Liv Hail and Pique - First Ride

Nov 14, 2016
by Rachelle Frazer Boobar  


Unless you've been having a bit of a snooze over the last few years, you'll have noticed Liv Cycling being incredibly active in the women's market. They truly believe in the idea that bikes change lives, and have done a great job at selling their lifestyle and bikes via that message thus far. But the landscape for the female rider has evolved, and Liv recognized that although they were doing a lot of things really well, they weren't offering the kind of bikes that would attract more serious, aggressive riders. For 2017 Liv are cleaning house and bringing their off-road line up to speed with current trends. The 140mm Intrigue and the 100mm Lust are no more, and the 160mm Hail and the 120mm Pique are the new kids on the block. And they are being bold in saying that these are the bikes that the women of the world want.

We were invited to the Arizona desert to face off with the red rocks and cactus and the get a taste of what these two new models have to offer.

Liv Launch in Sedona Arizona November 2016. Sterling Lorence photo.
Liv Launch in Sedona Arizona November 2016. Sterling Lorence photo.

Liv Hail Details

• Intended use: trail / all-mountain
• Rear wheel travel: 160mm
• Wheel size: 27.5''
• 66º head angle w/ 160mm fork
• Advance Composite Carbon or Aluxx aluminum models
• Metric shock sizing
• Boost hub spacing
• Sizes XS - L
• 27.75 lbs (Hail Advanced 0, size S)
• MSRP: $3,250 - $8,250 USD (complete).
www.liv-cycling.com/hail

Liv Pique Details

• Intended use: XC / trail
• Rear wheel travel: 120mm
• Wheel size: 27.5''
• 70º head angle w/ 120mm fork
• Advanced composite carbon or Aluxx Aluminum frame models
• Metric shock sizing
• Boost hub spacing
• Sizes XS - L
• 23.49 lbs (Pique Advanced 0, size S)
• MSRP: $2,375 - $8,975 USD (complete).
www.liv-cycling.com/pique-advanced




The Hail

These days, women are riding harder than ever, and the growth of enduro racing has led to more riders regularly searching out rough, technical trails. Liv recognized that although successful, its beefed up Intrigue SX lacked some of the features that a 160mm bike should offer. Liv Ambassador and former world champion, Leigh Donovan, was pushing for a true 160mm bike, and customer feedback urged for the same. So Liv sat down and thought hard about the bike they wanted to build to truly fill the void.

They honed in on body geometry data gathered from the Global Body Index of what type of rider they thought would be using this bike, then applied their findings to a blank slate and their 160mm bike geometry wish list. They then added rider feedback from Leigh Donovan as well as Lindsey Voreis, and went through three frame iterations before settling on the final product.

The Hail comes in two Advanced Composite carbon models and two Aluxx Aluminum models in four sizes, from XS - L. There are four complete bike option, with prices starting at $3,250 USD and going up to $8,250. Each Hail has 160mm of front and rear travel, Boost hub spacing, a 1x drivetrain, a dropper post, a 160-130mm travel adjust fork, 800mm carbon handlebars, shorter stems and some geometry decisions that are a little different to what's currently trendy. More on that below. You'll also notice that there's not even a dab of pink or purple on the two advance Hail models - the company's colorways are evolving and I'd bet on a few fellas being just a wee bit into how this bike looks.

Liv Launch in Sedona Arizona November 2016. Sterling Lorence Image.
Clean lines and not a spot of pink in sight.
Liv Launch in Sedona Arizona November 2016. Sterling Lorence Image.
SRAM x01 Eagle and the new trunnion mounted Deluxe shock.

Hail Geometry

The Hail ever-so-slightly bucks some of the trends we see currently in this category of bike. At 66º, the head angle is a touch steeper than some of its gender neutral competitors. Liv claim that by making the bike less raked out in front, it will be easier for women to maneuver up and over obstacles while still using a shorter stem. Also different is a higher than average bottom bracket height. Liv felt that having a higher bottom bracket would allow the rider to pedal over rough terrain with more ease and less pedal strikes. Liv bikes have also been classically quite compact but designers have extend the top tube to make it more in line with current trends.


Liv Hail Geometry

Suspension

Giant has been using their Maestro suspension platform since 2005, but have significantly updated the system this year. By employing a trunnion mounted metric shock, Liv has lowered the leverage ratio. They were also able to move the linkage closer to the bottom bracket, resulting in a slight lowering of the bikes' center of gravity. In addition to these suspension changes, Liv claim Maestro's braking and pedaling performance have also been improved.

Liv Launch in Sedona Arizona November 2016. Sterling Lorence Image.
The metric rear shock uses a trunnion mount, and the upper link is constructed from molded carbon.

Also new is the upper link that is now constructed from molded carbon, and weighs half as much as the previous alloy link did. This link is also 50% stiffer, which should help with lateral stiffness and improve suspension performance.



The Pique

In 2015, the 100mm Advanced Lust, Liv's most expensive, top-of-the-line mountain bike, was the best selling bike across all of Giant and Liv. Take a moment to soak that in. A women's bike... The best selling bike.

The Lust's replacement, the Pique is dubbed as an 'aggressive XC' bike. With 120mm of travel, it's a bike Liv believe is light enough and fast enough to take to your favorite XC race, but one that can also handle a decent amount of rough terrain. The Pique features the same technologies as the Hail - Advanced Composite layup and Aluxx Aluminum versions, Maestro suspension with the new advanced composite link and metric shock sizing. It also comes with Boost hub spacing for added stiffness and 1x drivetrains across the board.

Looking to repeat the success of the Lust, Liv felt very comfortable about spec'ing a high-end fully blinged out Pique. There are two Advanced Composite models and two Aluxx aluminum models that will sell for between $2,375 - $8,975 USD. There's also an SX model with a 140mm fork for those riders who want get a little more rowdy.

Even though this is a different beast from the Lust, the Pique features the same 70-degree head tube angle, a lower standover height, slightly shorter chainstays, and slightly more stack to accommodate a 120mm fork. The BB is also a little higher for more pedal clearance.

Pique Geometry

Liv Pique Geometry

Liv Launch in Sedona Arizona November 2016. Sterling Lorence image.
It's single chainrings all the way for Liv; the Pique Advanced 0 comes with SRAM XX1 Eagle.
Liv Launch in Sedona Arizona November 2016. Sterling Lorence image.
The Pique's internal cable routing gives the bike a very clean and tidy look.




Riding the Hail

The Hail I was aboard for this test session was the top of the line Advanced 0, which comes loaded with a RockShox Lyrik RCT3 dual position fork, a RockShox Deluxe RC3 rear shock, SRAM X01 Eagle drivetrain, SRAM Guide Ultimate brakes with 180mm rotors, Schwalbe Magic Mary tires and an 800mm carbon DH bar mounted to a 50mm stem. At 5’6”, Liv recommended I try the size small, but I ended up switching to a medium later on during testing which I found to be slightly more comfortable.

After warming up a little and getting a feel for the desert terrain, we jumped onto the rocky and fast switchbacks of the Chuckwagon trail. The first thing I noted was that this bike felt much lighter and easier to push around than an average 160mm bike. The flowy trail threw out a few interesting climbs, loose corners and rock gardens to navigate, and it was here that we got quite a good introduction to how the Hail climbs. As promised, the bike handled itself quite effortlessley, and as we climbed up the red rock ledges the bike felt very light and balanced. Switching the fork into 130mm travel mode improved the already impressive climbing capability noticeably, and it was much easier to move my weight over the front of the bike to crest the tough pitches that were being thrown at us. I really felt no need to switch the rear shock into trail mode, and when I did I felt as though the setting would be best used for long sustained climbs rather than the punchy rock gardens of Sedona.

I would have loved to have more time on some serious descending trails with the Hail, but we had to make the most of what time we had. As we rallied down Slim Shady, a fairly fast flowing trail with a couple of rock gardens thrown in for good measure, I got those few important glimpses of how this bike really behaves. As I pushed the bike through its travel the words the phrase 'stable yet playful' came to mind. One thing I did note was that with only 100mm of drop, I couldn't get my seat down as far as I would have liked, and although the standover height is quite low, it was difficult to achieve the riding position I wanted. In spite of this, I was left with a big smile on my face after riding that trail and a positive impression, but I'm itching to get it onto some familiar trails to understand what the Hail is really made of.

Liv Launch in Sedona Arizona November 2016. Sterling Lorence image.


Riding the Pique

For our second day of riding I was fitted onto the top-of-the-line, size small Pique, which comes with a RockShox RS1 Solo Air with OneLoc Remote, a Deluxe RT3 rear shock, SRAM Eagle XX1 Drivetrain.

Diving into the same trail we began on day one was a whole new experience aboard the Pique. Loosening up and relaxing into the ride took a little getting used to, especially knowing that photographer Sterling Lorence was hiding behind who knows which tree waiting to grab our star shots. It didn't take long, though, to figure out that the Pique is a very fun little weapon.

The Chuckwagon trail, with its dried up river beds, ledgy climbs, tricky turns, punchy ascents and fast little switchbacks was really the perfect testing ground to see what a bike intended for ‘aggressive XC’ could handle. The bike felt very light and stuck like glue as we meandered our way up the trails staircase-like climbs. As we rolled through a section of loose, swoopy trail the Pique was quick and snappy as we rallied around the corners. I was fully prepared to deal with a flexy feeling front end, but that sensation never arose. The RS1 felt really plush, and plenty stiff. Although having a lockout remote for the RS1 was cool there was no way I needed it on these particular trails. I also felt no need to switch the Deluxe shock into trail mode either. Perhaps that would be different if I were on any sort of death climb, but thankfully our test lap didn't include one of those. The Pique definitely felt capable of handling the chunky Sedona terrain while still remaining very nimble and eager. I asked Liv if they would ever bend their 27.5 rule for a 29er XC race bike, and they did acknowledge that it's a request that they hear from customers, but for now, they aren't saying too much...

A few hours on each bike was just enough time to start getting acquainted with these two new rides, but it was certainly a promising start. It's great to see Liv shaking things up and aligning their bikes with what the modern trail rider is looking for. I left our test rides with a smile on my face, and I think any women who haven't paid much attention to Liv in the past might want to check out what they are doing now.

Liv Launch in Sedona Arizona November 2016. Sterling Lorence Image.

126 Comments

  • + 62
 Can we vote to get teal and fuchsia banned for a few years? I know all the marketing focus groups love the two but I'm getting nauseous.

Edit: Or at least make the two get a divorce. Why can't fuchsia hang out with orange once in a while? What's wrong with teal and silver? Let's try something new.
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  • + 9
 No more teal and silver/white apparel though, mind you.
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  • + 4
 This is Yeti-ist.
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  • + 8
 @j-t-g: actually, teal and silver are two of the coolest colors temperature wise. So if you are riding in desert or any of the southwest states (or any place besides BC and the UK) these colors will keep the rider coolest.
Besides black, red and colors in the red spectrum are warmest. Plus, colors like red, yellow attract bees.
(Same with any print design that comes from Troy Lee)
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  • - 1
 I'll build a wall around those colors if you "upvote" for me. Sorry, still too soon...
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  • + 2
 You said fuschia.
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  • - 7
 @bmar: Have some respect for out President to be, eh?
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  • + 8
 @bmar: And make the 1980s pay for it!
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  • + 2
 I just like baby blue--fastest color on the planet. I agree it goes much better with orange, green, or white
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  • + 6
 @vandall:I leave in Greece and I would gladly exchange my teal & fuchsia cool Nomad frame for a "hotter" but way more decent coloured frame. Strangely when I was riding a black frame I didn't feel any warmer at all during the summer.
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  • + 1
 @bikegreece: I was talking about clothing not frames.
BTW, my Nomad is all black. Black everything
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  • + 1
 @vandall: at least my clothes are all black!! :-) :-)
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  • + 51
 800 mm wide handledars on a XS womens Bike? Sounds a bit too much?
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  • + 23
 Riders should be cutting down their bars to the right size anyway when they get a new bike, so why not make them nice and wide to give people plenty of options? 800mm bars are the same thing as DH bikes coming without pedals and certain versions of the Subaru BRZ coming with steel rims - people are just going to rip them off/modify them so why make them too specific? Honestly I don't see why more bikes don't come with 800mm bars - in skiing etc people get measured up for certain lengths of kit so why are people on bikes happy to just run whatever the manufacturer specced?
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  • + 14
 @medievalbiking: In theory you are right. In reality a very big amount of people is scared to change anything on their bike because for some weird reason they feel like it's a bad thing and they think it will either ruin the bike or make it lose all it's value. Also a way too big percentage of the bike shops doesn't know enough about bikes to customize things like this or simply wouldn't care because it's extra work that they don't get paid (directly) for.

Thereby I think it's important that bicycle manufacturers make the products as close to 'finished' as possible. Exceptions being made for companies such as Trek and Kona; who are very selective with the bike shops they collaborate with and only collaborate with bike shops who they know that they can and will give all the extra needed service to the customer.

Giant on the other hand (at least here in The Netherlands) is focussed on mass selling. Any shitty / mediocre bike shop around the corner, without any decent knowledge about bikes, sells Giant. Thereby you can expect that those shops won't give the service of noting and explaining the handle bar width and cutting it to the correct length for the customer. Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with the bikes that Giant makes though.
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  • + 35
 Most people dont even takeoff the little plastic protective covers that come on every LCD screen and button on electronics. They are not going to hacksaw their handlebars.
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  • + 11
 If you're afraid to cut down your bars because it might make the bike lose value, you're probably also afraid to ride it down a trail where there are features that could cause you to crash and scratch the frame, so you probably won't notice or care if they're too wide. Razz
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  • + 2
 @ryetoast: probably not because of resale value, but because they're "afraid I'll wreck it", which is legit. I remember the first time I cut a steerer tube on a fork I had the same feelings. The only thing that made me go through with it was how much smack I've talked about bikes where it sticks inches above the stem Smile
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  • + 11
 If you're afraid to cut down a few MM off the bars on a $5k carbon bike, you shouldn't be on that bike. There isn't a person in existence buying these bikes that can't have the shop or themselves handle a basic part of bike setup like bar length, and providing them with the ability to do so, vs all the 720 and 740 bars of the recent past, is a step in the right direction. May women do in fact ride with wider bars.
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  • - 9
 @atrokz: One of my friends complains about how wide his bars every other ride, and still hasn't cut them down because he's too hesitant he'll get the wrong length or screw something up. Assuming the end user will cut their bars is foolish.

I think bikes should be optimized for their intended riders/usage when they leave the factory. Then a good bike shop ideally gives picky/knowledgeable customers a choice of stem length and bar rise/width.
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  • + 6
 @ridenwc1: Foolish? Not the right word to use esp coupled with anecdotal evidence. This is standard practice for any LBS worth it's weight, and having been a wrench money for years I know this all too well so feel free to call up your LBS and ask if they will cut the bars if you bought a $5000 bike..... If you aren't offering it, your service on a bike worth thousands is shit. It's actually foolish to think there's a single mold for people, especially women. It's the reason bikes have sizes, and bars are provided longer. there are women running 780mm bars without issues, so rather than listening to male commenters on PB, Giant listened to it's customer base to stop making asinine assumptions about what women need. I see the point with regards to thinking people will just leave them, but the fact remains that for the most part they don't, and they wisely spec'd wider bars on their enduro offering. Take a look at what Mosley, who is only 5'4", runs 735mm bars. Carpenter runs 750mm bars, Rachel Atherton generally runs 775 wide bars. so there's too much of a range to spec a bar that people won't need to cut anyway.
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  • + 5
 I agree that 800 mm is probably too wide for an XS bike, but I recently switched my 5'7" wife from riding an 80mm long stem and 740mm wide bars to a 31mm stem and 800 mm wide bars and she greatly preferred the setup for Bootleg Canyon and Gooseberry Mesa trails. She said she felt more natural on them and I could see she was manualling and descending better than before. The shorter stem was probably the biggest benefit, but the wide bars are working great for her and I doubt we'll need to cut them down.
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  • + 8
 I think all bike should be specced with 800mm bars and then allow for them to be cut down. Nothing more annoying than buying a brand new bike and having to immediately replace the bars/stem.
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  • + 2
 If they are buying the bike a good shop then things like bar width would be addressed and modified if needed - catch is a good shop
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  • + 8
 You guys are complaining about 800mm bars but you're cool with 70 degree head angles?
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  • + 0
 @medievalbiking: because it's a complete waste? The only people who truly fit a 800mm bar are north of 6'
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  • + 0
 Yeah, 800mm is probably excessive for a woman's bike, especially for smaller women. I have a friend who raced mt bikes for the US at the XC world championships a while back. I was blown away when I used to ask her about her bike and what she liked. Her response was always something similar to "I don't know. I just ride what they give me." It was super amusing. She wasn't trying to protect her sponsors from stuff she didn't like. She truly didn't think about it. Thankfully, she had a team manager that got her on stuff that worked for her. Now, if she can be like that while racing at an elite level, the average woman (or man for that matter) can most certainly not know any better and just think that's what she should be riding, especially if the shop doesn't push it. Hell, Richie Rude rides a 740mm bar. Oh yeah, she finished top 15.
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  • + 3
 800mm handle bars a sick though
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  • + 5
 @poozank: I am 5'10" and ride with an 800mm bar. Everytime I hop onto my other bike or others bikes the bars feel silly narrow to me. I am a big fan of the wide bar stability, even with the compromise of having to weave a bit more through narrow trees.
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  • - 2
 @cdmbmw: you might have some long arms but anatomically 800mm bars don't fit most people.
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  • + 2
 @poozank: What's the basis for that statement? Assuming you can bring the bars in close enough, and you're talking about a 160mm bike where aerodynamics don't matter, how would you know you have bars that are too wide for proper bike handling and comfort?
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  • + 1
 @Marcencinitas: ergonomically, most people have an ideal range. But that range is skewed by variables and should be adjusted accordingly, so he's technically correct in that 800mm bars aren't suited for most people (the average is quite short). However, some of us are taller and may have long reach which along with shoulder width are the two main factors controlling what bar length is ideal. There's no logical reason to not offer the widest bar and allow people to cut accordingly, if needed. Anything less, is simply selling us taller/ape-armed people short. Pun intended.
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  • + 2
 I just pissed my pants imagining how someone would look who's short enough to pick an XS frame but has wide enough shoulders to warrant a pair of 800mm bars...

Human bulldog anyone?
[Reply]
  • + 1
 @Marcencinitas: think of it like bench press or a push-up in order to exert maximum force and have your muscles properly engaged you need to maintain a certain form. If you were to compare the width of hand placement on the bar for a short person vs a tall person you would find the tall person has a wider grip but it's proportional. Same logic applies to bars. If you ride 800mm bars and you are 5'6" chances are you are not aligned properly for your muscles to engage correctly with the bar.

Everyone thinking they need an 800mm bar when they are short is just ego tripping.
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  • + 1
 I'd rather buy a bike with bars that are way too wide than way too short, but I will say that here in the northeast, 800mm bars on a trail bike are downright hazardous due to, you know, trees. I hope local shops cut them down on the demo bikes, or test riding them will be miserable.
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  • + 2
 @ryetoast: I hear you but 800mm on a S womens bike is like including a 40 inch belt with 32 waist pants, it's asinine.
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  • + 1
 In the mean time Adam Brayton rides DH at mach something with 740mm bars..
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  • + 12
 @Protato
Working in the bike industry ist still amazing how much Carbon Chain - and Seatstay break in 1 or more seasons.
Nowadays ist got nothing to do with cost, but simplicity and reliability.
Trying telling your Client that after a Crash that the carbon chainstay will cost him over 1000 Dollars or more..
In my book Aluminium chainstay always win.
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  • + 3
 And why do they fail so often do you think? What is the reason?
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  • + 1
 @goroncy: What fails? List the exact part..
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  • + 4
 My last few trail bikes and DH bike are carbon, I live in Colorado and beat the crap out of them. Zero issues
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  • + 1
 @bman33: chain and seat stays too? Like evils, santa cruz, intense and a ton of other brands, they have all had a small issue with cracking those too parts more often than usual. Some companies a lot more than others. It happens. Thats all. Sometimes its from like a fatality wreck and others its because the bike fell over on a rock.
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  • + 2
 My trail bike last year was a carbon Transition Patrol (even a day at Whislter), this year a Santa Cruz Bronson. 4 enduro races, few good crashes. Other than scrapes, no issues. DH bike was a Wilson with Carbon seat stay/aluminum chain. 3 Whistler trips and 20+ days at Winter Park, Steamboat. No problem. New DH is a V10 carbon...full frame. No issues at all.

Only issues I have seen were the 2014/2015 Yeti's with really thin carbon on the rear. They have remedied that will a different layup to my understanding.
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  • + 1
 @chillrider199: 2015 Devinci Wilson, Carbon seat stay cracked, rear of the small member (runs parallel to the main member) on the non-drive.
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  • + 11
 Looks like a Giant
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  • + 6
 Oh my god it actually is
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  • + 6
 So no 140mm bike from LIV for 2017f.? Not sure if that is a wise move. For the Alps 120mm is on the short end (esp. for inexperienced riders), while 160mm is a bit excessive. Not offering a bike in the 140mm travel 'sweet spot' will leave many female riders in Europe either under- or overgunned,
[Reply]
  • - 3
 Every girl in my area riding a 140mm Liv said it wasn't enough bike to push harder trails or keep up with boyfriends and husband's at bike parks.
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  • + 11
 @treekilla: I understand a 160mm bike was missing, but why get rid of the 140mm one. There's Anthem > Trance > Reign, there should also be Pique > Intrigue > Hail.
[Reply]
  • + 2
 They have a Pique SX, with 140 up front, 120 in the back. Not quite the same but fills the gap.
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  • + 7
 @treekilla: These women you speak of must be world cup racers becuase I rock a trance, 140mm, with a fox 34, and although Id like to have a bigger bike I thrash on my Trance. The trance is MUCH more capable than you might think.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Hail Advanced bikes all come with a 130mm to 160mm front fork. I have this type of option on my 2015 Trance sx 140-160 Pike. Brilliant and it's like owning two bikes in one.
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  • + 2
 @alsorl: Actually riding the bike in 130mm on anything other than uphill will feel terrible as the geometry will be way out of wack. The 140mm Intrigue was a fine descending, slightly shorter travel, machine.
[Reply]
  • + 0
 @mtbrider007: you just steered directly opposite of what I was saying. You are a man.
@krazykraut that definitely makes sense, to me. Maybe giant is trying to push girls into one or the other form of mountain biking, enduro, or xc.
@dannygoesmtb you and mtbrider007 must be buddies, completely not getting what I'm saying.
[Reply]
  • + 3
 In all honesty, there's nothing keeping women from just getting a Trance either. Unless you're super tiny, there's not that much difference between the "Men's" and "Women's" models. Nothing you can't customize to suit your needs anyway.
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  • + 7
 "Agressive XC" the bike has road bike geometry
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  • + 2
 For us tiny people, it would be nice to know what crank length they are doing, whether you can get a dropper post down far enough inside and what height above the bottom bracket would be (the giant posts have a huge collar I thought meaning even if you can slide the post down fully when you drop the seat down it's still quite high). Also, they go on (and on) about pedal strikes: this isn't something (with shorter cranks) that has ever bothered me, whereas getting on and off the damn thing is hard so raising the bottom bracket seems a crazy idea.

Whilst 160mm XS enduro bike seems exciting, lugging 13.5kg up a hill on my back doesn't seem so attractive. I guess it's the price you pay for stupid sized wheels on tiny bikes.
[Reply]
  • + 2
 The large Liv Hail geometry is not that girly! I would love to test this bike. Such a shame that Giant is not selling frames. Nor they have normal threaded BB. The new suspension kinematics is extremely promising though: linkagedesign.blogspot.de/2016/08/giant-liv-hail-275-2017.html
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  • + 4
 I'm a man and I don't care about the fact that it's women enduro specific ... I want this bike, NOW (the hail (same as a reign..))
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  • + 2
 I would say maybe even better. It has Giant's updated suspension platform while the Reign doesn't.
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  • + 3
 @RedBurn You've got permaboner for giant..ever cocked your leg over anything else?
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  • + 0
 @Earthmotherfu: a kona operator a long time ago.. but then i bought a Giant... these bikes are magic
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  • + 1
 The L geo looks perfect to me as a guy, like a Reign that doesn't suck as much at climbing.
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  • + 1
 Not as agressive geometry for descending however
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  • + 1
 The one issue I have with the reign is the lack of lateral stiffness in the back end. This new linkage may just fix that...
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  • + 4
 If the new Reign is anything like that Hail, I'd struggle to look elsewhere for a trail bike!
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  • + 13
 not seen a transition patrol then
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  • + 1
 Such a shame they didn't release it this year
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  • + 1
 My wife rode the Hail and right after rode the Turner RFX, 40 days later, she has a RFX.
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  • + 2
 @poah: Too expensive. The top of the line Trance is less than 5500 € here in Slovenia, while the Patrol costs about 5 grand for the second best model in aluminium. Let alone Canyon and their eagle equiped aluminium Strive for 3600 €.

Transitions are nice, but just way too expensive for what you get. Sadly.

Though i am still claiming i'd buy a Reign/Trance with a 0 spec in aluminium in a heartbeat. Don't get why the best ALU bikes costs the same as the second best carbon bike, yet barely has any better specs (well, the ALU version has Sram drivetrain and brakes, so in that regard it is in fact miles better if you ask me, but still...).
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  • + 1
 @Primoz: stop looking at componets - once you get to a certain level the difference is really quite small. Break or when it wears that eagle kit and it will cost a fortune to replace. The spec of the patrl 2 is pretty good though although I'd probably go for the patrol 3. I built my suppressor from a frame, wouldn't buy a complete bike again.
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  • + 2
 @poah: unless you have insanely good connections in a store to get good prices on the gear, buidling a bike piece by piece is not cheap. My Reign 1 cost me a bit over 3000 € and would, taking into account a 2000 € frame price and the component spec, cost over 5000 €. I'm happy to 'pocket' the 2000 | difference.

Yeah, Eagle is expensive, but so was and is 1x11, if you don't go bargain basement with NX and GX. So not much of a difference here. And dunno, i'd prefer a carbon front triangle (though i certainly do not need carbon) and Eagle with Guide RSC (or Ultimate) brakes compared to 1x11, Guide RS and completely aluminium bike for just a bit less money. It's just not reasonable. Even though the Patrol is REALLY nice. Give me a Patrol 2 for 3500 € and i'd think about it, since that's the price of a Meta AM V4.2 with 1x11. An Eagle equipped version costs 4000 €, while, like i said, a Canyon is 3600 €. Sadly i am not paid enough to be able to spend a third more for a worse spec (with no gains in other places to boot).
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  • + 1
 @Primoz: stuff from previous bike I put on my suppressor with just a few extra bits like cable etc. building a bike from a frame when you already have a bike isn't that expensive.

If you can get the bike with the spec you want then yeah a full bike makes sense but I couldn't. That and the suppressor was frame only lol Going up to 650b would have been too expensive even with a full bike
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  • + 1
 @poah: That is a point, but it's hard to sell only the (old) frame, chances are that the wheels won't fit, maybe the seat post, etc. So totaling up, by having problems selling the frame, having to buy a few new components, having some older components on the new bike, i think it's much easier to buy a new complete bike. And cheaper.

Don't tell me about the spec, i'm all in when it comes to Sram. Luckily the Reign 1 was more or less a dream spec in that regards. And Meta AM V4.2 and said Strive are as well (well, i want a metric shock for the new bike, so there's a problem with the Strive). The Transitions, both 1 and 2 (1 is actually PURRFECT, bar the carbon hoops which are not needed and needlessly raise the price, at least on the aluminium version), are also practically ideal spec wise.
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 @Primoz: I couldn't have been luckier with the frame swap - everything fitted
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 @bman33
Sure man, I totally understand. Its not like I'm saying go Aluminium or go home, at the end of the day its all down to personal preference. I am currently on a carbon frame/alu seat/chainstays and the trails I ride and the days I get in a year its just makes more sense for me.
It also doesn't mean that full carbon bikes are better that hybrids..just saying.
I mean even the aluminium chain stays have issues...
Like i mentioned, all down to personal preference.
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  • + 1
 Looks great! I can't comment on how much better these bikes are for female riders compared to the general Giant bikes. But for this kind of money I expect them to take their customers seriously. My girlfriend now only rides my 140mm fully which despite being a nice safety net, at about 16kg is also a bit uninspiring for a 58kg woman. So hopefully we'll see some positive viscious cycle here of better women specific bikes, more female riders hence larger market, more and better bikes etc... As for the colors, it is nice seeing some alternatives to blue and pink. Though I think my girlfriend wouldn't be bothered by that Pique. I got a 20" blue mtb for my daughters with pink fork lowers and saddle. My six year old is riding it now. With jeans and jeans vest, cool T-shirt, skate helmet and a big grin she still looks proper wild on that.

Only concern would be reading that the saddle couldn't get any lower as the dropper post had limited travel. Of course that could be sorted with a different dropper. But could the whole unit be slid down low enough in the frame so that the saddle in the lowest dropper position is really proper low? Otherwise if you can't move your body around properly, it is definitely going to kill the fun and make for an unnecessary unstable scary ride. But I expect you can slide the dropper all the way down to where the top bushing meets the seatpost clamp, can you?
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 Just FYI and not trying to be 'that guy', but 'virtuous circle' is the positive form of vicious circle.
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 As for the dropper, you can slam it. Note that sometimes you can fit a Switch with more travel into the frame, it just depends on how low is the lowest you'll have your seat (the post/frame size caters to someone who will slam the post). Also, the Pique will fit a longer post than the Hail because there is more seat tube above the rocker pivot. I'd say that if you have 50mm of outer post exposed you can try a Switch with 25mm more drop.
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  • + 3
 @iamamodel: Thanks for that and good to know. Apparently Rachelle only ran into that issue because she set the post for a certain upper height. With only 100mm travel available, that must be what you see in the picture. She wasn't going for full XC height there. So yheah, the travel must be the culprit. 50mm of outer exposed seems like a better fit if that gets you at least 125mm travel. Considering the price of these droppers, it would be nice if Giant would spec it properly right away.

Thanks for expanding my vocabulary Smile !
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  • + 1
 My girlfriend runs a Liv Lust 100mm travel for training, and races an Anthem SX.... impressive bikes no denying, and were snapped up after finding great discounts on both bikes.... The Pique looks equally impressive, especially with the top spec, i wonder if the same level of discount is going to find its way to the market, as the mrp seems a little heavy.....
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  • + 1
 why did they use that crappy rs1 fork....well at least there cheap now i suppose. there's no way that fork feels stiff and you need your head checked if you state that in an article when others state that it feels unnervingly flexy which is why the massive price drop occurred i suspect.
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 @mtbrider007
There are alot of different facts separating the brands/models. Whatever the travel...
Head angles,reach,bb height,specifications even go as much as the whole carbon layout for Liv Bicycles is different over Giant. All these aspects are to be take into consideration because all of them affect the ride quality and feel of the bike.
Liv is by far the only brand that is really pushing the whole woman bike scene...by just painting a Trance a different color isnt what its all about.
Liv do woman specific bikes. They do their research and homework. PERIOD!!
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  • + 1
 You are all missing my point. CONCEPT CONCEPT CONCEPT. It's the same CONCEPT. Its still the meastro suspension, its still designed by Giant and it's a bike that comparable to the mens trance/trance sx. Its not exactly the same, obviously, and no one is claiming that it is exactly the same. It is in concept the same as the Giant trance/trance sx. Analogy for Giant and LIV: Quicksilver marketed beach/surf wear. Women weren't buying quicksilver as much as they would have liked. So to solve the issue they created Roxy, which is still owned and operated by quicksilver. LIV has some female engineers that are apart of giant. They are the same company marketing to a different audience.
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 Branding bikes to women is a good idea. Smart move, because you know women would probably be like, "well I want a woman's bike" if they were choosing between two similar bikes.
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 the new carbon upper link is so nice. shame it didn't went to the 2017 Reign
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 The Reign stays the same for 2017, it's the third year of the design (which is a normal lifecycle in biek industry based on what i'm seeing). So a new Reign will be out for 2018 with the metric shock, new upper link, etc.
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  • + 1
 New one for 2018, you'd have to imagine it'll be just like the Hail.
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 I think my Reign is one of the best bike I ever had and I don't think that the bike need to change. just that new upper link looks so strong and I am looking to buy the carbon frame. so if I want the new link I have to wait until 2018...
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  • + 1
 @JSolman: I think something along those lines was said in the 2017 Trance/Liv preview article here on Pinkbike, but has been changed since (if it was here - somethng along the lines "Liv showed their Hail, which is basically the new Reign")

@mudmandhbrazil: I'd prefer a steeper (actual) seat-tube angle. And a larger diameter for the seat-tube.
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  • + 1
 @Primoz My bet is you'll see very similar geo to the current reign, with the addition of the updated link. Alot of people have issues with the Reign being too linear, and lateral flex in the rear end. The new link should slove both this issues. Two birds stoned at once!
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  • + 1
 @JSolman: If anyone has problems with rear end stifness, they should try a Meta 5.5 from around 2010 (i had a 2008 model before). I see NO flex in the rear of the Reign Big Grin

But yeah, i don't see a reason to go any more extreme with the geometry, like i said, maybe make the actual seat tube angle a bit steeper (have less of a bend), increase the top tube length to bring the seat to about the same position in regards to the handlebar as currently (for people with more seat post outside the frame). Doing this the rear end could be shortened by a few mm, to keep the wheelbase in check, but it's not needed, the CoG is quite far to the rear as is, at least when seated.
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  • - 2
 Humans come in different sizes and having vaginas or penises isn't the deciding factor.
This is all quite pathetic really.
Just another way a real bike shop(not a giant store) has a problem having the right stuff in to sell to the customer.
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  • + 6
 wait...so youre saying that the average size of males is not greater than the average size of females?

or is this a "does gender really exist" thing?
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  • + 1
 They are actually really cool looking womens bikes. I'm jealous us mere men can't ride them!
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 Most of these new bikes today are so close in design you cant tell them apart anymore...
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 Not a fan of the RS1 at all.
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 At least 50% of the two shown bikes here aren't pink... :S
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 When Giant quit 29er's, i quit giant.
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  • + 1
 Forget the term enduro. All mountain is and always will be Badass!!!
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 Yep looks like a mountain bike
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 Looks like a Reign
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 There were comments that it's actually the 2018 Reign we're seeing here. Hope not, i prefer the shapes of the current one to be honest...
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 To be clear, i don't want the bike to stay the same, i'm just saying the current one looks better to me. and i'd like the new version to look even better than the current one. Which the Hail does not achieve.
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  • - 1
 am I the only one tired about this "build for women" stereotype pinkwashing?

Jesus Bike industry...Grow up!
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  • - 3
 are these frames actually any different from Giant bikes?
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 They most certainly are.
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  • + 0
 LIV is Giants brand. It is their womens specific version of the mens bikes. They dont market LIV as Giant brand though. They are simply trying to market a different brand even though its the same.
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 Yep..their smaller..
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  • + 4
 @mtbrider007: actually there's some reasonably significant differences. Eg 65 degree head angle on the Reign vs 66 on the Hail
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 @patrick-marsh: Sure sure, but its basically the same bike. Same concept, same suspension design, same materials to build the frame. I know the details and sure its "different" , but marginally. It's like saying that the difference 0.5 degree head angle change makes the 2013 and 2014 bikes different bikes. Not so. In that case it was an improvement. In the case of the hail it sure does have a steeper head angle, but Id still consider it the same bike as the trance sx, but for women.
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 @mtbrider007: missed again: trance is 140mm rear, hail is 160mm
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 @mtbrider007: They are completely different frames a specs. Although owned by Giant they do some of their own research and produce different products.
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