Riding Psychosis is no easy task. The athletes competed against each other in a race down one of, if not the steepest trails in B.C. But to come out on top it requires a fine mixture of confidence, traction and the right bike. Find out what types of bikes, tires, and rotor sizes the athletes are running in the 6th event of the 2020 Clif Crankworx Summer Series.
Dead Dog at the top is heinous. I was too scared to take a practice run when I raced Psychosis in 2007 and crashed multiple times during my race run. Big ups to all these peeps—gnarly track to race.
@bikesandbeers: @bikesandbeers: The live broadcast today will be of the DH track in the park...not Psychosis. They will run the highlights from Psychosis with results before hand :-)
I didn't realize that? Crazy. You'd come back now and kill it! I on the other hand...07 and 08 was my speed hay day...I don't think I'd get down that thing in 15mins now a days.
If they do, the hot set-up will be the former on the front and the latter on the rear. We can then argue about whether we prefer a small and firm size or large and soft.
P.S. Mods, I wouldn't blame you for deleting this entire thread.
To put the steepness of the Dead Dog trail in perspective: Most of the Whistler double black DH trails are around -20% grade. The bottom part of the Andorra DH world cup track is about 40%. Dead dog has an average grade of 60% over its entire 600 ft elevation drop. 3 times steeper than a typical DH trail. Insane!
There's a section at the Kandahar ski piste in Garmisch called the free fall with a 45% grade. I stood up there and asked myself how the f*ck I'm supposed to get down (admittedly this was a few years back so my brain might exaggerate). Really would like to see how 60 looks in person. The cameras just dont do it justice.
@Upduro: you're probably talking about a 45° section, which is a 100% grade. Still, 60% of average grade on a bike (in super loose conditions!) is beyond insane
@Upduro: the steepest in-bound ski run (said to be Rambo in CB) in the US is 55°. Most double-black extreme ski runs are much less than 50°. Jump turns on a 50° slope is like stepping off a cliff; you fall like 6 feet on every turn. I can’t imagine riding my bike straight down one…
@clindblomenduro: based on what I’m seeing on trailforks, horse face has a steeper average grade top to bottom. Of course which is harder to ride is not obvious based on stats. As someone who’s ridden horseface I’d love to hear from someone who has done both.
@audeo03: @clindblomenduro: Haven't ridden either, but based on trailforks, dead dog is at least twice as steep. Over the last 200 ft distance of both trails (which are the steepest parts for both), horse face drops 100 ft (-50% grade) while dead dog drops 200 ft in elevation over the same distance (-100% grade).
Makes sense when in the 'Season' movie segment for this trail, they say: "world's fastest riders talk about going as slow as they possibly can and it's still too fast."
Yes, 200m drop over 300 m distance is 33.7 deg which = -67% grade.
I would love to hear what tires are being run by the non-Maxxis-sponsored athletes. There are other good tires out there. This felt way too much like a commercial, and not actual reporting on what people are running... or were the racers chosen based on their sponsors for this mini-series?
Definitely wasn't a commercial or intentional on our part. I wasn't there, but I'm guessing at least some of the non-Maxxis-sponsored athletes were running sharpied out competitor tires, and as a result didn't talk to us about tires.
@brianpark: Wait... I want to be sure I understand what you are saying. Are you suggesting that everyone is running Maxxis, regardless of what their sponsor is? If so, that's definitely noteworthy as a piece in and of itself! If there are non-Maxxis tires out there, I would like to know what they are, even if you are reporting surreptitiously. Both these stories would be of more value than hearing every sponsored rider continuing to sing the praises of their sponsors.
@erikkellison: Many riders on the WC and EWS circuits use blacked out tires from their sponsors' competitors on certain courses where their own sponsors don't make an appropriate tire. That's well reported and not breaking news.
Maxxis and Schwalbe are the two most common brands of blacked out tires on the circuit, but there are others too.
As a Schwalbe girl myself... I had a Magic Mary up front a Hans Dampf in the back, both Super Gravity and 2.35 width. I wish I had some 2.6 for that run! It was tricky to lock up the rear but the rest of the 7.5 km track it was perfect! All but about 4 riders were on Maxxis... Sounds like we need some tire companies to step up share the spotlight ;-)
@christinachappetta: Thank you for that info! Much more valuable than hearing who chooses DHF vs. DHR2 vs. Assegai. What Kenda? Bontrager? Is really no one in this mini-series running Michelin? Hutchinson? WTB?
@brianpark: Continuing to update your readers on who’s blacking out what at each race is more valuable than hearing from the Maxxis fan club. I was suggesting that it was newsworthy if everyone was running Maxxis, including non-Maxxis athletes. Of course blacking our tires is not news. What is news is WHAT they’re blacking out. Also, we get it: people run DHF, DHR2, and Assegai. I want to hear what other people are doing. Heard quite enough from Maxxis.
Rode this track back in 2010 after a few weeks in Whistler. Going as slow as possible down dead dog still felt way too fast and nothing has ever delivered the fear (an elation) of getting down dead dog (although I did crashed every run).
We lived in the campground by the Kicking Horse river back in the summer of 2001 for around 2 months and rode this and the other tracks on Mt 7 religiously. The best trail and area we visited on that BC trip. Racing it would be a whole different ball game!!
Long Live Psychosis! I remember when Sam Hill raced this and thought it was the longest DH of his life. That's a testament to how intense this run is. By the time you hit Dairyland you can't even hold on to the brakes anymore Awesome to see all the new generation racing Dead Dog on enduro bikes! Finn's got the right idea though. Way to go guys!
To anyone who comments about that trail without having ridden it......... carry on keyboard warriors!! Psychosis was a rad event, so cool to see it brought back to life! Golden is effn RAD!!
@vjunior21: I honestly can’t understand why Vittoria or WTB can’t get people to ride their tires. In my experience Vittoria and WTB have superior traction and longevity to Maxxis.
@adrennan: Think the casings might be the answer. WTB hasn't nearly the same offerings that Maxxis has. Looks like Schwalbe has fiiiinally stepped up to the plate, maybe we'll start seeing a bigger presence from them.
@Unrealityshow: I guess it depends on where you ride. In Phoenix the very sharp rock are unforgiving. Every rider that I have known has shredded a new tire within the for couple rides at some point out here. Maxxis tires have simply delivered with few to no problems...that is with normal non double down casing. Maxxis work in other territories well too. At the cost of $55 to $80 a tire...I go whit what I know will last until the knobs are worn off.
@makripper: Lots of riders considered it but DD is only 300 meters of trail on a 7.5 km long course. So the rest of the rack was sweet on normal tires.
@Honda750: Ha, I’m just jealous the best resorts are north of the border. Oh ya, I caught #Rona in June. Don’t believe all the doom and gloom in the media.
I think there are only a few in the field who aren't contractually bound to ride Maxxis. Casey Brown and Brett Rheeder are both bontrager. Fab Cousine I think is still Kenda. And then Finn who is Specialized, but we all now know that that team is running blacked out Maxxis. So, yeah nah not many others.
I don't ride like these guys (at all) but I switch between both. Assegai has a ton of grip but rolls slow. I like the DHF on my trail bike for summer time.
@rideyourbikemore: alright after watching the video of Nate Hills crawling down dead dog I’m pretty sure it’s significantly steeper than horseface. Still not sure how much. I’d love to hear from someone who’s ridden both
@benshaw: I would expect steeper overall...but trails can’t get much steeper than parts of Honey Drop without riders dying due to excessive speed and inability to brake, haha.
@benshaw: Oh, and the pics I included are from upper Honey Drop — you can cut in half way from other trails and lower Honey Drop isn’t anywhere close to as steep as the upper section.
@makripper: I guess I’ll take your word for it as an overall impression of the trails, but all the videos and pics (on bike and off) of the whole first 1km+ look just typical pro-level double-black mega-steep but extra long and consistently thrilling because you can’t really stop on trails like that (but that section doesn’t have the solid jagged embedded rocks like in my pics). I’ve ridden with numerous top-20 World Cup DHer’s and was top-15 North American myself during the golden era of DH, but the way pros and non-pros alike (on various bikes) ride Dead Dog indicates it’s not gnarlier than my aforementioned sections of Honey Drop. Surely a much more challenging trail overall, but calling it “much much steeper” or “nothing compared to” the sections I’m referring to is an exaggeration — look at the pics and tell me I’m wrong =P. I would accept those claims regarding the trail as a whole, but not with respect to the gnarliest sections of upper Honey Drop at Sun Peaks in recent years. I’ve ridden with Kovarik and other top racers in the Pro class at races from 98-02, and the way they and others ride Dead Dog (on-bike camera, stationary, and drone) tells me it’s just a very steep trail in parts, long, and consistently very challenging and likely terrifying at times.
@mexicanbikefiesta: @makripper: I guess I’ll take your word for it as an overall impression of the trails, but all the videos and pics (on bike and off) of the whole first 1km+ look just typical pro-level double-black mega-steep but extra long and consistently thrilling because you can’t really stop on trails like that (but that section doesn’t have the solid jagged embedded rocks like in my pics). I’ve ridden with numerous top-20 World Cup DHer’s and was top-15 North American myself during the golden era of DH, but the way pros and non-pros alike (on various bikes) ride Dead Dog indicates it’s not gnarlier than my aforementioned sections of Honey Drop. Surely a much more challenging trail overall, but calling it “much much steeper” or “nothing compared to” the sections I’m referring to is an exaggeration — look at the pics and tell me I’m wrong =P. I would accept those claims regarding the trail as a whole, but not with respect to the gnarliest sections of upper Honey Drop at Sun Peaks in recent years. I’ve ridden with Kovarik and other top racers in the Pro class at races from 98-02, and the way they and others ride Dead Dog (on-bike camera, stationary, and drone) tells me it’s just a very steep trail in parts, long, and consistently very challenging and likely terrifying at times.
With so much more braking power coming from the front wheel, I'm not sure why so many people run the exact same caliper/rotor/pad combo front and back. You either end up with not enough stopping power in the front, or more stopping power than traction in the rear.
I love the hearing the guy explain in detail his tire setup and then see a shot of him dragging a locked up back wheel straight down the mountain for the entire clip.
As a heavier guy, I’ve always thought the same, but the long and slack bikes of today do allow for a lot more rear brake action then in the “good old days” and my current theory, big rear rotor helps with preventing brake fade for more consistent use/ controlling speed, the front brake gets tasked for Rapid decelerations But doesn’t see the same heat soak brake drag that the rear gets.
I'm fairly confident I've never said to myself "I wish my brakes were less powerful" but I know I've wished for my fingers to be better at not locking up my brakes, which I manage with 2 piston calipers and 160mm rotors.
@pacificnorthwet: I sure wouldn’t got that far! I’m 190lbs and can definitely make Guides fade badly I can make Codes really work hard, but nothing that made me worried yet. I’ve stuck with SRAM for ease of bike fleet care as everything my wife and I own came with SRAM, keeps the spares and tool count lower.
Metallic pads for the win even though the noise can be a pain in the arse.
@Honda750: Yeah, I've been in the same boat with the SRAM brakes since I have them on three bikes, am used to the feel, and have the bleed kit. I would never actually run a smaller rotor in the rear, but I found their commentary interesting. I've been running 4 piston brakes with 200/180 and metallic pads for years, but have been thinking about upping that to 220/200. Now I'm wondering if I should look into 220 for the rear as well.
IMHO pretty stupid and self serving to race Psychosis. In the short term it's rad, gnarly, the steepest blah blah blah. In the short term it's massive trail erosion and mountainside destruction that does nothing to serve riders of the future.
Friday, August 7:
Maxxis Kicking Horse DH
- Live Broadcast: 2:30-4:15 p.m. PDT
P.S. Mods, I wouldn't blame you for deleting this entire thread.
If the 200, 300m numbers are correct, the trail is @33.7deg
Makes sense when in the 'Season' movie segment for this trail, they say: "world's fastest riders talk about going as slow as they possibly can and it's still too fast."
Yes, 200m drop over 300 m distance is 33.7 deg which = -67% grade.
Maxxis and Schwalbe are the two most common brands of blacked out tires on the circuit, but there are others too.
What Kenda? Bontrager? Is really no one in this mini-series running Michelin? Hutchinson? WTB?
I guess it depends on where you ride. In Phoenix the very sharp rock are unforgiving. Every rider that I have known has shredded a new tire within the for couple rides at some point out here. Maxxis tires have simply delivered with few to no problems...that is with normal non double down casing. Maxxis work in other territories well too. At the cost of $55 to $80 a tire...I go whit what I know will last until the knobs are worn off.
www.pinkbike.com/photo/19171180
www.pinkbike.com/photo/19171179
www.pinkbike.com/photo/2236020
www.pinkbike.com/news/mount-7-psychosis-decade-2008.html
Metallic pads for the win even though the noise can be a pain in the arse.