Round Up: 30 DH World Cup Cockpit Setups Past & Present

 Fully anticipated a debate about 785 vs 780 bars and then I read this. Bummer.

 100%, a new bar won’t make us mortals faster. I do love my vibrocore bars for comfort though, I genuinely feel less vibration, better than my joystick carbon ones even.

 Except loic, every piece of that bike is optimized and unique, low offset fork, slack af at 62 degrees, 55mm stem, offset bb to lengthen chainstays and a medium frame giving a short front center vs rear. Its quite a diff front end setup, puts lots of weight on the front contact patch from a neutral stance.

 @game: where did you see he has an Offset BB? I saw his bike check during the first lock down and don’t remember it being there then.

 @DH1977: he normally runs one, but he stopped when ue started running dub cranks (you can't with dub)

 This is something I’d like to know (and also how many of those companies with 35mm bars have designed them to feel the same as their 31.8mm bars?

 @CustardCountry: yeah so this is what I don’t get what is the point of a 35mm diameter when they apparently feel the same as a 31.8mm they just weigh more and don’t look as sleek hardly anyone ever snaps bars anyway so I don’t see the point.

 @Ooofff: bars stil go boom.
Side note Isak is running a 0° Offset stem full motod out

 +1 Also want to know this

 @Ooofff: they actually weigh less (generally)

 Probably due to his moto connection, or he uses an axe.

 Maybe the handgrips have 1mm bottom thickness and he is very finicky about the final measure
I run 790 but i had to cut my handlebar at 786...
Jokes apart I would like to know if these numbers are referred to the final measure or just the handlebar itself

 Both on the shorter side, their wingspan is probably less than Amaury’s!

 Bruni was running narrower bars for a while too and then went back to wider bars. I'm guessing the top teams/riders do windtunnel testing and bar width probably has a big effect, which is likely why we see XC riders stick to very narrow bars, but in DH there is more of a balance between control and aero as to what is most effective in gaining seconds.

 @dthomp325: Narrow bars in XC also help you wiggle through a group of other riders. You get more tree clearance and you save a few grams too.

 @MaplePanda: Plus XC riders need longer stems to drop the bar height, especially with shorter riders on 29ers, and bar width needs to compensate, but I bet aero testing plays into more decisions than you might expect.

 When I (Cy) did a bunch of testing with different bar heights and widths a couple of years ago, range of movement was a big factor in width and height choice. Long, slack bikes in particular favour a lot of angle on them to get them to corner well, and Troy and Danny both get a lot of angle on their bikes when they corner. What I found was that even at 6ft 3in, really wide (800mm plus measured across the ends of the grips, so about +10-15mm on the bar itself) if the bar was a little low, I ran out of reach to get the end of the inside grip low enough when getting a lot of angle on the bike. My arm would fully extend, then over weight the inside grip and I would steer out of the corner! Can be helped with higher bars so you don't run out of arm extension when leaning the bike over, but only up to a point, and shorter guys will need lower bars naturally, and will have shorter arms, so will need narrower bars simply to be able to reach the inside grip without locking out their elbow at the insane lean angles they get to.

 @cotic-bikes: That's interesting and it could explain why Rachel (Atherton) uses a relatively wide bar. Maybe she doesn't lean the bike as much as males (?) I've read an article about bar width and mtb biomechanics some time ago but It did't answer why some riders having the same height run different bar width.
www.pinkbike.com/news/handlebar-width-vs-handling-are-your-bars-too-wide.html

 I've ran 60mm on Enduro bikes ever since Rat Boy did a bike check video with his V10. Not because I'm a following fan boy, it just makes sense.

 Went from 45mm stock to 35 and back to 50 now on my Meta. Bike feels a bit less twitchy but not harder to steer at all, if anything I found it easier. From what I can recall a lot of the pros still run a tad longer stem, Jared Graves had a pro tip Tuesday on instagram about it.

 Due to the lower head angle, a longer stem can be used without compromising the attack position.

 I go with comfort but I do wonder if wheel size makes a difference.
I just got rid of a 27.5” bike with a 50mm stem and 780 bars which felt good. Replaced it with a 29’er with a big wheel set, 35mm stem and 800 bars. That feels awesome and a lot more in control. I am 6’1 so a bigger guy and I feel I can muscle the bike about in the same way I can my old bike. A smaller set up may make this harder. The one thing I dont like is the 35mm clamp. The bar feels stiff but equally stiff vibe wise. Swap out the bar first.
You cant really look at a pro set up and go with that as often they are height, build, riding style, riding location, etc suited.

 @ilovedust: it could be the fork offset, a lot of brands are designing around a 44/42 (depending on fork brand) offset now for 29" which gives a trail measurement which results in a more stable experience in the steering department. I can't remember full ins and outs, it's proper geometry geekery, but look it up and you'll see what I mean. Plus 29ers are just more stable anyway, I'm a convert!

 @ilovedust: I promise it has nothing to do with the stem

 I don’t want a bike without the shortest rental 31mm stem

 @sargey2003: that is actually true, don't get the downvotes. A lot of pros just can't run something else

 @ilovedust: 29" forks tipically have more offset, and every extra mm of offset can (and should, according to some) be accompanied by a corresponding increase in stem length. There is namely the theory that stem length should be the same as wheel offset length, but naturally bar backsweep eliminates this theorethical alignment.

 @DavidGuerra: Why do they still use ~ 50 mm offset on 29" dual crowns anyway? Pretty much all 29" enduro/trail forks have 44 mm offset, yet DH world sticks to slightly longer offsets.

 @Flinty: It does give more of an attack position, but yes I think a shorter offset would be better. And even 44mm, isn't it longer than what's available in 27.5" forks? That's also what I meant in my comment, 44mm is becoming pretty common for 29" enduro bikes.

 Cracking dick patter

 I never disclose proprietary information like my bar width and tire pressure. Nice try, you almost got me.

 www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwXD0hCvtX4

 @Neale78: well yes, but actually no

 I was thinking that. Wonder if it's more to do with how hench the rider is? If you're strong, you can still control the bike with smaller bars, plus get faster turning and tree clearance. Lighter or less strong riders can use wider bars to help out.

 Nah you're wrong about adding spacers under the stem doing the same increasing bar rise. Because the head tube and steerer are angled, putting spacers under the stem does not have the exact same effect as increasing bar rise. Adding spacers under the stem raises the bar height but it also shortens the reach of the bike due to the head tube being angled. Even tho the difference with just one 10mm spacer would be small it still has an unintended effect on reach.

 spacers reduce the reach

 snap!

 @carbonsinglespeed: but really, to have full information, you need to know it all - HT length, spacers, stem lenght and height and the bars. Missing one of parameters you get up to 2cm of unknown delta in all directions

 @Sirflyingv: Exactly, that's why these articles are quite meaningless – but hey, a pro is running this and that, so some of their fans will run that setup just for the sake of it.

 Bar roll has all kind of effects over what’s mentioned here. You can throw your up and sweep sweep figures out right away, which can lead to things feeling very odd

 Sweep sweep? Know idea wtf that is, try back sweep instead

 Spacers reduce the reach but they increase the distance from the BB to the grips, which is a more determining factor regarding bike fit. Bar rise is neutral regarding reach (if you don't "mess" with the tilt, that is), but it increases the RAD (rider area distance, the aforementioned BB-grips distance) and it's also equivalent to an increase in stem length, so the attack angle becomes less aggressive. One can also increase stem lenght when adding spacers to maintain reach, but reach isn't really an important factor. You want to consider your optimal RAD. If you decrease the stem length you will want to add spacers if you want to maintain RAD. If you increase the bar rise you will need to either remove spacers or decrease stem lenght to maintain RAD. And these are all things to keep in mind, but we're not bound to anything, not to a RAD, reach, stem length, bar rise, etc. Bar backsweep also has a great influence on the riding position, as different backsweeps can be equivalent to a difference of 10mm or more in stem length. And with the higher rise bars, just tilt adjustments can also be equivalent to a 10-20mm difference in stem length.

 To put it differently, let's say you add a few spacers beneath the stem. If you want to maintain the former RAD, you will need a shorter stem. If you want to maintain the reach, you will need a longer stem. If you want to maintain the steering offset (the distance between the line from one grip to another and the center of the steering axis) you will just have to get used to the greater RAD and smaller reach. Increasing the rise of the handlebar is just a different way to mess with these factors.

 And I would also introduce a different topic with this, which is the psychological one. There is a strange psychological difference between riding with different setups in which the position of the hands is exactly the same. I know it because I have experienced it. I mean, maybe a higher rise bar does behave differently, maybe it does flex more, because the higher the rise the longer the bar is (or was, before it got bent) for a certain effective width. But having a smaller stem for example, might make you feel that the direction is more twitchy, than if you rode a longer stem with a bar with more backweep, that positions your hands in the exact same place. Or a bar with more rise might make you feel more confident than another with less rise that is on a longer stem with an extra spacer, and which positions your hands in the exact same place, just because of the visual element and thinking that a shorter stem and a higher rise bar gives you more of an attack position.

 Higher rise bars of a given model tend to have more flex, giving a more compliant feeling over lower rise bars of the same type, so it can make a difference vs stem height even if the absolute position is the same.

 I read somewhere that Sam Hill uses bb to grip position as his primary critical set up point.

 IIRC when I did the math, with a 65 degree head angle that every 5mm spacer decreased reach by about 2mm. To the original point, how much rise you need is directly related to stack height and will be different on any bike.

 @mashrv1: if you have know idea about sweep sweep does that mean you know about sweep sweep? Get it right yourself if you want to grammar police others...

 @SPKeen: nice try, I grammar policed myself, and still failed. But thanks for white-knighting for me....against me

 @mb23: I know its kinda game with words and meanings but ...
raising the stem does not shorten the reach. Reach is fixed number by geometry of frame and fork.
Adding spacers can be compensated by longer stem, less of backsweep and narrower bars. those 4 numbers make a final number. Only way to change reach is by offseting fork, e.g. with angleset

 Bar height would be more interesting.

 It is probably designed to mimic an MX bike

 Isn't a super short stem supposed to give deader steering?

 This

 Worldcup DH tracks are pretty wide so there are less chances of hitting a tree with your handlebar.

 Bigger, heavier bikes on faster tracks. Probably looking for the most leverage they can get.

 I had a Homegrown in Bass Boat Green... It looked amazing

 Maybe they meant upsweep. Seems weird though

 shoulder width

 The only practical advice i've heard is to go into your natural/comfortable press-up position and measure the distance between your hands (might need an extra pair of hands for that).

I suppose it makes sense as the correct positioning of your hands in a press-up optimises the use of strength and range of movement from your arms and max comfort of load-bearing through the shoulders. And it mimics riding in attack postion pretty well.

The other option i suppose is buying a cheap 800mm bar and cutting it down in 10mm increments after each test ride until you hit the sweet spot or you go past it and it now feels too narrow. Then get a nice set of bars in your preferred width (or cut them to your preferred width).

 She's very kind.

 She told me the opposite.

 Same as her mom..