Inside Fox Float Fork Spring Systems - Video

 Thanks for the kind words!

 Please do a similar vid for talas. Rocks Shox and DVO would be cool too.

 LOL! You wrote your comment as i was posting about the noise.

 I don't know. It's kinda therapeutic. Nothing like talking tech over large industrial noises.

 Ah that noise just means you're working.

 Next time encode the video as progressive instead of interlaced also. Its 2016 lol.

 hahah well thanks - clearly we aren't exactly Red Bull Media House in here, but we'll put some effort into making it a little more watchable in future.

 I have a Corset on my Covert. Absolutely love it.

 corset for sb66 float ctd is great. new bike.

 There is some super cool stuff out there in other industries, for sure. Some of the F1 stuff is analysed to a really impressive level!

 Nice!

 Video was uploaded a couple of days ago, only just got put on the front page

 Haven't seen issues with the dimples, air shocks use them too.

 Thanks! You would expect the dimples to cause issues, I agree, but they don't actually seem to cause premature wear in the real world. Lots of air forks and shocks use the same system. We'll quite likely take a good look at shim stacks at some point down the line, probably not specifically with regards to any one product though.

 Yeah, both need to be done at the same time.

 Socket is correct, you need to do both. Check out this link for details on the air shaft spacers and transfer shaft configurations - www.ridefox.com/img/help/page566-QPDbnx/2015-36-140-180mm-FLOAT-NA-Air-Spring-Assysa.jpg

 @VorsprungSuspension: You mentioned there is a spacer you put on the lower air spring assembly, but I found a few videos that replace the entire lower air spring assembly. Which option is correct? If I can get an aluminum spacer, do you know the part # I should buy?

 That screw can be incredibly tight also, so take care not to strip it...

 @macming: check out that link, it shows you all the part numbers required for the 36 NA air spring. In some cases (if you have the NA2 air spring in a new 34 for example) then yes, you'll need to replace the whole shaft. There are a quite a lot of possible combinations and permutations of the Float system, so take care to make sure you're going about it the way that your specific fork requires.

 @macming: the 36 uses the aluminum spacers, sold by Fox, to adjust the travel. In addition the air shaft is re-located via small torx screw to compensate for the negative air chamber adjustment. the link above your comment has all the info, its pretty straight forward.

 I just sent my 34 Talas to Fox to have the same thing done. I would have done it myself, but I also had a horrible top-out klunk, which I presumed to be the rebound side. In the video, he mentions the dimple in the stanchion for the new Float spring. How are you supposed to use the new Float spring in an old fork? Don't you need the dimple?

 @Endurahbrah: The retrofit Float springs for the 34 use a similar setup to the 36, with the transfer shaft in the middle, otherwise you are correct, you would need the dimpled stanchion.

 @Endurahbrah: So I pulled an all-nighter putting mine together but I didn't notice the dimple. Mine was a 2014 and it literally just screws into the crown. I spent more time trying to get the retaining ring in that anything else.

 Thank you guys. I got word that my fork is back, waiting on the doorstep. Can't wait to get home and check it out!

 Plenty of people would agree with you on that, and we've discussed this with a few people at length. Although if we are looking at the parts count from a cost perspective, the air spring is still quite a bit cheaper than a Ti coil.

 Shall do - gotten so accustomed to the sound of the lathe that I completely forgot you'd hear it in the video!

 @VorsprungSuspension: Right on.

 Thanks for the kind words. We'll work on the production quality regardless

 Fit4 is what CTD should have been - a solid damper with a few different modes to choose from. RC2 is a more conventional damper in terms of having HS/LS compression adjusters and a standard shim stack (the Fit4 stacks are a little more convoluted). I agree, the current breed of Fox forks are very solid - low friction, good air springs and largely decent dampers. Of course, everything can and will be improved upon, but the starting point is already great.

 There is no way to adjust the spring curve on the talas. Its a travel change air spring

 You can add Float fluid inside the Talas5, but that's it for the moment. Recommend doing it by pulling the air shaft out the bottom of the assembly (remove circlip at bottom then pull), do NOT try to pull the top of that cartridge apart if you haven't been shown how. Alternatively you can remove the valve core and squirt some in through the valve. Definitely not as precise/clean/repeatable as proper volume spacers though.

To anyone reading this, please do NOT try this on any variant of TALAS other than the TALAS 5. It will make things far worse in every other Talas variant, not better!

 @VorsprungSuspension: thanks! I would probably bring it in to you guys anyways. I've found it quite progressive so far.

 This. Think outside the box! It's the most tuneable airspring on the market with massive possibilities for tuning negative and positive air volumes to achieve the feel you desire.

 The Neg plate spacers are what limit travel, as the more spacers, the less exposed air shaft out the bottom of the stauntion. And more air shaft up in the stauntion, with a greater gap between the seal head and the piston head. Thus limiting travel. The rod w dimple needs to be changed with the spacers, so the simple always remains in the same relative position to the air piston head.

 @aushred: negative air pressure and the bypass in the transfer shaft will always set the travel. I run my fork with a 180mm air shaft length and a 170mm transfer shaft setting. The fork is 170mm travel as the negative air pressure and the transfer shaft set the travel in my instance. If I put the transfer shaft to the 160mm setting then the fork will sit at 160mm travel with a bigger negative air volume.

This is because the negative air and positive air pressures equalise at the dimple and it is not possible for the positive pressure to overcome the negative pressure therefore the travel is set where I set the transfer shaft.

 @VorsprungSuspension Is this correct?

 You can adjust the travel by only playing with the transfer shaft, yes, but doing so does not give you a well determined amount of travel (not a big deal for most people) and you alter whether it tops out pneumatically or mechanically. Is this a big deal? Not if you're shortening the travel, because that way you go from mechanical topout (against the bumper) to a pneumatic topout (against air) which causes no issues provided all your seals are working. But if you're lengthening it, you most definitely want to play with the spacers in the air shaft, otherwise you're going to get very hard topout and no negative spring. Do as you see fit obviously, it's your own fork, but I would generally recommend sticking to Fox's specifications on that personally.

A note on increasing the negative chamber volume via any means - doing this means you need to run higher pressures. Running higher pressures without increasing the volume of the positive chamber means the ending stroke becomes very firm. You can only go so far with that before it becomes excessively progressive.

 @VorsprungSuspension: If it's good enough for CP and most of the folks at Mojo it's good enough for me!

 @RickDraper: hahah fair enough, Mr Porter has never been one to shy away from doing things his own way.

 @VorsprungSuspension: I've got a similar mod to Chris Porter, but a larger negative chamber. There is no rubber bumper for mechanical top out, and I have never felt any harsh top out only using the pneumatic top out. I have one orange volume reducer and don't find the fork ramps up too much, and holds up really well. It feels nicer than any new type FOX 36 I've ever tried (but I also have the Andreani damper kit fitted, so it is going to feel pretty nice).

I think people should experiment more to get the ride they want. If you have a 180mm 36, set it at 160mm without adding the lower spacers and feel how much nicer the beginning travel feels. There is no chance of damage.

 @notphaedrus: For sure, pneumatic topout will always be softer than mechanical, and I prefer it too. As you say, unless there is seal leakage then there is no issue with shortening travel in that manner (other than it not being a precise 10mm change, but unless you're OCD then that isn't a problem), but lengthening it from a factory configuration does require that the spacers be removed or it's not going to work properly. In your case you are actually decreasing the compression ratio (shorter travel, same final volume positive chamber) so no issue with excessive progression, however if you had somehow only increased negative chamber volume without changing travel (hypothetically - not the case with your setup), you would find that it does become more progressive, for better or worse.

 @RickDraper: Well, you sir are indeed correct, i might try this! Thanks for the insight

 @VorsprungSuspension: I don't think I explained by mod very well... it's by moving the negative spring seal plate further towards the bottom of the fork (like a new Lyrik or Pike). A bit like a 'Corsett' for a 36. This photo should give you an idea of my modified negative plate mount. Look in my photos at 13347845 & 13347842 if you have time. It works a treat, and can be customised by adding the 10mm aluminium spacers to give the desired volume.

 @notphaedrus: hi there I'm extremely interested in your mod. can I see pictures or further info so I can apply to my own forks.

 It also just struck me. That line of fork(f32) had a local reputation for being pretty progressive for an xcountry fork - fluid accumulating into the positive airspring?

 Have seen that happen yes - only two times though. It's a result of fore/aft flex essentially "walking" the stanchion out of the crown, not topout.

 Ah, yes, that makes more sense. Considering how unusual that failure is then maybe I should go bigger than a 34 next round.

 @jcklondon: Quite possibly - sounds like you might be pushing the limits of your equipment a bit there, so yeah a bigger fork will help a lot with that!

 Longest you can go to is 150mm with the retrofit kit.

 Check out the Mattoc review on the front page, they talk about that quite a bit.

 The Dorado air spring is good as well, though I'd say the 40 does feel that much closer to a coil fork at the start of the stroke. The IRT system is a double-edged sword - it has very high potential and tunability, but with that comes the increased number of variables that you need to balance, and that affect each other. If you're willing to put the time in to understand the system and tune it, then it can be great. If you want something simpler to get right, even if "right" maybe isn't quite as good as it could be if you had a more complex system that was optimised, then single positive chamber systems make life easier.

 @Socket: I did read it. And the reviewer admittedly didn't put very much time in tuning with the IRT.

 @VorsprungSuspension: thanks for the input. It does take some time for sure. I quite like it on both my Dorado and Mattoc. I wanted to get the opinion of a seasoned pro with experience with both systems for your take.

 @VorsprungSuspension: thank you for making such informative videos and for answering questions!
About the Fox 40 negative spring, is there more than what the eye can see inside that gold dome? In order to increase the volume of the negative spring, Fox could just have gone for a longer shaft and moved the piston upward...

 Omg single crown 7" Dorado with strong crown/arch. I can only dream so hard.

 @Kramz: I would like, as well as most of my riding buddies would be a lightweight 7" double crown from Fox. Has to be less than 1lb heavier than the 36.

 @Happymtbfr: I'm not privy to Fox's design methodology but if I had to guess I'd say it's because for manufacturing purposes you need to have the transfer port as close to the end of the stanchion as possible - it's very difficult to machine or press a small dimple on the inside of a tube like that if it has to be done a long way in.

 @VorsprungSuspension: thanks again!

 Not necessarily any of the travel variations - it was technically incorrect for me to say "one part number" in that video because there are actually several variants of the air shaft setup according to the max travel the fork is intended to have. Check out this link, it tells you what configurations are required for what changes www.ridefox.com/help.php?m=bike&id=576

 Hahah, they were all 36 parts unfortunately