X-Fusion Shox Announces H3C Shock & Coil Spring System

 I nearly died of disgust.

 By Gawd, he hasn't even removed the brake pads!!!

 u right, defo can't trust a guy like that. odd!

 a woodchuck?

 This was exclusive footage of Hack Hackenstein at work in Hack's Bike Shop.

 He left the pads in. He is indeed a hack.

 @Bflutz625: are you trying to excuse this behaviour?

 @thenotoriousmic: not after seeing those pads in the caliper

 Another advantage of never trimming your brake hose on your custom build...you can do bar spins and service forks without touching your brakes! Plus the extra hose goes well with the heavier is better theme. I pay top dolllars for every pound I add to my bike.

 @Robo88: Ice is flowing through that man's veins.

 $600 for a shock that doesn't have a high speed compression and high speed rebound adjustments?

 The same kind that doesnt clean around any of the seals and openings as well... Dirt is good for the moving bits right?

 Probably gets paid to do these services and has done it enough times that he can leave the brake on there and not mess it up with oil. Time is $$$, and there is little of that in bicycle maintenance.

 you missing the point ... he wants the riders to not have brakes so that they will be heavily reliant on the suspension and then get the best testing data ... clear as mud guys, thought you would have picked up on this.

 @endurocat: quite a few shocks out there without high speed rebound...

 @skerby: This!

 @lkubica:without saying it like a dick...I would agree that the only other plausible explanation is paid promotional content.

 @endurocat: it’s for low speed individuals.

 it must be the type of animal that does data accusations too

 And it’s a 4 pot. Tut tut.

 the heavy duty hammer is missing in photo. Hope that he is pro mechanic lives on.

 @skerby: I was thinking the same thing. I never take my caliper off, and for the 500 times I've had forks apart, I've managed to never dump oil all over the place. #syringes

 might have been a blown fork, everything looks wet.

 yeah, can anyone actually get parts for x fusions? i scoured the internet for a coil for the vengeance i had, best i could find was 60 quid from taiwan, noone in the uk could get me one even though it was on the distro website. wouldnt go near their components with a 10 foot barge pole these days, which is a shame because they are good.

 pretty easy in the UK to get it serviced etc

 @inked-up-metalhead: in the UK upgradebikes was able to help me with spares www.upgradebikes.co.uk/Catalogue/Forks/X-Fusion/X-Fusion-Spare-Parts/X-Fusion-Velvet/Vengeance-26

@howsyourdad pretty sure Sweden has some service provider for FX, if not then you should check out Fillariosa in Finland - they serviced my XFs multiple times with no hassle

until recently I had full XF kits on two bikes and never had issues. And that in a country with no XF rep. I used the aforementioned companies. Really, not such a big deal with XF service

 Came here to comment the same. Servicing here is fine, lots of options, but it's near impossible for anyone to get spare parts.

I have (now had) Xfusion suspension both ends. Seal kits are hens teeth, spare parts like air caps are hard to get, or maybe can be ordered from Australia or the US, incurring big shipping costs.

Same feelings as InkedUp. Love the products performance, but literally this morning gave up on my Metrics as couldnt source spares and ordered a different brand.

XFusion - You've done the hard part (making products to rival the big 2 at a good price), just get your support sorted, please.

 @inked-up-metalhead: You wouldn't touch XF with a 10 foot barge pole because you couldn't get a coil spring for a fork they stopped producing over 6 years ago? seems reasonable. I can't think of another suspension brand that would produce a fork that lasts 6 years.

 @kiksy: Have you contacted the UK Distro with your specific inquiry? They have always been more than helpful for me and will always point me in the direction of where I can buy air seal kits and lower leg seals.

 @yxbix: I couldnt find a seal kit for my Vector Air. It's not even listed on the Upgrade site, nor a air cap for my Metrics. I can't even find any reference to it on the internet. This site in OZ lists quite a few spares listed for those looking: www.diymtb.com.au/displayItems.asp?cid=78

 Try buying it at all if you don't live in hong kong.

 @kiksy: have dealt with Duncan at DIY for 10 years, provides the best service for a supplier in Australia.

 @poah: not from my experience

 @yxbix: Yes, this. Fillariosa has been great, good selection of spares and fast service. Their website could be better, but you can ask them and they'll prolly be able to source whatever's needed.

 no problem in germany

 @kiksy: hey, sad to hear that. I guess you just have to ping them with the description of what you need. You can also try Fillariosa - just write them on FB or at myynti@fillariosa.fi Based on description they can also provide you with catalog code for required spare, so you can look elsewhere if needed. Cheers, hope you get your seal kit.

 www.lemonshox.com , I get my spares and everything from here. You can ask them for some advice on tuning and they are happy to explain and give advice.

 @dumr666: +1, also used lemonshox to get mounting hardware for my older Vector RL. Very fast replies, reasonable prices.

 Lemonshox has spare parts for reasonable prices and also do coil conversions for the Metric and Change non metric dampers to metric.

What more could you ask for?

 @yxbix: Thanks for your help. I gave up on the Vector last year after the damper blew 3 times in 2 years and bought an X2. I wanted the seal kit to try and learn how to service the damper myself, I found it in the US, but the postage made the price silly for what would effectively be a risky experiment.

I gave up on the Metric this morning (before seeing this post ) after cracking the lowers once , and blowing the dampers twice (including after it being upgraded to Roughcut) in the same period. I then - through my own fault - damaged the air cap and can't source a new one. Right now I'm done with Xfusion, but would go back to them if they made it simpler to service parts yourself.

 Yeah good luck getting a spring even!

 Yes, Duncan is fantastic. But Xfusion needs more stockists it seems!

 @Mk3Brick: yeah,i didnt say when it was, i couldnt get the spring when they were a current model, plus theres an element of intended life span needs spares available for it, which for a moderately high end fork id be expecting at least 3 or 4 years.

and you can still get springs to fit old foxs, rockshoxs etc, i.e. for the 26inch models. my mate got a spring for 06 fox 40s last year. 12 years old, spares still available.

also totem spares are still available, that was stopped around 2013. so all your arguments are invalid.

 No problem in Canada.

 @inked-up-metalhead: What argument? I have never struggled to get hold of any part from XF or their Distros, that's not an argument. I just think you are being unreasonable, but this is the MTB industry where nothing is quite good enough. Have a tap tappy day.

 I was able to source parts for a X-Fusion Trace fork this year by contacting Mike Davis of Mad Racing Suspension (as mentioned in article). He offered to get me a new part if I wanted, but I opted to get a used part (appeared as new) from a donor fork he had for a super reasonable price. I agree that the product support should be much better, but for those in the US trying to keep their XF forks going, try contacting Mike before you give up.

 That is my first thought as well. It's very inconsistent which ones they've had available, and distributors don't stock those parts. Having a local human contact(lbs/ibd) is important here. Fox really is the best for this, since you actually can buy internal shock parts. Last time I looked, you couldn't get any internal parts for newer Charger dampers.

 @Mk3Brick: your argument that no company makes a fork that lasts 6 years. theres plenty of forks around older than that, the kashima 36 on my bike is 5 years old and id be pretty pissed if spares werent available.

and how is expecting to get a spring for a at the time current fork unreasonable? i literally rang about 20 bike shops before giving up, they all said the same thing, the spring i wanted wasnt available from the distro, so what am i expected to do? keep using a product not set for my weight, or go back to rockshox/fox and actually be able to ride my bike?

 Piece of piss to get them serviced here in the UK.

 @inked-up-metalhead: He didn't once say that nobody makes a fork that lasts 6 years though did he. Just because you'd be pissed if you couldn't get parts for a 5 year old fork doesn't mean they have to accommodate you and it doesn't make them bad or anything either. I'd not be pissed if a 5 year old part was hard to get.... So what now, does that make me correct?

 @mgolder: again, expected life span. i dont think 5 years is unreasonable for a 1000 quid component. also, it wasnt a 5 year old fork, thats my entire argument, that it was a CURRENT fork at the time and the distro couldnt get the spare springs.

also, and i quote

'I can't think of another suspension brand that would produce a fork that lasts 6 years.'

so yeah he did say that.

maybe dont wade into an argument when youve not read everything, you look rather foolish. my entire point was despite my best efforts, i couldnt get a spring for a fork that was still on sale. thats why i wouldnt go near x fusion again, because ive had a bad experience. am i not entitled to an opinion any more?

 @kiksy: My experience with DIYmtb has been 100% positive. Don't know if they ship outside of Australia but they answer the phone and emails so worth asking.

 @NotNamed: i contacted Lemonshox to try to get a apring for the RV1 fitted on my Fury2019 and while he answered at the start once I confirmed I wanted the spring it was a big let down. Been 3 weeks now, bike park opens this weekend so I fitted a Boxxer spring which fits ok, i will have to trim 2cm off and it will be perfect. Definitely not impressed by Lemonshox and the general lack of parts in Europe.

Anyone know if 36mm SKF seals would fit on the RV1 ?

 @thegoodflow: Same. I had an old X-fusion shock on my DH bike. Contacted Mike about servicing it and was offered an upgrade to the current vector coil at a very reasonable price. Has been great about follow up issues and service too. Found an X-fusion Titanium springs on here for it too.

 I've actually had great experience working with xfusion. I had them service a super old vengeance fork a while back and the process went very smoothly. You just have to actually call them. I wasn't able to really find parts online either.

 Mad racing is legit for US service!

 @Mk3Brick: Marzocchi did.

I mean, that was in like 2008, but they DID. baahhahah

 @privateer-wheels: Where in Canada do I get parts and a service manual? I need to rebuild my Metric and replace the dampener cartridge but can't figure out where to get the parts/info.

 The Ripmo is probably one of the worst bike to test a coil shock but works well with an air shock

 @kazwei: Exactly my point. Im sure its a good bike, but it wont work with a coil.

 Yepp, was asking one of the push guys why ibis is not listed: too regressive to work properly with coil but will be pretty good with air shocks

 I thought the yo mama had a regressive leverage curve and highly unsuitable for linear coil shocks

 @finlay: but is way heavier. And for us weekend-warriors, the air shocks are good enough!

 @finlay: Coil is not always better, it depends on the leverage curve. Get some infos about it here: linkagedesign.blogspot.com/2018/04/ibis-ripmo-29-2019.html
Also the Canyon DH-Bike for example was designed for an air shock and uses different levers to tune the curve for their Team who rides on Coil

 @kazwei: relatively linear with a supportive midstroke. Compounded with a supportive coil you’ll get harshness in the midstroke without bottom out support. But I think you’re backwards on the canyon thing

@finlay: coil being good totally depends on the frame kinematics.

 Its not that they are unsuitable, its that air shocks tend to work better from a tuning perspective, but you can fit a coil shock to any bike (provided there is one in the right size)

While the leverage ratio is regressive, there isn't a single bike out there where the regression of the leverage ratio is so high that completely negates the rise of the force from the shock as you compress it. This means that even on regressive leverage ratio bikes with a coil shock, as you push the suspension down more, its going to push back harder and harder like what you are used to, because the force goes up as you compress the shock.

Then its just a matter of picking the spring rate and the preload setting for 2 points: the correct force to support your weight statically at 20-30% compression for preload, and the maximum force at max travel which corresponds to how hard you land after a big drop. You do the same for the air shock as well, the difference is the shape of the line that connects the two points, which affects how the bike feels. With a regressive ratio and coil shock, you will be riding at a higher spring rate up top, because you don't get the ramp up of the air shock, but on the flip side, the bike will feel more plush on big hits. None of this is wrong or bad, just depends on what you like.

 @phops: I don't believe you're correct. A coil shock (linear) will not counteract a regressive suspension design. Hell, my bike has a progressive-regressive curve, and I have to run the maximum amount of volume spacers to avoid bottoming out. I can't imagine running a coil shock.

 @jorgen49: ''won't work with a coil''...... Weird, I could have sworn it was there on the bike, working in that video.

 @spankthewan:

The spring rate is defined as additional force required to compress a shock an extra distance. Say you have a spring rate of 500 lbs/inch, which is about 20 lb/mm. If your leverage ratio is a constant 3, the force on the wheel to compress the shock an extra mm is 20/3 which is 6.6 lbs. To compress it by 2 mm is 40/3, 13.2 lbs.

Say your leverage ratio goes from 3 to 3.2 in the first mm of travel, which is completely unrealistic btw, 40/3.2 = 12.5 lbs at the rear wheel. 12.5 lbs is still greater than 6.6 lbs. So even with a regressive ratio, the suspension behaves just like a regular spring where the force goes up as you compress it. The only thing that regressive ratio does is just effectively decrease the spring rate, but remember that spring rate =/= force. The net force still goes up.

So for your bike, what you would do is simply pick a stiffer coil than you would run if you had a progressive leverage ratio, to match the bottom out force of your current setup. Whether or not that is optimal or suits your riding, especially if you are at a high level, is a different discussion, and all depends on how you ride and whether you like firmness for pumping and boosting jumps or terrain compliance. But as far as

 @mgolder suspension linkages are perhaps the number 1 topic of discussion in terms of the amount of bullshit being spread on the internet.

 @spankthewan: (continued from my previous cut off comment)

what you can run on what, you can definitely run coil shocks on regressive ratio bikes safely as long as match the spring rate and preload to the bike.

 @phops: I understand there's still force required to compress the regressive 2" of travel, but it's less force than was required to move the wheel the previous 2" of travel. What you're saying would make sense if one were to simply lower their weight onto the bike or push down on the seat with their arms. Big hits are usually the result of acceleration due to gravity, which is much different than just pushing down on a bike.

An object falling from 2 feet doesn't simply have an impact force of double a 1 foot fall. I think it would be nearly impossible to achieve the recommended 25-30% of sag while running a coil shock that's stiff enough to avoid harsh bottom outs.

Note: I'm obviously not an engineer or scientist. I'm just working with observations and basic physics knowledge here, and I'm interested in finding the correct shock setup for my progressive/regressive frame.

 @spankthewan:

>I understand there's still force required to compress the regressive 2" of travel, but it's less force than was required to move the wheel the previous 2" of travel.

I think you are conflicting rate with the net amount of force. Just because you have a decreasing RATE doesn't mean you have a decreasing FORCE. 2 things are very separate. For example, you can have a decreasing population RATE, but still have an increasing population in the sense of total number of additional people per year. For every shock and suspension out there, no matter what the RATE is, the FORCE still goes up with deflection. The only way for the FORCE to start decreasing is if the RATE goes below zero, which will never happen.

>Big hits are usually the result of acceleration due to gravity, which is much different than just pushing down on a bike.

Thats why I mentioned tuning the spring rate/preload for that big hit number. It will take a higher spring rate due to the regressive nature of suspension as opposed to if it was progressive, but it can still be done.

> I think it would be nearly impossible to achieve the recommended 25-30% of sag while running a coil shock that's stiff enough to avoid harsh bottom outs.

It is easily possible. Take a spring, set the sag to 30% with the preload collar, fiddle with your compression to your liking, and go ride. If you bottom out, go up a higher spring rate, back out the preload collar to achieve the designed sag, go ride. Repeat until you no longer bottom out. The regressive linkage does not vary that much to put the suspension outside the range of available springs.

 Yep, noticed that too. Damn you, data!

 Can you specify what was actually wrong with vector hlr? Just so i get ready as I've been on hlr coil for 6 months after ccdb air. nothing bu very impressed so far.

 That is infinitely more difficult though, sooo "prefer" is a bit of a strong statement. I'd prefer a Tesla, and yet I have a mazda 3

 The new motion Flow coil Evo looks promising. Hsc lsc Hsr Lsr And 5 step compression adjuster

 @kmg0: it's not that difficult. In theory fix could do a similar thing on the x2/DHX2 and cane creek offers the same feature on their double barrels.

 @Mntneer: I think you're missing my point. Adding features, and casting changes ups the price.

 There's Vector hlr for adjustment happy riders and pretty light too. They lacked simple pedal friendly coil shock and here it is. It's also called options.

 @bansaiman: thanks, I had missed this one! Time for a battle. MR VS EXT VS PUSH VS AVALANCHE VS MRP.

 @sethius: hell yes

 @ButtersNZ: think it needs to on an fsr bike too, as it's becoming the main set up. Same bike, same track. Strap that new data acquisition unit on and let's have at it. Steve from vorsprung to comment.

 DVO Jade $400

 Because the world?

 @bishopsmike: but america is most of the western market.

 I buy rebuild kits online for my hilo. Mad racing wants you to send it in.

 LSC and rebound plus a 3-position platform is a pretty good set of adjustments. Its what people are used to. Simple to adjust is appealing to a lot of folk. Same amount of adjustment as a DPX2 is it not

 indeed

 Nailed it in the looks department for sure.