To The Point - Aluminum Monocoque

Feb 20, 2013 at 8:02
by Matt Wragg  
Orange Bikes started producing frames way back in 1988, and have been doing things differently ever since. Eight years later, when bicycle production was heading East, Orange decided to bring it back to home shores and produce frames in the UK. The X628 frame in 1996 paved the way for what would come later and was thrust into the limelight by a young American named Missy Giove. Since then, subtle refinement and gradual evolution of a proven design have been Orange's hallmarks with that thinking producing multiple World Championship, World Cup and National titles across the world.

Welding.
Welding the headtube onto an Orange frame

What is aluminum monocoque?

Aluminum monocoque is a structural approach by which a frame is produced from aluminum alloy sheet. A single, external, aluminum shell forms the main structure and provides the structural support any load placed on the frame. It’s worth pointing out that aluminum monocoque encompasses a wide variety of different techniques that can produce a similar result. True aluminum monocoque arguably only exists in rocket construction and most bicycle, automotive, marine and aeronautical applications are closer to semi-monocoque as they use multiple monocoque structures to create the end product or internal structures within the outer shell/skin.

Do you use a specific monocoque technique?

All our monocoque frame parts are produced by folding aluminum sheet using a shaped vertical press. The press-heads determine the angle the metal is folded at and dictates the shape of the tube created. It is possible to hydroform aluminum monocoque parts to produce a bicycle frame. We use our current method of monocoque construction owing to our expertise and background in producing frames the way we have done since 1996. We produce the vast majority of the frame’s component parts via a single process rather than a mixture of different techniques.

Why have Orange decided to use this process?

Use of monocoque allows the creation of a bike frame with a reduced number of stress points and allows stresses to be dissipated more evenly throughout the frame.

Frame components ready for assembly.
A selection of parts ready for assembly

What materials do you use?

6061-T6 aluminum makes up the vast majority of our monocoque construction. Compared to other tempers of the same grade and other grades of aluminum alloy, 6061-T6 exhibits a better combination of higher strength, better workability, higher corrosion resistance and is more easily welded. 6061-T6 is also one of the most common and widely available grades of aluminum alloy which helps keep supply consistent and costs down. 7000 series aluminum is generally cheaper and is more easily welded, but is heavier and isn’t de-stressed by a post-weld heat treatment which is an important factor for us. 6061-T6 produces the lightest, strongest frame compared to any other grade of aluminum for our given construction technique.

How does the process work?

A single sheet of 6061-T6 aluminum alloy is loaded into a turret punch to cut out the required pieces. We produce as many of a single piece per sheet and the programmes reduce wastage where possible. The flat pieces are not inherently stiff but are easily folded. Minor folds increase the stiffness of the cut pieces exponentially. A downtube, for example, is folded several times from the horizontal until its sides almost touch and the increase in stiffness is dramatic. Aluminum hardens more when worked than other materials such as steel, and this part of the process sees it worked several times. Once the individual pieces are cut out, they make their way to the welding floor where the individual components are TIG welded together to create the outer shell. Almost all the parts for producing a front or rear are produced in this way. Anything that requires a finished edge (dropouts, shock mounts, bearing housings, etc...) are produced by a laser cutter or CNC machine off-site. Like in aerospace and automotive monocoque designs, we use structures within the outer shell to add strength to the outer shell and to better resist torsion. This internal structure is best exhibited in the rear swingarm where parts cut from different thicknesses of aluminum sheet are welded in to provide support in crucial areas. After welding, the front and rear triangles make their way to an alignment table before heading off for heat treatment that restores the material’s temper (T6) lost during welding. This process removes the stress from the frame and ensures consistency of the material properties throughout. The frames are aligned once more after returning from heat treatment.

www.orangebikes.co.uk

Author Info:
mattwragg avatar

Member since Oct 29, 2006
753 articles

126 Comments
  • 65 3
 What a strange article. It just seemed to be getting into the swing of things, then it was all over (make up your own jokes here).

If you're going to write a technical article on construction techniques, we need a bit more than 'It's aluminium: we bend it, then weld it'.
  • 25 5
 What ever do you mean? They take the BEST aluminium bend it the BEST way and that how you make the BEST bike.
  • 15 1
 Yes exactly. Pictures, I need more pictures!
  • 16 0
 If this is a Canadian website, and Matt Wragg is British (is he?) then why does the article say aluminum instead of aluminium?
  • 36 20
 canadians don't say aluminium. we evolved from that bollocks.
  • 49 10
 devolved...
  • 26 3
 I'm canadian, I say aluminium and write it too..
  • 28 1
 They said "coque"
  • 4 0
 needs a video, i know there's already been a video of the orange factory with guy martin but you can never see to many videos of this stuff
  • 2 0
 aluminium tabarnak btw i would prefer a structural aluminium tube than a bended sheet anytime..... as bending aluminium is pretty touchy especially with higher grades aluminium that are more rigid......
  • 7 2
 Actually aluminium isn't particular rigid (if you're thinking stiffness) as a material. Its the structure its formed into that is responsible for the stiffness. For an equal dimension structure, in steel and titanium and aluminium, the steel one will be the stiffest (nearly 3 times as stiff as the aluminium one. It will also be the heaviest and the strongest. The reason for bike frames shifting from being made from steel to being made from aluminium was never about stiffness, it was about weight savings. This is why a LOT of DJ bikes are still made from steel, because strength and stiffness are the overwhelming concerns and weight savings is not.
  • 1 0
 bending aircraft grade aluminium is prone to alot of fissuring its like bending CHT-100 steel ..... it breaks

also if we would have a picture of their bending press (dont know how to say it in english) we would probably see that there is nothing special going on in their factory....

next article needs more pictures
  • 3 27
flag Mat-S (Feb 26, 2013 at 13:24) (Below Threshold)
 aluminum = english, aluminium = french.
  • 9 0
 Aluminium with the extra i is the international standard spelling for the sciences. Its got nothing to do with french versus english.
  • 9 0
 Sir Humphry Davy, an English Chemist made a bit of a mess of naming this new element, at first spelling it alumium (this was in 1807) then changing it to aluminum, and finally settling on aluminium in 1812...
  • 5 0
 but anyway, just read the interesting article... who cares about the spelling or pronunciation of Aluminium ?
  • 7 0
 Everyone cares! High five Humphrey... the Yanks are only 201 years behind the times. Come on boys, now you know the facts it's time to change your spelling to the correct one.
  • 4 1
 It says aluminium on the periodic table... So shhh
  • 1 0
 YouTube guy Martin it is what it is . Factory video
  • 23 1
 Proudly MADE IN THE UK They might be a small company but they employ skilled hands on our country. Say what you want about Orange Bikes. Love them or hate them they have been around since the beginning. They know what their doing.
  • 5 0
 Honestly if i lived in the UK I would ride Orange, however I live in eastern Canada and ride Devinci! Gotta buy local boys and girls!!!
  • 19 0
 Hydroforming does make pleasing and durable frame parts. Stresslines and "weak" welds can be brought to work together much better than with alu-tubes or carbon. Lends itself well to local small scale makers that want to deliver iterative, ever better, products.

With an easy visual cad package, workshop with press - dies can be produced locally and modified to stay ahead of the taiwanese tube and carbon giants with their time to market of generic frames of 2 years, or more.

Paired with direct sales - looks like a very viable and meaningful way to make a living and building a community that appreciates local trade, manufacturing, good vibes and jobs.

Orange, Foes, Intense have it down to an art. Fresh bread always tastes better. While not exactly magazine-mainstream - are ahead in the looks, rideability and experimenting/engineering game. Kudos.
  • 3 0
 That's the way everything should be in a honest, equal, peaceful world.
  • 9 1
 You are definetly confusing hydroforming and monocoque.

Monocoque is bent sheets welded along its centerline. Not the best way to form a bike tube.

First the weld is at the major axis of the tube where you will find the highest bending stresses and will significantly affect its fatigue strenght due to stress risers in the weld. Even after full t6 treaments, the heat affected zone from welding will be weaker then the rest of the tubing. The less welding the better...opposite of monocoque

Second, the sheets are usually of uniform thickness. This means the tubing will be heavier as it is not butted. Weaker and heavier.

Hydroforming on the other hand starts with a butted tube (double or tripple) and deforms it with the used of an internal pressurized fluid and a mold. This will achieve tubing with the highest strenght to weight possible. Thick and oversized at the joints, thin an narrow where there is less stress. It is also possible to have many different cross sections shapes in the same tube and nice smooth joint transitions.

basically monoque is the least high tech and belongs in the 90s....this article is an advert that is technically incorect. Most companies like Specialized, Trek,Giant, SC use aluminium alloys that have mechanical properties way better then 6061-t6......again biaised article
  • 2 0
 ^Correct. To sum up my studies in engineering, you want to have the least amount of stresses exerted on the metal (high temperature changes, multitude of forces, etc) from its casting to the final shape. In this way you get the least amount of deformities in the atomic structure = stronger.
  • 1 0
 all you say is correct...... but even if the top tube has a weld in its centerline, its not that weld that'll break its the one on the head tube that will give up first..... also i belive that a frame that would be only tack welded would hold up a couple of runs for sure..... but still a technology that belong in the 90's
  • 3 0
 @Gilo, monocoque has nothing to do with a structure being made out of bent sheets vs hydroformed tubes. Monocoque Judy means that the skin is the structure. You can actually make semi-monocoque frames from hydroformed Al sheets likes Intense does.
Semi-monocoque structures can be plenty strong and very stiff if designed well. Hydroformed tubes are the method of choice for Al frames because it is the cheapest way to make a frame that is strong and stiff enough.
  • 1 0
 @bogey, i agree that the word semi-monocoque would be more appropriate. I guess what we are really discussing is seamed tubes vs seamless.

I agree that semi monocoque can be strong and stiff enough, but it will come with a weight penalty for the reasons i mentioned above.

Hydroformed is used because it is a superior tubing if designed accordingly. For example you can integrate gussets or suspension pivots supports right in the tubes. Again less welding which is better for the reasons i mentioned earlier. Look at the seatube on the treks....that is one well engineered tube.
  • 14 1
 A much better insight on the whole process: www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlIYEdRFQu4
  • 2 15
flag superbikes (Feb 26, 2013 at 0:44) (Below Threshold)
 Seen that vid a while back it's great. Put me right off orange frames tho. Just didnt like the way they correct the swing are with a poll.made me think if you landed sideways to often then you could bend the swing arm yourself. Thants not to say orange don't make good frames because there welding is spot on
  • 17 1
 But that's how it's done in literally every factory! And that is before heat treatment. After heat treating the frame will be much more rigid.
  • 21 0
 Fiat factory, there was a guy with a rubber mallet - his only job was to whack the body on a certain spot to align door, b-jamb and lower frame. Saw that. This guy was a precision whacker. The crank in your Mercedes was whacked into shape too. Whacking is a proper industrial process. Class Precision-Whacking 101. Dont worry.
  • 15 1
 For God's sake superbikes! T H E I R not there
  • 4 16
flag superbikes (Feb 26, 2013 at 1:24) (Below Threshold)
 It is what it is. If you can correct it then you understand it . Job done
  • 6 0
 Your having a bubblebath. Orange frames are stiff as hell, my old 2007 patriot is silly strong and the 2012/13 model is even more so as theyre not trying to cover the alpines duties with it anymore. This articles not great but the way Orange go about making frames most definatly is. Orange any day over some linkage frame, less hassle, more reliable and they look beautiful. Dont like folded tubes ? come on its gotta be better than kona and norco making frames that look like theyve been through a mangle!
  • 2 23
flag mattridesbikes (Feb 26, 2013 at 7:10) (Below Threshold)
 I couldn't make it past 5 minutes in that video. Guy Martins voice is just so fucking annoying.
  • 13 0
 Leave guy martin out of this he's a nice man!!!!!
  • 15 0
 You mean young Fred Dibnah?
  • 11 1
 Guy Martin rides a superbike around the Isle of Mann faster than almost any other human who has ever lived. I think I can forgive his accent. The dude has street cred spilling out of every orifice. I don't care what vehicle it is, he's faster than you. Lighten up.
  • 3 0
 Well said that guy is LEGAND
  • 5 1
 Guy Martin seems hard core; but what is he speaking? I can't understand a f*cking word he's saying. Maybe I'll have a dozen beers and see if that fixes my problem.
  • 5 1
 That is how a lot of people speak in the UK its called 'northern'. Guy Martin does make me laugh tho
  • 1 2
 E by gum lol
  • 1 1
 No offence Jaydmf but oranges are renowned for cracking around the shock mounts. They aren't any stronger than other manufacturers frames.
  • 1 0
 @jaydmf- Oranges aren't all that stiff or strong tbh. The rear end on my 224 Evo is pretty damn flexy for a dh bike, it's quite funny to squeeze the ends together and see what happens- it's actually bendier than my titanium hardtail never mind my old Herb. The mistake is in thinking it's a bad thing. Marketeers like "15% stiffer" but it's a matter of taste, a bit of flex can add grip even as it takes away control, think of it as lateral travel...

And strong? Well. Mine doesn't have any cracks or repair welds, which makes it a bit of a freak as 22s go Wink
  • 1 0
 A bit of a lateral flex can be very useful. Superbikes have engineered lateral flex to act as suspension in the corners when the wheel cannot use it's vertical travel.
  • 1 0
 I wouldnt say theyre renowned for cracking considering the number of them out there, but yes there is a known issue of cracks on the CNC'd shock mount on older patriots and 22x series. However i would compare this to the amount of damage ive seen to linkages on other brands and the amount of ball ache in replacing trashed bushings and bearings on linkage frames (from working loose or bearings dying) and youd probably find that theres far less issues with an orange. certainly on linkage frames ive owned theres been a constant need for maintenance (ie bearing replacement and pivot axles etc) where the orange needs just greasing every now and then. In terms of stiffness i really cant see a need for any stiffer frame for the trails ive been to. maybe if your a complete DH nut i can see that you want something silly strong. Ive not really played with any 22x series since a 223 so my comments here are only the experience ive had with patriots that myself and friends have had and fives.
  • 1 0
 I hope some of you realise that the stiffness of most frames is probably calculated to be the best for it's purpose. Flex is a good thing (To an extent). If it was so stiff that it wouldn't bend then once a high enough lateral load is applied to it it would crack and cause a serious problem. The allow for flex is to stop the material cracking. Someone mentioned about their Alu frame being bendier than their Ti frame? Well no shit; Aluminium is farrrr less stiff than titanium (Not taking into account difference in sample form).
It's the same concept as aeroplane wings... Without flex they just snap off and neeeeeoooooooowwww DEATH.
  • 10 1
 Again I'm going to the point, leave the technical reviews and articles to the guy WHO WAS A FRAME BUILDER and was one of the first to make aluminium monocoque bicycle frames, Richard Cunningham... and leave the fluffy clothing reviews to folks like Matt. Its clear he can write and regurgitate info given to him by manufacturers, but I'm not sure he actually understands the material he's writing about. Orange might like to song and dance about why 6061-T6 is so great, but what they're really saying is "we can't afford to work with anything better". The only 7000 series alloy that is routinely used in bike frames that is cheaper is 7005-T6, and that's because its so much stronger than 6061-T6, and welds up quicker, and that it doesn't require a post-weld heat treatment to still have adequate strength afterwards. It DOES however undergo artificial aging though usually which also involves an oven.

In terms of strength, and actual numbers... 6061T6 has an ultimate tensile strength (the point it breaks) of about 45,000 psi (or 45 KSI for short), 6013-T6 (Giant used to use this extensively, also known as Alcoa CU-92) is 55KSI, 6066-T6 (Santa Cruz Bullit's from about 2002 onwards were made from this) is 57KSI and 6069T6 (which Santa Cruz made the Superlights from as an example) is 65KSI. 7005T6 is 51KSI.
  • 2 5
 To add a bit: I don't know about sheets, but for tubing material is less important than it's "shaping". Strength to weight wise, a butted 6065 T6 tube will always be better than non butted 7020. Then properly hydroformed connection like downtube-headtube will be better than using a gusset. At the same time overuse of shaping creates problems, like pressed monocoque stuff from Intense, which looks awesome and God bless them for doing it, but it will never have the same structural integrity as tubing. In case of Intense I prefer that over wicked trying too hard like Azonic Eliminator. We can also talk moulds vs CNC, and many many companies are guilty of using moulding to form simple elements like dropouts, even for top end models (at least before carbon came along).
  • 1 0
 Was going to say, the information that was stated about 6061 vs 7 series wasn't exactly correct, and could be construed as completely incorrect (7 series is generally 25-50% more expensive, and stronger in most instances). And when I see things like a temper being used as a way to describe aluminum it makes me laugh a bit. All frames should be brought back to the correct temper whether they're made from a 6 or 7 series and T6 is the SAME for 6 or 7 series. 6061 is only used for hydroforming or monocoque frames because it's more easily manipulated without getting micro cracks along the bends. 7 series is also heat treatable for stress relief (take a metalurgy class if you don't believe it) unlike say, 4 or 5 series.

To add to those numbers, alu frames are using 7050 at 80Ksi, 7075 at 83Ksi. Nearly double the strength of the 6061 most companies use (45Ksi).

These articles are starting to need peer reviews to correct misinformation.
  • 1 0
 @Atrokz, while it is true that 7050 and 7075 are supperior alloys...you will not find them in frame construction as they are almost impossible to weld. Most high end components are made of this alloy but they are either forged or cnc machined.

7005 is what you will most likely see in the 7000 series.

High end frames will use 6066, 6069 or proprietary alloys.
  • 1 0
 Gilo, frames do use 7050 and 7075 in places like linkages (note I didn't stated weldment but rather 'using', so not to jump down your throat but you jumped the gun concluding I meant welding). There were also a few frame manufacturers that used 7050 for weldments back when.The high Zinc content (5+% about) caused some to use 7020, (which they list as AW-AL Zn4.5Mg1.5Mn) due to liquation and solidification cracking. 7075 is definately not weldable in a structural aplication, but there is 7020, 7039 and there are also proprietary 7 series as well which have been developed with weldability in mind.... Yes 7005 is easily welded, but don't dismiss the ability to get good welds from 7003/7020/7039 as there are procedures for this in place.

7 series is usually stronger, but does not lend itself to tube manipulation in the way 6 series does, which is why you never see 7 series in most modern frame designs. Many frames where tubesets are straight (ala nicolai) are using 7005 and 7020 series, and have been since their inception.
  • 1 1
 What about those 8000 series that Cannondale is rumoured to have used in the past?

If you use let's say 7075 T6 instead of 6065 T6 in let's say a drop out - how do you calculate how much of it do you need? Barely on CAD/CAM model? I just designed a frame for myself that will have D-outs made of 7075 T6, but apart form the fact that I use the material I have done only comparative studies for thicknesses and sections from other frames made of "weaker" material. I silently sense that many manufacturers take looks over figures and form stuff according to tastes (no problem about that) so the argument about use of "stronger" material seems a bit BS-ish, if you use more of it than necessary... unless let's say 7075 is noticeably lighter by volume than 6065?

Any input on that?
  • 1 0
 Frame designers are supposed to perform FEA's on bikes they design. It’s one of the reasons we pay what we do. In doing so they can determine if the material chosen has the right strength/weight/size to it and go from there. It's always ideal to create a safety factor into it, but on something like a dropout you'd want it weaker than both the frame and the derailleur as it's a sacrificial part. Some designers design a bike to ‘look’ a certain way, but don’t think it’s all like that, as the industry is getting competitive and we are seeing some fantastically thought out frames these days.
  • 2 0
 @Wakidweeb.... there is no alloy called 6065. Repeating the same make believe number series alloy over and over doesn't make it suddenlly exist.
  • 1 0
 @atrok, i agree with you that there are all sorts of aluminium that have better properties then 6061, the problem is to find tubing made in anything different then 6061 or 7005. Of most interest to me are the tubing made of 7series with scandium added as trace elements. Wth scandium you get the strenght of 7075 but with very good weldability. Problem is it is super expensive and very difficult to find tubing in this material. I guess at this price point it probably make more sense to go with composites.

@WAKIdesigns, 7075 would give you more strenght, but has the same stifness as 6061. For a dropout your consideration should probably be stifness over strenght. By designing with enough stifness....i am sure it will be plenty strong. At that point one would probably consider the cheaper material of the two. Basically 7075 has better strenght to weight ratio but same stifness to weight.
  • 1 0
 Thx Atrox and Gilo!
  • 1 0
 Gilo, yea, I was actually looking at scandium the other day for making up a trail bike. A few of us are building a few jigs (the 8020 type) and I've got the option of Titianium of scandium. Prob go with Ti, but scandium is definately an interesting alternative.
  • 5 0
 On Wikipedia so must be true ;-) "Orange-sponsored riders have held the downhill world cup championship in 2001 (Greg Minnaar), 2002 and 2004 (Steve Peat), as well as the women's under 21 downhill world championship (Tracey Hannah in 2006)"
  • 6 0
 Orange bikes hand made in Halifax Yorkshire England . Each one is hand crafted using true British engineering and a bloody big hammer. Oh and the road racing legend that is Guy Martin is from Lincolnshire. BY ECK!!
  • 9 0
 Proud to own an Orange bike Big Grin
  • 3 0
 Processes have evolved since 1988.

Whilst they have refined their bending & welding hydroforming is surely a more accurate and less weighty way of providing strength/lightness where needed.
  • 1 0
 It is, but its also costlier to do since you need big machines to do the fluid forming...ie) expensive tooling outside the capability of small brands like orange.
  • 2 0
 Hydro is very expensive, which is OK if you are Giant or even Santa Cruz, but not so much for Orange etc...

How much, you ask? I'm pretty sure you could get several carbon frame sizes for the price of one hydroformed top tube tool. It can be in the hundreds of thousands for multiple parts, and the majority of the formers are overseas. Next Interbike go find the one or two Taiwanese booths with their hydroformed steel and aluminum tubes they want to sell you. Most of the capacity in NA is taken by automotive manufacturing.
  • 1 0
 @twozerosix : tools and molds/dies for a hydroformed tubing are approx 5k ......def not hundreds of thousands haha
  • 1 0
 @Gilo

dude an hydroforming machine would be in millions of dollars not thousands...... we have a huge hydraulic brake-press at work and they bought it for more than a million.... maybe dies that are machined parts sell for thousand but not the big machine.. do you even know how much a CNC machine costs?
  • 1 0
 Well I guess you've got to love a good box section if you like Orange because their frames are very expensive. To get the same component level on a Five as I've got on my Canyon Strive you'd have to spend about twice as much. Plus the Strive has some hydroforming. The thing that really sells Oranges is the geometry and the resulting ride. However, they no longer have such a monopoly on this.
  • 1 0
 @guigui333, My point is that if tomorrow i want to get a custom hydroformed top tube to my specs. I can call a tubing manufacture in china or taiwan and they will charge me around 5k for the tooling and about $25 per tube. They already have the machines. They could ship me the tubing where my own factory would cut,mitre and weld as usual.
  • 1 0
 @Gilo I wouldn't disagree with that but it would probably be something very similar to what is already made by that factory. I've quoted tooling for a slightly unusual shape in steel tubing (think: combined top tube and down tube) and it was well over $100K. If you want a variation on a chainstay I could see that being $5K. To hydroform an Orange frame would be quite a bit more.
  • 1 0
 @twozerosix, this is why most manufacturers will only hydro the top and downtube. It would not be cost effective to hydro every single tubes. They attack the 2 heaviest tubes of the frame as this is where the benefits of hydro are the greatest.

The design you got quoted would really solve many issues at the headtube junction. It would def be in the hundred ofthousand dollars due to the complexity. I would be the first one to buy that frame too. Problem is trying to strecth alu more then 25-30% will drive the cost throught the roof. Deform......anneal.....deform.....anneal......repeat. I would love to see it accomplished though.

From the pictures it looks like Lapierre managed that on the zesty and spicy. Either full hydro or double pass welding followed by grinding to super smooth finish.....looks amazing and his puzzeling me.

Cheers
  • 1 0
 @gilo you are correct you seem to know this stuff pretty well .... what do youdo for a living ?
  • 6 0
 This is far more interesting when Guy Martin explains it!
  • 2 0
 i rode a 222 for 10 years racing dh. used it in the alps and whistler on the odd summer holiday. its still being used today by some young guy who bought it from me a year ago. what a bike!
  • 1 0
 This doesn't really add much more detail than the video they made with Guy Martin last year. www.pinkbike.com/news/It-is-what-it-is-Orange-Bikes-Video-2012.html I'd like to see a few more facts and figures and a bit more detail on the manufactring and testing processes.
  • 1 0
 I remember that year ago, here in Argentina, a guy was making a project to build cheap MTBs. The prototipe was great, were made in two pieces of steel sheet and welded together with a spot welder. The problem was that for high production, the die cost a fortune.
  • 1 0
 Guy Martin, talking about monocoques: Orange don't do owt fancy like that, they don't try and baffle you with science, they don't try and baffle you with all these bullshit names..."

Orange: puts on Lyle Langley voice> " monocoque..... Monocoque.... MONOCOQUE!"
  • 1 0
 Guy Martin Orange video. For those who don't know who Guy is check a few Isle of Man TT videos out on You Tube. Guy finished 4th in the solo men's at Strathpuffer this year as well.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlIYEdRFQu4
  • 1 0
 'We use our current method of monocoque construction owing to our expertise and background in producing frames the way we have done since 1996' is shorthand for 'hydroforming requires too much investment and we don't have the engineering expertise as it is'. I'm very proud of being English and I work in a British engineering company but I'm bored with watching Orange and Hope justifying their archaic manufacturing techniques.
  • 3 0
 Not enough pictures Frown but very interesting to know how my orange would've been made!
  • 3 0
 This has been around for years: "IT IS WHAT IT IS" with Guy Martin

www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlIYEdRFQu4
  • 2 0
 what a coincidence, we also just posted a blog yesterday pretty similar. www.pinkbike.com/u/TWOSIXBIKES/blog/Twosixbikes-and-the-process-of-hand-made-frames.html
  • 5 1
 Multiple monocoques ? Oxymoron much ?
  • 4 3
 Strong, yes. Stiff? Meh. Orange is like Harley Davidson. Quality? Yes. Modern technology? Kinda. Die hard fans? Thousands. Eventually they'll need to modernize to a more stiff rear if they hope to compete.
  • 1 0
 its amazing how they make these bikes. it not only takes a welder, but you must be highly skilled in heat treating and distortion to make a bike....thanks to the jigs.
  • 3 2
 How could a brit possibly dislike orange ? they have character comaped to a frame that is welded for next to nothing in taiwan
  • 3 0
 @JoeeeCunningham

Taiwan is not cheap, welders make real good money in China and Taiwan. recently a new bridge in the UK suffered cracks in the welding. They had to fly a team of welders from China to the UK because there was no one with enough skill to do the work from the UK workforce Frown
  • 3 0
 Thats mad considering we used to have people like brunel building bridges , we need to step it up!
  • 2 0
 @hampstead
they would have called us or people from France
  • 1 0
 @JoeeeCunningham

agreed, its really sad when you consider the loss in skilled workforce in the UK

I was watching one of the freeview channels last night and they have their "Mega Ships" programme and it was all Scots, Irish and English guys working for off-shore companies doing skilled oil rig work and container shipping jobs along with global crews from Europe, States, Asia

there simply aren't the UK companies doing that anymore Frown
  • 1 0
 Nice vid on how the Orange bikes are actually made, just couldn't understand a word Guy Martin is saying Smile

www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlIYEdRFQu4
  • 2 0
 Nice intro. Lacking article. Pfffffftt.
  • 1 0
 More pictures and diagrams would be good - it would certainly help to portray the bending and semi-monoque concept.
  • 1 0
 the first monocoque frame[mountain cycle san andreas] gp1.pinkbike.org/p4pb9011753/p4pb9011753.jpg
  • 1 0
 + 1 fo the san andreas , and + 1 for the first full suss in production too ...well almost ,..
  • 2 0
 @krazyjey

remember littleJ from Cycle Surgery with his Orange full-suspension frame?

he found a crack in the top tube / head tube junction, sent it back under warranty (10 months old) it came back a different colour?? (he thought a new frame!)

he then found out they had removed the head tube, cut the top and down tube about 1" shorter with mitre tool before welding it, re heat treating, and fresh paint, so it was his original frame but 1" shorter?

he was kinda shocked if I remember, and had "strong words" with Orange, who fobbed him off, he sold that frame off cheap and bought a Santa Cruz Wink
  • 1 0
 @hampsteadbandit and @krazyjey - did you two fellas used to hit hampstead heath circa 1999-2001? I used to work in Freewheel and Cycle Surgery myself.... wondering who you are!!? Big Grin
  • 1 0
 @ rusty , that s correct , we were riding the heath those years . which bike were you riding at the time ?
  • 2 0
 @krazyjey - I'm wondering if you're crazy Jay the french geeze I bought a Specialized P1 from?! And smoked a rather large joint with while watching footage of the early Megaavalanche.... Big Grin I used to get about on a Spooky Metalhead - swapped it for a VW polo with.. err shit can't remember his name - Andy? Rode BMX too. We used to hit the jumps up at the Spaniards.... long time ago :shock:
  • 1 0
 @rustybones

that's about it, you know who krazyjey and hampstead bandit are, for sure Wink


Andy is still on the scene, he showed me a "scenic" route through Hampstead village last year, one of the most amazing urban street descents I have ever done, wish I could remember all the twists and turns we took...

I'm still riding the 'Heath, strictly XC trails on my Stumpjumper 29er and lots of road riding on my Tarmac Comp, all the jumps and stunts have gone on the Heath but replaced by sweet singletracks with miles of distance to be explore

happy trails rustybones!
  • 1 0
 I'm gonna buy an Orange when they finally get a sweet dual-link going, always loved their mainframe stealth look
  • 2 0
 Cavity wall foam filler any 1 ?
  • 2 0
 Any chance you could do an article like this on Hydro-form tubing??
  • 1 0
 @Skootur - Classic! Big Grin
  • 1 0
 wish i could afford to ride local Frown GOD our beautiful english skills dont come cheap
  • 2 2
 Unfortunate that their finished products look like a throw back to when they pioneered their monocoque process circa 1996.
  • 4 2
 Feeble attempt at PR.
  • 4 1
 Yea - that went exactly no-where
  • 2 0
 Haha...he said coque
  • 2 1
 orange aka box section
  • 1 1
 Shame Orange stopped making the Miii, I would defiantly buy another one.
  • 2 3
 Well..seriously Orange got nothing on Nicolai and the bikes are still fugly!
  • 2 5
 Rather hear how innovative brands make theirs, Orange are old hat.
  • 3 5
 Orange?! Who is that?
  • 2 0
 haha.. ; )
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