Hayes Prime Brakes - How They Came To Life
The still to be released Hayes Prime brake has generated an incredible amount of interest as the details have trickled out. While consumers will have to wait until June to get their gloved paws on the Prime, we wanted to get some insight into what it takes to bring a new brake to the market. Inside you'll find some great info from the engineers who worked on the Prime project as they answer some questions that we threw their way.
Read on...Anytime a new product is released my interest is piqued. I'm especially interested when it's an entirely new brake system from Hayes, one of the first names in braking. Judging by the amount of comments on the Prime press releases, you guys have some questions as well. We sat down with some of the people responsible for the new Prime brake to see what it takes to come up with an entirely new product. The answers include a lot of computer modeling, some seriously big and scary machines to test the results, and handmade prototypes.
![photo]()
How long has the new Prime brake been in development?
The Prime has been in development for over two years now in some form. We have a pile of prototypes that never made it to production. We literally cherry picked elements that we liked and dropped them into the Prime.
What were the design goals with the new Prime brake?
(John Thomas, lead engineer for the Prime project) Development of Prime began with a set of goals for the brake system that were set by a team including engineering, technicians, sales, marketing, and product management. My job was to deliver a brake system that met those goals. Three main design aspects stood out: increased power, dead stroke adjustment, and durability. It was clear that this would be a completely new system and I would have to start from scratch.
![photo]()
Can you explain the development process that is taken with a new product like the Prime, from drawings to prototypes and beyond?
(Tim Abhold, project manager for the Prime brake) Hayes has developed an in-house and proprietary brake system analysis, Virtual Brake System Modeling Software, to model the performance of hundreds of potential brake systems before ever creating the first prototype. We input dozens of caliper, lever, hose and rotor parameters (including finite element modeling results) and use them to build a system model. From there we can make component adjustments to this “virtual brake system” and see the effects on performance without having to actually build the components. We also model our competitors’ systems, verify the models with physical testing, and use them as comparative benchmarks. The result is being able to model and adjust literally hundreds of system configurations without the time or cost of prototype builds. The time we would have spent prototyping is used to fine tune the system to provide the optimal performance balance to the rider.
![photo]()
Hayes claims a 20% power increase, how do you achieve this?
(John Thomas Lead, engineer for the Prime project) I set up a mathematical model of the entire brake system and used test data to verify the accuracy. Then I went through an iterative process of changing all kinds of parameters until I found the best balance of power and modulation. Once those parameters were set I made crude CAD models of the system to make sure they were realistic. The big contributors to the increased power for Prime are the increased caliper piston size (made possible by a stiffer caliper, stiffer hose, and offset piston retraction) and the new reach adjust mechanism which keeps a consistent lever ratio.
Hayes Prime bench testing
What new technology sets the Prime apart from other brakes?
(John Thomas Lead engineer for the Prime project) Dead stroke adjustment. I spent probably too much time sketching different ways of achieving it and listing the pros and cons of each idea. I also looked at some sketching I did for Ace (back when that system had a new master cylinder with dead stroke adjustment). I ended up using one of the ideas from the Ace sketches: the poppet cam which was a modification of an automotive master cylinder for ABS. The first hurdle was whether a workable system could be made on the tiny scale of a bike master cylinder. So we made a Frankenstein proof of concept: a Stroker master cylinder reworked with the poppet cam inside. It was a real beauty, the lever home position was set by a bent paper clip. However, the part functioned correctly and proved the concept was feasible. Another benefit of the poppet cam is increased flow area to reservoir, so I spent some time optimizing the flow path through the valve to obtain as much benefit as possible. After that it was just a matter of maturing the design.
Hayes Prime Poppet Cam detail
Does the Prime use any materials that are new to Hayes? If so, what use are they put to?
Everything in the Prime has been used in some form or another over the last 12 years. Titanium, various alloys, plating’s, friction materials. No carbon or magnesium yet…
Are there less separate parts in the Prime master cylinder as compared to past models?
The master cylinder does have more parts than previous Hayes systems. However, we have learned what materials and designs are the most durable in various riding environments around the world. The caliper, hose, and pad material are all new, but they are produced in a similar manner to previous Hayes systems.
![photo]()
Is the Prime replacing a current model brake in the Hayes lineup?
Yes and no. The two new Prime models (Pro and Expert) are not replacing any of the exiting Stroker family. However, new models of Prime are on the horizon both at higher and lower price points. These brakes will take the place of Strokers.
Who's bikes will we see the new Prime brake on?
All of the HTP (Hayes Test Program) riders will be on the Prime this Spring, if they aren’t already. All Hayes sponsored teams and individuals will also get first dibs on Primes. We have orders from a variety of OEM’s and distributors for their teams and bikes. You can bet a set will be on Mike Levy’s ride…
Hayes Prime impact testing
![photo]()
Hayes Prime Details
• Improved Reach Adjust
Tool-free design that is independent of the contact adjustment. This feature has improved durability and aesthetics over the existing Stroker design. Additionally, mechanical advantage is fixed regardless of lever home position. This means you get the same power and feel with the lever set close to the grip as you do with it set further away.
• Mechanical Leverage Ratio
Increased throughout the entire lever stroke, resulting in a high power level later in the stroke. This promotes progressive braking that is more predictable (modulation).
• Hydraulic Power Ratio
20% increase in hydraulic ratio over the Stroker Trail. Higher clamp force on the rotor is reached with the same given input at the lever blade
![photo]()
Hayes Prime Model Options
![photo]()
Visit the Prime brake website for more info!
Read on...Anytime a new product is released my interest is piqued. I'm especially interested when it's an entirely new brake system from Hayes, one of the first names in braking. Judging by the amount of comments on the Prime press releases, you guys have some questions as well. We sat down with some of the people responsible for the new Prime brake to see what it takes to come up with an entirely new product. The answers include a lot of computer modeling, some seriously big and scary machines to test the results, and handmade prototypes.
Hayes Prime
How long has the new Prime brake been in development?
The Prime has been in development for over two years now in some form. We have a pile of prototypes that never made it to production. We literally cherry picked elements that we liked and dropped them into the Prime.
What were the design goals with the new Prime brake?
(John Thomas, lead engineer for the Prime project) Development of Prime began with a set of goals for the brake system that were set by a team including engineering, technicians, sales, marketing, and product management. My job was to deliver a brake system that met those goals. Three main design aspects stood out: increased power, dead stroke adjustment, and durability. It was clear that this would be a completely new system and I would have to start from scratch.
A look inside the Prime master cylinder
Can you explain the development process that is taken with a new product like the Prime, from drawings to prototypes and beyond?
(Tim Abhold, project manager for the Prime brake) Hayes has developed an in-house and proprietary brake system analysis, Virtual Brake System Modeling Software, to model the performance of hundreds of potential brake systems before ever creating the first prototype. We input dozens of caliper, lever, hose and rotor parameters (including finite element modeling results) and use them to build a system model. From there we can make component adjustments to this “virtual brake system” and see the effects on performance without having to actually build the components. We also model our competitors’ systems, verify the models with physical testing, and use them as comparative benchmarks. The result is being able to model and adjust literally hundreds of system configurations without the time or cost of prototype builds. The time we would have spent prototyping is used to fine tune the system to provide the optimal performance balance to the rider.
Hayes claims a 20% power increase, how do you achieve this?
(John Thomas Lead, engineer for the Prime project) I set up a mathematical model of the entire brake system and used test data to verify the accuracy. Then I went through an iterative process of changing all kinds of parameters until I found the best balance of power and modulation. Once those parameters were set I made crude CAD models of the system to make sure they were realistic. The big contributors to the increased power for Prime are the increased caliper piston size (made possible by a stiffer caliper, stiffer hose, and offset piston retraction) and the new reach adjust mechanism which keeps a consistent lever ratio.
What new technology sets the Prime apart from other brakes?
(John Thomas Lead engineer for the Prime project) Dead stroke adjustment. I spent probably too much time sketching different ways of achieving it and listing the pros and cons of each idea. I also looked at some sketching I did for Ace (back when that system had a new master cylinder with dead stroke adjustment). I ended up using one of the ideas from the Ace sketches: the poppet cam which was a modification of an automotive master cylinder for ABS. The first hurdle was whether a workable system could be made on the tiny scale of a bike master cylinder. So we made a Frankenstein proof of concept: a Stroker master cylinder reworked with the poppet cam inside. It was a real beauty, the lever home position was set by a bent paper clip. However, the part functioned correctly and proved the concept was feasible. Another benefit of the poppet cam is increased flow area to reservoir, so I spent some time optimizing the flow path through the valve to obtain as much benefit as possible. After that it was just a matter of maturing the design.
Does the Prime use any materials that are new to Hayes? If so, what use are they put to?
Everything in the Prime has been used in some form or another over the last 12 years. Titanium, various alloys, plating’s, friction materials. No carbon or magnesium yet…
Are there less separate parts in the Prime master cylinder as compared to past models?
The master cylinder does have more parts than previous Hayes systems. However, we have learned what materials and designs are the most durable in various riding environments around the world. The caliper, hose, and pad material are all new, but they are produced in a similar manner to previous Hayes systems.
Dyno at the Hayes factory that tests reliability and power
Is the Prime replacing a current model brake in the Hayes lineup?
Yes and no. The two new Prime models (Pro and Expert) are not replacing any of the exiting Stroker family. However, new models of Prime are on the horizon both at higher and lower price points. These brakes will take the place of Strokers.
Who's bikes will we see the new Prime brake on?
All of the HTP (Hayes Test Program) riders will be on the Prime this Spring, if they aren’t already. All Hayes sponsored teams and individuals will also get first dibs on Primes. We have orders from a variety of OEM’s and distributors for their teams and bikes. You can bet a set will be on Mike Levy’s ride…
Prime brakes seen at the Taipei Bike Show
• Improved Reach Adjust
Tool-free design that is independent of the contact adjustment. This feature has improved durability and aesthetics over the existing Stroker design. Additionally, mechanical advantage is fixed regardless of lever home position. This means you get the same power and feel with the lever set close to the grip as you do with it set further away.
• Mechanical Leverage Ratio
Increased throughout the entire lever stroke, resulting in a high power level later in the stroke. This promotes progressive braking that is more predictable (modulation).
• Hydraulic Power Ratio
20% increase in hydraulic ratio over the Stroker Trail. Higher clamp force on the rotor is reached with the same given input at the lever blade
Prime floating rotor is available in 140, 160, 180, 203, 224 mm
 |  |
| Hayes Prime Pro • Tool free dead stroke adjustment • Four layer low expansion hose • Two piece floating rotor • Titanium/anodized aluminum hardware • Laser etched graphics • Titacon lever bushings • Sintered metallic pads as stock • Hose grommets as standard • Titanium pushrod • Premium finish and cosmetics | Hayes Prime Expert • Tool free dead stroke adjustment • Standard hose • Stamped stainless steel rotor • Aluminum/steel hardware • Pad printed graphics • Titacon lever bushings • Semi-metallic pads as stock • Hose grommets not stock • Steel pushrod • Standard finish |
Hayes Prime caliper at the Taipei Bike Show
Visit the Prime brake website for more info!
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Member since Oct 18, 2005
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For those of you that say these will suck, just wait a year and see how they go - if these are completely redesigned then past history means little. Everyone learns from mistakes - IF there were problems with the Strokers, then I'm sure they've been rectified now.
Mike, you must be the busiest man in MTB looking at the amount of stories you've done lately.
Oh wait...
Oh wait...
And I have a set of at least two year old Hayes Nines going as strong as they ever did, thank you very much.
I'd like to see the modulation on them when they come out. From what I can tell, Hayes is trying to make a lineup with different power/modulation like Avid has with the Juicy's, Elixers and Codes.
ant body notice a reacurring theme here
gotta admit tho if i had this amount of £ to spend on breakes....i'd get some hopes
Also.. my friend had numerous problems with his jucy 3 brakes.
Now don't get me wrong - hfx9 is way from being a perfect brake, but in the end all that is important is that brake safely stops you and that it doesn't ruin your ride by annoying rubbing noises (which nowadays does every brake - even Tektro!)
I wish all of you love, peace and Dosenbier!
I'm noticing some pretty strong opinions but rest assured, they are getting attention and will be released with a sense of curiosity from riders.
So, what is the caliper piston size?
Also, these brakes are claiming 20% increase in power over Stroker Trails. How do they stack up against Stroker Aces?
Lastly, I'd REALLY like to know if the Prime lever assembly would be compatible with the Ace capliper, and what would be the end result in power & modulation.
If so, the way I read it, the primes are "supposed" to be even more powerful than the Aces, not less.
Bottom line, the El Caminos may have been bad, every company has hicups at some point. Hayes and Avid by far offer the best value to performance ratio. Maguras are junk and that blue blood crap you have to use is just a scam so that you have to bleed your brakes every season requiring you to buy a continuous supply of the stuff.
The levers are so loooong, after bending one your brakes will be fuc*ed-up.
Something is telling me it is going to be disaster, but before everyone admits it, the media will be pumped with advertising and great reviews.
i like the look of these brakes... remind me of formulas for some reason:/ if they arent stupidly over priced i might consider investing in some...
Hopes on the other hand
Or am I just being thick?
A mate bought a pair of Avid Elixir R's about 6 months ago and literally all he has had is problems. The factory bleed was terrible, and after 5 or 6 bleeds his rear brake still refuses to give a good lever feel and bite point, with very little power. He has already had to change the pads once because of a few muddy rides.
To me, it's not hard to see which is the better brake. Don't get me wrong, I love the Sram group, but I honestly see no argument that strong against Hayes.
basically hayes are good, cheap brakes which shouldn't have so many haters.
The only Hayes I have disliked have been low end models like the Sole or whatever and thats not Hayes fault, they are low-end entry level brakes.
overall - Stupid.
2- even tho i run Juicy's now, i do miss the simplicity of bleeding my Hayes (since i dont pay some shop to do my shiat)
3- Hayes bicycle group (manitou, hayes, etc) customer service is the ABSOLUTE BEST in the market.
4- half the damn opinions on here (Hayes hate) are from some 14 yr old kid that has NEVER bled his own brakes (and probly doesnt know how to either) and is running the same pads/oil since be got his bike 3 years ago....in other words~no sh!t they failed, what did you expect
may i ask how? i broke my stroker rydes after 1 month and hayes didnt even send me the tiny little replacement pin even though it was under warranty. my dorado broke after 2 months and when i called hayes they just ignored me because the old dorado isnt part of their company anymore and they didnt even suggest how i could get help with my problem. sram on the other hand is very good. my friend has gotten 3 new totems, the original one not even under warranty, and avid has sent me 2 sets of brake pads and my friend a brand new code for free
and im not some 14 year old retard trend whore who cant bleed his own brakes, just if youre wondering
I've had my Hayes Mags system on 5 different bikes over the past 11 years and never had a single problem, also never bled them.
My riding buds with Juicys and Codes are always messing with them; getting them to stop squealing, bleeding them, etc....
but the sole i had, and stroker i own are absolute cheese nothing but hassle bent piston pin in stroker on day of purchase, pistons sticking ...... stancion on stances blew up, also axel and blacks where useless