Banshee Legend MKII Review

Jun 24, 2013
by Mike Kazimer  
TESTED
Banshee Legend
MKII
BY Mike Kazimer

Banshee's Legend MKII frame is intended to be a no-holds-barred downhill race machine, a bike designed with the input from a fleet of hard-charging test riders. Their feedback was used to make decisions about the final production version of the frame, and since its initial release, the Legend has earned its stripes on race tracks and bike parks around the world. Late last season, Banshee and Cane Creek held test sessions at the Whistler Bike Park to determine if the Double Barrel Air rear shock would be a suitable match for the Legend. Testing was successful, and riders can now purchase a DBair equipped Legend MKII frame for $3199. We took our test sled on numerous shuttle runs as well as countless early season laps at Whistler to see how the Legend and the DBair got along.


Banshee Legend MKII Details

• Intended use: downhill
• Rear wheel travel: 203mm / 8"
• 7005 series aluminum frame
• 1.5" head tube
• ISCG-05 chain guide tabs
• Internally ribbed seat and chain stays
• Weight: 39lbs (as tested), 8.59lb (frame, claimed)
• Colors: anodized black, raw, fluorescent yellow
• MSRP: $3199.99 USD (frame only, w/ DBair shock as tested)

photo
  The Legend MKII is designed to be stiff and strong, with a 1.5 inch head tube, 12x150mm thru-axle and internally braced seat and chain stays to help it achieve this goal.

Frame Details
The Legend MKII is constructed from hydroformed 7005 aluminum, with the rear shock surrounded by an impressively stout-looking forged section, an area Banshee calls the 'canoe.' A 1.5” head tube allows for the use of an AngleSet, giving riders more options if they decide to deviate from the stock 63.8 degree head angle. At the rear of the bike, a bolt on 12x150 thru-axle keeps the rear wheel secure and adds additional stiffness. The Legend uses sealed cartridge bearings at all pivot locations, and to save weight without sacrificing strength, titanium pivot hardware is used throughout the frame. As would be expected, ISCG 05 tabs are in place around the 83mm threaded bottom bracket shell. Cable routing is clean and simple, running along the top of the down tube and then on top of each side of the seat stays.

photo
  The rear shock rests inside a forged 'canoe,' and is mounted directly to the lower link of the twin link suspension design.

Suspension Design
The Legend uses a twin link four-bar suspension design that Banshee calls VF4B (virtual floating four bar) a design that allows for a solid rear triangle to be used, further increasing frame stiffness. Similar to other virtual pivot designs, the VF4B is designed to be minimally affected by pedaling forces while remaining supple and active even during heavy braking. The Legend's suspension layout has an initially rearward axle path, the intent of which is to allow for better square edge bump absorption. There are numerous twin link suspension designs that mount the rear shock to the upper linkage, but the Legend goes a slightly different route, with the rear shock mounted directly to the lower link. The most significant advantage of this is the lower center of gravity – the shock sits as low as possible in the frame, which should aid in the overall stability and cornering characteristics of the bike.


Components
Downhill riders, especially racers, can be a fickle bunch, a fact Banshee addresses by not offering complete build kits for the Legend. The Legend MKII is only available as a frame, allowing riders to choose the build kit of their dreams. Banshee had our test sled built up with a heavy dose of Canadian pride, which makes sense given the company's "Born on the Shore" motto. Whistler-based Chromag took care of the bars and direct mount stem, and the cranks, grips, seat and seatpost were all handled by products from Race Face's lineup. A coil-sprung Fox 40 RC2 handled the suspension duties up front, while the previously mentioned Cane Creek Double Barrel Air took care of the rear.


Specifications
Release Date 2013
Price
Travel 8" (203mm)
Rear Shock Cane Creek Double Barrel Air
Fork Fox 40 RC2
Headset FSA
Crankarms Race Face Atlas
Chainguide Truvativ XO
Bottom Bracket Race Face
Rear Derailleur X9
Shifter Pods X9
Handlebar Chromag Fubar OSX
Stem Chromag Director
Grips Race Face Lock On
Brakes Avid XO Trail
Wheelset Sun Ringle A.D.D.
Tires Maxxis Minion (f) High Roller II (r)
Seat Race Face Atlas
Seatpost Banshee
Banshee Legend



Riding the
Legend MKII


bigquotesIt's like a battleship blasting through stormy seas - the Legend maintains its forward momentum no matter how big the waves.


Descending
Solid. That's the feeling the Legend conveys, a feeling that translates into excellent stability at high speeds on the most chopped up of trails. As long as you can hold on, the Legend will stick to its line. Our test bike came equipped with a Fox 40, which certainly helps contribute to this equation, but the solid rear triangle and stout forged portions around the bottom bracket area certainly deserve credit for creating this feeling of stiffness as well. It's like a battleship blasting through stormy seas - the Legend maintains its forward momentum no matter how big the waves. While going flat-out is the Legend's preferred operating speed, on tighter, more technical trails it was still quite manageable.

The Legend is most at home on steep,
technical terrain, the gnarlier the better.

A take-charge riding style is definitely necessary in order to take full advantage of the Legend's capabilities - become complacent and the Legend can become a bit unwieldy. That being said, while it does take more effort to get it around tight corners, riders with an aggressive riding style shouldn't have much trouble getting the back end to go where they want it. Cornering on the Legend is like being on a pair of race stock GS skis – it responds best at high speeds, and can be pushed incredibly hard into corners without breaking loose. While some downhill bikes have a more playful, carvey feel, the Legend is all business, a rock solid platform for smashing into berms and rocketing out the other side. Jumps and drops were dispatched without trouble, and while we certainly used all the travel, we never felt any harsh bottoming out, even off of large drops into not-so-steep landings.

Suspension Performance
We stayed fairly close to the settings recommended by Banshee and Cane Creek for the Double Barrel Air, with the only changes being a little less high speed rebound (HSR) for a more lively feel. 35mm of sag is recommended, which we found to be fine for more natural trails, but ended up running slightly more air pressure for our laps at Whistler due to the higher speed, jump filled trails we ended up spending much of our time on. Increasing the air pressure made the bike ride higher in its travel and made it easier to pop off the lip of jumps. The shock's initial stroke didn't feel quite as supple on smaller obstacles, say an extended section of roots running perpendicular to the trail, but this wasn't a detriment, just a different feel when compared to a coil shock. The performance was flawless even on high speed, rough laps in the bike park, with the DBair consistently sucking up everything in its path for the duration of each run. We'd gladly run this shock instead of a coil shock, especially when factoring in the considerable weight savings it provides.

When pedalling on flat ground there was a noticeable amount of suspension movement, especially when standing. Each pedal stroke drove the shock well into its travel, creating a bobbing feeling - you certainly wouldn't even want to attempt to pedal this bike to the top of a run. But, as long as the slope pointed downhill there wasn't any trouble, and the bobbing sensation went away, even when pedalling out of the saddle. This is likely due to body position and weight distribution - the Legend pedals better with the rider's weight biased to the rear of the bike, which makes sense given that it's intended to be a pure downhill machine. The only other slight quibble we had was that getting a shock pump onto the DBair was a little tricky - our hands weren't quite small enough to sneak between the frame and the shock to thread the pump head on. It was quicker to undo the top shock bolt in order to tip the shock back and make accessing the valve easier.

Photo credit Jed Sims


Component Report

• A Maxxis Minion DHF in the front and a Maxxis Highroller II in the rear were apt choices for the terrain we took the Legend on. Even on wet, slimy rock races and off-camber roots the tires had enough grip to stay on course. The Highroller II isn't the fastest rolling tire, but it earns its keep by providing excellent traction and control on steep, loose terrain.

• The Fox 40 RC2 is a big bruiser of a fork, happily plowing through rock gardens at full race pace. Once we had the compression, rebound, and preload set to our liking we didn't need to touch the fork for the remainder of the test.

• The non-clutch equipped SRAM X9 rear derailleur emerged with a few battle scars, but still shifted perfectly. The Truvativ chainguide helped reduce chainslap, but a Type II derailleur would have been nice to make the bike even quieter.


Pinkbike's Take:
bigquotesAlthough carbon fiber seems to be the latest wonder material of choice for many downhill racers, aluminum hasn't gone by the way side. Need proof? Take a look at the results from the last two World Cup races - aluminum bikes are still making their way into the top positions. Reduced frame weight is one of the reasons carbon fiber's popularity is increasing on the race circuit, but while our complete Legend weighed in at 39 pounds, it wouldn't be hard to shave a couple pounds off with a different build kit, putting it at a very competitive fighting weight. The Legend is a bike that can take a beating and keep on going strong, making it a good choice for riders who plan on spending all summer charging around at bike parks and on race courses. Riders with a bat-out-of-hell riding style and an eye towards durability may find that the Legend MKII is right up their alley. - Mike Kazimer

www.bansheebikes.com

Author Info:
mikekazimer avatar

Member since Feb 1, 2009
1,710 articles

185 Comments
  • 173 2
 Good to read a review on something with eight inches again, as much as I liked the trail and am bikes
  • 63 166
flag benstrain123 (Jun 24, 2013 at 2:54) (Below Threshold)
 eight inches in my rear, no homo
  • 8 0
 Awesome review. Ive wanted a Legend for a while and this may just tip the scale. Also, anybody know what knee pads the rider is wearing?
  • 6 2
 ive got one Smile !
  • 5 0
 @joeholllindrake The pads are the industries Maxi guards store.the-industries.com/c/protection_maxi-guards
  • 18 2
 I really want to read a review on the Polygon Collosus dhx, i cant find a proper review anywhere. C'mon pinkbike, you know you want to!
  • 16 1
 Maxi guards...Maxi pads?
  • 6 0
 Yes... Maxi pads.
  • 3 0
 been riding 2 megavalanches on it.. this bike rocks ! even with some pedaling to do . tup
one bike.. i will never part with i think.. Cool
  • 2 0
 Kavla!
  • 114 1
 With the DB Air on it, shouldn't it be called the "Legend Airy"?
  • 30 2
 Bazinga !
  • 3 2
 Bahahahaha!
  • 42 2
 looks like a... well nothing really, nice to see an original looking design instead of the trek and specialized linkage, bit late to review the bike though
  • 7 52
flag Arikger (Jun 24, 2013 at 4:43) (Below Threshold)
 Same linkage design as Canfield Brothers Jedi, nothing original here.
  • 11 2
 Very Canfield-like, but without the idler.
  • 5 1
 @Arikger
the Canfields axlepath and leverage ratio is quite different, but jep both use a vpp linkage
  • 3 1
 The Canoe reminds me of the forged area on my '05 Demo 8, as does the rear triangle, but no complaints, I always loved the way that bike looked. Also, the Demo isn't a one piece rear, obviously.
  • 4 1
 its a bitch to take it in a and out tho same with demos
  • 11 16
flag Willie1 (Jun 24, 2013 at 7:43) (Below Threshold)
 The Canfield and Banshee are made in the same factory. Its not surprising they have similarities.
  • 6 1
 @Styleroyal. Neither the Canfield or the Banshee use a VPP linkage. Santa Cruze and Intense VPP links rotate in opposite direction (one goes clockwise and the other counter-clockwise). Canfield, Banshee and Giant linkages rotate in the same direction.
  • 6 0
 @alexsin
still every four bar design does have a virtual pivot, which both designs are. I do not want to say the same system like SC but still a virtual pivot design.
  • 7 5
 Canfield and Banshee ARE made in the same factory. Why the neghatives???????
  • 11 0
 because both companies do not have anything to do with each other except for being welded by pacific cycles. Two companies, two designers...
  • 7 0
 Because there is no logic to your statement. Pacific bikes also welds Santa Cruz, Felt, and Giant. Just because the bikes are from the same factory does not mean they are related in any way in design.
  • 7 4
 The factories that produce for many brands have a catalog of fittings, tube profiles, and hardware. It is highly probable that some of the components are shared across brands. It is much more economical to work with parts that already have the tooling made, than a small run of custom order parts and the associated tooling. The canfield and banshee are quite similar in design. I haven't looked closely enough to see how similar, but they are both short link 4-bar suspension. The designers can pick whatever leverage rates and wheel paths they so desire. Have you guys ever looked closely at two different bikes made in the same factory? Its quite an eye opener when you put them side by side. The manufacturers are not custom designing every fitting. Have a look through the catalog at Paragon Machine Works. You will be surprised how many manufacturer's claim to design parts that are obviously purchased off the shelf. Paragon is a tiny player compared to the big factories.
  • 4 0
 p-dub-4: actually Giant do their own stuff, Giant are massive and do production for other brands similar to Pacific.

IIRC they may even be the ones who do trek's carbon.
  • 3 0
 I believe Trek carbon, aka OCLV, is done in Waterloo, WI.

RE: the legend, the linkage, with two relatively short links connecting front and rear triangles, with the lower link driving the shock is similar to a SC V10, no?
Check that - upon further review, the difference is then the SC upper link is counter-rotating.
  • 3 0
 I believe It's only the $10k+ madones that are still made there.
  • 5 0
 Wilie1. With the exception of maybe a head-tube or a BB shell which have become fairly standard parts, all the tubes and linkage plates a proprietary to Banshee, the "canoe" is a very expensive thing to make, but worth it to keep the low CG on the bike.

p-dub-4 The Pacific Cycle that you speak of is different than the smaller Pacific Cycles (Taiwan) that makes Banshee, Canfield, Niner and other small brands. Confusing, the large Pacific Cycle is a division of Dorel Industries, who owns Schwinn, GT, Mongoose, Cannondale, IronHorse, Sugoi and a bunch of other brand names.
  • 2 0
 @Willie1 Can name a few parts from the catalogue that are used on the Jedi for me?
  • 2 0
 Tonestar knows his shit. His confusing manufacturer naming shit.
  • 6 0
 Other than a few standard bolts for ease of replacing if ever lost, everything on the banshee is custom made for the bike (nothing shared with Canfield). Banshee is FAR from a catalogue brand, it is a very small company that is working hard to produce frames that out perform all the competition while offering a greater level of customer service than the big corporate brands are able to do.
  • 2 4
 I never said they are a catalog brand. Manufacturers have a huge selection of tube shapes and profiles that they choose from. If you look through the astro catalog (not the same as the pacific catalog- Pacific's isn't online AFAIK), you will see the top tube and chainstays from several popular brands. I make custom frames, and can use the same fittings- such as cable stops, dropouts, bridges, BB shells, HTs, brake mounts etc. Designing a bicycle isn't what most people think it is. Each manufacturer can choose their geometry, and profiles. There was a Banshee clone under a different brand name at the Tapei show this year. Basically all bicycles are catalog nowadays. They don't just pick a model out of the catalog, but they pick the tubes, fittings, and apply them to the software they are using, tweak geometry, and the factory builds it.

The TR450, the Da Bomb Tsar Bomba, and the newest Airborn DH bike are examples of this process. The basic layout is the same, with different spec on the geo, and tube profiles. I find it interesting for all the negatives Da Bomb gets here, they are the house brand of the factory that makes the transition, which is well liked. The Da Bomb is a showcase of their profiling capabilites.
  • 2 0
 @ mountainbikematt, I do not have access to that catalog. You can find many tube profiles in many catalogs if you look though. For small end users, look at Nova, Ceeway, Paragon. If I can get many of the common profiles, so can the factories Smile . They are all coming from the same places. Look how many frame makers advertise Reynolds, Easton, Columbus, Tange etc. I don't know who Canfield gets their tubing from, but it is not something they smelt themselves and custon hydroform. They order it to their spec like everyone else does. The manufacturers want to perpetuate the myths that they are somehow superior to the catalog factories, when in fact they are just a higher price point in customization of the same products.
  • 2 0
 @Willie1
the banshee designer responded to you btw. keith wrote his master thesis about his linkage vf4b, get your facts.
the clone at taipe cycle show was a copy like the macmahone proto at eurobike which was a copy of a commencal supreme v3.

I had a transition tr450 prior to the legend, the guys at transition worked out their kinematics aswell or why do you think did it take them more than 2 years from seeing the first prototypes to get them on the market?

What you say about layouts is wrong, it just showes how audacious companies are by stealing designs which are good working...
  • 4 3
 Styleroyal: I have been riding and following mountain bike development since 1992. I have seen numerous inaccurate claims over and over. I am aware that the banshee designer responded. I also know that the vf4b is a refinement of already existing designs. I don't doubt that Keith did his masters on it, but it doesn't change the fact that it is a variation of several similar short link designs. The vf4b is also known to have excessive pedal kickback in small chainrings- ie. less than 24 teeth. I owned a Rune for several years. It was a good bike. I also have a spitfire. Piss poor customer service though. I will never buy from them again. I missed an entire riding season due to a warranty replacement they could not coordinate. I was lied to several times with reports that my replacement frame was shipped, but when I asked for tracking numbers, the excuses started flying. In the end I received a replacement frame in a different model, and the frame was missing the shock. I gave up. I just bought a shock, and went on with my business. The manufacturers bend the truth to make you believe they are designing everything. That simply doesn't happen anymore. Maybe with a Foes, but otherwise no way. Transition did refine the catalog design. No dispute there. Read my earlier posts. I mention the designers can tune axle path and leverage ratio however they want. To believe they designed everything from the ground up is naieve. They refined a template that already existed.
  • 6 0
 Just for the record, I designed all banshee hydroformed tubes from scratch as I didn't find anything like what I wanted from any hydroform tube suppliers (most are very poorly thought out). So no... I don't just pick tubes and lay them out, I created custom tube profiles for the loads and we pay for the tooling ourselves because we feel that it is worth making something right. I also designed every forging pivot axle etc etc from scratch, the only exceptions are bolts and bearings.
  • 2 1
 Is that why the links on the older Rune and Spitfire look like they were machined out of flat stock, or cut on a waterjet? That would be an economical way of producing "custom links." I may be wrong about the butting and profiling of your tubes. the shapes are pretty basic, so I thought you were using off the shelf tubing, like you guys did with the Morphine and Scream (Easton RAD.) I am curious why a North Shore company designed the Rune with such little room in the rear triangle in the first generation, and was there not testing to show the problems with pedalling in the small chainring? Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the bike, but some things seemed a little under developed. (I paid for a second generation rune, at full price, and was given a 1st generation. My dropper post, and tires wouldn't fit Frown ) Are you saying all of the tubing manufacturers around the world are incapable of designing well thought out tubing? It seems odd to me that they get it wrong all of the time.
  • 2 0
 @Willie1
You cannot reinvent the wheel Wink Which of the suspension designs is something completely new nowadays?
Honestly, you seem to be biased and not in favour of Banshee, I do not have a problem with that. Foes designs are equally to transition single pivot designs, I do not see a difference here... And what you say about axle paths is not correct. Every design does have specific movement such as a single pivot which rotates on a circular path. And the fact that Virtual Pivot designs (short link ones) do have pedal feedback on small rings does not only apply for Banshee...

Don´t get me wrong, I like Foes, I like Transition, I like Banshee. All of these brands do have soul and the people behind those brands do love to ride bikes. And in my case I made good experiences with their customer service.

But might it be possible that you try to bad mouth Banshee due to your bad experiences?
  • 2 0
 Stereoroyal, of course axle path is limited to the suspension design, but there is a certain amount of variance.

Did I not say I liked the Rune? I liked the Spitfire too. My comments are related to manufacturing in the modern era. Many manufacturers "claim' many things, but once investigated, the reality comes out. I don't think I'm badmouthing anyone. The original rune had a few flaws, the second version improved on some of them, and the new version looks pretty damn good. I was a loyal banshee customer previously, owning three banshee's prior to the Rune. Didn't matter to them. Customer service is what it is. Banshee chose to handle the situation the way they did, and its just reality. If they were just honest and said they made a mistake, or had a problem with the production run, so be it. Instead they chose to lie to me saying the frame was shipped, when it wasn't. They didn't even have one to ship. What did they offer in compensation for missing a whole season? The opportunity to PURCHASE another Banshee at employee pricing. They should have sent me a frame for free. I didn't mention this in any of my previous posts until builttoride claimed the customer service was superior. I had a previous run in with a paid for frame that was never delivered as well. The LBS reluctantly took care of that though.
  • 2 0
 Was it banshee or the distributor you dealt with? If it was me at Banshee directly frm the start I can say hand on heart that none of this would have been an issue. I am very sorry that you had this problem in the past, we have improved many things over the years since I joined the company, and customer service is a top priority for us.
  • 2 0
 It was banshee directly. I had no luck with the distributor, who claimed the 30mm seat tube was the "new design" tp accommodate the dropper posts (didn't make sense to me- the 30.9 was for the droppers. He claimed it was so the 27.2mm posts could be shimmed. I went straight to Banshee Customer Service, and got the run around for over a year. It was 2008-2010 when I had problems with the two orders.
  • 2 1
 Its fairly obvious you're now strictly biased against Banshee, and that really does suck because they do have a fantastic product. Keith has spent a LOT of time with PMs and emails back and forth with me helping me get this and that figured out with both my Rune and my first Legend. I got my MKII and haven't had to email anyone! Proof that they didn't just pump out a cookie cutter product and turn it loose to the public. They refined it and perfected it and its a beast. Its just so obvious that they really did listen to the riders on the first gens and used their feedback. Keith, the time you took to help me out with my MKI brought me back to Banshee. Thanks and great job!
  • 1 2
 My comments on the customer service are strictly separate from the product. I would have bought a Legend if I didn't get so screwed over in the past. I think they have a great series of bikes, but I cannot support a company that costs me a season, and does NOTHING to fix the problem. In fact they made it worse by lying about what they were doing. Its really the lying about the problems that is the biggest issue. I understand when there is no stock, or the factory does not deliver on its deadline. Banshee couldn't fix that. They could have sent the frame when ready and refunded the price for the hassle, or offered a build kit. Hell sending a used demo model would have been a better option than lying. I would have remained a customer for life with a little TLC.
  • 1 0
 This is great stuff you guys, great read.

From a 3rd party perspective, I don't feel Willie1 is negative about Banshee's bikes, just about their customer service. It is very interesting to walk round the Taipei show and see what he talks about, but I never know which came first - the name brand designs or the house brand designs.

I don't see it as negative at all, it's just the process of manufacturing. The only thing that I find quite strange is that by looking at frames, you can see the varying level of tech that goes into different brands. For instance, if you put an aluminium Demo and a Transition TR250 side by side, as I did when I was about to buy a TR250 two years ago, the difference in finish quality is staggering. The transition looks like it was cobbled together for someone's university project in comaprison to the highly polished Demo. That's all fine, until you look at the price tags.

Which brings me to my point. I think a lot of smaller companies are very lucky about, or skillful in their exploitation of, the stigma attached to big brands. I personally would never pay $3000 for a frame from one of the boutique brands, when I could have a Wilson or V10 that looks like a work of art for pretty much the same price. I know those two are small brands too, but take a look at Giant, Trek or Spesh and you see a much more polished product than a small brand bike. There is definitely a place for the smaller brands in the marketplace, but for me they should be priced according to the tech used in manufacture, and they aren't. A TR450 is not in the same league as a Wilson or Demo in my opinion. They should be $1800 for a frame, not $2800.

"Rider owned for life" - who cares? I care about paying my mortgage, my kids' school fees and putting food on the table. I don't give a shit who made my bike or whose pocket the money is going in. Obviously a lot of people disagree though, or I fear a lot of small but expensive bike firms would cease to be.
  • 1 0
 P.S. What is "Mythic"? I was tossing out a few old mags today and I found an advert for a Mythic Legend 2, which is obviously a Banshee Legend 2. Did they change their name in 2010 or thereabouts?
  • 2 0
 mythic is banshee uk
  • 11 0
 "While some downhill bikes have a more playful, carvey feel, the Legend is all business, a rock solid platform for smashing into berms and rocketing out the other side."
It sounds like a bike Gwinner should be riding
  • 2 0
 Weight balance is conventional. 20-30mm is a big difference in BB placement compared to the Demo.
  • 2 0
 and a 23mm longer cs
  • 2 0
 30mm in bb placement? Demo in lowest position is 330 legend is 348mm. That's 18mm.
  • 2 1
 The Demo's BB is 20-30mm rearward compared to other designs.
  • 1 0
 Why the neg props? Look it up if you don't agree. Its not my fault Spesh makes bikes based on marketing, and not performance.
  • 1 0
 Wait what? The bb is rearward? That sentence makes no sense. Axle path may be rearward. Did you mean their chainstay is shorter?

ps. I didn't neg rep you.
  • 1 0
 The placement of the BB along the length of the bike from front to rear axle is 20-30mm more rearward than most other DH bikes.
  • 1 0
 That is called CHAINSTAY LENGTH. Even specialized uses it on THEIR SITE but i still don't understand how that relates to the original post.
  • 1 0
 Spaced, the BB is place along a line, between the front and rear axles (ignoring the BBdrop or rise.) If you keep the wheelbase the same, but shorten the chainstays, the length from the BB to the FA lengthens, and the BB to RA shortens. The weight distribution is more rearward. To regain the proportional balance, with short chainstays, you need to decrease FC, making the wheelbase shorter. This is the disadvantage of going too short with the chainstays.


oxxxxxxxxxxOxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxo = Trek, Da Bomb
oxxxxxxxOxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxo = Demo
oxxxxxxxOxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxo = large Demo


see the difference?


oxxxxxxxOxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxo = Wilson: has similar proportion to line 1 in weight distribution. Line 2 is too rearward, placing too much weight on the rear, and not enough on the front. Line 3 is Aaron's solution. Gives him more room, but makes the original problem worse.
  • 1 0
 Than use commonly used phrases like weight distribution and chainstays. Not rearward BB. I know what you are talking about but I still don't know how it relates to the first post of ""While some downhill bikes have a more playful, carvey feel, the Legend is all business, a rock solid platform for smashing into berms and rocketing out the other side."
It sounds like a bike Gwinner should be riding"
  • 1 0
 Rearward BB is a common term for frame builders. I said "weight balance" in a previous post. It applies because the Banshee has a weight balance like the Session. I didn't use chainstays specifically because they are only 1/3 of the equation, which most people don't realize.
  • 1 0
 Then use weight distribution not BB because for example in terms of XC bikes seated weight distribution is also important and that's not only due to BB but also the seattube angle. Rearward BB is not a comon term in MTB frame builders. Haven't seen it used ONCE.
  • 1 0
 Spaced, I am a frame builder. Get over yourself.
  • 1 0
 I am talking about professional framebuilders, not local shed welders. No marketing materials, no emails with engineers mention the term. Strangley it's a term I've never heard when I worked for a large bike company (and part of what I did was translating everything for them)
  • 1 0
 I can't quite figure out why this is so important to you. Who did you work for?
  • 1 0
 Since I don't want my personal opinions to influence the company I worked for I will not tell. As why it's important - it's not. I still don't get why you posted something so unrelated to the first poster.
  • 1 2
 Maybe because you are not smart enough? Sorry, its really clear.
  • 1 0
 For a frame designer that doesn't know basic frame design terms you sure are cocky. Please explain to me how the "Sounds like Gwin should be riding this bike" relates to your "demo has a short back end in strange gibberish terms".

btw. It's my job to evaluate if stories are well written so I doubt I'm at fault here Wink
  • 1 2
 The BB location relative to the axles causes the change in feel. Its such a simple concept, anyone who took grade 6 science would understand it. BTW, I don't believe you worked in the capacity you claim to have. Your knowledge just isn't consistent with that type of job.
  • 1 0
 I haven't displayed any knowledge here. I just claimed you are using not understandable terms. Also I have already claimed that weight distribution changes feel but you forget to mention it also changes TRACTION which is way more important. Anyone who took 4th grade science would understand that Wink
  • 13 2
 Can we have a mobile version of bike reviews that doesnt involve constantly sliding side to side please.
  • 10 1
 Try clicking 'View Full Site' at the bottom of the screen - that should help.
  • 1 0
 Mike, that didn't work for me. I'm on a Nexus 10.
  • 1 0
 Kind of defeats the object of a mobile version tho. Its almost as bad as the mobile version buy n sell constantly reverting to usa/canada instead of europe even when logged in.
Shame cos otherwise its a great mobile site
  • 1 0
 Kopaczus clicking view full site works on iphone just so you know
  • 9 1
 I've got one, frame is tough as nuts and really stiff. If you land too sideways you'll be poppin spokes as there's barely any flex.
  • 11 2
 Tr450 review plz!
  • 54 2
 'Fucking sick' There you go.
  • 2 0
 www.pinkbike.com/video/301566 here's the video component of that review
  • 1 0
 tbh i own one. The bike is sick, low maintenance, ultra stiff. Eats properly rocks, geometry is spot on for fast riding. In the negative part : loads of brake jack and ain't the easiest bike to manuel or lift the front end off the ground (but i ride a large one with quite low bar, so the last point may be rejected). Also, rebound knob is hard to reach, but it ain't that important.

I love mine, won't change for a long time!
  • 1 0
 I own one aswell haha just wanted to hear pinkbikes take on them, btw my front end is easily lifted and haven't experience mucb brake jack hmmm. But ya I love my tr450 its a beaut.
  • 2 3
 Likely to crack, there you go.
  • 7 4
 Well PB great review, but that was quiet a time to review the MKII, in fact that its been out there for decades now ... maybe its because you thought the bike would just be a "legend" hahaha sorry for that. Great review and an amazing Bike in both geometry and quality ... not to mention the HUGE spec! More of such reviews please
  • 4 1
 they only test bikes that they get given to them to test.. idk about you but they just "lent" them a $6500 machine lol
  • 1 1
 threre for giving it a etter reveiw than that aurum with boxxer rc,xfusion and a bunch of other crap giving it a bad reveiw
  • 2 4
 Decades?!? Sure it's an older design, but not 20 years...
  • 3 0
 Been on the V10, Shocker, Wilson, Glory, and this bike seems seems to have the best attributes of them all. Super solid frame, rails corners, hauls a$$ through gnar, and whips/scrubs A-Line and Crabapple hits effortlessly. Definitely favors an aggressive rider. BBBBRRRRAAAPPPP!!!

www.pinkbike.com/photo/8943258
  • 2 0
 been riding this rig for the last 2 years on the shore, whistler and around BC. I think the comment about the bike rewarding an aggressive riding stance is important as that was what took me a bit of getting used. But once you've got that dialled it is a machine!
  • 2 0
 "Riders with a bat-out-of-hell riding style and an eye towards durability may find that the Legend MKII is right up their alley"

Exactly why i chose this frame 3 years ago. The faster it goes the better she feels. Still going strong, plan on not replacing it for another 2 years.
  • 2 0
 east coast rider.just my thought. the bike rocks,hands down.5-stars.i have been on other brands to name a few:giant,santa cruz,specilized,kona,e.t.c.every bike had differnt traits.but when the banshee open up it just flys.i been riding a banshee legend mk 2 for 4-years,been to whistler mtn, plattekill,mtn creek bike park,mount snow,with this bike and others those are me riding places.just to name a few places been with the bike and terrain i ride.it handles awsome,i wouldnt go back to any thing else.it just works for me.and that the truth.thank u banshee bike 'DONELLE,BANSHEE 4/LIFE.GET ONE AND U WILL AGREE.
  • 5 0
 From the pictures, mud clearance looks pretty poor.
  • 2 0
 From real life, it's not a problem. I rode the bike for a month during a flood (bridges were closed, etc etc.) and had no issues.
  • 2 1
 awesome feeling bikes, but when i had mine it dented very easily, one in the side of the top tube from the fork bumpers (very first crash) then another in the down tube i only noticed at the end of a days riding, then the final blow to the chain-stay which bent the whole swing arm. defiantly a 'softer' frame than some others, but all that said it's the ride that matters and i loved it!

p.s i break a lot of stuff Big Grin .
  • 4 0
 That is really strange. I have dented all my dh frames to hell and my 4 year old legend has only minimal dents. Way better than anything I had. Maybe you are unlucky since most people I know with legend are dent proof
  • 3 0
 That is unfortunate. The Banshee frames are made from 7000 Series Alum, which is stiffer than the 6000 stuff a lot of bigger companies use in their bikes, so it should be tougher than a lot of stuff that is out there. Sounds like you have had some crashes and some bad luck with your frame.
  • 2 2
 I have a hard time believing that when you have photo albums of 4 of your dh bikes and not one of them is a legend. If you really did do what you said then you don't have bad luck you're just a fucking hack that needs to learn to ride however I think you're full of it. Ya I got pissy in this post but its because every legend I've seen is bomb proof. My bike included......and I'm not easy on it.
  • 1 0
 Chill dude! It's an opinion - user generated feedback, good or bad is one of the main reasons I visit this site every day. It's nice to see someone say something against the grain, even if it is just a one off opinion. That's what keeps things interesting on here - especially for those of us hunting for a new rig. Ride, smile, appreciate Smile
  • 3 0
 Awesome review! Nice to see the Banshee getting such high reviews. Given the choice, I would definitely choose this as my next DH bike!
  • 2 0
 I love my Legened MKII. Thing rips on the steep and gnar. Turns like its on rails too. And I roll faster than most of my other buddies in small bumps. Which is good because I hate the pedal.
  • 1 0
 For anyone interested in pedaling a DH bike, the Legend was optimized for a 38t ring. It changes the pedaling characteristics quite a bit over a 36t. Its much more stable under hard pedaling. Man up and run the big ring, you'll like it!
  • 1 0
 Good job Banshee. I still don't like the geo (cockpit room in particular) as much as the GT, but I could go up to a large and fix that easily I suspect.

Good luck with sales! It's a rockin' rig!
  • 1 0
 The M is a bit short but so was the sunday. L is good.
  • 1 0
 yeah i usually ride a medium but went a size up for the legend. It's perfect
  • 4 1
 That's a sick looking bike!!!
  • 3 0
 Too bad no one makes a clutch equipped 9-speed derailleur.
  • 1 0
 so run a 10spd?
  • 1 0
 Or change the tolerance on your shifter
  • 1 0
 Word on the street is that a 10spd clutch Shimano RD will work with a Sram 9spd shifter.
  • 1 0
 Needs some small modifications on the derraileur to work trouble-free. Smile
  • 1 0
 The shimano Saint and Zee deraillers are supposed to have long enough limit screws to take them down to 6 spd, you would just need the right shifter
  • 1 0
 Which would have to be 10-speed again. limiting the rear derailleur with the limit screws won't change how it responds to a shifter! Wink
  • 1 0
 We need to gave a price of how much the specific build costs, sure the frame is $3100 but it adds up quickly and people get in a pinch buying a bike like this
  • 3 0
 finally a 26tr dh bike on pinkbike, oh thanks
  • 1 0
 nice bike, great write up. those T.h.e maxi pads work great! Ive worn them while climbing thousands of vert sans chaffing or r.o.m issues.
  • 1 0
 Easily my next bike! Banshee such a solid company too, Gullevich rode for them back in the day, and look where he is now. Cant wait to ride one of these.
  • 3 0
 this is sick bike.
  • 2 1
 Sick bike for sick riders bro, that's why I've changed to Banshee and no more Specialized for me, my next project it's Banshee Legend, as Rune V2 already under my shed Smile
  • 2 4
 Sexy looking bike but far too many areas to collect dirt, I owned a Banshee before and the linkage was soooo stiff [from new], the frame wouldn't drop even after I took the shock out - hope they've improved the issue for that crazy price
  • 8 0
 Should have checked the bearings. Most likely you seized them when spraying out the linkage.
  • 4 0
 No dirt on my legend, thou when I considered buying one thought it would be an issue . Turned out it's not.
  • 2 1
 No dirt on my legend. The suspension felt super smooth without shock. Smoothest from all the frames I had and I'm old Wink
  • 2 0
 I put a sponge in the canoe beneath the shock. It's one of these insect sponges for windshields, so it doesn't soak up all the water. I had some very wet races this season but the bike didn't collect that much dirt, there aren't much pockets in the frame and the lower link moves too much, so the dirt doesn't stick to it.
  • 1 1
 bjornstc - it was like that from new, its was because the bearings were compressed on the outside race by a nylon spacer/bushing which was there as a primitive way to take out bearing play, pretty piss poor design!
  • 1 0
 Yeah.. you had an MK1. So did I. TOTALLY different animal. That was IGUS bushings. The MKII is oversized bearings now and the book has been closed if not thrown away. Its flawless. I had the MK1, sold it and bought a TR450 and quickly sold it and got the MKII. Last bike I'll ride.
  • 1 0
 MK2 is your bike? The pivot can be stiff MK1.
MK1 is my bike too stiff pivot.

^^*)
  • 2 0
 MK1 was a prototype open for public testing. Complaining about it is silly when you got frame for way less than market price and got a discount for the final product. Be reasonable.
  • 2 0
 Thats probably the only Banshee I will ever like :O
  • 3 0
 You havent ridden a scyth...
  • 7 0
 You haven't ridden a Rune V2...
  • 1 0
 Or a Morphine or a Scream..
  • 1 0
 Or a prime
  • 2 0
 secret ******!! i love that trail!
  • 1 0
 wondering if anyone else recognized it...
  • 1 0
 ya i recognized it from the drop over the log, the second to last photo makes that section look not even steep!
  • 3 0
 Shhhhhh......the word secret is in the trail name for a reason.
  • 1 2
 I doubt anybody would be able to find this trail just by knowing the name of it.
  • 1 1
 It just seems priced outside of its market. Unless you must have boutique, there are just too many frames that can be had at the price point or cheaper.
  • 5 0
 You get what you pay for... How many frames in that price point use the higher stength 7005 T6 alloy, use 3D forge all their frame sections, have custom tripple butted hydroformed tube sets, have full titanium pivot hardwear, how many offer the boutique level of customer service and hand make frames in small batches at a small factory? Not to mention that Banshee support trail builders across the globe and put a lot of effort into youth riding development, and listen to what their customers want and give it to them.... so yeah, Banshee aren't as cheep as some bigger corporate brands, but their customers are smart enought to see beyond this.... you get what you pay for.
  • 2 0
 If you want a frame for 1 season go cheaper. If you want something for years than go with Banshee. I am one of the first owners of production Mk2 Legends (preordered it way before release and probably really annoyed Keith above with my questuons Wink ) but it's the 4th season I ride it and no matter what happens the bike stays strong. I have destroyed 2 helmets, visited the hospital a few times, had surgery on my collarbone,had 2 broken fingers on 2 separate ocasions, killed my front wheel, killed the damper in my front fork and the frame still stands strong. I'm no hucker but I tend to crash and try out idiotic lines and the legend is a frame I trust. It's so good I'd be afraid to switch to something else because even if it rides better it may not be as confidence inspiring. Especially in the long run.
  • 1 0
 Not many people see that the tech used to manufacture is what really justify the price. Especially in the case with the legend. Also not many people understand whats a forged section of something and its strength to weight ratio. Same for the material spec. Had a brand new frame from banshee (7005-T6) same time as my friend had his made from 6061-T6. So i ordered headsets for mine and his frame and when arrived took the both frames for headset installation in a shop. Just because i was curious i took measures of sections from parts i was installing to ensure there are no problems. We were installing angular reducer cups for fixed head tube length so we needed this to be done right. I installed the headset on my friends frame with no problems and all was smooth. Then when i started to press the reducer cups into my frame i noticed the amount of excessive force i apply to push the cups in. It all went good by i gave me a bit of a sweat. Same headsets, same measures, different materials. These things matter. Its in the small details.
  • 1 0
 heres mine! www.pinkbike.com/photo/9454474

they truly are an amazing bike to ride. build quality is second to none.
  • 1 0
 ok than, here's mine, but Rune V2 not Legend Mk ll
www.pinkbike.com/photo/9319481

R35P3C7
  • 1 0
 sweet bike!! looks like the love child of a Turner DHR and a Canfield !!! Sick!!
  • 3 3
 Real nice bike! Heard it dents very easily though? Compared to must frames that is.
  • 2 0
 I know a guy with the 2010 edition, and he has managed to dent it two places. Once when he came a bit too short on a double and smashed the downtube into the landing, and another time when he crashed into a tree, which resulted in a small dent on the frame where the fork touched the frame. But i should mention that he is a pretty damn fast rider, so when he crashes it isn't just falling slowly over your handlebars and such. And the dents are small, and the frame has been used for a couple of seasons after the crashes without showing any signs of cracking or bending at all.
  • 4 0
 hv not had that problem. our team runs all legends and I only got a dent when i crashed in a big way...
  • 1 0
 yup. You have to insta stop your frame on something to dent it. No dents from loose rocks etc. because the downtube is round not flat (flat downtube is way easier to dent) and the canoe is undentable.
  • 3 0
 The frame is near indestructible. My only issue with the tubing is that my top tube crinkled on mine after being landed pretty flat down at trestle. Other than that the frame is one hell of a frame.
  • 1 0
 i going to have one of these !
  • 1 2
 Suspension pivots get loose after a few rides bug resolved with the Legend MKII or is it still there (i know it was common problem with the first version)?
  • 2 0
 The Legend MK1 was a prototype bike, they only made a small production run and it used a bushing system. The Legend MK11 uses bearings and has no issues with pivots or linkage at all.
  • 2 0
 AT ALL! 50 prototypes sent out to slaughter and then BOOM, they nailed it with their SECOND attempt. How many versions of other bikes are out there? lol! I cant even think of anything they could possibly do to make it better. POSSIBLY slightly slacker HA? But 1.5" head tube so angleset is an option.
  • 1 1
 in the first picture the head angle dont looks like 63.8... looks like 65 degrees...
  • 2 0
 Measured mine, came up 63.7 so it's pretty accurate.
  • 1 0
 I'm afraid to ask, but what's the retail for the bike as tested?
  • 1 0
 Banshee doesn't offer a complete build for the Legend, it is frame and shock only, then build it up with your own desired spec. With high end boutique products it is the only way to go, everybody wants the spec they want, fork, brakes, cranks, wheels, drivetrain, bars, grips, saddle, no 2 people that are building a high end bike, want the same spec.
  • 1 1
 Its a flat out big bike with lots of grip, no pop and a very smooth and predictable ride. The Foes weighs 18kg.
  • 1 0
 You work for Foes? Also it has more than enough pop.
  • 1 0
 No, have one and love it. Text was part of another discussion. Dono why that ended here...
  • 1 0
 I notice that since in other comment you try to sideline the discussion to the foes when it's a banshee review.
  • 2 1
 no 650b?
2014is just round the season
  • 1 0
 unreal
  • 1 0
 I want one now!
  • 1 0
 That looks nice
  • 1 0
 This is my next ride!
  • 1 0
 It has a canoe in it.
  • 1 0
 3 banshee
  • 1 0
 my bad.
  • 1 0
 very nice....
  • 1 0
 i love my banshee! ^)
  • 2 2
 so sick
  • 2 2
 吊炸天
  • 1 2
 Looks like a Trek Session! hahaha just kidding...
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