Announced: Santa Cruz 650B V10

 pics of girlfriend are required to make a legitimate comparison

 trust me on this one..

 I'd take this over a wife any day maintenance on a bike will always be cheaper then a wife.

 Haven't seen a better looking female human being yet, so I trust you.

 So you call your hand Kylee?

 So the saving starts

 "trust me on this one" = fat chick

 I'll take 2.

 2 fat chicks?

 I don't even care how it rides... I'm just gonna buy that breathtaking creature, put it in the middle of my living room and never ever touch it again.

 If the price exceeds 8 grand, then it becomes ugly to me.

 the more important question is can ratboy take on the massacre with it at msa?

 Gonna be a a shit hot race,ratty is coming in hot off a nationals win,3.5 over Gee,he's on fire.

 Yes, clean and no wax. We need to compare.

 can't wait for all that to get goin again. new bikes on deck to prove and like ya said bryce on a streak..

 Found a pic of Dhmtbman's girlfriend, Kylee...

www.thestudentroom.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=243660&d=1379113412

 Buzz, your girlfriend.. woof!

 Hahahahahah actually....

 dude, i clicked on that link. grrrrr.............

 A real BBW !

 Sweet baby jeebus--- that's not a CHICK is it????

 It's just unfair giving the syndicate a faster rolling bike!! Especially minnaar is gonna kill it

 The integrated fork bumpers/cable guides are a nice touch.
Specialized Demo and now this… Welcome to the 13k and up club!

 "GiraffeInPurple (3 hours ago)
I'd take this over a wife any day maintenance on a bike will always be cheaper then a wife."

Than. Than a wife.

 VPP, BBW, all these acronyms are so easily interchangeable!!

 @Jaliyl I know I l know my grammar is bad why I just stopped caring thanks for correcting me though.

 In Chinese, we would say:"没图你说个鸡巴啊！"
That means "What the heck you are talking about, just post your girlfriend's photo!"

 So, it's really a V-8.5?
Hmm...not very catchy

 Scary thats what I'm saying they can't keep the name if they lose the travel....

 Maybe for you
But that is a beautiful bike

 So I guess your girlfriend looks the same as last year too then?

 Ok, how many of us went to chek out what @KonaChina said in chinese?
BTW, your welcome translate.google.com/#zh-CN/en/%E6%B2%A1%E5%9B%BE%E4%BD%A0%E8%AF%B4%E4%B8%AA%E9%B8%A1%E5%B7%B4%E5%95%8A

 "Did not figure you for a dick ah" hahahahahahahahahahaha

 Just looked the same but bigger

 So you wouldn't date a super model?

 @Dorianl98
Haha, I know someone would do that! Actually my translation before was an euphemistic way of the original meaning. If you back translate it, it would be more or less like what you see in Google Translate. But please take no offense on this guys. It's just an popular phrase here on the web among the youngsters. Also we would say "no pic no jj", which means if you don't post the picture of what you are talking about, your little general will be gone.

Any way, just something for you guys to learn about a little of the online "culture" from the other side of the world. And, I'd have to say, that's a really great bike from Santa Cruz and we are looking forward to its performance this weekend at MSA.

 V10 is the same, only bigger wheels. At least Spec revamped the entire bike. Disclaimer: I was not a fan of the previous Demos.

 At least give that new Demo suspension a chance to get off the assembly line before you know what bike is better. It might be on par with Maestro suspension. On a side note, I'm glad the v10 got rid of it's dual travel positions.

 that new demo is going to be sick

 That new demo needs more chainstays

 well it does have integrated fork bumpers..

 I'd love to give the new demo a chance, but oh wait! They don't make it an XL. Sorry for anybody over 6'. Santa Cruz it is!

 There is an XL in the new Demo. Check the write up on Vital MTB, all the sizes and geo is on there.

 Sweet! About time!

 Ride them both first, and then decide.

 The demo will have a crappy press fit bb, random rear axle size, and weak pivot hardware. Yea, I'll take a V10!! I don't always ride bikes, but when I do, I DON'T ride Specialized.

 Don't be hating on Specialized. They may not be the best, but they do make some solid rigs.

 ^Have you? No. So shut up, you have no idea if it's going to be sick.

 Specialized took an outdated suspension design and made it look really good, but the V10 is pure sex

 Do either of you have enough money to buy either one? No. So shut up.^

 AZRyder uh.. pretty sure you'd be just fine on a size large until you hit 6' 3."

 I love how so many people rip on Specialized for using "an outdated suspension design". The first FSR bikes came on the market in 1994. The first VPP bikes came to market in 1996. Just like Specialized bought the patent from Horst Leitner for the 4-bar Horst Link design, Santa Cruz bought the VPP patent from Outland in 1999 after that company folded in 1998. Both designs have been reconfigured and refined over the years, and if properly executed they both work really well. I fail to see how something could be considered outdated (and this includes the simple single pivot design) if through refinement it not only works, but also continues to improve. Look at the Porsche 911. The basic design goes back to the VW Beetle from the late 1930s. Are those a piece of crap due to their "outdated" design?

 Tried Santa Cruz v10 ages ago when my uncle had one when they looked like a tank for being a weak little gr.9 kid felt amazing would love to own one but ain't happening.

 The first FSR's were designed by Horst anyway, that's why Specialized bought the patent... they were already a horst-link licensee.

 they are both damn good looking...but the V10 is functional looking, whilst the new Demo is like art mixed with sex

 Ratboy>Gwin

 Iamwarthog, you are right. Kona claims it is all about the shock leverage with their single pivot. Any suspension design can work if it is engineered and built properly. Remember the first v10's had floating brakes. This bike is nothing like them.

 @mfbeast12 I'm 6'5" and am currently riding a large status. It feels like trail bike to me.

 @Iamwarthog - I fully agreed with your argument until you made a comparison to Porche 911s... Which are crap due to their outdated design :/

 @spoonyman - Sorry, I was drunk when I wrote that.

 Envelope already sorted out the problem of their rims crumpling, it was something like the wrong spokes and hub. That being said I'd rather have those than any carbon bar, if that beaks you've got a real problem

 Easy to remove rear shock? Ahh sorry, I need to look elsewhere.

 Your bike choice is decided on ease of removing rear shock? Why the hell would you be removing it so often that ease of access matters THAT much? Your options are now limited to... the new Demo. That's about it.

 shock looks pretty easy to remove, don't see the problem...

 I was surprised they made such a big deal about how easy it is to remove the shock on the new Demo. Its cool I guess, but if they made that such a prominent selling point it makes me wonder is there wasn't really much else to talk about.

 If your a seriouse racer then the shock thing is probably pretty nice but I think it just looks cool haha

 Honestly, how hard is it too remove a shock in a similarly laid-out bike frame? Not hard at all. If you're having problems and believe the Demo is great because it's rather pointlessly missing a seattube/and only a second faster to remove a shock..then there is no hope. You still gotta flip the bike around to the NDS on the stand, still unscrew your pivots, still lift the shock upwards then to the side.

Last time I checked, while people do like to make things convenient for the mechanic's side of the bike, no one is in a F1 Pit Stop.

 I think he was being sarcastic

 Possibly, but there are so many people actually throwing that point around as if it was a big point lol. #marketing?

 yeah I think the shock on the Specialized is cool but only because it looks radical. Yeah It will same some time removing but that's not a selling point imo even for a racer, it's such a minute difference. I also think maybe the seat mast area would be more attractive if the dint have to make it so thick and stiff to accommodate the missing portion... Something about the new Specialized is bland to me.... Im sure it rips though.

 I honestly feel like it's a big deal on the demo because of how hard it was to get the shock out on past DEMOS, rather than compared to any other bike. First gen ones, you had to pull the top link off, & they used these weird washers in the pivots that wanted to fall out whenever you tried to put it back together. rear shock pivot used conical washers that always tried to migrate away from the bolt axis, freaking nightmare. I usually ended up "gluing" them in with grease to try to get them to stay, & still had to fight with it.

M6 I have, which is probably similar to this bike, was cake in comparison.

 Sarcasm definitely doesn't work here on Pinkbike.

 ^ You didn't figure that out 3.2 seconds after you made your first comment on PB? Humor doesn't usually work either. I'm glad you WERE being sarcastic, I still can't believe that "ease of shock removal" is high on ANY body's priority list. But since it's a byproduct of the new Demo design, I guess people will pretend it's now important.

 I was honestly replying to Spicy-Mike more than anything.

 My point wasn't necessarily to anyone, but just the fact that some people think it's a big feature.

 It's not even a new V10, plus you haven't ridden either of them so you're going entirely off of aesthetics.

 No water bottle mounts? Bike sucks...

 white is the always mud-stained

 Yeah not a fan of white. I'm a sucker for green though.

 ...which is pretty much the same as what they always had...

 Cmon that is a totalllllllly different V-10 !!!! NOT !!!! It is a tool to get every marketing victim to sell their 26" V-10 and burn their hard earned cash once again.

 Change for the sake of change isn't worth while!

 @Alexsin, when you have a georgous, world cup winning bike why would you make it look different? At least it doesn't look like a nineties Lawill link rip off!

 I'm not saying it's not a nice bike. I'm saying it's basically the same bike it always was.

 Go look through the older V10s, it's a good advert for incremental refinement.

 Funny.. if a brand breaks with their older design comments are "doesn't speak for them to always come up with something new instead of refining the old design and stay true". Now if a brand refines their old design it's "look at them... still wanna sell us the same shit as for the last 5 years".
Just shut up you f#ckin retards.

 I'm hoping they've updated the geometry to modern times... 65-66º headangle is ridiculous! If I ever bought this years bike I'd have to spend extra money on an angleset!

 A longer reach and top tube would be a much better solution.

 yea i was thinking the same thing, I mean its probably one of the team riders set ups(everyone on that team is 6 foot plus) or promo for chris king, but It kinda leaves one left to think they need to make a longer front section option. Then again I doubt they retooled the moulds at all on the front section for the 650b version

 Supplying every frame with one of those headsets would be good for fine tuning sizes. Giving the option of buying a size (XL for me) then the further option of long, medium (normal headset) or short setups would be really useful. Not that this is what Santa Cruz are doing or are planning to do, but it would be a great idea.

 Good point, haha

 I'm 6'5" and the XL v10 is border line too long for me

 @Judge, I'm 6ft 5 too but the XL V10 is good inch too short for me, and about two inches shorter than my custom hardtail, people come in all shapes and sizes before you even get to personal taste.

 I'm 6'5" as well and have only sampled the xl devinci. That bike feels as big as a large spesh status. Just to let you guys know, I looked at all the XL's made by every company that offers one and the Knolly podium is largest as far as reach, top tube and wheelbase are concerned. But it will be replaced by the new demo as those numbers are larger. Except for top tube but that is due to one company measuring the top tube horizontally and the other measuring it effectively. By the way, does anybody know the difference between an effective and horizontal measurement on a top tube?

 Slackening the headangle would be another must!

 26 ain't dead... till santa cruz gives you a free 650b v10

 how dare you @speed10

 Well, they don't really need to change it,
this bike has absolutely dominated the world cup circuit in terms of wins and podiums (and it's barely changed over the years)

 I agree with both of the above statements. Sick bike. Does look like the same bike with slightly larger wheels. Either way.. it's sick.

 If you think it's barely changed over the years, you need to go look at a first gen v10. www.pinkbike.com/forum/listcomments/?threadid=118763 (second picture)

 good link ^^ the 2008/09/10 v10s were gorgeous when they were full alloy. Those bike radar team bikes with the red/black/white and 40s were the shizznit.

the best looking v10 of all time was the syndicate team bikes from 2009

 Commencal should make a new bike.

 Nothing like a random response to a random statement. Here's my contribution:

"I think we should all start riding full suspension tandems with our friends. Wearing capes."

 on tuesday granny.

 would someone please fist my butthole?

 pm sent to miff...

 I just had sex!

 why? because im worth it

 I hear Uzbekistan's potassium exports have flourished recently and are up 0.821% this last quarter. Good news indeed

 No you didn't Fercho25.

 It ain't dead but it's going to be in a year or two. Already almost no 26s left as far as new bikes go. Such a shame.

 I taco'd the front wheel on my Blur in Rotorua (NZ) recently and had to replace it that day. Had the same reaction from four shops - "No 26ers here mate", "They're outmoded", "You won't find one", "Living in the past" etc. I've never ridden 27.5, so have no view on 'em, but I'm inclined to think nismo's on the money...

 Not a shame that something that works better is driving out the old. Once you've ridden a 27.5, you will understand.

 Oumoded? Living in the past? Not a shame?

You know, I have a Sony D6C in my music box, I bought it in 1996 just before I came to Japan; to many it is seen as one of the major contributing factors to a rise in the commercial success of large numbers of musicians who, until then, had few opportunities to record professional levels of sound quality as they strove to bring their music to a wider audience. Remember Michelle Shocked's Texas campfire tapes? Recorded on a D6C. I love my D6C and still use it today; it's quick, simple, fantastic sound quality and totally mobile. It's a classic and deserves to be. I love it and am not planning on getting rid of it.

Are there "better" modern equivalents? Of course there are. Recording on tape, rather than being "ain't dead" is, in 99.9% of cases, well and truly in the past. I also use a presonus firebox and Cubase these days too, yet the D6C remains on the table by the bed and I turn to it more often than not.

It is still alive. It is still doing exactly what the team at Sony designed it to do, Perfectly.

Living in the past? It doesn't feel like it to me.
Outmoded? I suppose if you like quantize and autotune you might think so, I prefer the rawness of a nice live performance myself.
Just ask Dave Grohl about analogue recording and you might get why some of us feel so strongly about it.

And I suspect that my 26 inch BFe will go the same way as the D6C. Let those of us who love our machines keep doing so. We possibly know something of value that others too keen to consign them to yesterday have yet to discover. Enjoy your new bikes people. And your old.

 redsetta - that is shit mate and my worst nightmare as a 26er. I thought these bike shops would still have 26 DH wheels for a good while longer. If im out on a road trip and my 26 inch wheel fails then id be well screwed if your experience is anything to go by. I've just bought a new 26 rear for my trail bike - it was either that or new fork and wheelset. bullshit man

 After few years everybod who said that 26 is dead will be coming to market with 26 inch wheels claiming that 27.5 and 29 were great when it came about rolling over obstacles but that they were losing stability in coners, weren't acelareting really good and took more money to make it light weight. However in the end it's all about marketing.

 Haha, "losing stability in corners"... you've never ridden 27.5's. Never mind the extra traction in corners. Even the biggest haters of big wheels I know have admitted they didn't notice any negatives to the slightly bigger wheels size, only benefits. Most people hell bent on 26" wheels are pissed they just invested in new 26" stuff and now it's going the way of the dodo, and regurgitate the arguments they've heard against them. And most of those arguments only work on paper (some are true with 29ers), when you are out on the trail the "extra rotational weight" or whatever other crap you heard isn't noticeable, but the extra traction, speed and stability IS. But I did it again, I told myself I wouldn't waste time arguing about wheel sizes. You'll have a bike with them some day, and you'll feel silly that you loved your 26" wheels because "bigger wheels are just marketing".

 Scott, there are some of us who love our 26 inch wheels purely because they can fit into the plethora of 26 inch forks we own. Which in turn fit into the 26 inch frames we possess. No mystery, no hating, just pure and simple love of tinkering with what we have got rather than envy of what we haven't.

 I can't even conceive how he made that bike do those things. .. matrix spoon bending techniques maybe?

 I think even Neo might of struggled to stay on that!

 There IS no berm.....

 lol Its called real world riding, no such thing as berms here in mallorca either. Its slide round or keep going straight!

 LMAO... I was going for the line in the movie---but damn, there actually is no berm

 Glory

 I'd like to see a new Commencal

 New flatline perhaps?

 Trek Carbon Session 27.5?

 Return of the Iron Horse Sunday!.... in 650B guise no less

 Here you go Liam www.pinkbike.com/photo/10165671

 Mountain Cycle San Andreas 27.5, or Karpiel Armageddon 27.5 FTW. With a ZZYZX 27.5 fork.

 If we get an upsized Karpeil does that mean we also get a new Josh Bender with a slightly larger middle than before?

 New Foes Carbon 27.5?

 Trenduro. No V10's allowed!

 I think complaining about it on this bike is kind of ridiculous… Like, the argument is normally that people that they don't want to go and buy a whole new expensive wheel set, but, like, if you're buying a V-10, you can probably afford a new wheel set...

 very true.... the 10inch travel is harder to setup so id imagine they have used 8.5

 Yeah, a brand new top of the line DH race bike with all top of the line components will be expensive.

 I like bikes, even ones I can't afford and have no business riding. Sweet bike SC!

 Does RAD and prototype make it priceless? I don't think you can actually buy it.

 A national level MX bike is $50-150k (Not a stock bike- they are OK at the local level up to intermediate. After that it takes a pile of money to race competitively.) Racing is expensive. DH, BMX, Enduro are the cheapest wheeled sports out there.

 Hey guys didn't mean to be those whiny little bi**hes complaining about price. Was just commenting that this is the very very top of the line

 yeah but 584 is just better. Ride one and figure it out for yourself

 Z-man gets it!

 This is so old. most of the people bitching stopped after riding the newer bikes. There's a handful of pretend riders who say they don't like 650b after riding one, but personally, the difference is moderate, like going from 1.95 tires to a good 2.35 tire. The 2.35" tire is theoretically less nimble, but the difference in ride and traction are outweighing the slight downside.

 Yeah, regardless of all the "I'm gonna be a 26er for life!" bullshit, I have yet to meet ONE person who hasn't preferred 650B after actually trying it. 26" is going the way of the dodo, and I'm fine with that.

 I tried it, the 650b felt clumsy underneath me when riding it.

The bigger wheels will descend like a freight train... But it will also jump like a heavy train and switch lines like a heavy train.

Most people stopped complaining about the new wheel size because we understand the industry decided to disenfranchise the 26" rider.

If the 650B is so much better, then how was Jared Graves able to win on a 26" last year?

 You obviously didn't ride one then. A freight train, come on! Most don't even describe 29ers that way. The difference in agility is VERY minimal, like going from a 1.95 tire to a 2.35 tire. No one bitched about that.

 When I demoed the ibis HDR I made up my mind then and there that I wouldn't care whether my next bike was 559 or 650. All that really matters to me is that its fun and fast so either one will do.

 Yes, I did: Norco Range.

And for the record, I did recommend a 650B bike to a friend because it did fit what they wanted the bike to do.

 How was your "opinion" so out of touch with reality? The difference is notable, but it's not like the bike can't turn anymore. The only place I really notice a deficit is in the tightest switchbacks, where you are at a near dead stop. In every other situation, the traction advantage is much more noticeable.

 Never mind Willie,

You're doubting my "experience " even though physics confirms it.

The freight train analogy was really a compliment. Meaning the 650b bike descend like it is on rails. But the extra weight and extra turning radius are part of that trade off...
Which is what different size wheels are : trade-offs.

 You described a bike that handles worse than a 29er in the corners. No physics confirms that.

 I rode a bike with 160mm of travel with 650B wheels. It weighed a good 4-5lbs more than my bike with 160mm of travel and 26" wheels.

Bigger wheels means bigger frames for full suspension.bigger frames equal more weight.

The extra weight and size was noticeable, the extra traction that you allude to was noticable.

 But at the end of the day the bigger wheel size didn't impress me. I am going to ride my bike until it dies and then buy used. I think that the industry has seen the last of my dollars for new bikes.

 Should only be a 1 or 1.5 pound difference or so. Apples to oranges otherwise. Was the geo the same? Newer bikes are more slacked out, and that will have the same effect as larger wheels.

 I bet you can still stick a 26'' wheel in there

 That's what she said

 White bikes look terrible when dirty, I know, I have two of them

 Hopefully.

 That's what Ibis did... I was able to update my frame to 650B with proper geo and clearance without having to buy a whole new bike (just half of one, haha) and I can't thank them enough for doing that. $600 for a new swingarm and shock mount is wayyyy better than a whole new frame, especially if you only recently bought a 26". That would be awesome if they offered that to V10 owners.

 yeah cuz the last model was only out for a year. Kinda pisses me off that i bought a one year model

 not sure if sarcastic or a 29 rider.

 I would ride 26" over 29" any day. 29" is going away, 26" will remain. I do agree that 27.5 is the best.

 No shit... like it needs to be faster or something

 ha, I wonder if bike manufacturers have a pool going on who gets more comments on their announcement article on PB, that would be awesome

 Its not great, the difference is so small, ratboy was more than capable of winning on the 26inch v10 (obviously). 650b is a great way to sell more bikes though, and at the end of the day it is an industry

 Thats not something you can say with any sort of certainty whatsoever and definitely not "(obviously)" since there wasn't a 650B V10 out yet for ratboy to be more capable on. Now that there is one some testing can happen to determine which is faster. This time the testing though would actually be relevant since so little changed with the new bike except for wheel size.

 I call BS caketown. Even if the bike wasn't much faster they would still run 650. At this point if you want to sell bikes you gotta be on the 650 bandwagon. With all the marketing in the last year or so all any one can talk about is 650b. The 26 v10 was already just as fast as the 650b competitors.

 In all other forms of racing, no expense is spared in the pursuit of gaining 10ths or 100ths of a second. So if switching to 650B you're gaining a second or two in a race run compared to 26"...there isn't a team or brand that would stick with 26". To the average trail rider, if you were on you're 26" beating you're 29er friends, you're stroll going to beat you're 650B friends.

Or.....maybe it's the new geo changes that are making the bigger difference??

 i thought bryceland already won on his 650b. british nats.

 If it was a disadvantage, they would drop it. Look at the demo fiasco last year. Gwinn got a custom rear triangle, then the first two rounds he didn't even ride the demo this year. Losing sucks for PR. The "new" has to be at least equivalent to the old, or it will not make it.

PS: I don't care what you ride. I like what I like, and don't think a company should drop 559 if they can sell them. If they can't, it only makes sense to drop them.

 I'm not saying its a disadvantage..... Bryce was OBVIOUSLY capable of winning on 26 inch because he did in leogang.

 And the point of my comment went right out the window. I don't care whether it's 650 or 559 I just like that there are finally two extremely similar bikes one with 26 and one with 650B so we can see what the riders choose for the next three races. Sure 650b has been out for a while but the bikes they've been on have undergone big changes between revisions so the differences were much larger than just wheel sizes. Everything on this frame looks pretty darn close to the 26in frame so the bikes should ride quite similar just one will have bigger wheels. This is for science all I'm saying. I'm already sold on the idea of the two sizes coexisting I just like the competition which in turn produces better bikes.

 what part of V10 did you miss?

 There is only one shock position. So that one shock position is 10" of travel?

 @miff the syndicate team ran the 26inch v10 in the 8.5 inch mode

 thats an enduro thing right now hahaha bet is gonna happen in DH too. Poor XC guys they're being outcasted by the market hahahaha

 Eh, why?

 from the colors peekin out maybe minaar's bike. it does say syndicate on it

 well on first glance i only saw the blue bit and thought it should be red, but now i see that theyre the wc stripes, so disregard hahaha

 Take it off and ride it with the seat post up your ass then. It's like being clipped in. But more personal.

 ill leave that to you, sounds like you already have that method covered

 For a new Session Carbon 650b? They just launched it at the beginning of the season...

 signed the order already

 Please give it to me

 Next year? Used? Good luck with that...

 Unlike you my douchie friend Im not made of money!

 Is it the 650B are just new bikes coming out that happen to have 650B wheels? It's be fun to take a bike like this V-10, run a few laps on 650B then run a few laps on the same wheels and tire in 26 and see what kind of difference could be felt.

 I have ridden the bikes backl to back, and its like switching to better tires, or a new better fork/shock combo. Not earth shaking, but enough of a difference to make it worthwhile.

 Rode my Banshee Rune back to back against a Intense 275c. I timed the rides via strava...uphill times were 8 secs different (advantage Intense). On the dh I was def. faster on my Rune, but I attribute that to knowing the bike. For that amount of time "saved" going uphill I'm not going to run out and buy a 650B tomorrow.

 Willie is absolutely right. I had a pimped M9 last season and now i have a pimped 951evo. the evo's rolling speed is insane. i cant even ride behind my friends anymore. it has made me quite a bit faster.

 No kidding, well maybe there is a little notiable difference then. Thanks for the comparrison Z-Man. Im assuming you were on the same fork and shock on both rigs right?

 @WhatToBuy- If you got used to a 650b bike (in particular a 650b Rune), you would def be faster on the dh.

 Yup, same almost everything.

www.pinkbike.com/photo/10797522

www.pinkbike.com/photo/9884296