Production Privée's Steel Full-Suspension Bike Might Last Forever - Taipei Cycle Show
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Production Privée, the Andorra brand known for their steel hardtails that are often finished up in classic race car livery, debuted their first full-suspension bike today at the Taipei Cycle Show.
Damien Nosella, one of the minds behind the company's bikes, said that the 138mm-travel Shan Nº5 has been designed to retain the philosophy of their Shan hardtail, but in a more forgiving, all-around package. ''We’ve fully exploited our experience and expertise acquired since 2011 with our enduro hardtail range to develop this ultra-versatile bike,'' he said of the Nº5. ''We wanted the Shan N°5 to be an excellent performer, to be fun, simple, reliable, and with maintenance reduced to a strict minimum.''
The new bike is built using chromoly tubing; it's not light, but it should last forever.
The 'Bahama Yellow' paint job is a homage to Singer's re-imagined Porsche 911 in the UK.
As you'd expect, the new frame is build using chromoloy tubing, but Nosella did say that it wasn't a 'steel or nothing' sort of decision when he was designing the bike; they were open to using other materials. But, in the end, steel was the material of choice: ''We decided to go the 4130 CrMo route for the chassis. Since the advent of mechanical sports, CrMo chassis’d contraptions have been winning car and motorcycle races every weekend,'' Nosella said in the bike's press release. ''Steel is a magical material with impeccable strength and very high levels of elasticity and fatigue resistance. When used on a bike, incredibly high levels of tolerance and grip are obtained compared with an alloy or carbon chassis.''
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 A single-pivot layout and clevis-driven Fox shock delivers 138mm of travel. |
The Nº5's 138mm of suspension travel is controlled by a single-pivot system and an aluminum yoke that drives a custom tuned, 210 x 55mm Fox shock. Nosella explained that while he could have penned some sort of wildly varying leverage rate that would have sounded fancy, he's gone with a linear progressive setup that he says is all about creating a predictable and easy to understand suspension system. The main pivot is sized the same as a Press Fit bottom bracket shell, with alloy cups and angular contact bearings that he said makes it reliable and easy to service.
And why did the bike end up with exactly 138mm of travel? ''This travel size was not chosen so as to meet the criteria of a specific category, but purely as a way of extracting the maximum amount of pleasure and performance out of the Shan N°5,'' he said of the middle of the road number.
It's main pivot is sized the same as a Press Fit bottom bracket shell.
The bolt-on forward shock mount has been carried over from the prototype.
So, what is the new Production Privee designed to do? A bit of everything it seems, which is a lot like their steel hardtail. Fork travel can sit anywhere between 140mm and 160mm (it has a 65.6º head angle with a 545mm fork length), it's compatible 27.5" and 27.5+ wheels, and the low seat tube will play nice with the new 170mm-stroke dropper posts. Nosella himself is currently running a 29'' front wheel and a 27.5+ back-end, a combo that probably makes for a quick but forgiving ride.
A yoke helps to isolate the shock from torsional forces.
The bare frame sans Fox shock is said to weigh a not too feathery 3.8kg, and the bike pictured here comes in at 14.8kg with its plus-sized rubber and pedals. Nosella stressed that reliability trumped low weight when he was listing out priorities, and that he wants Shan Nº5 owners never to have to worry.
A frame and Fox DPS shock will retail for 1,899 EUR when it's released to the public later in April, but only fifty frames will be built in the first production run. All of those frames will be finished in the 'Bahama Yellow' paint job, a homage to Singer, the legendary company that re-imagines Porsche's 964-chassis 911 cars.
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But I wonder if a steel framed full suspension bike still has the same magic as a hard tail? I'm not saying it doesn't, it's a question. It seems to me that if you put a pivot in the frame, that's going to make a huge difference in how it feels. Not sure if the qualities of the steel frame are still evident to the rider or not. Anybody tried one and have an opinion? I've ridden steel Slingshots back in the day, and loved them too. So maybe that answers my question.
I said this before and I wonder just how low pricing could get for a steel, single pivot frame (like a Starling,so no machined yoke or replacable shock mount to increase cost) if it was purchased in sufficient bulk and used 'off the shelf' machined parts that the manufacturer already makes (headtube, bottom bracket, dropouts, main pivot a bb shell etc) - Nothing fancy and with a simple Monarch RTC3.
Thing is, even if it wasnt too heavy, had great geometry, was cheap and strong people would likely snub such a product unless it had a 'cool' brand behind it.....
Using a shorter shock than perhaps typical can help, you get a larger change in shock angle and leverage ratio through the stroke then but it would be harder on bushings (unless you used a bearing mount but that would take away from the budget / simplicity of something like that)
For now - The Starling is the closest thing to what I am talking about, at £1500 I actually think it is a bargain for a UK made Reynolds frame, but do wonder about what a mass produced 4130 version could be built for.....
But if you are already familiar with the genre, seeing as you're from the UK, I'd say it pretty much performs as a steel hardtail should, great power delivery while taking up the hits without shaking you up too much.
Not much diff between the Gen 1 Shan and the Oka, since I overforked the Oka with the 150mm Pike from the Shan. Might be a bigger difference with the newest Shan due to revised angles. Steeper seat angle in particular might be noteworthy.
Curious.
BUT I'm not excited about a full suspension steel bike. Extra weight, for what benefit? Sure it may (or may not) last longer but, I'm just not "feeling it". It would be like if Enve started making carbon paperweights.
We're all accustomed to "stiff here" and "sway here" in carbon variety frames.
I'd be interested to know how the back end of this tracks. Who knows, maybe a little lateral flex plus a "bob" in turns would feel special. Dig the front gusset too.
What Reynolds do is make a very strong steel which allows them do draw thinner tubing while still being strong enough - this is what allows for 'spring' in a frame.
However, since the intro of modern testing most steel frames are now almost as stiff as alloy ones as they dont pass with the skinny stays which used to make them ride so well.
Stantons are nice and I imagine do help dampen the trail somewhat though, good tubing and design.
Never heard of Starling bikes till now but that 27.5 swoop is gorgeous and sounds like a hoot. This PP also looks super, maybe not in yellow though. Would love to see it in nardo grey.
The beauty of higher grade tubing is it allows more extreme butting / thinner walls to be used due to its increased strength - this combined with the correct diameter gives the springy feeling.
From what i gather though it is gettig hard for steel frame manufactuers to take advantage of this as new test parameters mean they have had to increase chain and seatstay diameters - the hand built guys still use skinny tubes though being i believe exempt from the ruling.
As you say its all in the package and Stanton get it right all round.
I'd love to ride this as a 29er if it takes that!
is it just me? or is there no dropper cable?
not keen on the rear mech cable on top of the chainstay
www.pinkbike.com/photo/14531332
My comment does not show up. (searched for my username on the page, both of the comment modes; score, time. It does not come up. Yesterday my comment was in my dashboard, I followed it back here as it said there were 7 more replies in that thread. But it did not come back to the post in the thread? At first I thought maybe it never did that and I was remembering wrong? Which is why I did the search for my username to find the post. But notta. And to the best of my knowledge that thread is gone too. I searched for several key words that were from discussion in that thread and nothing turns up.
Today my comment does not show up in my Dashboard, but there is the reply. Click that and it comes back to the article, but again not to the comment. So I copied and pasted text from the comment and it does not come up in the search? I the searched for the username of the person who replied to me and I can see their replies to other threads on the page. But not the one in my dashboard...?
Could it be that the thread got to rowdy and was axed???
Anyway, thanks for the article nonetheless...
Mike
Steel full suspension bikes are thing of the past
Why didn't they do a horst link or dual link since they can do those without paying for them now..? Why is it that a steel bike has to also have a lower tech suspension design???
To play devils advocate, a good modern shock makes lever activated single pivots work great! (DW has a couple that people love) And if engineered right the material could offer a slight advantage in compliance over aluminum and carbon? (as many steel hardtails do) Course, it may loose that opportunity in needing to retain lateral compliance etc...? IDK...
There isn't a company out there making carbon bikes that ever promotes durability as one of its hallmarks.
We've been sold on an idea that could have been good. But some sales douches took everything carbon could have been and made it light, expensive, and maybe cool looking.
Not durable.
I know small girls that wear out their carbon frames in a season.
And I've seen every brand broken in some form or another.
Who isn't sick of that crap?
dirtmountainbike.com/bike-reviews/trail-enduro-bikes/starling-murmur-steel-bike-thats-blown-us-away.html
Maybe time for a rethink?
Squats can remain fairly constant throughout the entire travel, compared to most (if not all) multi link layouts. Unless you are Dave Weagle and actually spent a lot of time looking and thinking about it.
But in the end what you end up doing is to try and replicate what a single pivot does, i.e. to have an IC that moves as little as possible.
Leverage ratio on a single pivot is maybe the single drawback, although it can be addressed, and a specific shock setup will help greatly too.
I'd much rather be on a "low tech" single pivot than on a badly engineered (that's the majority of what's on the market IMO) Horst Link or dual link.
And I'd still rather be on a well engineered single pivot than on a well engineered Horst Link/dual link when comes maintenance time.
As for the steel VS alloy/carbon debate, I see steel as more of a craftsman exercise, something that someone skilled and knowledgeable built in his garage to your own specs, that took time, blood sweat and tears to make.
Alloy and carbon are for mass production.
I think here that Production Privée is blurring the line between these two worlds, as it's not garage made but not exactly mass production either, although Asian made.
I've owned carbon frames, alum frames with carbon rear triangles, and they are all shit. Even the boutique high end carbon frames..
This is from a primarily DH perspective, but i'm talking all riding styles.
But your opinion is completely baseless other than your own experience of them being 'shit' (any reason for that?) - Sure if you are a hack and are crashing / coming up short every run a carbon DH bike may not be ideal.
Your statement that you would 'maybe' accept a carbon bar does show your ignorance as this is one of the places many will never run carbon, even if they will run a carbon frame, wheels etc.
Carbon is here to stay, if you dont like it you are not expected to buy it, plenty of other options out there and there always will be.
Plenty of manufacturers making carbon dh bars.
Carbon has less impact tolerance.
Your life is completely baseless other than your own dumb ramblings.
Stating that all carbon frames are 'shit' but bars are OK because plenty of people make them - You then contradict yourself by stating carbon has a reduced impact tolerance (though this entirely depends upon construction and impact type) - Why would a frame with low impact tolerance be no good to you but a bar with the same characteristics acceptable?
Do plenty of frame companies not also make carbon frames, surely by your logic then they must be OK too and not 'shit'? - Its a childish statement, at least have some kind of reasoning to back up the statement.
Enlighten us to how you come about your opinions?
It's a non issue.
How many races get won on single pivots?
Plenty.