Power, consistency, and modulation are three elements a good braking system should deliver, yet many seem to fall short when it comes to combining all three. SRAM unveiled their Guide brake range two years ago featuring a new lever design adding increased consistency to the already abundant power and modulation of the original 'Trail' series brake it superseded. It was a turning point for riders who quickly began to realize that SRAM were back in the braking game with something special to offer.
The Guide Ultimate was launched a year later and elevated things once more with a new caliper design that not only enhanced the Guide's capabilities but also addressed one of its remaining shortfalls; bleeding and service. With that in mind, SRAM will be rolling out the S4 caliper, originally only available on the top-end Guide Ultimate brakes, down through the range covering the RSC, RS and R models. Here's the lowdown:
SRAM Guide Details• Intended use: Trail / Enduro / Gravity
• Updated reach adjust
• New lever blade
• Bleeding Edge technology
• Improved heat management
• Increased consistency
• 4-pot caliper
• GUIDE RSC: $205 | €224 | £172
• GUIDE RS: $154 | €168 | £129
• GUIDE R: $133 | €145 | £112
• Available June
•
www.sram.comOur Guide Ultimate review:
pinkbike.com/sram-guide-ultimate-brakes-review
MENTIONS: @SramMedia
you guys may love your guides but i cant stand mine. they feel cheap and weak compared to my old xt/zee setup.
im "downgrading" to single piston 2016 xt's to get rid of my guides because i hate them so much.
Look, it's life in front of your eyes.
"But, what if you make a mess and get brake fluid on your hands or on your bike? Isn't it toxic?"
"No problem honey, you could use this stuff as a skin conditioner or salad dressing"
"But shouldn't we plan time to do this very carefully, get the invisible bubbles out of the fluid, drape the bike so we don't strip paint and then store the fluid up in the attic so it doesn't poison the kids or the dog?"
"No honey. It's not that big a deal."
........ said no SRAM owner, ever........
Dot fluid has a higher boiling point, and is better suited to prolonged descents, but that's beside the point.
It's not a reason to compromise and use a Shimano brake over the excellent Guides. Stop the predujice, and try them - you'll be surprised at how great they perform.
See the real question to ask here, since the majority are already using Shimano brakes due to their rep for being perfect, is why change? Why, if you already have a fantastic brake that has given you no issues whatsoever and has the best reputation in the business, would you consider a brake that costs more and is not as proven? I know Guides are great brakes, in my limited experience with them, they have been just as good performance-wise as Shimano's XT and XTR's. But more expensive and just-as-good won't win customers.
I'II have to admit the bite from shimano brakes needs getting used to but after that initiaI bite the moduIation is on par with sram
There was a time when Avid made much stronger brakes that Shimano but after a few years big S. got it's shit together and returned fire. Now they're make really powerful brakes and they're still reliable with easy access to parts everywhere. But I bet you won't need anything
To be honest I don't like the looks of this new caliper - it's seems to be overdesigned while Shimano maintained simple and elegant.
Another thing is Avid Bleed kit. I bought original since at that time there was no replacements on the market. Sure it works great but for a very small fraction of the price you buy funnel and a syringe and you can bleed any Shimano brake on the market.
Don't get me wrong: power and modulation of Sram products can be really great but in long term Shimano wins.
Come to think of it, neither have any of my riding buddies. The most agressive of the group did manage to bend one of his levers, but I just removed the assembly from the bike, laid it flat as I could get it on my workbench, and hammered the lever straight again. Still works great to this day.
But I'm still waiting to hear about how a rebuild kit is more expensive than a lever body. If you make a claim, back it up.
BTW: if you're shit magnet you'll have problem with all your brakes whichever manufacturer choose ))
Here's a complete XT lever for $28 -
www.cambriabike.com/BlM785B-XT-Disc-Brake-Lever-Right-Silver-Black-Right.asp
You can get them on ebay even cheaper, but the going rate is $25-30 for XT levers.
www.pricepoint.com/Brand/Shimano/Shimano-XT-M8000-Brake-Lever.axd
MSRP for an RSC lever kit is $30, the others are cheaper. incidentally, even the RSC can be found under $20: www.amazon.com/SRAM-Mountain-Bicycle-Lever-Internals/dp/B00MMPI0CQ
Here, any side or color you want for $30...
www.jensonusa.com/Shimano-XT-BL-M785-L-Brake-Lever-Only
I'd also like to reiterate that I NEVER said that an XT Brake lever was cheaper than a Guide lever rebuild kit. You attempted to put those words in my mouth. I simply said that Shimano brakes are cheaper than SRAM brakes, and I have proven that for the one person on earth who didn't already know it.
You made a claim that you can replace shimanos cheaper than SRAMs. I chose an easy example. You don't like my comparison? find another. good luck, because even with how much cheaper shimano parts are, they just aren't cheaper than the internals kits for SRAM brakes. The only way you're coming close is by comparing last gen Shimano stuff. M8000, or STFU. & let me reiterate: even with weighing the scales in your favor, you're still coming out more expensive.
@EnduroriderPL When was the last time they refreshed Zee? Guide came out last year.
www.treefortbikes.com/product/333222407114/1255/Shimano-XT-M8000-Disc-Brake.html
You are still talking about a rebuild kit that costs ALMOST AS MUCH AS AN ENTIRE LEVER!! If you are saying that you'd rather have to completely rebuild a lever just to save $10, then that makes one of you.
Zee/Saint were refreshed in 2013, and are still better performing, cheaper, and more reliable than anything in their class. Saints are widely regarded as the holy grail in braking, despite all the new competing options that have been released since.
Secondly when I wrote about my problems with 1ST generation of Elixirs Zee were new brakes and still cheaper or _minimally_ more expensive that repair kit that i couldn't get in whole EU!
But that's logic, & your retail pricing is admissible, but mine apparently isn't, so hey, whatever. I'm going to compare sale pricing to the other guy's MSRP & win! yay!
Enjoy your victory, you earned it by being on the side of popular. SRAM boo! Shimano yay! that guy said something slightly derogatory towards Shimano! he must hate everything I love! let's go get two pieces of wood & nail him to them!
Zee(& saint) won't work with any of the new I-spec shifters, I'm actually fairly certain we'll see a new Saint Groupo this year, for at least that reason.
But like I already said, whatever. I'm apparently defending the devil by pointing out one advantage of SRAM over Shimano, & I'm sick of being the pariah for an offhand comment.
As for "works almost as well" guides aren't elixers. sram brakes work great, now that they've gotten rid of taperbore.
FWIW, I've been running XTs & DB5s in the last year, & they've both been flawless.
What is the new I-spec that won't fit? As far as I'm concerned there are 2 version of I-spec. It's I-spec (first aka old one) and I-spec B. With shifters I got full assembly kit for both type levers. Besides there is a compatibility chart on Shimano's site so it's virtually impossible to buy wrong if you spent 3 minutes looking at it. I don;t think that they'll lunch new Saint just for that reason.
& unlike A vs B, this is a hard cut-off: new XT & XTR will not work with I-spec A or B, in either direction.
And if you worry about second hand market value you shouldn't have bough a YT Tuess in the first place.
I mean, you probably see this only in MTB community. Innovations that genuinely increase performance and tech trickle down and still people complain?
I'd say hands down the best modulation on the market (ok, I can only compare them to Avid and Shimano). The only issue I've heard is from heavier guys complaining that the 2 piston brakes don't have the overall stopping power (so get the 4 piston if you are 200 lbs). I'm only 150 lbs and have no issues with stopping power but I can see the complaint.
I just recently pulled some (about 2 year old) Avid 4 piston brakes off a bike I bought used and replaced them with my Hope X2 Race. I went from having on/off binary braking with lots of power to more than sufficient power with plenty of modulation. A much better ride and my times are quicker!
The other benefit is maintenance (if you decide it's needed). No syringes or special fittings - you bleed them like a car. Super easy. I cursed the first time I bled an old set of Hayes and Avid was about the same. Both required periodic bleeding to remove air from the system (not sure how it keeps getting in). The switch to Hope remedied that issue. I can't comment on the latest generation of Avid brakes but I sure hope they've improved!
I'm liking the Guides, but that doesn't mean they are the best, just the best for me.
Something to consider you guys is that fade and initial bit both have A LOT to do with the pad formulation. Something that the motorsports industry knows well but is seldom talked about here.
With that in mind, it's not the outright power or feel of Guides, E4's, M4's, Saint's, or even Code R's that should be compared, but instead how tough they are and what they are like to live with.
The reason so many like Hope is because they are EXTREMELY adjustable, there are tons of parts available to rebuilding, and bleeding them is childs play. They are not flimsly plastic bodied stuff (SRAM, AVID) either. I pulled this from the site as an example. It's a PDF with an exploded view of a '09 MonoM4 with the part numbers should you decided or need to rebuild or repair.
www.hopetech.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/2009Mono4-caliperexploded.pdf
ebcbrakes.com/products/mountain-bike
I use green compound pads on my cars and motorcycles before that. Amazing initial bite, fantastic power, fade resistant. Good 5h1t!
I kept the Guides on the Tues and just dropped it off at my LBS yesterday since I could not for the life of me get a good bleed. My kid crashed on the bike, so perhaps there's an internal issue, but the dual syringe bleed process really drives me nuts. The LBS claims that they should just bleed right up. I must be doing something wrong. I wish sram would produce a syringe kit with an actual valve rather than that clamp method.
I can tear down and bleed the Hopes in an afternoon and have been happy with the serviceability of the Hopes. When the Sram are working, I feel like the initial bite is a bit less crisp than the Hopes, and the lever adjust feels flimsy and I get super confused many time adjusting the bite point on the guides since one side is opposite the other. . . other than that, riding the Tues at the limit on a DH run at Mammoth was good. No fade and 200 f and r may be a good thing on the big bike, although the new Canyon Sender appears to have 180 r. . . I plan to put the DH Hope on the Tues later this season, just for maintenance reasons, not necessarily brake performance.
Good thing it'll still rip anyway.
But there's Hope yet.
So my questions is,is there any difference from the stock Guide RS one that came out last year or this is revised Guide calliper ?
Do they incorporate new pads size or still running "Trail size"??
That really is a question and not (just) a smartass remark. Fox sells all their spares too, but I wouldn't even know how to go about getting them AS I'VE NEVER NEEDED ANY. Conversely SRAM support reps know me by name and call me at home.
On the other hand if the threaded holes are not right on your fork the conical washers allows to align the caliper.
There is an assembly error on the picture, there must be washers under the caliper, otherwise the caliper is not facing the disc, also the spherical washers are useless if there are not over and under the caliper.
If you remove the spherical washers you have to mount normal washers under the caliper to make it facing the disc.