ND Tuned's New Coil Shock - Eurobike 2023

 Dvo did that too lol

 rockshox select shock doesn't have any compression controls at all and it works pretty okay

 @Dogl0rd: "pretty okay" is a dogshit qualifier for something costing a decent fraction of a thousand bucks.

 Yeah, but if i recall correctly they will also offer the first two services/re-tunes for free

 Everyone should have their shock tuned for their riding style, bike and weight anyway so its good to see a company acknowledge this in my opinion

 It looks like it has a fancy valve (so sophisticated high speed damping) but it seems like it does not have any check valve on low speed rebound orifice thus low speed rebound affects low speed compression thus there is no real need for compression adjuster here. So effectively you have one slow speed adjuster and separate high speed stacks. But those diagrams of internals are pretty low on resolution, so this is just a guess.

 @c-radicallis: send the shock (3-5 business days, paid shipping), will adjust for free depending on their work load (2-5 business days), then paid shipping back (2-5 business days), plus few weekends and here you go - 2-4 week without a shock.

 @samdaman1: This is kind-of what EXT do, but you still have a usable range of adjustment around the custom tune.

 Looking at their site they have pistons which also serve some part of low speed. So most probably the rebound knob sets both very low speed rebound and compression, but the transition from low to high speed is diffefent for rebound and compression and tunable via shimstack. It looks very sensible and might actually work pretty well. Also the lack of piggyback is a nice feature, just looks at the new Meta AM, it looks like it can barely take a small fidlock bottle, but it would take any bottle with an inline shock like this.

 @chakaping:
Push does this too but from what I've heard they don't believe you if you say you ride hard.

 @lkubica: if i'm getting this straight, it's both rebound and compression on a single piston. uhhhh.

 @lkubica: lack of a piggyback isn't a feature, it's a trade-off. Performance and tuning traded for weight and packaging.

 @baca262: like most inline monotube shocks

 @justinfoil: It is if it works the same. This IFP looks like a normal IFP, whereas CCDB Inline bladder looks like it has 1cm^3 of volume. I think is the lack of base valve which makes it possible, not too small IFP.
Anyway, untill it's tested it is very hard to judge this design.

 @justinfoil: most inline monotubes don't cost this much

 @CobyCobie: Because most people vastly overestimate their own ability.

Source: having worked for a skills coaching company

 @CobyCobie: mine didn’t believe that I don’t race at first. They all have their niche and the preconceived notions that come with it.

 @lkubica: base valve or not, the IFP or bladder is only there to take up oil displaced by the shaft moving into the damper body. DB inline bladder being small only serves to make it more progressive in the spring force that it adds to the shock. It's still not a feature, since the full DB's with piggyback contain more oil which provides more consistency throughout a run. The presence of a base valve or not has nothing to do with using an IFP or bladder, except that the IFP takes up more space thus leaving less space for another set of valves anywhere. Yet again, the IFP presence in the body and not a piggyback is not a feature, it's a trade-off. This is literally one of the simplest possible designs. Which is not bad, it's just nothing special.

 @justinfoil:
Yes, you are right ... Until you Ride with it you never know! ........

 @getonyourbike:

I believe that. My very intermediate level buddy was just telling me that he took an intermediate level class and they were riding greens and bypassing the features!

My not-so-intermediate level buddy is not very picky at all and had to send his shock back to Push twice to un-mush it. EXT was able to get it right for him the first time...

 @justinfoil:
The bikes industry's client got used to being pushed to the limit for the quality they get for their money.

 tbf, most people have no idea what they are doing when they 'tune' their bikes.

 And since rebound damping is pretty much directly linked to spring rate (and they're going to know what coil you have and preload isn't really adjusted very often), while compression damping is much more up to preference and conditions, maybe they got the adjustments backwards...

 I talked to the CEO a few weeks ago and he told me there might be a adjustable version coming later down the line.

 @c-radicallis: should have come out immediately.

 Seems legit. Just ride the same trail, in the same conditions. Duh

 Make sure tou don’t spend too much time on the couch while waiting for hour bike. You may gain some weight and off your setup goes.

 @rideordie35: But the people spending on a niche shock like this are much more likely to understand what the clickers do.

 @rideordie35: Flip side: when most people who don't know what they're doing when they tune their bikes, if they make an adjustment in the wrong direction its a pretty simple "hmm, this doesn't feel as good, why don't I go the other direction and see what happens."

I'm not knocking on this shock to be clear - I think there's definitely a niche for it and I like the idea kind of.

But there are a lot of really good shocks out there that can be tuned pretty well internally by the end user if they know what they're doing, and the option to send them for custom tuning is on the table as well. Giving up any external adjustments for the sake of saving 100g seems like a tough sell to me.

 @nickfranko: They're just following SRAM's example of releasing a product and then offering an "upgrade" later to (maybe) make it work like it should.

 @justinfoil: Not sure about that. To an extent yes, HSR is directly linked to spring rate, but I'd say preferences for LSR feel vary wildly. I'd certainly give up compression adjustment before I'd give up rebound. I guess this is the problem with lack of adjustments in general though, very few riders will get exactly the feel they want and it's a PITA sending shocks off for retunes.

 @bash80: LSR is of course a preference, just like everything (including HSR), but changing LSR on a whim without changing the spring at all is quite rare. I haven't touched either rebound knob under the cap ony 36 GRIP2 since getting it dialed, except when I tried a little more pressure (didn't like, went back to 7ish psi less than Fox's reco, and 1-2 clicks more open than the chart said on each rebound for that pressure).

Many many more riders are going to tweak LSC to meet conditions: little more for steeps and speed, little less for low traction or just being tired and going slow. It shows in how many low-to mid-range dampers have LSC on a huge dial that is easy to sweep through changes.

I mean, climb switches are literally just increasing LSC (and LSR on Cane Creek shocks), often to infinity for "lock-out" or "pedal" modes, and then relying on the HSC to act as a blow-off.

So yeah, LSC is changed way more often by way more riders.

 How is the EXT better than the CC IL? What are the benefits you found when switching, apart from wright?

 I dunno, my local shop does full cane creek service, and does it well. I love my storia as well, but I don’t think there’s much to pick between them other than how Gucci the ext looks. The hydraulic bottom out is the only reason I would go with the ext over the CC, and is the only reason I did. I’m coming up on my service with ext and depending on how it goes will depend on whether it stays or becomes a DB.

 If you really care about weight chucking an ext coil spring on any shock shaves quite a bit.

 @ozhuck2flat: I've had both and I'd say the EXT has greater sensitivity and composure, especially in low grip situations and going very fast.

 216 with a 375lb spring is 772g. 216 DB IL coil is 295g plus a spring (400lb VALT is 382g) = 677g.

 @ozhuck2flat: I have a very linear frame, 150mm of rear travel, the perfect test bed to feel out the difference between coil shocks.

Thanks to the twin tube, you can dial in tons of support from the Cane Creek without it feeling locked out. There are two things you want from your rear shock- Geometry preservation and grip. These are opposed to each other. Independent high and low speed adjustments allows you to balance the CC very well between support in g-outs, using only the appropriate amount of travel for mid to big hits, while still having that glorious suppleness & grip that only a coil can provide. I did end up putting a progressive coil on the CC, which makes bottom-outs hard to feel. The progressive coils only ramp up the last 15% of your travel, so you still need a good compression setting for mid stroke support. But the progressive coil is very effective at smoothing out hucks to flats.

The EXT does all this the same, but to a higher level of refinement. For my linear frame, the hydraulic bottom out is superior to a progressive coil. I never felt a harsh bottom out with it, but its possible on a big hit with the progressive coil. The rebound after full bottom out on the EXT also felts more controlled. Its hard to quantify, but after a large compression the rear returns to full travel in a more controlled manner, with less bucking that can pitch your weight forward. Its not that the rebound is slower, back-to-back I tried slowing down the CC rebound but then it would get bogged down. The EXT also transitions from low speed to high speed compression smoother- push down to pump a turn and theres more support pushing back, but hit a rock or root in that turn and the shims open up and allow the wheel to move out of the way, then return back to higher in your travel to keep pushing on it through the rest of the pump, or roller, or berm. Its a beautiful sensation- you have this firm, pillowy softness that holds you up, but gives way for all the chatter under you.

I do love the Cane Creek climb switch- it firms up both compression and rebound, when others mostly just firm up rebound. It works better than the EXT climb switch, which just feels like a weak lockout. That being said, in the open position, the EXT does have noticeably less pedal bob than the Cane Creek in the open position, so with the EXT on I don't even bother with it, while with the Cane Creek theres just enough I find myself flipping it on.

Like I said, both shocks are excellent, and when adjusted correctly (hard to do) the Cane Creek is as good or better than pretty much anything else but the EXT. I'd say its 90% as good. I love them both.

 @ozhuck2flat: most bikes that are not a DH bike don’t have quite enough rising rate at the end of compression for a coil. Progressive springs suck so hydraulic bottom out is a massive improvement. Push, EXT and RS all have it so theres a shock for everyones budget.

 @hamncheez: Pretty funny that someone still downvoted your sincere and experienced reply!

 You don't need x-ray eyes, they showed us enough to show that it's just a normal monotube. Perhaps they're saying hybrid because they might be the only ones doing inline coil with an IFP? I think everyone else has a bladder on their inlines.

 @justinfoil:
Rock shox has one. The deluxe coil select.

 Maybe it means you can use it on a regular bike or an e-bike.

 @noapathy: that's true for every shock ever

 @emptybox: ah yes, so they do. So who knows what hybrid means...?

 @justinfoil: Whoosh!

 Pretty sure they're calling it hybrid because the IFP air chamber is larger than other shocks, and they're counting that as a second spring in addition to the coil. Problem is, all IFP (and bladder) shocks have the same secondary air spring, and they've already been used as a tuning option by those in the know. So basically, most shocks are already hybrids.

 This ^, and since I already ride a CC IL that has LSC, LSR, HSC, HSR, and a lightweight coil ... 'm not seeing the benefits. Like one guy wrote, the EXT is the way to go if you have the cash.

 Sarcasm noted but have you ever placed your hand near a ultra4 or desert truck/buggy shock after some romping? Absolutely scorching. Mo’ fluid is Mo’ better. Certainly not saying this shock won’t handle heat, just providing context

 @Kiowa008: For sure! I wasn't being entirely sarcastic. Heat dissipation is king.

 This is one of the most basic damper designs and has been around for quite a while.