Red Bull Rampage Judging Explained

Nov 15, 2012
by Lunchbox Larry  
 
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Photo by Reuben Krabbe
  One head judge and four additional judges hold the winning runs in their hands.

Due to the fact that so much controversy has been tossed around in Pinkbike's comments sections regarding the judging at this year’s Redbull Rampage competition, I feel the need to write this article in hopes of shedding some light on the situation. There seems to be no doubt that Kurt Sorge was the obvious winner and that Logan Bingelli and Antoine Bizet had great runs, however most of the comments suggest that Kyle Norbraten and the McCaul brothers should have been scored higher. A few things that will need to be considered before we get started:

1) I was one of four judges at the event, so what I say/write is not the view of all of the other judges or the head judge.
2) It is a judged event so there are obviously differences of opinion, to what degree I think something is hard or stylish or risky may not be to the same degree that someone else thinks is the same. If all judges agreed on everything you would only need one and not four.
3) Rampage is a very unique comp on the FMB World Tour. It was created as a true test of “big mountain freeriding” and this is the way it will always be. A major factor in big mountain riding is line choice and it weighs heavily in this event.
4) Judges' scores are tallied and averaged to give the riders a ranking. Scores determined by the early riders and their performance set up a base score from which all of the other judges' scores must be equated to determine their ranking of the riders. Yes, this can lead to issues if you do not leave room in between riders’ scores to allow for other riders to “fit in” which is sometimes why scores look “out of line.”



Last year the FMBA introduced judging clinics and judge certification in order to bring consistent and knowledgeable judges to the world tour. The association now has numerous certified judges that it uses to judge all levels of events. Only the most experienced judges can judge events like Joyride or Rampage. The judges at Rampage were:


Head Judge: Paul Rak
Photo by Reuben Krabbe
Paul sits on the advisory board of the FMBA and was instrumental in developing and instructing the judging clinics. He has been a judge for numerous events over the last 7 years including Joyride and Rampage. He comes from a background in World Cup Snowboard judging and has used proven judging models in order to define the criteria for the FMB World Tour.


Tibor Simai
Photo by Reuben Krabbe
Tibor is a professional mountain biker from Germany with over 10 years experience. He has judged pretty much all of the major competitions in Europe including Redbull District Ride, 26 TRIX and the Qashqai series. This was his first year judging at the event and he is the first European to judge at Rampage.


Josh Bender
Photo by Reuben Krabbe
Josh is one of the co-creators of the Rampage event, in the summer of 2001 he and event organizer Todd Barber scouted the original site in the Kolob Reservoir just a few minutes from where Josh was living in Virgin. He has since been a previous judge and a competitor, scoping and developing some of the biggest drops in Rampage history. Josh is also one of the current builders for the event and has put in countless hours hiking, digging and sculpting the current Rampage site. His knowledge and expertise were pivotal in deciding line difficulty scores at this year's event.


Dave Smutok
Photo by Reuben Krabbe
Dave has been a pro rider for over 7 years and is currently the manager/trail boss at the Highland Mountain Bike Park. His background as a racer and as a pro freerider make him an excellent FMB World Tour judge. He is also the co-founder/organizer of the Claymore Challenge.


Chris Lawrence
Photo by Reuben Krabbe
One of the original pioneering freeriders who starred along side Tippie, Simmons and Schley in Kranked I and II. Moved to the other side of the camera in 2003 to work for Freeride Entertainment and help produce the New World Disorder series. A past Canadian DH Champ, an ex-freeride pro with K2 and the only person to have judged all 7 Redbull Rampage events.



There should be no question that the team of judges appointed for the 2012 Redbull Rampage possess the necessary qualifications to judge the biggest and most prestigious stop on the FMB World Tour. All have been certified and are quite experienced in judging at this level.

The categories for judging at Rampage are as follows;

1) Fluidity and Style
2) Air and Amplitude
3) Tricks
4) Line Choice.

As I mentioned earlier, Rampage is a very unique event on the tour and also one of the hardest to judge. Dividing the score into 4 marks out of 25 allows for a breakdown of each rider's run and their performance. Criteria #1 deals with how fast or slow the rider travels on their line; are they charging and flowing or are they pausing and hesitant? Do they have a loose and comfortable style or do they look robotic and stiff? Category #2 accounts for the size of the jumps or drops and if they stick the landings or come up short. Next is the amount, variety and difficulty of tricks landed as well as where they are placed within the run. Lastly and most importantly is the choice of line. In a big mountain comp this is worth 25% of your score, obviously a lot more than any other type of event on the tour.

This may hold the answer to the majority of the questions and controversy behind some of the scores that seem to be so confusing. More specifically Kyle Norbraten’s line, which, in the opinion of this judge, lacked creativity or difficulty. If he had shown more difficulty and creativity in his line and pulled the same tricks with the same fluidity and amplitude he would have added at least 5 points to his score and that would have moved him up at least 4 places. And not to say that line choice is the only way to win in this competition. Semenuk followed a similar line to Kyle's in 2008, he scored low in comparison to others in line choice, but his other marks were so high that he was able to pull off the win.

The McCauls were similar in that their runs were smooth, fluid and had some amplitude, but lacked the tricks and the line difficulty or creativity than that of some of the other riders. Cam’s line had one element that was definitely more difficult than any other rider on the mountain, but you can’t “put all your eggs in one basket.” Tyler’s line can be analyzed the same way. His trick score was average and so was his line choice mark. He was definitely fast, flowing, smooth and stylish, but that is only one of the categories on the scorecard. If we analyze Sorge’s run we can see that his line interpretation showed difficulty and creativity, he had various tricks and he displayed great fluidity and lots of amplitude.

The level of riding on the World Tour is very high and extremely competitive. Rankings are decided by fractions of points. 3 or 4 points can move you 5 places up the result sheet. Part of being a world-class competitor is knowing the game and how it’s played. I can only assume that these riders will learn from their results and if they want to improve will return to Rampage with a different strategy. Good luck to all and may the best man win.



Please feel free to ask questions in regards to this article or any other questions you have about the judging on the FMB World Tour in the comments section below and I will do my best to answer them as quickly and as accurately as possible.

338 Comments

  • + 491
 Norbs got robbed!
  • + 111
 ^^ Completely agree!!

In my personal opinion Scoring on Line and tricks can not be so black and white. There is a shade of grey there that I do believe the judges over looked. What I mean is that the line may have been fairly technical had it just been ridden with out any tricks, but when you add a trick into it: The line has now become even more technical in itself. I do not believe the judges looked at it in this aspect and therefore scored Kyle lower. This should have been taken into consideration because watching over Norbs' run again, it would be foolish to say his line wasn't a top 3 in technicality.

I'm sorry to rant but I also believe everything that was stated in the article was mostly known to begin with. We were all aware on how the scoring was judged. It has been stated in multiple sources and has not changed since 2001. I feel that for any understanding on our part as a community, we need every judges personal input. I realize you said you can not speak for all but to truly put this to rest, we need everyone's opinion.

What I'm getting at is, Sorge's run was bomb. But can you honestly look back at both runs and say that Sorge deserved 20+ more points than Kyle?

As previously stated.... Norbs got robbed, along with the McCauls
  • - 87
 Robbed to what degree? What's really important is being in the top three spots right? For me everyone sitting there truly deserves to be there...
  • + 31
 Even IF you say he wasn't on the podium for the reason of line choice, that line was gnarly, with it having steep drops and tricks, and a big air at the end. He had a great line, amplitude, style, tricks, and fluidity was off the charts.
  • + 54
 What seems crazy to me is that the stepdown to wallride from Gee's line last year can be considered this year to be uncreative and simple. I'm not sure if the line was changed, or if everyone just stepped it up a ton.
Certainly Nobraten's line had no tricky new lines like Semenuk's transfer gap, and was lacking slightly on the "billy goat" shenanigans going on up top. However, his line was definitely still average or above average.
In my opinion, he was one of the highest scorers on tricks, we can all agree his threes were insane! And he certainly didn't lack fluidity or style! As someone said in life behind bars "very few people can make this look like a fun place to ride.. He killed it for sure."
Finally, his air and amplitude off the wallride gap and Oakley sender put him right up there with the rest of the best.
What frustrates me is that the judges let a merely average line completely cripple a performance that was so stellar in all other areas! He blew the competition out of the water in 3/4 of the area, was middle of the road in one, and that makes him 10th of 20?
  • + 109
 Sounds to me like the riders should get to score everyone's run but their own.
  • + 48
 There's a real simple solution and thats to post the makeup of the scores when the rider finishes the run. That way its easier to break down and for people to see. Only reason not to do this is if you're worried one of the judges isn't doing it right and itll be obvious when the scores are revealed. If thats the case they shouldn't be judging.

Example score:
Rider: Cam Zink
Fluidity and Style = 19
Air and Amplitude = 13.2
Tricks = 13.7
Line Choice. = 18.5
Total Run 1 score = 64.4
  • + 99
 Hey even Semenuk said that Norbs got robbed. And Soderstrom, Andreu and Zink also agreed on that. (latest episode of Life Behind Bars) I think that tells a lot.
  • - 15
 @LavenderGooms:" the stepdown to wallride from Gee's line last year" He took the line from Romanuk, who was out by blessure!!
  • + 43
 It just sucked that in the end it turned into a backflip contest. Next time people are only going to be concerned with throwing tons of tricks and not ripping a huge line. Some of the crazy lines just cant be tricked and riders should not be penalized for that.
  • + 2
 Wasnt that line prebuilt before the event by the organisers, like the oakley sender and the canyon gap?
  • + 6
 frykt- different takeoff. Roman's was way gnarlier and harder to stomp... not to discredit Gee's takeoff as it is insane. And Stinky- that's prob why they took away so much from their line choices. The Sender has been hit by multiple riders this year and in 2010, this year the gap to "wallride" has also been tested and hit by multiple riders, although the takeoff was built by the riders. The canyon gap (which had an incredibly improved landing compared to past years) has been hit numerous times by other riders as well. Also technicality of line choice is not affected by what tricks you do, those are two separate categories. Just playing devil's advocate here, not stating who or who shouldn't have been scored what. Wink

My only gripe, based on what I've heard from others, is that the Rampage should have an open qualifying event if it's to be on the FMB tour.
  • + 10
 @ scott-townes. I agree with most of what you said, but back to what I mentioned earlier, technicality of line choice IS and SHOULD be considered by what tricks go with it. Take for example: A rider chooses a line that has a 15 foot drop and the landing is in between two very large rocks, and only allowing you inches to either side to clear. Hitting this straight on may be fairly easy. Say a rider decides to 360 the drop, the technicality of the line has now been stepped up by applying a trick to the drop. Trying to thread the needle between the rocks will be much harder then hitting it straight on. points should be applied to HOW a line is ridden along with what line is chosen. I realize this feeds into the style points, but as I stated, it can not be black and white.... There is a bit of grey. Therefore that is why I think the tricks should compliment the line scoring as well... But this is only my opinion.
  • + 7
 I'm gunna agree with everyone else. When I first watched Norb's run I thought he was going to place really high. However, when I saw his score I thought to myself wow, so you have be even better and smoother then that?

When I saw some of the other riders get scored higher I thought....wait a sec...their runs weren't that smooth as Norb's...something isn't right.

I'm not sure what the solution is. Judging a competition has a lot of factors involved. One might think one thing is easy while another person may think it's a gnarly extreme ass trick. It can be very subjective.
  • + 15
 It can't be said enough. NORBS got ROBBED!!! I don't know what they were doing while he was doing his run but they were not looking at him.
  • + 11
 Apparently Norb's run lacked creativity??? How about 2 3's in a run??
  • + 6
 His LINE choice lacked creativity and difficulty....that seems to be what people don't understand. When this comp was created in 2001 it was modeled after big mountain skiing which was where mountain bike freeriding was going, slopetsyle and dirt jumping had even come into the mountain bike competition picture yet. It was about riding a creative and difficult line down the mountain. There is no other comp on the tour that allocates 25% of the score to the interpretation of your line for creativity and difficulty. In comparison to most of the other riders his line was not as creative or as difficult BOTTOM LINE...Yes his trick score was high, two 360s is impressive in a run at Rampage, amplitude was above average and style was good. He placed top 10 and 4 points out of top 5.....was he robbed? How so? Should he have won? Top 3? I know one thing for sure, he gained a lot of knowledge and confidence in his ability to compete with the best in the world at the biggest comp in the world and I look forward to seeing what he does with it when he returns in years to come.
  • + 18
 LOVE the idea that the riders votes should be counted as the 6th judge.
  • + 3
 So did McCaul, completely agree with Sorge winning though.
  • + 35
 I literally LOL'd when he said, 'Don't put all your eggs in one basket!' What the hell did Cam Zink do at the last rampage and win? Wake up man, this sport is all about that one big banger trick/feature to set the line where no other man is going to cross it. Norbs was one of the best looking riders on the course and there isn't any number or category that can dispute that.
  • + 6
 As an official of sports who can somewhat see from the eyes of the judges, it all comes down to how they see it. Sure we are watching it from a screen and have all the camera angles and see exactly what is going down, and they have monitors doing the same, but they are there in person. Its the same thing with hockey for example. When you're 50 feet away from the ice in the stands you can see a hell of a lot more than the guy down on the ice, so granted he is going to miss a few things, but it comes down to how the guys see the play. However, please do not mistake this as a defence for the judges. I believe that write ups like this are completely unnecessary. As I saw the title for this write up I knew there was going to be problems off the bat. Imagine if every official in every sport wrote up a blog post regarding a controversial call they made in a game, every time it happened. You get inconsistencies in what really happened. They made a decision, and in their opinion was right, but as the fans have blatantly pointed out, it was wrong. What are these inconsistencies I speak of? The entire first paragraph. Something like this: Was Norbs hesistant or charging? I'll go with the latter, charging for sure. Was Norbs going big, sticking his landings, or what he coming up short? 2 threes of gnarly drops would say he did exactly as described. Variety? He did two three, back to back, in the rampage... Line Choice? I can see that being the only factor keeping him from winning the event.

I will agree completely with Lunchboxlarry above. The knowledge that Norbs gained from this comp outweighs the momentary glory of winning. Norbs will come back charging twice as hard and dominate.
  • - 19
 How about live online voting from the Pinkbike community? Or are we not qualified enough to make those kinds of calls....
  • + 12
 "The McCauls were similar in that their runs were smooth, fluid and had some amplitude"
fluid and had some amplitude
fluid and had SOME amplitude
HAD SOME APLITUDE.

wow maybe any of the judges have never floated 18 meters....
  • + 32
 Where's protour I feel like he's got some great things to say...
  • + 15
 The fact that judging for this kind of event has to be "explained" a few weeks later is absolutely ridiculous. Judged events - like figure skating, freestyle gymnastics and apparently FMB - will never be completely fair, it's up to interpretation. Timed trials, like downhill or 4x racing, always have a winner that is indisputable. Quickest over the line wins, no question. With judging, who knows.
I guess I'm just really disappointed in what Rampage has become. A week with a team of dedicated builders.. for one rider.. for one hit?? Huge pre-built wooden features with massive sponsored ads? A panel of judges that either a) sticks to the rules so tightly that a clear podium spot like Norbraten gets missed, or b) has another agenda so that a clear podium spot like Norbraten gets missed??
The sad truth is that judged events will never be totally fair and there will always be people that get robbed. This isn't the first time this has happened. IMO, the integrity of FMB is only going to slip unless the scoring methods get revised.
Huge props to all the riders, and their dedication. And props to Bender for hucking his meat in Virgin, before anybody else even cared.
  • + 3
 yup - exactly those words are true skip - the judges it is broadcasted live and therefore the people watching it should be able to give their votes for every rider
  • - 11
 To cjwanner: Actually we don't have monitors at Rampage and maybe the officials should have some ownership over their calls ie recent NFL touchdown controversy. As for your Norbs run interpretation you are slightly skewed. Charging is not a category...fluidity and style is and his were average. Amplitude was average. The drops he threw the 360s on were not gnarly and were inconsequential. Variety is not a category it is a sub category of tricks, 2 of the same trick does not show variety....although he did score high in tricks for his two 360s...Line interpretation, we don't need to hash this again... so there is no question that line choice was not the only thing that kept him from winning the event.
  • + 7
 Anyone who watched the event could take note that the lines into the canyon gap were not as difficult as toward the middle of the course. Obviously the riders know that as well. If the line choice is factored as heavily as it is, then they know that they weren't going to score well on that category.

When the discussion about the pre-built stunts was going on, everyone was able to agree that it's ALL big and technical. The easiest line shouldn't still give a relatively high score just because it's still hard, so you can see a lot of points being lost because of line choice.

Nobody had as difficult of lines as Sorge, Bingelli, and Bizet, other than Claw, Semenuk, and Doerfling (who no one is complaining about not being on the podium) and all three had ridiculously smooth runs with good tricks. I don't see how anyone else could have been scored higher.
  • + 2
 @thedeathstar That sums it all up for me.
  • + 9
 Just watched a bunch of lines again, and while I thought Norbraten was scored when I watched live, his line really didn't have the gnar factor that some of the others had. It was a little more slopestyle for sure. Such an amazing run, but I totally get what Lunchboxlarry is saying, and agree. It's not a slopestyle comp, it's a big mountain comp, and that's what makes the Rampage so sick.
  • + 7
 Kurt Sorge for the win!
  • + 8
 Icculus19425: That is where my fear for the future of the comp is. This is suppose to be a different kind of event... NOT just another slope style event. With judging like this that so clearly favored one area over the others there is no risk/reward.

Why would you risk a super gnarly line, huge transfer or huge gap when you can just do tricks. Every one of those guys can do a back flip in their sleep. So why risk it on an 80 foot gap when you can do a 30 foot back flip and get more reward?

Redbull is suppose to be about creativity, flow, speed, balls. Not about who can do the coolest looking back flip.
  • - 3
 Surely the winner should be the person who makes everyone sat behind their computers, or at the event go "whaaaaaattt!!??". For me, that was Norbs. Sorge's run was great, but it didn't have the wow factor for me that Kyles run did. Can they not try and build in some sort of live, public vote?
  • + 1
 either way, the judges are sick.. all of these guys are the shizz!! growing up watching Kranked 1, and later on riding at Highland. seems they know what they are talking about. no matter what
  • + 7
 this is how it went down:
sorge: gnarly big mountain line to suicide to whip to straight air the oakley sender to superman to backflip.
cam mccaul: gnarly big mountain line on a ridgetop to stylish whip to double drop to really fast run in to 70'+ whip to backflip a stepdown very similar to sorge's stepdown.
Norbraten: ridgetop line to big 360 drop to another huge 360 drop (both same rotation despite what the live commentators said) to romo/doerfling/gee stepdown quarterpipe.
1st, 2nd, 3rd. IMO.
  • + 2
 The line creativity is a BS thing since it is sooo subjective. There is no way they should say Norb's line was uncreative when people hit the oakley sender and icon gap and got better scores. Are they uncreative since these are established hits that many other riders hit? I know how you get there is up to the rider but still. Also it is getting to a point where there might be so many lines built into that mountain that creating a new one just isnt feasible. I still think Sorge won, and Norbs should have placed high. In the top 3? probably not, but def not in the middle of the pack.
  • + 8
 Negative propping comments from someone who besides being one of the rampage judges, IS a former DH champion and freeride pioneer is the very definition of immaturity people. Chris has been there, done that, gotten the t-shirts. What have the rest of you done? Sat behind your keyboards watching events on the red bull channel and armchair quarterbacked the whole thing ?

People who can, Do. People who can't, Whine on internet forums.
  • + 4
 To Lunchboxlarry: I didn't comment on this post to engage in an argument bud, I am actually somewhat sympathetic towards where you are coming from. There is no argument that officials of any sport need to be accountable for their calls, but once a call is made, it is hard to take back no matter how long the write up or apology. As an official, you're going to take heat from everyone, no one will be happy. You pick semenuk to win, Sorge fans will be pissed, you pick Sorge to win, (ie) Norbs fans will be pissed. The problem I find with explanations like this is that there are (like I mentioned) inconsistencies. As quoted "with how fast or slow the rider travels on their line; are they charging and flowing or are they pausing and hesitant?" But, above you just told me that charging is not category. Did I need to type "Charging and Flowing"? Or is it just flowing? because its not charging? Do you see where I am coming from? This isn't something that I want to start arguing over, but it brings me back to my point in back pedalling after a decision has been made, or irregularities in explanations.

I apologize for making this seem like an argument, I am just expressing my opinion. I support your decision and believe the top guys deserve to be there, I just think we have different opinions on Norbs run. However, maybe I need to take the judging course and that would help me further understand.
  • - 10
 Yup, Sorge got robbed. He should have gotten 1000 points for that run. He threw a F*CKING superman!
  • - 1
 nittygritty- 1) Fluidity and Style
2) Air and Amplitude
3) Tricks
4) Line Choice.

See how tricks has its own category for judging? haha... it doesn't make much sense to include that into line choice, although I'm sure it has SOME impact in that aspect, even with your imaginary scenario that never occurred. That's like saying a 15ft. drop between two rocks is more tech than a 10ft. drop between two rocks so amplitude should also be considered in line choice judging.
  • + 2
 I'm glad that the judges at Rampage are being to transparent about the judging from this year's event. However, I don't see any reason for having to explain themselves. In the end, it is a judged sport, they are the judges, they've been trained... and that's just how it work. I think they did a much better job then us armchair athletes. The judges are all very knowledgable and have made their livings from the mountain bike industry in some way. I'm sure they understand how much was riding on this event for all the competitors and took their work very seriously. I hope to see K. Norbraten at the top of the podium at the next Rampage now that he knows a more about how to "play the game".
  • + 2
 @ cjwanner: No worries just wanted to reply to those who aren't just saying random crap. It's more of a debate than an argument and there will always be differences of opinion.
  • + 2
 Couldn't agree more.
  • - 2
 Opinions are like Assholes.. everyone's got one!!!!
  • - 1
 I believe the judging should be limited to professional or ex-professional slope-style riders who are not competing in the event. I don't think training a judge can give any judging at a competition of this calibre any justice. A judge who has competed in the slope-style/freeride scene can watch a trick/line/speed/whatever, and can acknowledge the difficulty of it, not only for how it places on a little organized scorecard, but for what it is actually worth. Personally, I would like to see each of these judges grab a bike and pull off a well-executed 360 off those 30' drops into powder before they say that they "were not gnarly". Sorge definitely deserved that win, but some of the other riders, I think (just my opinion and I'm sure others have the same), were placed in positions they didn't deserve. And this is SOLELY due to judging from judges who probably don't have much experience throwing 20'-high moto whips or banging perfect 360's into very unforgiving dirt.

Just my opinion.
  • + 0
 Before the event people were complaining about how it wasn't as big mountain as it should be, now they complain that the scoring shouldve been as if it was a slopestyle event. Rampage is a big mountain event, not slopestyle, the judges remembered that.
  • + 2
 I'm stoked on this article and I think it was a good idea to inform the community a little bit. This article doesn't claim that their method is the ultimate judging technique, he even says that big mountain comps are very difficult to judge. What the writer is doing is explaining the judging format and layout so that people can see why the scores ended up the way they did. I DO think that it can be improved on in the future, and that this current judging structure may not be up to par with what people like to see on the mountain nowadays (aka McCauls, Norbs!) and it would be cool if they could make sure to update the judging format to modern standards. I suggest maybe pulling in a CURRENT SEASON FMB rider who is injured as a half/full judge and taking their input on the rider's lines. For instance "I know he has a hard time doing opposite spins" or knowing what trick is only just starting to emerge in the contest scene (backflips/gainers off flat drops etc). I really liked watching Aggy judge the B-I-K-E contest between R-Dog and Sorge, some element of that kind of judging could be helpful on top of previous methods!
  • + 1
 if you read this article fully and understand it with half of half your brain, a quarter to be exact, you will see why the riders ended up in the places they did, however, I still think Norb's ( writing that as if I know him, what a laugh) should have been marked higher, his three's trumped all the backflips that were thrown in my opinion, he landed them fairly cleanly and with uber style, this man killed it. As for the McCauls, I don't know, I love both their style's but I tend to side with the judges, just look at the experience between them all, Lawrence was the tits back in the day!
  • + 0
 After reading this article over two days, I get to the comments and roll over laughing seeing this comment Smile hahahaha
  • + 0
 Something is obviously wrong with the judging system if it has created this kind of turmoil. Hundreds abd hundreds of die hard fans shouldn't be upset just so 4 people(judges) can have their way. I know you didn't plan for it but maybe rethink the system for next time!
  • + 0
 Well part of the problem is its a sport where these hundreds of upset fans THINK they're all that matter and that the sport revolves around them and that they are entitled to having their way. And its why the pro-tour event organizers adopted using certified TRAINED judges awhile ago as Chris has explained in this article and in his blog.
  • + 1
 here I will explain the judging in 5 words or less. Shit was fucked.... see I did what they did, in an entire article, in 3 words
  • - 2
 U R ALL Ratarded
[Reply]
  • + 43
 This question is more about FMB in general. "Rampage is a very unique comp on the FMB World Tour." If it's so unique then why do riders get invited based off their ranking at events that are nothing like Rampage? Why not have riders there that want to be there? Riders like Sam Pilgrim clearly didn't want to be there (and expressed that publicly). Why not give the riders that both want and deserve to be there a chance at it. FMB, your goal was to build up our sport but I'm afraid you're failing at it.
  • + 13
 Because the point of the FMB tour would be moot if only some of the riders were invited to the events. Then you could have someone winning the tour because their competitors weren't invited to the same number of event as them. If the FMB tour is going to work, than it has to be the way it is now, with all the top riders at least invited to the same events, (whether they go is there choice) so that they all have the same chance.

However, I do agree about Rampage being different to other contests, and that it takes a fairly specific rider type to compete there. For instance, there are loads of good big mountain riders that didn't get to go because the roster was full of dirt jumpers that wouldn't have been as good on that type of terrain. But the dirt jumpers HAD to go if they wanted a shot at the FMB tour, and some points, even if its not the kind of riding they enjoy.

I know not everyone would agree, but I think that it would possibly be worth having Rampage as a stand alone event, not as part of the FMB tour. Then riders would be selected on big mountain ability, rather than FMB standing, and there wouldn't be pressure on riders who didn't want to be there to ride and do well just for points. It would be more like it used to be, people competing for the glory of riding or winning Rampage. But, at the same time it would motivate Dirt jumpers to do more Big Mountain if they wanted to go to Rampage, and would possibly progress riding, bringing tricks and new ideas to big mountain for example.

Just some quick thoughts though, feel free to point out any flaws in my logic. And as a disclaimer, I'm not saying there shouldn't be Dirt Jump focused riders at rampage, i think Soderstrom, Pilgrim, Rheeder, etc were pretty epic at rampage this year, and I'd want to see them there again if they wanted to go... Also sorry for any bad spelling, couldn't be bothered doing a spell-check.
  • + 6
 Totally agree! The Rampage shouldn't be connected to FMB, much like World Champs isn't connected to the World Cup, but especially since they're not nearly the same animal. Rampage is a discipline all on it's own. Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't most FMB events slopestyle type events, or if not very similar to. Rampage is not slopestyle, no one can argue that.

My opinion would be to do it like the 'Speed and Style' events, and the timing should replace the line choice. If done exactly like the S&S one would need much more time reduction for their Fluidity and Style, Air and Amplitude, and Tricks. However I would say go a step further and just have a set chart that all riders can go off knowing if timing is worth 25% and you get under x time form start to finish you get x amount of points.

That may be the dumbest idea ever but line choice, in this event, is just too subjective to be fair to all.
  • + 0
 Pilgrim could have said "Sorry guys, im not coming".
  • + 5
 Rampage is freeride mounting biking. How could it not be on the tour?
  • + 3
 Yep, and Crankworx is slopestyle mountain biking. Imagine if riders were left out of Crankworx in favour of Thomas Vanderham, or Gee Atherton, etc. There's a limited number of spots available at these events and they're not picking the best candidates to be there. I'd have no problem with it being on the tour if everyone that wanted to be there could be there. I know for sure there's a ton of riders begging to get into Ramage that are way more deserving to be there and way more capable on that terrain than some of the dirt jumpers that somehow get an invite.
  • + 3
 @euan91m, you thought Pilgrim was pretty epic this year? He skidded down a 1/3 of the course, no style, no speed, obviously uncomfortable, tomahawked over the bars and then threw his bike and had a hissyfit...what about that was epic?
  • + 0
 The World Championships IS related to the world cup though... national team members get picked by their UCI points AND their placement in national championship events. The Nat Champion gets a team spot automatically, but if second place at the Nats didn't do many major races that year and didn't earn many UCI points, he/she won't make the team going to worlds. The only way they can compete then is to get themselves to the worlds and ride the at-large qualifier with all the locals who show up at the venue.
  • + 3
 You're right, but World Champs does have any weight on the series overall results which was my point.
  • + 1
 @megabyte:

You will, if you read the comment properly, notice that I didn't say "Pilgrims RIDING was epic", I said PILGRIM was epic, small difference, but there you go.

I know he didn't ride the best out of all the people at Rampage, and obviously it's not his style, and he was never going to be the best there. But, my judgment of his time there as 'epic' is completely subjective and I would be surprised if everyone agreed. I personally feel that Pilgrim (along with a few others who struggled with the terrain) did pretty well to go out and try, knowing that its not his style, and that he was going to have trouble with the terrain, and I would imagine, knowing that he wasn't going to place well. So yeah, I think its pretty epic that he went out and tried while knowing it wasn't his thing, and that it was likely he wouldn't enjoy it, and could possibly hurt himself while trying. I know I wouldn't have done that.

But yeah, I think it says a lot of good about him as a professional rider, going to, and trying at, every event, not just the ones he thinks he could win. I'd give props to everyone who rode there, just because I couldn't and I find it impressive. I am British though, so I'm obviously biased in Pilgrims favour, so maybe everyone else sees it differently.
  • + 1
 I do however agree with your (megabyte) previous comment, as well as the comment by @scochrane4, in that Rampage doesn't seem like the same type of event as the others, for me it seems like the equivalent of adding the 'Paris to Dakar' or the 'Baja 1000' to the 'World Rally Championships'. Rampage just Isn't the same animal, and it shouldn't be forced in to the tour just because it takes place on bikes in the mountains.

I also liked the idea of speed and style, it could help make the judging more formulaic, rather than guess work. If the current system was correct people wouldn't disagree with the results so much.

Again, these are only my opinions, and I wouldn't be surprised if people think that they are (or even if they are) wrong.
  • + 1
 Ya reckon Sebastian Loeb couldn't win the Dakar? Carlos Sainz seems to do well. Nic Vouleouz and Semenuk are pretty good rally drivers too. Lets bring all forms of mountain biking and rallying together and create a super action sports championship and I'll be the judge and if you don't like my judging you can be your own judge and then everyone will be happy except the sponsors and the guys riding who don't get paid. I think Norbs got robbed only because he went early and he was so cool to watch cause he was enjoying himself. He still wasn't in my top five. Cam Mcaul got robbed cause he had to get over to the Canyon gap which was off course for every other big hit. He had done the canyon gap before two rampages ago and did a small no hander. The expectation and I think some judging pressure was on him to do something like his stunts over smaller gaps in NWD films7,8&9 which is crappy and seeing as he knocked himself pretty hard on the head on the drop right after the gap in 08 I think he did awesome but no better than fifth. Tyler got robbed because well he always gets robbed because he is compared to his brother too much.
  • + 1
 @deeeight: just to clarify just because you win National Championships you do not automatically get a place on the team. That is for the National Federation to decide.
  • + 1
 @timlake... that varies with which country you're racing in. The rules in britain aren't the same as other countries use.
  • + 1
 @deeeight: exactly, hence why I said it is for the National Federation to decide.
  • + 1
 @deeeight...So that was a bad analogy on my part since the selection process is woven in there pretty tightly, or so it seems for most countries. Also, after browsing some more comments it sounds like the purpose of the FMB is to crown a freeride champ, which makes obvious sense based on the name of the tour, it's just my opinion that the tour weighs heavy on slopestyle type courses, however I really don't follow it too much so I may very well be incorrect.

Regardless, I personally could care less who wins this event I just like to watch these guys ride. The ONLY thing that I was DISAPPOINTED IN was NOT SEEING GEE, CAM and BRENDAN....

Respect.
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  • + 31
 I am no freeride comp judge but fans and Competitors at Rampage felt that Norb's was robbed, an overwhelming majority in comparison to the judges.
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  • + 20
 Respect the judges decision, just sit & relax let them do the hard workSmile
  • + 2
 That's the point. They DID NOT do the hard work. Just kinda missed the mark to say it kindly.
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  • + 13
 I think the judging was better than at previous Rampage events. I also feel sorry for Norbs, but still believe the judging was fair. It's sad seeing so many people just flaming the judges. People need to keep in mind that seeing the event on camera is NOT the same as being there and things probably look a lot different in real life.
  • + 4
 concur! ... those judges pack are great people with great background.
  • + 3
 Just as a point of note, the judges are watching the same feed on monitors as the fans at home...it's impossible to catch 90% of the details of any given line in person without the use of a video feed.
  • + 3
 Very much so....the judges spend hours walking the venue to make sure they know the lines, where people are going, what level of commitment is involved, how much risk, technical skills required, etc. and yes it looks way different in real life than it does from the helicopter angle on TV
  • + 4
 The difference is that the Judges see it from a first person perspective by walking and observing first hand the lines and they note and map the degree of difficulty of each region. Sitting behind a computer screen and watching the event without walking the territory cannot properly justify the degree of difficulty (especially for line choice). That being said, I have a feeling that if Norbs won then a lot of people would be complaining about Sorge's performance.

No matter if it's Rampage or the Olympic's, judging will never satisfy all.

IMO, I don't think that Cam McCaul should have won but he should have scored higher since his run was flawless and that Canyon Gap, Ouf !!! It's takes Mega upon Mega balls to attempt that. Just too bad there were not many lines heading into it.
  • + 4
 i agree. i think cam should have 2nd and norbs 3rd.
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  • + 12
 Much respect to the judges for coming out and doing this. While I may disagree with some of the picks, someone else will disagree with me. It takes balls to stand behind a decision when confronted by such a huge audience that disagrees. I don't envy your job, and people will ALWAYS have something to complain about when it comes to judged events. It's a good opportunity to see where things could be improved, as I'm sure you guys already well know, but again, kudos to you guys for sticking to your guns and helping us understand your process!
  • + 1
 Thanks Larock, I appreciate your frankness and honesty. As I side note the judging process and criteria will be part of the discussion at this years annual GM for the FMBA at White Style.
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  • + 13
 This thread is possibly one of the dumbest things I have read in days. You idiots should spend more time on your bikes and less time crying about this bullshit.
  • + 2
 If I could prop this +100, I would...
  • - 3
 so your saying norbs didnt get robbed completely? his run was amazing
  • + 4
 i hate when people say that. no ones riding 24/7, for example if you do a 6 hour ride, that means you have 18hrs left in the day to go on pinkbike and comment. the time people spend on pinkbike is not actually taking up riding time
  • + 3
 No he's saying get over it , shit happens and such...
  • + 0
 Forgive him. In America we use our iphones to surf pinkbike WHILE we ride and eat McDonalds at the same time. We then call it time management.
  • + 1
 Exactly. This thread sucks. Imagine what could be done with those "extra 18 hours." Read a book? Hang out with fellow humans instead of mouth-breathing at a computer screen? Work a job so mommy and daddy don't have to fund your life? Get laid (that my be a stretch though, judging by how excited you mongoloids are over this)? Check out some live music played by actual musicians, not some computer generated Dubstep bullshit? Catch up on sleep?

Personally, I would rather run a frayed derailluer cable over the tip of my dick than waste time on a argueing about judging.
  • + 1
 i see nothing wrong with complaining and discussing about the sport i love. personally i think people should get more involved, we the people control how the sport will progress and part of it is saying something when you dont think its right...
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  • + 10
 I thought an explanation from the judges would silence the critics, turns out I was wrong.
It's a sporting event with a judging criteria. Not a reality tv show where you decide.
Time to just deal with it Smile
And many thank to red bull and all involved for making it happen.
[Reply]
  • + 9
 Sure, this judge explained himself well, it is subjective after all. Personally i saw Norbraten's run as where I see mountain biking, i felt the same way way about Tyler and Cam McCaul's runs, and less so about Bignelli and Bizet. Sorge's run I felt was a deserved winner.

Point being, "the way I see mountain biking". The judges are doing the same thing, but they are judges, judging by a template, all be it a Rampage one. Some of these judges have an amazing career behind them in mountain biking, and i would not question their love for the sport, but in order to progress, we should have the people currently competing judging. At the very least there should be a member, if not 2, of a panel of four, who is a current rider, or even a proxy judge, who is the collective voice of the competitors (so the vote is still one judge, but that score comes from the riders and is thrown in with the other judges scores).

The dejection on some of the riders faces who definately got underscored at Rampage, for me showed how the scores are pigeon holing the events to the way the judges see the sport, which is not good for progression, as they had their time in the sun. I would like to see the current crop of riders pushing the sport in the way they see it, it would be far more diverse and forward, rather than every rider being forced to impress the judges in a scoring format that rewards a certain style/line/choice/trick.
  • + 0
 Point well taken, I would encourage any freeride mountain bike competitor to take the judging clinic and become certified. I agree past competitors, champions, pros. etc. do make the best judges as long as they can be subjective, fair and honest.
  • + 1
 Well spoken TopperharleyPT1
  • + 2
 "I would like to see the current crop of riders pushing the sport in the way they see it, it would be far more diverse and forward, rather than every rider being forced to impress the judges in a scoring format that rewards a certain style/line/choice/trick."

Whew, I guess it's a good thing that people ride outside of contests!

That's what contests are and if you don't like them then don't watch them and only watch edits and movies. It's a simple solution, really. Complaining about contests restricting progression (I really don't see that this is the case with Rampage seeing how much ground-breaking shit has gone down there) is like complaining about how DH racing is only about beating the clock and not about creativity or style... kinda silly.
  • + 2
 Scott-townes, Your right, I agree that this is what contests are all about, but do they have to be?
My comment was written in reflection of this event in particular. I do watch edits more than contests, and that is where riders ply their craft and progress. However much of what they train and ride for are contests like Rampage (gotta get paid!) so their mindset next time maybe too linear, to impress after scoring so low at the last event. Then we could end up with an amazing event like Rampage with all riders pushing very similar lines. I know that's unlikely, that riding for the cameras is what most of the year is about for these guys, but they all call Rampage as the big ticket event (except Pilgrim), crazy things have gone down there, I'd like to see that continue.
Let the riders have a say.
Lunchboxlarry, thankyou for replying, you guys are doing your job, and it takes an honest and thoughtful person to open up after some the negativity you have recieved. It is also a credit to you that you are listening to what we all have to say.
  • + 1
 To answer your question: Yes. The riders have plenty of say seeing how they are given gates to go out of and aside from a few pre-built features, they can go wherever they want. Remember, you cannot just do whatever you want on anything you want for this event because it has to be in a set space and this space has been used for 3 times now... minus one ridge that was taken out because it wasn't really used at all. There's only so much you can do with those limitations. For what it is, it's the best you're going to get for a contest. The only way it could continue, in your eyes, is if they moved the event to a different location altogether (remember how much different and exciting the Rampage seemed when they brought it back in 2008?) which seems highly improbable with NBC now on board. They like a working formula but I don't know anything for sure so we will wait and see. They could also start doing video contests like X-Games does for snowboard urban... which would be really tight. Spend a week in the Utah desert and rack up as many bangers as possible... now that'd be a contest.
  • + 1
 Sure, moving the contest area would be great, building new lines, new jumps, awesome. My thinking is that when they are building these lines, in a new area or not, they are doing so because it's how they see the sport, not just to get a high score for line choice etc. Which is where the event will be go if the judging format isn't addressed. So fundamentally, though i think the judging at Rampage 2012 has been explained, it should be re-formatted in future to avoid huge discussions like this. I think it matters not where the contest is held, but it matters a whole lot how that area is interpreted. How cool was it to see Gee Atherton place 3rd in 2010 with no tricks, just slick, fluid, fast style, well that's now never going to happen again, in terms of competition, which is where your point of not watching contests is totally valid. But i thought it great that someone's view of the mountain, executed perfectly, was rewarded. This was not the case in 2012, but would have been had the riders been judging.
  • + 1
 Well really they're building lines that suit how they see mtbing. Big mountain guys will hit big mountain, tech lines and slopestyle guys will aim for more pre-built jumps and jump lines... saying someone is never going to place again without any tricks is a bold statement as there are some insane lines that were built this past year and not hit. If they were cleaned, I guaranteeing you that unless someone hits something gnarlier, or the same and does a trick, it's going to score very, very well. Put it simply, they're building what they think impresses the judges most which is mostly how they see mtbing should be progressing... next level stuff. Hopefully next year some of the top guys won't be out of contention so they can show off what they weren't able to show you before. There's a lot of big stuff in store.
[Reply]
  • + 8
 "Cam’s line had one element that was definitely more difficult than any other rider on the mountain" - Okay, he did the Canyon gap and got best trick, I'm counting at least two.
  • + 1
 And about the line choice variety... I am pretty sure that nobody else was riding similar line... everyone else was hitting that anoing stupid sender...
  • + 2
 His LINE had one element that was more difficult than any other rider...
  • + 1
 the canyon got supermaned and suicided(are those even words?)back when the landing was not nearly as good!
  • + 3
 it would be "supermanned" and the landing got built up this year 10' higher and now 70'+ from the kicker. its huge.
  • + 3
 I understand your point about his LINE, but by only referencing his line, aren't they "putting all their eggs in one basket?" I have utmost respect for the judges, and it's kinda hard to disagree with Bender, but what they posted about their reasoning about Cam's score wasn't sufficient in my opinion.
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  • + 6
 Rule 3 is what screws it all up. " Rampage is a very unique comp on the FMB World Tour. It was created as a true test of “big mountain freeriding” and this is the way it will always be. A major factor in big mountain riding is line choice and it weighs heavily in this event."

Freeride and freestyle are two different styles of riding. FMB should be called freestyle not freeride...nothing freeride about dirt jumping and hitting ramps doing tricks...at least not what I consider 'freeriding'. So what they really mean for the Rampage is....pick the biggest line you can ride and backflip all the way down. Oh wait that would have been similar to Norbs run. Think it's obvious they do not know what the Rampage is about anymore by their judging. Is it a Big Mountain Contest, or is it a flipstyle contest on the big mountains? Pick one and figure it out. Ideally they should take it off the FMB tour and go back to what it was originally, just an event on it's own. Most of the bad ass riders do not even compete in the FMB tour, it's retarded.
[Reply]
  • + 6
 Man. You're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't. Here, we have a judge taking the time to illuminate what went on in the competition and everybody is dumping all over him. It's ridiculous. Lunchbox Larry, thanks for taking the time, energy and risk to explain the behind the scenes of how this is done.

The key to all of this seems to be that people are fundamentally not understanding the spirit or intent of the competition. The judge explained that within the scope of the rules, Norbraten didn't do as well as some of the other riders. You may like his run better than others, but within the scope of the rules, as defined, he didn't do as well on 1/4 of what was judged. I think his run was pretty amazing, but after reading the explanation from the judge, I can understand why it played out like it did.

It's like everybody went to the synchronized swimming competition and is now complaining that the high diver didn't score as well as he should have.
  • - 1
 Thanks dirktanzarian...well put
  • + 1
 yeah dirktanzarian, this whole norbraten thing has only shown the world the level of childish infighting mtb is still capable of. this is like green bay packers fans still screaming about the replacement ref game with the seattle seahawks. shut the f*** up and move on, this is sport not a damn soap opera kids go ride your bikes
  • + 1
 See... Man, this is hard as a member of this community...

@dirk -
I get what you're saying, completely! They set forth rules, and within them, they scored as best they saw fit.
I respect that... And I'm not sure why more people don't, but I think I may have it pinned down, at least on my end...
I do not like how the evolution of the event has progressed, in some sense of the way they mix the judging categories, and other little nuanced functions of the whole.
Frankly, this shouldn't be part of the FRWS, and as long as it is, there will be this kind of issue...

FOR MY PART, those reasons (without all the detail as to why I think that way) are why I believe that this wasn't all it could have been.
WITHIN the bounds they set, it's all good.

Two sides to the same coin. Maybe that's why some are actually upset.
[Reply]
  • + 5
 Cam Mccaul got robbed so hard! None of the other riders hit the Canyon Gap in there run when most of the field hit the icon sender and scored higher. With only one man hitting the canyon gap in competition he should of scored a lot higher. Also Cam sent a gnarly backflip stepdown in his 1st run
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  • + 5
 I would agree with what this judge is saying but, 90% of the people that were at the Reb Bull Rampage and could see how awesome his run was in person agree that he got robbed. I'll go with what the spectator are saying over the judges, especially when such a large amount of people agree.....
[Reply]
  • + 5
 Bender shouldn't be allowed to judge events that involve fluidity, style or tricks. He should only have been able to contribute to the amplitude scores. Haha

Also: Norbs got robbed
  • - 1
 Dude!!! If you ever meet Josh you would realize how far off you are with that comment. Also: Norbs learned what it takes to win a Rampage and I would bet you see a way better line from him next time.
  • + 3
 norbs learned what it takes to win rampage back in 2010. this year he came back ready to go for it and did not 1 360 drop, but TWO. he threw in the quarterpipe stepdown as an extra.
  • - 1
 Really !! do you know Norbs, do you think rampage is that easy you only need to go once then you can win it. Just a reminder 360 drops have been around since 2003.
  • + 0
 Norbraten came to Rampage in 2010, tried, but didn't do as well as he wanted to. He saw that it was won by 3'ing a drop and riding a ridgetop line, so he came back this year, did 2 360s a huge stepdown and the quarter transfer
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  • + 7
 only one podium position matters and they nailed it! stop bitching NORBS SURE AS SHIT ISN'T
  • + 1
 No, he probably isn't, but this judge has decided to address some concerns and that's a good thing.
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  • + 3
 You guys were locked in one ONE thing and because you "expected" something. You expected to see a certain range of tricks from Cam and you didn't get them. So you judged him down on it instead of taking a look at what he did do. He and Tyler had the best flow and speed out of everyone. If you are judging the four things EQUALLY then that means those scores along with how huge Cam went should make up for the "lack" of creativity you're talking about. Both of those guys flowed better than Kurt. I felt like he lost momentum in spots and his tricks weren't super clean.

Did he deserve to win. Yes. Was he 20 points better than some of the other guys. HELL NO.

There is an imbalance to this.

Maybe the low score/high score need to get tossed out. Maybe you have one judge for each discipline and then a wild card judge that does them all.

This has been a problem with red bull for a long time. It used to be that if you picked a line that the judges couldn't really see you got screwed. That cost a couple guys wins or at least podiums. Now you guys can see but you're locked in on one one thing.

It's like watching a half pipe comp where you can tell the judges are locked in on how huge you're going and not paying attention to the difficulty of the tricks.

So man up. Admit you need to make improvements and made some mistakes. Improve on it. I don't need another redbull oakley commercial. I want to see people ride and the set up from this year really just ruined it.
[Reply]
  • + 6
 How is line choice the most important when its the same percentage as the other three catagories?
  • - 1
 Line interpretation is more important at this comp than at any other comp on the world tour because 25% of your score is determined by it
  • + 3
 But its equal to others in THIS comp. The article makes it sound like 50% and i think thats about right... if you didnt do an awesome line the jacked your score
  • + 1
 look... its like grades in school... scoring 100% on a final exam that counts for 40% won't matter a hill of beans if you only got 60% for the assignments through the school year that counted for 60% of the final mark.40 + 36 = 76% final mark. That guy next to you, who scored 90% on the exam, but 80% on the school year work... well 36 + 48 = 84% overall.
  • - 3
 Well I certainly hope it doesn't imply that....do you not agree his line lacked the creativity and difficulty of some of the other riders? As I mentioned if he had 3 more points for line choice and 2 more for amplitude he would have finished 5th. Would he have still been "robbed?"
  • + 1
 are you a math teacher because i got none of that. may be why i am not doing well in school Wink
  • + 1
 No I'm not, but I am from an era when we learned to do math in our heads, not on our phones. I am perhaps biased though as I've ridden on XC group rides with chris twenty years ago back before there was any such thing as freeriding, or slopestyle. We have friends in common to this day.
  • + 1
 @deeeight this is a response to the many pretentious comments you have posted here. Just because you used to ride with Chris (I can't imagine why you felt that was so relevant) it doesn't make your opinion right. Also, don't characterize an entire generation based on your own beliefs or on the stupidity of a few people. I can do math in my head and don't rely on my phone as can many other young people I have met (far younger than me). If your as smart as you believe you are then you wouldn't be so quick to place young people into your ignorant stereotypes. Also its isn't just "...kids who aren't even close to the level of the riders on the tour or rampage" that believe Norbz got robbed. Pro rider's and industry guys have all said it as well. It doesn't take a pro rider to realize something was off in this years judging. Lastly, nobody is trying to take any of Chris' amazing achievements away from him by criticizing his judging. Being a DH champion doesn't make you a God whose opinions should never be questioned and blindly following somebody solely because they have been successful in mountain biking is immaturity at its finest. Your so quick to berate others but where are your achievements? Cause from what I can see your doing exactly what you detest so much, that is, whining on internet forums.
  • + 0
 yaa tell him deeeight is a barney dont listen to grandpa, dude doesnt know what fr is
  • + 1
 I said I might be biased as I've ridden with Chris Lawrence before and have followed his career long enough to actually know what his skillset is like. I could add I know, used to be friends with and rode regularly with Josh Bender's ex-wife but I have never met Josh himself, so other than video highlight reels I know nothing of his skillset from firsthand knowledge to comment on what his judging might have been. What's that got to do with this topic? Very little but at least I'm willing to actually disclose any possible biasing factors and all. Now then... who else in this thread posting comments like they're experts, has any actual actual contact with any of the judges or rampage riders who didn't place better, that might be biasing their posted opinions ?!?



Freeriding/slopestyle is actually a very small community, and most of it seems to be on pinkbike.

And as to my own achievements question... I've never really cared for racing or competitions. I used to race regional XC events at the sport/expert levels in the early 90s but every spring/summer/fall weekend for about three or four years I was doing 5 to 8 hour epic group rides that today would be considered Trail/AM and even freeride category stuff. Those rides were on some of the best technical trails in the northeast including doing some rather steep slope drops and roll ins and included amongst the regular riders attending were several national and international DH champions and racers and while I was often at the rear of the group due to fitness differences, I almost never actually cheater/easy-lined/walked sections to avoid trying to ride the ones the champs were using.
[Reply]
  • + 3
 Man this years judging was a toss up in some runs... which will probably not need be named... BUT can we all just agree that this year had some GNARLY riding from so many riders. The judging is only going to get harder and harder as every rider gets gnarlier and gnarlier! I'm just stoked to be able to watch these competitions and watch riders absolutely THROW DOWN!!!!!!
[Reply]
  • + 3
 So let me get this straight. Norbs' line "in the opinion of this judge, lacked creativity or difficulty"? He was one of 2 people to try a 360 in their run....sounds like he should get creativity points there. Second, he was the only person to land a 360 (let alone at least 3 others he landed) at rampage, period. So, as far as his line lacking creativity or difficulty, I don't buy it. Props to you guys for standing behind your picks though. It's nice to see a willingness to answer questions when confronted.
  • + 14
 I am not agreeing with the author, but you referenced a quote about line choice and argued for Norbs' tricks.
  • + 3
 @ megabyte : Norbs 360 were awesome, but mean tricks points, not line creativity choice point according to the judges explanation. You don't agree with the category for judging. according to your words, you prefer a simple line choice with a lot of style/trick by the rider which is creative on his interpretation of the line. Judges wanted a big line, with hard stuff and it was most important than tricks. The rider needed to be creative in his line choice. That's all, that's Rampage ! It like other exam > you have to be OK with the judges category. If you're not, you'll get a bad mark ! I have just a question : Were riders knowing well the judges category ? the coefficient between them ?
  • + 4
 Fair enough, my bad. Next question then. Why is Rampage judged differently than every other event of the year? Why does a crash at Crankworx produce a DNF but at Rampage it's all good, you can still score well higher than people who put together solid clean runs, crash-free. Why not play by the same rules all season long? Wasn't consistency FMB's objective?
  • + 7
 Because Crankworx is a bloody Autobahn compared to the Rampage Terrain, there needs to be a difference between them otherwise it will be all obstacles next year with some paved trails in between. This is Big Mountain Riding, please just leave it that way Wink
  • + 5
 that's exactly my point. Why is Rampage even part of the same series then if it's such a "unique comp on the FMB World Tour."? Why are dirt jumpers invited based on their ranking at these "Autobahn" events? Why not let rampage be rampage and invite riders that can hold their on on "Rampage Terrain"?
  • + 3
 " Rampage is a very unique comp on the FMB World Tour " and " big mountain freeriding " event. On the FMB World Tour, you are competing to be the most polyvalent rider. A cliff drop at Rampage is not a huge drop at Joyride. Judges wanted it different, and wanted to be different in there judgings. Again, they are doing rules, riders and spectators need to know them... Look at Enduro european season : you spend a lot of time solo again the clock. But one time in the year, you race against the other on the Megavalanche. Same pilotes, same traning required, same skill needed, but different rules. And if you want to be the best, you have to agree with it... This is the beauty of our sport : you can consider it on different point of view... don't try to destroy it !
  • + 4
 Personally, I think Rampage shoud be separated event, Like uci world champ is separated from uci world cup. Just to add an extra value to this event and respect the winner more, give him special tank top or smth to wear all FMB season.
  • + 0
 Judging Rampage has got to be one of the most difficult events for a Judge. However, they did get it right with some/several of the riders they scored but when most of the viewers (on location or not) and even riders say that Norbs got robbed you guys (Judges) should admit to that and take it as a lesson learned for next Rampage.

Oh yes and as a personal opinion ALL judges should have Rampage experience that is scoping/building lines, plus good knowledge and awareness of that type of environment since this is claimed to be a very unique event (to which I agree). Doesn't matter if the person has judged in Europe, Africa, Asia, Middle East, etc...
  • - 2
 Here in lies the whole object of the world tour...to decide the best all around freeride mountain biker on the planet. Not the best dirt jumper, slope styler or big mountain rider but the person who excels at all aspects of freeride mountain biking. Freeride mountain biking was pioneered by big mountain riding. Rampage was the first freeride mountain bike competition. The focus has shifted to dirt jumping, slopestyle and technical tricks however Rampage is about big mountain riding and big mountain riding puts more emphasis on line just as a dirt jump comp puts more emphasis on tricks. They are different animals, different comps require different strategies. Norbs strategy seemed to be take a less creative and difficult line and try and get more points for tricks and style, was he happy with his strategy? Was he hoping for better than top 10? I guess he will have to answer that himself.
  • + 6
 That's fine, I can respect the need to find the most well rounded rider, but the problem here is that riders are being left out because they either haven't competed in the FMB or don't have the rankings. These riders are left out in favour of riders who are willing to piss and moan publicly about how much they hate being there. Would you leave riders out of Crankworx in favour of Gee Atherton or Logan Bignelli because of his ranking at Rampage? No, because it's stupid. FMB should leave Rampage alone. Of course they won't because they've already got their fingers in that pie. A good point was made in the comments already. There is the UCI World Cup, then World Champs is a different event. They keep them seperate despite them being exactly the same as far as the actual riding discipline goes. FMB needs to pull away from Rampage to help it survive. It's not gonna help our sport when there's a quarter of the field that doesn't want to be there and doesn't belong there. Help our sport by inviting fresh new talent, I'm sure you know where to find them. They're dropping emails in your inboxes, begging to get in.
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  • + 2
 not hatin hear cause i can see where you guys are comin from but if you say that you want really gnarly lines and stuff why do you guys go out and build a bunch jumps? trust me i love the canyon gap and the icon sender etc but why do you give the options to pretty much jump the whole way down?
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  • + 2
 There will always be criticism in judged events, this is unavoidable. I believe the mutual pinkbike and other mtb websites consensus is the judges got it wrong. As was mentioned by others the score cards with the judging criteria needs to be made available for viewing during the event. There was a clear judging criteria and the judges had an obligation to follow it. In the next rampage this has to be made viewable after each run with a scoring breakdown or people will declare shenanigans and march the judges off the oakley sender...
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  • + 2
 Great to have the judges come on and address the community to back their decisions and criteria, for whatever reasons. While there is a common theme about 'Norbs got robbed' there is also a common acceptance that Sorge won... so despite being questionable the judging worked. From that, the discussion I believe, about judging, Rampage as FMB event, etc will only lead to making all of the events better, I hope. Without controversy, it would likely be business as usual.. with controversy, we'd hope that the event formats for FMB/Rampage and their judging/scoring will be discussed and evaluated to make it better for all moving forward into future events.

Aside from an all out win, which we agree he did not deserve, there is nothing that could be better for Norbs' career as a rider than how it has worked out. Nobody'd be talking about him all day, day after day if he'd gotten a few more points and got 5th. But due to the judging and how well he rode his line, everyone is talking about Norbs, which raises everyone's awareness of him and his riding.. and EVERYONE will be watching his lines closer in the future in this and everything else he participates in. Great rider, always seems to have a great attitude and stoked for him and stoked to see where he takes it in the future! A 5th place finish would be a 5th place finish, but being the guy who got 10th, who days/weeks/month later everyone is still talking about is priceless!! I would bet more people have gone back to watch his lines based on this controversy than any other run, except maybe Sorge's win.
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  • + 2
 Jeez, seems to me people aren't reading, saying how "Norbs pulled 2 360s so he should have scored higher in LINE CHOICE". Yes, the 360s were sick, and he should have placed higher, but the tricks he pulled had nothing to do with line choice, hence why he didn't get a higher score, they would have marked him up in trick score! Rant over
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  • + 2
 This article comes off like a sad attempt to save face.

It would have been better if you came out and said... we screwed up. We're sorry. This is hard. We'll make some corrections/adjustments for the future.

Instead you come out trying to blow a bunch of smoke and say... we're the professionals. We know what's best.

Sorry but EVERYONE knows the score here. Several guys got screwed.
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  • + 2
 What I don't understand is how the judge chose to attribute this to "a difference of opinion". While it is true that we all have different opinions and there will never be 100 percent agreement, when 90 percent of viewers, various big name riders (Semenuk, lacondeguy, soderstrom etc) and NBC commentators all believe that Norbs got robbed something doesn't add up. That's not a "difference of opinion" or "confusion", that's poor judging.
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  • + 2
 In asia, we'd call this corruption. But then again for the rest of the world, i guess you could just say the judges suck big time... Personally, as much as i like Sorge, his run was MEH.... right up there would've been CAMERON MCCAUL!!!!!(WRESTLER ANNOUNCER VOICE).... and of course KYLE NORBRATEN!!!!! How sick was those 360s?!!! The judges suck man!!!!
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  • + 2
 If line choice and tricks are different, did Bizet score really high on tricks for doing a backflip? Or was his backflip scored high because he did it on his line choice? If the latter, then Norbs arguably should have been awarded more points for 3ing off a cliff - not saying he should have been top three, but just scored more points. If Bizet's backflip was scored high because it was done where it was done (which is what I'm gathering from the chatter and the event itself), that establishes that, at least sometimes, line choice is affected by the say you ride it, not only in terms of amplitude/fluidity/style, but whether you can trick it. So, tricking it makes it harder. I don't see a way around that. Same with Cam McCaul's line - it may have been "tamer" - until he crushed an 80 foot canyon gap ON THE LINE. Doesn't that make the line less tame? And I don't think that gap was ridden last year with the same booter - that looked bigger than any other jump/gap on the mountain, including in 2010. In the end I can see where the event is difficult to judge and the results may have even surprised the judges themselves when they were added up. What's unsettling is that the vast majority of spectators apparently believe that at least some riders were scored way way too low. Not just a few points too low causing them to lose a podium, but like 10 points too low. That's quite a disparity, not only in points but in the differing points of view between the judges and spectators. I guess you have to accept the fact that it's a bit of a crapshoot and just deal with it. Still stoked for Sorge - I feel he has been underrated.
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  • + 3
 moving forward with this new judging criteria expect to see more goat paths and tech lines in 2014. at the same time not getting crazy points for being the only one to hit the 70ft gap still makes me scratch my head.
  • + 1
 The event is a LONG course though... so someone gets better points in one of four categories, for ONE section of the course...great...what did they do in the other sections, and what did they score in the other categories is what matters though. Redbull Rampage is NOT a best-trick wins all event. It never was. Its been said over and over, it was always about big mountain riding on largely natural terrain. Did nobody who's been complaining about the judging watch the video coverage of the week before the competition runs happened, of all the HAND construction of jumps and things... there weren't any heavy equipment involved moving dirt around like Crankworks. The course is laid out over a ridgeline and valley that's a couple kilometers long. Hell they needed a helicopter to be able to follow the riders in the finals over their run from start to finish... at crankworks, a couple cameras on booms/skyway cables is all you need.
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  • + 4
 So if you hit the Oakley sender, because others have hit it, you get marked down for lack of creativity?
Why the build the thing in the first place?
  • + 2
 Bingo! Maybe you would get even more points for difficulty and that is your interpretation. You have to ask yourself; will I get more points for difficulty for hitting it or will I get more points for creativity if I create something else? Maybe I'm better at hard stuff and I should hit it....or maybe I'm better at creating or picking a creative line down the mountain.....you have to play to your strengths, makes the whole comp more interesting and fun doesn't it?
  • + 1
 Must be tough to judge due to so many diverse styles of riding,
Rampage is a event no matter what super skills you have you need to be able to stitch a constitent run together while ticking all the boxes.
I guess it's who's can stay consistent, extra creative and have something out the ordinary.
I'm saying, if you just stick to what you know it's unlikely you'll get a win.
Comfort zones defiantly get pushed and who cracks the whip on the hill and takes control of everything wins.
I think there should be a judge for
The six things judges want to see not four.
Make line %50 and %10 for the others, this would make your line choice crutial for the win.
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  • + 4
 "You can't put all your eggs in one basket". Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Cam Zink do just that in 2010 with the 360 off the Oakley sender?
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  • + 2
 I think that one thing that wasn't mentioned is that a helicopter / camera position is completely different to what the judges were seeing... Some lines look gnarlier on tv than they probably are and some steep sh*t looks like a piece of cake. Don't judge if you haven't been there.
  • + 1
 I can't imagine anything on TV would make anything look easier... you never see it on any camera angle or perspective.
  • + 3
 Even the people who were there agree that the judges were off. Including Brandon Semenuk.
  • + 6
 the judges were watching through tv's, same as we were, but they had scoped some of the lines beforehand
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  • + 4
 Asking Bender to judge fluidity and style is like asking me to judge a hairdressing competition.
Doesn't doing 2 360s make a line substantially more gnar? NORBS WAS ROBBED
  • - 5
 Have you ever seen Bender ride?
  • + 3
 Yes- hence my comment dumbass
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  • + 3
 still bullshit but nothing is going to change. they say the amount, variety and difficulty of tricks, ok 4 small to medium sized backflips put the dude in the podium. BULSHIT.
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  • + 3
 The very fact that you felt the need to make a public statement attempting to rationalize your thoughts and results just re-emphasizes that they were terrible, and that you probably also know they were wrong.
  • + 2
 So if you were involved and there was controversy would you just sit there and say nothing or would you offer up some kind information or clarification?
  • + 2
 There wouldn't be this level of controversy if there wasn't an egregious mistake. If I were a 100% confident in my decision, then yes, I would sit there and say nothing, because I wouldn't be bothered by other's opinion on it.
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  • + 3
 I spent the first day with the judges and that means I was there and Kyle got robbed hard and the McCaul brothers got bad scores. Judging there, like Cedric Garcia said, horrible.
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  • + 2
 How much of the judging is done on video review? When officials in other major sports question a call even slightly its reviewed after the next play. Perhaps the judging should be done with an initial estimate based on the naked eye and their vantage point then followed up with a full video review. Release all judging numbers at the same time after all the athletes have finished their first run, with a breakdown of their score. If it was done this way then riders could change their game plan/line for the next run. For example Norbs ( who should certainly have been scored higher IMHO) could have picked a secondary line to improve his "challenging line" score if he so choosed.

I have no special knowledge and quite frankly would crack under the pressure of judging an event like this, so thank you to the judges for doing your best, but improvements to the entire judging format could be made.
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  • + 2
 Rampage is a difficult event in the fact that it is all about line choice, riders build their own lines and if they don't choose well, they have stuffed their result right from the start no matter who the rider is or how much we want them to win...
When people compete in competition its to see who's best, but without spectators to witness this, no body cares and it doesn't matter who wins, with this in mind surely a category such as 'visual impact, showmanship and flair' or something along that line should be incorporated, being awarded for winning the fans over and doing something extraordinary or having a memorable run, such as Cam McCauls big gap, Norbraten's 360's or T-Mac sending massive step downs all the way or Kyle Straight hitting the biggest jump in the event...

This years Rampage was judged too much like a slopestyle event, with riders who tricked jumps from top to bottom scoring much higher than riders who had unique (T-Mac) or big-banger (C-Mac) runs, too much emphasis on the slopestyle ideology of tricking every jump, this lead to most riders going down the middle and hitting the Oakley sender... which was the complete opposite judging of the last Rampage where Zink won with a completely average run all-bar one impressive banger stunt off of the nicely manicured Oakley sender. More points should be awarded for building up to a feature, having an impressive run and doing something big AND technical like a more natural drop or gap such as Semenuks transfer-drop or what would have been Brendog's canyon gap, points should be reduced for hitting the non-technical man made stuff without tricking, afterall it IS a big mountain event and riding north shore style verandas isn't very difficult, just ballsy!

.... oh and get rid of that pitiful quarter pipe next year!!!
  • + 1
 p.s. I love the FMB world tour and how it is legitimising freeride mountain biking, keep up the good work, judged events are always gonna have off-days, the riders sign themselves up for this!
  • + 1
 I totally agree with the exception of knocking off points for choosing the man-made lines. I'll be the first to say that I don't like the premade stuff that much at Rampage—Semenuk's transfer etc are what it is all about (I love watching riders build line around the structures). However, you can't build a pre-made structure for the riders to use and then proceed to say "yep knocking points off for using it." It would basically become close to rigging the event—though I guess in a way, that's already been done. Every rider on the podium used the Oakley sender... I think they should get rid of those structures all together.
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  • + 2
 Haha already 245 comments, this will surely be an endless and inconclusive battle (its f*cking pinkbike). As John Lennon said, "Let it Be"... The contest is long over! Not everyone is going to agree, EVER!
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  • + 1
 I was there up in the hills watching the runs and I think that Antoine Bizet should have won. Especially after taking such a bad crash and with his comeback run and backflips up in the chutes. With that being said I wonder how the judges were watching this. If they were just at the bottom watching cameras or actually seeing it with their eyes. From the top Sorges run didnt look like 1st place but top 3 for sure. I think Cam got robbed a little on his run as it was a pretty difficult line and a large gap. Too bad Zink couldnt compete.

To MTBIKER189 nobody did anything great off the icon sender they all just dropped it. Only one guy did a drop into the Icon sender then dropped it itself which was pretty cool. Mike Hopkins run would have been pretty dang awesome also if he didnt go so big and crash :/
  • + 1
 check out Hopkins amplitude ! wish he could have competed www.pinkbike.com/photo/8751125
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  • + 3
 Leave judging to the Olympics....line everybody up at the top and drop a gate, first one to the bottom wins, no pissin and moanin then.
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  • + 1
 Side note. HUGE props to all the riders. You guys all killed it and showed some serious balls. You guys went out there and worked your asses off for days to make the best part of the event the best... naturals. The riders. Huge props. Far as I'm concerned you guys are all winners. Seriously. GNAR!
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  • + 2
 the judging was absolute trollop....this explanation is a pretty weak attempt at trying to redeem yourselves..... Norbs got robbed, and the judges are to proud to admit it.... now nobody respects them
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  • + 1
 Thanks for the explanation in your own defense. You're still pretty clueless. You still f*cked up. Here's a question for you. How is it that even if a rider crashes in their run, they come out farther ahead than a rider with a solid run with nary a bobble?

It's been a while now & I can't remember the runs as well as before, but you guys give higher scores for riskier moves up top. Bingelli's flip up top was just on a double that wasn't big or gnarly. Cam flipped a big blind stepdown. A crash is a crash. Doesn't matter where it happens. If you guys knew what you were doing you wouldn't be scoring that way because a crash on a run is a blown run. Cam also hit the one thing on course that no one else did. I think there was just an expectation that he was gonna throw something large over that canyon & then you shit on him for it when you didn't get what you wanted. Here's another question: If you can't win with all eggs in one basket, then why did Zink?

Judging needs to be as objective as possible. It's why you have criteria to follow in the first place. I know it's hard to eliminate the grey, I know it's hard to remember every run & I know it's hard to examine every detail in such short time, but the more objective your criteria is to begin with, the less your own opinion is likely to screw competitors over.

Maybe you should try letting the audience judge it, or have half by the "pros" & the other half done by the audience & add them together. Doesn't one of those goofy talent shows do that, where you can vote online or with your phone?
  • - 2
 Other judged sports score runs with crashes up to the crash... figure skating, snowboarding, skiing, etc... it hurts your overall score because you didn't finish your whole run but you still get points for what you'd accomplished to that point.
  • + 1
 +1 freeride forever
  • + 0
 Zink had a solid run going in 2010 and then he spun a 360 off a 40 ft blind landing step down which is still one of the most progressive and ballsy moves in MTB history. Cam McCaul did put all of his eggs in one basket but it didn't work out for him....had he flipped or tricked the canyon he would have scored higher and maybe he would have won. His Canyon Gap needed more than just a straight air, 2 years ago they were pulling supermans and sucide no handers. If a rider nails every category with a 20 and then crashes and gets a 8 for fluidity his score is 68. If a rider is average in every category and gets 15s across the board he gets a 60. That's how you can crash and beat someone who doesn't.
  • + 1
 Well there Lunchbox... A whip is not a straight air and maybe you've got the credentials to know the difference but using this year's canyon gap and judging it from the tricks pulled on it last year is asinine as you know how it was changed.. Your suggestion that had he tricked that one move it could have taken the victory instead of 5th shows how skewed the judging was. Face the facts, you feel one way and the rest of the mountain bike community feels another. It was foolish to come on here trying to defend your position when you'll never change anyone's opinion of what we saw. I was always told, never argue with an idiot.. They'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.
  • + 1
 I thought he whipped it out a bit - it farkin looked cool as hell. Maybe I'm wrong, but I swear that thing looks a lot bigger/gnarlier than it did in 2010. Are you saying it is more or less the same size jump as 2010? Don't worry if you say it was smaller in 2010 I won't continue whining that Cam should have won etc etc
  • + 1
 deeeight, in any case I've ever seen that I can remember in any other sport, a crash in a run, puts that competitor into competition with the others who crashed. When BMXers crash at X, they've blown their runs. Crashing on the last jump would yield a greater score than crashing on an earlier jump (everything up to the earlier jump being equal) , but the run is blown if there's a crash & that's how it should be. A competitor riding over their head should be taking that risk. Pushing ones luck is risky & that's part of what the risk is supposed to be. I'm not saying that a run with nothing in it should beat a high ranking run with a crash on the last hit, I'm saying a crash should mean a subtraction of such a huge amount of points that where that rider places will be insignificant because all that they accomplished up to the crash can't compensate for how devastating a crash should be to a riders score. It'd have to be a revolutionary run before the crash to be placing in the top half (unless everyone's crashing). I get what you're saying, but I think you missed what I was saying, specifically the part about "a solid run".
[Reply]
  • + 1
 We could just say the riding was sick, the stokeness was sick, and judging is hard. Did you all get into cycling so you can watch pros shred all day and not meet your expectations??? Get over it. Get on your bike and go ride, if you want to watch and complain about the officials opinions/choices go watch some nfl or nascar
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  • + 1
 I can't totally disagree with the thought that Norbs was robbed but one thing to remember is that what RedBull broadcasts on TV and video isn't always the most accurate portrayal of what the lines truly look like. They are trying to show you the absolute best angles to bring more viewers to the event. How many of us have ridden an amazing line then saw a pic of it and had to justify how "epic" or how steep and "gnarly" it really was.
Being AT rampage and seeing it with your own 2 eyes vs watching it through the monitor isn't the same.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Thanks for taking the time to put this in place and knowing who the judges are is a bit of a relief, first things first. But while it does clarify some things, by your own criteria you still had some more than questionable decissions, with Norbs at top of the list: he was fast, he went to the right of the venue instead of left like the majority of riders so I'd say line choice should be higher, he landed everything smooth and had two 360, only one to stomp them all day, even Schley thought and said live that he should score higher, and we'll agree he's entitled to evaluate the riding. But also Doerfling and Lacondeguy got underscored on their first runs and Cam McCaul should've placed higher, after all he did an overall good line, fluidd and big, and was the only one to hit the gap.
  • + 0
 Why does going right side which in fact is the climbing trail and the "easiest" route down the mountain warrant a higher line score? This is the lack of creativity and difficulty that was missing in his line interpretation
  • + 0
 Because in the minds of these kids who aren't even close to the level of the riders on the tour or rampage, the line that looks better on television that their "hero" rides, is automatically better than what the people on the ground actually at the event, riding it... would possibly know.
  • + 1
 deeeight: I couldn't have envisioned a much more retarded answer, but since it makes you feel good I'll tell you I did had favourites for this, but two managed to knock themselves out of it (Gee and Brendog) and Martin crashed on both tries. Also, go watch Semenuk's Life Behind Bars last episode and see what Semenuk himself, Cam McCaul, Martin Söderström or Andreu Lacondeguy (plus the afforementioned legend Richie Schley) think about the judging for Norbraten.

Lunchboxlarry: not because of the difficulty, there Semenuk's or Berrecloth's would take it, but almost nobody else took it, so it's original. Sure, it was "easier" (if that exists at Rampage) than e.g. Vanderham's, but he did execute it with higher speed and fluidity. which should count, was different than most and he stomped two 360s, I think that should've guaranteed a higher end result. Probably not podium, but top 5 I think so.
  • + 1
 You're probably right that he should have scored higher, but what you are saying is so full of non sequiturs that I don't even know where to begin. Being the only one to take a line does not make it original, and definitely not creative. I don't think Norbs' run was unoriginal or uncreative at all, but it can't stand up to many of the other lines.
  • + 1
 Name one besides the "line is easy" that you're all focusin in, which is not true at Rampage but anyways, let's say "easier". All I'm saying is that while others were bigger and gnarlier his was the less used option, so it should give him some points. He went right whereas most of the rest went for the gnarlier side on the left or downright center a la Semenuk, but he charged it instead of braking so much like they have to do on the gnarlier lines. And anyways, line is just 25, let's say he got 10, the amplitude and fluidity were good and he nailed two 360s on the trick department, doesn't justify taking 20 points away from him (asuming he got around 10 on line, I don't think he'd get a straight 0).

And again, Semenuk (his words not mine about Norbraten's second run "he better get like 10 more points now"), Lacondeguy, Cam McCaul, Söderström and Schley seem to agree with me, so I can't be saying so much nonsense, it's not me "TV judging" where I don't see it as it is in reality.
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  • + 1
 all these comments pretty much sum up how stupid the majority of the pinkbike community is. If you took time to read the article you would find that the judges were perfectly reasonable in their scoring. I would love to see anyone of you get up there and do what they had done and be fair and consistent in your scoring. Also, if the judges listened to the crowd and changed their scoring based on how pumped the crowd was, how fair would that be? Not very, so stop the ridiculous suggestions.
  • + 2
 I guarantee you I and many others could be totally objective. I have no stake in any particular rider's placing, and if given proper criteria and time to prepare, it is totally conceivable that I (or any competent, intelligent mountain biker) could judge this event.
And as for fairness, let's use me as an example:
My favorite rider DIDN'T EVEN RIDE, so sure, I could have done EXACTLY what I needed to, and even then, I don't award points for crashes and repeated tricks.
Simple.
  • - 3
 All smack talk. Maybe next time you get your invite to judge you should reply. oh ya you dont get one do you!!
  • + 1
 Based on just a cursory glance at your recent comments, you're actually the one guilty of frivolous and useless abuse of others' posts and opinions.

Personally, I know that I am capable. You have no way to determine if I'm not, nor does commenting on "my next invite to judge" determine whither or not it is actually POSSIBLE for a mountain biking "layman" to do the same task these judges were assigned.
They were asked to judge fairly. They did so IN THEIR EYES.
We (many PB users, myself included) do not think that the judging was correct.
Which side gets the most publicity and voice? the judges, simply for the fact that the contest winners were awarded and lauded for those scores.
Which side is right? honestly... Only a combination would be close to 100%, and even then, personal opinion taints that!
We are commenting on what we PERCEIVE to be bad or incorrect judgement.

Finally, I'm sure I'll never judge anything in mountain biking, big or small, but that does NOT hamper my ability to comment, nor does it remand my RIGHT to do so as well.
You people want to stir up controversy and somehow come out sort-of-but-not-quite on the side of the judges, go ahead.
Don't expect the rest of us to stay silent with aggressive, attacking comments like yours and others similar...
Arrogance gets you no where, while reason moves us forward!
  • + 1
 dont want to be aggressive or combative .just think if you had tens of thousands of people telling you that you are terrible at your job when they have never done it themselves would be tough to take. seems kinda strange that so many people think they can do a better job than the guys that poured their heart and soul into the event and the judging of it. Comments come in defence to comments not aggression.
[Reply]
  • + 5
 Norbs was totally robbed. No doubt. Judges need their head's checked.
[Reply]
  • + 5
 i feel lost here, i need Protour opinion
[Reply]
  • + 5
 Cam McCaul gottt robbeddddd
[Reply]
  • + 5
 Snowboard judge definitely knows whats going on....
  • + 0
 i agree. has he ever ridden in a comp? i doubt it.
  • + 1
 I would agree that he doesn't know bikes, but I think where he comes in useful is coming from a sport that knows how to score going big and difficult. It is good to have a platform for judging to start from. Think of it as he wrote the formula for scoring and people like Bender filed in the elements to be judged. Not saying it worked here, and hopefully they learned something here and will have made changes if even slight for how they will score next time.
  • + 1
 It's ok to have made an obvious mistake in judging as no one is perfect but if they were to admit it, it would bring to question every competition they judge. Lets hope these judges learn from this mistake and don't repeat it.
[Reply]
  • + 4
 Norbraten was robbed for sure, plain and simple. If you're a judge and you still can't see that, you're lying to yourself.
[Reply]
  • + 3
 mccauls run lacked tricks.....pretty sure he flipped a step down and nacked a hip also he was the only one to hit the canyone gap
[Reply]
  • + 4
 I just enjoy seeing highland mountain being represented in the added pictures ( clothing and Judge )
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Most people I know including myself think the whole SRAM/RockShox 'Norbs was robbed' facebook campaign was one of the most shockingly unprofessional corporate moves in the history of the bike industry. dont show up to the competition if you are going to campaign the biggest public whining program anyones ever seen, grow the f*** up and have some respect for the event SRAM, nobody needs to hear you complain 'on the record' like that
[Reply]
  • + 1
 this judge should have left it alone. this write-up doesn't change anything, re-ignites the debate, and brutally tearsdown some epic runs. riders got robbed, try not to make it happen next time. judges, lay down your parameters, judge, and disappear. if the masses feel there was robbery thereafter, get new judges.
  • + 1
 This write-up clarifies the debate, gives riders props and explains the parameters...if the masses still feel there was robbery so be it. Sorry I'm not a magician I can't disappear....and there will be new and different judges next year. There always is...
  • + 2
 After watching the top 10 riders again, with no sound, I can't argue anyone is more than a place or two away from where I think they should have been, based on the criteria Lunchboxlarry is describing. The right guy won, and the runs and the drama were amazing. And people know they can't ride the ridge top to bottom if they hope to win a big mountain event. And Lunchbox has the balls to stand up to the critics and (I think) successfully defend the judging.
  • + 2
 sorry lunchboxlarry, I just meant that judges shouldn't have to explain themselves like this. it makes things messier than they need to be, especially in a forum setting. i think that judges should only be heard from when defining and publicizing the parameters of judging. as long as the parameters are applied evenly across all athletes, nothing else needs to be said. debates of the final result will always happen. good job this year.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 It seems there is no reference point to score the first couple riders until you see what the top riders can do. What about not presenting the scores until everyone has done there run to see what the bench mark is that way judges wont be scoring early riders low, in anticipation the the better riders to come will deserve a much higher score. So therefore after the first round of runs is done the early runs can be adjusted to be proportional to what is thought to be the run to beat.

Kyle put down a sick run early in the contest and seems he was scored low in anticipation of much better runs and then repeated the same sick run but a smoother and was still scored low. In order for the judges to correct themselves they would be creating a big odd gap in scores between the two similar runs. If thats not why the judging needs to be updated. opposite threes in on run. who else even stuck a three? i dont think Darren even did!
[Reply]
  • + 1
 We were there all week, I disagreed with the results as did a lot of people. I think line choice should be more about riding an original line than a line with a bunch of pre-built obstacles. I also think that riders should get docked points for riding a line that another rider and his team built e.g. Sorge rode parts of line that Semenuk and his boys built, and I believe it was Bizet, but I could be mistaken but someone else definitely rode Lacondeguy's line. I know because I talked to Luis and he was pissed that he and Andreu spent all the time building the line to have someone else ride it. I disagreed with the judging from the previous Rampage as well, but I don't put on the event so I don't get to define how it is judged. My biggest disappointment is that it seems to be turning into a "biggest/most tricks competition" instead of the who has the burliest best most original line down the MT. Zink won but rode a line that numerous other people rode, and while he may have thrown the biggest trick, that is only one of the 4 criteria. Line choice should have been a lower score since so many people rode the same line. Other riders threw more tricks on that line, others rode it faster, and more smoothly. So in my opinion the only thing his run had was the one big trick. I will continue to be a fan of the event, but I won't be paying for gas and tickets to go watch it in person anymore. Most people will agree that CG is one of the coolest most chill dudes in the sport and even he called out the judges, and he is a past Rampage winner.
  • - 1
 And I think that is the point of the article, that line choice interpretation is important at Rampage not just the tricks....because Norbs did two 360s and nobody else did people think he should be the winner. That's not what big mountain riding is about and that's not what Rampage is about....
  • + 1
 I'm sorry but rampage is not a NWD movie, just because you shred some scree doesn't make it more creative or interpretative.

What did you just say about Kyle's two threes?!? 2010 was WON because of one 360! Nothing else spectacular but one massive 3. Yet here you are saying that's not what big mountain riding or rampage is about, so again, why did Kyle do so poorly..?

When past winners are saying your wrong, maybe it's time to face the facts and not just keep saying everyone else just doesn't get it.
  • + 1
 I guess line choice, from what I am gathering from the article and the comments, doesn't necessarily mean that you get more points for riding an original line that no one else is riding, If the line is "harder" in the judges opinion but you ride it slow, and a ton of other people ride it you will get a higher score than if you ride like hell down an "easier" line that no one else is riding. I guess I was thinking that "line originality" was a bigger of a part of line choice than it actually is.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 The judgind list was definetly good, and I do understand what they say, about Rampage being a hard event to judge. But take Cam´s line. He nailed everything, went huge for amplitude, and was pretty original, and hell he got best trick with that crazy backflip. Him at least should´ve scored much higher.
But the event is over, and it is true with judging it is very objective.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 You'd think that with all the shit that's going down with Lance and the USADA and UCI... these "Judges" would be a bit more careful with their discrepancies in judging so that they wouldn't come under such scrutiny of fire for their inaptness in judging. If just ONE person bitches about this, then perhaps maybe... but a whole slew of ppl right down to those who were really there, to the announcers, to the riders and then US, SURELY then something MUST BE WRONG! So my question now is, why in the hell isn't the relevant authorities checking into this? If RAMPAGE does come back next year, they better get a whole NEW line of judges or somebody's gonna get bitched slapped really hard.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 wow. went back in time to read this post and holy shit are people pissed off about something so relatively unimportant. We'll all be watching again next year and will no doubt be disagreeing on everything again. Norbs will probably end up top 5 and Lacondeguy will win the whole thing.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 I still really think that not just rampage but all slope/dirt contests are judged wrong. Instead of having a rider do 2 runs were he could just bang out one good run and take the win mtn bike contests should adopt the same kinda of format that bmx has were each rider does 3 runs and their overall score for the contest is made up by the combination of their 2 highest runs. That way a rider can't just bang out one run and call it a day.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 The Judges screwed up... plain and siple and no "story" about how they did their jobs well will cover over the stink of this year Rampage results. The Shitty thing is these guys (the riders) are ALL so good that it's like you're saying they're not by disagreeing with the results. I'm not saying that at all, every guy who dropped in is a winner in my book, but the top 3 were just SO out of place even by their own judging standards... SO now we get an article that's basicly saying "Nuh Uh!!!! We did it RIGHT SEEE!!!!!"... Doesn't change the fact that Norbz and a few others got robbed.

Also, pointing out that it was intended to e "like big mountain skiing" and that "Slope-style came along more recently..." is just a cop out. The sport has evolved, clearly your judging hasn't.

Hell maybe Bender was just mad cause people were landing things he's been trying to ride for 15 years and gave them low marks... They should have had Robby Burdon judging, he's got more "big line" skill and runs under his belt then all the judges put together. The Little pogo-stick has been doing "Rampage-ish" stuff since before Rampage existed.
  • + 1
 I agree, but not with the Bender part - that Armageddon he rode was what it was for his day, and really not very good at all. Judging sports are always full of bias - how can they not be?
  • + 2
 Yeah I was just taking the piss about Bender. The guy's not an amazing rider, but he's fit and he sure does more riding then jis usual huck to bike explosion Wink Also, he did help form the event. I just think they need to put as much effort into the progression of the JUDGES as they do the course each year. By their own words they're judging based on what "freeriding" WAS in 2001 and this whole new-fangled "slopestyle stuff" is just confusng things for them. Time to go back to the judging drawing board IMO.
  • - 2
 I guess you missed the point about the Rampage being true to it's roots as big mountain event and that it actually is a great way to pick a true freeride mountain bike champion...some one who can ride and excel at all disciplines of the sport.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Lunchbox Larry, what you've just wrote is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever read. At no point in your rambling, incoherent, response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber having read it. I award you no points and may God have mercy on your soul.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Cam, Tyler & Norbs all rode a ridge line down and were exposed to a very heavy wind and some of the "more tech lines" seemed to be sheltered from the wind.

I am of the opinion that tricking the ridge line in the high winds equalled the technicality of the steeper more tech lines that were down drainages and sheltered from the wind.

It is only an opinion but I don't think the judges factored the difficulty of doing a huge trick in high winds enough.

Regardless it is ALL subjective...hopefully the judges will learn as well as the riders going forward what factors such as wind should affect the judging criteria.

Just glad it is a annual event now!
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Underlying problem here is that for 2010, people only remember Zink's 360, and now believe that is solely why he won. It follows, naturally, that we now believe Norbs should have been up there, not specifically winning, but up there, because he did lay down two big 360s in original places on difficult, blind drops. I think the error lies with historical judging - we as a community now expect a difficult trick in a difficult place (or in this case 2) to score very highly, to the point that we are blind to the line choice influence on score.

I personally believe Norbs should have had a higher score, he did the tricks over original features on his own line; in addition to their technical difficulty. However, I don't think particularly it would have done much, just moved him up a few points maybe into the 5th or 6th spot, same goes for the McCauls, they should have had a couple extra points on their scores each.

Can anyone explain why Vanderham scored so highly, I really didn't take anything away from his run, it seemed very blend-in.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Something is obviously wrong with the judging system if it has created this kind of turmoil. Hundreds abd hundreds of die hard fans shouldn't be upset just so 4 people(judges) can have their way. I know you didn't plan for it but maybe rethink the system for next time!
[Reply]
  • + 2
 They have a guilty conscience; just making excuses for bad judging.
If they thought they judged properly they would not feel the need to make excuses.
  • - 1
 This article is not an excuse it's an explanation. As mentioned earlier, if you were involved in a controversial matter would you sit there and say nothing or offer up some kind of clarification, explanation or information?
  • + 2
 Just giving a possible reason for why this explanation was given.
Never heard of judges feeling a reason to 'explain' themselves unless they messed up...
Hence the reason that this explanation is probably an excuse.

Basically I am arguing that the judges by acknowledging a mistake by responding to criticism with an explanation.
The judging could have been better ==> experience != good judge
[Reply]
  • + 0
 You had to be there to experience the riding, the trails (or lack of trails) to get a whole new perspective on the riding/judging. I think the judging was spot on, Norbs could have had a higher score, but maybe not enough to crack into the top 3. I think the judges did a good job.
  • + 1
 yeah... very few commentators were AT the event... most only got to see what footage happened to get video coverage from an aerial perspective from the helicopter. You don't really see what line is steep or difficult to actually ride when watching on a tv, or as norbs did, a CLIMBING section that was part of the easy way down the mountain that any sport level XC rider could have ridden.
[Reply]
  • + 0
 Thanks for the detailed explanation, from our point we had five of the best judges in the World all from different walks of life. We all know it's hard to please everyone so do your best, which you have done and we all look forward to next years Rampage!
[Reply]
  • + 0
 Proven models from snowboarding:

1) Fluidity and Style 25%
2) Air and Amplitude 25%
3) Tricks 25%
4) Line Choice. 25%

Well damn, we could never have come up with somthing as complicated as that!
  • + 0
 This is the Rampage scoring formula if you want to know more about the FMB tour judging please refer to this article

www.pinkbike.com/u/Lunchboxlarry/blog/Who-be-the-Judge.html
[Reply]
  • + 0
 I honestly don't see why "Tricks" is a category at THE premiere "Big-Mountain Freeride Event"... There are other venues that hold that ability to a higher regard,a nd frankly, as much as I like to see four backflips in a run, it just isn't necessary here...
If you're going to include many riders' abilities to do those maneuvers, but COMPLETELY IGNORE other riders who are wickedly smooth and fluid, then make "Tricks" part of "Style" and separate it from "Fluidity".
Tricking down that crazy-ass mountain should not be mandatory, and frankly, if someone is smooth like fresh glacial spring water going down their technically demanding run, that's FAR more important than throwing down a "move", as it were.
Oh, and in reference to the four backflips, they weren't very "smooth", IMO.
  • + 1
 Because if there weren't any tricks, it would just be a DH race on a short course where you can kill yourself if you screw up a drop. Makes for a good highlight reel for the folks who go to nascar races (or used to watch bender try and land things)... but otherwise isn't much of an interesting event to watch for most fans... and without people watching the event, and seeing sponsor logos and things, there'd be no money to put the event on, and pay the salaries of all these riders, who let us face it... do not have regular day jobs, unless they race on factory teams and work for the brands themselves. Logan for example is the manager of the KHS Factory DH team, so besides purses at events he draws a steady check from KHS.
  • + 1
 Not REMOVING "Tricks", but making it part of "Style" instead.
Is that not acceptable?

"Tricks & Style"
"Line Choice & Creativity"
"Amplitude & Air"
"Fluidity & Performance"

That makes a hell of a lot more sense, given that guys like Gee go there to win. If tricks are not just integral, but required, that's gonna make his day harder, isn't it?
If, as the judges say, that a standout run must have all parts, why the HELL do they invite riders who don't have ONE WHOLE CATEGORY in their bag?
[Reply]
  • + 2
 Kyle did not deserved -20 points than Sorge!!
Period!!
Get a group of Pros to be Judges to and mix the two judges points.
But do the current Judges dare that ?
Smile
[Reply]
  • + 0
 The judges explain the criteria and yet you all still find ways to claim certain riders should have been scored higher/lower based on your own criteria.

Since kyle's run seems like such a hot button I'll offer up a critique of it from the actual judging criteria.

Big tricks and style on the second halfI his run gets big score.

Riding the basic ridge line that has been done a hundred times prior for the first half of his run with no tricks and no unique line choice whatsoever cuts his score in half.

He did half a banger run and half of what at this level was basic.

The rampage finals venue was essentially two ridge lines on the left and right and a bowl down the middle. That bowl off the start is so steep an gnarly and still funnels into the same bottom section that just about everyone could ride from the ridges.

If you didn't go down that from face you had to have something pretty mind blowing lower down to make up for lack of line choice and big mountain riding.

Notice the guys who did well all came down that face and the guys you wish had done well wasted half their runs riding the ridges and then had sick lines down at the bottom (the only part many of you seem to remember)

Taking risks at the bottom never gets the same score as taking risk at the beginning or the whole time.

Big mountain flow, line choice, creativity, amplitude and tricks all combined into a score.

Ask your self, did the runs of Kyle, Tyler and Cam have all of that covers top to bottom? Nope

Did the top 4 have thatcovered top to bottom ? Yes

For example Surge had dropped a clif and thrown a suicide no hander down the gnarly front face all before Kyle, Cam, and Tyler were still riding the ridge lines on their runs.

I think a lot of people even the competitors lost site of ALL criteria being judged.

Cheers
[Reply]
  • + 1
 I love all the people wanting to let the "audience" judge........hehe, BS. Way too much crappy TV making folks think they qualify to judge people. Let the Judges do thier jobs and if you don't like it, don't watch..........
[Reply]
  • + 3
 So by the last part's if the article, Gee should've placed lower than second in the last years rampage.
[Reply]
  • + 2
 I Respect the judges And i understand the difficulty of their Job... But i think Wil White deserves a Better place in Rampage....
[Reply]
  • + 2
 Well I think it's rad that you posted an article about this, everyone needs to just forget about it and be happy for sorge, next year right?
[Reply]
  • + 2
 If the comp. is judged like Redbull's Cold Smoke then there couldn't possibly be any problems.
[Reply]
  • + 2
 The riders of the rampage say the ratings were bad, even knowing they would not win.
[Reply]
  • + 2
 norbraten run was fantastic, seing him in pos. 9 is the proof there was a mistake somewhere..
[Reply]
  • + 2
 ummm yeaaa this is cool and all but Norbs still got robbed.... by far the sickest run
[Reply]
  • + 1
 One guy (i forgot his name) pulled two backflips and had a harder then Sorge. Yet he was judged significantly lower. Who did Sorge blow!?!?
[Reply]
  • - 1
 Would like to know how many of the people throwing stones have ever judged any type of sporting event ?? One of the hardest jobs i have ever taken on . we all have to respect the difficulty of the task at hand. Easy to criticize while whatching it on tv. Try watching it from a windy, dusty and hotter than hell knob sticking out of the Utah desert. All part of the event. Well done Larry, you and the judges in my book did the best that could be done!!!
  • + 1
 oops meant to neg prop you, and thanks for the kudos!
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Toma no cu. Bando d juiz filho da puta. Semenuk cai e faz quase a mesma pontuação do Norby. Vai tomar no cu! Ladrão filho da puta!!!!
[Reply]
  • + 3
 You should add point "5) Stoke!" Might change a few things Big Grin
  • + 4
 I'm talking about all the buzz around Norbs position for example... Everybody was stoked on his run and would have put him higher! Listen to the other guys out there might not be such a bad idea! Someone could invent the online voted "pinkbike community favourite rampage competitor" or the "non judge favourite" or something like that... Smile just an idea!
  • + 2
 jeah livevoting should be a goal in combination with the judges! i think nowadayse we have the needed hardware for livevoting without have to wait too long for a score.
[Reply]
  • + 2
 Replay the video,let pinkbikers judge based on their opinion. Let's see what will the people result list show.
[Reply]
  • + 2
 You should have not even wrotten this article you opened a pandoras box which you guys created.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 No matter how much explaining is done, this has been the worst judging the Rampage has ever had. Norbraten & the MacCaul's got robbed. Period.
[Reply]
  • + 2
 Instead of trying to justify how you came up with the results it would have been way easier to just admit you were wrong!
[Reply]
  • + 1
 I think it would be cool if Rampage were rider judged. Like judged by riders in the contest. That would be sick, I am not sure why they don't.
[Reply]
  • - 2
 i feel like people didn't even bother to read this article. yes his run was sick, he pulled some difficult tricks and was smooth throughout. but as they said his line wasn't comparable in difficulty or creativeness compared to other riders, and you have to do well in all to get the top score. i'll admit they all looked scary as heck from home and i couldn't tell the difference, but it's got to be far different when your there seeing first hand what the riders are doing.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 im just saying that so many of the lines went into the icon sender while cam went for the canyon gap.
[Reply]
  • + 0
 Norb's did get robbed! Also scoring with a decimal scale sucks! how do you break down a stunt or trick to get a 13.2? What ever happened to the 1-10 scoring scale?
  • + 0
 There is no decimals...it's 4 marks out of 25 for a total score out of 100.
  • + 0
 Sorge won with a 86.75 so there is obviously decimals. www.pinkbike.com/news/Red-Bull-Rampage-2012-Results.html there's the link with the scores.
  • + 0
 When the judges score the runs we are not allowed to use half points or decimals however when the 4 scores are averaged out sometimes there are decimals.
  • + 1
 I think he meant there's no tenth of a point stuff...they didn't score in less than a quarter point which is essentially 1/4 as a fraction. You could score a rider a 14 and 3/4 (14.75) for example, but not a 14 and 7/10ths (14.7) or 8/10ths (14.Cool . That's consistent with other sports that are like the freeride world tour. Its done to minimize math errors... as its reasoned most judges can do fractions math faster than decimal math. But on computer printout of the scores... you don't type a fraction in as a fraction, you type it in as a decimal number.
  • + 0
 @lunchboxlarry Gotcha, that makes sense.
[Reply]
  • - 2
 Its interesting to see a late response from judges. I can understand the selection of the judges (except the snowboarder).
It makes sense to have Josh Bender being the line difficulty judge.

However what confused me was,

"Lastly and most importantly is the choice of line. In a big mountain comp this is worth 25% of your score"

In a comp with 4 judging categories 25% of the score is an equal amount? So his explaination of Norbs line 'difficulty' and 'creativity' had equal weighting to his 'tricks'!


Norbs and Mccauls Robbed!
  • + 2
 Rampage is the only comp that allocates 25% just on the LINE interpretation no other comp on the tour has this formula.
  • + 1
 Bander should be the judge of how hard a fall people take and that is it... Guys are riding things that have stumped him for MANY years so I'm not sure why he's an expert in "line difficulty"... Get Bourdon, that guy knows about hard, big mountain lines..
  • + 2
 Funny thing with that is the "snowboarder" (who also mountain bikes & rides moto) has more knowledge and experience when it comes to judging than the rest of the judges combined!!! Certified judges-yes, Experienced in the bike industry-yes, Most experienced judges.......not even close!!! How many contests did you guys judge this year (Not including Paul)? Also ironic how the only contest on the tour that used a different formula then every other stop on the tour is the only one that has had this kind of controversy.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 I think it should be scored by the viewers next year. Some kind of voting on Pinkbike will decide who really won.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Great article and some great discussions ensuing... thanks for the write-up.
[Reply]
  • + 2
 Norbs and the Mccauls got robbed!!!!!!
[Reply]
  • + 1
 How do I go and spectate the event? Like can I just show up and watch or do I have to be invited?
[Reply]
  • + 2
 I think Norbs got robbed though.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Bearclaw got robbed in 2010 if line choice was the critical element.........just sayin.
  • - 1
 His line was great but his tricks and fluidity were lacking that year...
[Reply]
  • + 1
 This stuff means nothing Norbs got robbed!!!!!!!!!!!
[Reply]
  • + 1
 never knew this event was judged by Bender
[Reply]
  • + 1
 explain the judging any way you want, you still fucked it up
[Reply]
  • + 2
 Cam and Norbs got robbed
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Where can you ser the video of norbs run?
[Reply]
  • + 1
 I'm gonna say what nobody said before.... Norbs got ROBBED!!! Period!!!
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Robbed!!!! the judges only cared about the icon sender
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Kurt Sorge should have won
[Reply]
  • + 0
 Why can't we all just sit back and watch some SICK AS F**K riding ?
  • + 1
 bottom line... we all have favorites. And it's judged. If it was in a video and it was all just video segments.... NOT a comp. Then you wouldn't have this issue. Any time an event is judged SOMEONE is gonna get shorted. The problem is when there are no check and balances. I think looking at the way it's done in the olympics is a wise choice. Toss out the low, toss out the high. Eliminate that judge that is hating on one person or favoring one person. But that's how it is. That's why so many folks get to a point that they don't like comps. It's been happening in snowboarding FOREVER. How many comps did you see Terje ride in after the olympics kicked in. Craig Kelly, farmer, T.Rice, Peter Line... etc. It's gonna happen in mountain biking too. You'll start to see guys like Cam do less and less comps and more and more video. That's why this issue NEEDS to be talked about. I don't want to loose those guys in the comp scene and have it be a bunch of guys doing the same exact line. Variety is good for the sport.
[Reply]
  • + 0
 gavlaa read the article, bender was judging line choice...
[Reply]
  • + 0
 Paul Rak s the man!
[Reply]
  • - 1
 judges are wack
  • + 2
 jealous they didn't ask you to be a judge ?
  • - 1
 nah too busy with ur daughter shutup grandpa
[Reply]
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