Randoms Round 1 - Sea Otter 2024

Apr 18, 2024 at 23:41
by Mike Kazimer  
And we're off... Sea Otter 2024 kicked off under sunny skies and perfect temperatures (I only got slightly sunburned), and there were plenty of new goodies to ogle.

Sea Otter 2024
A look inside Industry Nine's new Solix M hub. The hub uses a 121 tooth drive ring paired with a 5 pawl, continuously phased freehub.

Sea Otter 2024
The Solix M has a very quick .59-degree engagement.

Sea Otter 2024
The hub uses the same size bearings on the drive- and non-drive side.

Sea Otter 2024
There are two carbon and two aluminum wheel options in the Solix M lineup, aimed at XC or light trail usage.

Sea Otter 2024
A look at the internals of Praxis' recently launched Podium pedal.

Sea Otter 2024
Praxis also had this forged piece, an early stage of the process used to create the new Turn stem.

Sea Otter 2024
Smith's new Payroll Mips helmet ($200 USD) is available in six color options, and weighs 400 grams. It's certified to the newer NTA8776 e-bike standard, along with the usual CPSC and CE certifications.

Sea Otter 2024
I'm 99.9% sure Riki works for SRAM, but somehow I always run into him at the Smith booth. This time around, I had him model some stylish glacier glasses..

Sea Otter 2024
The Moraine is Salsa's new Fazua Ride 60 powered eMTB. It has 140mm of travel, a 160mm fork, and a 430 Wh battery. MSRP as shown: $5,999 USD.

Sea Otter 2024
Salsa's 160mm Notch eMTB ($5,999 USD as shown) is powered by a Bosch Performance CX motor and a 500 Wh battery. That's a little less capacity than we're used to seeing, but it will help save some weight at the cost of a reduced range.

Sea Otter 2024
Sea Otter 2024

Sea Otter 2024
Time's Speciale 12 and 10 pedals are now available in two platform sizes - large and small. The larger platform is aimed at enduro riders, and the smaller one at trail riders, but it's really a matter of personal preference - the enduro police won't come and get you if you decide to run a smaller platform.

Sea Otter 2024
The size small Speciale 10 in a nice purple hue.

Sea Otter 2024
We Are One are revamping their cockpit options, and will soon have Canadian-made bars and stems available separately.

Sea Otter 2024
The bars were previously only compatible with We Are One's stem as part of 'Da Package', but now the bars can be run with almost any stem.

Sea Otter 2024
An aluminum sleeve is used to help spread the clamping force from the stem over a larger area, preventing any concentrated stress zones.

Sea Otter 2024
Printed cut marks, dimensions, and the town where the bars are born.

Sea Otter 2024
We Are One's downhill bike is still in development; Mark Wallace piloted his prototype to a third place finish at last weekend's NW Cup race in Port Angeles, Washington.

Sea Otter 2024
Current DH World Champ Charlie Hatton's custom Hayes Dominion brake levers.

Sea Otter 2024
The reverse arch on the new Fox 32 fork really does stand out from the crowd.

Sea Otter 2024
Peaty's new Mushroom Trail lock-on grips will be available in five different colors and in either a thin (30-32mm) or thick (32-24mm) option.

Sea Otter 2024
Peaty's Knurl Race Control grips will also come two sizes and five colors.
Sea Otter 2024


Sea Otter 2024
Wera's Safe-Torque wrench has a thumb lever that's slid to the desired torque, in this case from 2 - 6 Nm. It's a slip-over style wrench, which means that it's nearly impossible to tighten a bolt past the desired torque value, a handy feature for those mechanics that can't resist checking bolts just one more time.

Sea Otter 2024
I could have stayed at the Wera booth for a lot longer... It might have to become a daily stop.

Sea Otter 2024
Now that was a bike... Not a very good one due to the Y-22's URT suspension design that stiffened when you stood up out of the saddle, but an iconic mid-1990s bike nonetheless.




Author Info:
mikekazimer avatar

Member since Feb 1, 2009
1,743 articles

125 Comments
  • 289 2
 Upvote if you want to see a Trek factory team rider race that 1997 Trek Y bike in the dual slalom!
  • 51 2
 Do you expect me to race, TrekFinger? No Mister Bond, I expect you to die...
  • 6 1
 @Shannyla: LOL, 'trekfinger'!
  • 3 0
 It's R-Dog's bike so you should all peer pressure him into racing the DH.
  • 1 0
 @brianpark: Whoa, looks like R-Dog has modded his Y-22 for dual slalom — added a riser bar, shorter coil shock for lower BB + slacker head angle, grippier tires, chopped post, shorter stem, flat pedals, etc. He’s gonna do it, isn’t he?! If he’s waivering, please pass along Pinkbike’s collective “Dooo it, dooo it, dooo it” from all of us =)

www.pinkbike.com/photo/26529194
  • 1 0
 @brianpark: Old bikes rip, by the way =). Here’s riding my 1999 Litespeed Tellico in recent years:
www.pinkbike.com/video/532712

I’d totally race that Tellico or my 2000 Litespeed Owl Hollow in the Sea Otter dual slalom — if they create a vintage category =P

As a side note, the last time I raced Sea Otter was in 1999 with my Fox (clothing) teammate, Travis Pastrana. He was fresh off his freestyle motocross world championship win (age 17, I think) and he finished 3rd or 4th in the stacked Jr Ex category (80 riders or so). I ended up finishing 2nd which made for a good showing for the Fox team. But too bad they weren’t paying me what they were paying Travis! Cool dude though...humble, chill, fast, crazy skills, and just crazy in general, haha.

That 99 Intense M1 was quite a rig, even in the slalom (1999 Deer Valley NORBA, pictured)...I finished second at the Sea Otter DS on the M1, as I destroyed my Rotec slalom bike wheel in practice.
www.pinkbike.com/photo/26536871

But the 97/98 Rotec dual slalom bike was perfect for dialed slalom tracks:
www.pinkbike.com/photo/20234335

I sold that aluminum Rotec and got a former-team steel Rotec frame for $50 — fillet brazed by GT’s Longmont frame shop, as it’s essentially a custom extra-long 17” slalom GT Psyclone. It’s just a stunning bike. It’s currently getting a hub upgrade (DT Hugi Hayes w/54t ratchet to the same Mavic 121 low-profile double-steel-eyeletted 28mm-external rims with silver DT Alpine 3 spokes) and NOS year-2000 Shimano XT 4-piston brakes w/sintered pads & 180mm rotors, along with some fresher (era-ish) Maxxis 50a High Roller orange-stripe tires or similar, and a slightly taller steerer + ground-to-bar height. Can’t wait to ride it!
www.pinkbike.com/photo/26536932
  • 118 2
 Did anyone visit the Kona stand?
  • 34 0
 No-na
  • 52 0
 @HankHank: HEI hei its not a laughing matter
  • 55 0
 Too soon. Those guys need to Process.
  • 24 0
 I heard they packed up their Stuff.
  • 57 1
 I did, but there was nobody there. The Operator must have been busy droppin' a Stinky
  • 22 1
 The whole situation is just Stinky.
  • 9 1
 unfortunately it was pretty stinky there. glad you took at stab at kona
  • 10 2
 @Offrhodes: I think all the Kona employees are gunna be saying "Wah wah" =[
  • 2 0
 stab back
  • 10 0
 I'm kona miss them Frown
  • 5 0
 @SwampThAAng: Good one Dawg!
  • 4 1
 @DizzyNinja: Kona’s early DH bikes were real head-Turners — I’m going to Misser them too:
www.pinkbike.com/photo/25229441
  • 2 0
 there was just some guy there showing off his Unit
  • 2 0
 @lunchbucket: Sounds “Hot”...psyyych!
  • 1 0
 Don't threaten us Haole!
  • 58 0
 Wera going to have to see alot more tools.
  • 24 0
 With all those tools, I might Wera tool belt while riding.
  • 5 0
 Yeah more from the wear stand please
  • 22 0
 Wera One collaboration
  • 2 0
 Wera makes a Christmas advent calendar with tools in it. It's amazing.
  • 2 0
 @WRCDH: Wera do I send the check?
  • 21 0
 Oh I need that Wera toolkit...

/Googles
  • 9 0
 Me too. Surprisingly, the most tempting thing in offer in this list.
  • 5 0
 Wera's tools are ridiculously good. when your philips bits stick in the screw so well that they overpower the magnetic bit holding in the chuck, you've done something right.
  • 2 0
 @groghunter: so does Bondhus that actually makes stuff for ParkTools but cost half. Bondhus, Wera and PT are so far the most precise tools I've tried
  • 1 0
 @peterknightuk: So True! I must buy!
  • 2 0
 I have one that's basically a t-handle version of the kit pictured. A t-handle with a bunch of easily swappable bits. It's awesome. Great for traveling too, as it's nicely packaged and pretty small.
  • 1 0
 They make a bunch of great tools, personally love the hex plus T handle wrenches and 1/4” socket set.
  • 1 0
 @valrock: Guess you've never tried a PB Swiss. One class above the rest!
  • 1 0
 I bought it on amazon plus Wera torque wrench kit
  • 1 0
 @DonaldTee: I did, fit super tight as well as my 25 bucks Bondhus alen key set Big Grin , just used my hex Wera set yesterday first time, perfect fit, but again - as perfect as 25 CAD Bondhus and Wera was 60 Canadian ducks
  • 16 0
 That trek makes me want to go watch a few episodes of "Pacific Blue."
  • 13 0
 I don't need that Wera torque wrench kit in the least. I will be buying it at my first opportunity!
  • 9 0
 So the hub only has one pawl engaged at a time? And one pawl will put an offset load onto the axle?? ….i wonder if that would break an axle???
  • 10 0
 That's exactly what happened to the hydra. Flexing axles start to crack overtime to the point they referred to the axles as a "consumable" item
  • 6 1
 I’m a fan of salsa, own a couple of their bikes, however the choices they made on these ebikes are highly questionable. The notch weighing in around 60lb but they chose a 500wh battery to help minimize weight? Then the lower powered fazua motor (which I would steer far clear of, my local shop told me the same) one with a smaller battery weighs in around 50lb? Yikes.
  • 6 0
 Cable tourism is the cherry on top. Goddamnit Salsa, I trusted you!
  • 3 0
 @rodeoknight: oh man I was already so surprised with the ebike decisions they made I didn't catch the cable tourism. Unbelievable.
  • 3 0
 Their new ebikes start at $5k. They're making their choices to bring the price as low as possible. If you think of them from that perspective, all the component choices make more sense.
  • 3 0
 I am a big salsa fan. I ride a salsa. I have encouraged others to buy salsa. When the ebikes were a little underwhelming I forgave them for it. But cable tourism, that is unforgivable. At least the e-Blackthorn, er moraine doesn't have it.
  • 1 1
 any questions on ebikes is questionable.
  • 9 0
 Finally. It’s settled.

Its WR1, not WAO.
  • 5 0
 Were1
  • 1 0
 Nowwe're2
  • 1 0
 but why not VR1
  • 4 0
 So happy to see a Y-bike in this article! I wanted one bad when I was a kid but just finally fulfilled my dream this last year and yes it is TERRIBLE compared to my modern bikes but it definitely has a way of really spicing up blue and black trails haha
  • 5 2
 The fundamental problem with i9 hubs has to do with their design. Pretty sure this "new" version will still burn up (proprietary) bearings and snap axles (and chew up pawls and drive rings) under harder use. But hey, at least you can match your breakage prone 5Dev cranks to a failure prone i9 wheelset (and failure prone i9 stem) in pretty anodized colors. And if you're going to relive the prettiest (but crummiest) era in MTB parts, might as well hang that stuff from a URT frame.....like that Y bike.
  • 1 1
 I've put about 14,000 miles on a I9 hubs (across two hubs on two bikes). They've been very reliable for me, although bearings don't last forever.

No complaints here.

DT Swiss has also been rock solid, although low engagement. Shimano required annoying service but also worked fine.
  • 1 0
 I’d like to hear more about the stem issues you heard of/witnessed if you have the time. I had the base of one stem (31.8, 30mm) either not machined correctly or somehow developed a stress riser on the bottom side of the steer tube clamp. It had a slight high spot in it that caused the headset to constantly come loose. Plenty of headroom between top of steertube and headset cap. What did you run into?
  • 7 1
 Smith glasses are Gary Fisher approved
  • 1 0
 The ATACs were available in two sizes before...they were called the 12 and 8 and had the same internals. Now SRAM separated the two names by axles instead of size. The 12 indicates that they put a Ti axle on it and you can get it in both sizes and the 10 means a steel axle that you can get in both sizes.
  • 1 0
 I wish I was out there. I used to work in the industry and should have gone to Sra Otter when I had the chance. That Trek Y-bike just shows how far things have come. I bought one of those used, about 1997 and rode it two or three times, then hung it on the wall as art because it looked so cool. I had a small apartment back then, with a huge TREK Y-Bike poster on the kitchen wall. I mounted the entire bike, using the poster as a back drop. I had 3 or 4 other bikes in my kitchen, but no kitchen table. Maybe one year I will go out to Sea Otter, until then I have to rely on PinkBike to bring me all the new stuff from there.
  • 4 0
 The nicest wheel in the world paired with a rusty, bogin 8mm bolt. Nice.
  • 4 1
 Proprietary spokes put me off. Just a ballache when you need one
  • 3 2
 @Inertiatic: I think if you were clever you'd have one or two spare.
  • 1 0
 @Inertiatic: They ship with a drive and non-drive spoke just fyi. Still not cheap or convenient at $7-8 a spoke but I’ve only managed to brake one doing a nasty stoppie on a 24 spoke front wheel in the last 10 years. I unthreaded the long end from the hub (way more convenient than a j-bend spoke unless you get really lucky) and rode it several times before replacing it. There’s definitely something to those spokes (the easiest rim swaps ever, unique ride feel, colors if you’re into that) but if Onyx made a compatible hub I’d be all over that. I think Onyx has a superior design despite the weight. Just food for thought.
  • 4 1
 Buy the Fox 32 and prepare to say the sentence «It’s made this way» about one thousand times.
  • 4 0
 What exactly is a 'continuously phased freehub' supposed to be?
  • 3 0
 As far as I can tell, it means the pawls take turns engaging, rather than all clicking into place simultaneously. I know what each of those three words mean, but I don't know if they can really justify using them to describe this.
  • 2 0
 Exactly. In this case for a 121 tooth drive ring paired with a 5 pawl and 0.59 degrees of engagement (per I9 specs) this means only 1 pawl is engaging at a time.

(Interesting, I'm curious if that puts more load on the bearings than engaging in symmetrical pairs)
  • 1 0
 @grgsmith: Yes it does, and some luck customers also get too much side load on an already loaded axle.
  • 1 0
 probably a clever marketing monicker for "only one pawl engages at a time"
  • 3 0
 “Your fork’s on backwards”
  • 2 0
 I’ve still my Trek Y22 Rst Hi5 forks & Diacompe disc brake on front. lol
  • 1 0
 Nice to See Point1 Podium pedals aka Gamut Podium pedals aka Praxis Podium pedals reimagined. The stem looks a bit like Point1 Split Second as well.
  • 2 0
 Why are some of the Wera bits gold? they look the same - is it just bling? I'm not mad, just curious
  • 1 0
 They also have a different band color than the other cross-tip bits. Maybe one is JIS and the other is Pozidriv? Although the longer ones with the black bands aren't gold... Maybe they decided to color them gold after they started making them and newer production will have all the black bands on gold metal?
  • 8 10
 the whole "stiffened when you stood up" thing for URT bikes is massively overblown. If you look at the pivot position vs the position of the crankset and the rear axle, you can see that the bb is moving maybe 3% less than the pivot (and thus the whole front triangle) would be - resulting in a 3% stiffer/3% less travel when standing - or 97mm travel instead of 100mm which a bike of this era is likely to have.

Thats not to say URTs are the peak of suspension design, but compared to single pivot, a modern URT design would probably be fairly indistinguishable from a ride characteristic.
  • 23 0
 Only one thing is clear to me from your post... That you never rode a 1990’s Trek URT, hahaha =P

But 1999-2001-ish era GT iDrives were good bikes — I think they achieved the sort of performance you’re talking about with their semi-URT dogbone link + rotating floating drivetrain. But URT’s never achieved (nor will likely achieve) that level of performance =)
  • 5 2
 I rode both in the same era - I had (still do) an orange mrXC and a my riding buddy had a trek URT much like the one pictured. The big disadvantage of URT was that you couldn't engineer anti-squat into the bike so it tended to bob a fair amount under pedalling compared to the orange. That is a true disadvantage and a good reason we don't ride them any more (which iDrive also counteracted, through a different mechanism) - its nothing to do with suspension stiffening when standing up.

in my original post I'd meant to write "fairly indistinguishable from that ride characteristic" - the stiffening doesn't make a difference, the antisquat does
  • 12 0
 My Dad owned that exact Y22 in that colour with that spec and I am not here to defend it. Good riddance.
  • 6 1
 @WRCDH: Yeah you're not wrong. I'm old enough to have ridden proper URT's and semi-URT's (Maverick's & I-Drives).
When standing on a proper URT the suspension is having to lift your entire weight each time the shock was compressed. On a non-URT your weight is compressing the shock, on an URT it's stopping it compressing.
Semi-URT's are still some of the best techy trail climbing bikes I've ever ridden. They still suffered from stiffening suspension when descending but the worst bit was the steepening of the HA when standing.
I think a really short link semi-URT (think Maverick) would make a great gravel frame.
  • 2 0
 I'm with you on this, raced GF joshuas for a few years, the effect was negligible. The benefits were constant chainstay lengths (no clutches or short dh mechs back then remember) and good axle path from a long, high pivot, generally quite a strong and stiff rear ends.
  • 4 0
 ....Also shocks blew after half a run, so your suspension never really worked anyway.
  • 1 2
 What are you waffling on about? 3% less movement? What?

URTs are bad because your weight is on the rear triangle, which means it's unsprung weight not sprung weight, meaning the rear triangle can't react separately to where your weight is, meaning, when stood up, it almost locked the rear suspension out.

Imagine having two pieces of wood connected with a hinge, you want to lift one end of one piece while leaving the other on the ground, Which one do you stand on? The one you want to lift or the one staying on the ground?
  • 3 0
 @inked-up-metalhead: You rode one? Its really not that noticeable, at least in the grand scheme of barely functional 90s bikes. In your analogy, i think it would be fairer to say you were stood with your feet spread over the hinge, on a proper bike you're leaning a bit away from the side you want to lift, on the URT, you're leaning slightly the wrong way... its a fairly minor difference, not black and white.
  • 4 0
 The thing I recall about riding URT bikes is the feeling of the bike "folding" in the middle and bars rocking back and forth. The forks sucked and had 60-80mm of elastomer sprung garbage and the shocks worked ok, when the bike compressed, the bars rocked back as the frame pivoted. It felt really unsettling. Also, the pedal bob was annoying.
  • 1 1
 @pbuser2299: I have ridden URTs, yes, and I know it felt like the cranks were solidly connected to the rear axle Vs a full sus that feels like it's not. Yes, it's not like it's a hardtail, but it was closer to a HT than a FS. Are you aware that was the point of the design? To pedal like a hardtail when stood up sprinting? As a half way house between actual suspension that people were wary of? It was intentional that it stiffened when stood up, I don't know why you're trying to deny one of the main features of URT suspension...
  • 3 0
 Y's looked cool, rode like garbage. The whole "braking or standing up stiffens the rear suspension" was bad. Even by the standards of the time, the bottom bracket on Y bikes was too high, so they didn't ride well even seated.

And no, a "blokes in a shed" built single pivot bike doesn't count as modern,
  • 1 0
 @BikesBoatsNJeeps: the one thing I really think of from my days on a Rocky Mountain Speed was that feeling of the bike trying to launch me over the bars if I braked while sitting. Ideally one would have been standing then anyway but in the high post days this was certainly possible.
  • 1 1
 @inked-up-metalhead: Folks, can we take this back to the MTBR forums?
  • 3 1
 where can I find more info about that "new" Fox 32 fork?
  • 1 0
 More Rikki! Hereby nominate Rikki as male model for all Sea Otter random posts.
  • 2 0
 reverse arches won the last XCO, but they werent FOX
  • 2 0
 TY PB Awesome pics, keep it up!
  • 2 0
 Wera u guys?
  • 1 0
 Peaty’s Mushroom-tip look comfortable
  • 1 0
 Will they be as good as the DMR DeathGrip though?
  • 1 0
 @melonhead1145: Hmm, they look very similar/the same. I like my deathgrips and prefer them to the Ergon one's I'm running right now.
  • 1 0
 But does it feel like a mushroom tip in your hands?
  • 4 6
 I'm not convinced that the aluminium sleeve on those bars doesn't cause a stress raiser as opposed to help distribute the stress. I assume their FEA and testing tells them it's OK but just looks a bit suspect to me.
  • 4 5
 Thought this too. All I see is another contact surface where there doesn't need to be one.
  • 9 2
 Rest assured, WAO know more than you about composites engineering.
  • 1 2
 Increased contact surface means the load is spreaded out more. And they made the edges of the sleeve thinner, so you have less of a spike there. It looks like they know what they are doing.
  • 2 1
 If its wider than the stem clamp, then the sleeve will have a little flex, where the stem won't and would concentrate stress?... guessing.
  • 2 0
 @pbuser2299: …yeah it is, and that also allows them to make a slightly softer 33mm bar instead of 35mm. Definitely feel they are less harsh compared to my older 35mm carbon bars.
  • 2 1
 Pretty sure that's just a 31.8 handlebar with a spacer on it so they don't have to make 2 versions of it
  • 2 0
 @stephenzkie: Its a 33mm bar with a 1mm thick sleeve.
  • 1 1
 @mmcvl: They probably do and that's fine, just asking a question as someone who looks at stresses in structures for a living. Not sure why you've given such an abrasive reply to be honest but I guess because PB comments section....
  • 2 2
 never thought i'd say this about any bike but the Salsa Moraine looks kinda looks like an Orange?
  • 1 0
 Has anyone seen if Turnerbikes has new product at the show?
  • 1 0
 Can we get official Hayes brakes like that?!
  • 2 2
 For a year or two there I thought Salsa bikes couldn't get any uglier.

Salsa: "Oh yeah? Hold my beer..."
  • 2 3
 Is there an option to just hide all e-bike content? I don't care if other people want them, I am just happier with my head in the sand.
  • 4 0
 @mikekazimer: Wow I was mostly joking. This is great!
  • 1 1
 You don't know what you're missing until you ride one. They are just pure fun. It's hard to imagine what it's like riding an E-MTB until you put some trail time on one.
  • 1 0
 @DaveJube: Is that the joy of buzzing past my small children as fast and close as possible because you can get one more lap in if you cut corners?
  • 1 0
 Don't look up the price of that Wera safe-torque wrench
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