sized Mongoose Teocali that's pictured here. And while I expected the setup of his 160mm travel Teocali to be pretty out there - he does ride it like a trials bike, after all - Akrigg told me that his setup is actually not really strange at all. Both his FOX fork and shock are running standard air pressures for his weight, and the only thing worth noting is that he's using the largest volume spacer in his Float shock for maximum ramp-up.

He did say that he spends a ton of time riding clipped-in, which is surprising given what we see in his videos. A set of Hope platform pedals are pictured here, but the majority of Chris' riding consists of loops from his house, with stops at rowdy trials areas that he's built along the way. Cross-trials? Trials-country?

Chris Akrigg s Mongoose Teocali
Yorkshire is home.
Chris Akrigg s Mongoose Teocali
The new Teocali has 160mm of rear wheel travel.


Be sure to check out all of our Sea Otter Classic images in this gallery.

Author Info:
mikelevy avatar

Member since Oct 18, 2005
2,032 articles

72 Comments
  • 172 5
 How about this- why just not ditch pressfit BB's altogether?
  • 15 31
flag macross87 (Apr 18, 2015 at 19:47) (Below Threshold)
 Seems legit... They do have a place though.
  • 27 3
 On a road bike?
  • 117 2
 In the trash
  • 16 11
 They make more sense for MTB where you're more likely to find bigger tube junctions and more aluminum.

Do people not prep their frames or something? Hell, it save shops time: they just need to check to make sure its pressed properly and not worry about either (A)Having to spend the time pulling out BBs and greasing threads or (B)Dealing with seized, ungreased BB shells.
  • 14 0
 From what I understand it had to do with carbon frames and it being hard to thread them. Other than that I don't know why they have them on aluminum bikes.
  • 12 0
 Even with greasing them and doing everything properly you still can get a lot of creaking, especially from bigger riders.
  • 21 6
 Pressing comments...
  • 8 0
 Greasing a pressfit can have the negative effect of making the cups less secure in their housing. Loctite bearing adhesive is a much better choice, its designed to secure bearing which with constant replacement have worn the housing interface. Its perfect for securing pressfit cups and is not so strong as to cause a problem when removal is required.
  • 10 1
 All the practical things that make a pressfit favorable really only benefit the manufacturer's. Why? Because it saves time, money, and allows for a bigger shell which results in more rigidity around that area.

But it makes me think 2 things.

1. What about the consumers? It's a pain in the ass when you get problems or scary sounds like creaking. On a carbon frame, that could mean something much more serious so it would make me pretty nervous. On top of that, who want's a creaky bike? Drives me nuts.

2. If it's about rigidity then why not change the standard of threaded BB to something of a wider diameter shell? I guess it's less about that and more about it being easier to make the frame. Finding ways to thread a carbon frame is kinda awkward but I think pressfits are too.

Maybe they'll find ways to make it better. For now, I'm avoiding getting a new carbon frame that's press fit.
  • 9 0
 Best press fit BB (for BB30 and PF30) currently on the market is Praxis Works with their patented "expanding collet" design - very simple yet so smart its genius.

As you thread the two BB cup halves together, the slots cut in one of the cup expands (collet), diameter increases and tightly grips the inside of your frame's BB shell.

This stops the cups "walking" or any movement / creaking caused by tolerance mismatch between frame BB shell and press fit BB. I've used this design on aluminium alloy and carbon fibre frames of both BB30 and PF30 variant with no issues.
  • 10 0
 Santa Cruz still does threaded
  • 3 0
 Pf sucks
  • 2 0
 I'd actually like to see a bmx style BB. Two large bearings and an internal spacer. Done. Super cheap, super reliable, super easy to live with.
  • 2 1
 @WayneParsons: that's called BB30. Some even have clips to retain the bearings. What you see above is PF30. Pf30 is the main culprit for creaks, but that's not to say BB30 doesn't have its issues.
  • 4 0
 @mtnbykr05

BB30 most common problems were ongoing creaking and limited bearing life

These were caused by metal-on-metal contact from the bearing sitting directly on the aluminium alloy insert (for carbon) or metal shell (for a metallic frame) in the frame's bottom bracket, and poor tolerances on the diameter of the BB shell causing off-axis bearing loading, or vertical movement as crank axle tried to align left and right bearings.

The use of the wave washer and shim stack to preload the crank installation was also very crude and placed increased pressure on the bearing races.

Noise also came from metal-on-metal contact between crank axle and inside diameter of bearing. Shimano in contrast designed their HT2 cranks to be isolated from metal bearing by plastic bearing top hats.

Despite use of greases, anti-seize, copperslip, loctites, these noises would soon return causing a frustrating maintenance cycle of regular removal and refitting, for interference crank / axle designs from SRAM and FSA this repetition would soon damage the interface

PF30 alleviated the metal on metal contact by placing the bearings into a nylon cups before being pressed into the frame. However, poor tolerances on BB shell, nylon cups moving under heavy load and again crude preload mechanism with SRAM's 30mm crank pre-load collar (tighten until crank stops rocking!) placing increase pressure on bearing races.
  • 3 0
 @jfkusa transition too
as they say "User Friendly 73mm Threaded Bottom Bracket"
  • 3 0
 I think the most important thing when dealing with a pesky press fit bottom brackets is to first identify your tolerance issue. IMO if it is too tight I would go with grease and a derlin style cup or perhaps the RWC Pivot specific BB which is machined a hair small. If it is too loose I would go with an alloy cup and loctite. I have a Kona process that is machined a bit small, I tried installing a alloy cup but it was too tight and the bearing would not spin smoothly. I settled on a derlin cup after talking with Kona. Kona told me it is not uncommon to have to machine and face the BB area before installing a alloy cup. Seems kind of lame that a manufacturer would rely on a piece of plastic to make up for crappy manufacturing control. If you end up with BB shell that is too small like me your options are to machine your frame or run a plastic cup with grease. The kicker is too that the tighter shell will likely lead to the bearing wearing out quicker. At least it is a cheap part and an easy install but it is still frustrating.
  • 1 0
 The sad thing is that headset manage to have pretty good tollerences most of the time. A bottom bracket should be no different. If it's not to tolerance it's not good enough. Sadly many people don't have the oppertunity our equipment to test it from new. This saddens me as I am sceptical as to wether a manufacturer will replace a frame out of tolerance.
  • 1 1
 On bmx & road bikes. Only.
  • 4 0
 @iantmcg


on my 2012 Stumpjumper 29'e Evo hardtail, I kept going through PF30 bearings, literally every few weeks. Constant clicking and creaking under power, it got really annoying, especially working as an experienced bike mechanic who does not like noisy bikes.

I assumed it was the SRAM 30mm single ring crankset, so sent it back to SRAM UK service centre, who said there was nothing wrong with it. Was it the pedals? Was is the chainring bolts? Was it the wheel skewers? Was it the headset? Was is the Fox 32 fork CSU. Dirt in the seatclamp? Round and round it went...

Several months later I'd had enough of replacing BB30 bearings and PF30 bearing cups.

Took the bike to Specialized UK, they measured the BB shell and found it was 0.2mm out of tolerance on the non-driveside cup. When you install the PF30 with bearing it would slightly compress the bearing, causing clicking and premature failure. They had not seen this before and spoke to their colleagues in the US.

Frame was toast, and made as part of a limited run. Several days later I was given a carbon fibre Stumpjumper frame as a free of charge upgrade as a warranty goodwill. Happy days!
  • 2 0
 You cant beat spesh for warranty
  • 53 3
 Threaded bottom brackets FTW. Press fits can die a snitch's death!
  • 34 2
 If my BB doesn't creak how will my friends know how many miles I have been riding? Gotta get on strava I guess...
  • 23 1
 So, a threaded system that improves the press-fit system that replaced the threaded system. Ouch.
  • 17 0
 Wait, I think I missed the memo where everyone switched to pressfit bottom brackets. What on earth is wrong with threaded BB's?! I feel like pressfit is just asking for accidents to happen..
  • 18 0
 The big factories in Taiwan casually mentioned to brands that they could save $15 to $25 off the cost of each frame if they switched to press fit, the rest is history.
  • 6 0
 You would be correct sir. It's almost always about the bottom line.
  • 17 3
 they won't do away with pressfit because it actually saves the manufacture money.
  • 5 0
 I skim read the title and all I saw was 'press-fit' and 'Commencal' and feverishly clicked the article thinking Commencal had seen sense and got rid of the press fit BB which causes lots of 2013/14 Meta owners nothing but woe when it comes to hacksawing bits off a brand new BB because they don't want to fit the unavailable FSA bag of crap that came on the bike. Not quite the article I was hoping for but nonetheless the threaded-push-fit BB seems like a great idea if you are stuck with a push fit BB frame. Just why? I mean what was wrong with conventional threaded BBs and external bearings?! We've stepped back in time, even BMXs gave up on push fit BBs for the most part years ago.

Also I think I may have found my next downhill bike...
  • 3 0
 @veero

contemporary BMX are using press-fit BB with good success in the Mid and Spanish variations?

Only aluminium alloy and carbon race bikes are still using threaded ISO bottom brackets, typically to allow the use of a Shimano DXR HT2 crank or similar.
  • 6 0
 The high pivot should really smooth out those rough edges. I'd love to give one a try.
  • 5 0
 Those new BB's look like a great idea and the best of both worlds, saves mfg's $, still provides solid/ creak free setup and easy to replace the bearings, what's not to love?
  • 4 0
 Replacing worn out tiny bearings I've heard of BB30's being replaced 3 times in a year My Ex type saint BB is still spinning good an tight after 5 years
  • 4 0
 The fact that it costs 3-5 times as much as the XTR threaded BB I'm running now?
  • 8 0
 It costs the manufacturers about $10 a frame to add threads to a bottom bracket shell. The reject rate on threaded bottom bracket frames is also higher because the shell must be more precise than a press-fit shell. The legit solution is a good idea, but it adds another level of interface to the bottom bracket area and you have to buy it for $100. The benefits of press-fit bottom brackets is mostly marketing spin. Insist on a frame with a threaded shell so this nonsense stops.
  • 5 0
 The commencal looks like a whacky slimmed down Balfa bb7... I'd like to ride one
  • 5 0
 Niner should buy stock in Legit then spec it on all their bikes. Creakycreakcreaky!
  • 6 0
 it feels strange to want a mongoose!
  • 1 0
 I like the Legit thing although its not a new concept just a new application or newer. The threaded bb sleeve has been a problem solver solution for stripped BBs for years. Good on Legit to fix the press in creaky BB problem a problem created by the industry as an answer to a question that was never asked. Oh for the days to be able to buy a simple highend bike.
  • 1 0
 PF BB's suck. Ask any Cannondale or Cervelo owner who actually rides the piss out of their bikes. They have warranty after warranty frame issues solely because the BB creaks, even if you use Loctite 603....it only delays the inevitable.
  • 1 0
 Website for Legit Engineering anybody?

I was by the praxis booth on Friday and they said they couldn't make a functioning threaded BB insert for BB92. Very interested to see this and bummed I missed them at sea otter
  • 1 0
 Yeah, profile patented that BB about 10 years ago. Legit my ass.

I have an evolution by sitting in my garage right now.

www.albes.com/ProductImages/crankphotos/profileevolutionbottombkt.jpg.
  • 2 0
 Sucks to hear about Chris Akrigg's injuries. I had no idea. He's an amazing rider and I hope he'll be able to drop more mind-blowing videos again. Heal soon!
  • 9 8
 I'm not sure why everybody bags press fit, I have them in three bikes and never had a creak in one, mind you I service my bikes regularly
  • 5 1
 You also live in Queensland, your winters are like our summers so I'm not surprised your bikes survive just fine.
  • 1 0
 @wavetrance

my current press-fit BB is a wheels manufacturing PF30 which i only got because Praxis Works was not due in stock for 2 months when I rebuilt my frame.

After several short months of wet XC rides, the bearings are kaput in the wheels BB.

thankfully the Praxis is now back in stock so its time to swap out
  • 1 0
 We also have had the wettest summer in years, more wet days than dry almost, thank god summer has come to an end, so I can start riding the dry.. In saying that, nothing like bull dust runs, I'll have to stick up in dry lube and beer
  • 2 1
 It's all about correct installation. Your car and motorcycle is assembled with press fit bearings (and many other components.) if you are unfamiliar with correct assembly, you will have problems. When external BBs came out, people were complaining it was shit because the bearings wouldn't last. People didn't face their frames, and side loaded their bearings, causing the problems.
  • 5 0
 @Willie1

Correct installation only works when fitments are within tolerance range, when the tolerance is too far outside the usable range, even correct installation will not prevent ongoing issues.

Loctite bearing fit compound, for example, has a limited gap-fill take-up capacity and will not prevent cups walking under rider weight and pedalling torque

As a workshop manager for leading stores in the UK, I've worked on 100's of press-fit BB for customers including all the modern systems running OE parts or retrofitted with aftermarket parts, and conversion systems designed to deal with common issues.

You may not be aware how common issues were with BB30 on Cannondale road bikes, or OSBB on Specialized road and mountain bikes. Manufacturers constantly came through with new "band aid" fixes to try and address these issues.

OSBB Carbon on Specialized road bike was getting so bad we were actually bonding the nylon cups with DP420 epoxy supplied by the manufacturer!

ep1.pinkbike.org/p6pb10994408/p5pb10994408.jpg
  • 2 0
 Begs the question, what were you supposed to do when the BB cups were worn and wouldn't take new bearings?
  • 1 0
 the DP420 is a low strength epoxy adhesive which would allow removal of the cups once shot. Not too hard either, using a Park rocket or similar tool.

It was a real f*ck up though, and I noticed later frames (2015) started coming with aluminium alloy cups instead of the nylon cups we worked with!
  • 2 1
 so how much slipping on the front chainring of that commencal, once your chain wears a little. its only on a quarter of the teeth, compared to most bikes 2 thirds
  • 3 0
 it shouldn't ever slip unless extremely worn.My 2010 Jedi has a similar chain path and has never slipped once.
  • 1 0
 What's legit engineerings' website address. I can't seem to find any info on their bb's
  • 1 0
 eee... how can you say the commencal is nice looking at all, while Canfield bros is still making Jedis...
  • 5 2
 Looks like a giant.
  • 6 3
 It's actually quite different than maestro. More like a new transition.
  • 1 0
 Or maybe like a specialized from the 90's...?
  • 2 0
 Same
  • 3 2
 less product more riding???
  • 1 0
 Is that a new xtr caliper?
  • 2 0
 PressFit = Big shit !!!
  • 4 4
 The idler is not exactly in line with the main pivot.
  • 1 1
 still no Nukeproof bits? .. aye?
  • 6 7
 High main point may be better but I can't accept such an ugly bike.
  • 1 3
 Mongoose, coming to a Walmart near you
Below threshold threads are hidden







Copyright © 2000 - 2024. Pinkbike.com. All rights reserved.
dv42 0.028538
Mobile Version of Website