Specialized Prototype Pedals And Carbon Full face

 true that the deviants were the definition of fugly

 Nice helmet Specialized, only 18 months behind Troy Lee.

 But I remember everyone saying the same thing about Sam switching from Ironhorse to Specialized, and again from Maxxis tires to Spec tires. Shit's all the same anymore, just paying for name status. But chances are Sam's going to do what ever his new master, Specialized, tells him to do.

 Thing about troy lee is that they make their stuff in china, not sure bout specialized though... Not sayin i dislike tld helmets though, man id kill for a d3...

 Specialized and Maxxis tyres come out of the same factories anyway (CST). Made in the same way, out of the same stuff, by the same people.

And for the money Sam's getting, I'd wear whatever helmet they asked me to!

 Who cares what the helmet looks like, I have a Deviant Carbon back from '08 and it's SO light and cool that it could look like a kona for all I care.

 Yeah I agree no more giant duck bill looking helmets lol. Those helmets look great.

 @ShastaOutdoorMedia
that 08 helmet of yours is so light due to it being a one crash helmet, its expired

 D2's and D3's are also one crash helmets.

 Nice...Brit-100 pretty much parrots what I said and I get neg propped off the page. So I'll say it agian: EVERYTHING is the same anymore, just paying for a name
And I love how 4-5 years ago, it was the "Evil Big-Red-S Empire", ready to drop a lawsuit on anyone who even thought about starting their own name with an "S" and now they're "on top of the game". They're still corporate f*ckwads.
Now neg prop away again cuz it makes you kids feel better, I'm goin for a muddy ride.

 The Deviant might not have been the prettiest, but man did it breathe nicely. I chose it over my XC lid when I wanted to do some AM riding, never took it off even on long climbs.

 yea, its a great helmet! the new helmet doesnt look as vented...!?

 A rider doesn't even have to be sponsored by a company to test a product, so of course Spesh can ask him to test a lid, they're paying him. It's not like he's dropping TLD to test a lid, keep your pants on. All mtb lids are technically 1 crash helmets, that hasn't stopped my crashing my d2 loads of times and it's fine.

 this helmet looks like a D3... If I didn't know, I would not have seen it...

 Dirteveryday If I remember correctly. Sam Hill's contract stipulated that he could run any tire he wanted. Specialized had to earn that one, and if Sam was riding Troy Lee helmets, then that was his choice also. I'd ask Sam before I postulated that he rides what he is told to ride at the big S. Sam's opinion counts in Morgan Hill.

 I dont think they actually are supposed to break away on impact, its just that they screw in from the bottom. In that case, if you break off a pin, you are left with the half that you can unscrew. Im not super sure, but thats how i read it.

 Under cut means that there is a relief cut built into the screw base so that on an impact it will break away the top part (the pointy part) which lets you unscrew the intact part without stripping the threads in the pedal. Good idea but you will be replacing pins more frequently because of it.

 i have twenty6 prerunner pedals that have breakaway pins and it is actually pretty sweet. It is alot less effort to replace pins that come out easily. i usually keep some spares so if i absolutely needed all the pins in it is no big deal to replace them. and on the other hand pedals have two sides...

 The pins look pretty thick, so I doubt your going to be snapping them left right and centre. I think it's a pretty good solution. Unscrewing a snapped pin and replacing it is alot easier than taking out a grub screw pin thats been bent over flat, or snapped.

 Sure, pedals have two sides but when you're riding and have to dab then put your foot back up quickly you don't really have a choice which side your foot goes on. I modified my old Axiom Road Gap pedals a few years back to accept socket head screws threaded in from the back side. On a couple of occasions I had to hit the bend pins with a dremel to be able to unscrew them but with a good quality pin they usually stand up pretty well. Aluminum and stainless steel pins might not get rusty looking but a good quality plated steel pin is the best. They stand up to abuse very well.

 Yeah I hear you on that. I just like the ease of replacing on the fly and because I am retarded with power tools of any sort I don't have to worry about using/abusing them. The prerunners don't spin freely so they usually stay where I left them. So in a dab situation (which I am often a part of because I have a hard time staying on my bike cycle) they are usually at the same spot for the most part.

 Are all of you really replacing pins that much? I'm proud to say that in 4 years of riding I've never had to replace pins, and I've never bent or snapped one...And my hardtail pedals see alot of pedal grinds....Just curious if I've just had good luck, or what?

 I have what most people call 'no pedal awareness' especially when I am racing. i bash my pedals all the time.

 Probably why I haven't won races recently hahaha, I don't pedal in rock gardens...but hey, it's san diego, our rocks are 3 inches tall, so who's gonna hit them with a pedal? XD

 I've been riding for as long as I can walk, I rarely hit my pedals on anything.. you just gain a 6th sense for when you should and shouldn't pedal. I probably smack my pedals maybe once a season and usually on wood too so it's very rare for me to bother with replacing pins.

 I've never snapped a pin I don't think. Always smash my pedals, and never check them. Guess I should. I snapped a chunk off the pedal, that had a pin in though. So now I can't replace that pin hehe.

 The pins are not really designed to "break away" pre se. That is just the convenient by product of they way they are designed. The undercut or reverse taper is primarily designed to grab the rubber of your sole better and reduce the propensity to slide over the top of the pin. It's almost like a knife edge grabbing hold. This allows you to run your pins lower, with better grip, which increases your ground clearance on the under side and reduces pin breakage.

 "Undercut" means a cut at the base.... as in undercutting door casing to fit tile or wood floor underneath it. Under cutting a pin would mean putting a relief cut at the base to give the pin a predetermined point of failure. Reverse Taper is something totally different. Bad choice of words in the photo description. I see the reverse taper now that you said that. Reverse taper makes way more sense.

 They make another yoke for the demo that lets the eyelet sit 90degrees. So you can get a vivid air or alike in

 Nope they dont, atleast as far as i am aware and the eyelet has to sit as it does or it would be pretty hard to make a proper connection between the yoke and shock so taht the shock would actually be compressed and not just rotaed. A vivid air just has to have its eyelet, air can adjusted and some grinding then it bolts right on.

 Well they do, I've been to sram and held it in my hands. If you adjust the eyelet 90 degrees from the can then the air valve fowls on the frame. So as you say you have to file it.

 Thats why you have to take the air can apart and rotate the eyelet seperately, i have a 2011 demo with a vivid air, on the stock yoke. The filing is what has to be done to the eyelet to square it off so it slides in to the eyelet.

 Yes we did that and the eylet fowled on the shock cage. With the other yoke it didn't fowl. Well this is what SRAM Uk all said and its now on my friends bike..

 'unclip the strap....' COOL!!!

 The helmet is Eject Removal System compatible, www.ejectsafety.com/home.html, this allows the helmet to be removed quickly and easily when spine and/or neck injuries are suspected. This is the first MTB helmet with this compatibility.

 I thought the same, a brain child of a D3 and a 661 Evo (the very front bit)

 Crampons are thinner at their thinnest point but fatter elsewhere because of the spindle. This is a much better idea.

 Unless you are a monkey with hands for feet, the bottom of your shoe is convex, which begs for a concave pedal surface. The only true measure of a pedal thickness should be at the spindle. Crampons are 17 mm at the spindle which makes them very convex, the opposite shape of your shoe. Specialized pedals are 10 mm at the spindle with real bearings and a full strength spindle.

 "Crampons are 17 mm at the spindle which makes them very convex, the opposite shape of your shoe."

you mean the same shape as your shoe. what your shoe needs is the opposite shape, concave, which is why these are better

 Yes, that is what I was trying to say.

 have a look at the momentum bicycles flypaper pedals. theyre thinner than that.

 Crampons are 6mm thick in places but a lot thicker in the middle. These things are 10mm all the way across. Simples. Canfield do publish the actual thickness as 6mm-17mm and last I looked, 17mm is thicker than ten you idiot.

 Do the Flypapers actually exists? Anyone get a pair recently?

 they do in fact exist, they only come (and work with) a pair of gravity cranks. more info at their site:

momentumbicycle.com/Models.html

Never having tried them, I don't know much about them other than that.

 if you read what it says, it says some pedals say a thickness but are thicker in the middle, but these are 10mm all the way across. also, the flypapers are apparently very wierd to ride on, you sit a lot lower on the bike because theyre offset to the bottom of the oversized axle on them.

 unlike the point one podiums they don't have a bump on the pedal platform itself where the bearings are.

 I took a look at mine, and I noticed a very minor "bump". I surfed a little on Google and here's a link of a HR photo of the Point One Racing Podium pedals:
p.vitalmtb.com/photos/products/1838/photos/441/s1600_97137570_1270100644.jpg?1290195234

As you can see, that "bump" is nearly invisible, as is the long fading one on the inner side of the Specialized pedal. This is no argument I think.

 Its still there regardless, and seeing as they don't list the weight of the specialized pedal in the article, its kind of pointless to try and make judgement on it at this stage. Also, the point one podiums have a standard pin set up, so they aren't actually that similar...

 Ah come on... This is the only pedal comming close to the Podiums, so sure they are similar and there to compete with them.

 Swearmouth is totally right... they aren't very similar at all... These look like weak, overhyped, "awesome cause sam hill rides 'em" pedals whereas Point 1's are actually awesome pedals.

There is no "bump" in the middle on a Podium, even standing barefoot on the pedal it's not noticeable since the axle is always lower than the body. These things either have no full axle and will break because they aren't fully supported or they have a rediculously thin axle that's still not full length and they're still gonna break because they're not adequately supported. The pedal bodies won't shed mud as well as Podiums, there's fewer pins, and they're not nearly as good looking as Podiums. I know it's blasphamy to speak out against Specialized since they signed Hill but I'm entirely unimpressed with these pedals...

 Point ones are nice pedals, but I wanted to improve upon them. The spindle area on the Specialized pedals is 10 mm thick. Point ones are 13.5. Also, there is a hump on the inboard side of spindle that many people don't like standing on. Also, many people don't like standin directly on the spindle. The specialized design has a completely enclosed spindle and a concave design, which matches the shape of your shoe better than flat or convex pedal shapes. The Specialized pedals also use a full size spindle and bearings that will match or beat anything out there.

 I can fully appreciate you wanting to improve upon other designs but, at least in my opinion, you haven't. You're attempting to address issues where there are none... You claim "many people don't like" standing on the spindle or his supposed hump on the inboard side of the spindle. Unless you're riding barefoot, neither of those are noticeable at all and I have to call hype on this "many people" claim.

The bottom line on a pedal isn't how thin it is... particularly in this type of pedal. No one is gonna use this for 75k XC epics or 150k road rides so any additional power transfer by the decrease in overall profile is really just a matter of lab benefits moreso than real world. What's more important is the grip, durability, and mud sheding ability... all of which you've compromised in your design as compared to pedals like the Podiums or PreRunners. You have fewer pins, which are more likely to break rather than bend.. an axle that's thinner also but more likely to break... and you have a pedal body thats not as open and will clog more easily, even in these photos you can see several open sections already packing with dry dirt that, were it mud, would only be worse.

Nice effort but, seriously, stick to designing good bike frames and solid OEM contact points and quit trying to be all things to all people. Build yourselves some nice mid-range Kona WahWah style pedals if you want something to spec on your rides and leave the high end aftermarket pedals to the guys that are already at it.

 Um, it has a full Dh spindle that is LESS likely to break than most of the "thin" pedals on the market. It has a closed design so that it doesn't hook up on rocks and doesn't pack up with holes full of mud and fewer pins as that actually provides MORE traction than less. Seriously, have you ever ridden flat pedals?

The thinner pedal profile isn't about power transfer, it's about stability, which does matter. A lot.

 Right, so more pins = more traction in your world do they?

 Mr. leorybrown,

Please allow me to clarify:

1) The spindle inside the Specialized pedal is larger and stronger than the one in the pointone and the bearings carry a much higher load rating
2) There are no side pockets and the surfaces are much smoother - you will find they shed mud quite well. I can show you a picture of my pointones completely packed in every hole with mud
3) The benefit of a low pedal in DH is lower C.G. and higher ground clearance. Power transfer is not a consideration, as you pointed out.
4) You should also count the pin holes - more possible pin locations than the competition.
5) You may not feel the hump, but many do

 In this case, yes more pins would grip better. That's not to say 50 would be good but 9 is > than 8. You got really stuck on that one point of my statement for whatever reason but, in actuality, we're talking about 8 pins vs 9 pins and it's not going to be a huge difference regardless. My point wasn't to say that these aren't going to grip your foot. My point was to say that they're making claims about the axle being an issue and attempting to solve problems that don't exist while producing a product thats not as good as the current high-end offerings they're attempting to compete against. If they're targeting other OEM type pedals like the Wah Wahs then it's a great pedal and something I'd consider putting on a cheaper build up or one for a girlfriend or something like that... if they're targeting pedals like the PreRunner and Podium, both of which I own, then they don't stand a chance in hell of seeing my money as a consumer. Given the shape of the pedal, and apparently confirmed from czaroffsr's responses, they were targeting the Podiums as their competition.... As a consumer who has purchased that competing product, as well as others in that price range, and as someone represents their target market for this product... meaning someone with both the disposable income and financial freedom to spend hundreds on pedals just cause I like 'em, I am simply voicing my opinion that this prototype does not in any way represent a product that I would consider as an option the next time I'm looking to drop $$ on some new pedals.

If you're going to turn criticism from a consumer into some sort of bitchy little argument about pins and whatever else your panties are all wadded up about, maybe you should reconsider doing articles on prototypes and stick to just taking pictures. You damn sure aren't doing Specialized any favors by acting like a hurt little bitch because I don't think these are awesome as you apparently do.

 Before someone else makes an ass of themselves I'll explain why pin count matters. The amount of force a rider exerts on the pedal is constant no matter how many pins he has, however the force exerted upon each individual pin is decreased the more you have. consequently, having fewer pins placed correctly (typically on the front and rear edges of the pedal) can lead to more grip, as the pins dig deeper into the rubber. Similarly, thinner pins also dig deeper into the rubber due to force distribution.

And my comment above about the bump for the bearings is purely based on observation, I've never actually ridden point one podiums so I can't judge them other than what I can observe with my own eyes.

But seeing as no one who has commented has ridden these pedals, it would be pretty stupid to pass judgement on them or assume that there is hype surrounding them, right?

Its funny how people throw in stuff like "hurt little bitch" at the end of their comment, just because it validates what they've said...

 @Czar..

Can you clarify on the axle because, from what it appears to be in the picture, it's diminished thickness has required you to end the axle before the end of the pedal body in order, I'm asuming that's what the acces plate is for... to get at the far side bearing? I'm guessing this is what necessitates the larger inboard bearing which carries a higher load rating since it's going to handle larger loads? It would seem to me that these aren't going to lead to a stronger axle and are really just accomodations to make a 10mm spindle workable.

As far as mud clearance, I wasn't attempting to suggest that Podiums are immune only that these would seem to be worse... and the presence of additional holes for pin placement would seem to only exacerbate that by providing additional places for a clog to take hold while offering no larger openings for it to 'push through' when you step on.

You mention the additional ground clearance but, realistically, that's a minimal factor given that crank arms typically hit before most low profile pedals. I guess there is some benefit in terms of COG but again I think it's a matter of solving problems that aren't there. I don't think that modern high-end pedals offer enough disconnect that an even lower profile is really necessary.

 swearmouth - thanks for the intelligent and constructive comments

 @ Czar... Seriously? Passing out negative props for consumer criticism, LMAO.

@ swearmouth... I realize that the size and placement if the most important factor... exactly why I'd prefer more pointed pins like PreRunners as opposed to fewer inversely tapered pins like this.

 @leroybrown

The plate you are looking at houses twin needle bearings. They carry a very high load rating. The design elimnates all abrupt steps in the axle and internal drilling. The axle is solid. I know that isn't very clear, but most pedals have a cartridge bearing(s) on the end of the spindle, which requires either tapping the inside of the spindle or threading it on the outside. The inboard bearing mostly handles the thrust load.

I can see what you are saying about mud pushing through.

At the World Championship level, small differences add up. Remember that the World Champs 2009 and Juniors 2010 were won by hundreths of a second. Lowering the COG of your body (which is the heaviest part of the system) by ~5mm theoretically helps you corner faster. This is a way to lower your CG withouth lowering your BB or cranks or anything else. Ground clearnace comes into effect when you are corneirng. The ends of the pedal are the first thing to touch the ground when you are leaning over. The more parts of the bike you can keep off the ground the less speed you scrub.

 +props for constructive comments -props for meanspiritedness

 OK, I guess someone's a bit sensitive if they consider anything other than my response to britton's crying 'mean spirited' but sure, that's fair enough I suppose. In any case, while that inboard placement on the outer bearing is a bit genius, and while I do recognize the theoretical benefits of an even lower COG I still wouldn't consider these pedals, as they are in their current form, to be an option the next time I'm buying pedals. On a World Cup level they may offer some minimal time advantage to a top racer that equates to 1st over 2nd but the reality is that there are very few riders in the world on a level that their pedals are actually holding them back. As a consumer, there simply isn't anything about these pedals in terms of aesthetics or expected performance that would draw me to them.

 I can accept that. Perhaps you will have a chance to ride them in the future and I would enjoy your comments.

 @badbadleroybrown

You haven't ridden these pedals, you're judging based upon a short pb article and a couple of pictures. Czaroffsr is a bike designer and works for specialized. You are neither. Consumer criticism makes a difference once you have actually held and ridden the product, so, unless you are criticizing on aesthetics alone, your comments make no difference as Czaroffsr is the only one here who has delt with the pedals.

Czaroffsr responded well and addressed every one of your points logically and has been polite, and you're calling him a "hurt little bitch", you're 32, at least try to be mature. I don't know why you have some sort of personal vendetta against these pedals and czaroffsr, but at least be polite. If you don't like these pedals then just don't buy them! There is no need to trash talk them online.

@czaroffsr: These pedals look really well thought out and designed, and to have such a thin concave pedal with easily removable pins is awesome! Can't wait to try them!

 Go back and work on your reading comprehension before you open your mouth... I never had anything bad to say to czar, just criticism and questions back and forth about the product and he did respond completely professionally and actually improved my opinion of the product beyond what my initial thoughts on it were.

I have no issues with him or "vendetta" toward the pedals. I was simply letting him know that if I walk into the store looking to drop a couple hundred on pedals and these were sitting beside some Podiums and PreRunners, they've got no chance of getting my money... after his responses, I'd be open to trying 'em but I'd still give the edge to either of the others. If you're not willing to accept criticism from the people who are buying the products you intend to compete against, then you really shouldn't be showing prototype photos on the internet for all to see.

 Never said anything bad?

Immediately after one of his posts, you wrote this:

" If you're going to turn criticism from a consumer into some sort of bitchy little argument about pins and whatever else your panties are all wadded up about, maybe you should reconsider doing articles on prototypes and stick to just taking pictures. You damn sure aren't doing Specialized any favors by acting like a hurt little bitch because I don't think these are awesome as you apparently do."

Clearly thats constructive criticism right? And in no way a representative of a vendetta you have with him.

 Wow, two for two on reading comprehension... that wasn't @ czaroffsr... that was at the guy that jumped in crying, much like you are now, with the comment about "have you ever even ridden flat pedals?". Seriously... why is it that the czar is the only one who has any reasonable claim to offense over my opinion of the product but he managed to respond perfectly reasonably while everyone else is getting their feelings hurt about it???

 Where does it say that it wasn't him? you never mentioned who you were responding to, which allows for the assumption that your posts are a response to the poster above, especially when you are addressing him. And you are the only one in this discussion who seems to be offended by any of this...

 That you fail to understand who that was directed towards is exactly why I mock your reading comprehension. Were you intelligent enough to actually read and understand the words on the page, you'd have been able to recognize that the points being responded to were the points brought up by another poster. Instead, I'm here explaining what you should've learned when you were maybe twelve or so. Likewise, you apparently don't understand what 'offended' means. I've simply voiced a negative opinion about a prototype product and debated that opinion with someone with inside product knowledge whereas you and a few others have jumped in like super fanboy to the rescue in defense of Specialized over a produt that, like me, you've never ridden. I've taken no offense at all, in fact quite to the contrary I actually appreciate Czar's responses. You, on the other hand, have clearly taken offense since you're jumping into the conversation like I just called your girlfriend fat.

 You called him a hurt little bitch, that's not simply voicing a negative opinion, and your comment was directed at him, you suggested he was representing specialized badly, and who works for specialized? Oh thats right, he does! You're 32, a grown adult, now stop acting like a victim, making excuses, and pointing fingers. Quit whining, seriously. I'm done here haha.

 @badbadleroybrown

See, regardless as to whether you're right about who it was you called a hurt little bitch, you're still going around calling people bitches, retards, telling him he has a little brain, saying we're f*gs, and that I'm acting like you f*cked my sister. You've gotten to the point where your inability to refrain from being offensive means that even if you are correct, it doesn't matter, no one is going to take you seriously anymore. If you weren't so caught up in swearing at us, we might actually listen to you for once. You're the only one in this conversation who is doing this and its already killed your credibility.

And to respond to the idea that I'm a "super fanboy to the rescue in defense of Specialized", If you look at what I've purchased in the past 4 years, only 1 bike is a specialized (my allez sport road bike). As a general rule what I have purchased from specialized in the past has worked well, but that doesn't make me a "Fanboy" for saying so. When I bought my most recently bought my DH bike, I chose my morewood over several Specializeds, something a devout "Fanboy" wouldn't do.

Also, where did the claim that I'm all mad, and that in your perspective I'm "acting like I [you] just f*cked your [my] sister" come from? I'm certainly not worked up about these pedals, they're prototypes I learnt of the existence of the day before yesterday, and I'm not in the market for new pedals anyways. And its not as if you're doing it with your comments either, as stated above you're inability to say something without name calling or swearing is such that I can't really take you seriously either.

 That is simply the bearing housing that contains the twin needle bearings. It's a little different design from most traditional pedals that allows it to be so thin yet still full strength.

 ...Weighs 100g less but also looks ugly as sin.

 ^^^^ thats ugly as shit though. the specialized one looks like a d3. and d3s are the sexiest helmet out there, IMO

 You must have been a Mojo's this weekend?!

 I was. My wife and I are both on the team. Those bikes overall are super sweet, and the pedals were the first thing I noticed. Well that, and Sams and troy's bikes looked way too clean. They must not ride much. ha.

 They just have a killer mechanic who takes real good care of them.

 Where does it say those are Shimano pedals? They're just prototype Specialized pedals.

 I must have read Shimano.

 Shimano/Specialized... either way, I agree... give me some Podiums or PreRunners over these any day!

 reminds me a 661 comp

 They didn't.

 alright thats good but you do see he similarity right?

 sure, I can see why people might make the comparison