SRAM's Trail House gathering included a lot of sun, great home cooked food - as well as some awesome eats from Hulas - and, more importantly, killer riding. We also spent some time learning about three new products: SRAM's
clutch equipped Type 2 derailleur, Avid's four piston
X0 Trail brakes, and the reengineered Grip Shift that you can read about below. Besides getting schooled on the new ten speed twist shifters, including how different it is from the original design, we also spent enough trail time on it to gather a good first impression of what to expect.
SRAM's recent release of their redesigned Grip Shift system greatly polarized riders, with many of those who are old enough to have used the original version being more receptive to the idea than riders who have never had to twist a shifter to change gears. While the tide certainly shifted towards trigger shifters over the last decade, SRAM strongly believes that there are many riders out there who would use an updated Grip Shift system. Enough, in fact, that their drivetrain development team has actually been working on a ten speed Grip Shift system since the inception of XX itself - nearly five full years. That's a long time to be working on a product. "We weren’t resisting doing a new Grip Shift," says product manager Chris Hilton, "but the reality is that the current nine speed Grip Shift is over ten years old. We’ve obviously made a lot of headway on our drivetrain performance in that time." It clearly wasn't an issue of simply adding another indexing click to turn the original Grip Shift it into a ten speed shifter... "When we launched XX 2 x 10, it was a whole new level of performance. Frankly, we didn’t feel that the old design was at the same level of performance that was expected from XX. On the other hand, we had some good ideas about how we could make an all new Grip Shift that would really change people’s ideas about these shifters.''
| Trigger shifters were the ''cool'' shifter. So there were a lot of internal challenges to face. Why do a new Grip Shift when everybody rides triggers? Could we justify the expense to develop? And so on. But at the end of the day, there is a VERY vocal and passionate group of Grip Shift users all over the world. Grip Shift was the product that put SRAM on the map. Why wouldn't you do it? The question then became: what do we do to make it awesome? - Chris Hilton - product manager |
Hilton and his team developed the new ten speed Grip Shift over a relatively long time, but it then quickly went through a trial by fire in the most public of arenas, with Specialized's Jaroslav Kulhavy using it to win the 2011 World Championships. "I drove down from our Development Center in Schweinfurt, Germany, with six sets of prototypes,'' explains Hilton ''In case it doesn’t mean anything to you, that was the weekend before the Worlds in Champery. These are the first shifters to ever leave SRAM for an outside tester. I handed them to Jon Cancellier (
BlackBox program manager) in a paper bag as I recall. He went straight to Champery and gave our BlackBox leg-crackers a shot at testing them. One of those sets was on the bike of the guy that won the rainbows that day. Swear to God there were tears in my eyes on the last lap of that race!''
SRAM Grip Shift details:
• Ten speed shifters
• Shifter barrel rotates on three rows of stainless steel ball bearings
• 7075 Alloy shift indexing
• Coil return spring
• Weight: 207 grams (
shifters, clamps, cables), 287 grams (
including interlocking grips)
• Availability: April, 2012
• MSRP: $225 USD (
X0 Grip Shift), $295 USD (
XX Grip Shift)
How are XX and X0 Grip Shift different?
Grip Shift is available in both XX and X0 flavours, although much like ten speed has filtered down to both X7 and X5 levels, we can see it popping up under less expensive model names down the road. Interestingly, there isn't much between the XX and X0 shifters when it comes to weight, with both of them weighing within a few grams of each other. The differences between the two come down to the XX's carbon fiber shift cover - the X0 uses an aluminum piece, and the XX's Ride-On sealed shift cables that come with the XX shifters - the X0's comes stock with standard cables. Both shifters use the
exact same internals, same hardware, and same grip profile.
Ball bearing internals
The original Grip Shift was a relatively simple unit that consisted of only a few parts: the outer shift barrel, the body, and a flat spring, as well as the barrel adjuster. While its simplicity meant that there was very little to go wrong, SRAM knew that the old Grip Shift wouldn't cut it by today's standards. Inside you'll find three rows of ball bearings that the barrel rotates on, a much more robust setup than the plastic-on-plastic rotating parts within the original, a design that often needed to be re-greased to run smoothly.
Metal shift indexing
Take apart the original Grip Shift and you'll discover that the shifter's indexing was provided by a series of ridges on the inside face of the plastic barrel that passed over a flat spring (that could be either plastic or metal). Over time the plastic ridges would wear out, causing the shifting to feel less defined and with an amount of free play. The internals of the new XX and X0 units make use of a much more refined layout, employing an 7075 aluminum indexing surface for the flat spring to click against. This design should not only provide consistent action in the long run, but also be precise enough to accurately manage the tighter tolerances of a ten speed gearing range. SRAM has also used a coil return spring within the shifter.
Interlocking shifter and grip
There were no such things as Lock-On grips back when Grip Shift was first released, but now it is hard to find a bike on the showroom floor that doesn't include them. And for good reason: they not only prevent the dreaded throttle grip, but also make removing and reinstalling grips nearly effortless. SRAM has designed in a Lock-On system to the new Grip Shift that interlocks the supplied grips right into the shifter, effectively turning them into a single unit. The grip itself is held in place with a clamping collar at its outer end (
just as you'd find on a standard Lock-On grip), and its inboard end features a flange that clips directly into the the shifter. This not only helps keep both the grip and shifter stationary, but also allows the interlocking section to act as a seal that works to keep out moisture and grime. Want to use your own grips? Not an issue. Simply pop out a ring in the end of the shifter and push in the included blanking ring that now acts as a barrier to mother nature. No tools required.
X0 Grip Shift v.s. trigger shifter weight comparison
The X0 Grip Shift system in its entirety, that includes the shifters, all hardware and cables, as well as the interlocking grips, do weigh more than a set of X0 shifters. The total numbers are a bit misleading, though, given that you have to add a set of Lock-On grips to the trigger shifters in order for it to be considered fair. Only when you do that do you get a real picture of the comparable weights, with the totals adding up to show that the Grip Shift system is lighter by 76 grams. That's not much by any means, and certainly not enough to warrant choosing twisters over triggers, but the gram counters out there will likely take it into consideration. Interestingly, SRAM says that the XX and X0 Grip Shift units are within a few grams of each other, this despite the XX's carbon fiber cover compared to the X0's aluminum version.
On The TrailThere has been a lot of chatter about SRAM's new Grip Shift, much of it discussing whether or not it makes sense on a mountain bike that is going to be ridden ridden hard, jumped, and generally pushed harder than you would a standard cross-country bike. Well, that is exactly what we had on tap during our visit to SRAM's Santa Cruz Trail House. Our small group would be riding Yeti's 6" travel SB-66, a full out all-mountain rig equipped with RockShox's Lyric and Monarch Plus suspension units, while chasing GT's Kyle Strait down the mountain. While our first impressions of the new Grip Shift really only count as dipping our toes into the water when comparing our three day visit to a proper full-term test, we feel confident in saying that complications would have shown themselves if there was a fundamental issue with using Grip Shift in an aggressive setting.
So, did we suffer from accidental shifts every time that we hit a jump? Did we have difficulty shifting when we actually wanted to? The answer to both is a resounding "no".
Sitting on the bike at the trail head, with our eyes closed and our hands on the controls, we couldn't feel the transition between the integrated lock-on grip and the shifter itself. There was no 'ridge' to feel, despite the increasing diameter at the grip and shifter where the two meet, and the rubber shape of the shift barrel feels like it would be more than comfortable enough for those who don't ride with gloves. We can't say how this would feel over the long haul, but turning the barrel with bare hands didn't feel uncomfortable. Part of this easy feeling is down to the system's lack of required shift effort - it needs much less effort to turn the shifter barrel than what was found with the original design. This is especially true of the front unit, with it feeling much smoother and less restricted than the old system's plastic-on-plastic internals.
While the shifters rotate quite easily, the indexing is very SRAM-esqe. There is a solid "ka-chung" that accompanies each shift, and the indexing was strong enough to prevent us from ever over-rotating the barrel and shifting more than we intended. That's right, no mis-shifts regardless of any jumping and generally riding the SB-66 like a hooligan. Part of this is down to the the shifter's postion on the bar, something that we see many Grip Shift users tuning to their needs. Both the XX and X0 Grip Shift systems come with integrated grips that lock into place within the shifters, but the grips also put the shift barrels in a predetermined position relative to your hands. This stock postion may be a bit to far inboard for some, requiring one to slide their hands in ever so slightly to make a shift. We can see many riders setting up the shifters with a shade shorter grips - think of it as tuning the shifters postion, very much like how you would position a trigger shifter relative to the grip and hand postion - with different riders likely end up with a moderately different setups that work best for them. We also bring this up because we quickly discovered that we're not big fans of the stock grips that the system comes with. Their rather large outboard Lock-On collar ended up resting right under the very outside edge of our palms. It will also be interesting to try the new twist shifters with another brands brakes, although SRAM says that they don't anticipate any compatibility issues.
Changing a cable
Anyone who had to install a new cable in the old Grip Shift shifter knows that it involved looping the new cable around the barrel before feeding it through the cable channel, all while keeping it from un-looping as you slide the cover back into place - a sometimes tricky task. SRAM says that they have greatly simplified the job with the new Grip Shift, and we gave it a go to see just how much easier it actually is. You start shifting to the highest gear and loosening the inboard lock-on collar (
the one that keeps the shifter from rotating on the bar), slipping it off of the split flange. This allows the cover to be removed, giving you access to the cable port on the shifter body to let you push the old cable out or slide a new one in. The process is exactly the same for both the front and rear shifters, and is both much easier and quicker to do than on the old model. In fact, we'd say that it is actually easier to swap a cable on Grip Shift than on their trigger shifters.
Grip interface
Both the XX and X0 level shifters use the exact same grip interface that sees the left and right grips lock into place within the shifter body. Think of the entire system - both the shifter and the grip - as a one piece lock-on unit. SRAM is well aware that many riders will want to use their own grips, though, and have designed a system that allows users to slip in a interchangeable ring that plugs those slots when using standard grips, keeping the system's inner workings protected from the elements much better than if the regular grip was simply pushed up against the shifter. We expect different Grip Shift compatible lock-on grips to be available from aftermarket companies in the future, or riders could simple cut down their favorite Lock-Ons to the appropriate length. Using grip length to tune the shifters postion will be vital to attain the best ergonomics for rider's hands.
Our first few days on SRAM's new Grip Shift showed us that the system hasn't been engineered for use solely on sub-20lb European hardtails being ridden by weight conscious racer boys, but rather on proper mountain bikes as well. The above words shouldn't be taken as a true test, though - it was only a few days after all - and there will undoubtedly be riders who will never turn their backs on trigger shifters, but we're looking forward to putting some time on the system with it fitted to our own bikes. Stay tuned for a proper longterm review a bit further down the road.
Photos by Adrian Marcouxwww.sram.com
www.motor-world.co.uk/index.cfm?product=1081&product_title=Raleigh%20Dakota%20Boys%2026%20inch%20bike%20with%20full%20suspension
Dave: The article makes reference to two groups of people, those old enough to have used grip shift to know better, and those too young to have ever used. You obviously fall into the latter, and it's a shame that you don't know what you're missing. Even if you did try them and didn't like them, at least you'd know better than to try to associate them with some POS department store bike.
But this is the internet, and requires almost no effort for the people from the first category to post their negative views, so we'll keep on seeing these comments about miss shifting. Or 29ers being the antichrist. Or whatever the next thing they think that venting about will make them popular as other same mentality people give them positive props. In the old days when all magazines were in print, and people had to physically write and mail letters to complain about something, you saw a lot less people doing it. I'm just waiting for someone like Danny Hart to win a world cup DH on a 5.5" travel 29er using grip shift and riding clipless pedals for their skies to fall in.
@Rolas: Revoshift is worse than the low end gripshift, Revos are some of the worst feeling shifters out there, bar none.
@feds: yes there are unintentional shifts with any shifter, so you can't say it doesn't happen. For me it happens a lot more with Gripshift. I am not saying that the high end Gripshifters are garbage and never would, they are great pieces of equipment that just doesn't work for me. While I was still working in the bike shops I would get asked often what was better. My answer was always what ever feels right to the person using them. For me it is Sram triggers, but now that shimano can be shifted with all thumbs, they are a strong contender on my books.
Once again, either you love them or you hate them, but these new X series shifters are not junk.
DH 29er using grip shift and riding clipless pedals!
What I did!!!
Whyyyyy??!!!
Grip shifts are a very good example of a diverse product, a different way to approach innovation. 100% thumbs up for it. This is (re)creating another branch of innovation tree instead of going on one deeper and deeper into shit. What we get 99% of the time form the industry is trolling for 10 years to shave off 10g off a shifter and make it shift 0.1s faster. Or finding intermediate solutions 15mm axles, 650B wheels - that is a bullcrap not taking us anywhere. A new era is coming and as weird as it sounds the concept of - progress in form of getting faster, lighter cheaper is just good - is getting out dated. We will need to save money for other things than bikes, so there will be no place for XX XTRs 15, every company offering 20 frames every 5mm of travel - because no producer will be able to afford it. Variety attracts consumer to your brand but drives up the costs.
You think Chinese people will work for those wages forever? They will just continue to bare bad working conditions and pollution of their own air soil and water? What do you think happened in South America? - their wages raised in 70s, political situation got complicated, oil prices went up and production moved out to China. But there is nothing beyond China and this will happen there as well
I knew this would happen the second it got posted but still, it baffles me that people have such boring lifes that they spend so much time hating on a product they never tried. Go out and ride...
Personally, I'll remain neutral until the more affordable x7/x9 versions appear. I'd love to give it a shot but I'm not willing to spend 300$ on shifters for now.
I can't could the number of times that I had to deal with people that insisted they were fixing something right because they read it on the internet, or that a product I knew was good was a piece of crap because someone had a bad experience with it on the internet.
How many people instantly declared the 888 junk because of this:
Andreau- bent 888's
Hopkins- snapped 888's
Doerfling- snapped 888's
How many hit larger than what most people here will ever do, did these forks take? These guys stress their equipment to the limits every time they ride a comp and things are bound to fail. I admit I ma a bit of a hack and 50% of what I land it not buttery smooth, or I case it. guess what, my 888s are working fine and show no signs of failure, same thing with my Argyle, the steerer is still straight. despite what all the naysayers have said about those products being bad.
OK I am going to end my rant now:o
Reading all the negative comments makes it so obvious that ninety percent of them are coming from people who have never really tried them.
When Gripshift first came out, we all thought the same things, they'd compromise your grip, you'd be mis-shifting all the time, especially on jumps and hard climbs, etc.
It just didn't happen. It's hard to explain why but it just doesn't.
Why do you think Gripshift took over the world back then? (That IS how Sram became Sram) We had Shimano triggers that worked well but we switched to Gripshift because it worked better. Simple.
Twisties allow you to transition from a downhill to a climb like nothing else. If I get surprised by a climb I can drop my entire cassette with one quick motion. Try that with your paddles.
If you want to stick with paddles, God bless you, knock yourselves out. Just don't put down a product you really know nothing about.
also, joalst, I completely agree with what you said. I am proud to say I own a 29er hardtail. it's the best bike I've ever owned hands down.
Back to the original topic though, I think if more riders spent time on good twist-shifters, they'd whine about them an awful less. Myself I simply wish they'd done an X.9 level version of these shifters at the same time as the X.0 and XX ones. Just to shut up the people whining about the price hike.
and it's so much easier just to push a little leaver thing to switch gears then try and twist the other half of ur grip!?
hate em
That's just stupid money.
For $295 they should include a fairy to fly next to me and shift for me
...or buy perfectly good 2 year old XOs at .20/dollar from guys that HAVE to upgrade every year.
Everyone just relax. It's a shifter. It works well and this new design will come down in price just like everything else. Let's go ride bikes!!
That said, I've realized that I'm somewhat older than the average pinkbiker. >.
my point, REAL MEN USE GRIPSHIFT... for others, there are triggers LOL
I was able to purchase SRAM integrated locking grips for my 2012 X.o 3x10 set that are 85 mm long.
Part No. 00.7918.013.007 (Black Clamps)
Got mine off ebay.
These are the perfect length for me, and I can one finger brake no problem.
They are identical to the stock interlocking grips - just shorter.
I use XTR 970 on both my bikes now because of multi shifting capability but if I ever go 10 speed I would consider these. Maybe not at that price but find them barely used. Rich guys are always dumping gear.
But for the naysayers, they're actually not that bad. I would definitely say moto riders would be perfectly mated for these but they also looked like they really thought these out. I bet they're buttery smooth and have few issues. Closed minded people are closed minded people.
I have a 29er and like my 26 more. I've had Gripshift and admit I liked that idea more but the XTR multi shift is where I'm at these days. I guess everyone else is a person who shifts perfectly every time. Must have listened to Ned back in the day. SISO!
As to the build to order... yes, they produce tens of millions of units of each part, largely to support OEM sales but as anyone who shops on ebay knows, bike manufacturers often over-order to hit a better price discount, and then dump the stuff they don't need onto the gray market. Then there's all the distributors who release older inventory they no longer need to handle warranties out for general consumer sales. There's an ebay dealer here in canada that's has listings for THOUSANDS of replacement parts for shimano and rockshox products.
ooo look at me! my bike is cooler then yours because you have gripshift!
Sounds a bit of a tall story.
Also, someone mentioned Danny Heart running them on his world champs bike. They look very much like trigger shifters to me:
www.giant-bicycles.com/es-mx/news/article/pit.pass.danny.hart.s.world.champ.glory/15816
right now, my one current mtb that l use is a mix of brand because l simply don't care -- they all work fine when tuned correctly *** which of course they are.
Sram X.0 twist shifty on the left
Saint 9spd indiex shifty on the right
XT front D
Saint medium cage rear D
Origin8 29 tooth granny
E-13 38 middle
NO BIG RING
SRAM 9spd 11/32 cassette
SRAM 9psd chain
**** l also flip flop the brakes front on the right, rear on the left
main reason for the twisty front shifter is due to the fact l only have half a thumb and it's difficult to use an index'd shifter with my nubby digit --- however, even if l had a full digit, l think l'd still do the set up this way because l like the micro shifting of a twist shifter for the front D. there's pretty much never a time you'll see the front D rub on the chain because it's outside its range of shifting options.
it's been a long time since l have been a mudder but back in the day --- there have been times when we got so muddy during our rides, or just soaked by rain that we couldn't get a tight enough grip on a twisty "grip shift" and we unable to shift. sometimes, l recall the rubber part of the shifter would actually slip off the shifting pod and spin freely.. once that happened, that was pretty much it for the shifter -- you'd have to buy a whole new rubber piece or sometimes even a new shifter. l think they have improved the design since then.
personally, l'm fine with either system, l just prefer index'd for the rear shifter only because you're a lot less likely to accidentally shift when slamming through nasty rock gardens or landing funky and accidentally shifting then.
just like hi tech consumer goods, upgrade for what exactly....?
plus with 10 spd you can have an even wider ratio block.
- Basically it sounds like the inboard knob (tool-free) would be sacrificed for the old allen-key (tool req.) style reach adjust in this situation - as can be seen in the photos in this article.
Not a huge deal, but a bit of a hiccup. Can't always make the new match 100% with all existing!
But it's good to see a product like that coming out, instead of getting every year a 2g lighter versions of stuff we already have. Keep it up SRAM with that - such variety is more than welcome!
You just made a good point for twisties, not triggers
Shifting while braking with the old twisties was actually easy (You'd have to do it to understand) and, from this article, the new ones sound much easier still.
It's like saying XX paddles must be crap because the Suntour thumb shifters that came on Huffys in the eighties/nineties were junk.