Pinkbike was invited by Marzocchi to take a tour of their US headquarters, a facility that turned out to be full of exciting new technology. While some of these developments are likely still a few years away, what we saw is indicative of a company that is focused on the future. Product development, no matter what the component, is always years ahead of what is currently available to the public, and it was great to see Marzocchi open their doors and show us some of these upcoming products.
Marzocchi is putting a lot of effort into some interesting new additions to their lineup, including an entirely new rear shock, tentatively named the Premier. Slated to be a 2013 product, the Premier will likely continue with the very active feel that Marzocchi suspension has become known for, but it will also integrate some interesting new features. The shock shown above is still in the early design stages, but Marzocchi's R and D man, Josh Baltaxe, told us that it would likely employ external adjustments for both the high and low speed rebound, although he was coy on what the finalized shock would include in the way of dials. We were only shown CAD images and a plastic 3D prototype of the new damper, but one dial that was very clear to see was the additional knob atop the now somewhat standard piggyback volume adjuster. Given that the new shock is still a long ways away from production, Josh wasn't about to give us a complete breakdown as to the function of the dual inline adjuster, but he did use the word "dynamic" when referencing the design, hinting that it may be some sort of on-the-go self adjusting system that is separate from the standard volume feature or the piggyback's internal floating piston.
While their 888 platform has been very successful in many arenas, the inverted Shiver, with its insanely supple action, is a fork that many riders remember fondly. It looks like Marzocchi is set to make a lot of riders happy by reintroducing the Shiver, albeit with more up to date damper technology and possibly a much lighter weight. The Shiver shown above looks just like the original model, but Levy spotted one big difference: check out the fork's adjustment knobs atop each leg, the very same that you would find on a 888. While the fork pictured uses the old Shiver chassis (
the lowers tubes, uppers, and fork crowns are from the original), it is serving as a test bed for future designs.
An inverted DH fork is always going to walk a fine line when it comes to stiffness versus weight (
the original Shiver wasn't known as the most rigid fork out there), with more material required to approach the torsional stiffness of a right side up fork. That is why Marzocchi is looking at using carbon fiber for the contemporary Shiver's construction, allowing them to possibly build an inverted fork that is much more torsionally stiff than the old design, but still keep the weight at a respectable figure. They wouldn't be the first to go this route, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Marzocchi take it to the next level with a one piece outer leg, lower crown and steerer tube assembly that could eliminate many of the difficulties concerning both stiffness and clamping carbon tubes. Am I off my rocker? Maybe, but I don't see the Shiver returning unless it can truly challenge the current crop of DH forks.
The photo on the left is of a carbon fiber tube that has had its external surface coated with an aluminum nano particle treatment, giving it an extremely thin coat of aluminum that would allow it to slide smoothly in and out of fork seals. While it may sound like something out of a science fiction novel, this type of technology has actually been used in other fields for many years, allowing engineers to combine the best attributes of multiple materials for one job. A carbon fiber stanchion would likely be much lighter than even a butted aluminum counterpart, and the aluminum nano coating would allow for a consistant sealing surface, something that simply wouldn't be possible with a bare carbon tube. There are, of course, many challenges when it comes to applying this technology to creating functioning fork stanchion tubes, including manufacturing tolerances and clamping surfaces (
unless it was used on an inverted for, that is...), not to mention that it is likely cost prohibitive. Remember that carbon has been used for years, with much success, to build ultra-light one piece crown and steerer tube units for high-end forks.
Marzocchi's head tech, Ronnie Dilan, was busy building up Team CRC/Nukeproof's factory racing suspension during our visit, with their '12 888 V2 EVO Ti forks receiving some extra love before being shipping off to Europe. While we would have assumed that these race forks were full of one-off damper bits and other top secret internals, Ronnie was adamant that the entire CRC/Nukeproof team uses forks that are "
very close to stock". Some minor tuning will likely be done by the CRC/Nukeproof team mechanics once they arrived across the pond, but the only modifications Ronnie makes include bumping up to 6.5 kg spring (
the stock spring is a 5.5 kg), and adding a Teflon anti-friction additive to the standard 7.5wt fork oil. Apparently the CRC/Nukeproof boys also stick with the stock shim stack for the most part, not making any drastic changes from what the average consumer can purchase.
Marzocchi forks have long used an open bath configuration, meaning that the damping oil also acts as lubrication. Because the oil is free to cycle up and down within the fork lowers as the stanchions compress and extend, it creates a very well lubricated system that can feel extremely supple. The downside to this layout, though, is that the current design depends on an oil free space, meaning air at the top of the stanchion allows for volume displacement as the fork goes through its travel. That can allow the oil to slosh around and mix with the air over rough terrain, known as emulsification, that leads to inconsistent damping. The photo above shows a 888 fork equipped with a closed cell foam compensator that takes up some of that air volume, helping to limit emulsification by compressing as the fork goes into its travel.
With the return of the much vaunted Shiver, the possibility of aluminum nano coated carbon stanchions, and a new rear shock set to debut, Marzocchi looks to be committed to mountain bike suspension for the foreseeable future. Stay tuned to Pinkbike for more information as it becomes available.
www.marzocchi.com
Sounds SO sick, but it would be just another thing that hardly anyone can afford.
www.eandsweb.com/bikes/pics/manitou/manitouFS-manitou3_older.jpg
the new 40's cartridges and many other forks of theirs have inverted internals, thus minimizing the sprung weight issue, so really no need to invert, also less flex. \
Monster T2
or my favorate Monster TRD (toyota racing developed)
I looked into it for another application a while back, but didn't have the production volume to support the research (was very early in the process's commercial life, so lots of research and custom materials were going to be required)
actually, f*ck it im gonna go ride my bike .
the proto type 888's for crc are also ti-ni not hard anodise with injected teflon (standard boxxers and older 40's)
a tripple 8 with no carbon what so ever costs near as damn 1500 id be looking towards 2 grand and above for a carbon fork.... especially if they are making a 1 piece crown/stanctions assembly
As to gold colour stanchions on mountain bike suspension forks, Rockshox was first in 1993 with the Mag-21SL model. And as for carbon fiber stanchion tubes, Showa of Japan (who made suspension forks for Trek in the early 90s) had a series of prototype XC forks which they allowed a few magazines to see (including MBA which ran a review of the fork) in the late 90s which had nickle-plated carbon stanchion tubes. If anything Marzocchi is simply copying an idea from an even bigger motorycle suspension maker (and if you don't know who Showa is, stop reading JUST bicycle mags).
mombat.org/Suspension.htm
Specifically : mombat.org/992SuspensionForks.jpg
thanx for the trip down memory lane
foesracing.com/site/company/foes-timeline
But I am stoked for the Zoke, good to see them making a challenge. I would love for them to try a DH fork with up to 9"of travel.
Then I would love to see a company telling me about: what do they do for the environment and all people involved in production. Where are their materials comig from, who and where and how smelts them, where are raw materials from: is tungsten from the uppers on marzocchi coming from Kongo - is it fair trade or are any raped women involved. Some people might really like to know.
do you really think an international company and ultimately money making business machine are not already focused on serviceability, compatibility and reliability? the better job they do in the first place means less customer disputes, refunds, and fickle buyers etc = maximising profit. yes i agree with fair trading standards but as long as they conform to the standards in the country that they are sourced and produced, zocchi have no obligation to pay any more, minimise costs maximise profit. its all well and good thinking the each company you stay loyal too whether it be sram fox whatever, your not part of theyre 'family'. your an income and i think brand loyalty gets overhyped a lot and people expect too much from someone who is ultimately there to make money. same can be said for small independant companys, yes theyre there to 'give people genuine good quality rider owned goods' but its still a business. money > people, its sad but its how it is. neg prop, it doesnt matter but some people need t telling like it is
Great to see Marzo steppin' it up!
AAAARGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!! Why dont you all you faries go take up flower arranging and leave dh for the people that LIKE TO GO FAST ON A BIKE
Basically they make the Silica used in the resin out of smaller particles so that the bond between the carbon and resin is stronger.
Cavitation is the word you are seeking for air mixing with oil, emulsification is the mixing of two different liquids that remain separated while sharing the same space (like a vinaigrette dressing).
any stiffer and you start transfering too much vibrations and shocks through the bars resulting in agonising arm pump.
but as ever its a personal preferance thing... some people love it some hate it and at the end of the day thats why theres more than once company left making forks
and the 08/09 graphics on the 38mm zocchi forks were a heck of alot nicer than the 2011/12 ones :/
Carbon stanchions sound logical for inverted forks.
Although I wonder if this is all feeling the market, and that ol Shivver is just a test bed they use as it's a simple host to use.
I'm sure I wrote this stuff 8 hours ago. Are their Pinkbike censors working for the companies?
l wonder why inverted bicycle forks haven't ever really been a mainstay.
marketing?
cost?
safety?
supply n demand?
Here is something you should read www.yamaha-motor.ca/technology/technology.php?group=M&tech=IF
maybe they "borrowed" a few ideas from elsewhere.......
dedication, promise, and technological advances that you have given to us in the 2 wheeled world, both throttled and pedaled over the past years and into the future. I can honestly say that I have used your bicycle suspension since it first came out and still use it on numerous machines. I still use 2 monsters, 1 shiver and a 66 and all have been great and never a problem with any of them ! Keep up the great work !
I love the sound of that!!!! *droolz*
It's so good to see you get involved on this thread, I wish more companies would get involved through this medium. these forums are a great way to see how people who really care ( the riders ) really feel. and if your skin is thick enough you can see some of the concerns that you have to face. Also you can see what we the riders really want. I personally look forward to seeing Marzocchi return to glory. I am still riding a 140mm bomber MX comp that I bought in the early 00's and it works great.
And for the Taiwan comment, Anyone who has been to Taiwan and has seen the level of manufacturing that is done by many of the reputable companies that are based out of there will know that many times their quality control even exceeds what is done domestic or foreign.
The past is the future
I don't know how coated carbon stanchions will turn out as carbon could flexe more than the aluminum coat, possibly causing flaking. Yeah, there is stuff that has been used for years in other industries, but that doesn't mean they will work in a cycling aplication (think TiN coating - works wonders on cutting bits, not that good in stanchions).
ti nitrate is the flaking material as trialled on boxxers several years back ... ti nitride is a slightly less smooth but load more stable compound that doesnt flake/peel
mini MONSTER T single crown. NOW!!!
With increasing stantion diameters, and the evolution of lighter, stronger alloys, and more millimetres of added suspension, year on year, a new breed of fork is imminent.
I say, revive the buried Monster T. Having previously owned several "Monsters" (, version 2001 being my favourite and a fan of the 2004 extended lowers plus the 12" Super Monster Ts), I would be a delighted Marzocchi fan to hear that you are working a new prototype for the Monster T's; single crown, or triple crown, possibly with the same previous specifications, or be it, wider, longer and lighter.
I await eagerly for any such deveploment.
Yours, in definitely.
Danny
aka. Marzocchi Fan
O que é preciso?
www.pinkbike.com/photo/1759340
fox fork, and now shivers?!
wow!
Not sure how Marzo will succeed in USD territory, but FOX guys are smart, they know how to BS. You know that all the best manufacturers like SHOWA use Kashima on sliding surfaces of their MX forks internals as well as on outside? Well if you haven't now you know, Fox knows that and they will add "spices" one at the time so you want the new smoother one next year... expect shiny gold inside before 2014.
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