Top 3 Value Products In a Crowd of Pricey Parts? Sea Otter 2017

 Can something that's not needed at all ever be good value?

 Onyx Hubs had some on hand

 Students are bottom feeders, the sooner you get it, the higher will be the quality of your life. You just buy stuff that is just beyond the "best before" date. Applies to everything.

And while you still are a student but like fancy bike parts then you can still switch to medical school to become a dentist.if you want both bike parts and time to use them, sterilize yourself.

 @WAKIdesigns: Words of Wisdom, but if you're going to switch to medical school, I would become a surgeon. They make dentists look like paupers by comparison.

 @TheR: dunno how in US but I heard that by default surgeons have much harder life than dentists. Need to come on call, a few days in a row without exiting the hospital, fixing children or parents messed up in car accidents with family waiting outside. Paycheck doesn't seem to be worth it. Unless it is plastic surgery we are talking about

 @WAKIdesigns: Yeah, all good points, which is why I (and so many others) couldn't do it. Which is why they get paid so much. They definitely earn it. But then I've always heard that dentists have one of the highest suicide rates of any profession -- they have to see and put people in a lot of pain. And think of some of the nasty, decaying mouths they must see. Whew!

 @TheR: The suicide thing with dentists was from a very old study back in 60s-70's. This became the running joke (black humor?) forever. The latest study from the CDC (2016) has (us...I am one) dentists way down the list not even in the top 10...

1. Farmworkers, fishermen, lumberjacks, others in forestry or agriculture (85 suicides per 100,000)

2. Carpenters, miners, electricians, construction trades (53)

3. Mechanics and those who do installation, maintenance, repair (48 )

4. Factory and production workers (35)

5. Architects, engineers (32)

6. Police, firefighters, corrections workers, others in protective services (31)

7. Artists, designers, entertainers, athletes, media (24)

8. Computer programmers, mathematicians, statisticians (23)

9. Transportation workers (22)

10. Corporate executives and managers, advertising and public relations (20)

11. Lawyers and workers in legal system (19)

12. Doctors, dentists and other health care professionals (19)

13. Scientists and lab technicians (17)

14. Accountants, others in business, financial operations (16)

15. Nursing, medical assistants, health care support (15)

16. Clergy, social workers, other social service workers (14)

17. Real estate agents, telemarketers, sales (13)

18. Building and ground, cleaning, maintenance (13)

19. Cooks, food service workers (13)

20. Child care workers, barbers, animal trainers, personal care and service

Regarding dentists' income vs quality of life. I know plenty of surgeons. They make more than I. They were in school far longer (most don't really start practicing until they are in their mid to late 30's), have a much higher debt service and are pretty much always on call. Some like it, some don't. I got into medical and dental school and chose dental. I work four days a week; 7-4, I am never on call and can take vacation time whenever I like. No worries. I enjoy what I do and if I awoke tomorrow with more money than Bill Gates I'd still be in practice. If the only thing that matters to you is money, good luck with that.

 @hellbelly: Easy, fella. I meant no disrespect. I've never met a dentist I didn't like, except for that mean lady I had as a kid.

And to be clear -- I can't do your job or a surgeon's job. Hats off. And I certainly don't begrudge the money you make and the bikes you can afford (or not) like a lot of people on here. Do your thing!

 @hellbelly: Wow thanks for the info. I hope riding my bike keeps me happy because I am a little to close to the top for comfort. At least it pays good. #18 maybe I will go mow my lawn. There I feel better already. Cheers!

 @hellbelly: I feel honored to be closing your top 5. Makes me feel a bit more normal about my (mild) depression

 @WAKIdesigns: I love my kids more than life its self, but goddammit if you aren't right on with the last comment

 @WAKIdesigns: I was a student and the stupid science bitches couldn't even make I more smarter.

 @hellbelly: I thought anesthesiologists (sp) had the highest suicide rates because of the stress.

 @mrkamot: not because of stress, but because of easy access to the most powerful drugs. Their reported stress levels aren't any higher than many other medical specialties.

 @mrkamot: That report didn't break it down between different healthcare providers, but the anesthesiologists I know are pretty easy going. They make a ton of money too.

 @hellbelly: All the dudes at my LBS are now in therapy after reading number three

 My big problem with pay checks is people nurses, policemen and fire-fighters. Then fkng teachers, especially daycare teachers. These people get paid nothing and do one of the most important services there are. Call me a socialist loonie but fk I'd prefer them to get paid more than have luxurious highways and tunnels built around. At least in Sweden, the infrastructure is eating gigantic portion of state money and for fkng what?! Roads aren't in bad state, accessibility is really good, while teachers get paid fkng sht. No doubt our kids grow stupid

 @TheR: The real secret is radiology...

 @nvranka: you've just looked straight through this medical specialization stuff, haven't you?

 @WAKIdesigns: Not sure I understand what you mean....but buddy of mine was hell bent on becoming an orthopedic surgeon, got residency at UPENN, but shifted into radiology for the lifestyle. Hasn't looked back ever since...makes a fantastic living and HAS A LIFE!

Being a prestigious surgeon has its perks, but not if you like natural sun light

 @WAKIdesigns: My wife works at our sons' day care. While the pay isn't the best, we get the perk of half off our day care costs each week and she gets to see our son all day long. That being said, she not only has to deal with 18mo - 24mo old children, but she also has to deal with some of the ridiculous parents. I completely agree that they do deserve a higher pay grade.

 @nvranka: that was a pun Radiologist>see through...

@needsmoarride312 - as a father of small kids and architect/engineer I deeply appreciate the daycare teachers. It is an occupation being a backbone of every Western economy. How else could I go to work? I see all sorts of teachers and very few are bad, most of them are dedicated people who have a really hard job. Who can on top of everything show love and caring. And half of them don't even have proper employment with even that crappy salary the regular ones get. They are "interns". I would not like to be in their skin. Especially caring about my son and the pack of his alikes. It all looks cool for a minute or two to watch them have fun like almost no adult can, running, shouting, buzzing like a bunch of stoked hornets. Or to manage a group of girls that my daughter is in, where they all compete who is better at taking umbrage and being more important.

Regular school teachers don't have it any easier. On top of being baby sitters they need to educate kids, of whom at least 50% doesn't give a flying sht what teacher says to them peeing on the best intentions to teach kids something or making them have a good time. The older I get the more I hate pupils and students for being ungrateful a*sholes. The older the worse, because more brain power they have to figure out education, no matter how bad the system is. And in all these instances, parents don't help either. The dramatic mix of people of whom some want you to discipline their kids whole others cannot imagine their kid doing something shitty.

As to the dentists, all jokes aside, who on earth hates on dentists?! I have a particularly bad kind of caries, where holes build up from inside, once I realize I got a decline, it's emergency, I have max 2-3 days before I enter the fkng pain zone

 @WAKIdesigns: "As to the dentists, all jokes aside, who on earth hates on dentists?!" Plenty of people do. Dentists have remained the butt of jokes since the profession began. Does not bother me at all and in fact makes it easy for me to impress patients by doing nice work efficient and painlessly. I still have new patients that come in and tell me "no offense, but I hate dentists. I don't wanna be here." I politely answer them, "No problem, you are free to leave." Surprisingly, they never do.

 @hellbelly: I actually love dentist seat. Whenever I sit or rather lie there I am super peaceful, as almost never. And I never ask for any form of anaesthetic for filling job. That is one of very few moments in my life where I feel like that is exactly what I am supposed to, I feel in the right place in the right time. A very present, in body, in mind experience, free of doubt and transcendence.

That may eventually make me appear like a sociopath but I don't care Cheers man, you make world a better place.

 @WAKIdesigns: In all facets of life everyone experiences pain, but not everyone suffers. I deal with a huge range of patients and their tolerances for the experience. I am very straight forward in describing what they will feel and they may raise their hand at any time to cue us to stop, if they need a break or whatever. If a patient doesn't want anesthetic, no problem. Stay still and let's roll.

Speaking of rolling, I hope to make to your country someday and go for a ride. Maybe have some meatballs and coffee like I had at an Ikea a couple weeks ago. I'm sure there are much better options though. Party!

 @TheR: Sounds like you haven't been to the dentist in a while. Or at least not a good one.

 @joewillardsen: Yeah and @TheR you can always come to Georgia as I take care of many cyclists whom I all give deals to. We also have parking inside for those that ride here, spring water for your bottles/packs and decent coffee.

 @hellbelly and @joewillardson: I'm puzzled here. I'm not sure where I gave anyone the idea I didn't like dentists. I just joked that surgeons make more money. And sometimes you might have to dig around in a mouth far less hygienic than normal.

As for going to the dentist -- I was just there last week. I go every six months, floss daily and have never had a cavity in my life. I never even had to have my wisdom teeth pulled, because the two on the bottom never grew in, and he two on the top never gave me problems. I have insurance. You would be thrilled to have me as a patient.

 @nvranka: No the real secret is the doctor who did both my parents cataracts surgery. On top of owning the surgical center she was charging 11 grand a pop and pushing patients through each station at a rate of about 1 every ten minutes. $66,000 an hour in revenue, YIKES!

 @kjjohnson: Ah yes, healthcare. That magical industry where increases in efficiency, productivity, and economies of scale all beget price increases at least as often as they decrease prices.

 finally someone to say that MX is not cheaper/equally expensive than/to MTB

 Yeah maybe, but you can buy a trials bike brand new for 8k...Basically a mtn bike with a motor and not any of that ebike business

 ...And by trials I mean trials Dirtbike which has been around forever and are very dialed.

 @Squeakybb: Yeah, but that's a low end trialsbike vs a top mtn bike.

 @mate1998: 8k is a pretty decent trials bike. The very best that money can buy are $10,500, and that will last you a lot longer than a mountain bike. My trials bike is from 2001 (much less that 10k), and it's still a really nice bike. There are people competing on bikes from the early 1990's and still do well. When was the last time you saw a serious MTB competitor with a bike more than 5 years old? I'm not saying that trials is cheaper (although maintenance isn't that much more expensive), but it is insane how expensive mountain biking has become.

 I guess. The thing is, most non-professional dirt bike riders can (I say "can," not "do") run bargain basement crap on their dirt bikes and not have it fall apart or hold them back at the races--as an example, the $65 I just spent on a new chain and sprockets. The only complete drivetrain I could buy for my MTB for $65 is probably a used 3x9 and would legitimately, palpably suck to ride. Maybe I'm just pickier about my bicycle but I feel like that thing eats parts money far out of proportion to the actual complexity of the machine.

 @Anti -I did the same MX was costing me $600 - $800 a month ($4 a gallon gas at the time and track fee's). Mountain biking after buying bike has cut that down about 90% and I am still having equally just as much fun if not *better (*only better when I have a lift to top)

 i'm goin the other way. it's time to twist throttles.

 @ryetoast: You didn't buy a full drivetrain for your moto for just $65 though. You only got a chain and sprockets. You can get an XT chain and cassette for only $62. chainreactioncycles.com/us/en/shimano-xt-m771-10sp-cassette-chain-bundle/rp-prod126470

 both are fun af. life is short. ride it all.

 @TucsonDon: I mean a chain and two sprockets are all there are for standard wear parts. Obviously if I had to fix anything in the transmission, it would be a lot more $$$ than replacing my derailleur, but it's also a lot less likely to get mangled by a rock. And I'd still need a chainring on top of that XT stuff, so that's another 10 whole bucks, even assuming I'm in better shape than I am and only need one with that 11-34!

 @ryetoast: Well, you're talking about low end dirt bike parts, and the cost is within $10 of the almost highest end mountain bike parts, XT is only topped by XTR. You could certainly get away even cheaper with SLX or Deore, and it would still be perfectly functional.

Nice thing about the mountain bike is, the more ride you ride it, the more powerful the engine gets.

 All PB editors and writers are the voice of the industry.

 Good point. Is 26 dead? As far as new products go, just about. As far as the world of riders goes, nope.

I'm still running two 26ers myself (Specialized Enduro and SX Trail). Suntour is actually one of the few companies that still offers many of its forks in 26. I'm testing the latest Durolux and it's wearing a 26 casting. Not sure as to whether Suntour are doing the new Auron with a 26 casting as well, but I'll check.

 A 27 fork will raise your bar like 15mm. Just buy that. Plus youre able to resell it later, unlike a 26.

 @vernonfelton: How are you finding the new R2C2 damper in the durolux? or if thats classified, when can we expect a review?

 @GumptionZA: Totally top secret, kill-you-if-I-told-you kind of material. Just joking. Sorta. Review will be ready in two months. We wanted a lot of ride time on it. Cheers!

 "Suntour offers Auron forks in all three wheel sizes (27.5, 27+ and 29)"

I read that and thought f-you @vernonfelton. Using language like that just normalizes the change-for-change's-sake tendencies of the mtb industry. If you yourself are still riding 26" as you claim, then how are you going to find your next set of tires?

 @BryceBorlick: Keep selling those 26 ill buy em

 @kabanosipyvo: I've spent the past five years or so arguing that the move to 27.5 was bullshit. However, when I think about new product being made going forward I admit that 26 is often off my radar--not because I don't like the wheel size or ride it--but because most of the industry has abandoned making new products for it. In short, the sentence was a brain fart, not an insult.

 @vernonfelton: no offense taken, and none meant. I think that wording just hit a nerve!

 Yari rocks. I have it on my park bike and have 0 complaints. Super stiff, no binding that I've noticed, external compression and rebound...it's not perfect but for a guy more concerned with hucking and jumping than max speed through the rough it's a dream come true.

You can nail them for under $600, too. I got mine for like $575 a year or two ago. LBS price-matched an eBay seller.

 @WaterBear: absolutely! I have yet so do too much rock garden sending, but I have had it a fair amount of time. I think you can purchase a charger damper for it as well, around $300. Then you would essentially have a lyrik I think.

 Just email them. They respond lightning fast and give you any and all details you want. Tech specs, exploded diagrams, service videos, you name it. Suntour are definitely alright in my books.

 You obviously don't know where to look.

 I've just noticed I misread your initial comment. My point still stands, but getting hold of specific forks isn't difficult. They have these wonderful things called distributors.

 www.actionsports.de/en/suntour-sf16-durolux-ta-r2c2-27.5-140/180mm-black-17935
www.bike-components.de/en/Suntour/Durolux-SF16-TA-R2C2-27-5-Federgabel-p49626
www.bike-discount.de/en/buy/suntour-sf16-durolux-27.5-r2c2-ta-140-180-tapered-qlc-20mm-matt-black-525583
Etc...

 @codfather1234: I get what you're saying. However, in a few clicks you can have virtually any RS or FOX fork in your cart. The same (generally) can't be said for the range of Suntour forks. Keep in mind that Suntour is the world's largest bicycle fork producer. You'd expect better product availability from them.

 @Odinson:

We do have them and they can ship right to your door.

www.srsuntour.com

 Fork-wise i would stick to a yari. Fork is a relevant part for the ride quality, yari is solid out of the box plus you drop in all the upgrades (a lot) that are now available for the pike, namely seals, air or coil springs, all kinds of dampening cartouches. Only drawback to the best you can get (performance and durability wise bos in my experience, although service is a mixed bag) is that you need to service it a lot but you can do it yourself.

 You're talking about a completely different price range than these forks. There are plenty of forks coming out of Rockshox for way less than what a Yari or Pike costs that would fit your budget better.

 @WaterBear: to fit the budget a rigid fork might be better than a suspension fork that works bad. i don't know the lower tier rockshoxes but i remember my fusion slant rl2 and all the story that you would nearly not notice the difference between that and a pike or so. i can tell you i did feel the difference, in the dampening, in the spring. but not only because the fork kept you less composed and you had to go slower for that reason, also because stuff just did not work like the touted mid valve solution did not help much, made things worse and behaved a bit like the float boost valve just much earlier in the travel. what i know is that i can go faster on my deville than on my pike. so maybe value depends on who it is for. a recreational fork for a recreational rider. maybe pink bike is not the platform for recreational riders. as value for an enthusiast i would describe something like radon, maybe some stuff from yt, surely there are other brands, say a bike around €2000-2500. so i can buy last year's pike for €600 and over time when time to service i can upgrade air spring and damper. Thats quite vale for me if a new bos is what 1400-1600?

 Hey there. We do have a pretty good online presence for stuff you can buy. www.srsuntour.com.

 @carym It's a great idea. Sadly, a lot of the best ideas seem to occur to me at about 3 AM on the last day of an event...I realize that's a procedural thing I need to work on. Anyhoo, I'll keep it in mind for the next round of event coverage.

 @vernonfelton: apparently you didn't get the memo that once you become a writer, you have G-dlike powers to cover everything that every reader wants perfectly. You are doing a great job, there are only so many hours in a day.

 @maglor, I singled out Bontrager because each of the three wheels in their line that I mentioned represents a serious value. No, $1,200 is not inexpensive by any standard, but it's on the lower end of the carbon wheelset world. The $700 version I mentioned is waaaay under the norm for carbon prices and the $300 aluminum wheelset is a good value relative to other aluminum wheels with through axles, decent rim width, etc. In short, value is a matter of where a product sits in the price structure relative to other similar products from competitors.

On the whole, I agree that aluminum wheels generally present the best value for your dollar. That said, if you wanted a carbon wheelset, both the $700 and $1200 Bontragers represent a good value in a market that generally starts at around $1,400 to $1,600 and easily hits the $3,000 mark.

 @vernonfelton: I agree with your reasoning and yes compared to other carbon wheels they are good value but i just don't think a carbon wheel is something that can be considered good value.

Rather than comparing it to other Carbon wheels it should be considered to all wheels on a performance vs price basis, shouldn't matter if its carbon or alloy.
If you do this then there's many good quality alloy wheel sets for half the price that only weigh 50g or so more, i know there's stiffness gains too but its often argued that this can have an adverse effect on the ride. so i think only a few can justify marginal gains for a significant price hike let alone call it good value.

 rstsuspension.com/en/forks/dh-fr-am/killah their DH product seems very convenient, consider i have the same,
technology in my Avalanche damper...

 @DragRider: that acetate damper reminds me of the old manitou tpc one we had in the bike shop back in '96!

 @jaame: have you seen any better working dampers since tpc + as my AVA is still outplaying most of the forks even nowadays..

 @DragRider: it was certainly a lot better than the exploding Judy damper!

 +1 on xfusion, my dearest is very happy with the supply slant fork, which suits her 48kgs. 250 bucks in the aftermarket

 What are you talking? My 120mm plastic pivotal post was like 15e, who would pay 200 for one? I bet mine is lighter too!
[Re

 @hemski69: it's a dropper seatpost....

 I would never buy another xfusion seatpost after seeing how much a piece of shit my xfusion hilo 125mm is.

 @Noah353: ya I had that broke three times in one season. The new one is alot like the new crankbrothers or giant post, for such a great price I risked it.

 I stand corrected on the era/epoch distinction. Thanks, @a-prince.

 36

 hmmm, not sure I agree at that price. RS Argyle RC: list price $490 (yes they still make them, because they don't make a straight steerer for the Pike DJ) Manitou Circus expert: list price is about $400. Both can be found for $50 - $100 less. & while they don't seem to make the Circus comp anymore, you can find them still for sale for about $300.

I mean, that RST is cheaper than a 831 or Pike DJ, but I don't see going for it over the other stuff available, especially since a low A2C is important for some people on DJs, & that RST is going to likely be taller than most of this stuff even at $100, due to the 650b lowers(or it will be a 90mm fork when lowered, like when you buy a Pike DJ air shaft for a 650b Pike.)

 Check out the 2 dj forks and 1 slopestyle fork