To The Point - UST Rims and Tires

Oct 8, 2013 at 2:00
Oct 8, 2013
by Mike Levy  
 
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Launched by Mavic, Michelin, and Hutchinson in 1999, the tubeless UST rim and tire system has been used by World Cup racers and weekend riders alike for many years, but the topic is still one that can cause some head scratching from even the most technically savvy of mountain bikers. This is compounded by the large number of "tubeless compatible" tires and rims out there that, while not being UST certified, can also work quite well. With a list of questions in hand, we reached out to Mavic's Zack Vestal for an explanation of how the UST design works, and to clarify some rim and tire compatibility reservations that we had.


What does UST stand for, and what exactly is it?

UST stands for Universal Standard Tubeless, and it refers to a very specific, two-part
system consisting of the rim and the tire. The UST system was developed and introduced
in 1999 as a partnership between Mavic, Michelin, and Hutchinson. On the rim side,
Mavic contributed technical expertise as to the rim shape and keeping the tire bed
airtight. On the tire side, Michelin and Hutchinson developed tires with airtight casings
and beads that would lock into the rim, not unlike a tubeless car or motorcycle tire.

There is a very specific shape and dimension to a UST rim's bead hook (the lipped
inner edge or hook of the rim sidewall that the tire bead locks into
), with it having
a square shape rather than rounded profile of a standard rim. Also, there is a “hump” on
the edge of the rim bed that helps lock the tire bead into place. The dimensions of the
bead hook, including its height, diameter, plus the width and shape of the “hump,” are
very closely controlled. The last attribute of a UST rim is that it must be airtight, which
means that any spoke holes must be fully sealed with tape or plastic, or the rim bed is
left intact and not drilled at all. The UST rim shape (particularly the shape of the
bead hook and hump
) is patented by Mavic, and Mavic licenses the shape to other
companies, for a fee. An independent lab grants technical approval for any products
from other companies to wear the UST logo.

Mavic UST


And what makes a tire UST-specific?

On the tire side, a UST tire must have a bead that is shaped correspondingly to the
UST bead hook - it’s more square than round, and it has a small flap on the inner edge
to help create an airtight seal. This flap also helps the tire gain an airtight seal against
the rim when it’s first being inflated. The dimension and mechanical characteristics of
a proper UST tire bead are critical. Any variance in diameter or profile, or the bead stretching
under inflation pressure, can cause the tire to not fit correctly and therefore not remain
airtight. Finally, a proper UST tire casing is airtight and holds air over time. Again, an
independent lab certifies the proper bead dimensions, allowable bead stretch, sealing
capability, security of the bead lock even when deflated, and ability to retain air over
time. However, a company that wants to make a UST tire doesn’t have to pay a license
fee. It just has to make the tire such that it passes the certification test.

Note that on the tire side, “UST-ready” systems are ubiquitous. A UST-ready tire has a proper
UST certified bead, but it requires sealant in order to make the casing airtight. Several brands
of tires have sought and achieved UST certification with the use of sealant. Of course the new
Mavic Charge, Roam, and Roam XL tires fall into this category, as do the TCS tires from WTB.



How does a UST system create a seal?

The number one aspect of the UST system is the bead hook interface. The precise tolerance between the rim and tire bead, plus its specific square shape, help the tire bead lock securely into place on the rim. Furthermore, the tire bead is controlled for how much it can stretch when inflated, which is very little to not at all. These characteristics create a very safe and secure bead lock. The tire tends to stay in place even when deflated. And, the tire can be run at different pressures with no fear of the tire exploding or rolling off the rim. Of course the valve is a critical component of the system as well - it must be properly mounted in the rim to maintain an airtight seal.



Do non-UST tires work on UST rims and vice versa?

Non-UST tires will work on UST rims, but they don’t have the security of the bead
locking securely into the rim channel (bead hooks). And the significant discrepancy
in the shape of the bead will cause trouble with air retention. The tire bead just won’t seal
very well against the rim. Finally, non-UST tires are not as tightly controlled for the tire bead
diameter and stretch, and this means that a loose fitting tire could be more prone to rolling
off the rim or exploding off of it under high inflation pressure.

A person would have more success putting a UST tire on a non-UST rim, but again, the
lack of precision between the tire bead and the rim bead hook would cause sealing problems.
And, a non-UST rim doesn’t have an airtight tire bed. Also, you’d have to find a way to seal
the spoke holes on the rim bed before you could set it up tubeless.

The systems from Stans and other tubeless conversions do work, in that they allow you to
create a mostly airtight tire and rim interface. But these systems don’t have nearly as secure
of a bead lock between the tire and rim. This can lead to inconsistent or at worst, unsafe tire
security on the rim. Of course, this all looks like promotion of Mavic’s patented system, but
other rim and tire manufacturers have clearly tested and seen the benefits of going with proper
UST certification. I’ve spoken to a tire product manager at WTB who was very candid about
the unsafe conditions they found in some “tubeless” systems, and it’s why they created their
rims and tires with proper UST certification. The same is true for other brands like Easton
and ENVE.


Views: 143,885    Faves: 31    Comments: 15



What are the advantages to running a UST setup compared to a conversion with sealant and rim tape, especially considering that conversions often weigh less?

The advantages of a proper UST are several. For starters, the safety and security of
a properly matched tire and rim can’t be beat. The interlocking tire bead and rim bead hook
are a big deal. Airtight UST rims don’t have a weight penalty compared to non-UST rims. On
the tire side, UST-ready tires weigh the same as other tires, but they have a bead that locks
securely into the rim bead hook. Regarding inflation, it should be just as easy to inflate a properly
matched system as it is to inflate a conversion system. True, sometimes the conversion
systems increase the outer diameter of the rim bed and hold the tire bead tighter against the rim
for easier inflation, but the same condition can be created with a UST tire and rim by using a
tire lever to pull the tire bead partially onto the “hump” in the UST rim bed. This instantly creates
a seal and facilitates easy inflation of a UST tire with a normal hand pump.


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117 Comments

  • + 109
 That vid gets my vote for VOD
  • + 9
 Yop, made me smarter in every way.
  • + 20
 I saw your comments so I went back up to the video to find it was 2 seconds long.... tricked me lol
  • + 5
 I just watched that video 10 times. So good! MacAskill has got nothing on that video.
  • + 3
 Watching the video for the several times at least I would like to have some extra half a second of the result to watch staying still and steady before the box of recommendations emerging so suddenly.
  • + 8
 "not unlike a tubeless car or motorcycle tire."

The tires, maybe, but the rims are completely unlike a car or motorcycle system as there are no bead hooks on car or motorcycle rims. The new Derby carbon rims look interesting as they have a UST style "hump", but are hookless. Specialized also have hookless rims for 2014.

If only Mavic would make a rim or wheel with a 25mm inner width... *sigh*
  • + 7
 That is always an ultimate point for me in "wheel debate". Forget the diameter, make the rims wider. It is 2013 Mavic and you must release rims that are 25 and 28mm wide on the inside, not the outside. At the same time no bead hook sounds sketchy...
  • + 1
 I agree about hookless rims sounding sketchy, but there seems to be some solid research supporting it. I would seriously buy a Crossmax SX wheel set in a heartbeat if the inner diameter was 28mm. You should check out the Derby rims. 40mm inner diameter!!!
  • + 2
 I am all for actualy meaningful resizing things in wheels department. The More research, the better! If hookless proves to be better, like it happens with rim width, then yea, I buy two Big Grin
  • + 2
 Specialized went to their own tire designers with the concern of how to make it easier to manufacture the carbon rims. The tire guys straight up said that you don't need hooks and couldn't for the life of them make a guess as to why manufactures still do it. Bikes are basically the largest body that still does it for no reason. This UST stuff though is bead locking on a whole overbuilt level.
  • + 1
 36mm inner , 40 external. I have them and love them. A bead hook is entirely unnecessary. Tires don't burp because the bead lifts up, they burp when the bead is pushed inward. The Derby's have a shoulder that keeps the bead securely against the rim wall. It's harder to unseat my tire off of these than off of a Stan's FlowEx, Arch , WTB i23, or Mavic 819. All of which I've used.
  • + 1
 Should be 34 internal width. The rim walls are 3mm thick
  • + 2
 Hookless rims were normal fare decades ago, hell tubular rims have have no rim sidewalls at all supporting the tire and its some glue and air pressure alone that holds them tight. Clincher rims only acquired the bead hooks with the move to running narrow high-pressure road tires on them (in place of tubulars) among professional and amateur racers alike. For the pressures encountered and used in mtb tires, the hook really doesn't do much if the tire fits the bead seat diameter spec properly.
  • + 0
 The issue is that few decades ago people were not loading their tyres so much from sides, like when riding berms at high speeds, pump tracks alone are hard enough on rim/tyre interface. They were also not riding lightweight tubeless ready tyres. The question is whether hookless rim can hold a light casing tyre, run tubeless in such situation. Maybe it can as you say, maybe hook does not help much indeed, I'm just wondering. It would be awesome news, as it would cut some weight right away.
  • + 3
 You would more than likely need to run a UST tire on a modern hookless rim, in most cases. I had a wide Araya hookless bmx rim from the 80's that I ran on the FRONT for years. I could roll it off if I over inflated it or pushed it hard. I could unseat it on the rear just by pumping a corner. IDK, Being a bike mechanic for a long time, I've come across different sized beads on standard (non-UST) tires. If it's a larger diameter bead and non UST, a hookless setup has nothing to keep it from rolling off. Hookless is a big step backwards in that case.

But for UST tires, the toleraces are so tight, shouldn't be an issue. I know this much, if I was inflating a non-ust tire on a hookless, I'd have earplugs in, they just blow off the rims.
  • + 3
 You got there ahead of me oldschool 43:

"Being a bike mechanic for a long time, I've come across different sized beads on standard (non-UST) tires. If it's a larger diameter bead and non UST, a hookless setup has nothing to keep it from rolling off. Hookless is a big step backwards in that case.

But for UST tires, the toleraces are so tight, shouldn't be an issue. I know this much, if I was inflating a non-ust tire on a hookless, I'd have earplugs in, they just blow off the rims."

Pretty much word for word what I was gonna type. Personally cant really see any argument FOR hookless rims. I mean, the hook must add little more than a gram, which I'm sure could be made up for elsewhere, with a slightly less heavy duty tire bead or something, with massive added security in the tire/rim interface...
  • - 1
 Thing is, the proprietary 1ply UST tyres suck. In most cases they are at least 150g heavier than really good Tubeless Ready tyres and provide no cut resistance or stability increase. Their casings are made from softer rubber, so it is actually easier to slash or pierce them, Than the most average tyre. In XC/trail riding total 300g increase in rotating mass is a big difference, especially on larger wheels, 29ers in particular. Recent development in TR tyres is one of the best things that happened to tyres in recent years, defo more signinficant than 3c compounds.

Hook does one more negative thing than just weight, that is it makes the inner width narrower at same given weight. Maybe raised rim bead like on ZTR rims neutralizes the problems you guys talk about? I'd love to see few more companies like ZTR, Syntace, Specialized, sticking their neck out with developing "weird" wheels

We should be getting this kind of research in wheel department from industry side, not that stupid "intermediatization" and optimization like new wheel diameter.
  • + 1
 @WAKI, with the NEW 27.5 650b wheel size, being the new be all, end all, there are no other tire sizes.. Haha.. (well that's what I got from Interbike at least. Hope we have choices for years to come)

About the ZTR design, you need a hook to hold the tire in there. The Derby has it on the inside, with a flat inside wall.

Like right now, I'm running a Maxxis 2.5 Minion DHF EXO non-TR tire. It sits a bit loose in my WTB tubeless rims. I haven't tried to run that tire tubeless. I've run some actual tubeless tires or tubeless ready tires in that wheelset. Anyway, my mtb tires take more side loads and off angle pressures than my old bmx rims took. Every other weekend, I had to let the air out of the bmx tire, cuz it would unseat itself. The reason people have been able to run 20-25psi in their 2.5 tires for years is because of the lip/hook on the rim. I'm pretty sure if I threw that tire or my other non-TR Maxxis and Kenda tires in the Derby rims, they would roll off, unseat, blow out. That's a step backward, because TR-UST tires should only be used in that design.
  • + 1
 That was lots of interesting stuff, I think everyone who read it got a lot smarter in that department Big Grin thanks man!
  • + 3
 Derby Rims and the hookless specialized rims have no problems running standard tires tubeless. You'd have to seriously stretch the bead (to the point it would fail on a hooked rim) to get it over the edge of the rim. That's not going to happen on any decent modern tire.
  • + 2
 Argument for hookless rims: Easier to make carbon rims...also why spesh did it...
  • + 1
 a good point well made Waki. Hadn't thought of that, but yeah hooks must effectively make your rim a good few mm narrower. I am all for wider rims. wider rims with hooks ideally. I must say I tend to agree with Albe23. All too often tech "improvements" boil down to easier/cheaper manufacture, with no actual advantage to the end user, and often a rrp increase, despite lower manufacturing costs.

@ katmai, surely if the tyre went on without stretching the bead, it can come off too? I know often you have to push the tyre into the well in the center of the rim to get the other side off, and this is unlikely to happen out on the trail with pumped up tyres, but when I'm running a tyre at 25psi and really pushing the tyres through a g-out corner, well... I'm all for as much security as possible, and if that means an extra few grams of rim weight and as Waki points out, a marginally narrower rim (if the external measurment stays the same), then I guess I'll just have to put up with that.
  • + 1
 Perhaps it is time for a post-UST standard. Maybe, even Mavic might be persuaded to go along with a superseding standard if it built on rather than completely discarded the existing UST standards.
  • + 10
 Flows/Minion exos work for me. Just rim tape and sealant. Havent had any issues yet.
  • + 6
 What this guy said.

UST is unnecessary.

Have not had a tire failure(of many different makes) on new and old style Flow rims over the past 6+ years.

Long live Stan's Flows - wide, light, strong.
  • + 1
 I had 819s and they were the easiest tire to set up tubeless I've had. That said, my flows are pretty good (floor pump) and I've only had trouble when the bead was really dirty.
  • + 2
 I rolled an EXO minion off with the front wheel (air to landing into a corner). The floppy sidewall of the minion deflated instantly and I went down really fast and hard. Happened to me twice while within 2 weeks of converting to this. I swapped to a tube in the EXO in the front and 2 ply DH minion in the rear, and no problems since.

I may try the Jared Graves "ghetto tubeless setup next year, but tubeless EXO is a bad idea, the sidewall is just not stiff enough, if you burp it just goes completely.
  • + 1
 If I was getting serious air and/or riding proper downhill I'd probably just run industrial strength tubes. For XC/Trail stuff, I'll never go back to tubes, though. Flat free, 3 seasons & counting!
  • + 2
 I run this setup as well and love it. It is important that you check the pressure each ride. In every case where the tire burped, it was because I had not checked the pressure and was too low. I tend to run a few psi more in EXO Minion tires to keep the squirm down. 25 front and 35 rear. I would not use EXOs for serious DH unless you are a crazy ass pro. For bike park and downhill sessions I have a tubeless wheelset with 2-ply DHF Minions. FYI I have run across tires with defective beads. These have resulted in temporary loss of hearing and interesting Stan's spray patterns. Always check the bead!
  • + 1
 all mountain ride, just cruising, 35PSI in the tire. Run what you want, just be warned that an EXO doesn't burp, the sidewall just deflates because the sidewall is too soft. I have burped a 2ply DH many times and it's not a big deal because it has enough sidewall strength to still hold not lose all the air at once.
  • + 1
 > UST is unnecessary.
> Have not had a tire failure(of many different makes) on new and old style Flow rims over the past 6+ years.

big proponent of running tubeless as well (2 stans Flow/EX wheels on Trail and DH bike, CB Iodine 3 on Trail) but I have burped the front tire 3 times so far - including 2 hard landing on CB Iodine which caused bad crashes (!) (don't think it was too low pressure) and once on my DH bike (front was pretty low). Tires: TK 2.4 for bike parks, else TK 2.2 and SP ground control 2.1 for trail. On my last Whistler trip I managed to get a 'pinched' flat near the bead (too many fire road section due to tail closing), which sealed right away once I added stans back (was dry) - by comparison my group got about 8 flats tubes so I did much better. Bike also a lot lighter.

Tubeless is not all rosy. Starting to think UST bead an rim might have prevented 2 crashes for me so far.

I had 819 a while back, but never bothered with UST... heavy rims for such a narrow rim. Much happier with Flow EX
  • + 9
 Dear Mavic, Please start making WIDER rims like Stan's.
  • + 5
 Am I the only one who's perfectly happy with good old-fashioned (apparently) inner tubes?!
I run dual ply Minions with DH inner tubes and I cant remember getting a single puncture in recent years.
  • + 4
 On my DH bike I run the same combination as you and agree it works well. However, on my XC bike, I would never get near the podium if I had to run heavy tubes (or tubes at all) due to the big weight penalty. I run the new I9 Trail 24 wheels with X-King/Race-King tubeless wheels on my XC bike (and Stan's sealant of course) and it's been perfect for a full year.
  • + 4
 Having used mavic and stans ztr, i will stick with the lighter weight of the ztr. Only ever 1 issue with ztr rims which was the conversikns fault, if i had used the rubber insert rather than the rim strio there would have been no issue with loosing air, but possibly an issue with the 2 spokes going somewhere else that broke and punctured the rim strip... so it failed safe.
Having burped many tyres on 819 and 823 rims, taccoed the rims, stripped out the inserts, I know where my money sits.
Also tbe 823 rim is far too stiff, you need some flex intbe rim when riding hard(ish lol).
I have used dt swiss with conversions, and they were terrible.
The ztr rim just works, even when it is getting old and looks cracked (which is not too hard to do), that is only the outer section, the inneris not cracked and the rim still keeps going.
  • + 3
 I think Stan's calling themselfs "Stan's no tubes" is balls! Stan's rims are no more tubeless than any other tubed rim. They have to have a conversion done to them!
Don't write it on the rims till you have a full tubeless set up like mavic do.
  • + 2
 Please explain what the tube is in Stan's No Tube. The tire itself?
  • + 5
 He's talking about the rims. Stan's rims are no more tubeless specific than any other non-UST rim. You still have to use a sealing valve, rim tape, and sealant when using a Stan's rim...and none of those items come packaged with the rim.
  • - 2
 Well shacky, that's just cause you don't seem to know anything about the company and how it started... And you also seem to know equally little about their rims, since they come sealed up ready to go.
  • + 2
 Well ironxcross. Iv managed a bike shop for 6 years. Don't give a shit about the company, I give a shit about the end product. That does not come sealed and ready to go. We order 100s through the shop and not one has ever come "tubeless ready" and actually been ready to go tubeless with just a tyre.
  • + 1
 Apparently your management of the bike shop didn't include any reading of the manufacturer materials. While they don't come taped, they are more tubeless specific than other non-ust rims. Specifically, Stans use a very slightly larger bsd than other rims. This creates a tighter fit with the tires (observed by the bead snapping in place when inflated) and allows them hold air without burping. To recreate this with most other non-ust rims, you have to be creative with tape to build up the BSD to the point that the tire has a snug fit. Stan's works well enough that other companies (sun ringle) have paid them for the rights to license the patent.
  • + 0
 I tubeless wheels on a daily basis and Stan's are no better than a non tubeless wheel. Still have to use shitty tape or buy a rubber strip for mad money from them. (They should come with it if they say "no tubes" on the rim!
Mavic UST have definitely found the best way around the tape/rubber floor!
P.S judging by a your other posts do you just come on here to start arguments? I think so judging by your 1 follower.
  • + 1
 First of all, I'll admit I was wrong there if that's how yours come. I bought a prebuilt wheelset from them and it came taped ready to go.

Second, my main point was that their company is not called Stan's No Tubes because their wheels come ready to go tubeless. The wheels came way after their inception. The name is because they created the first user friendly way to convert non ust wheels to tubeless... hence "no tubes"...
  • + 3
 Love tubeless setups but for trail riding I have had the most success running non-UST tires on UST rims. Any UST tire I have tried has had pretty poor rolling resistance for climbing and pedaling but not really an issue on a DH or park bike where the extra bead security is needed.
  • + 3
 I don´t have tubless, but a lot of my mates do and they just use normal tyres. We are talking about decent AM riding on harsh rocky terrain as well. According to this report their tyres should deflate, yet in real life they don´t. Funny that.
  • + 3
 Interesting how the "standard" changes. So now it's ok to seal a rim bed with tape and it's still UST? What happened to the idea that a UST tire had to have an innerliner incorporated into the tire design to hold air? Now it's ok to use sealant and a "UST-ready" tire? Mavic is playing catch-up...Specialized is going in the right direction, as well as Derby. Wider internal rim widths, no bead hooks, and a ridge or bump in the rim well that acts as a lock for the bead. Tighter manufacturing tolerances for tires, and a uniform bead seat diameter across wheel manufacturers will really make the tubeless market take off...
  • + 2
 this is all very weird to me. I don't agree with the explanation on the patent.
you can take a look here - www.google.com.br/patents/US6257676
no need to read all the text (although I did few years ago). you can look at the pictures and see for yourself that the rim's bead hook is numbered 16 (and 17 at the other side) there is nothing in the patent that limits it to specific shape and dimension nor saying it having a square shape rather than rounded profile of a standard rim.
The patent only describes the dimensions and shape of the inner square tunnel. Here there is another strange thing. the first picture at this article shows Mavic UST rim with rounded inner tunnel instead of square one as the patent dictating.
So I might be missing something but this is my understanding of the patent.
  • + 5
 thats a pityful video....
  • + 5
 Top Notch! Big money went into that one.
  • + 9
 what i cant get is it ends at the most important bit...
  • + 1
 The only issues Ive had running tubeless in the last 8 years were with Mavic 823's and Maxxis UST tyres. They burped constanty on heavy cornering and eventually the spoke inserts stripped leaving me with an expensive head ache. Shimano rims and non - ust tyres worked very well with no problems at all over three years use. I'm now on Stans Flow EX and normal tyres and haven't had any issues. Lovin the lighter weight and ease of maintainance so far.
  • + 5
 UST- breaking tire levers since 1999
  • + 1
 I'll say this, about 1/3 of my tubeless compatible setups don't work the first time and several "tubeless ready" products don't work at all (I'm looking at you Continental). With a UST beaded tire and some sealant, I could successfully mount a tire in the field with a mini-pump, and ride it that way until the tire died. If you measure performance solely in weight and width, Mavic wheels will certainly disappoint. If measure performance by the hours of uninterrupted, mechanical free riding, nothing beats a UST rim/tire combo.
  • + 1
 Asking Mavic this type of question is bound to get a list of self promoting untruths. In fact the final bead form, and first ever hump on bike rim was developed within Vittoria by me in 1995. As the trading agent for mavic in Italy, we opted to discuss it with Mavic. While the engineering team explained to me at length thay a short hook would not work, they were intrigued by the auto/moto hump. After 13 months of argument they discovered a short hook could work. They went on to try to protect it, but the hook/bump ratio is PUBLIC DOMAIN. The plan for the roll out of this technology was hatched by Vittoria's President Mr. Campagne. Having spent his life sheparding such creations as the cassette tape, and the CD while working at Philips, he knew technology needs adoption as much as creation. The original tech was called Speedlock and was to be like VHS, CD, or Intel inside. Getting rim and tire makers to finally work to a single explicit standard was my idea, tubeless was inproved by this but the intent was tims and tires fit better, everyone is safer and happier. As we were not French enough, the not invented here thing persisted, add to this a few strong personalities, and no accord will be found. The first sample of this was actually made in 1986, and as it was very challenged by the MTB rim widths of the day (too narrow) it needed better extrusion expertise, to allow wide and light rims. This ginally happened at the hands of F.I.R., Ambrosio who made the first of the category in 1996, while Mavic only had samples 6 months after the Italians. Any Speedlock/UST rim holds ANY tire better than non Soeedlock/UST rim. Since this time I have designed over 300 tire rim interface systems for WTB, AMERICAN CLASSIC, NIMBLE, FRATELLI, MACH 1, FUNN among others. Today millions of bikes are running safer because if this simple change and refinement, and a wee bit of math.
  • + 1
 This year I got a new non-current bike from 2013 and it has UST rims and tires. I do not understand why, but they came with tubes in. Seems like extra weight for nothing, so I took them out. Pumped them with a floor pump. Wheels seem light. Works great. It is pretty tough to unseat the bead with the tire deflated, so I'm not worried about burping. The maxxis crossmark lust are not great in the wet, so I've been poking around for something knobbier. UST seems to be dead. There are plenty of tubeless ready tires, but I really don't want to mess with sealant, particularly if you have to re seal periodically-what a pain! Don't multiple coats of sealant eventually weigh as much as a butyl inner layer? And the mess? All over the rim? Are UST tires that bad? What am I missing?
  • + 1
 for what it's worth i've got SLR's on both my XC bikes and they're the best wheels i've ever owned. i'd never go back to tubes and really can't see any reason to buy any others when you can pick up good used sets for under $400 (i paid 300 for a set here off p-bike) whatever, just giving props to Mavic.
  • + 1
 I'm a diehard Mavic fan, too. I've run SLRs, STs, and SXs all without a single serious problem over a ten-year span of time. I've never broken a Mavic Crossmax spoke, and never experienced a failure or major mechanical.
  • + 1
 My st wheelset held up to me learning to jump. So many times I thought if tacoed the back rim by casing square edge landings, but it never showed any signs of damage. If I ever need a new wheelset crossmax is at the top of my list.
  • + 1
 Anybody know if non UST tire casings soften or degrade over time with the use of sealant?
Mine sure seem to suddenly puncture more easily after using them with sealant for a month or so.
  • + 0
 Went tubeless for a while because I kept having punctures (pinch flats all the time !!).

But soon discovered tubeless was real shit because if you ride hard, pointy rocks would go straight through the tire and make a massive hole, the liquid would not block the hole (way too big). this happened so many times (with the proper maxxis ust "dh" tires).

Now use maxxis dh 2 ply tires with (500g) maxxis tubes and have very very rarely punctured ! Who cares about weight ?!?! (even though the wheels and tires are the most important place to save weight...).

this is all riding enduro or dh in the alps (not bikepark stuff, but in the propor mountains).

tubeless is maybe great for xc but as soon as there are rocks and you're not on an xc bike, tubeless is a nono !!
  • + 1
 Ex823 with Hutchinson Barracudas. Couldn't be more happier with them. Bombproof rim with a great tire bead that was super easy to inflate. And NO sealant! That's right, NO sealant and next to none burping.
  • + 3
 I have one question on this subject. Can Schwalbe Muddy Mary with the DH casting can be run tubeless?
  • + 2
 yes
  • + 1
 Thanks
  • + 2
 Video from Stan's showing a comparison of tubeless systems.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGgWYpnztY4&list=PL369BAAB05A5771F5
  • + 1
 bingo... and this is why stans is so much better (and wide + light rims).
  • + 3
 Wish Mavic would have explained why their nipples keep pulling out and cracking their rims.
  • + 2
 I love tubeless I've ridden it for about 3 years now and can't fault it Mavic deemax with any maxxis tyre works I mainly run high roller ust
  • + 0
 @groghunter.... Ust not only work better, they feel better, have way less maintenance than any rim tape system and they last longer. The key is that your not threading spokes through rim. If its something that's important to you, you suck it up and throw down the cash.
  • + 4
 How long have I blinked for?!?!?!
  • + 2
 i have not used tubes since 2001. Mavic crossmax sx is my only choice for a decade on 2 sets and they run perfectly still and true. I only use UST tyres on UST rims.
  • + 1
 UST is the way to go. I burped several" tubeless ready set up, but never had one single issue with both the rim and tires being UST certified. Sure , it may weigh more, but peace of mind is sometimes priceless.
  • + 3
 I would like to hear more about the importance of rim width... I haven't thought much about it..
  • + 0
 That "bead hump" that's a feature of Mavic UST rims has also been an part of WTB rims for at least six years now, whether intentional or accidental as part of the extrusion tooling used to make their rims, its been there for awhile. In the last year or so they've been marketing it as some "improvement" on the no-tubes bead lock channels featured on their TCS rims but that's just clever marketing.
  • + 3
 While I do think that UST rim + UST tire is the best, the limits in choice means I run the second best - ghetto tubeless.
  • + 1
 changing tyres will be ghetto
  • + 1
 Last year I made a tubeless non UST tires and non UST rims so your argument is invalid. And the whole thing was working perfectly with a non-tire sealant. Smile
  • + 2
 Love my flow EX with my continental tyres. 18 to 25 up front and 23 to 30 in the rear love it.
  • + 1
 that's what I run as well, but the conti TK 2.2 (non UST, black chili) has to be the worst tire to seal I've had (swiss cheese side walls) - and I tried 3 different ones (thank god for Amazon return). Had to paint the inner walls 3 times with stans glue and let dry before even mounting it. the TK 2.4 (at 1000gr vs 740g for 2.2) have better sidewall leak, but still some work. SP Ground control and others were a snap to run tubeless...
  • + 0
 What about wheelbuilding? I can see some weird ass nipples there, would suck if they're stupid money as I was looking at UST rims for a new wheel build.
  • + 1
 Those " nipples" screw in and lock the actual nipples into the rim.
  • + 1
 Yup they do....but then the shake loose and the wheel shags itself to death leaving you with a huge bill.
  • + 0
 Just inspect your shit more often and that won't happen. Its obvious when one starts backing out. Just retighten and make sure the wheel is straight.
  • + 1
 UST: verb: a method for Mavic to extract money from the public and manufacturers alike.
  • + 1
 Seriously, you want to advocate UST to me, explain how you're going to start making it easier and cheaper to make UST stuff, and how there will be more pricepoints than "elite racer." There's an entire industry of products devoted to working around this "Standard" because this "Standard" isn't reasonably licensed and allowed to flourish. Making it not really a standard at all, but a method for holding the entire industry hostage from making a sensible tubeless standard.
  • + 2
 Agree. UST on bicycles is not really increasing reliabilty, it puts limits on the design and width growth of rims and tires.Inserts and countersink spoke nippels are a bit counterintuitive. Overdesigning the whole innersection of a rim whereas you could get the same level of functionality from a plastic strip is not really great. UST = brainfart.
  • + 2
 Actually its very reasonably licensed but many brands cheap out and try and develop their own systems rather than pay a royalty. Prior to "no tubes" marketing spin which has most of the bike world believing they invented doing tubeless conversions (as opposed to actually stealing of other people's ideas), IRC and Maxxis had their own systems in development within a year of the release of UST that involved their own tires and conversions of existing wheels/rims. Maxxis employed rubber rimstrips with presta valves that you installed to your existing wheels, and then fitted the Maxxis tubeless-ready tires to (I personally own 4 of those strips and they do work, but its a real pain to seperate the tires from the rims afterwards as they build out the bead diameter and make the fit super tight). IRC went the taping the rim method with seperate valves. Neither employed a sealant to make the tires airtight as that was already part of their design (as UST tires are).
  • + 2
 the UST design has at least provided a starting point for many companies to base their "tubeless ready" designs on, making it an unofficial standard. UST looked like it was headed nowhere a couple years ago and now it's in a way more popular than ever with TR tires from Specialized, WTB, Geax, Maxxis, Hutchinson, Continental, Bontrager, and more all using UST-based tire bead designs, and the same with many "tubeless ready" rims
  • + 1
 It's not really a starting point, however: It's patented, that's what I meant by "held hostage." So all those companies starting point for their tubeless designs was "How do we work around the UST patents?" for instance: square beads? nope, patented. Same thing applies to FSR patents: instead of focusing on improving bicycle suspension as a whole, a huge segment of the industry has spent countless manhours on "Engineering around Specialized's patents."
  • + 1
 deeeight - stealing others ideas is often a bold statement, just as thin is the line between plagiarism and inspiration. World is full of solutions which were made by taking someone's idea and developing it. Sometimes "inventors" get stuck in their thinking, and their children would never raise to their potential if someone else wouldn't take them under their wings, even if he did nothing more but bringing those ideas to a larger audience. So thank God for "stealing developers" (or thank Science! whatever rocks your boat - holy is thy reason, blessed is thy logic between earth and heav...galaxies, bozons, and quarks... let our grand grand children understand the events horizon, help us Science in the hour of our death with technology and drugs to painlessly send us nowhere after we die - amen)
  • + 1
 From what I've researched and been told by some industry people, Mavic has one patent on some specifics of their rim design but their matching tubeless tire bead designed was given to the ETRTO as an open standard. That is why you do see a proper square "UST" bead on tubeless ready tires from the brands I listed above
  • + 1
 Right. for tires. what about rims? I don't want to spend Mavic money on a wheelset. That's the whole idea: get tire companies to make tires for it, so that you can get people to buy your rims.
  • + 1
 WTB just introduced their new ST line of tubeless ready rims that are $50 online. Same UST-compliant system as their other TCS rims, 23mm inside width, though they are kinda heavy

Tubeless setups in general aren't expensive because of Mavic, they're expensive because it's a feature that companies can use to get people to spend more by reserving that feature only for the high-end wheels. Notubes isn't licensing anything from Mavic and they still only sell $600 wheelsets.
  • + 1
 Sure. 15 YEARS after the "Standard" was introduced, we have 50 dollar rims. If there had been a true, universal, non-license encumbered tubeless standard, we'd all have been riding the same system for the last 10+ years. instead we're seeing affordable UST rims now, from one manufacturer.
  • + 1
 What about Schwalbe TL ready tires?
  • + 2
 TL ready in name perhaps, but in practice they're hit and miss with the quality control. Same tire batches have seen examples that sealed perfectly without leaks in seconds, and others that had so many pinhole leaks in the sidewalls that your tire goes flat every ten mins, even after dozens of attempts at resealing them. I have one Racing Ralph TL-ready tire that I've taken to liternally PAINTING the inner casing with liquid latex and letting it dry to seal it before installing it onto the rim.
  • + 3
 ^^ I've seen three out of three Racing Ralphs have a million pinholes in the sidewall. CrossMarks instead.
  • + 3
 Use snakeskin or double defense versions, zero issues.
Had the same experience with Maxxis: exo where fine, other where more painful to seal.
  • + 1
 same painting issue on Conti Trail King 2.2 (non UST, black chili) - swiss cheese sidewalls. great tire otherwise.
  • + 0
 Wasn't this article released a few days back or do I just have an unknown déjà vu?
  • + 1
 Tubeless for life! 6 years and not one puncture!
  • + 3
 You forgot to mention it's on your mom's 29er that she rides to the shops occasionally, Lol. Wink
  • + 2
 What tires do you have? Wish mine lasted 6 years lol
  • + 2
 I once found a 4" nail in my rear tire. The tire never lost any air. The only reason I removed the tire was because I could hear something rattling around inside. I don't know why people run tubes anymore.
  • + 1
 Tubes for life! 10 years and not one puncture! (@ around 1.5 bar)
  • + 1
 Four years riding several times a week on sharp rocky trails. The only time I got a puncture was when the sealant had dried out. Popped some more in when I got home and it sealed up straight away. I have run ghetto to start with and now have ZTR Flow and ZTR Flow EX rims on my bikes and both work perfectly with a variety of non-UST tyres.
  • + 2
 where you riding? Inside the garage on the turbo...? probably.... Six years no punctures ..... get real!
  • + 1
 he doesn't mean that he's running the exact same tires for 6 years.
  • + 1
 Hagis you little bell end. Its the truth. Just because you get them lard arse! I run 22.5psi front 25 rear for DH not one puncture since UST. Read it and weep Fat boy.
  • + 0
 Put you tampon back in ! Try riding something like a mountain see how your Virgin puncture situation works out! Don't feel bad. A lot of people are ugly and talentless.
  • + 1
 Sorry dude who are you again? Oh yeah Haggis:- a savoury pudding containing sheep's pluck!

Yeah as you can see by my profile I don't do that much riding real mountains.

And you have really hurt my feelings about being ugly. Your wife said I was pretty damn hot last time out.
  • - 1
 Apologies about your ugliness, but thats what happens when brothers and sisters get together. Yeah, checked your profile picture shame you only ride grassy hills. But thats probably why you sooooo AWESOME and factory!
  • + 1
 Running mavic SX and love it tubeless . Hassle free
  • + 1
 I'll stick with my Spank rims thanks. They just don't want to burp!
  • + 1
 UST=uses standard tube
  • + 2
 long live the tube.

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