Pinkbike Poll: Should Mountain Bike Companies Consider Ditching Model Years?

Feb 25, 2014 at 2:10
by Matt Wragg  
Mountain bikes aren't going to get any cheaper. That's not how the world works. If you don't believe me, look at car prices. When it was released in 1961 a Jaguar E-Type would have cost you £2,098. Its modern equivalent is the F-Type, and the entry level version will set you back a cool £58,000. Yes, you can argue that you get a lot more car today, but the plain truth is that inflation is one of the constants of the modern world. And this means that things are only going to cost more in the future. Raw material prices are going to keep rising, fuel prices are going to keep rising (those bikes have to be transported from you to the factory) and the wages for the people who make the bikes are going to have to rise so they too can afford to keep up with that inflation. If you look at the historical pricing of virtually any commodity or service in our world, you will see this trend.

Taking this as given, the question we would hope bike companies are asking themselves is: "How can we make our customers feel more comfortable with what we are asking them to pay for our bikes?" I have a suggestion - how about ditching model years?

1991 GT Xizang

An ultra high-end bike, circa 1991


Twenty years ago mountain bikes were relatively simple creatures, and their price tags were relatively modest to reflect this. In the intervening years they have evolved exponentially and there is a strong argument that today's bikes, while they are undoubtedly more expensive, offer much more value than their simpler predecessors. They last longer, weigh a lot less and allow you to do a lot more. Yet where once a top-end bike might have been $2,000, today they can be $10,000 (let's not get into the inflationary maths here about the relative values). While not everyone will be comfortable accepting a $2,000 bike going out of date within twelve months of buying it, it's a different matter to having that happen to one costing something like five times as much.

Going back to the analogy of the auto industry - they tend to work on a seven-year life cycle for cars. While your car is current, the re-sale value remains good and people can work that into part of the sums to justify buying the car. Maybe seven years is too long for a bicycle, if for no other reason than because the development rate has been much more rapid. Today, most people wouldn't choose to ride a seven year old bike because the current generation of bikes are so much better, where a seven year old car is still fairly current. But what about three years? If we're honest, those bikes from twenty years ago may not have survived this long, but today, if you buy a bicycle from one of the major manufacturers, it's a fairly safe bet that if you look after it, it will still be running nicely.

Stumpjumper 29 FSR S-Works

An ultra high-end bike, circa 2013


It is worth noting that some companies have already stepped away from at least some of the yearly cycle. Shimano tend to keep their groupsets consistent for multiple years, SRAM seem to have followed suit in recent years. Many smaller brands already do this - one of the reason Santa Cruz owners often say they like buying from the brand is that their bikes don't go out of date so quickly, and that they hold their resale value well. Expecting the whole industry to line up with each other for their release schedules is never going to happen for a myriad of reasons. It also makes sense that manufacturers are naturally going to want to update the component specs if something new comes along that they feel will offer riders a better experience on the bike, what we are talking about here would be keeping a frame design (and its colour scheme) consistent. Maybe this would help people feel they are getting better value for the price they are paying for their new bicycle.

So with bike prices set to rise further in the coming years, do you think it's time bicycle manufacturers took a long hard look at model years?

Should Mountain Bike Companies Consider Ditching Model Years?






Author Info:
mattwragg avatar

Member since Oct 29, 2006
753 articles

176 Comments
  • 101 3
 I agree with ditching model years but for different reasons. Introduce a new model when R and D justifies a new model. If the old one is cranking away just fine then run with it. If changes are needed then make a change. Don't keep shipping a crappy product just because it's not release time yet for the next generation. But don't rush a new product because some industry set date.
  • 37 1
 This is why I like buying from frame companies that sell kit packages for completes. Brands like Turner, Pivot, even Santa Cruz pretty much already have 3 year product cycles, so you know that you are buying something that's going to stay relevant for a while. The big bike brands - Trek, etc - re-do the paint schemes every year and slacken the head angle by half a degree or something lame like that. Sometimes they even pass the paint scheme down to the lower price point the following year. That's the dirtiest trick. Example: look at the 2012 trek session 88, and then the 2013 trek session 8. Also, the 2012 trek session 9.9, and then the 2013 session 88. They made the year old bikes look like the new cheaper ones.
  • 19 2
 Nothing's worse than buying a bike and having it feel outdated before it's paid off. Forget the model years and allow people to have the satisfaction of riding something modern for awhile.
  • 11 2
 Fun fact: The 2014 Norco Rampage has the exact same frame as a 2009 Norco 125, right down to the cable guides and dropouts. If it works, go with it! I love my 5 year old 125!
  • 60 3
 Paid off? People borrow money to buy a bike? That is an indication they are too expensive!
  • 29 1
 keep the model years so I can keep buying the "old" stuff for cheap
  • 10 0
 DVO is certainly not rushing at all ... LOL
  • 26 3
 @orastreet1, People borrowing money is not an indication of of something being too expensive, It's an indication of financial illiteracy. How many people will buy a pizza with their credit card? People's spending habits are the problem, not the prices.
  • 8 2
 I'm all for yearly product cycles. It spurs innovation, and provides for competition and cooperation for and between OEM's and Aftermarkets. That competition helps our wallets also. It seems the only arguments against 1 yr cycles involve peoples "feelings", and other emotional reasons. (My 2011 Fuel 7 didnt come with DRCV, but it did in 2012, and for nearly the same price. I was bummed, but I'm ok now). I try and love what i have and not what i think i need.
  • 12 0
 The problem with cycling prices is that they have vastly outpaced inflation so blaming rising costs is BS. This is especially true if you knew what big companies paid for an aluminum frame or a complete bike, its orders of magnitude lower than what the consumer pays. When Canyon and YT hit the US that might actually kill the current era of 10k bikes.
  • 2 1
 Say the bike companies all agree to this three year bike cycle. The price of the bike is gonna shoot way up. The companies have to make money so they put out a "new and improved bike" each year.
  • 2 0
 one thing that bugs me is when a company comes out with an identical bike but changes the color and you can go to you local bike shop and pick up last years version for some times half the price!! i mean its great but at the same time it bugs me haha
  • 2 0
 NinjaTY - Yes, that as well!
  • 6 1
 @poozank Keep in mind raw material costs are generally only a very small part of the development cost of the bikes. Sure if you were to grab some Comencal blueprints you could buy the material and have a frame welded for probably $1000. But that does not account for the countless hours of engineering, prototyping, testing and revisions that go into any modern frame. There is a lot of bikes on the market and no one manufacturer is producing enough volume of a model to make these costs anything but significant.

To the point of the article this problem is exacerbated by short life cycles. If a manufacturer could spread the development costs over three years rather than a single year you would probably see costs fall. To be fair I think many frame builders already do this; they use existing geometry and model lines with only minimal changes for what is essentially late production run optimization.
  • 1 0
 Model years are cool if things actually change, I'm kind of annoyed my Slayer's resale value has been lowered despite the fact the only thing that's changed is the paintjob and going to Rockshox.
  • 11 0
 Well the car pricing analogy only works when you span about 50 years. Look at a 1991 Nissan 300zx turbo which cost brand new $37,500, and today the Nissan 370z which is a much much better car costs new for about the same price the 300zx cost 23 years ago. Manufacturing techniques have become so much more advanced and efficient that there really is no excuse for how high the prices have been rising on bikes. If car companies are able to produce much better cars and sell them for prices which were equal to those over 20 years ago, bike companies can do the same.
  • 6 0
 Again it comes down to volume. Sure there is a lot more technology and engineering going into modern vehicles. BUT a lot of that technology applies directly to all models in a companies and the volume with car manufacturers is several orders of magnitude higher. There has been 16 million civics produced alone in the last 30 years. That's one model from one manufacturer (and not a particularly large one at that look at VW or GM). To compare automobile and bike sales here's a graph. But keep in mind of all those bike produced 99% are just junk commuters. If you buy high end, specially tuned products from bespoke manufacturers you have to expect to pay more just because of the R&D costs. Not to say bikes are not marked up but the frame companies are not making millions. They need to purchase all the gruppos from outside parties like shimano and sram which come with a markup to begin with. If you need the lambos of the bike world for riding you have to expect the price hike somewhat.

And the manufacturing tech has improved a lot. That's why owning a CF bike frame is even possible. Doesn't mean its cheap, its just cheap enough. Go look at the cost of carbon fiber cloth and how much you would need for a frame. Go from there.
  • 4 0
 @ninjaty - 0% financed for 18 months means not having to touch my interest-earning savings/money market account. Learn a thing or two about utilizing capital.
  • 1 0
 I agree with you. "Buy now pay later" is more of a cometary on North Americans' attitude towards money. Weather you pay interest or not, you still have debt. If you have to resort to financing, it's a pretty good indication that you cannot afford what you are buying. It's actually a pretty mediocre way to steward your finances. I know Canadians are some of the worst for personal debt. I had read its over $1.50 spent for ever $1.00 earned. I doubt the US is that far off. Although, in some cases, some people are quite smart with what they borrow and "play the game" very well. But borrowing money to buy a liability is not necessarily an intelligent use of capital. That will keep you middle class for a long time. But Back to bikes Smile
  • 2 0
 By that logic, spending money on any liability (the bike in this instance) is not intelligent use of capital, but I don't think you'd find anyone here that would go without a bike. It's not an investment, it's a commodity. Fortunately my capital reserves are larger than my outstanding balances, so there is no liability. And even if I didn't have cash on hand, or couldn't find a 0% finance option, I'd still rather pay the penalty of interest on debt to ride a bike this summer than save for 18 months and go without, just to save myself a 12% APR, and I'm sure a lot of people would say the same. Also, many people don't have strict saving habits so financing is a great way to make that commitment, as long as you're not extending yourself beyond your means.

As far as bikes go, I'd like to see model years go away, and have more focus on the model. I don't know if that would benefit companies, but for consumers it would increase product satisfaction and help retain resale values. Once the market gets saturated with a particular model, then introduce something new.
  • 1 0
 You're right. A lot of people would do the same.I didn't say don't buy a bike, I certainly would not go without one either. I just wouldn't finance one. There are other way's (ie a work ethic) to get the things you want in life. Just like being healthy or unhealthy, Financing is in fact a lifestyle.

There should be product turns for bikes every couple seasons, but how, and who would/ could regulate it?
  • 1 0
 It will always be up to the bike companies. I like model years because you can find out what came stock on a bike. From a collector or vintage point of view, model years are helpful. Even if they don't change the frame design the next year they change some parts or give the frame new graphics usually, which gives customers more options.
  • 1 0
 Yeah, what's the deal with them anyway? When are they going to start selling their forks. I thought they said back in August they'd be ready.
  • 1 0
 You hit the nail on the head. I've only been riding for 6 years but I noticed the trend. My first solid bike was a 2010 giant anthem x3, for about $1800 I got a great frame, fox float suspension front and back and a decent shimano group. These days 1800 will barely get you a frame. The next model up was about $2500 better sus and and xt group. It seems like you cant get that value in a bike anymore unless you spend over 3k. Top of the line bikes used to go for around 5k from what I remember. Then specialized came out with a 10k bike and ruined it for everyone cause all the other brands followed in suit. Its hard to get into a sport that to get a nice shiny bike you need to spend money like a motor should come with it. I'm really starting to wonder if every really makes that much more money than me or if everyone is sponsored. Either way prices and annual changes in bb, head tubes, axles sizes, suspension dampers, and wheel sizes is ruining the sport for me and alot of my friends and its intimidating others from getting into it. Something has to give.
  • 50 1
 On a more serious note, there is a very different product cycle for bikes over cars. There is a crucial difference. You cannot buy a Honda CRV chassis, take it home, go to your local Nissan dealer for a power plant, source a clutch from Ford and match it to a VW driveshaft and gearbox etc etc. You cannot keep your Citroen 2CV chassis and it's pretty revolutionary suspension and expect the latest Bowler body to fit.

However you can with bikes. Just read most of the posts from anyone old enough to have had more than one generation of bike or go to their "man-cave" and check out the boxes and boxes of rear-mechs, rims, hubs etc etc. There is no product cycle. There are only products that last and those that don't and we as consumers take it hard when someone in the industry takes our ability to re-use out parts away: as the furore over 26inch wheels betrays as does any other introduction of a new standard.
  • 3 27
flag aljoburr FL (Feb 28, 2014 at 2:51) (Below Threshold)
 You cant really modify bikes properly ether, as they are designed so you cant, for example how much lower profile rear gear mech could be, also sick of getting my computer hacked for saying this
  • 17 0
 I beg to differ. There is ample evidence to suggest the bike industry not only makes it possible (the sale of frame sets and custom builds) but also encourages the same (the existence of a plethora of aftermarket non OEM manufacturers, reviews that recommend upgrading stock parts or frames because if their ability to be used as a base for a variety of builds). The ability to adjust the ride quality and characteristics of one's ride by the modification of components is one of the reasons why we love this sport.
  • 2 17
flag aljoburr FL (Feb 28, 2014 at 3:26) (Below Threshold)
 Sorry but you are wrong Here is a link to show you how Shimano has blocked my progress over last 8 years
worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?CC=GB&NR=2434565&KC=&FT=E&locale=en_EP
  • 19 0
 "Sorry but you are wrong". Life is rarely that black and white Sir. Might I point out that I think the point I made initially and the one you are trying to make appear to be different. My initial point is about the differences between a consumer buying a car and buying a bicycle and in particular the fact that it is possible to purchase a frame and then choose the components you wish to hang from it. Yours is about a patent issue relating to the manufacture of a drivetrain.
  • 1 11
flag phobospwns (Feb 28, 2014 at 4:38) (Below Threshold)
 Sure, you can update the components, but you can never update the frame, which is the heart of the bike... just like you can't swap out your Citroen 2CV chassis for the next latest and greatest suspension design that comes out in 5 years. If you've got an old bike, you can't slacken out the the heat tube, shorten the chain stays, attach a tapered headtube, and switch to a 142x12mm thru axle.
  • 4 2
 "You cant really modify bikes properly ether" are you mad? you can change any part you want on a bike.... everyone is entitled to their opinions , no opinion is right or wrong, because it's just an option, not fact, so if that's what orientdave thinks then who are you to say he is wrong??
  • 9 9
 If you can weld and know what you are doing you can modify cars and bikes as much as you want. WRXs have been $40 000 since 1995. All other cars are shit anyway.
  • 4 0
 It has NOTHING TO DO with modifying and changing it!! It has to do with supply and demand, supply chains etc. in Biking, its RETAIL and there are multiple steps to the process. With Cars, it is off the boat, to the DEALER that ordered the car. Vehicles are necessary for transportation. Mountain and Road bikes are a luxury. More people have vehicles, more people buying vehicles, smaller margins, but make more money. They would waste too much money and vehicles would be far to expensive if they are doing what the MTB industry is doing... If toyota came out with a brand new tacoma every year, due to re-tooling of factories would cost a million dollars a truck, instead of an average of $40,000 in canada.
  • 2 0
 With a mtb you can slowly upgrade the parts then swap the frame later. Well, provided the axle width, bb width, and headtube hasn't changed.
  • 1 0
 Makripper: What is it exactly that has nothing to do with modifying and changing parts? A product life cycle? Maybe if you are a producer and manufacturer agreed, however, this article is about how consumers perceive the product cycle, not the manufacturers. Matt is suggesting, in case you have missed it, that consumers may feel less than happy about spending significant sums of cash on a vehicle (a lovely nice shiny new one that must buy you not only the bike but some exclusivity) if it becomes outdated in less than 12 months thanks to the use of model years. The bike industry can help itself, and help consumers overcome the disappointment of having their pride and joy become "outdated", as Matt suggests, by ditching model years. I am suggesting additionally that consumers also want to see their purchases "future proofed" by being able to swap and change components out; that is the issue for many I suspect regarding the wheel size issue too....26 is now old and that hurts people's pride in their bike.
  • 1 0
 Wrx's are 25k here. Your $$ way different from ours, or just more mark up for you?
  • 1 0
 As a customer I'm very happy when I can buy an "outdated" 2013 bike for 2/3 of its original price because in the shop there's a "current" 2014 model which has a different color and is 15 grams lighter Smile
Btw I still ride a 2006 Rocky Mountain Slayer (with 2013 Crossmax SX wheels, 2x10 XO groupset and dropper seatpost).
  • 1 0
 leftCoastBurn. Yeah I know I used to sell them in the states in 2001 and they were $25k then too. Back then the conversion was about spot on 58-62c USD = 1AUD now we are getting ripped off on cars as well as bikes. Hooray for free shipping at CRC. Wish they sold Long travel forks. I like that things depreciate more in the US. It makes used stuff so much cheaper. Here those same WRXs that were $40000 in 95 are still getting as much as $14000 used. Its really a numbers game. I've gotten a new old stock fork and frame from BC for considerable discount. There isn't any old stock here esp freeride or Enduro.
  • 1 0
 @choppertank you make a valid point about many things bring cheaper in the US (not just WRXs). For example, an iPad air that costs £400 in the UK costs $500 in the US, which equates to ~£300 here.
  • 1 0
 @leftcoastburn @choppertank3e @thealmightybryn
Retail prices that are fixed or mostly fixed, ie iPad or WRX, are more expensive in countries that are foreign to the manufacturer, or primary market, for good reason. You have to realize that Apple sets the price at £400 and it remains at that price for the entire product life cycle. Exchange rates however are not fixed during that time. Apple has to sell their products at a premium because of the risk they are taking that exchange rates will change unfavorably. They can and do protect themselves through hedging or purchasing a fixed exchange rate in a futures market, but the premium they pay to lock in this exchange rate all but eliminates any profit you think they are making by selling their products at a higher than current exchange rate price. It's economics. Probably not at the 101 level though...

To comment on the point of the article though... I think it could be beneficial for retailers and consumers alike for product life cycles to extend into more than one year. As the owner of a bicycle and snowboard shop I have already seen several companies begin this practice. The Session 8 is a perfect example, go ahead and take a look at the 2013 and 2014 models. Identical. Burton Snowboards has also already begun to do this with their lower end boots and bindings like the Invader boot and Freestyle binding, 2015 and 2016 models are slated to remain the same. Retailers are able to maintain higher retail prices and consumers who purchase those products don't experience such rapid depreciation. Seems like a win-win to me.
  • 17 0
 Poll is mixing up two things - how often companies should upgrade models, and whether a model should have a year attached to it.

I think they should not. Should be some version number (like Fooduro V3 etc..), but not the year. How quickly they iterate through the version, depends.
  • 4 0
 I agree a version associated with a frame rather than a model year makes more sense. Although if this became industry norm I'd still like a serial number or specific colour/livery for every amount of units produced so atleast there is a build date associated with a frame. for example when hunting on the buysell, that v3 bike may be 6months old or 3 years old, which would definitely influence the price
  • 2 0
 There needs to be some way to differentiate exactly what frame you have so you can determine part compatibility, whether it's a year designation or a model/version number. I don't want to have to memorize or carry a spec sheet with me whenever I'm looking at upgrading or replacing parts. For example: I don't know the bearing sizes in my suspension pivots, and I don't want to. I'd rather be able to call my LBS and say I have a 2012 Fooduro V3, can you order me bearings for the rear suspension?
Components are one thing, but some parts are frame particular and change when new models are introduced.
  • 4 0
 a fooduro v3 would not have any differences, call the bike shop about the v3. Once an alteration to something like that was made by the company I believe it would become a v4 would it not. the comment I made is strictly to decipher age not differences in spec
  • 1 0
 I agree, something like a different color/livery would narrow it down, like you said, or maybe the use of an id #, like the VIN on a car. Either one would help to both determine both the age and production run of a frame. You know how old it is, and I can get my parts. Everybody wins.
  • 11 0
 The only people who care about product years are people who flip their bikes each season or other people who buy their bikes second hand from these guys. I flip a bike every 3-5 years and when I buy new I buy the best of what is currently available. I'd never buy a brand new frame or fork design, I'd always buy one that is at least a season old and has had all the niggles worked out of it. Product lifecycle shouldn't be conflated with price, if you feel pressured into buying new each year then you are a mug. The rate of product innovation is inexorably slow. Buy the best you can afford, made to a spec level that you require, ride it into the ground and only replace it when it is dear or thoroughly outclassed by newer kit. I work for a kitesurf manufacturer we dropped product year naming over five years ago. As a result customers keep our gear for longer, it retains value better and we increased market share as people trust the brand more.
  • 3 1
 I would want to keep the model years for purchasing second hand bikes. One can tell what year the bike it's from with the paint scheme/color with the corresponding model year. I want to know how old something is before I buy it. Completely changes the value. Keeps people honest, etc. I can't see any benefit to dropping model years.
  • 3 0
 To be fair it would be really easy to just stamp a year date into the serial number.
  • 6 0
 Yeah, the problems described in this article are all personal problem. If you get mad or disapointed or jealous because your $10k bike from last year is no longer the newest, most advanced, most hyped up bike on the market, well, your bike company can't and shouldn't fix that for you. The yearly model refresh cycle exists because it makes sense. People tend to buy new bikes at certain times of the year so it makes sense for bike companies to make sure their models are as fresh, up to date, and competitive as possible during that time of the year. I say this as someone who has a very expensive bike (though not 10k expensive) that is more than a year old. I have seen the new and improved version of my bike come out. Sure my very expensive bike is now "Old" and its resale value is probably lower but it still rides just as well as it did before. I didn't buy my bike so I could sell I bought so I could ride it. If I am now dissatisfied with my bike I am an idiot and the bike industry can't fix my special brand of stupid.
  • 1 0
 i agree. it does come down to personal choices, priorities and tendencies for the majority. the idea of model years drives more consumption for the big players, where a V1, V2 for them is not exciting enough to market to the new rider as well as to the die hard one. smaller players cater to a different rider where they offer one to a few specific performance driven models in regards to mtn bikes where version models make more sense financially. the overhead/risk is relative to each. The bread and butter for big companies is the $400-800 range which probaly helps drive the investment for the high end. will the '15 650b change my life compared to my '12 26? nfw...but will it make me think it might? ...maybe.. at the very least make me think about it.. but i know it won't. lately, in the last few yrs, wheel sizes seem to have overshadowed "year" designations anyway.
  • 6 0
 The rush to replace bikes is no more apparent than the marathon racing crowd over here. They love the $10k Spaz S Works Epics. Since the 2014 models landed they have been drooling and selling their 2013 models. Madness. I am a bad consumer. I keep my bikes and cars for years...
  • 6 0
 One thing people seem to forget is that no matter how "outdated" or "obsolete" your bike is a few month's down the line it is still the same great bike which you felt justified it's cost at the time of purchase, the new bike doesn't make your bike worse. When it breaks or you feel like it is time for a change it is nice to know that there will be something new. The only thing affected is the resale value and if you are buying bikes as an investment it is probably time for a business course.
  • 1 0
 Exactly! A good bike doesn't automaticaly becomes a piece of shit because a new slightly updated model came out. I don't mind this, I just take advantage and buy all my bikes second hand at a good price during the winter because their owner absolutely needs to have the latest, and need a quick sell because they can't pay for it.
  • 4 1
 It doesn't immediately become a POS but it does hurt the resale value considerably when you have new bikes coming out every year.

Basically companies operate on two principles planned obsolescence and perceived obsolescence.

Perceived obsolescence = Year to year, companies change the paint job or a slightly different head angle, etc. The perception is my bike is no longer cool because it is not the newest model despite being very similar. Fortunately, you can take your bike apart and move all the components to a new frame and it will be cooler.

Planned obsolescence = Every 3-5 years, companies completely change their product lines. This is to prevent people from using old parts with the new technology forcing them to get the newest gear.

RockShox Boxxers from 2005-2008 had 32mm stanchions. They did change some things over that time: the dampener, rebound and logo design as perceived obsolescence, but the parts were interchangeable. In 2009, the stanchions became 35mm. This means one cannot use the internal parts from a 2008 Boxxer on a new 2013 stanchions and lowers bought online. You must buy the whole new 2013 Boxxer fork.

What I see is perceived obsolescence from year to year which I could care less about, and planned obsolescence every 3-5 years. There will always be people out there who want the newest gear and are willing to pay for it. These people help keep the companies going by being the Innovators/Early Adopters paying those high bike, laptop, iPhone prices. Meanwhile, the rest of the market, the majority and the laggards, will buy the products when they are more affordable and don't care if it is the newest stuff. These people will eventually be dragged into the new product lines through planned obsolescence.

www.altastreet.com/sites/all/files/asxhost/20110714211709!DiffusionOfInnovation.png
  • 2 0
 You are perfectly right. I would like to put a charger damper in my lyrik, but they made it half inch shorter so you have to buy a new pike instead if I want the new damper, and that was on purpose. That's the nature of capitalism, compagnies are in business to make a profit. But I can live with a 5 year cycle. At least, the improvements are usually significant enough that you can feel a real difference in performance. There is always the second hand market if you want to maintain your old parts.
  • 1 0
 Agreed.
Who came up with this poll anyways? A manufacturer?
I've been into MTB long enough to see that even from very early on it was "fashion" to have "This seasons" bike, often the only thing that changes is the graphics. Combine marketing with guys inherent fascination with collecting, upgrading, going faster , and year models make good business sense.
The manufacturers are never going to change to a 3 year cycle or whatever..... The yearly bike shows would be Shite for a start, and Pinkbike would have no new bikes to review !

As for older bikes not lasting as long..... Bollox, how many 90's bikes are still going? And how many modern carbon or alu frames will still be ridden in 20 years time huh?
And bike weights have gone up in the main, not down, can't think of all that many modern bikes that are sub-25lbs......
Today's MTB's do allow you to go to more places, and go faster, but at what cost? 1). Longevity. 2) Weight. 3) Price.
  • 8 0
 I do not care what year my stove or oven is.....i buy the model that fits my needs
  • 9 2
 Yes! No reason why a new colour scheme needs to make existing colours worth 10-25% less
  • 12 0
 but poor people like me love to reap that benefit! Wink
  • 4 0
 Agreed, now that I think about it. There's a whole market of people that simply don't buy new at regular price. They either wait until sale season or buy second-hand. This is a great opportunity for a lot of people to enjoy that new-bike-smell at a price that's palatable.
  • 4 0
 I've never bought a bike new. Components that wear I buy new, but others that can be rebuilt I look to the used market first. I don't have enough disposable income to buy bikes brand new. Heck, both of my bikes are from 2009 and I bought one last year and one the year before. If I total all the money I've spend on bikes over the past 5 years (when I started riding and excluding wear items), I'm only out $1200 for both bikes. A Transition Double and Bottlerocket. Current gen technology? nope. I'm the fastest up or down? nope. Boatloads of fun because its mountain biking? You betcha.
  • 4 0
 I think one of the best ways to choose a bike is to look at bikes that are for example five years old. Pick the brand whose models still look relatively current, are still respected and that still have a good resale value. I think Santa Cruz is one of the brands that come out on top in this respect.
  • 2 0
 How about choosing a bike based on how it rides? And whether it is best suited to your riding needs/ budget?

Buying a bike based on the Brand or looks is kind of missing the whole point.
  • 4 1
 I have a 10 year old bike that I let people who want to try mountain biking ride. The bike rides fine and honestly, for its age has held up remarkably well. Of course, I tell people that the newer bikes are much nicer however, to a new rider, it really does not make much of a difference.

I think the trend is in the technology, if a new design or drastic change takes place it motivates people to buy a new bike. However, a fast rider on an old bike will still out ride a beginner on a new and more advanced bike. I think it really comes down to whether or not the latest technology offers the rider enough to warrant the cost and upgrade.

That being said, similar to cars...you cannot always be current, you have to be wise and pick something you will be happy with over the period of time you plan on keeping the car. (just my view)
  • 3 0
 I'm riding a Santa Cruz Nomad and heading into year 6 with that bike. The current AL Nomad is the essentially the same bike with a thru-axle. I sense that the Nomad will get an update to 650B on 1 Apr, but 5yrs+ is a great run for a bike model and I like the fact that SC releases solid designs that can stand the test of time.
  • 2 0
 i think bikes have gotten cheape, or at least better for the money. my first new bike was a stinky deluxe and it was 3500 or something. not super sure but i think the equivolent bike today is 500-1000 dollars cheaper with better components.
  • 2 0
 Developments in materials and design are always going to increase prices and influence the direction biking takes, I can't afford to change my bike from the 09 model I ride but I enjoy maintaining it as well as riding it. Things do get better and so cost more for the first couple of years of availability but then filter down to models that I may want to buy. The same is true of cars, I can't afford a new Range Rover either but it doesn't stop me watching Top gear. Also if you take away the desire for ever new stuff do you remove some drive, or is it just consumer driven greed ?
  • 3 0
 Even just releasing them in the actual year of that model would be nice. You could buy a '14 Spesh back in August and now in February '14, models like the E29 are hard to get hold of or are sold out.
  • 3 1
 When you look at Rock Shox' lineup for example, you will notice that some of their designs are about 9 years old and still running strong, like the Domain, the Argyle (RC and R) and the Lyrik. They update the internals when necessary and keep the rest because it still works great. That should be the way to go in my opinion: Develop the shit out of something until it doesn't need any major updates for the next couple of years.
  • 2 0
 I think it's worth noting that while car manufactures have a 7ish year model cycle, the model undergoes a substantial facelift at the midpoint- getting new trim levels, usually all non-structural body panels are replaced, in order to make the car more appealing to a newer market. Bikes don't have the luxury of having non-structural parts- there's nothing you can change without changing other parts of the bike.

Take the Yeti 575 as example. From 2010 to 2011, Yeti pulled out the wheelbase slightly and changed the rear triangle to all aluminum instead of carbon AND aluminium. The reason for pulling out the wheelbase is that there was more demand for longer wheelbase bikes. Because of the way the geometry of suspension works, they couldn't just slap on a new rear triangle- and nor can you should you break your 2010 carbon one (or want the Yeti Switch tech from the 2011 model). They had to revise the rear triangle, control arm, AND the front triangle. The bike still looked almost exactly the same, only it had a longer wheelbase- but it doesn't share a single part (except for bearings and stuff) with the model a year before.

It's also a really unfair comparison to not take inflation into account- Especially when at the beginning you claimed that, "inflation is one of the constants of the modern world." A lot can happen in 20 years- not to mention the fact that, when it comes to mountain bikes, at that time they were a TINY niche market, and there wasn't NEARLY as much technology going on in them. It's not like the car industry that's been around for 100 years- mountain biking is still a baby, industry wise.

TL: DR everything after the first paragraph of this article is kind of useless. Sorry if that seemed harsh.
  • 3 0
 `Take the Yeti 575 for example` Hahahahaha
  • 2 0
 If it's not model years attached to the naming scheme wouldn't they just replace it with something else? Instead of a 2012 vs 2013 Yeti SB66 you'll end up with a SB66 1.0 and 2.0 ... the progression in marketable selling points will still be updated on a yearly basis..(because, lets face it, that is exactly what they are... upgrades that are marketed to us so that we feel that the bike we bought last year is less of a machine).

I think at the end of the day it's just semantics... I think we as riders should focus on our RIDING rather than what's the latest-and-greatest in the world of MTB-tech...
  • 2 0
 Ιt would be great if companies released new models when there is something new to release. A 0.5 degree slacker head tube or new colorway does not make it a new bike. If a model is kept identical for 2-3 years there is enough time to penetrate the market and (if it's good enough) make a good reputation for itself to keep selling untill replaced. This will also help shops stock product if they know that they can keep selling for more than six months (and not have to discount heavily to get rid of old stock).
  • 2 0
 Wheel sizes have not helped de-value peoples bikes overnight. Loads of people still want to ride 26" but 'the industry' says otherwise. If you don't build them people can't buy them. Too many companies have stopped making 26" or are thinking about it not because people want it but because the powers that be say you either buy 27.5 or stick with your 'old dated' bike!
  • 1 0
 Couldn't rightly give two shits if my bike is the latest model. It's everything I want it to be.

Now, I'm like, really unfashionable running 26" still but, I love riding the bike.

It is however, quite interesting seeing the developments coming through, how they affect the new bikes and improve performance...or not.

Then in 3, 4, 5, 6 years when I decide I fancy a change, there's all that development that's been tried and tested to tempt me!
  • 1 0
 same with me i have a 02 balfa bb7 and it still is the shit i love it and anyway im not into World cup dh and even if i were id have a free bike so ride ur bike take care of it and change for new parts if they break thats it Smile
  • 1 0
 A multi-year model cycle doesn't mean squat. Companies will innovate as quickly as they want, and the improvements trickle down rapidly. A company isn't going to wait to release a fix or improvement.

We want this, it creates a rapid evolution, and it's the reason that in my short lifetime we've gone from triple triangle 80mm HT's to 150mm FS rigs that ascend just as well, weigh nearly the same, and can take an order of magnitude more abuse.

Even in cars, the multi-year cycle doesn't apply. Year by year, small improvements are made. Heck, it's pretty common for changes to happen mid-year (off the top of my head, 1967.5 mustangs are an example). The model year means when that version was put into production, not when it was designed, and it usually disregards any incremental changes (like a fix for a recalled part).

At the end of the day, bikes follow a similar cycle to cars and electronics-big changes every 5-10 years, incremental changes incessantly. It is what it is.
  • 1 0
 No. as a consumer, and as someone who doesn't buy bikes often, no, it shouldn't matter. If you have riders who ALWAYS have to have the newest model of bike simply because "IT'S 2014 NOW!" then I'll gladly reap the benefits of them selling their old bike that, to me, is still relevant as long as it pedals and feels good between my legs (lol). I don't think that bikes depreciate too much over a few years, I think value depreciation simply comes from how outdated that version of the bike is.

Innovation continues, and if the sucker who bought a bike two years ago can't ride his bike anymore simply because it's two years old, then let him spend another $10k on the brand new year model. I imagine the guy who put that bike together at the factory could use the paycheck.
  • 5 2
 "How can we make our customers feel more comfortable with what we are asking them to pay for our bikes?" I have a suggestion too. Bring the bloody prices down.
  • 1 0
 Transition did this for a number of years until they just had to conform, because of customers as far as I can tell. They regularly had to explain that they felt they should be able to update models or let them ride whenever they saw a need to, not just year to year. It was actually a cool approach but people were always acting all confused about it ("what year is this bottlerocket?"), and in the last couple years they've slipped into line with the rest industry.

It's not as if every model is changing a lot every year anyway. Rather than ditch model years, I'd rather see more of us as customers reject the prevailing notion that every year every bike (and every part) performs drastically better than last year's version. Bikes are reaching a point of subtle improvement; a tweak here, a new idea there. They've also grown so durable and well performing that the industry constantly pushes changes to motivate people to buy new bikes. For the average rider, many of these changes don't make much of a difference. Some changes are just trends that could reverse direction in a few years. (I wouldn't be surprised if one day in the future someone is raving about the unique gains of a shorter top tube, smaller wheel, or narrower handlebar.) We can ride the same bike for a few years, perhaps update parts here and there, save some money and not miss out on any huge performance advantages. And my guess is that this is how most pinkbikers work anyway. You should do a poll asking how long we keep our bikes.
  • 1 0
 Absolutely. I had a Blindside V1 (no idea at all what that meant year wise) and a V3 Bottlerocket (only the colors said it was a 2010, but I never knew). I have a V2 BFe from Cotic (they never put years on their bikes) and a Spitfire V2. I personally do not care what year anything was made. The notion as you say that the 2013 model must perform better than the 2012 model makes no sense to me, or many others I suspect.
  • 1 0
 I feel that the current system works fine, there is a reason why things have advanced so quickly, I think annual model changes/refinement helps to push innovation and advancement in tech, which more often than not year after year filters down to the more affordable price ranges.
It also helps feed the large used bike/parts market where there are massive bargins to be had.
  • 1 0
 I don't see getting rid of model years as a way to bring prices down. There's to much change across the board, weather that comes from component changes, tweaks in the geometry, perhaps the shock or fork got upgraded internals, or the bike manufacturer got a better deal to buy from another component manufacturer, maybe the manufacturing process for the bikes frame changed itself.

As for the auto industry reference, an auto may be current for 6 or 7 years, but it is a lot bigger piece of machinery and engineering that takes a lot more time to test properly, and an auto has a ton more standards it has to conform to before it can be released so it will be current for longer.

Version #'s, model years, nearly the same thing, you can only hope that manufacturers can find ways to bring their cost down, which would lead to lower cost for the consumer. Sometimes it happens, but more often than not, even if the manufacturer finds cheaper ways, they'll pocket that savings, not pass it on to us!
  • 2 1
 I haven't suggested that ditching model years would reduce prices - the question is whether people who vocally complain about the cost of bikes would feel better about them if the market cycle was changed to put more emphasis on the longevity of the bike you bought.
  • 1 0
 I got pretty fixated on the price thing, I understand more now of what you are getting at! My bike is 7 years old, I wore through every component on it, had a choice of upgrading all the components on it or buying a new bike outright the other year. It was cheaper for me to upgrade all my components than to get a new bike, and the bike frame & bearings were still perfect after thousands of miles on it so I feel like it had proven it's longevity, and still would in the future, especially since the new enduros still employed the FSR suspension type. But that was my specific situation.

Do you also think that a bikes warranty shows confidence in their longevity? I like the fact that my frame is lifetime, I know some companies offer limited time periods, and for a lot of folks it is a factor in buying from the start.
  • 1 0
 I have no problem with companies upgrading and improving models without renaming but colour scheme and rear derailleur changes just for the sake of calling it a "20XX" version is pointless. Make a bike and stand by it for more than 12 months please.
  • 2 0
 There is a problem with the three year cycle. Sometimes something that really makes a bike better comes out. Do we really want to wait 3 years for all the companies to find ways to incorporate these innovations?
  • 3 0
 That's right. Poll should have the option "irregular updates depending on reasonable enhancements".
  • 1 0
 Yeah, I'm not sure how bike manufacturers ditching model years would help. The bike industry seems to be driven not only by the bike companies, but the aftermarket companies themselves. It's not like the auto industry where your ford cars have mainly ford products on them, and so on. Bikes, different companies make different parts, the drivetrains are supplied by sram or shimano, cockpits can be house brands or aftermarket, and you'll get all of this, when you buy a new bike. So really, the only thing that would lower the price of a new bike would be cheaper, not necessarily in quality, parts. That's pretty obvious.
  • 1 0
 I buy what i think is a good deal, a fair price, I also buy used parts as long as it is in good condition and still....at a fair price. I do not change parts that often since I am not into whats new and whats hot...but change when i feel it is necessary., ..there are just some things we can afford not to afford.
  • 1 0
 There is another, much more concerning issue arising lately: the discontinuation of "frame sets". A few years back, you could buy dozens of different frames for any category of mountain bike. Today your choice is *very* slim. This also lowers value for existing bikes, because "in the old days", when your frame failed, you could just get a new one and keep using you old parts.

Today you buy a new one, and sell the parts off for cheap, or keep them as "spares", just to throw them away ten years later.
This, plus the fact that five years down the line, most "standards" for mounting parts onto frames have changed - wheel size, axle diameter, brake mounting, steerer diameter, bar clamp diameter, seat post diameters, BB fitting... And most of the new stuff doesn't even make a difference.
  • 1 0
 I agree that it would be nice to have a bike hold it's resale value for more than a few years, but it's just not plausible for bike companies not release new bikes every year because of the extreme level of progression that is occurring.
  • 2 1
 I guess ill be a grammar nazi. guys you really need to learn how to use the word CIRCA. You cannot use it when you know the EXACT year of creation of something. You use it when you dont know the exact date, but want to give a possible year for the creation. Also no I like new shit to come out every year.
  • 1 0
 I feel that they should keep the frame design and paint schemes the same for a 3-5 year cycle, test it well and be confident in your product that it doesn't need new paint or a redesign every year. Change components as necessary every year, whether the new pike came out or 1x11 is now available in a group appropriate for the price. I think companies that change the frame every year or close to it are short changing us, obviously the amount of r&d that went into it cannot be substantial, and why should it be if there is a new one around the corner. In addition to this, price would go down on frames! At least at the manufacturing level. Quantity is everything in mass production when it comes to price. If a company can make a carbon mold for any given model and not have to throw it away in 2 years, obviously production costs would go down and hopefully savings would be passed onto the consumer.
  • 1 0
 Personally I feel that it really comes down to how you take care of your bike, I have a 2004 kona stab, I love it and it rides beautifully. I plan on riding that bike for at least 2 or 3 more years, but it retailed at around $2800 new, I might be lucky to get $500 for it now, simply because of inflation. It rides great and can handle just as much as all the new bikes, but because it has a model year people think its old and shitty.
  • 1 0
 Getting rid of model years of bikes is a great idea, and will actually help local bike shops too. At the end of every season, LBS's are forced to heavily discount current model year bikes (sometimes at a loss), to make room for next year's models. Without this pressure, the LBS's can price their products more consistently. Maybe you won't get your big end-of-season blowouts, but new models won't be so expensive either. Also, LBS's won't have to be so careful not to overstock or understock a model as it becomes available, as they won't have as tight a timeline to sell them. And lastly, factors such as the economy and the weather will not be as much of a problem for the LBS too. When times are tough, people spend less on bikes. This can lead to your LBS having overstock and not being able to move current model year bikes. If you have a short or particularly rainy summer, this can also lead people to buy less, and cause your LBS to be overstocked.

Getting rid of these artificial pressures of getting rid of current model year bikes will help LBS's in general. Customers will enjoy more consistent and fair pricing, and the stores will enjoy the profit margins they project.
  • 1 0
 Most new models are a new paint scheme and component change. Some depending on R+D will make geometry changes, or even complete re-designs if necessary. The components change just as fast as the frames and suspension do, so if you were to eliminate model years, you would be putting the brakes on the progression of this wonderful sport.
  • 1 0
 Silly questions IMO - should they? maybe, maybe a process of constant evolution would be better than annual refreshes - after all some of the small outfits like Cove, Santa Cruz and Intense don't, the bikes change when there's something new to offer.

But the off the shelf bikes are always going too, it's what makes that 'old', but perfectly functioning 2011 bike seem old fashioned and decidedly unbling - even if the new model is just the same in a different colour, or has a tiny spec change.
  • 1 0
 Stupid fake innovation. The 1991 GT would still handle 80% of the riders on here's level of riding.
The tapered head-tubes and other bullshit fake innovation is just so the bigger companies can try to keep control of the market.
  • 2 0
 Id say half the riders on here would destroy your ancient bike.
  • 1 0
 My 2013 Stumpjumper is better up the climbs and faster down the descents than my 1998 equivalent, which I still have; the new bike is lighter, stronger and more versatile, it stops better and handles better. I'd say it's worth the extra £1000-1500 or so, even before you take into account the effect of inflation.

If mountain bikes were purely utility vehicles, you'd be right and there'd be no advantage in having a better bike to ride from A to B. But they're not, they're the gateway to our hobby: bigger climbs, steeper descents and enjoying it in all conditions.
  • 1 0
 Mattwragg makes an interesting point which I can only add this to.... Unhappy about bike prices??? Eerrrrmm.... Buy a cheaper one? Or save more money? If you can't afford it, too bad. (I can't afford a $10,000 push bike but I don't cry about it or dislike my bike any less) If you can't 'justify' because you justified the money elsewhere then... Get a grip, nobody cares that you spent the difference on Michael Buble Live in Vancouver.
  • 1 0
 Dat Buble tho...
  • 1 0
 The original statement about things "costing more" in the future is misleading. Yes the actual, numerical price is higher but this is irrelevant. Considering the theory of inflation means that money is devalued and in general, with more inflation, firms will pay their employees more, the actual, numerical price increase is ruled out by the fact that the currency has devalued and more currency is in circulation for individuals to spend on the newly more "expensive" items. Simply, bikes' (or any other goods') price increase is generally cancelled out by the fact that because of inflation, the scarcity of money falls (there is more currency in circulation) and in turn, it's value falls. Because of this, products haven't become more expensive in "real terms".
  • 1 0
 Companies should stick to invention rather than date. New genious improvement after one year? Money can buy everything, but this should not be the case in biking. I think 3 years is at least the time to invent an improvement to a product and test it so that customers won't have to. It does not really matter if a bike is new or old by couple years, but if it is good. I'd prefer older frame, which is tested and proven instead of a new fashion, which could be simply just a "lifting" of colour designs. So it does not matter to me if I have something new, but well working and sure. Currently I am riding a 6 year old frame, because I can see nothing better for me at a comparible price (price of a new products). To buy something persuasively better I would have to spend 4 times more. Am I 4 time better rider than last year? A credible invention after long time is worth more than a freequent commercial, provided that producers perceive riders to be inteligent human beings.
  • 1 0
 It's also the case about wheels dimensions so changing nowadays that I stopped any investment to wait, check and see. I love 26", but what if there are no 26" bikes offered within next two years? Why should I spend 4 times more on something that can be impractical history with no spares in two years? The rule applies to all inventions in the buisness. Too much motion brings disorientation and most customers like to spend their money wisely.
Apart from this the vast majority rides no more than 2 - 3 times a week, optimistically. We have to live and earn for biking as well. Season lasts, lets assume, 8 months, so there are no more than 8x4x3=96 opportunities / a year for riding. Average riding lasts 2 hours lets assume so it's no more than 200hours of using a brand new bike to buy newer the next year. It's sounds ridiculous but it's true. We buy bikes to be best. The materials, the technology. All this and that for 200hours of riding? Clever hint is to buy a second hand one. Is this what we all want?
200 hours isn't even enough to learn the equipment. Bike has to become part of body to be used well. The process lasts. In my opinion at least two seasons.
  • 2 0
 I have a friend who bought a new bike for $5000, rode it 5 times, then sold it for $3600. The worst part was that he liked the bike.
I think you will find that there is a trend that people who spend more money on their bike are likely to spend more time riding it.
My girlfriend has no problem with me spending 6k on a new bike every 2 years or so as she knows that I get my full moneys worth of use from it cause I ride often and hard as I can.
On a related note, I paid 2k for my car 4 years ago and have no intention of upgrading till it dies. To me, image does not enter the equation.
  • 1 0
 Most of people who I know and who ride bikes have cars 5 times cheaper than bikes. This does not surprise me at all. It is getting harder and harder to take pleasure from driving. Rules, traffic, fuel price etc. ..but what I dislike most is that people who spend a lot of money and the highest amount among customers, do not ride it so much as you claim. It is not so. I disagree. There are people who buy cheap bikes and don't ride, people who buy average bikes and ride a lot (to this extend you are right) and people who have to buy something posh and expensive every year just to show off. The last group is wrong. I know some of them and whenever it's a beautiful summer and a single worse day of weather they are looking at me like at an alien if I ask them for riding together. They're just scarred to get tires dirty. There is the trend among sadly increasing number of my firends just before season, like now for example, or in next three months. They know I am indidual and creative, so they like to spy on me about my plans of shopping for the opening season. The answear is my bike being just godd enough and I only want to change things that wore down like tires, brake pads etc. I am still average rider and there was no dramatical increase in my technique nor fitness so why should I need new posh stuff? Because Pinkbike shows goodness? Becasue people will share prices and buying stories whenever they gather in forest. More and more people treat bikes like trading and boasting and they spend 3 hours on talking with friends and 5 minutes for two descends. Whenever I ignore their conversation and go riding they talk behind my back and treat me like an outsider, because I have my bike to ride it, not to talk about it. This way ditching new model every year will add the next topic. Why anybody from the group has last years bike? The more money you spend on bike the higher the status among group. This is truelly sick and sad, and I am riding alone again.
  • 1 0
 Must be the different location! We may have a bit more sense down here in Nz.
  • 1 0
 Location, nation and culture altogether, but I am sure there are all possible kinds of people in every country, so this way you are just lucky not to meet such. As for Poland the democracy, capitalism, relative wealth began no earlier than 20-30 years ago. Earlier we were under russian communism. As far as economy and public economical behaviours is concerned it just like the USA in their 30'ties or any country in their stage of development. So people are generally very similar everywhere.
  • 1 0
 I'm starting to realize why people go riding without you! :-)
  • 1 0
 It's my choice. They're calling my phone each Thursday and Friday, but I just don't wanna discuss bikes standing in forest among the group. Whenever I go alone I ride till exhaustion. Whenever I go with them I feel like riding more when it's already time to go back home.
  • 1 0
 Introduce a new model when R and D justifies a new model. If changes are needed then make a change. Don't keep shipping a crappy product just because it's not release time yet for the next generation. But don't rush a new product because some industry set date. Brands like Turner, Pivot, even Santa Cruz have it right, You can even get a black bike. Think about aircraft, helicopters take years to get out of the prototype stage. The safest helicopter around was first built and sold in the sixties. Sure there are newer heli's that are more modern with advances like no grease rotor heads and tail rotors. But many of these are still prototypes.
  • 1 0
 Complete bikes are based on "bike platform", so the frame may stay the same (4 years) but the spec/color might change from year to year. The standard use for a carbon mold is three years to pay off or amortized the cost w/ a factory. So after the third year, the mold is paid off and profit is good for the brand for the fourth year. After that they are about at the end of the relevancy of the current design and have to create a new model. However the mold or parts of the mold can be modified slightly for different BB or minor details w/ out creating a complete new mold. Now this does not mean they will not have model years since spec / color change year to year. I too wish for no model years but ok w/ minor changes to spec to keep it current to sell better... now I just wish I could ride today but raining cats and dogs.
  • 1 0
 With 27.5, sooner or later we will ALL need a new bike. Year to year models are fine in the full suspension world. Tweaks to the FSR suspension has evolved to a really good Specialized Enduro. Hardtails from 10 years ago, if done right, are still relevant today. I have a 2001 USA Made Santa Cruz HT that was made for 140mm forks. Still the best riding hardtail I've ridden.

Pricing is my only issue. Here's my example, Ktm dropped the price of the 2014 690 Super Duke by $1900, roughly 20% compared to the 2009 model and the 2014 offers more power, better gas mileage and revised parts and is still $1000 cheaper than an S-Works Enduro. KTM did R&D on the 690 motor, frame, swingarm and electronics, even had traction control added!! That's the part that is so hard for me to grasp, moto's have gone slightly up in price, about 20% in 10 years (Duke not figured in), full suspension mtb's have gone up 80% in 10 years, like the specialized Enduro Comp. Even if I just received an inflation raise over the 10 years at my job, it would only be 25%. May pay has only increased 35% in 10 years. Decent complete bikes have been out of my reach for about 3 years, that's why I kinda want 26 to last...
  • 1 0
 asking mountain bike companies to only release new models every couple of years is like asking a car company to thwart R and D just so the resale values on previous models stays higher longer, sure you could withhold new innovations from the public for awhile but then competing companies would beat you to the punch in having the "first product"

staggering new model years is the same as thwarting innovation, if your thwarting innovation then you are being counterproductive to the development of the mountain bike
  • 1 0
 horses for courses I say. there will always be people who want the latest and greatest thing available no matter the cost. likewise there will always be people like me who refuse to spend more than £100 on a set of brakes so buy the 2012 slx brake set rather than the 2013.

I ride a 17 year old bike and a 7 year old bike, both Santa cruzes, and they are as awesome now as they were brand new and I doubt a 2014 bike would contain enough added awesomeness to make me part with £2000+

I agree with comments made that if parts weren't on a yearly cycle then you wouldn't be so easily able to get cheaper year old replacements, such as my year old slx brakes. which are awesome by the way!
  • 1 0
 Hello Everyone. Kinda making a problem out of a non-problem. Do I really care about that guys comment saying that poor LBSs have to discount past year models at a loss sometime? Not really. Better for me. If you are an informed buyer, all these concerns about costs are a non issue cuz you know what to buy and at the best price. Want new and shiny, then buy it!!
  • 1 0
 I ride an 07 Sx Trail, its been stripped and powder coated, all the components have been upgraded, why spend thousands of pounds on a new bike when simply servicing and replacing the bearings of your oldie has it running like new year in year out! I will be worn out before my bike!
  • 1 0
 Bike shops are the worst. They constantly make everyone feel Like their bike is old and crappy. Smirk and scoff when you bring in a 6 year old free ride bike to get over hauled . Guess what? Bike parks kick the shit out of bikes. Why drop 6k on a bike that is going to get thrashed?
  • 1 0
 Most bikes don't have a total overhaul every year, look at the Specialized Demo in the archives from year to year, a major geometry change every 4 or 5 years, but other than that only newer components make a difference between last years and this years.
  • 1 0
 I have a 1997 GT Zaskar that i have done everything from xc to dh to trials to dj. And its still in one piece. I have upgraded all the parts. And its about time i did it again. I have an echo pure for trials now and a 2007 RM switch for fr and dh. I believe if you have something that feels great and lets you have fun then keep it. You can always replace parts. But if it doesn't suit you riding style get something else. Any one want to buy my Echo? It doesn't fit my trials style.
  • 1 0
 One final point, after all this whining about the price of bikes and being able to buy a crap car for the same money etc.... Has anyone noticed that bikes are f*cking amazing these days? That's why they're expensive. If you've been riding longer than five years you will suspect this truth. If you have been riding over two decades you will know it as fact.
And people who tell me 'I can get a car for that!', so what?! You can buy a mobile phone for the price of a coffee, a car for the price of a house, a painting for the price of a football team, etc. And they're normally the sort of tight wads who won't splash out on anything and if they ever do, it'll be 'oh so justified', not like your 'overpriced bikes'.
Summing up, be aware of people who want to tell you that you spent TOO much of YOUR money on what YOU wanted. And then explain to them that they could've bought a cheaper watch, top, hat, phone, wallet, car, house, bike, etc. But they didn't??!
  • 1 0
 Sadly this is not in the bike manufacturer's power. The cycle is largely dictated by Shimano model years forcing them to re-spec the bikes and journalists/shows play a part too.
  • 2 0
 I`m still riding a 1992 Full XT Orange Prestige....Whats all this silly talk about Disc brakes,Suspensions and cabon thingy....I say kiss my balls.
  • 1 0
 a yearly development cycle helps sell more bikes. with all the big companies trying to tell us how much better there new models are over the last ones. this is not just in the bicycle world, you could look at Apple as well
  • 3 0
 All the companies benefit from the media around the yearly cycle, so they won't ditch it.
  • 4 0
 Im missing the ''I DONT CARE'' option in the poll.
  • 1 1
 The real issue is the inflation fraud and the fuel fraud. Filthy expensive fuel is totally unnecessary and has been for about a century. As for inflation, can anyone explain why we need it without touching on the whole fiat, bankrupt, money as debt, enslaved nations thing? Probably not, because we don't need it. Greedy banks need it. Unless we address the fraud of the monetary system you can rest assured that you grand children will be paying $50,000 for their specialized enduro 2058..
  • 4 0
 If your bikes awesome...its awesome. No matter what the year!
  • 3 0
 ^^^ The above statement is a fact !!! There's only three types of bikes out there (Awesome, average or shitty) and the ONLY person qualified to make judgement on which category their bike slots into is the owner/rider. Which model year / paint a bike is makes rock all difference in terms of which of the three categories the rider should put the bike in.
It's like Matt said when he was taking the piss....

" I'm fast, way faster than you! My bike is clean and my gear's brand new!"

Don't let yourself become a part of the crowd that the rest of us make fun of just because the industry has managed to convince you that you NEED the latest 2014 product in order to have fun on your bike !! Go back and re-watch 3 minute gaps. That gear's way old in MTB terms now.....but.....would you say they're having a measurable amount of less fun on those "old" 2009 bikes???
  • 2 0
 Bikes are cheaper now than they've ever been. Its only the people who need the latest and greatest who end up paying top dollar.
  • 1 0
 If this helps to drop the prices I'll say yes, but if they do it to maintain prices and increase revenues as I guess it'll be, then buy a yt. I'll never buy a +5000€ bike with avid brakes and other crappy stuff.
  • 1 1
 Ha! The contention that a modern bike will last longer than the old bikes from the 80's and 90's is a hoot. I'll take a bike made with steel or aluminum over plastic any day for longevity. Modern bikes are more complicated with hydraulic systems, multiple pivots to wear out and two shocks that will blow seals and bushings eventually. I haven't been in the new bike market since I had kids, but if I can't imagine the riding experience on modern bikes is that much better today than it was a decade ago. Heck seeing that some of the classic extreme North Shore trails are being left to rot I suspect modern bikes are less and less likely to be asked to do the extreme things they were last decade. Anyhow this thread is a bit of a moot point to me. The last time I was anywhere near to being able to afford a top end bike was 1992 when I bought my Stumpjumper and If I could drop 10K on a bike doubt I'd buy top end today because the miniscule improvment in performance isn't worth it to a weekend warrior like me. And really, bikes are no different than consumer electronics. The product you buy today was obsolete the day it came off the assembly line and that will never change.
  • 1 0
 SRAM and shimano have not kept the group sets the same year after year or we would still be on 8 speed. change for the sake of it. And we wonder why more people don't get into the sport.
  • 1 0
 "How can we make our customers feel more comfortable with what we are asking them to pay for our bikes?" I didn't realize their prices were negotiable...
On another note, my 11 year old Giant DH Team is still rollin strong!
  • 1 0
 Don't really care. Just because a new bike comes out does it mean yours is any worse?

I have a 2013 Tallboy LTC in yellow.

No way do I want a 2014 or 15 in blue. Yellow is way better.
  • 1 0
 Without naming product year cycles the industry would instead push through faster standard changes to make current bikes obsolete, meaning more bike bits in landfill or paperweights.
  • 1 0
 Every time I introduce people to mountain biking, they are excited. Then I tell them how much bikes cost and they're like, "I could buy a decent car for that much!" and I'm like... yep. Crazy. It's crazy.
  • 2 3
 This article is INCORRECT and MISLEADING. You need to fix your economics. Pinkbike, please do not teach kids incorrect principles.

Just because the sticker price of bikes increases over time does NOT mean it is more expensive. Whether something is more expensive or not also depends on how much wages go up over time.

Don't believe me? The following NPR article explains that the REAL price of commodities often decrease over time.

www.npr.org/blogs/money/2014/01/08/260761433/episode-508-a-bet-on-the-future-of-humanity
  • 2 0
 You forget that Pinkbike gets payment for everyone's opinion its called market research
  • 1 4
 I do not know what incentives Pinkbike faces, but that is no excuse for posting BS economics that kids are actually going to read.
  • 4 0
 I love the fact that a piece on NPR means you now understand economics. I was going to write you a long, detailed reply on why you are wrong, but it's sunny outside and I have a bicycle to ride.
  • 2 1
 It is raining here and I have already finished my trail work for the day so I am willing to debate you.

Lets here your best explanation of why an increase in nominal prices always means stuff is more expensive in real terms.

The NPR article is not proof that I understand econ it is a direct and easily accessible piece of evidence against your claim that commodity prices always increase over long period of time.

Don't attack me (you have no idea what my credentials are) attack my argument.
  • 1 0
 Mr. Wragg makes some great points and I would go one step further.
stuffchristhinksabout.wordpress.com/2014/03/01/stop-pushing-sales-and-build-brand-equity
  • 1 0
 if everything is going to go up in price, raw material, diesel, wages etc, that means my wages are also gonna go up right. Matt ?
so then there is no problem right . Matt ?
  • 1 0
 Wages are going up more in some areas than others. For example, the guy in Indonesia might get better wages, but his competitors in Europe will get less. So no, Crag. You are lucky to be German so far, but things don't look good going forward.
  • 4 1
 yt industries, new designs, new bikes, new components. lower prices
  • 2 9
flag SpamHill (Feb 28, 2014 at 2:33) (Below Threshold)
 No one dreams of owning a YT though do they?
  • 2 0
 I stand corrected
  • 1 0
 You obviously havent seen their new models, spam
  • 3 0
 Yt capra......
  • 2 0
 tues 2.0...
  • 1 0
 Most of my purchasing savings have been after they bring out new kit and the previous years stuff goes on sale. Losing this cycle would keep prices consistently high.
  • 2 0
 Update model's when there's a meaningful design change not just because a new model is due.
  • 1 0
 Most of the good companies already have ditched the yearly product model. Santa Cruz, Ventana, and Ibis have been doing this for quite some time.
  • 1 2
 My biggest beef is how much the re-sale drops in a model year. I mean, I had a 5 year old $5k Trance in great condition (with fresh components) I couldn't give away when I replaced it with another $4,200 Trance. It sucks... but how do we keep the re-sale values dropping like a used Chevrolet???
  • 2 0
 Sell every year not 5 years that how. A five year old bike is clapped.
  • 1 0
 No Way! I want to buy a bike that is a few years "older" for a way cheaper price Wink
  • 2 0
 1st choice poll : there is a nice package of "sheep"! Smile
  • 1 0
 You can also buy a used f-350 turbo diesel for 10k, but we wouldn't want to mention that.
  • 1 0
 This is pretty much how Ibis Cycles work, no model years, they just build the best bikes possible.
  • 2 1
 Seems silly to write an article like this and not adjust prices for inflation
  • 2 0
 Can't wait to see the 2015 models next month at Monterey.
  • 1 0
 "those bikes have to be transported from you to the factory" no, no I dont think so !
  • 2 0
 big old cup of who gives a fuck
  • 2 0
 My 6 year old Sunday is anything but outdated!!!
  • 1 0
 Bikes are competition wepons that why they changes evry year.
  • 1 0
 I think the bike industry needs to move to a 3 month product cycle.
  • 2 0
 CAPITALISM!!!!!
  • 5 0
 Amen Brother! I hate inflation, except for when I need to inflate the tires in a new bike!
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