Video: 8 Enduro Field Test Bikes Hucked to Flat

Nov 1, 2023 at 21:13
by Matt Beer  


An Eclectic Collection of 8 Enduro Bikes Hucked to Flat

Whiplash has been know to occur

We’re back with another fan-favorite to wrap up another glorious Field Test. This round of the Huck to Flat is more exciting than the last, thanks to our friends at MTB Hopper. That gave us plenty of hang time and whiplash. Chains were dropped and heads were slapped. I think my feet even hit the ground a few times!

I think it’s fair to say that half of the bikes walked away without too much criticism, but the other half wasn’t so lucky.

We noted a few creaks from the Commencal’s linkage during the test, but there was a loud cry when it was sent off the ramp. Word on the street is that there are updated spacers to alleviate that issue. That ultra-progressive linkage on the Unno Burn couldn’t save it from bottoming out. The Pole Onni also emitted a solid clunk, although not as severe as what we felt on the trail.

And of course, there is the elephant in the room; Trek’s Slash and the chain-dropping issue. This wasn’t something I experienced with all the laps I put it through down the Whistler mountainside, but when we brought it to a parking lot with a wooden kicker, it became the start of the show, right in front of the slow-motion camera.

Dario worked his mechanic magic and hasn’t experienced any dropped chains since realigning the lower pulley wheel. You wouldn’t believe it, but a whole 2mm seems to make all of the difference.

Luckily, that’s all for this round of the Huck to Flat!

Author Info:
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Member since Mar 16, 2001
352 articles

  • 171 0
 Thank you for showing both sides. Best HTF video to date.
  • 20 1
 *slow clap* beautiful
  • 15 0
 Now we just need a huck to flat with Rampage/Hardline suspension settings so we can see the difference it makes for the rider immediately after landing.
  • 4 3
 @Glory831Guy: the problem is, in order to bottom out a bike with those settings, you'd have to hit a 50 foot drop haha
  • 5 0
 @danielfloyd: Yeah, that's probably a bit excessive. How about local jump line suspension settings instead?
  • 1 0
 How about we get a “tomahawk down the mtn at 30mph” test next year?
  • 107 0
 The Lal drivetrain on the Nicolai looks awfully tidy in this. Minimal flappery or fuss.
  • 43 0
 The whole bike also looks the most composed, with little post-huck hiccups
  • 9 0
 It really is impressive. It's amazing on the downhills and better than I am on the up hills.
  • 25 0
 the only one that the chain doesn´t bottom out to the flor... CLEARLY WINNER HERE
  • 4 1
 Looks complicated, but it seems to work.
  • 13 0
 but notice how close the pedals come to hitting the ground on this bike compared to the others.
  • 3 0
 @PauRexs: yeah just the... Riders heel?
  • 13 0
 I'm not gonna lie, this huck to flat made my day. Thanks Pinkbike for renting the fancy camera and all that.
  • 3 0
 That is the reason my next Bike will BE this. But I need it tailored to me. 700 bucks worth spend for this extra. I wished they had a steeper seat tube. When this frame is paired with a silent hub with less POE, that would be awesome. Only listenig to suspension and tires..
  • 1 2
 @Serpentras: so how is it tailored if you cannot change anything? If you are spending 700 bucks to get a right geo, just get a custom build bike
  • 2 0
 @cedric-eveleigh: Trek need to talk to you for their next generation of enduros... that pulley is horrendous and it would have solved their main issues seems...
  • 2 0
 @workingclasswhore: ...which is an even stronger argument for the quality of the chain retention. The chassis is closer yet the chain is further away. Very nice.
  • 63 15
 After seeing it happen in slow motion, I'm staggered that Trek released that bike into the wild. I would be so angry if I had spent thousands of my hard-earned dollars on a bike with a massive, massive design flaw like that.
  • 13 1
 No way, did it drop the chain on huck to flat? Was it with the fix applied?
  • 70 6
 @lkubica, this was filmed before we adjusted the lower pulley wheel spacing. Since then there haven't been any more dropped chains.
  • 3 0
 too bad matt's leg and foot were in the way when filmed on the drive side. you could see how close it came on the other huck when viewed from the non-drive side
  • 18 6
 @mikekazimer: While it's cool to know that the problem is mostly gone, it shouldn't have to be adjusted after a consumer purchases the bike. Should be for the most part ready to ride other than suspension setup. Lewis Buchanan seemed to have trouble with the upper pulley wheel as well.
  • 9 0

Are you asking for a one footed landing HTF?

Sounds like something they may need an intern for.
  • 23 7
 @braydenkromis12, sure, ideally it would have been correct from the start, but issues in assembly sometimes happen. Luckily it's a 5-minute fix, and it requires minimal mechanical abilities if a consumer does end up with a bike that hasn't been updated.
  • 5 2
 totally, should be like a DH device that chain can't jump off top. Not like they haven't been round as twenty odd years..
  • 2 1
 @ocnlogan: no, it just would have been more convenient if his right foot was at 3:00 instead of 9:00. Although I think the idea is to make it possible to see as much linkage and shock action as possible, hence right foot back when filming from that side
  • 2 0
 @ocnlogan: just right foot forward.
  • 12 11
should I pay $12,000 for the top level bike from the box and then fix the manufacturer's 2mm. issue on my own? Smile
  • 11 10
 If I were Trek I’d be mad they filmed it with the bike not properly adjusted.
  • 36 4
 @Amstafff, I'm sure the shop that sells you a $12,000 bike will be more than willing to help fix the issue - no greasy hands required on your part.
  • 8 0
 @Phillyenduro: if anything pinkbike helped show the public an issue without trek having to say a word.
  • 5 4
 @mikekazimer: I read that there hasn't been anymore chain drops but it wasn't mentioned if you hucked it more afterwards.
Can you clarify if you guys have you hucked it to flat numerous times since this adjustment to see if it would happen again?
  • 4 0
 @Phillyenduro: why? they're the ones that built it that way?
  • 21 2
 It sucks all around that this issue is happening, but so far indications are good that the suggested fix (correct installation) solves the problem. It's an assembly mistake, not a design flaw. Again, understandably annoying, but a relatively simple fix.

That fix is spacing the guide out 7mm from the ISCG tabs and rotating it a bit clockwise to increase chainwrap and mitigate chain growth. It varies a bit depending on frame size and drivetrain, but clocking the guide and positioning the roller so it's 10-24mm from the bottom of the chainstay seems to be the sweetspot.

This bike rips, so if it tickles your fancy, I wouldn't rule it out because of this fixable issue.
  • 17 2
 @NoahColorado: its easy to spot the expectant riders of new and the old schoolers who have been roding 20+ years lol...we look at it and are like "well hell the chainline is off" and fix it..we had to make stuff work always lol...
I don't expect anything to be bolt and go out the box, there's always a shake down run..first year stuff can has some minor issues in any field...

Bike rips love mone I adjusted my chainline cause I didn't get a 55mm set stack ring got me 54 so I adjusted lower cog and have ZERO chain issues...
  • 8 2
 @mikekazimer: Yeah, nobody wants a dentist with greasy hands working in their mouth!
  • 19 5
 Oh my, a bit of flair for the dramatic eh?
Attitudes like this, or @braydenkromis12 and @Amstafff are part of the reasons why prices go up, items get proprietary parts, and things get more difficult to fix.
Its a pretty self indulgent point of view that everything is perfect for you, at all times. Things arent always perfect, and rather than moaning about how inconvenient it would be for you (to think that youre whinging about something that hasnt actually happened to you...) think of it as an opportunity for you to problem solve an issue. Whether thats walking back into the bike shop, doing some online research, or, and heaven forbid, get your hands a bit dirty and sort it out on your own.

Appreciate @mikekazimer for providing some background, well done all around PB
People getting up in arms about expensive toys for the forest, that they havent actually experienced.
  • 17 5
 @bullcrew: Its unfortunate that some cant see the opportunity in some situations, the opportunity to learn, get stuck in on a problem, and try to sort things out for themselves. The satisfaction of troubleshooting, and solving a problem, it feels friggin great.

Imagine being a 15 yr old bike shop employee, and someone with the attitude of @stravaismyracecourse brings in a Slash to complain about the major design flaw of 2mm of added spacing!

Man I remember the days of endless chain drops, shimming Mr Dirt guides, hand bending der hangers, constantly tightening headsets, all the Mega9 missed shifts, and toeing canti and V-brake pads.
  • 8 8
 @onawalk: Nah man. If I spend good money on a new bike—I don’t care if it’s $1k or $12k—that shit shit needs to be ready to roll right off the rack. If it’s not, the manufacturer needs to equip the shop to make it right, especially if it’s an inherent design/mechanical flaw as seems to be the case here. Things happen and sometimes aren’t perfect, but when you buy something new, you should expect things to be as perfect as possible. If not, and it’s the manufacturer’s fault, they need to make it right.

That said, it seems like the problem has been remedied, and it’s simple enough.
  • 8 1
 I don't understand how moving the lower idler by 2mm could prevent the chain jumping off in the way it does in this video. It must handle a range of chain angles from the rear derailleur, so it will rarely be perfectly inline.
  • 3 0
 @onawalk: the way things are now. It breaks? Replace it. No troubleshooting. No repairs.

Ah Mr Dirt chain guides...
  • 4 0
 @boozed: Crank chainline is fixed, derailleur chainline is dynamic, the idler is much closer to the crank so if it's chain line doesn't match the crank then problems happen and 2mm is a lot of misalignment for static gears
  • 11 0
 @onawalk: Ahhh I almost miss the early 90's and honing my skills at toeing canti and V-brake pads, sometimes mid-ride on rare but really wet & sloppy days. People nowadays, who haven't dropped cash on the product in question, but bitching online endlessly about an early-production oversight solved by a simple, thicker washer... they're never gonna survive anything remotely taxing lol
  • 9 1
 @TheR: I’m no trek fanboy but fixing that problem takes less time than configuring a Bluetooth car stereo to connect to your phone. If that’s worthy of spending time complaining about, I’m stoked that your life has no bigger problems.
  • 2 2
 @boozed: because the roller on the chainguide needs to be aligned with the chainring. As it was setup, it was too far inboard. So when the chain whiplashed on that huck, it settled back down to the outside of the roller. Had it also been rotated further clockwise it wouldn't have whiplashed so severely.
  • 4 7
 @hg604: I’m not complaining because I don’t own a trek and really have no desire to own one. And also, if I’m the one to break something, I’ll take responsibility and fix it or replace it.

But if buying a defective product is acceptable with you, then I think you’re a sucker and a chump. If the solution is simple, then great. It will be simple for them to fix. That’s what a good company does — own their mistakes and make it right. I don’t know why that’s too much to ask.
  • 3 0
 @TheR: they did own it and addressed it. I'm pretty sure they will hand out the specs to get it dialed.. I did my own set up and zero offset chainring so my lime was almost 1mm inboard I tweaked the roller and zero chain loss.
  • 1 4
 @bullcrew: I never said they didn’t take care of it. I don’t have an issue with the bike, or Trek.

The baffling thing to me is people acting like it’s a bridge too far for a customer to expect the company or their representative dealers to take care of their customers when there’s an issue with a faulty product.
  • 5 1
 @TheR: don't think they were givin time..seems Buchanan jumped and everyone followed...gonna be a great year for wool with all the sheep out there..

A company has to be giving a little time the bikes tested by reviewers didn't seem to have any issues if they did none reported it...possibly the bikes were checked out and sent with proper spacing , the production set up I'm sure is a different section then marketing and loaners...
I've been in business my whole life so when this happens even to fellow competitors in my industry I will sort it out for them.
Fox stuff is having issues and I don't see a massive witch hunt over the float X2, or grip dampers I've pulled apart with no oil, or the ones that have separated like I repaired today...I won't start crap cause stuff happens and some stuff takes a moment to get ironed out
  • 1 12
flag Jackmolo34 (Nov 2, 2023 at 23:00) (Below Threshold)
 @onawalk: where do you get off with calling others dramatic? The design is flawed plane and simple and it was clearly rushed to market. You are clearly a fan preaching in defense of a mega-brand that will surely need to publicly address this model’s issue that has been identified across multiple independent reviews. Projecting that you’re part of an ever shrinking group of self-reliant problem solvers and that consumers should buy this product and suffer accordingly is laughable. Keep drinking that Kool-Aid bud.
  • 6 0
 @bullcrew: 100%! We seem to have one group expecting perfection out of the box, and another who understand bike, or anything mechanical for that matter.
I have never once in my adult life bought a bike and expected perfection out of the box. Everything gets checked, adjusted, lubed and torqued. Tyres get swapped, cockpit swapped and adjusted, seat height and angles set. If checking my chain guide angle is the price of owning a bike that absolutely slaps and suits me perfectly then I’m not about to complain.
  • 6 1
 @Jackmolo34: yeah not thinking a 7mm spacer is a design flaw more an oversight in what was supplied and shipped..
So if this is the reason and it's a spacer for chainline, it's a simple remedy and doesn't warrant the backlash and most of all 90% don't even have the bike or even seen it..

So I'd choose those who remedy and overcome to ride with me versus those who lay down and act like they are dying cause a tire went flat and it's the end of the world .just saying..

So if it turns out the 7mm spacer remedies chainline then that's what I consider a simple fix and happens..the bike rides great I'm not a trek fanboy, been on about everything and canfields for a majority of my years..loved rocky mountain RM series aside of breaking them in half...that's a design flaw and yet was still a blast to ride..had 3 lol .
  • 1 0
 Okay but wait where's the lower guide/roller thing in the test vid ?
  • 5 0
 @TheR: You spent more time whinging about it here, than it would likely take to fix.
Stop making things sound like there these detrimental design flaws, its spacing an idler wheel by 2mm, and clocking the guide.
To have the audacity to think that you should be able to go about life without experiencing inconvenience is pretty wild.
  • 4 2
 @Jackmolo34: the OP comment was
"After seeing it happen in slow motion, I'm staggered that Trek released that bike into the wild. I would be so angry if I had spent thousands of my hard-earned dollars on a bike with a massive, massive design flaw like that."

Considering the solution is spacing the idler by 2mm, and clocking the chainguide (which, if youre unaware, is 3 screws, on adjustable slots) I think referring to it as a massive design flaw, is very dramatic.

Now, if a person isnt mechanically inclined or has no idea about what is being stated, maybe this seems like a daunting task, but its still not a "massive design flaw". Can we agree on that?

As far as being a Trek shill, I've never actually owned a Trek, ridden a demo Liquid 30 a bunch, didnt love it, had issues with the wheel/frame flex in the rear, rubbing on the chainstay. I would consider that a design flaw, but it was really only an issue for heavier riders, that lacked skill.
I will say, theres opportunity in situations, and all of us are better off to search for the positive ones, rather than the opposite.
As a note, I dont think I said problem solvers were an eve shinking group, nor did I suggest anyone buy anything
I appreciate that Trek is what they are, just like I appreciate Forbidden, Knolly, Transition, etc
You have yourself a good day man, hope it picks up for you
  • 3 0
 @onawalk: I'm with you on this one.

Does it suck your new $$$ bike drops chains? Yes. Is it the end of the world? Not by a long shot, and Trek will make it right if the end user is not capable.

I bought a new bike from a reputable manufacturer recently. It shipped with a chainring with the wrong offset, resulting in, you guessed it, persistent dropped chains. I identified the problem, took it to the LBS where I bought it, and the manufacturer warrantied it without incident. Got my new chainring installed a few days later and we're good.

Kind of a pain in the ass but not a big deal in the grand scheme. Go look at any vehicle forum and you'll see the much worse. It happens.
  • 2 0
 @Stoaks: No, he is not with you on this one. According to him, you are the source of rising costs and a whole host of other problems in the industry because you went back and had the shop take care of it with a warranty from the factory.

For the record, I think what you did was completely reasonable and well within your rights as a consumer.
  • 1 0
 @onawalk: Where did I “whinge” about the Trek specifically? Where did I say I should be able to go through life without inconvenience? Do you possess an iota of reading comprehension skills?

I will break it down for you slowly, since I am either not communicating clearly enough, or you are a complete midwit.

1. I am completely ambivalent about the Trek. That means I do not care. I have absolutely nothing invested in it, neither love for Trek nor hate. Sounds like they came up with a solution to the problem. Great.

2. So put the Trek out of your head for a second. My main point is that if there is a problem with a new product, and I did not cause the problem and it came straight from the factory or a showroom floor, it is not unreasonable for me to expect the manufacturer or the distributor help me fix said problem. That fix can come in the form or communication (hey, try a 2mm spacer), repair (hey, let us install this 2mm spacer for you), replacement, or whatever. Why is that a bridge too far? The problem originated with the manufacturer or dealer — why should they not be held accountable?
  • 2 0
 @NoahColorado: Finally, I'm glad someone actually did there homework! I've said this on other posts/forums that it is not a design issue. IT'S AN ASSEMBLY ISSUE!
If anyone wants to take the time, go to the MRP website, they have installation instructions for all the "high pivot" bike manufactures that use their chain tensioners. And yes, the spacers make a big difference due to the different drivelines (e.g. 52mm vs 55mm, etc.). And the chain tensioner bracket has a specific callout where it needs to be positioned. So the real issue is that the folks overseas to to assemble them correctly.
  • 1 0
 110 miles on my XT 9.8 and not a single dropped chain. I'm leaning toward some blame on T-Type transmission as well since some the feedback is saying how noisy it is. The XT runs dead silent in the rough.
  • 2 0
 @TheR: I think maybe youre misunderstanding me here.
Would it be fair to say that the wrong part installed, might be slightly different than the correct spacing of a guide wheel?
One would require the replacement of the incorrect part, one would require spacing a guide wheel (adding a washer or two)

I take exception to your comment "inherent design/mechanical flaw as seems to be the case here"
Thats not what it is, can we agree on that?

Im gonna overlook your other comment about being a complete midwit (?) and say this.
We dont see eye to eye on this, I appreciate anyone who is willing to diagnose and rectify an issue, especially when its this small on their own. I think theres merit in that, and I think it should be celebrated to some degree. I am wiling to cut some slack to the manufacturer, assembler, bike shop, etc for things like this, it happens.
What bothers me, is a host of people who havent actually experienceed the problem, throwing around "design flaw", etc for something fairly insignificant.

Now, its fine that we disagree on this, but theres prolly no need for either of us to try and belittle each other over it. Seem fair?
I'll try and do better myself
  • 1 0
 @Stoaks: Good on ya for figuring out the problem, and getting that sorted, f*ck yeah.

And honestly feel free to rep the bike brand and shop for helping out with that
  • 2 0
 @onawalk: the Russian dude has a point are just attacking him for no reason
  • 1 0
 @YPSTOLM: Uhm, if youre referring to @Amstafff I dont think I "attacked" him at all.

Also, did I miss a reply where @Amstafff noted that I "attacked" them
  • 2 0
 @bullcrew: Well I think your right that a lot of big brands not getting flack from media when they put out bad products, yet the smaller brands get savaged for the most minor of flaws. I'm sure it has nothing to do with advertising revenues
  • 1 0
 @briain: so I’m going to assume this is your example of a big brand nor getting flak,
Can you provide an example of a small brand that was “savaged”?
  • 1 0
 @onawalk: more talking generally. But in this test the Nicolai getting crap for it's price despite the spec been full on superbuild WAO rims onyx hubs EXT shock, bike yoke dropper even xtr shifter and it's about $1000 more than the trek or ibis with fairly standard builds
  • 1 0
 @briain: This Nicolai is 5k EUR just frame + drivetrain ... So you can definitely buy frame for any bike from this test and build it cheaper with a better spec. For sure this is one and only bike of a kind and comparing it's price to anything else makes no sense, but it is pricey as f*ck.
  • 1 0
 @lkubica: Well the session is €4700 the ibis over €4000. So while the Nicolai is bloody expensive it's not that much more than some of the big brands
  • 1 0

Couldn't be bothered to run recommended settings and gave the fork slack for not working correctly.
  • 1 0
 @briain: what on earth are you talking about?
In the videos, there is exactly 1 mention of price for both bikes, one.
In the written portion, price is not noted, or even mentioned as a con for the Nicolai, but it is mentioned for the Ibis.
The Inis comes with carbon rims, and Hydra hubs, and a full SRAM XX transmission, with AXS dropper.

You’re talking absolute nonsense.

I’m far more interested in the Nicolai bikes than the Ibis, but I’m willing to bet, pretty well everything they thought about both bikes being spot on.
There’s a 7lb difference in those two bikes, and the Ibis prolly feels like a rocket ship compared to the Nicolai on anything other than janky fall line descents.
  • 1 0
 @briain: again with your nonsense,
PB tried 3 different dampers in this fork, all in an effort to try and get the best out of it.
Maybe ai missed where they didn’t run the recommended settings, could you point that out?

And to say they “savaged” them, again with the flair for the dramatic. Are you trying to drum up YouTube views with your silly overstated language?

Now, I know a little bit about suspension, and there are very few instances where running zero sag in off-road applications is the solution. The fast guys run stuff suspension, there no doubt, but that’s because they hit stuff much harder and faster than you or I, if your building a fork to sell to the masses, that’s not gonna win you any prizes
  • 1 0
 @onawalk: Right this a copy and paste from the designer of the fork.the Bright system works with some unique specialties but MUST BE TRYED/RIDED in the correct set up. Seb for sure wants to make a good test... but never hinted how he was using the fork and only three days ago he clearly said what was wrong with him.
remember that my job is to male a suspension go fast(!)... if I have feedbacks clear a d expert, I have the cure.
this on the system must work at 0-5 mm STATIC sag and then everything is done by the SL valve that manages the DYNAMICAL SAG.
So 5mm sag 3% instead of 20% not surprised the damper didn't work well. Double the air pressure in your forks and see how harsh they feel.
But let's get back to the field test the session drops chains easy fix granted but an absolute pain in the arse shouldn't leave the shop like that as it is priced as a premium product also sounds like a bag of bolts, has a silly one-piece bar and stem which they pulled off, while also having huge adjustments they are aftermarket purchases which is a break from industry norms and its also only 300 euros cheaper than the Nicolai without a drivetrain. The Comencal either has terrible bearings or really poor frame alignment and the bottle contacts the shock which is frankly pisspoor design and manufacture. These are all brushed over in the reviews of the big brands. I get they didn't like the Nicolai for a host of reasons but the weighting of the reasons doesn't add up to me. The Trek in particular is bloody expensive and seems quite compromised in a number of areas. In short for me when I buy a bike I research the longevity of frames, how easy bikes are to maintain, warranties and how those manufacturers apply them
  • 1 0
 @briain: So, can we agree you were wrong about your example on pricing, and there was no "savaging" of anything?

Where exactly did you pull this direct quote from the Bright designer, and have you given any thought to the sequence of events, or the timeline of the response?
Seems strange that they would provide 3 different damper cartridges, but not provide that info while doing the testing?

Some people dont seem to understand that not all quirks on bikes can be sorted prior to the bike leaving the store. You can understand that a bike might go out that hasnt been ridden down a couple DH trails, so the shop would have no idea that there was an issue? Not to mention, this bike was likely shipped to PB to be assembled, so didnt get run through a shop....
Youre trying to make up issues, where there isnt any, the one piece bar and stem, might be great for some people, maybe not for others, why on earth does that even matter?
I'm confused but your issues, and I think you are as well
  • 1 0
 @onawalk: You really need to be right. The quote is from the comments section below the article. The reviewer didn't tell Bright that he was running 20% sag until a couple of days before the review was published. It's all there if you want to check. As far as pricing goes there's only a 6% difference in pricing between the Nicolai and the Session. The Nicolai is made in-house in Germany not Asia. Nicolai guarantees replacement parts for 10 years after they stop making a model particularly relevant for the weird drivetrain. The bike includes also includes a drivetrain and an EXT shock. So while neither of these bikes are value propositions the Nicolai certainly seems better value for money to my mind, but the review mentioned its expense multiple times and called the session a premium product same statement very different conitations. Further, while you keep dismissing the dropped chains it will ruin your ride quicker than a lot of other issues and Trek still hasn't issued a product update to shops to fix this. Transition replaced the swingarm on all their downhill bikes last year because of a potential fault that didn't actually seem like a common fault. To be clear I'm not saying the Nicolai is a good bike or even better than the session, However, every minor fault of the Nicolai was highlighted while the Treks faults were brushed over price, incorrect assembly from factory which causes mechanical issues, noisy, expensive bar, and stem combo that they immediately removed only bike that was tested in 2 sizes etc. Doesn't seem like a even handed test
  • 1 0
 Just a correction I said session but obviously meant slash
  • 34 2
 Wow that Ibis HD6 looks a lot uglier on the driveside
  • 17 0
 Especially cuz it's the Pole! Is it me or did they not show the HD6 on the drive side? Watched that piece 3 times never saw it.
  • 3 0
 @mikekazimer where's the Ibis driveside??
  • 25 0
 I would like to own none of them.
  • 3 0
 Not even the nicolai?
  • 8 0
 @eebz: god no. too heavy, too many pulleys, too ugly, too big and its a single pivot.
  • 20 4
 Oh my, trek chain. Sad trombone.
  • 2 3
 This was before the fix. Kaz says after the proper spacers were installed (and are now from the factory), it hasn’t dropped a chain.
  • 1 0
 @islandforlife: spacers !? In the lower freewheel ?
  • 17 2
 Houston, we have a problem! The drive-side sequence shows only 7 of the 8 bikes (and mislabels the Pole as the Ibis!).
  • 10 0
 Polë is at 1:54. Did not break (this time).
  • 11 2
 Chain beings being wild during compression makes me believe pedal kickback is not that important as people think
  • 4 0
 I think only the top chain matters for "pedal kickback", but floppy chains and tight clutches can add their own impact to the suspension performance.
  • 3 0
 100% this. The value of the Ochain is more to deal with general flapping chain impact on suspension than chain growth due to suspension action.
  • 3 1
 Go watch vorsprungs video on the subject.
  • 13 3
 Pole must be stoked their bike survived this year's Huck to flat
  • 1 0
 Did it die in other editions?
  • 1 0
 @rafaelgaede: it sure did. Look at the last time Pole was in a group test.
  • 7 0
 The pole seemed to have the least amount of flex, while the chromag seemed to have the most amount of flex, at least to my eyes.
  • 1 0
 Yeah, you can really see how stiff and solid the Pole is when viewed back to back with the others.
  • 2 0
 Yeah the Pole really didn't have much in the way of flex at all. The chromag definitely seemed a bit wobbly. What that actually means in the real world is something else. I think the Pole would benefit from running suspension extremely soft as in a very light compression tune to compensate for the stiff chasis
  • 2 0
 Just to add a case in point was how quiet everyone in the industry was about the X2 shock which I sold my last bike over
  • 1 0
 Look at the Commencal in the drive-side shot. You can see the toptube flex upwards and reverberate from the bottom-out impact. Brutal. They weren't lying when they commented how there was a lot of flex in that frame.
  • 9 1
 Jesus, the Nicolai BB damn near kisses the ground.
  • 7 0
 Big forks still flexing hard! Can we get a Dorado or an Intend in there for comparison?
  • 1 0
 And a new and old Boxxer for reference
  • 2 0
 Even 48mm upside down MX forks with a dual crown flex
  • 4 0
 It is my imagination…or a complex interaction between the reaction of the rear suspension and the fork…which settles the question: ‘which is more rigid? A ZEB or a FOX 38’?
  • 4 9
flag thenotoriousmic (Nov 2, 2023 at 14:44) (Below Threshold)
 Rockshox always has the better chassis. Blatantly apparent from this video.
  • 3 0
 Given the massive number of variables to each landing, is there anything we can actually draw from this video? I appreciate it is a bit of light entertainment, and I enjoyed watching it, but everyone seems to make a lot of judgement as to each frame/forks inherent characteristics?
  • 2 0
 Big heavy flappy chains are impacting suspension performance more than any hub.
  • 4 0
 Two things were learned here:
1) Ibis got robbed
2) No matter which bike it is, it's wild to see how much the wheelbase contracts if you just pay attention to that area alone. Wildly wild.
  • 1 0
 Yep, once that front fork start compressing, doesn't matter what rear wheel path you have, wheel base is shrinking hard.
  • 5 0
 Gonna be honest this is the only video I watched from the field test. Read the articles tho.
  • 4 0
 We need to see some huck to flat with inverted forks now, so we could see if they twist like noodle of if they stay more straight
  • 3 1
 Its interesting that there is a clear two-stage compression of a lot of the rear ends - quickly travelling through the first 2/3rd or 3/4s, followed by the point at which riders knees begin to bend and the shock shaft speed slows right down or almost pauses - then they final portion of travel, the 'progessive ramp up' as all manufacturers like to proudly proclaim.

What that says to me, is that the bikes progressiveness or resistance to bottom out could be affected far, far more by rider technique, weight, strength, flexibiltiy etc, than the minutae of suspension kinematics or throwing your 2023 shock on the bin as the 2024 version is clearly so much better.
  • 2 0
 There's a lot going on with these suspension designs and it's fascinating to watch how they go through the travel. You can see the stiction point at various parts of the stroke and watch how the frame compresses, then the fork does a bit too, judders a little then the frame continues etc. One thig that stood out for me though was the Commencal. Almost all the bikes hit the bottom, and hit it hard but just sorta stopped. The Meta smashed into the end stop and the seat post vibrates back and forth like a tuning fork!
  • 1 0
 Maybe that's why they talked about it being a bit flexy
  • 6 0
 Nicolai for the win.
  • 4 0
 Damn, what's the clearance of the chainring/pedals on that Nicolai at full bottom out??
  • 3 0
 Matt's heel nearly touched the ground.
  • 3 0
 @nozes: Damn, in the last few seconds of the whole video, when the bike name isn't blocking the shoe, I think you can actually see his heels dragging on the ground for a second. yeesh
  • 2 0
 @nozes: Trek doesnt look like it is far away from that too
  • 7 3
 Watching every single chain smack the pavement except the Nucleon was an eye opener for me. Drivetrain of the future.
  • 2 0
 Interesting how the front wheel comes to a complete stop for a moment, with every single huck? I'm not a physics major, but wouldn't that have an adverse affect on steering and control during a big impact?
  • 1 0
 Slow hucks to flat don’t happen enough out in the wild for that to matter. Also, at this frame rate, I’d haphazardly guess that the pause is shorter than 0.1 sec.
  • 2 0
 Anybody notice the flexing pedals? I guess it is normal, but still.. yikes! A friend just broke his ankle, totally unrelated to biking, but still I couldn't help to notice and feeeeeel..
  • 1 0
 Holy shit the clutches on non-T AXS are weak! Actually managed to get the chain to hit the ground on a few! Even Transmission got the chain close to the ground. The one mechanical Eagle and the Supre were a different ballgame when it come to the chain flopping around. You'd think the robots could handle shifting with more clutch, although clutch force doesn't have much effect with X-Horizon type mechs unless you're punching thought 3 or more gears at once, which T-type doesn't even do, so it should have a beast of a clutch.
  • 1 0
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  • 1 0
 Er….I still have a mental model of the bendy bendiness of the first HTFs and the equipment/component failures - bikes are getting a lot more capable. And heavier. Mostly. Put a XC lightweight in there…??????
  • 3 3
 Poooor little noodly forks. You can literally see all of them stop sliding for a few milliseconds when the stanchions are at there max bend. I know it doesn't sell because people hae their look and have their reflexes calibrated to the varying angle and wheelbase of traditionnal forks but seeing them bend like that makes you wish for a linkage fork.
  • 14 1
 That is not what happens. The moment that the stanchions stop is always when the tires have expanded and start compressing again. In that moment, the tires take all or most of the compression force.
Tires are mostly springs without damping: They bounce up and down multiple times during one landing in those HTFs. Every time they get compressed, they immediately want to expand again. They move faster than the damped suspension, so that is why they can expand while the center of gravity of bike+rider is still moving towards the ground. Some time during expansion, the compressive force is stronger again and the tire starts compressing *again*, and during that time the lower part of the fork moves down, "escaping" the stanchions. You see that as "stopping to move", but in reality all the force is still being taken up by the whole system of tires, forks, flex, rider.
  • 1 0
 @theobviousfaker: I'm interested in the finer points of suspension dynamics watching either or both front and rear suspension stall during the HTF 'test'. Given your explanation, maxed suspension settings, same tire pressures, I assumed there would be less difference in the bike's movement. Now, there are rider imposed differences--front or rear tire initial contact with the ground, speed, height, gear selection (chain drop or droop). It's tough for me to use these results in my new enduro bike selection criteria...but they sure are entertaining!
  • 1 0
 Thanks, appreciate these uploads. This one however cannot be slowed even more by us viewers. That is great fun to see and we get a better sense of the action using 50% or 25% speed.
  • 2 0
 @Mattbeer it would be amazing If You Guys could Huck some USD forks to flat. New Manitou dorado, intend Edge. That would be intresting.
  • 2 0
 Trek Slash needs a long term test. A weekend without a dropped chain isn't sufficient evidence that it's no longer dropping chains after the fix IMV.
  • 3 0
 Finally! The real review!
  • 4 0
 Both sides? Amazing!
  • 6 3
 Trek stans crying right now
  • 5 2
 Trek stans don't huck
  • 3 0
 I'm shocked ... no one blabbed in with wanting to ride the pole
  • 2 2
 I'd love to try riding the Pole, but would be more inclined to purchase the Ibis as it stands now. I'd really like to hear a quantitative value for the "highness" of the pole BB.
  • 7 0
 Have you tried the Blue Oyster bar?
  • 3 0
 @Danmcdan: Well played.
  • 1 1
 I'm heading to Bentonville AR for a few days with my Pole Vikkela. The 0° BB drop feels great to me. Great clearance and rather invincible feeling on steep techy downhill sections. I don't perceive any negatives. The thing simply climbs and descends everything really well.
  • 1 1
 Another reason after these videos, to stick around with Shimano derailleurs.. The regular GX AXS swings badly, and even the cage is not so tight on the newer Transmission types too.
  • 1 0
 Bikes just look so awful and deformed bottoming in slow mo. Seeing those wheel bases shrink, shocks blow through stroke mostly ahead of forks doing do…yuk.
  • 1 0
 The ibis blew through the rear before the fork even started compressing. I'd like to see that one filmed again
  • 2 0
 I love how you can see the HBO engage on the RS Shocks
  • 1 0
 It hurt more watching the rims hit the ground. I think you better up the tire pressure a bit more next time.
  • 2 0
 On youtube you can watch at half speed and its even better.
  • 2 0
 Amazing, however how do u bottom out the fork?
  • 2 0
 I think the trek chain fell off… this must be pre spacer fix.
  • 1 0
 Now that this has almost been perfected I suggest uping the game by adding a trick to the jump.
  • 1 0
 I noticed during the Nicolai portion that his feet come much closer to the ground the the rest of the bikes...
  • 2 0
 LOL at the trek dropping the chain in the parking lot.
  • 1 0
 Finally filming both sides!
  • 1 0
 Start of the show. Did not disappoint.
  • 1 0
 That Ibis HD6 at 1:55 sure looked a lot like the Pole…
  • 1 0
 I KNOW you guys saw it too

  • 1 0
 pricy bikes have some bouncy chains.
  • 1 0
 In this video test, Slash is without the lower pulley?
  • 1 0
 Great work as always. Love it
  • 1 0
 Nukeproof Hucked to BK!!!
  • 1 0
 2:39 - chains falls off the lower one

So do I get or not the slash ?!
  • 1 0
 Pretty weak jump TBH. The slo mo makes it look huge lol.
  • 1 0
 Pole has the wrong lable. It is not the IBIS HD6.
  • 1 0
 The last ibis looks weird
  • 1 0
 The Ibis looks sick!
  • 14 16
 you should probably check the pole for cracks
  • 1 2
 Evil Wrekoning please.
  • 2 5
 The pole didn’t break!
  • 4 2
 But then if you remove the chainstays they can’t break.
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