Meet the Stance: Giant's Affordable Big-Wheel Trail Bike

 @Purpledragonslayer: any one that fashion conscious isn't going to be buying Giant anyway.

 @Purpledragonslayer:

There is nothing wrong with any of the numbers on this bike. Not everybody wants or needs a bike with slow and long handling, and a seat tube that puts extra weight/load on your hands when you’re not climbing or descending with the seat dropped.

 @Purpledragonslayer: This isn't Meastro, it's a single pivot.

Secondly, just cause you're sold on all the marketing doesn't mean everyone needs that.

 Dumbass, some of the best riders in the world ride 68+ hta. Steep geo isn’t just for beginners. It takes more finesse. @Purpledragonslayer:

 @PhillipJ: exactly...

 @Cool-and-Good: you don't seem very cool or good

 @taletotell:

I specifically said that this bike is awesome for those that want to get more involved in mountain biking. Mostly referring to those that don’t have their first “real” mountain bike. As I stated before, I think it’s smart to steer beginners away from buying used because they will most likely be opening a can of worms. There’s nothing wrong with spending $1500 with your local shop and creating a life-long bond with your community. That purchase will pay 10 fold down the road with all the friendships and knowledge you will gain from the locals.

I think recommending a theoretical 2019 “progressive” geometry bike to a novice is one of the worst things you could do. A beginner shouldn’t be thrown onto a bike that is already pushing industry norms. Leave that to the experienced to take the torch to push boundaries.

Also, this bike would definitely be an upgrade over a 2007 Yeti 575. It’s an upgrade alone considering the frame/some parts aren’t 12-13 years old. Plus, standards have changed and finding replacement parts for this bike will be easier compared to the Yeti.

Lastly, to use your logic, you can dislike this article, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t a great bike for the money.

 @PhillipJ: weird that you say that because pretty much every bike company going copied Giants frame style and shock layout with the vertical shock.

 @Cool-and-Good: what do you mean it take more fitness ?

 @taletotell:
We’re imagining two different people for this bike. I know a lot of people that would be better suited with the coverage factory warranty offers rather than have to mess around when everything starts breaking or reaching the end of its lifespan. However, I see your point if it’s someone who is willing to tinker with their stuff. I just know more beginners that either don’t have tools or just don’t have the hand for it.

As far as that Diamondback, the geometry is all over the place! How can you say that’s a better bike?? 66.5 head angle with a shorter offset fork sounds good...but the large has a 435mm reach (medium has 408mm reach, no XL option). The seat angle is 72.5!! That’s far from a better option. The giant has the new dub system from SRAM so BB’s will be more readily available at your local shop. The list goes on.

I guess we can just agree to disagree haha

 @joalst: You are reasonable and make a sensible argument and this is the internet. Are you sure you belong here?????

As for the atroz, the seat tube is unfortunate and sizing is something giant has been very good about. My aunt just bought a Liv ebike that has this same linkage. It's fine, but I can't see paying $1500 for such and old linkage on geometry that my old Kona dawg could rival. I paid $200 for that think and it came with a fox vanilla 32 rlc. (Yes used) I feel like giant could have done a little better with the frame.

 @taletotell:
You as well! I’m glad we’re having a friendly disagreement haha I’d rather argue about bikes nowadays to not risk offending someone

I see your points. It’s amazing that the single pivot still holds a strong staple in suspension design. Also, I believe giant could carry the maestro design to this bike but that would detract from Trance sales. To be honest, with my previous experience with Maestro, I couldn’t tell you if I preferred it over other designs, even other single pivot designs. I’m currently on a 2019 Epic fsr and I love it (lay on the hate haha) I’ve only owned four bar and single pivot bikes long-term with some multi-link bikes mixed in for short durations and never found the multi-link bikes better or worth the extra maintenance.

For your Kona dawg, that was an awesome bike. Sounds like it worked out really well for you.

Genuine question, what would you like to see improved with this frame? Keeping in mind it’s only a 130/120mm trail bike

 @taletotell: world championship XC titles are being won on single pivot bikes, they are good enough for you.

 @joalst: a slightly slacker front end and an xfusion or other cheap but better fork would be a good start. I also want to put the qr to bed. Giant could almost single handedly do it with their manufacturing muscle. Unfortunately, Everytime they try to make a change in the industry it's to a new and strange standard instead of retiring an obsolete one.
There is one other admittedly stupid thing.
The linkage in this bike is interesting to me in how it takes advantage of the flex of the rear triangle. The kona hei hei is the same. The yeti 575 did. Marin used it too on the mount vision.
But I don't like it. It's not rational for me to feel this way. I rocked that 575 and it was fun and sturdy. Even so I like bushings and bearings in my moving bits. Designed to flex seat stays like leaf springs just makes me squirm.

 @clink83: just got my first non single pivot bike after years of loving them. My current rig is awesome, but not because of the linkage.
You are right. They are good enough for me.
But racers winning on them is not why. Those racers were faster on the elastomer soft tails than I am on modern bikes.
Judge bikes on what you like, not in how super human athletes perform on them.

 @mhoshal: You have somehow received "Giant isn't cool" when what was sent was "fashion over function is for twits".

 @TheOriginalTwoTone: this isnt a single pivot its a standard four bar linkage

 @endurogan: you're incorrect. Chainstay bolted to frame through the single pivot where the shock bolts as well.

Just because the shock is driven by a lever doesn't magically make this a four bar linkage design.

 I have to admit, I don't get the geometry hate. 10 years ago, 71º for both head angle AND seat angle wasn't unheard of. I feel like 75º was new school for seat angles just 2-3 years ago. This seat angle is steeper than on my Yeti SB100 and the head angle is slacker. I think for $1,750, this is great for a newer rider that doesn't have a garage full of tools and needs the shop-backed Giant warranty.

 @lmcfarlin: NO kidding. I have a Ripley V4- still uncertain if I'll keep it. Here on the East Coast where its all quick short up and downs, the new school geo isn't all that.

 @WAKIdesigns: Not sure what a 3 year old designed, 27.5, 170mm, Maestro enduro bike has to do with this completely new 2020 Stance?

 @OzarkBike: They are both affordable Giants? I think you missed the joke, but maybe I did to. #WAKIhumor

 No Maestro no deal!

 @WAKIdesigns: the only way to make a single pivot bike fail: put a CC shock on it ????

 @WAKIdesigns: I hear that, however, my 2016 reign rides unbelievably well when I got it set up. That’s after test riding a hand full of other comparable platforms from other brands. I like maestro

 It is nice, and does look pretty good too. Some of my most favorite bikes were SP, BUT... the first thought that always jumps in my head is how much more would it really have cost to add a chainstay pivot? I know Horst isn't always > than SP. BUT, it gives their computers more adjustment of the leverage ratio and if done right "should" be better...???

 @WAKIdesigns: Reigns ride really good and are super popular, I love mine

 @WAKIdesigns: eat a dick waki the new reigns are one of the best all mountain bikes going.

 @mhoshal: uhm... if you like to go straight, yeah. I’ve ridden more nimble DH bikes. Slash 29 is more nimble.

 Basically if your skills are such frames become insignificant. Blaming a frame for one's shortcomings is very 1994 status. I've made multiple people on DH bike scratch their heads on a Reign, one of the best frames going, and yes have risen them all. We have a 3 day fat tire festival with every manufacturer offering free demos. The Reign is more of a mini DH, literally have achieved orbit on them.

 @jorgeposada: beaming in from low Earth orbit. Literally.

 @WAKIdesigns: in any other context riding a cow in a pogo stick sounds like the best thing ever.

I personally don't like 170mm travel bikes. They are never nimble and often as not 140mm bikes beat them in enduro races.

The new stance is a response to Walmart getting into the game. Everyone get ready for the onslaught of old geo numbers and low end parts. They all are going to have to do this, which will be great for beginners, but the aftermarket parts are going to get pricey pretty quick as demand for upgrades starts to grow.

 If you really got stones you have to try a 29er DH pogo stick. Sold my moto and bikes, now it's hardcore pogo life.

 @jorgeposada: it’s the combination of all things. Just because bike has 29” wheels doesn’t mean it rides like a cow, and vice versa, just because a bike has 26” whees doesn’t mean it’s flickable. An example can be a Long Spec P3 with wide bars. A matter of taste, sure but It has little to do with how nimble a DJ can be. I installed a 180mm piston to my Lyrik and it changed my otherwise sweet bike into a cow. A bit slacker a bit shorter, a bit more preload in the rear to compensate. A bit more understeer and suddenly I need to force the bastard into turns, and I hate that on steeps with little grip.

 @WAKIdesigns: Are you trying to compare your bike to my radical downhill extreme pogo stick, how dare you. I was just bouncing down the jumps getting rad and broke my ass, best day ever!

 @jorgeposada: new website: pinkstick.com
It maybe that site is taken?

 Hard to call it Eagle

 Looks like quick release in the rear to me. Not boost

 Did I read the specs incorrectly? Boost front... but what is QR141 loose ball in the rear??

 @tbell1979: I saw that tooo.. Scratching head...

 It's the QR version of Boost that is becoming standard for entry-level bikes. 141mm between the dropout faces just like normal Boost, but without the 3.5mm recessed slot in each dropout that aren't needed for QR Thankfully, if you need to replace or upgrade wheels some of the aftermarket hubs with swapable end caps can be adapter from 148 to 141 QR. DT Swiss, Hope, and others.

 @showmethemountains: this is great info... at work and you are saving me the googles... so if I already have BOOST wheels, what do I need to do to toss them on this bicicleta?!?! thanks!!

 @tbell1979: It’ll be Boost 141mm probably, the cheaper (QR lever, 9mm) version of Boost 148mm.
Just as 148x12 has ‘replaced’ 135/142 x 12mm spacing on pricier bikes, Boost 141 ‘replaces’ 135QR at the cheaper end of the market.

 @tbell1979: What wheels do you have? If you have hubs with swapable end caps, then the end caps for converting the 142 thru version to 135 QR often work to convert to the 148 thru version to 141 QR. Or there may be a dedicated option for 141 end caps. Or you may have hubs that can not be converted

 SX was launched only a month ago so this could well be the first refresh to use it.

 I thought SX was a typo until I saw it mentioned several times in the article.

 I think he was specifically talking about high school racing, which is popular but unaffordable for a lot of kids.

 I'd love to see a comparison between this, the Marin Hawk Hill, and whatever else is in that price bracket - compare to each other, then compare to bikes just one tier above (like the low-end Diamondback Release, the Kona Process 134SE, etc., which are all around $2k). Full on entry level FS bike shootout, as a resource for all of us who are constantly asked to recommend a bike for people getting into the sport.

 @g-42: there’s always YT and Canyon. I have last years Spectral(1,800), and the Lady has a Capra (1,600 on sale) both are the aluminum base models. Both have been fantastic bikes, and we race (abuse) them with zero qualms. Wonderfully affordable for the spec that you’re getting. As long as a new rider has a knowledgeable friend to help them to realistically sort their needs, it’s easy enough to wade through the offerings and come out with a bike that you can grow with/into.

 @Svinyard: calibre is older 11 speed vs new 12spd eagle, calibre has a steel stanchion fork vs alloy air fork, calibre has non tubeless tires vs maxxis exo tubeless, calibre has generic samox crank vs sram dub 12spd crank.

calibre has better brakes and rear shock that's it.

calibre retail is $1660 usd vs $1500 usd

 @OzarkBike: Dude...the Calibre has the same suspension as the Stance 1 1750$....and somehow you are acting like thats a negative? Lets not be silly please. Eagle is nice...but not 400$ more nice. Cranks are cranks at this point. You are off on the tires too. The rims and tires are all tubeless supported dude. So here it is:

Calibre:
- Better fork (by a fair amount)
- Better shock
- Better Brakes
- 400$ cheaper

calibrebicycles.com/bike/bossnut-evo

Not a perfect bike but better than this.

 @Svinyard: The Stance 2 is $1500 usd. Not sure you are comparing apples to apples? It is not a better fork at all plus it is a steel fork...... and it is not Boost rear and $160 more than Stance

 @Svinyard: It is not the same fork.... it has the STEEL stanchion version. Retail vs retail not some made up price. Deals can be had anywhere.

 @OzarkBike: I think it is the same fork, Calibre just has no fast black color. Both use Steel Stanchions right?

This is the fork right? ("bomb proof steel stanchions")
www.sram.com/rockshox/products/recon-rl-0

Maybe I missed that Giant has some special version of this on their 1750$ bike? I know the 1500$ spec uses a different fork, not sure if you think the Raidon fork on that spec is better than the Rekon on the upper tier spec...is that what you are saying?

Normally I'd agree with you on MSRP vs MSRP but its just not reality due to Calibre's somewhat old school distribution. Its been on sale since it about came out. Its not some bro deal. It just super affordable and close to the spec of Giants 1750$ bike, minus a few things...but still for 1150$.

 @Svinyard: once again... no not the same fork. the silver chrome color forks are the 3-4lbs plus heavier steel $200 forks. The Suntour fork is nice on the $1500 model. The Calibres are on sale because all the parts are 2-3 years old.

 @OzarkBike: Its the newer Rekon SL fork as well on the Calibre. Just minus the coating. BOTH forks have steel stanchions man. You keep saying steel like the 1750$ bike doesn't have steel. Ping Calibre on FB and they'll tell you the same thing. Same fork, minus the fast black coating. Both forks have 32mm steel stanchions.

 @Svinyard: I Was speaking of the $1500 Stance with the alloy Suntour fork compared to the Calibre.

 @OzarkBike: Gotcha, regardless the Calibre has the same suspension as Giant's 1750$ bike. I'm not a fan of that Raidon stuff on the 1500$ spec'd giant. You'd think if it was better it'd be on their 1750$ bike. Who knows tho I guess.

 @Svinyard: yep... still both are good for entry price point

 @Svinyard: that's a nicely specced bike, but the frame itself is a step down from the Giant IMO.

 @g-42: and the DB atroz, which is $1400 and has a slack HA, but is probably very heavy.

 Giant themselves had to warranty quite a few broken stance chainstays on a previous model accordingbto mtbr forums. Alu is not meant to flex forever. This is one of the few cases in mt.bikes where carbon is indeed the right material.

 @justwan-naride: At least they do warranty them, which is completely fair. The companies I'm affiliated with have also been very good to replace frames when it was an issue.

 I think this is less than a Trust fork, even after their price cut.

 If you know anyone else who's looking for their daughters, look at the Norco fluid FS 4.... They go down to an extra small and have 27.5 wheels up to size medium. Also arguably better value in Canada.

 Agreed. Where did they pull this geometry from, '98 Trek catalogs?

 @5poundplumbbob: or like, 2019 trek catalogues XD

 @j-t-g: I think the reach on the fuel XL is an appropriate 487mm or so.

 @Svinyard: I was referring more to the seat tube kinks that feature heavily on the fuel EX and slash

 I know its a crazy though, but not everyone wants a super long slacked out enduro race bike. Some people like to have bikes that actually climb as well as they descend. Giant does a great job of making middle of the ground bikes with good component specs for people who want a well equipped trail bike without gimmics.

 @clink83: the super long bikes are around 500+ reach for me at least, in an XL. Moderate bike that rides really nice up and down is easily fine around 485. 471 tho...

 @Svinyard: heh, my hardtail has a 439mm reach in an XL...

 The rear stays do have to flex in order to compensate for the arc of the rocker link. The designer, however, can minimize that flex by carefully averaging the arcs of the swingarm and upper rocker to the point where its effect is so small that it will not stress the frame. It's a nice trick.

 @RichardCunningham: Ok. But is that what they did? I'm highly suspicious of aluminum flex stays.

 It is a Giant improvement

 It’s reigning puns.

 Maybe aesthetically but it shares nothing with the new Trance 29. Not even near the same geo.

 This isn’t a Trance 29 front end. On the Trance the HTA is a degree slacker and it has moderner geo.

 @noah-noahEone: the Trance sta is also slacker by half a degree. So if you rotated the whole front triangle a smidge, why not?
The one major actual difference I see is head tube length, changing that can alter the rest of the geo everywhere else.
To satisfy my own curiosity I may pop down to the Giant store one day and take some measurements

 @ronufoh: They are pretty similar. Looking at the geometry for the bikes, The HTA is a full degree steeper. And the seat is 1/5 degree. I measured off the Trance 3 and Stance 1. I’m not sure if the Carbon Trances have different geometry.

Its a shame our local bike shop is new and only has entry level (up to the Stance) of products. So I can’t look at them in real life or ride the side by side.

 @noah-noahEone: don't get me wrong I'm not willing to put any money down to say they are the same front triangles. I'm actually going to walk back my original statement to say 'significant parts of the front triangle tubeset are the same.' But to have such a strong resemblance, visually anyways, running through 3 different generations spanning the past decade, I don't think is a mere coincidence. When you're the size of Giant, nothing happens accidentally.

 @ronufoh: I saw some older trance frames and the stance looks like them

 Flexy stays single pivot instead of Maestro though. Cant do too much sending on it.

 Heard they had issues with that run of frames... word is that it's been solved and supposedly even the biggest hits on the newer gen frames are totally fine.

 It was not this bike. This is an all new 29er which has never existed before this model year. However, I did see the first generation 27.5 (several years ago)crack on a friends bike and he was told it was corrected on newer models.

 @OzarkBike: Ahh ya that makes sense.. was all second hand info.

 @OzarkBike: My son (admittedly he's 11 now and weighs less than 100 lbs) has ridden the shit out of his 2019 Stance 27.5 for a year with no frame problems at this point, and he hits 8+' drops and large jumps. Since he's moving into more speed-oriented, steeper enduro racing now, he's ready to move up to a 29" bike with more travel and more modern geo (currently eying a Sentinel), but I'll give it to Giant: for the price point, he's gotten a lot of riding out of his Stance.

 Slightly lower end version of the already lower-end 12 speed NX. Uses a traditional (not XD) driver, so 11t is the smallest cog in the rear, just like NX.

 @g-42: Ah, thanks. From the context of the Stance and the fact that it was mentioned multiple times in the article so I figured it wasn't a typo, I sort of guessed it was about as you described, NX but a step lower, but I'd never heard an announcement or anything about it.

 @mtbikeaddict: there wasn't much of an announcement, they kinda released it under the radar. Bike radar has an article about it here, as well as a youtube video that shouldn't be hard to find. www.bikeradar.com/news/sram-sx-eagle-groupset

 It’s plastic junk that does not belong on an mtb. Great for hybrids, but the rear derailleur is about an x3 RD they added a clutch to. You can tell the limit screws are actual SCREWS not bolts the screw into the plastic body of the derailleur. Yikes

 I'm seriously thinking of getting one of these used next year and throwing some nice used parts on it...

 It is basically a modified single pivot design like many brands use, including the new Epic and many others

 @OzarkBike: is it on par with a typical horst link setup?

 @Svinyard: the new Epic went away from the Horst link and uses a modified single pivot design. Many brands have use or used a modified single pivot such a Kona, Rocky, Spec, Etc. It is a proven design, but not a supple or deep feeling as Maestro.

 Modern single pivot bikes ride pretty well as long as they have a good shock on them.

 Some countries still prefer 2x, North America only gets 1x stock from what I've heard

 yes

 Boost QR 141 like many other brands.

 This is a myth. DW was brought in by Giant to help them develop Maestro and they paid him US$600,000. Giant are silent on the matter but you can find the outcome of DW's failed lawsuit online.

 Freshly serviced forks will leave oil on the BLACK stanchions...service yo fork!

 Is the Sektor much better?

 @Trouterspace: Not at all. I hate the entry level forks on all entry level bikes. First thing to do is change the fork for a better experience. Leave that crap to costco/walmart/Canadian Tire bikes and spec something decent that will last a few years (as nobody will really be hitting true gnarly on these...one hopes). With a better spec'd fork, at least they can ride with some confidence and understand what it should feel like.

 @MMOF: I pity the snobbery.

 @mtbikeaddict: no snobbery. Just feel like the first time purchaser who doesn't know any better is still getting ripped off

 @MMOF: Sektor uses tokens and has the Debonair air spring. Seems pretty solid. No it doesn't have the Charger Damper, and it has 32mm stanchions. But aside from that, what's so bad about it?

I ask because I want to get a hardtail to fit between my full rigid XC bike and my 160mm Pivot Mach 6.

Some of the bikes I've been looking at spec the Sektor.

 @Trouterspace: I agree as a fork is seems solid. I would prefer that they spec'd at least a revelation on these bikes as the rest of the bike is capable of so much more. Yes, the Sektor is a mid-entry level but the rest of the bike is not. The pother components that one could/would upgrade are certainly a lot less expensive than the fork. At least offer the revelation and you have a solid keeper of a bike and any upgrades are easier to apply.

I had an earlier Sektor on a Process 135 and the bike itself was limited by the fork. I put a Pike (bought from JensonUSA) and now the bike was one I actually really liked and enjoyed for the few years that I had it. That fork then was a $600 upgrade. If I had a decent fork to start with, then that need to change would've been mute.

 @MMOF: I think the current spec is well balanced. If you know you want a better fork, put in an extra couple hundred $ up front and you can get a different model with a better fork and better everything else

 @showmethemountains: true

 @MMOF: couldn't agree more

 @MMOF: you can't get most mountain bikers to set the proper sag or rebound on a bike, the fork is fine.

 Its really not that important for entry level bikes. Assume it’s heavy.

I can’t think of any bikes in this price range with similar features so weight is simply a number in this case.

 @lognar:
Closest options I can think of that have similar geometry and travel:
Marin Hawk Hill (27.5") and Rift Zone (29er version). $1600 models have Recon RL, X-Fusion O2 R shock, Shimano brakes, tubeless ready wheels, dropouts can be upgraded to 148mm thru-axle, Deore 1x10, no dropper
$1950 models have Recon RL, Deluxe R DebonAir shock, tubeless ready 148mm thru-axle wheels, NX w/ Sunrace cassette, Shimano brakes and a dropper

Spec Stumpjumper ST $1870 is close to the Stance 29-1 but you don't get a dropper and I don't think the rims are tubeless ready It has SLX 11spd vs SX Eagle, and is a proper Boost thru-axle frame

 @showmethemountains: forgot about the marins, and didnt know about spec offering something that affordable. Cool to have options.

 @lognar: Yes, more options in this range are great! Especially if you don't have a local dealer for one of these brands and/or your dealer for one brand isn't a good shop

 @lognar: Except that the article frames the bike as a great NICA option, so weight is somewhat important in that setting. My son has the 2019 Stance 1, and it's a 30+ lb. pig, so I imagine this one will be similar.

For kids who are only going to have one bike and do a lot of trail riding outside of NICA, this isn't a bad option (my son's has served him well in everything from XC racing to park riding to gnarly enduro and DH). I would say that most kids who are really into racing NICA would be better off spending this money on a lighter race hardtail, as most NICA courses don't really need full suspension.

I'm not bashing the bike, but I DO think weight needs to be a factor, especially if you're framing it for youth riders, many of whom weigh less than 100 lbs.

 @Hogfly: the article says this bike isnt for competative racers...

 @Hogfly: if you already know its a pig, why do you need the weight? All im saying is that for entry level bikes, weight really isnt a factor that needs to be considered. If you want a fully and only have $1800 to spend your options are limited, theyre likely within a pound or of eachother. So putting a number to it really doesn’t make a difference.

 Norco starts at $1800 with a steel fork and non Eagle 10spd group.

 @OzarkBike: Stance looks great, I’d love to give it a try. Fluid is also a great starting point, I’ve owned a 15’ and it was a great trail bike. Pretty sure the exchange rate puts these bikes closer together in price when buying in Canada. Cheers.

 the new trance is 115 -130