SRAM X01 - First Ride

Aug 20, 2013
by Mike Levy  
SRAM X01 Photo by Adrian Marcoux

Same Technology, Less Money

SRAM's XX1 group certainly had its doubters when the single-ring drive train was released around this time last year. Skeptics questioned its gearing range, saying that it wouldn't be wide enough for all but the fittest riders, while also scoffing at SRAM's proposal of riders using it without any sort of chain guide. Some quick math, along with a year's worth of testing, has us believing in the gearing - so long as you are honest with yourself regarding what chain ring size you should be using - and it took only a few rides until we were convinced of the group's chain retention abilities. After years of riders struggling with chain guide setup and reliability, it admittedly felt oh so wrong to suddenly be told that we no longer needed to use one, even on rugged terrain. The proof is in the pudding, though, as XX1 was, without a doubt, our top gear pick for last season. How can SRAM top it? Offering the same technology at a lower price would be a good start, wouldn't it?
Details
• Single-ring, 11spd group
• 10 - 42t cassette
• X-Sync thick/thin chain ring tooth profile
• X-Horizon clutch-equipped rear derailleur
• Optional chain ring guard
• 94mm crank BCD
• Smallest chain ring available: 30 tooth
• Carbon crank (al. version to come)
• MSRP: $1,273 USD (starting price)


Although the group carries a starting price of $1,273 USD, you can expect the street price for X01 to be slightly lower, even if its MSRP is is still just a few hundred dollars less than that of XX1. With consumers asking for a much more affordable single-ring, eleven speed group, why is there such a small relative cost difference between the two groups? The answer lies in what bike manufacturers pay for the components when they are spec'ing next year's models, with the cost difference at the original equipment level being much, much greater than what we see in the aftermarket. And although no one is willing to discuss how much manufacturers pay for XX1 and X01, it likely isn't out of line to assume that it could translate to $400 or more on the price of a bike. Given that the two groups appear to be so closely related, how was SRAM able to offer cut costs? The answer lies in streamlined manufacturing processes that save time, and we all know that time is money. Small machining and finishing details throughout the group add up to only the slightest of weight penalties, with the cassette weighing just fifteen grams more, the derailleur ten grams, and the cranks only five. All told, there is only 30 - 40 gram difference between the two groups. So, while it may seem that X01 isn't much different than XX1 when it comes to price and weight, the real story is how SRAM has been able to bring the system's technology as a whole to a much lower priced complete bike on the showroom floor. Yes, we'd likely spring for XX1 if we were to buy a complete groupset, that much is pretty clear, but we would choose an X01-spec rig if buying a complete bike as it would either cost much less or feature upgraded components elsewhere.


SRAM X01 Photo by Adrian Marcoux
SRAM X01 Photo by Adrian Marcoux

X01 On The Trail

Last year, nearly to the very day, we put our first ride in on the debuting XX1 group. That ride began from the top of Whistler and took us down part of the freshly built Top of the World trail before ducking into the trees to sample Khyber, Business Time, and everything in between. Not coincidentally, we kicked off our time on the new X01 group on the very same Top of the World trail after a long ride in the gondola before a short hop on the final chairlift to the summit. Our route back down to the valley floor would include a much rougher than expected Top of the World (the Enduro World Series race went down it the day before... twice!), the natural roots and rocks of No Joke, into Too Tight, Angry Pirate, and finishing it off with Heart of Darkness. Not only was it pretty much the same course that the EWS took down the mountain, it was also a muddy and rough first date with X01. Just the way we like it.

One ride, regardless of how rough the terrain is, can't possibly prove a component's durability to us, but it certainly can serve as an intro that can give us enough information to report back. And although a "First Ride" impressions piece can sometimes come off as a bit banal and inconclusive, there are certainly nuggets of information that can be gleaned from a single proper ride. In this case, that bit of info is that X01 performs very much like XX1 in the short-term, so much so that we would be hard pressed to tell the difference in a back to back blind test. While this might be a let down to some who were hoping for a night and day difference between the two component groups, it really shouldn't come as a surprise as both XX1 and X01 share the same design ethos and technology. That means that the shifting feels the same - tactile and positive, and that chain slap noise was near non-existent. XX1's incredible chain retention abilities are also found on X01, with the clutch derailleur and the ring's X-Sync tooth shaping keeping the chain on the ring regardless of how rough the trails were, despite our 150mm travel Lapierre bike not running any sort of chain guide. And with Top of the World in much more rugged shape than last season - check the photo at right - it is no small feat that the system as a whole is able to perform so well.

The bottom line is that, at least at this early introductory stage, X01 performs every bit as well as XX1. Its shifting feels as precise, the system can boast of the same chain retention abilities, and it weighs in at just 30 - 40 grams more when both groups use their respective carbon cranksets. Comparing MSRP pricing reveals just $176 USD between the two groups at the retail level, and we would have a hard time not convincing ourselves to splurge a bit for XX1 over X01 if building a bike up from scratch, especially due to the ceramic bottom bracket that comes stock with the more expensive group. As we've stated both earlier in this piece and in a previous article explaining X01, the strength of the group lies in its lower cost at the original equipment level, largely thanks to more efficient manufacturing techniques. This means that consumers will be able to purchase a 2014 model year bike with an X01 group for much less than if that bike had come with XX1, simply because the savings at the OE level are multiplied by the time the bike reaches the showroom floor. Said bike could be hundreds of dollars
cheaper, or it might come with a dropper post in place of a standard post, or maybe even upgraded wheels, but in the end we are getting XX1 technology for less money. The next step will be for us to put some serious miles in on our X01 test group to see if the components perform as well over the long haul as they did during out first ride on them.



www.sram.com
Photos by Adrian Marcoux

Must Read This Week

213 Comments

  • + 387
 Just get a 1x10, clutch mec, raceface narrow wide chain ring..... Spend the money saved on a flight to Vegas, and blow the rest on strippers
  • + 25
 Spend the money saved on a flight to Vegas, and blow the rest on strippers, and go riding at bootleg.
  • - 44
flag tjet (Aug 20, 2013 at 14:03) (Below Threshold)
 Like do blow over the strippers you mean? Like the hangover? Uh, fun..
  • + 19
 i cant wait for shimano's answer. maybe this means something that is actually never before seen and exciting will be released at interbike this year!
  • - 23
flag panzer103 (Aug 20, 2013 at 14:31) (Below Threshold)
 Totally agree Tjet. That would be great!!!!
  • + 8
 Kylesligo, 1x10 clutch mec is way to go! Unfortunately, money saved is quite useless to spend in Vegas when your a 16yo that lives there.
  • + 0
 Even with the drivetrain you mention, you're not getting the range of an 11-speed cassette.
  • + 13
 You then good sir hop on a plane and go to Amsterdam
  • + 16
 Really is it really worth it? Come on! 36 - 36 is more than enough, if you haven't got the legs put a 33 on the front
  • + 47
 In some parts of the world a 1:1 ratio is not enough for climbing.
  • + 15
 I think the only answer Shimano needs to give is making a Cassette with a wider range in 10 spd, like 38(or 40)-11. Sure the jumps between gears would get bigger but i think that's a small penalty for having nearly the entire range of a 2x set up (and i would be willing to give up some on either end if it means a lighter more reliable drivetrain) without the hassle of a front mech and the chain retention that comes from the narrow/wide rings without a guide.

Seriously, that is all you need to do Shimano, MAKE A WIDER RANGE CASSETTE (and if it needs it a redesign of your der to work with that kind of range)

PS and before you jump all over it i know after market companies make a 3 sprocket kit that does this, but i was talking about what SHIMANO's answer should be to this ridiculous XO1 drivetrain.
  • - 40
flag matt5311 (Aug 20, 2013 at 15:18) (Below Threshold)
 if a 1:1 ratio is too hard in any part of the world, you need to eat less and/or stop being a massive pansy
  • + 11
 matt5311 Oh a tough guy huh? Maybe you'd like to come out and put your money where your mouth is?
  • - 4
flag jumpman2334 (Aug 20, 2013 at 15:46) (Below Threshold)
 yeah bro. c'mon bro. lets see it bro.. god i hate that word.
  • - 4
flag matt5311 (Aug 20, 2013 at 15:55) (Below Threshold)
 i'm sorry. i didn't realise my comment would ruffle your feathers so much guys. i meant no offence
  • - 2
 the only thing that ruffles my feathers is when i see the word 'bro'
  • + 26
 @jumpman2334 Dont come to nz haha
  • - 7
flag jumpman2334 (Aug 20, 2013 at 16:32) (Below Threshold)
 lol. i plan to go there one day. its a beautiful place. i guess i just wont talk to anyone, but myself =P
  • - 4
flag tjet (Aug 20, 2013 at 18:07) (Below Threshold)
 Oh, for a second there I thought this would turn into a great thread, but no, once again everyone's talking about who's dick's bigger...
  • + 20
 For being such a cool sport/activity Pinkbike has some of the most uptight dreary people on the net. Chill out and learn to laugh and relax.
  • + 5
 Rode one of these on the street last week. Low gear was so low it was nuts. You could ride up a steep as hell hill sitting down. High gear was good enough to bomb down whistler on the fastest trails. Unbelievable. So amazing!
  • + 22
 Will somebody please ban this idiot? ^^
  • + 0
 For Shimano's answer we'll have to wait at least untill 2015. Nothing's in the plans for 2014 models. It doesn't mean they would not show a proto for teasing us this year, and then I mean not spring onto X01. But please Shimano be fast!
  • + 2
 Don't worry matt5311 - you just haven't seen how gnarly are uphills of people who need such low ratios! Have you noticed that they need front mechs to their 11-36 cassettes or 30t for XX1 but suddenly on downhills they pin it so much that 38t is not enough! WC level DH racers use 36t but to hell with them! I ride 34-36 and can uphill stuff as steep as tyre grip allows me to, but obviously in Colorado or on North Shore the laws of physics are different! Everything is gnarlier in North America! Even asphalt! What do we Euros know about MTB!
  • + 2
 lol....was gonna say something similar Waki, but with less sarcasm.......ach! live and let live. i have time to train ...a lot...i ride a hardtail with a 36f x 34r set up, single chainring.......and have yet to be beat on a climb.....in the sense i can't get up it...plenty of folk beat me up said climbs. but if you dont' have the time to train then why the hell not make use of technology to make your ride more fulfilling and enjoyable after all its what we are all here for, enjoyment and geeky bike components
  • - 4
flag WAKIdesigns (Aug 21, 2013 at 1:08) (Below Threshold)
 Time for training? From my experience: 45min-1h of strength training followed by 15min of cardio, mainly intervals and sprints - 3 times a week, 15min basic exercises with body weight everyday. That does wonders! Is that a lot?

How much compared to time spent in front of TV and computer every day? Just get a good training program, for instance one from James Wilson.
  • + 2
 My strength training: pull the bike-trailer with my daughter into it. Now I have to find time for cardio training...
  • + 0
 well theres no excuse for ignorance, or just being a pansy about your training....i'm pretty dedicated and barely do any tv watching etc (yet here i am posting on a forum lol) but yeah that is a lot for some people. my week consists of from 90min - 5 hrs training every day...all in the wrong places probably. my wife is struggling to get training/biking in every day.....up at 6am...off to work...back at 7pm.....need time to shower, chill the brain, and cook/eat dinner (maybe i should cook more) doesn't give you much time to drive to the gym (no room for gym in my flat) before bed...this leaves only 2 days to train...but shit needs to be done on those days...sorting out all the crap of the week, socialising with people who actually exist outwith facebook, family matters....all whilst finding time to put a ride in....when its not pissing it down with rain in scotland!!!..but due to the weeks work load and lack of training every day...this makes the one true day off for her hard work. ...and we don't even have kids or dogs. ...sounds to me that you Waki, are lucky enough to have the same life i have with loads of free time to do what the hell we like. we are the few and far between
  • - 3
 Forkbrayker - I also have a job and own family and I base my hard opinion just on that. If I can do it, so can anyone else who believes he is serious about biking and he has no health issues or dysfunctions. It is easy to find excuses why one can't do something. Single ring setup is a great motivation to train just as slack head angle, as you must crank standing a lot if you want precise handling on steeper terrain. Those things just make you a better rider isn't it?
  • - 3
 No cuz you broke it with low bottom bracket
  • + 4
 Waki you want a golden star with that? So much for the guy who hates strava. You all should meet and kiss, get it over with for Christ sake.. This is why women hate biking with men, macho bull shit...
  • - 3
 Tjet: No my friend you miss one possibility in this. I don't give a sht about my ego and I ain't trying to appear strong. Because I am not. If I was I would be at the races wouldn't I? I am actualy saying that it does not take much to ride anything even for longer rides on good old 32t front and 11-36 back. It does not take almost any training, 15 mons a day. it is a mindset. To ride 1:1 on 6" bike with beefy 1ply tyres you need to train not more than three times a week in off-season with not more than two dumbbells and teo kettlebells.

Having said that I do realize (and this is the second possibilty) that certain people's Egos will light up when called or proven... Weak due to lazyness. And that is the case here
  • + 0
 could it be the fact it requires a little effort and strain to push a 1:1 ratio, but people see also the easier option and run out to get xx1/xo1. all humans are hardwired to make shit as easy as possible for themselves (myself included) and you have to discipline yourself to do otherwise. for instance in cycling, put effort in and not ease up when lactic acid build up creates a painful sensation. we are taught that all pain is bad as a child, but thats simply not true.

its a bit like tv's before remotes. it worked fine getting up and changing the channel, but a remote requires less effort to do the same job
  • + 3
 Very true. I run a 32 front with 36 rear and clutch mech on my 29er It's perfect. This 11 speed shite is not worth the money.
  • + 2
 Or go one better like me! Canfield hub and general lee adapter and get 9-42t!! #pimpallthethings

www.pinkbike.com/photo/9823491
  • + 1
 i was waiting for someone to chime in about General Lee!!
  • + 1
 You can't put a 33 N/W up front. Raceface does go all the way down to a 30 though!
  • + 2
 There was an article here on pinkbike a few days ago about a shimano wide range prototype, but it got bulled before i could read it.
  • + 2
 I'm much more into the Shimano XTR
  • + 1
 Yeah I commented on it but they deleted it within a few hours, winder why?!
  • + 2
 I'm not gonna post it, because I'm sure PB would delete the post, but a google search, plus clicking the cache link, is your friend...
  • + 2
 ^ THANKS! cache is your friend!
  • + 0
 Ah damn I'm so not a geek!! Anyone send me the link please?
  • + 1
 1: search for "shimano wide range prototype"
2: click the little arrow at the end of the result title you want and click cashed
  • + 2
 Ahaha, we don't know if this has anything to do with Shimano in the first place. Maybe Graves just ordered such mod, there's plenty of folks able to make it for him.

If I were Shimano I would release it from bottom up, or middle up. I would make a 10sp 11-42 SLX cassette at max 400g and around 70$ then according SLX rear mech without increase in price. That would be the end of aftermarket sales for X01 and XX1. Only the "+7000$ bike" buying force would buy it, there would be no sense to send it to shop shelves, only to bike manufacturers. After a year or two, you release XTR at much lower weights and regular XTR prices.
  • + 1
 Thanks Matt for helping an old man!

Yep WAKI, that could jus be made for Graves alone. But with the article being withdrawn, I wonder who would have put this pressure on Pinkbike: Graves to avoid causing damage to his sponsor, or Shimano wanting to keep something more or less secret? We'll know sooner or later.
  • + 2
 Or Mike, the author, did not have any more info on it, only assumptions, realized that it might be garage job and didn't want to come out as a fool by putting a name on it... That's a case for no one else but... Protour! No I'm not ragging on him, I enjoy his enthusiasm and involvement in the online-biking. Everytime that bloke writes a theory, it is truly genuine and surprising, there is no bloody way anyone else could come out with that. It's always stupid but also entertaining to some point. Some people are just plain stupid, he isn't.
  • + 1
 Come on, there's been an article on some "proto" Fox 34 just because there were some RAD stickers on Graves bike! Here at least there's a bit of evidence that something is not stock. Which still doesn't mean a lot that's true.
  • + 1
 What evidence? There's been a one photo documented sighting of two custom made, large cogs behind XTR derailleur. We don't know anything else. RAD stickers, heh, they were as good as the fact how can you tell if those World Cup downhillers actualy use the air spring version.
  • + 1
 Thanks for confirmnig exactly what i said: something is not stock.
As for the RAD stickers I was not talking about DH at all. Unless you know some WC riders using a 34 on their rig.
Read slower, wait, and then answer. Have a nice day Waki.
  • + 1
 It's been pretty much confirmed Graves had a gereal lee like mine. They look very very similar. That's prolly why it was pulled is cuz he was way off!
  • + 1
 Then I hope his shifts better than mine. Just can't use the smallest of those 4 cogs Frown
  • + 1
 Enduromaniac - I did not read it too carefully indeed. I apologize and on top of that wished to tell you that I never intended to disagree with you with my stupid post. Whatever... what's with those General Lee cogs?
  • + 1
 @whattheheel: that was my thought as well, there was a lot of speculation in that article, that if taken the wrong way, might give people the wrong impression about whatever Shimano is actually working on.
  • + 1
 I use a 1x10 drivetrain myself and I was quite happy with it in Germany. In my area the climbs are no more that 300 vertical meters, so even if it's a bit too steep, the climbs are not that long and I just go out of the saddle.
But I'm just in Switzerland for 3 weeks, and I really wish I had something like XX1 or X01. I don't want to go back to two rings up front, but the climbs are just too long and steep for my 33/36 ratio :/
  • + 3
 Gearing choice depends on physiology of the rider, length and intensity of riding, then bike and component choice, wheel/tyres in the forefront, suspension following as the second most important part. That's about it.

I used 32x11/36 in mountains with 500-700m climbs, I climbed 1500m that day (which is off course far from impressive) - just as I used to ride there on 2x9 years before, when I had no idea about training. All I can tell you is that if it gets steep enough for a longer period of time you won't save much energy by cranking lower gears, you will only prolong the pain and postpone hitting the wall by no more than 30min of cranking up. Basic training and and basics of proper nutrition will be more effective way of maintaining performance. Aside from top level racing, ratios lower than 0.8 (and that is a generous) are just about loosing the battle with yourself and keeps you from excelling. You just can't get stronger by cranking lower ratios. 22t granny being the standard ring on 99% of bikes was a crime against MTB. Just as is 30t on 10-42 cassette. You can't progress anywhere with having that incentive on your bike.
  • + 1
 Maybe i don't want to progress or maybe i'm not riding every day, to fit in a training regime. Better yet, i used to train and riding with a middle ring on a steep climb was anything but easy even then (i raced juniors XC before quitting, wasn't particularly strong but i could slot into the first third in austrian races with international attendance). Having anything less than 22-32 these days would be just pure suffering.

So a 42-10 cluster is not wide enough. I'm currently riding a 32-11 cassette with a 32-22 combo int he front. A 28t ring int he front gets slightly lower on an 11 spd system, but you lose out ont he top end. And a 32-10 combination is the lower liit when it comes to spinning out. On 2.4 HR2 run at 2 bars.

Going for a 44t big ring would solve quite a bit of that problem. Going for a 10 mm pitch chain would enable you to use a 55-11 cassette, which would be about the equivalent of a 44-9 on 1/2" pitch system. Sure, you'd need a completely new chain, it would be weaker, but the current 11 spd chain isn't exactly old and is narrower (yet more durable) than the 10 spd chains. I'm thinking it could work.

And i haven't even touched the problem of weird jumps with the current 42-10 cluster, some gears are wide apaprt while some others are close together.
  • + 1
 Like where? I just rode the Brek Epic on a 1x9 setup. 11-34 cass and 32 ring on my 29 and it was 40,0000 ft vert
  • + 1
 It's not the amount of vertical feet. It's the steepness of the climbs. I live at the foot of the Alps, in a glacial valley. Basicly anywhere you want to go that is about 1000 m or higher (i live at about 500 m above the sea) you have a steep climb to get there. A climb that, for me at least, neccessitates a 22-32 combo or something simmilar.
  • + 0
 I understand the gradient factor very well, a 1500ft climb on fire road on smooth gradient is way less tiring than 500ft on steep. Add loose gravel to the steep and you are toasted after 300ft - I get that, I've done it. Then there is the issue of bikes geometry and I will put to you that if someone cranks 22-32 with 67 or slacker HA and high 160+ fork, he can barely ride up, and spends vast amounts of energy keeping the bike riding straight and not tipping over. Then the wheel weight, rolling resistance. 2ply Minions and good bye baby, you need 22-36t on a gradient on which a 60year old would ride 1:1. But if you do earn your downhills you should change to UST or push. Then finaly suspension, if you have bobby suspension, then uphills become a nightmare. As soon as you crank 22-32t on any gradient you are almost as slow as if you were pushing the bike - if you ride so slow that it is hard to ride straight on anything else than 90's Xc bike with 72deg HA - why bother then?

The conclusion is that you either choose wrong way to get yourself up or have a bike type and setup incapable of effective and enjoyable handling the trail conditions, like too much compromise towards downhill. Deciding to ride at snails pace is just holding yourself from having fun. I personally can't stand such tempo, even on steep climbs, i just can't, because I know that if there was an 70yr old trail runner he would be faster than me. Here in Sweden were running is a religion, you meet those guys quite often, and it makes you think... and mash those cranks harder. So many times in the past I was riding a trail on 22t granny and saw hikers walking up way ahead of me, and I remember that feeling that something is just not right, that it takes me so much time to catch up on them.
  • + 1
 I think you omitted a number of important factors like Propedal or lock out, and another one also: clipped in vs flats, both having an influence on the bobbing of your bike! Just teasing a bit, but not fully. My old Slayer I still had till last year was pumping like crazy and I was on flat. Dual ring was quite the only way to go. This year I moved to a Nomad with CTD damper and single chain with a Genera Lee cassette. Wow, what a change! I'm a tiny bit more trained but not so much, and it worked. Well as the General Lee didn't work that good and I was fed up with shifting issues I moved back to 11-36 (33t at the front), but also made a switch to clip and taht still works out for me. I was actually thinking of moving to X01 but now I'm not sure anymore it would be worth the large expenses. Unless maybe for very long tours or racing. I'll stick to that for the moment and see what/if Shimano shows something interesting at Interbike.
  • + 1
 I mentioned the suspension and meant purely the kind of damper, suspension design itself is next to irrelevant. An Orange Five with well tuned Float R will demolish any VPP or FSR bike with stock Float Rp23. Clips vs flats, I honestly think it is overrated. What kind of clips, what kind of shoes? You can't just boil it down to clip in or not. Especially that most people ride small block-size pedals and stiff, tight ballerina shoes and most of them have no clue when and why clips work better, and when is it that they fail. If you ride anything else than softer Am45/Hellcat kinds of shoes on anything else than a pedal with wide platform on which the shoe stands firm on entire surface (Mallet), you compromise your balance on DHills and technical uphills. Taking a trip in the mountains on cycling version of high heels? No thank you. It's a topic for a chat in the lab, but stands no chance in confrontation with variety of terrains in the world, and various conditions they can turn to. Clips allow for higher cadence, but is your body built for higher cadence? Are you 16k RPM F1 car or 1k RPM hill climber with massive torque? What if terrain does not allow you to crank higher cadence. if there are many large rocks to negotiate between then you need to time pedalling and because you can pedal not as often as on fire road you have to make most out of each stroke. That means stomp hard, and when you stomp hard, nothing does it better than a flat pedal.

I'd cross out clipless vs flats out of that conversation without a shadow of the doubt. I'd sooner add wheel size with issues of rotating mass and contact patch. In situation where a stepping on the hard gear will make you spin out on gravel or wet root on 26", the 29er will provide all the grip needed. Your really need a semi slick in total gloop to spin out a 29er onto which in most cases you can stomp like an idiot. What about crank length?
  • + 1
 I'm afraid I will have to disagree 100% with you. If suspension design definitely have more or less sensitivity to a pedal stroke depending on the kind of transmission you will also use (in short, chainring size, and mostly cog size on your cassette). If your damper can more or less annihilate that while you're riding uphill (if the pedal platform set up is strong enough) it will not be the case when you open it by far. Alright we're talking about uphill anyway.
As for the pedals here also I'll have to disagree, especially as I ride a single chain ring on the same bike, sometimes in flats sometimes in clips. I didn't make any experiment planning and measurements of any sort but you don't need a degree in nuclear physics to understand that with flats you will mostly push like crazy each stroke with one leg (one can pull a tiny bit with the other leg but it's marginal), especially with a 1x10 setup, inducing some more bob or squat to the suspension than when riding clipped in and both push pull with your legs simultaneously. In that case the squat will be more due to the chainpull and therefore damper platform if activated or suspension design if open.
Now those wheel size! That would be something to discuss, unlike the crank length I guess Wink

oh, and for the mallet being the only right pedals for technical ups and for proper downhill, I also don't believe in that as the balance will be related to cleat position on your sole which will determine the position of your foot on the pedal. Most enduro racers actually race smaller platform like the Shimano ones (XTR trail and similar XT...) or CB Candy! The main interest of the larger platform is to have a large contact surface in case you clip off.
  • + 0
 The best pedaller ever Gunn Rhita Dahle (power to efficiency generated per pedal stroke) is not pulling pedals, she only unweighs her foot. What you are talking about is probably a feeling of pulling but what you are actualy doing is you target your main push on pedal lower on the stroke and you drag your foot longer on the ground as you would while running. Stomping is a feeling of pushing over the top allowing you to generate more power per stroke. By doing it you make it impossible to create a smooth circular movement as your leg is moving too fast at the bottom of the stroke, but you still do generate more power as if you tried to spin circles. You can and should train your flat pedal legs to unweigh the pedal as well, it's called lazy coasting leg, and clipped in riders can be equally guilty of it. It is only the target point of the stroke that makes you feel what you feel. Pulling is nr1 myth of riding in clips. Nobodys body is shaped by evolution to generate power by pulling foot up. We are made for running, hence higher cadence is recognized to be the best, as higher cadence creates movement pattern closest to the one executed by your legs while running. Because we are all unused to pull to generate power, we can do it only when we focus on doing it. Some studies are showing that pulling is a waste of energy, as you move your target zone so far down the stroke that you don't use enough "pushing" muscles which are built and wired with brain to do it. Pedal stroke is always so fast even at cadences around 50, that you can't switch fast enough from push to pull.

Suspension design, even amount of travel has little relevance, try riding a Pushed shock. Try riding a good single pivot like Five or Heckler - they are not bobby at all. When I had Nomad with pushed rp23 the upper link barely moved when pedalling on fireroad and asphalt, now on 125mm Blur TR with stock CTD, crap moves all the time. It goes for pushing as soon as winter comes.
  • + 1
 WAKIdesigns there are two camps these days, ride a single ring and push the bike up or ride with a granny and be 'slow'. THe fact is, human beings on a bicycle are the most efficient beings in nature. So i'll stick to pedaling up in 22-32 with my 2.4 HR IIs, getting passed by hikers. That way the bike gets me up the hill, i don't need to walk myself up and push the bike with me. I'm guessing i'll be a lot slower while pushing than riding. And you can stop a lot easier while pushing, since you're always standing on the ground, no need to stop and step down.
  • + 1
 So far more and more people I know ride 1x, these are all experienced riders... every single one of them said, why did they got stuck to the front mech for so long when you can have 32t front and 34-36 back. Tommorrow i will be going up Hafjell top on 36-36. We'll see if I just have a bad memory.
  • + 1
 Might be true sitting but not standing on the pedals. You definitely can pull and push. I don't have a cadence of 50 when riding uphill, this would be more than 12 km/h. That is WAY faster thank hikers.... But even with a cadence of 50 your brain would be fast enough to make the switch between push and pull. Just take your hand, move it as fast as you can left to right. Do you seriously believe it takes you more than a second to do once back and forth movement? Sure your leg is bigger and therefore has more inertia but you can do it. Believe me I've seen that despite being for long not excited about riding cliped in. And I'm still not, I have more fun on flats.
But as you are so convinced to be right, then explain me why all xc riders, 99% of enduro riders and a big chunk of DH riders do ride on clip? Why Steve Smith and Blinky as well as rat boy made the switch to clips? Just curious to here your arguments. Slipping a pedal? Ride Five ten shoes and proper pedals and the problem is over except maybe on a few DH sections at elite DH speed.
  • + 1
 32t might not be enough combined to 11t rear. That's the only problem WAKI. Enjoy Hafjell lucky man!
  • + 1
 Thanks - Yea I feel very lucky, I will try t stick to my Swedish friends so hopefully my ugly face can be on photos here. I will take the old keyboard to wave to Sven Martin! ahaha Big Grin

Location wise, unexperienced with weird things Swiss people tell me about living in Switzerland, I'd still take a chance living 2h drive from Eigers north face, working for Herzog&de Meuron office based in your home town... lucky man!
  • + 1
 Well god for you if you have friends, that are either strong/fit enough to ride with a 32-36 combo or like to push the bike up a fireroad. I don't. And you were talking about mountain runners - those will pass you no matter how you go up, wheter you ride or push the bike. You'll need to be an epicly strong cyclist, to get away from a fast mountain runner on a bike.

And just yesterday i was more or less keeping up in 22-32 with what i guess was a reasonably fast hiker/runner (someone who goes hiking regularly, but isn't a professional).

I respect that people like to hike on fire roads. I find it weird, sure, since i feel it's more efficient (and faster still, even though the gear is light) to just pedal up.

As for the clipped in, i guess the real reason is bike geometry. A few years ago the bikes were shorter and the head angles were steeper. So you needed to have your ass all the way back over the rear axle. That meant your feet were at about 45° and you had good grip in both up/down and forward/back direction (mainly up and forward, since your feet were pressing into the pedals). The seat to handlebar lenght got progressively longer over the past few years, head angles slackened and the result is that you don't need to be over the back of the bike as much. So you stand over the bike, not hang on behind it. The feet are not that sloped back anymore, so the grip on flats isn't as good anymore. So you switch to clips and get rid of all of those problems.
  • + 1
 Primoz - I hope you did not base your opinion on clips on that ridiculous article by Richard Cunningham here on PB.

I can't believe what I am reading sometimes about geometry even by the hypoteticaly smartest people. Even my favourite James Wilson got messed up lately... Your neutral, normal body position on the bike relies on 3-dimensional relation between your body CoG and contact points of you and your bike: pedals, grips and saddle - period. The actual reach, the actual seat angle determines your ridign stance. Then only after that, we can talk of relation of your CoG to wheel axles, then patches, which determine mostly bike handling, not power transfer. If we talk uphill we can talk XC bikes, which are built 90% for uphills, and the principles of XC bikes geometry hare: short wheelbase and steep angles for low speed manuverability. Long stem to provide good pedalling position and stability on downhills, given narrow bars. AM bikes got longer in TT but come with shorter stems, the actual reach hasn't changed almost at all.

So to get back to that geo-spd argument - please stand in front of the table with feet spread on the floor as if you would stand on pedals. Now put hands on the table as if you would hold the handlebars, but don't put almost any weight on them, just as you should do when riding in proper neutral stance (can explain weight distribution if you want) Now move your hands 5cm forward still keeping weight on feet. Have you noticed how little has actualy changed? Now exaggarrate move 10cm forward (while AM and DH bikes got 2cm-4cm longer in recent years) to notice what happens. In order to keep yourself centered over the BB, youneed tot straighten your arms and move your ass back. So busted - you actualy rotated your feet more back/downward than forward due to longer cockpit. Chest went slightly lower as a byproduct.
  • + 63
 People who comment on this forum seem to think they have a unique perspective on cost and value that can immediately target some new product as irrationally expensive and ridiculous. What they need to keep in mind is that at SRAM, and most any other bike component manufacturer, there are MANY REALLY SMART PEOPLE who's job it is to study the market, decide price points, and stake their goddamn jobs on how many products need to be sold in order to recoup investment. All the wise guys (and maybe girls) here are either 1) poor 2) whiney or 3) have an inflated view of their own intelligence into product marketing and production.

It costs a lot, because this stuff, along with MOST OTHER NEW THINGS, are intended to be 'aspirational'. That means, the poster of the Ferrari or Lambo on the kid's wall. Do you think that kid bitches and moans every day about that Lambo costing way too much, and he can never afford it? Its an extreme example but the fact of the world is that there are people who CAN buy it and WILL. And it MAY affect the rest of your mountain bike world but it probably WON'T and at some point in the next few years you will be riding this, or a trickle-down version of it.

Sorry for ranting. On pain meds due to a recent crash, and had a moment of (relative) clarity. I will now go back into my pain cave.
  • - 1
 You are right, we as the end user of this product have no idea what we are talking about. Companies never make misteps and we should all shut our traps and conform ourselves to their sales forecasts PS their aspiration groupo is the XX1, and though i don't think you could ever call X0 the working man's group, we all hoped that it would come a little closer to reasonable in price and we would have gladly taken a larger weight penalty for it.
  • + 6
 "there are MANY REALLY SMART PEOPLE who's job it is to study the market, decide price points, and stake their goddamn jobs on how many products need to be sold in order to recoup investment."
yes they have to judge what is the most they can sell it for in large quantities to the gullible consumerist masses.

we on the other hand have to avoid being sheeple, and realise that they are way overpriced considering the price hike over 10 speed. if we accept these prices they will decide to hike up the price even more next time round
#conspiracy theories
  • + 9
 or you could always just stick with your trusty 10 speed. nothing wrong with it.. 99.9% of the time the fault is on the rider.
  • + 7
 Yep I agree with you twozerosix these people are really smart by holding the X9 groupo in the cad files and not in production, I think people know that SRAM could make this in X9 and (if they are so smart ) in X7 tomorrow if they actually wanted to give this so called ultimate drivetrain to everyone. HelI I would be the first to go with it if they would not be A**h**** with the marketing campaign.

Waiting a few years for the development of a ''trickle down'' cog & chain drivetrain is ridiculous in 2013
  • + 3
 No, it's the same reason Ferrari doesn't make a $20K car, it's not cost effective for new tooling across all 4 ranges when not enough people will buy 7, 8, or 9 speed to warrant the cost to have it in the lower ranges. It takes more than just shoving products out the door for it to be cheaper; volume selling isn't possible when people aren't buying it. How many people do you know run a SERIOUS rig with an 8 or 9 speed drivetrain? The ONLY reason they haven't upgraded is they don't really see the need since nothing is broke. Trickle down means nothing if nobody is buying it.

The new gruppo set always has and always will be oriented towards people building a new bike, when spending the extra coin over the next model isn't as extreme as upgrading an entire group. It's a matter of the cost difference to buy for a new rig is $200 vs the cost of upgrading being $2000. The sooner the whiney people realize that perspective, the much better off the mtb community will be.
  • + 3
 @twozerosix - drive trains have one job to do, shift gears and transfer your energy to the wheels. A $100 drive train can accomplish 90% of what this accomplishes for about 90% less. What makes this "different" than the $100 drive train is that it weighs less, made with better materials, keeps your chain tight and prevents chain slap and can prevent your chain from falling off. But NONE of that is necessary in riding a bike, sure its nice to have all those features but its still a drive train just like the $100 one. Thus the product is somewhat irrationally expensive relative to what it is designed for versus what other products in its category are designed for as well.
  • + 2
 Vote with your feet. If you think it's a load of shit like I do, just don't buy it like I won't.
  • + 4
 "Still insecurity breeds high end customers in search of the perfect gadget that will solve all their shortcomings on the trail."

Absolutely. And this isn't a bike-specific thing either. Ever thumb through a damn GOLF magazine? Or overhear d-bags talking about their new drivers?

I bet marketing and sales people at a lot of bike brands lurk on PB to see what the general consensus is about a new product. Seriously. Because most of the people on here can take apart a cassette, count from 13 to 42, disassemble a disc caliper, hack a bike together from a drawer of spare parts. This is not the bulk of the riding and buying community though. Heck even a lot of people I ride with don't want to get that granular with their parts and bikes. They take it to the shop.

My point is that I doubt SRAM makes irrational choices when it comes to pricing. My bit of experience in product development and manufacturing exposed me to the scrutiny that cost/pricing have to go through when thinking of new product introductions and big companies do not take this lightly.

@prestonDH - you can take this argument to the logical end, which is that any gears aside from 1x1 are not necessary to get up and down the hill and its all up to the rider. Cyclocross Magazine did a piece on "building a race-worthy bike for cheap" - the editor (my buddy) is an extreme cheapo and bike hacker, and by hand-picking parts off used lists could build a really decent bike for a fraction of the cost of the new hot thing. On the other hand its media suicide to behave like this since it scares off advertisers. He even promotes the idea of mixing Campy shifters and Shimano derailleurs.

Agree that the costs are more invisible when blended in at the OEM level, which is where most X0 purchases will be made.
  • + 1
 @jaame - Yes! Vote with our feet! Nobody can resist the fungus!
@twozerosix - "I bet marketing and sales people at a lot of bike brands lurk on PB to see what the general consensus is about" - yes and no. Such market research is useful only for segment specific products in MTB segments in which users are often present on bike websites, so they can rely on each others opinions. Gravity MTB, Downhill in particular is an online-opinion-dependent segment because it is so small, it's members are deeply into online tech, so yes, here one might make use of "what people say most often". But the major buying force don't care for it. Even taking the elite, exclusive MTB products, let's say +500$ bikes, the majority is still in XC, AM and recently Enduro. The buying force, keeping companies fed, reads press releases and little comments, then they will remember more from PR than from critique. Because they have no time for thinking about it, they have much more things going on in life than MTB.

You also have to remember that what people say does not matter that much because product design is much more proactive than reactive process. People comment on something that's been released and when it is released, a completely new product is already in an advanced phase. You can't go around sites for inspiration for a new product by seeing "what people want", because they "don't want". They canno want something that isn't there. Few people might wanted wide bars, XX1 or dropper posts, but that's a blurry idea, not a demand. Nobody demanded clutch rear mechs to be developed. There is a huge online demand for Gearbox - Gearboxes are perfectly available - how many do you see on trails? is Zerode a best seller? Big companies don't respond to demand, they create it. 29ers - they were there since ages, Niner or Salsa had them well dialed, but it was the push from big companies that made them "available" to the buying force.

To conclude: People rarely buy what they say they want to buy.
  • + 1
 @WaKIdesigns I generally agree with what you are saying but i think that the root of what people want and demand is from their purchase is to perform a certain function. Then they speculate on some way of achieving that. You are right that no one asked for a dropper post but people wanted a way to adjust their seat on the fly so they wouldn't have to disrupt their flow while riding. No one specifically asked for a clutch rear der but people wanted fewer chain drops and less chain slap and some smart engineer figured out that clutch der could do that, and then the public generally accepted it. In the same way people didn't like dropped chains from their multi ring cranks but wanted to keep their gear range so another (or maybe the same) brilliant engineer came up with the idea of a wider range rear cassette with a single ring crank. The Hammerschmidt crank was an attempt to solve this problem that didn't gain acceptance because in the end people thought the system was too heavy and not easy enough to service (same for the Zerode with an internal hub and the gearbox bikes), i.e. not a good solution for their needs.

Big companies certainly have a certain amount of clout but it doesn't operate the way you presented it. They don't create demand for a product. They exploit latent demand and then you see a surge in the uptake of a technology because the big companies have such a large following and large marketing budgets with which makes consumers aware of their solution to the consumers wants/needs and can bring the technologies to market at a lower price with economies of scale. Sometimes they are a hit and stand the test of time sometimes not (hydraulic brakes are here to stay, but hammerschmidt is fizzling out).

To conclude: People always try to buy what they say they want to buy but sometimes due to imperfect information (usually generated by overhyped marketing) don't get what they want.
  • + 1
 Thanks for your insight freestylAM, made me think a lot Wink
  • + 23
 It just looks so clean, I really like it!! But then everything is darn expensive . .
  • + 20
 pfffft $1300? I could buy a WHOLE bike for that
  • + 23
 Not with a 1x11 drivetrain though.
  • + 16
 If you have 1200 to spend on a groupset you will no doubt be able to stretch to the xx1 meaning this is a completely pointless exercise. Why does the same kind of retail impact/discount not apply to xx1? Never heard so much nonsense in my life. If manufacturers can pay $400 less fo x01 compared to xx1 then why cant the consumer? Absolute marketing gumf. There is a lot of it in the cycling world but this gets my 2013 'Marketing BS of the year' award. Please SRAM we havent all crawled out from under a rock this year
  • + 3
 The $400 figure is pulled out of the air, and is also meant to be our guesstimate as to how much less expensive a COMPLETE X01 bike would go for compared to a XX1 bike. I hear you on the marketing, that gets old, but I simply don't see how getting a group that is essentially XX1 on a bike for roughly $400 less is a bad thing.
  • + 7
 Its not a bad thing. Its just not really a big enough difference to call it a different groupo.

Maybe call it XX1 OEM. But they are launching it under the X01 moniquer and the price diff just isn't big enough to fool any of us that this is really something different. They've haven't redesigned anything or put anything through a different or cheaper manufacturing process (like say not carving that cassette out of a single CNC'd block of aluminum but rather putting cogs on an alunimum spider body).They just skips a few small steps and called it X01.

We were all hopping that the 'trickle down' would trickle down a little further to a price point we can afford. Tell you what, make it another 40 grams heavier and another $400 cheaper and they would have my money.
  • + 1
 Im sure they would be happy to give you the $400 discount if you bought hundreds of group sets at a time!
  • + 4
 Maybe you didn't read my post. I wasn't asking for the same product at 400 less. I was asking them for a heavier clunkier product that costs less to make and therefore costs me less money.

SRAM could have made the X01 with cheaper manufacturing techniques and materials that result in a heavier and less exacting product which they could then sell at a cheaper price point, possibly even maintaining the same profit margins, because my personal preference (and i gather a great many others) says that the functionality of a wide range single ring groupo is something i desire and i could live with the weight/performance penalty.
  • + 4
 But now it comes in BLACK!!!
  • + 0
 read the comment 2 above yours chief
  • + 6
 I think folks should take a look at some OEM pricing. Here is an example for you:
ibis hdr spec'd at XX1 $6499.
Spec'd at XO1 $5599. They keep the rear mech, shifter and cassette and spec a TRS+ crank, bb, and ring to get there. XT brakes instead of XTR. Swap saddle and seatposts (which you'd ditch for a dropper and your own seat anyways). Everything else is the same. BTW, that's lighter and the same price as XT with the same cranks.

Still think the XO1 pricing wont save you any money? I for one am considering SRAM for the first time because of XO1.
  • + 1
 Bike mfg's get HUGE discounts on components. SRAM most likely goes so far as to include at least one or more for "free" when a bike is spec'd with an entire gruppo....RS fork, shock, and Reverb, Avid brakes, Sram drivetrain and wheelset. Fox has a hard time with this as they pretty much only have suspension to offer, and yet builders pricing is lower than wholesale in their pricing scheme. This is why Shimano for years had the industry tied up as they were able to offer a complete component kit. Shimano filed over 100 patents last year in regard to suspension design, so, who knows....maybe we'll see Shimano forks and shocks in the near future?
  • + 15
 Cost way way to much
  • + 2
 I agree it costs too much. However, if you can afford it, and if you already have a high power to body weight ratio, XX1 and the weights savings that come with it do help get more podiums in endurance and XC races. In my early twenties, I could not have afforded this, but now I can and I'm racing at a high enough level that it really does help. I do see many people buying this stuff that could stand to shed 15 or 20 pounds easily, and for them it is a bit of a waste of money IMO.
  • + 13
 Wish this was a XT group. Come on Shimano!!! The simplicity of this setup is so appealing.
  • - 1
 Theyve already got 11 speed Dura-Ace, and theres no big push for them considering Campagnolo had 11 speed baout 6 years ago. I really dont see why they havent got an 11 speed mtb setup. Would make so much more sense.
  • + 2
 they have patents for 14 speed or some such, so the (baseless) speculation is that they're going to release that instead of a 11 speed competitor.
  • + 8
 I totally get what SRAM does and is doing, although I don't agree with it. I'm not sure what advantage the guy next to me riding a 1 x 11 gets over me and I have a 2 x 9. Yes, I still have 9 because I, at 43, don't have the extra funds to splurge on a new drivetrain (I have kids). I ride very aggressively and technical, but also climb. That thing in front, what is that, a derailleur (?) is working just fine and I've thrashed rear derailleurs, not front. Dropping chains? If you seriously DH or jump, but I've got more chains caught out back than in front. My riding buddy got a new 29" HT with 1 x 10. His granny gear, 32/36 is not tall enough for our steep climbs. Unfortunately, the spider prevents him from going anything smaller than a 32. The SRAM D/R? X7 that has a high range of 36. So he's screwed. He needs a 38 or 40 out back - but can't.

I progressively saw the need for this 1 x ___ as a means to fit a shorter chainstay on the 29er to allow that bike to ride more like a 26". Since the chainstay is so short, no FD can fit, therefore, a solution had to be found. This lead to the 1 x 10/11 on the 29'ers and now that drivetrain has trickled down to the 26/27.5 crowd. So the solution to a problem is now being pushed onto the consumer where there is not problem on bikes which don't really require the need for a single ring. What was wrong with finding your gear choice and roll with a guide? Was the front derailleur so terrible it had to go? If so, the SRAM Hammerschmidt didn't really take off did it?

I've been riding mtn bikes for 25+ years and I never thought, "damn, I wish this FD was gone". To throw down more than $1,000 on a drivetrain is silly if you truly can't customize it for your own needs and terrains. BTW - I ride SRAM.
  • + 1
 I'm in the same boat, about the same age. I run a 3x9 with XTR shifters and an XT shadow on 2 different 26er hardtails. My first bike in 91' had 3x7 with a 28 rear. You needed the granny, but now, truthfully our hills aren't steep enough for me to not need more out of 32x34 setup. In the spring I will drop to the 22 granny, cuz of fitness. I do use the 44 front because I sometimes ride on the road and don't have a road bike. I do have a set of 700c wheels for the road. But this time of year, even in Kettle Moraine, I don't long for another gear, just keep it in the middle ring all day. Haven't lost a chain in I don't know how long, even a drop to the granny. What I can't wrap my head around is the price of the replacement parts. Like the cassette is about $400, $369 from some websites. That's a damagable/wearable part. My legs have a ton of torque and I have damaged the 34t on cassettes just by pedalling (2 SRAM 990's. Have XT's now, no issues). Both of my Hope freehub bodies are cracked. A new 1x11 cassette WOULD be a set of hubs. $400 is a lot when you have other things to pay for. I need to replace the front 320mm floating rotor, rear tire and fork spings on my supermoto bike, that's $400.

I can see where some people will benefit from 1x11, but the gearing isn't for me and the price is even more not for me..
  • + 7
 Eeerrrmm... whenever I run out of low gears to get up a steep hill I get off my bike and walk up, if the hill is 'that' steep walking generally isn't any slower - this product definitely fulfils a need that doesn't exist for me!
However I recently went into my local sports A-mart and now even complete bikes as low as $400 have Hydroformed alloy frames, integrated A-headsets, flawless dérailleur shifting, lockout suspension, IS disc brake mounts, seat tubes wide enough for a dropper post and weigh next to nothing all because of trickle down technology [and Chinese mfr'ing]... Yes Xx/Xo1 is insanely priced, but in a few years similar stuff will be on A-mart/Walmart bikes too, so don't worry the price will come down if the design is legit and catches on!
p.s. did everyone forget that even a brand new standard 9 spd setup with a front shifter will hold the chain on just fine over rough stuff for the first 6 months until the chain/sprockets wear a bit, I am massively sceptical about this products ability to perform after a year or two's wear, the replacement costs are far too high.
  • + 11
 Initial impressions...still too f*ckin' expensive.
  • + 3
 And that's not even counting the cost to upgrade your hub...or buy a new one if you can't...then you have to get your wheel rebuilt...$$$$$$$$
  • + 2
 It's not inexpensive, but both XX1 and X01 are less expensive than XTR and XT ($1,313.90 USD).
  • + 1
 But XX1 and X01 are holding their value right now compared to XT or XTR. I can get a complete XT drivetrain with brakes and rotors for under 800 right now. But I guess when you're new; everyone wants to be the coolest kid on the block.
  • + 6
 The most expensive part in the group is a wear item that's half the cost of a good fork to replace. Until they can get the cost of manufacturing the cassette down to a decent price, it's just not realistic for the majority of riders. And honestly I was surprised/disappointed to hear of such a low price difference between the 2 when X01 was first announced. Not to mention many hub manufacturers still don't have the XX1 freehub bodies available and even when they do it's going to add around $150-$200 to that price. Chris King is apparently having problems figuring out how they'll do one with their ring drive.
  • + 7
 i already run a 9-speed 36T rear cassette with 32T front race face narrow wide chainring. all for 9-speed SLX/XT prices. the chainring is only $37. Cassette was $45. chain $35. used XT shadow rear derailleur $50. SLX rear shifter pod $50. that's $317 total for a 9-speed setup that goes to 36T in the rear. you could get the SRAM 1:1 shifter/Shimano shadow+ mod for just a few bucks more and have 10-speed.
  • + 7
 That is a slick setup that makes a lot of sense. Not to defend SRAM here, but their 1x drivetrains offer a much wider gearing range, though, which is why these two groups can be used by riders in places that a 11-36, 32T ring can't. Having said that, there are quite few strong local riders here who have absolutely zero troubles with a setup that mirrors yours. Nicely done.
  • + 5
 Yes but you don't get the low end gearing. If you can push that ratio around your trails then that is definitely the way to go but i imagine that the gnarliest race courses demand a lower gear ratio and that the average mountain biker also demands a lower gear ratio. So the answer is simple. Make a cassette with a lower gear ratio (38 or 40 or 42) and let the gaps between gears be damned. I didn't notice that at all when i went from 9 to 10 so why not put that to good use with a wider ranged cassette. Get on it Shimano.
  • + 2
 i do wish my front ring was a 30T now so i hear what yall are saying. but then top end suffers, so we need a 9 or 8T small cog in back!! but whatever, just ride more and i'll be strong enough to not notice it. Smile . and i agree, if sram has a 42T cassette, why hasn't Shimano sold a similar one yet, even at 10speed.

and SHIT - my math was wrong up top - it's supposed to add up to $217 which is way less than my error and now i'm realizing just how inexpensive this setup is. i'll use the $1k i just saved on forks/wheels/brakes thankyouverymuch.
  • + 1
 If you aren't racing, or are on a tighter budget, then there is nothing wrong with a 1x9 or 1x10. However, if you are racing at a high level, you will be at significant disadvantage compared to an equally strong competitor on a 1x11 at some point in the race. 1x11 has a much wider gearing range than a 1x10. This allows you to have a low enough gear of long climbs, but not to get spun out on high speed sections. This is why so many are willing to pay the high prices for 1x11 if they can afford it!
  • + 8
 If they have streamlined manufacturing and cut costs at the OEM level, why doesn't this seem to translate to MSRP?
I'm looking into building a 10speed version for less than half the price. I'll just make 10 louder.
  • + 4
 one reason: on the OEM level they used x9 level crankarms (aluminum) and for the aftermarket x01, they just used the same carbon crankarms that are used on the xx1. and for some other silly reason, they decided to keep the rear derailleur cage carbon on the x01 as it is on the xx1. unnecessary costs in both cases IMO. taking these out wouldve made the MSRP for x01 less and could have possibly avoided all this negative banter that SRAM is getting.
  • + 2
 Because it is business? And when there is virtually no competition on this category, except for the more expensive XX1, why to lower the prices if these are still selling? Of course they could sell more if the price would be lower, but that will again would lower gross margin per unit sold. So sadly it is only business and mathematics...

Then again, my crystal ball tells that there will come X9 and X7 level groups in the (near?) future that will have less carbon and price...
  • + 6
 and my crystal ball is telling me that sram have left a giant whole for shimano to fill now that all of srams cards are on the table
  • + 3
 I think company like SRAM has already plans for this too, if Shimano suddenly pops up with cheaper 11speed/wide range groupset, surprise surprise, SRAM will pop up with the X9/7 level groupset(s) rather quickly, with comparable pricing...
  • + 1
 hole*
  • + 6
 same performance.... only slightly lower price.....

RaceFace n/w.... And maybe shimano can step up and make a slightly wide range cassette.... Good to go.
  • + 2
 Completely agree. the only thing we need is a wide range cassette from Shimano. And i guess maybe a der that is designed to work with that kind of wide range, and maybe even a parrallel path since it doesn't need to worry about chainline changing from switches between gears up front
  • + 4
 Maybe I missed it in the article, but what does this "New Technology" do for me? I don't really struggle with chainguide performance, I installed the chainguide, the chain has stayed put with no problems.
I do think that the price of most bicycles and bicycle parts is way, way too inflated.
The current bike pricing reminds me of the "housing bubble" era here in the US. People were paying millions of dollars for the same houses that at the moment cost 1/4 of old price (same house for 1/4 of the price). Real state firms made a ton of money off people's ignorance.
People keep paying way too much for bike parts and in order to not feel ripped off they make themselves believe that the new expensive parts made a difference (when deep inside they know it didn't it). I do understand that in the world of racing, new technology makes a difference, but for the average rider it probably won't.
Bla bla bla bla bla.
In my opinion the rider makes most of the difference, not expensive parts.
  • + 4
 Looks nice and Id love it on my bike but............

deore clutch mech + any other companies thick/thin chainring isnt gonna be that different
assuming youve already got a clutch mech, you can keep the same cranks
.....
and if hope ever release their 10-36 cassette mod for their hubs (id guess about 70 quid?). with a raceface thick/thin 30t chainring (50 quid)

well thats more or less the same as the SRAM setup for a 10th of the cost!!
  • + 2
 Hope's alternative is a 9-36 cassette, not a 10-36. Smile
Yeah, it's even better than you thought! Smile
  • + 3
 Chris King doesn't have an 11spd driver yet so my next build will be rocking a Raceface narrow wide 30t, SRAM 1070 10spd cassette with a General Lee 40tooth cassette adaptor and a medium cage clutch deraileur. No need to downgrade my king hub and I save a bunch on money over this 11spd stuff. Why can't SRAM or shimano just make a larger tooth 10spd cassette?
  • + 3
 It's great that x01 is cheaper but the parts that need replacing on a regular basis are still the same price (400 cassette). I'll stick with my 1x10 with rf narrow wide ring thank you very much.
  • + 6
 Good point. The cassette is the major factor in the group's price... it wouldn't be crazy to expect a non-X Dome, pinned cassette in the future that drops another few hundred off of the group's MSRP.
  • + 0
 What is the wear like on the rings and cassette? I have heard that the front rings wear out quite quickly on xx1 which stands to reason because the job isn't shared with another ring. How true is this? I imagine that chain sales will also skyrocket as riders swop out chains more often to keep their expensive cassettes happy for longer...
  • + 1
 I would have thought that the ring would wear out less quickly than on a multi ring system because i have heard it said that shifting from ring to ring and derailing the the chain from one to the other causes the most wear on a ring. But that being said, i have always noticed that the ring that i spend the most time in is the one which wears out the quickest (but that could be because i shift to it the most). I don't know
  • + 5
 I've had no problems running 1x9 or 1x8 before that. Thank you SRAM but I can live without your 1x11.
  • + 2
 RRP does not really reflect on what you will actually pay. Example: Full XX1 group set in New Zealand - $1500 NZD. At current exchange, approx $1190 USD.
If we are only paying that here, with a market a lot smaller than one US state, you are hardly likely to be paying $1200 USD for the XO1 group set.
  • + 3
 Fashion group... they will charge any price since some riders are fashion addict... lower group with carbon crank and higher gears just dont make sence... but they try to make you think its normal... oh next year will be....
  • + 2
 True innovation would deprecate the old technology. In this case, the chain would disappear from the bike and be replaced with another method of human input.

The actual plan is to squeeze every last consumer dollar out of the old technology before the transition phase, in which both technologies pretend to compete, thereby increasing the TAM (total available market) in the short term, while ensuring that those who are entrenched in both the old and new technologies can maximize profit in the long term.

Another example would be to deprecate the seat post. (ala southpark)
www.hondashadow.net/forum/53-general-discussion/117094-theme-bike-crazydave.html
  • + 3
 28T bling ring on SRAM X9 with a 11-36 in the back. This allows me to climb pretty much anything there is. Now can we get a bling ring with those alternating teeth like raceface so I can ditch the guide
  • + 1
 THIS
  • + 4
 Wolf tooth do a GPX ring. Love mine!
  • + 3
 It's normal, or the "teeth" of the gears seem smaller than usual ?
I use a 8 speeds gear and they are a lot bigger than these.
  • - 7
flag ryancoonya (Aug 20, 2013 at 13:54) (Below Threshold)
 8 speed? Really? I think I saw one of those at walmart one time.
  • + 15
 @ryancoonya - Don't want to blow your mind or anything, but my first mountain bike had a 6 speed groupset. 8 speed was luxury high-end, and surely no-one needed that many gears!

Damn kids, get off my lawn!
  • + 4
 I still ride 8 speed, not much wrong with it
  • - 4
flag ryancoonya (Aug 20, 2013 at 14:31) (Below Threshold)
 ... And my first mountain bike had 6 speeds too, it doesn't mean I still ride it. There are great progressions that have happened since then.
  • + 0
 My 1st Mtb only had 1 gear & so does my new one...
  • + 1
 @ryancoonya My bike isn't from a "walmart" like you have in the USA, just build it with what I need from the begining ! And no problems with him...
I also ride with a fixie bike for the road, can't break something because there is nothing to break, not like in your "perfect bike with 10 or 11 speeds, hydrolics brakes, 200mm forks" and other..... Wink

Oh, and I also have a modified dirt bike with a 100mm fork to do DH/Freeride, single speed too, 1 mecanic discs brakes and 1 hydrolic, and I can go everywhere I want with him and do some single tracks with a lot of kilometers with him.
A problem with that ? Not everybody have a big salary to buy perfects bikes. I ride with what I find and can build.
  • + 1
 Not enough differentiation to justify buying the more expensive one. 30 grams? Seriously, why would you ride an XX1 bike with this out, aside from the ego implications. That being said, I'd just assume buy a 1x10 chain ring if I were going to go this route, but (FOR ME) the advantage of being able to jump up 1 chainring as opposed to jump down 3 rear shifts is so much nicer cresting hills. I'll live with a half pound + guide for that extra range / quality of life improvement.
  • + 2
 I have this set ordered for my Ibis Ripley, which I should get Thursday from Cowichan Cycles in Duncan . Hopefully be riding by the weekend if the border doesn't cause me any grief !! Smile
  • + 5
 "Same Technology, Less Money" MSRP: $1,273 USD...Really?
  • + 3
 technically true, but not a whole lot less.
  • + 3
 No one's is forcing you guys to buy it... but in a world where people pay $2k+ for carbon wheels is $1k+ for a revolutionary drive-train really that bad??
  • + 7
 Yea lots of people on this site seem so poor. Poor people piss me off!
  • + 0
 but when they keep harping on about the trickle down tech being available on 2014 bikes, just stinks of marketing BS.
  • + 1
 Agreed poor people are miserable, do you people not have trust funds or something?

And I think the big scheme behind the X01 is that it WILL be much more affordable when spec'd on complete builds for 2014. So the idea is to make 1x11 build bikes available to the masses, as opposed to 2013 when most xx1 build bikes were like $8-10k. I agree that is an annoying ploy to get you to buy a whole new bike and make it harder to upgrade your existing bike... but oh well. The cost of both XX1 and X01 really don't seem too bad to me relative to XTR and X0 stuff anyway. Hopefully some day they can make the 10x42 cassette at a reasonable price, maybe if they make enough for OEM stuff this season they'll be able to get the price down for 2015?
  • + 2
 no wonder why my legs are so big since I ride with only 9 spd... if you are a man, stop complaining and ride what you have and for fun cause this was made for those who can't even ride up a hill
  • + 3
 Congratulations on being so huge and great, but real men ride 7spd with top mount shifters and no suspension.
  • + 1
 "With consumers asking for a much more affordable single-ring, eleven speed group"

Really? Is that what the consumers are asking for? A single ring eleven speed group? I was kinda hoping we would get to see a wide range 10 speed group with a 42 available on a cassette.

Just sayin.

But all the other consumers want the eleven speed.
  • + 5
 do people really have that much trouble adjusting a front derailleur?
  • + 2
 No, but most bike designers like the idea of not having to deal with going through the difficulties of making their bikes work "well enough" with multiple fd manufacturers specifications and the various crank and chainring combinations that will inevitably be used.
  • + 1
 There is sooo much hype about those single ring drivetrains, yet this idea is still a big compromise between low and high gears, price, and there is no chain retention system. At the same time, a much more well thought solution, the Truvativ Hammerschidt has been pushed to the far margin of the market. With Hammerschmidt you also get one ring at the front but with a bashguard and chain retention so you don't have to worry about losing your chain or grinding it against rocks. Instant shifting comes as a bonus, with or without pedalling, anytime. With a 24t ring at the front and an 11-34 cassette, you get the 24/34 lowest gear and 38/11 highest gear - enough for every type of terrain. Oh, and yes, the chainset is relatively expensive, about £400, but you won't think so when you finally have to replace the worn off £320 XX1 cassette. SRAM PG990 or PG1070 cassettes are £50 and the single 22t or 24t ring for chainset about the same amount.
I am not saying it's perfect - the fact that you need an ISCG 05 mount on your frame to be able to fit Hammerschmidt is one problem as not all the frames have it. The other is somewhat annoying buzz when in overdrive mode (it's planetary gearing) but it is acceptable. I sport this chainset for about two seasons on a SC Bullit and wouldn't change it for any other crank. Works exactly as it was promised, no issues whatsoever and instant shifting. I think this option is worth consideration as an alternative to 1x11.
  • + 4
 Given how hard SRAM pushes a technology when they want to, I forsee x9-1 and maybe even x7-1 in the future...
  • + 8
 I think SRAM is waiting for Shimano to release their version of a 1xwhatever before they release the X91 and X71. Make as much money as you can and then kick the other guy in the balls when he presents his version.
  • + 2
 muahahaha. Well given shimano's hesitation to do anything new/risky (perhaps a factor in why shimano is often more reliable?)...that might well be a while. But hey, shimano would be welcomed in proving me wrong.
  • + 1
 Shimano s waaay ahead, cheaper and more reliablle.
  • + 1
 Mixed bag with both. They both put out some good shit with decent price tags (that said, SRAM is generally a good deal cheaper than shimano), but i wouldn't say either is really that far ahead of the curve. More competition in mtb drivetrain manufacturing would change that though.
  • + 1
 Brake wise shimano ae soo much better, drive trains, sram on my am works and it does the job though I am just a shimano guy myself.
  • + 1
 Fasho. All pre-2012 avids I've used have been absolute junk, but the 2012 9's I got on warranty have been nothing but cherry... Anyways, I'm all for companies pushing the sport further, but at the end of the day what brakes and drivetrain you have are a distant second to the ride itself Smile
  • + 1
 big part OF the ride
  • + 1
 I just bought a Zee derailleur and put it to work with my old 9-speed cassette and Sram X9 lever. A small spacer there where the wire attaches on the der, and it's good to go. When getting back in Barcelona from XC-oriented Finland, I'll buy Raceface narrow-wide ring to take me down the hills. That combo will keep the chain on practically as well as XX1, so in the end the price difference of about 1000€ would be in 2 extra gears and wider ratio. Ridiculous.
  • + 1
 As mentioned, I'm running a type2 mech, 11-36 10 speed and a race face narrow/wide ring, no guide, flawless, even on rough trails, If my next bike came with an xo1 group I wouldn't be mad though!!
  • + 1
 Ridiculous price tag. There's no getting away from that. As with all top end gear the average rider doesn't need it. This won't revolutionise your riding. Buy a road bike for a fraction of that and get fit over winter.
  • + 1
 trickle-down effect boys, you'll all have to wait until 2020 for a cheap 1x11 set up, as for us already running this, the simplicity and range is well worth shelling out some hard earned cash
  • + 1
 It' all in the tooth profile of the chain ring.

what's next? a chain guide less DH bike. (this will trickle down to DH bikes).

Death of the chain guides!

Rear derailleurs, still alive and kicking.
  • + 0
 Here is one thing these 'couch engineers' on here forget. To truly have the range, you need a 10 tooth cog. You CANNOT do that on a standard cassette body. Therefore, simply adding a bigger cog does not address the entire issue of using one chainring upfront. SRAM employs actual ROCKET SCIENTISTS to design, build, and test these products before you even see them available. So, consider this before posting all your knowledge and experience of a vast 4 years or so. Price? guess hwta. Technology starts somewhere, and usually NOT on the cheap end. It costs money to build the latest parts. You cant have a 25 lb bike thats industructible AND cheap. It will not and has not ever happened. If 1990s technology works for you..great! But dont get on threads saying thats all anyone needs.
  • + 1
 unless you are lucky enough to be running a hope hub when their 9-36 cassette finally lands, september allegedly.......

www.pinkbike.com/news/Ten-Speed-and-the-Nine-Tooth-Cassette-Cog.html
  • + 1
 I put on a Race Face Narrow Wide 30T up front and a 12-36T in back on my decrepit 2006 RM Switch... I am now a fat guy that can climb with no mech issues!
Cost me $100.

Of course my next bike upgrade will have X01!
  • + 0
 Why the f*** dont you fadists just get yourselves a god damn front derailleur. Stupid people saying that having a single ring up front simplifies things, f*** that! It gives you a proper range of gears. I'm actually so tired of seeing this 1x?? shit. i thought 1x10 was stupid, this is just getting ridiculous. All this extra expense just to be limited to one ring...
  • + 2
 1273$ Will i go faster ? Will it prevent it to break if i crash it on a trail ?
  • + 1
 and here's me with 3 rings up front but only enough chain to freely use the lower 2 cuz i can't justify a proper 2x setup yet....
  • + 2
 i major problem with this product, SRAM make it. Over priced plastic products. Shimano all the way
  • + 1
 Yes its expensive but its one of the newest technologies out there and if you have ridden one, you would agree that 1x11 is pretty awesome
  • + 3
 My X9 1x10 works just fine thank you!
  • + 3
 $1300 starting point. 2 words.... F@&^ That.
  • + 4
 1x10 rf n/w Nuff said
  • + 1
 All you need to do is wait a couple more years and you`ll be able to buy the "X7"1 with the same performance as the present X01 at 1/5 of the price...
  • + 1
 Not needing a chainguide is great and all, till you bash that rock in front of you and end up adding another 200 bucks to that start up fee.
  • + 2
 "Same Technology, Less Money"
Sram X11 1200euros
Sram X01 1000euros

u must be fu**ng kidding me
  • + 3
 Do you actually pay retail prices?
  • + 1
 Are you in the process of doing a comprehensive review on the Schwalbe Magic Mary and Rock Razor? Asking since the first pic is a possible tease.
  • + 1
 Dont care about the drivetrain, but looking forward to your impressions of the Lapierre, hope you give us a detailed comparison with the Spesh enduro!
  • + 1
 I don't know if I like it. It's still shit compared to my bikes drivetrain. It's a 1997 exclusive jeep model
  • + 2
 Sick! I've wanted 1 since last year.
  • + 1
 First post explains why this is a fail.... sram = garbage... and the price.. wow the price. Lol
  • + 2
 SRAM IS GARBAGE COMPARED TO SHIMANO
  • + 1
 i always though you get what you pay for but, not when they call it carbon and slap a huge price tag on it
  • + 2
 Watch out for new shimano gear in the next couple of weeks!
  • + 2
 I'm actually pretty happy you can get a black cassette
  • + 1
 But not a black chain...
  • + 1
 I ride with a black chain on a 9 sped DH bike.
  • + 2
 Can't be mad at SRAM for pimping those wanting to look pimp.
  • + 2
 Thinking about running this on my kona stinky so I can hillclimb easier!!
  • + 1
 Imo if a 11-36t 32t ring wont get you up it youre probably going the wrong direction if not just hike it
  • + 2
 I like inovation. I don't like exploitation!!!
  • + 1
 Hey everyone go ride your bikes and stop bitchin
  • + 0
 Just no way..... we know its good, that's not the point... That price? You kidding me...
  • + 1
 A drive train for successful dentists. Good for them!
  • + 1
 1.2k? I will pretend I didn't read this article. This must be a joke!!!
  • + 2
 we don't need that
  • - 1
 I SELL SRAM FOR EVER IN MY SHOP ITS #1 AND WE WILL STILL SELL SRAM FOR EVER ,YOU ROCK SRAM _____O^O_____
  • + 3
 Good for you captain! Nothing like having all of your eggs in one basket. Do you wear SRAM underwear while watching your SRAM orders flying out the door?
  • + 0
 Waiting for the X91...
  • - 1
 Sooo nice but such a price. Great rhyme ae?
  • - 2
 love it cant wait for it to come on sale
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