Vivo Cycling Previews All-Aluminum 12-Speed Derailleur

Apr 24, 2024
by Mike Kazimer  
photo

Back in the mid-1990s there was an influx of small companies machining their own derailleurs. Not all of them worked well, but they sure looked nice - teenage me drooled over the purple anodized Precision Billet Proshift derailleur. Nowadays, the drivetrain landscape is dominated by the two big S brands, but that hasn't stopped other manufacturers from trying to get a piece of the pie.

Earlier this year, Vivo Cycling announced their ultra-customizable (and very expensive) shifter, which allowed buyers to select everything from the paddle shape to the cable tension adjuster's design. They're now working on a derailleur to go along with it, and the initial images certainly are eye-catching.

According to John Calendrille, the company's owner (who has a long history of drivetrain development, dating back to the anodized-everything days I mentioned earlier), the new derailleur is constructed from 7075 aluminum and is devoid of any plastic parts. It's designed to work with 12-speed cassettes with up to a 10 - 52 tooth range.

photo
Machined from 7075 aluminum, with cartridge bearings at the pivots.

There are two cartridge bearings at each pivot, for a total of eight, plus a sealed cartridge bearing at the cable pulley. All the hardware is titanium, and the preliminary weight with nylon pulley wheels is claimed to be 315 grams. For reference, Shimano's XTR 12-speed derailleur is 240 grams.

The derailleur is designed to work with Vivo's own shifter, but it should play nicely with SRAM shifters; compatibility with Shimano shifters hasn't been confirmed yet, due to the slightly different cable pull ratio. The derailleur is designed to be fully rebuildable, including the friction clutch, which is also adjustable.

The final price is expected to be somewhere between $315 - $375 when it officially launches later this summer.

photo
There will be nylon and aluminum pulley wheel options.
photo
Vivo's F3 shifter.




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Reviews and Tech First Looks Drivetrain Vivo Vivo Prototype


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149 Comments
  • 111 7
 It is gorgeous, but heavier and more expensive than XTR is a hard sell. Especially since XTR is sooooo nice.
  • 82 23
 XTR still a faster shift than the other guys electric shifting options...
  • 39 6
 @dan23dan23: From what I understand about the SRAM transmission stuff, faster shifting wasn't the goal and it was designed fully aware that the shifting was going to be slower. It is more of an "easy does it" approach.

That said, still riding a Shimano Zee mech and shifter combo here Smile .
  • 54 13
 @vinay: Oh yeah, I am fully aware of what their marketing team explains as the reason for the slow shift... It's just so slow that my ADHD doesn't like it, same reason I don't watch paint dry...

Grabbing gears after a steep climb is the worst. You can dump 4 gears with XTR by the time the transmission drops a single gear.
  • 9 8
 @dan23dan23: I’m not a huge fan of the Axs and transmission stuff. But my gravel/road bike came with it. And in the app you can set it to shift x number of gears with a button press. I haven’t messed with it. But that’s what I gather from the apps walk through. That said it’s been pretty great on that bike. Not sure I would jump to spend that much for a mountain bike drive train when the cable stuff from everyone works so well and is light and relatively cheap.
  • 17 0
 I have to agree. I'm in the camp of "if it serves my purposes (big emphasis on reliability) then I don't care what the level or brand it is". I have Eagle XX1, X01, and Shimano 12 speed XT, but my latest bike came with 12spd XTR on it and its just incredible.
  • 10 8
 @vinay: yep. purposefully slow, to allow full gas shifts with zero worry. its a tradeoff they clearly thought the market would appreciate.


time will tell!
  • 26 0
 @vinay: I’ve spent all fall on Transmission while nice and all it definitely seems like it was intended for ebikes. Incidentally it worked best on the one ebike I demoed. It was nice and shifted really smooth most of the time, but Fast on demand shifting is why I switched to SRAM nearly 20 years ago. Transmission fails in that regard. So I sold the Transmission group and picked up a fresh cable XX1 group that shifts way faster and on demand at less than half the price. Oh it’s lighter as well. I would love to see a cable version of the transmission derailleur because there are definite benefits to its design. Maybe it’s just me but I’m still not ready for electronics or motors on my bike.
  • 5 4
 The funny thing about that is these types of CNC Derailleurs were beginning to take off in the 1990's and Shimano introduced the XTR 950 groupset with V-Brakes. These types of derailleurs disappeared over night. The CNC V-brakes disappeared also because the XTR's were so good and Shimano used predatory pricing to kill the competition.
  • 9 23
flag Mtbdialed (Apr 24, 2024 at 17:56) (Below Threshold)
 @Henchman21: wtf is "predatory pricing"? given, you know.....a free market? LOL
  • 29 0
 @Mtbdialed: its when you price at a loss because you can afford to not make profit for a longer period of time then your competitors. Then you make all your cutbacks and raise you prices.

Like redbox vs blockbuster, or Amazon vs everything.
  • 8 0
 @dan23dan23: exactly my thoughts, can't shift faster up or down a cassette than xtr in any situation
  • 3 5
 @Bikethrasher: I don't think there can be a cable version of transmission since it has no limit screws or b tension. Every dimension of how it interacts with the frame and cassette is fixed and having cables would make that impossible since they require adjustment wouldn't it?
  • 35 0
 @warmerdamj, there could definitely be a cable version - you can even see a drawing of one in this patent drawing from SRAM: www.pinkbike.com/news/sram-granted-patent-for-drivetrain-with-a-direct-mount-derailleur.html.

Not having limit screws or b-tension adjustment isn't related to the electronic shifter - that's part of the derailleur design. The cable running from the shifter would just be there to move the derailleur up or down the cassette, the same as the current shifter does wirelessly. I'm hoping SRAM releases one eventually - a battery-free version would be great.
  • 3 0
 @mikekazimer: well then.
  • 4 1
 @Henchman21: Have you no shame, sir!?! HAVE YOU NO SHAME!!?!?!?!
www.disraeligears.co.uk/site/paul_powerglide_rasta_derailleur.html
AND
www.paulcomp.com
  • 1 1
 @Mtbdialed: its the same as cnc parts were utter shit and replaced by parts that work ,
  • 4 0
 Yea and xtr comes with a crabon fibre cage
  • 5 0
 @Bikethrasher: You're definitely correct, Transmission is an ebike drivetrain and nothing more IMO. It is great on an ebike because the slow shifting is basically a non-issue and it shifts so well under load. Whenever I ride an ebike I notice that I never need to dump gears and it's actually better to shift one by one while keeping the power on and the cadence up.

Whenever I'm back on my real bike I need to dump gears often and transmission just can't do that... Mechanical drivetrain with a Shimano cassette please.
  • 1 1
 @vinay: if that’s true it’s the dumbest reasoning ever.
  • 3 0
 @Mtbdialed: it’s a tactic to price things artificially low to knock some out of the market. No shit it’s capitalism
  • 8 0
 @dan23dan23: sram can't match shimanos shifting under load so they came up with the delayed shifting excuse to match
  • 1 0
 ‎
  • 1 0
 @warmerdamj: On the contrary the only adjustment needed would be the barrel adjuster at the shifter to dial in cable tension. It would be as easy to get perfect shifting as it is to get your dropper post dialed. Talk about the realizing the dream.
  • 1 1
 @mikekazimer: Sram please Realize Our Dream!
  • 3 0
 The fact that this article immediately spurns the Shimano v SRAM debate is a clear indication of where the market lies. Just like their shifter, I fail to see the demand for this derailleur. Where in the over saturated bike parts world is anyone saying- I need more options for mechanical derailleurs??
  • 5 0
 @dan23dan23: Grabin' Gears and Poundin' Beers am I right my man! Keep up the good fight BLEED BLUE!!!! #SHIMANOFORLIFE
  • 3 1
 @dmnelso: For one I'm actually quite interested. Also keen to try the TRP.
Cannot be bothered with electronic shifting. The mechanical Sram has garbage in place of a clutch and I wouldn't put it anywhere near my bike. Current 12s Shimano shifts amazingly well for about a year, until I bend it enough that I have to run my hanger misaligned to keep it shifting.
The transmission was promising, but seeing it fail on 3/3 of my friends' bikes within a few rides AND still using a garbage clutch that cannot be adjusted(and costs as much as a complete XT RD to replace) is another product I'm not even remotely interested in.
So I actually hope this catches on and we get some competition, or I'll finally get to try an actual transmission near the BB. Because the current mainstram derailleur market is just pathetic.
  • 1 0
 @sophisticatedhonky: Nah, I wouldn't call it dumb. It may just not suit you but that's a different story. It would only be dumb to splash out on one of these systems expecting quick shifts whereas they were pretty clear up front that it would be slower than anything else on the market.
  • 1 2
 XTRs brak at the clutch knuckle though, this one seems more robust in that area according to the eyeball meter.
  • 2 0
 @dan23dan23: same reason my xc race friends ran grip shift xx1 11 speed and then eagle. Dump full cassette up or down like
  • 1 0
 @mikekazimer: Wired Transmission should be out by the end of the summer Smile Instead of having an instant shift.
A whole new redesign makes your shift slower, allowing for a smoother shift (that aligns with the "Shift Mapping". I hope that helps.
  • 2 1
 @dan23dan23: and on transmission you don't have to let up even a little, Hyperglide+ is good, but still need to let up a bit.
  • 3 0
 @bmied31: I dont ease up on my hg+ EVER.
  • 4 0
 @bmied31: I literally finish a 40k descent and absolutely exhausted looking 2m ahead of my bike I spot an abrupt transition to a steep uphill. In one full power pedal stroke shift from 12 to 1 and while it did make a noise, it was an absolutely smooth stroke. And the noise is no worse than a regular shift on eagle to be honest.
The experience has been consistent having ridden HG+ since release. It does get worse after some wear, but I'm talking hundreds of rides. The xt derailleur dies quicker than I'd like. But as long as it's adjusted properly the HG+ shift is brilliant.
  • 1 0
 @stuie321: still running my x01 11 speed drivetrain (albeit with eagle C/ring, chain, and 11-46 Cass) and it's bombproof!
  • 4 0
 @MrDuck: not to mention shimano wears in not wears out like eagle
  • 3 0
 @mikekazimer: I hope they do; there’s plenty of folks (like me) who’d prefer cables on their otherwise top tier groups.

In an industry were I can buy about a million different-but-no-so-different 50mm stems, or sub $100 pedals, it would be nice to have a reasonable selection of choices of high-end mechanical groupset (well, not even ‘groupset’ - shifter & mech, since the rest can be the same as it’s electrical counterpart)
  • 1 2
 @RonSauce: having ridden both, I've found for me that not to be true. If I literally push all my effort into a 12 speed Shimano I still get some ugly change (Far better then any other traditional drivetrain to be fair). Transmission. I have never been able to get an ugly change even under 1000+wats.
  • 2 0
 @bmied31: rather cruch through 4 gears instantlythan having to wait 5 business days for transmission to do the same all for the sake of smoothness
  • 1 1
 @stephenzkie: too each their own. ever had issues with the speed on ttype
  • 44 0
 A little drillium and that weight will come down.
  • 1 0
 I'm thinking just watch the "Adam Savage modifies his bowcaster" episode (where he hollows out a bowcaster made of solid aluminium) and repeat process.
  • 1 0
 Drillium! Also big in the nineties
  • 40 1
 I'd definitely spend too much money on a titanium version.
  • 9 0
 Would it really be too much though, or just the right amount?
  • 3 0
 Titanium is further down the periodic table. I’m assuming that this hypothetical version has been redesigned for Ti and therefore lighter Wink

Doesn’t sound like an easy task though.
  • 29 0
 The dude with the big legs has already ordered one for his next build
  • 11 2
 Dangerholm has Viking blood, so he came out of the womb with those legs.
  • 6 0
  I knew exactly who you were referring to immediately, good stuff
  • 6 0
 @AppleJack76: Dangerholm’s womb was lined with hand-hewn oak and wolf fur
  • 10 0
 @VtVolk: And he was only made tougher by having to squeeze out between his mom's monster quads.
  • 2 0
 I doubt it's light enough for dangerholm
  • 23 0
 @AppleJack76: shhh, dont same his name, or he'll remove your bikes paint in your sleep
  • 5 0
 @Merijn1: And shrink your sunglasses.

I dig this concept of Dangerholm as an impish nocturnal viking spirit. I'm LOL alone in the lobby of a hotel like a lunatic.
  • 21 0
 Jewelry.
But yes, as someone who remembers well the beautiful failures of the Precision Billet and Paul's CNCed derailleurs, I can only say, can it possibly be as good as something as perfect as XTR?

It doesn't have to be better. If it's as good, the beauty can be the trump card worth the extra hundo.
  • 2 0
 weren't past failures with billet aluminum parts caused by poor application, knowledge, and manufacturing processes of the materials used?
  • 3 0
 @Derlicte: Not sure why they broke, just that they did.
Also, they were never as smooth shifting as the S&S group.

But like this, they were awwwwful puuuurrrrrdy.
  • 5 0
 Looks super nice. I wish silver components would make a bigtime comeback in the MTB and Moto world. Black is nice, but it shows every scratch, and has kind of a heavy, bulky look IMO.
  • 2 4
 @Derlicte: No, it was the Rasta ano & associated recreational drug use that doomed those early Paul units. Wink
  • 17 3
 Bike industry falling apart. “What we need is a cabled $400 derailleur that is heavier and at best will approximate the performance of other brands.” I get that it’s about cosmetics but it’s a wild time to be launching vanity products IMO.
  • 20 0
 I’d argue that the “vanity” end of the bike industry is doing just fine. Plenty of people spend silly money on bikes and most of those same people aren’t impacted by a little inflation pressure.
The part of the Industry that got temporarily fat and crazy-eyed serving people buying $1000 gravel bikes in 2020 and 2021 and lying to their financiers that it would keep going forever is a different story
  • 1 0
 @VtVolk: fair enough up to a point. I agree that the entry level market is likely hurting far more than the boutique. But I bet they both are still having a tough time. It’s not like it’s just the entry level bikes that are having trouble selling right now, after all
  • 12 0
 Totally unnecessary, but rad. Titanium one in the works? I just want to see it. Lol.
  • 3 0
 What about a total carbon fiber one? XTR already using a carbon fiber cage.
  • 13 0
 @CSharp: Aluminum is the new carbon fiber
  • 9 0
 @roxtar: For the Europeans, it's Aluminium Wink
  • 5 2
 @CSharp: Yep, and rightly so.
Technically 'aluminum' is correct too, as even the guy that invented/developed it used both terms, but if you choose to use 'alumium', at least be consistent and call titanium 'titanum'.
  • 14 0
 Would shift
  • 10 1
 Just goes to show how beautiful aluminium coloured components can be. So please stop covering stuff in boring ugly black shit component manufactures, I bet an xtr derailleur in ally colour would be equally sexy.
  • 6 1
 There are dozens of us...DOZENS that will buy this derailleur to put on their chromed out 80s bar bike/commuter to show off. PAUL components & White Industries proved that there's enough of a market to support these high price MUSA parts... especially if they're shiny and devoid of plastic.
  • 8 0
 Shifters are more important than rear mechs.
  • 2 0
 
  • 2 0
 Yep. 11 speed xtr trigger and xt rear, best combo imo
  • 4 0
 I really want TRP, Box, Ingrid, Garbaruk, etc. to suceed and grow. They just arent offering anything acutally better yet, and havent cracked the code on chain manufacture. The bigger pieces like cassettes and derailleurs actually maybe seem easier?
  • 3 0
 Agreed. Garbaruk seems to be doing great with cassettes. But I looked into the TRP 12s group set. It looks nice but is quite a bit more expensive and shifts worse than Shimano. So makes it a hard sell. If it shifted as good it could be justified to spend more to be unique. But not worse performance AND more expensive.
  • 1 0
 I don't think making a chain is necessary - KMC for example already make excellent chains - their 11spd was top rated by zero friction cycling. Don't know how good their new 12 speed is yet
  • 2 0
 My bad, it's not the KMC, but the YBN SLA that ZFC rate. Either way, no need for the new manufacturers to make a chain when there are specialist businesses that do nothing else
  • 3 0
 'The Want' is strong with this one.. Cables are awesome, and this mech looks like pure artwork. XTR has been fantastic for me, but if it's as durable & rebuildable as it sounds, I'd very much be in the queue to purchase once it comes out.

#smitten
  • 7 0
 I would buy this before I would buy anything that takes batteries.
  • 2 0
 I’ll buy one for my bike, and one for my shop. This is what makes the sport amazing. These are works of functional art and manifestations of dreams coming true. Heavier? More expensive? So what?! I have zero interest in being a drone with AXS.
  • 5 0
 If you think you cry after slamming your XTR derailleur into a rock...
  • 47 0
 XTR? Tears start at SLX in this house.
  • 5 0
 This is why I have an XTR trigger and only XT RD. 11 speed,the stuff just works..
  • 1 0
 I'd like a version of this without the springs and clutches that I can keep on my desk, stare lovingly at throughout the day and occasionally manually actuate (i.e. fondle like a fidget spinner!). It's way too pretty to only be enjoyed when I'm on my bike.
  • 5 4
 Another fun art/engineering project with no chance of commercial success. Just because you can doesn't mean you should, unless you really are expecting it to only be an art project/engineering demo.
  • 5 1
 A cyclist, engineer and a machinist walk into a bar and….love it.
  • 5 0
 But can you stand on it?
  • 2 0
 So smart! $400 for an anchor weighting more than Shimano XTR ... or XT ... it is closer to SLX (1 gram lighter, sigh) at 7 times the price!!!!!!!
  • 2 0
 "Fingers crossed there's a purple ano version in the works"
is it only for us Italians the word "ano" sounds really weird in this context? can't we simply use anodized?
  • 7 3
 just stop.
  • 3 0
 Yeah,this whole bike thing is being totally derailed
  • 2 0
 It’ll look good on sugar coated super bikes, I’m not sure it’ll look right on most workhorse trail bikes
  • 1 0
 You got me thinking about where this actually would look good. Maybe on an Arrival?
  • 3 0
 Are these guys the new PAUL?
  • 3 4
 Can someone explain this; "it should play nicely with SRAM shifters; compatibility with Shimano derailleurs hasn't been confirmed yet, due to the slightly different cable pull ratio." Surely the derailleur is dumb and the cassette/shifter is the issue?
  • 3 3
 Shifters and dérailleurs both have specific cable pull ratios, and need to be paired accordingly. For instance, if you take an old 9 speed Shimano MTB derailed and slap it on a new 9 speed Shimano Cues MTB shifter and cassette, it will be all wrong because the intended cable ratio of the old RD doesn’t like up with the new shifter.
  • 3 5
 @TEAM-ROBOT: yeah but.... let's say its new Sram Eagle and Shimano XT. the pull ratio is dictated by the shifter fir the specific cassette. As long as the derailleur has the range and b gap its pretty much interchangable no?
  • 6 0
 @WillW123: the Shimano and SRAM 12 speed MTB stuff is very close, but not identical. I think it's a 1.1 cable pull ratio for Shimano rear derailleurs and 1.12 for SRAM, but other places it says 1.01 for SRAM. You'll hear mixed results from people who've mixed and matched Shimano and SRAM shifters and derailleurs. Some people say it works great, some people says it doesn't. YMMV One thing I do know for sure is that SRAM 11 and 12 speed RD's use the same cable pull ratio, and it's the same for Shimano 11 and 12 speed RD's, so you can mix and match those. It's complicated out there.
  • 4 0
 @WillW123: no, I’m pretty sure the shifter pull ratio is specific to derailleur not cassette. The cassettes are cross compatible, the shifter/derailleur is not.
  • 2 0
 @kc358: could be I suppose if the derailleur has a different size swing arm parallelogram. Currently using xt shifter, xo1 derailleur, e13 cassette no issues.
  • 3 0
 @WillW123: that’s pretty much the answer. It’s a rope pulling a lever. Since all 12 speed cassettes are interchangeable, everyone is moving the end of the lever the same distance. Sram designed theirs to move that distance with 1.1 of cable pull and Shimano designed theirs to move it that distance with 1.12 meaning the levers are different lengths. They can do this by changing where the rope pulls the lever from or changing the length of the lever arm itself. There’s a trick over in the road world where you can use Campy shifters with Shimano derailleurs by mounting the cable on the wrong side of the bolt to change the pull ratio and Jtek built a business on making little pulleys to adjust pull ratios for all the wacky parts bin things you wanna try.
  • 2 0
 @WillW123: could always use a sram or microshift thumbie in friction mode. Friction laughs in the face of pull ratios.
  • 3 0
 It’s not Paul’s Components in Rasta colours but it is nice.
  • 1 0
 If Paul remade that for wide range cassettes he’d sell tons but they’d probably be $1000.
  • 2 0
 I'll take one in rasta, or I send it back (MS)...seriously though, they missed a great marketing opp.
  • 1 0
 really could have used some colorful anodizing for the press release, just to get some attention even if they don't end up selling them anodized...
  • 3 4
 The reality regarding AXS being slow shifting is that current wireless tech does not allow it to happen any faster. SO, any pitch from Sram that "they wanted it that way" is spin. They built a good system for current tech capabilities and that means slower than mech systems. I love the look of this derailleur and would def try it... unless Shimano releases a new wireless derailleur that's peppy firstSmile
  • 6 3
 Huh? Have you used the first gen AXS? That thing SLAMS through gears as fast as any cable system I've had. Click 4 times back to back as fast as your thumb goes and it's done. Speed is not an issue with electronics. The slower speed was engineered in to the new AXS, simply to allow the chain to engage the cogs at precisely the right location as to shift smoothly no matter the pressure applied.

But I see zero evidence wireless tech has anything at all to do with speed. Zero.
  • 4 1
 @shorttravelmagazine: I love that story! They sold it well. Not my experience mate.
  • 3 2
 @manco: first gen axs? Fast as a cable for me. No doubt in my mind. There’s a few videos on YouTube of the old and new axs rears on a table, and the person hits the downshift button rapid fire, and the speed difference is kind of shocking at first. The old axs flies in time with the click, the new lags by a full few seconds.
  • 1 0
 Even though it's not a MTB groupset, Shimano DA 12sp wireless is incredibly fast, not even comparable with Sram AXS.
  • 4 0
 needs thumbies
  • 2 0
 Anyone one else interested in a “UDH mounted cable actuated” derailleur that you can stand on?
  • 2 0
 The Ingrid rear mech is 270gm and look beautiful!

ingrid.bike/product/rear-derailleur-rd1
  • 1 0
 Looks cool.
Shame it's not compatible with Shimano shifters as the XT, XTR and Saint have "instant release" and dual release.
  • 1 0
 Looks killer and I think the price is fair, being able to rebuild it is a bonus.
  • 1 0
 I'm waiting for a lighter, cheaper, carbon reinforced nylon derailleur I can 3D print at home.
  • 2 1
 Looks like the Sram parallel pivot design, is that an issue?
  • 4 0
 "parallel pivot" lmaooo this is the classic "windshield wiper" 4-bar from like 100 years ago
  • 1 0
 Expired patent copied by Chinese drivetrain makers for years.
  • 1 0
 Looks like the old Precision Billet derailleurs from the 80's
  • 1 0
 Maybe they could upload their CAD files somewhere and make it open source?
  • 1 0
 Make the cartridge bearings out of aluminium and I'll buy one....
  • 1 0
 insert complaint here....(..........)
  • 1 0
 want in 7spd
  • 1 2
 Honestly thought it was going to cost more going into the advertorial.
  • 1 0
 This isn't an advertorial - the creator of the derailleur sent over a few photos and I thought it looked interesting, so I wrote it up.
  • 1 0
 @mikekazimer: gotcha. My bad. Still thought just looking at it and the write up that it would be more. I guess owning a lot of Paul components I’ve become used to expensive hunks of aluminum.
  • 3 4
 Dont need it or want.
  • 2 4
 Looks like a prototype.
  • 9 0
 It is a prototype.
  • 12 1
 I look at the pictures and scroll straight to the comments section.
  • 5 0
 @IntoTheEverflow: this is the way
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