Industry Nine Expands S-Series Wheel Range

 in DT swiss we trust

 keep hearing this but I'm 1.1k miles on mine with no issues

 @SATN-XC: Same, I'm sitting at 3k+ miles with no issues, replaced the bearings on my last service, but I wasn't having any issues and I only grease them a couple times a year...

 @SATN-XC: Same here. I’m just wondering what these people do to their wheels. I also accept that I just might not be rad enough.

 @souknaysh: amen

 @souknaysh: pretty sure you meant to type 'Hope' right there.

 @recneps57: I got 2 years out of my original bearings then only 6 months out of my last set and they developed visual play. I didn’t do the first replacement so I’m hoping those were just damaged on installation otherwise I have a pinner axle tube to try next

 @ThatOneGuyInTheComments: I Hope so too.

 @loosegoat: If they didn't replace the axle then the bearings and axle should be replaced in one go

 Onyx, anyone? two wheelsets so far that are so perfect it's hard to describe... And I neglect them sadly and just ride them. I haven't even greased my older set yet and they're entering their third season.

 @therealmancub: I was wondering about that, it definitely wasn’t replaced the first time and I was impatient to get my bike back rolling when I did it so it’s still the original axle. Is it just the surface at the seat gets worn down?

 @nickgarofalo: I thought that until I blew open a Vesper hub shell recently.

 Ugh. I want to support American made, but I've had too many issues with Hydra's and 1/1's the past few years.

 @garrettstories: dang, I broke 2 dt swiss hubs and went to 1/1 and have had no issues yet.

 @SATN-XC: 1.1k miles is absolutely nothing. I'm at 12500 km on my dt swiss hubs with enduro use and they still work pretty well. Only changed the bearings and serviced the hub

 let me down twice as well unfortunately... onyx and never look back

 @nickgarofalo: third season on my onyx hubs, they're undefeatable. did rear hub bearings once early last year. that's it. woo!

 I want to know if the people with good Hydras run them loaded with grease, and if the people with cooked bearings are running them "loud." Maybe it's a rider weight situation. Or powerful legs situation?

Onyx is great for lighter riders; I've heard first hand accounts from 2 heavier guys who blew the Vespers up right away.

 @dorkbike: CK's are solid. I don't know why they would down vote it.

 @jubs17: I run mine loud, but they aren’t as loud as the old Torch hubs. I bought mine from a good wheel builder, so maybe he did it up right. I’m neither heavy nor light — 175-180 in riding gear. I couldn’t tell you. Maybe I’m just a smooth rider. But this is the third season on these hubs and they haven’t had an issue.

 @likeittacky: b/c they don't know them

 @dorkbike: Good point. CK is the gold standard.

 You need to double check your through axle before riding. This is the issue 99% of the time.

 @jubs17: I was thinking I put too much oil in, I’m also north of 200 kitted (that’s 90 for the poutine neighbors) and do a number on rear wheels so that’s more likely it

 @jubs17: there are two kinds of "bad" Hydras that I know of.

Some people have trouble with them eating bearings - I don't, but my riding conditions are pretty kind to bicycles.

Some people break hub axles - I broke two last season on my enduro but their latest redesign has held up well for the past month so fingers crossed. I am 185lbs and faster than the average weekend rider but still in the thick of the bell curve I think.

And then I guess #3 there are a few Shreks out there who manage to break the ring gear putting out 1000w but I've not seen much of that.

I'm not sure the choice of oil vs grease in the ring gear does much to affect the sealed bearings in the hub. I use the grease they recommend personally because I like to keep them relatively quiet.

The bearings are Enduro brand and I9 are certainly not the only hubs using them.

The hub axle issue isn't limited to I9 though it does seem to happen more often based on internet forum browsing. Heavier riders, faster riders, maybe certain frames flex more who knows. Many popular hubs are using a similar 15mm aluminum hub axle (ie 1.5mm wall thickness over a 12mm rear axle). There is an aftermarket steel axle available for Hydras and they'll still be lighter than Onyx classics with it.

Axles and bearings are a relatively minor annoyance, the hubs are easy to service and I9 are good to deal with. I suppose if I had to replace bearings several times per season I'd be a bit miffed but as part of the annual rebuild - whatever, they're much easier than linkage bearings. I'm hoping I9 nailed it with this latest axle design. If I started breaking ring gears and had to rebuild wheels regularly I'd likely switch to a different rear hub but again that seems rare.

Overall Hydras are pretty good hubs IMO. Most people don't break em. You can make them loud or nearly silent. They are easy to work on. They have good customer service (my warranty axles arrived within a week of my sending an email, with new bearings I didn't ask for/need). They are made in the US if you care. I think most hubs have their downsides.

 Not my personal experience, but was chatting to a guy in the queue at an enduro race yesterday, and he'd broken his i9 hub on practice day. Luckily he had a spare wheel with him, or that would have been weekend over. Certainly not on my shopping list now

 what happened? i have a friend that is 3 years on the same set of enduro s, doesn't put air in the tyres as it's lazy af and always forgets, never cleans the bike and everything runs smoothly, i have a set of 305 and the hubs have been amazing so far, no issue here, same goes for every other hydra owner i personally know...

 @jdejace: broken I9 hub axles, twice. Same spot on 2 different hubs, right where the freehub meets the bearing. These are machined axles, apparently not well designed IMO.

Bottom line, I’ve had to order 2 axles into Canada now. The cheapest shipping option cost more than the axle.. throw in the exchange, duty and courier fees and they were $130 each, for what I would call a design flaw.

This issue - along with the obnoxiously loud sound - are the main reasons I’ll never buy an I9 hub again.

 @g123: I've broken one off where the freehub meets the bearing, another one interestingly the little lip behind the drive side bearing broke but the rest of the axle remained intact. I thought I had a bearing issue, they felt gritty until I removed them. The drive side bearing was just grinding against the broken part.

The latest axle design with a washer behind the bearing that they sent me in late Fall 2022 is ok for me so far (knock on wood).

The Dumonde grease I9 recs takes care of the sound if you prefer a quiet hub.

In Canada it seems like buying the steel axle from Pinner is the move if you're paying that much for replacements. Mine were free including shipping. Did you reach out to them for warranty? I have a hard time believing they'd make you pay for the axle even if they wouldn't cover international shipping.

 @souknaysh: Even DT can fail. I had a brand new dt350 and I ended up walking 2km back to my vehicle. DT repair said it wasn't too much grease (often a culprit, even straight from the factory) but instead just a faulty ratchet (manf error). Only an 18T at that. Needed a new axle (gouged to hell) and ratchet.

 @g123: steel axle from Pinner Machine Works in Whistler. I broke 5 hydra axles and swore off i9 then tried this and it’s super solid. I think the weak ass axle is why the bearings go also.

 @jubs17: I just use dumond tech freehub oil, personally prefer my Hydra to run a little loud. I weigh about 170 with gear, and I put out a little above average power. I think some people might just get bad luck of the draw on their hubs. I'm on a stumpy evo w/the standard axle that came with the frame.

 @souknaysh: This is the way.

 @dorkbike: Kings are inexpensive. My main trail bike has a King rear that is near twenty years old. Upgraded to 142 years back. It won’t die, runs like new. I have a few other King rears. Almost all are over ten years old and running like new. Price per mile… they are inexpensive. Performance, top tier.

 @SATN-XC:
same! I love my Hydras. Two big seasons on them with no problems at all!

 @jdejace: that’s great info, thank you. I do use the dumonde hub grease which quiets the hub for a few rides, but back to loud fairly quickly.

I didn’t know a steel axle was a possibility, I would definitely go this route next time. Hub axles are something I haven’t even had to consider as a failure point for many years. I did ask about warranty the first time, and the response was that I could purchase one from their web store. The second time I didn’t bother, but felt it was either pay through the nose for an axle or just have a useless rear wheel. Paying the axle price seemed like the only option.

Steel next time.. but honestly my experiences with Swiss hubs has been so positive I think it’s best to stick with what works.

 @likeittacky: Every rear King hub I have ever seen (including the three I have owned) has had lateral play. I'm talking something on the order of thirty hubs. With the three hubs I owned, I always had to choose between eliminating lateral play but having enough drag that the chain sagged badly when I backpedaled, or having no chain sag when backpedaling but being annoyed by lateral play. That was true in 1999 when I bought my first King hub and it's true now.
I also remember my King ISO rear from way back when requiring an imperial Allen wrench, and a ball wrench no less because the bolt was recessed well inside the interface for the rotor. Looks like they've switched to 2.5mm since then, but it also looks like the bolt is in the same position.

 @Insectoid: But King was Kong back in the day; Nothing compared. Having design issues is not necessarily a bad thing as everyone is lead to believe. Hence, that is what only directs perfection and simplicity in design.

 Grease them with Dumonde Tech hub grease, they won’t make a sound.

 Have you perhaps tried NOT spinning the wheel? #idiot

 @h20-50: Agreed. That or the older Chris King Ring Drive lube.

 better than a trail bell....seriously

 You say this like it’s a bad thing.

 Your not riding fast enough to beat the sound

 #statflex

 @SATN-XC: perhaps.lol. I ride a ton, sure.....but I absolutely f*cking BEAT on my bikes, and basically do no maintenance until something fails.

this was more of a testimonial to the sheer robustness of a hub I thought would be fragile AF.

 It would be nice if it would just.. you know.. not break?

 @Mtbdialed: What rims?

 @Roost66: Nobl TR37s.....

 @lolodialsbikes: everything breaks eventually. you can't fault a company for the physical limitations of metal. lol


not of you want to pay less than $5000 for a hub, I guess.

 @Mtbdialed: I got a set of enduro-s wheels and the rims and spokes are utter trash.

Hopefully spoke issue was fixed with J-bends.

 @Mtbdialed: can fault them for poor axle design, have seen tons of broken hydra axles in my years working at a bike shop. and that's in addition to pretty poor bearing life as well. It's not that they're junk, but for the money there are much more reliable products out there

 @Mtbdialed: Speaking of physical limitations of metal, they are now making stainless axles to replace their ever-breaking aluminum ones. This is without mentioning endless bearing failures, they are simply incapable to withstand rough riding in muddy conditions here on the PNW. Good for the Southwest dry gravel paths though I'm sure!

 @KolaPanda: they don't make the bearings. My experience with them was the bearings lasted for ages until you rode in wet climates, then they go to shit. Which is pretty universal, and not a hub issue as much as a, you can't stop water, just slow it down a bit. and yes, their design had a fault, that they have seemingly rectified with an updated design and material change.

again, What more would you like them to do, beyond address issues as they appear? I mean, plenty of beloved companies out there made absolute trash(Which Hydras clearly never were), never fixed it and didn't get this level of dragging....

 @Mtbdialed: it's in vogue to hate on brands for issues like improper installation or maintenance. Also with covid downtime people put way more miles or hours on their bikes and are experiencing more issues. This group will get frustrated and either move on from the sport or learn that parts fail or wear out in MTB. For now we just have to deal with them sitting on pinkbike complaining about where Levy is and how they broke a bearing (wear part) on a hub.

 @Mtbdialed: I'd have wanted the company to do more thorough R&D on their product instead of leaving the testing up to the consumers who have to deal with the downtime. Different companies have different philosophies on when a product is ready for market.

and yes I agree with your point on bearings, however it's not reasonable to ignore that hub manufacturers all make choices on which size bearings to use, how many are in place, and what sort of loads they expect the hub to take.

I think the reason other companies trash products haven't been dragged down this hard is the majority of the marketing put out by i9 places it as one of the best products on the market, and the vocal minority comes from those who believed in that only to have a poor user experience. Nobody is bitchin too hard when they snap an axle on their cup and cone deore, it's somewhat expected to have a finite life when products are cheap

 @lolodialsbikes: "Southwest dry gravel paths" hahaha. The elitism of PNW riders is hysterical. I took a break from Arizona to ride trails peripheral to Seattle last year and, in terms of difficult trail features, it was a vacation.

 @rbruhns: I'm sorry to say you rode the wrong trails LOL

 Until you strip the drive ring and destroy a couple pawls on the Pro4.... Hopefully the Pro5 ebike version holds up better!

 Hope Hubs are good, but aren’t close to I9. I’ve used both.

 @TheR: I've got both, plus 1/1 and can't complain about any. The hydra are notably better on the super techy climbs, but that's just the Powet Over Ethernet.

 @icanreachit: Hope hubs are perfectly acceptable, but just kind of unremarkable. You’re right though, can’t really complain. The I9s roll better, the POE makes them feel snappier and more responsive.

 @TheR: In what regard do you tjink they are better ? I currently have 2 sets of Pro4, and even an old pair of Pro2. I can still easily find bearings for my Pro2, and change if some play comes, then ready to roll for another couple of years. What would justify to spend more for another hub ?

 @jpnbrider: I explained above. They just perform better. I9 are also easy to service.

 @jpnbrider: The other detail I forgot — their straight pull design with their system spokes make a stiff, solid, damn near indestructible wheel.

 @jpnbrider: And I9 hubs are lighter, too, by about 60 grams, though I’ll admit it’s a pretty negligible weight.

 @TheR: ok i got your point, depends more on what matters for each other. Did you already build a Straightpull wheel ? I just hate it how the spokes rotate with the nipple, I won’t let you this as a pro

 @jpnbrider: Yes, I had a straight pull set of Enduro 305 (alloy). Loved those wheels. If you don’t like the straight pull, I get it. But I didn’t have many problems with them. They never went out of true. The spokes are expensive to replace, though, and proprietary.

 "We Are One" makes I9's carbon hoops

 @SATN-XC: I think he's emphasizing on the trash rims.

 @SATN-XC: From what I remember when I purchased my Enduro S Carbon Hydra wheels, WAO doesn’t make the “S” series hoops for I9. Pretty sure Reynolds makes those for I9.

 @SATN-XC: just for the system wheels, the S series rims are Reynolds

 You're missing the the point of carbon wheels for the most part is all you do is look at grams. Durability, compliance, design flexibility, etc. all give carbon the win over AL.

 @numbnuts1977: Carbon rims have worse compliance than aluminium. There's a reason every new rim press release touts how they feel just like aluminium rims.

 @spicysparkes: Carbon rims have all kinds of different compliances available. My G23 ENVE gravel wheels are more compliant than the AG25 i9 alu wheels they replaced. My WAO carbon enduro wheels feel so much better than the Alu 305 enduros they replaced.

 Blasphemy, color adds 10 hp…or is that a different thread?

 @Cowboy13: A bike with red color- coordinated components can do a one-minute sprint in 59 seconds.

 @ThatOneGuyInTheComments: purple... is that why it takes me 1:10?

 look, fashion isn't going anywhere...

do you need that watch to match your shoes/rings/necklace? THEN PUT THAT CC AWAY!


don't hate on people that have different means and priorities to you. that's called gatekeeping and it's a sad look, son.

 @MillerReid: sure. then don't do it. think what you want about those that do. but most importantly, be a good motherf*cker and......keep it to yourself.


shitting on other people's joy, is serious small dick energy.

 @Mtbdialed: sure, fair, but its not as sad as the biking community's abhorrent level of consumerism, which is the point im making

 @two-plank: setting aside your personal feelings about people buying things they want with the money they earned from their labor(this is hard, as I think it pollutes your entire thinking), you should look around at other hobbies and interest, before you toss the word Abhorrent around about some sparkly hubs....lmao

 @two-plank: its a hobby. If you want to do good for the world quit playing on a bike. You could always go for a hike and pick up trash, then you don't have to participate in "abhorrent consumerism" at any level. This will get you one step closer to nirvana.

 @Mtbdialed: i communicated the opposite of this with my original comment, but i play a part in that consumerism too. doesnt mean it cant be acknowledged as bad. should've used 'we' and 'our' instead of 'you' and 'your' i guess

 Damn too late I got a set of custom 305s