Video: How Much Do Professional Riders Actually Make? | Pinkbike Weekly Show Ep. 12

 Now THAT'S a great bumper sticker! Or top tube sticker??

 @christinachappetta: Sticker for a water bottle... my bike costs too much to put a sticker on. It also costs to much to afford a car to put it on. #Priorities

 @mrbobsaget: LOL facts

 Its the same as absolutely any sport realistically - more popular sports are more competitive so just as difficult to reach positions where you are able to earn a living from competing. Obviously more mainstream sports have higher rewards but as I say also much greater levels of competition.

 @justanotherusername: It is what it is, but the "ceiling" in MTB salary is like the bare minimum for being a "pro" in some of the other sports. NFL minimum salary is 750,000. After 3 seasons, they are eligible for around 43k per year when they turn 55. Now, I know that the amount of profit involved in the NFL vs. DHI is equally out of proportion, but it's still crazy to see how other sports "professionals" are treated.

 @Hogfly: yea of course, I did mention that.

Think of how much more competitive NFL is though - not saying these guys and girls aren’t at the top of the sport but the competition for NHL places is absolutely insane in comparison, how many school kids dreams are in NHL vs DH

 @Hogfly: the competition point is a good point. Imagine how much more competition there is in football. There are probably thousands of women who could be better than Vali and thousands of men who could be better than Amaury, as incredible as both of them are. And obviously people grow up loving and playing football and get emotionally invested and become fans and recruit other fans almost virally. Downhill is tiny, super tiny. Ebikes sales are huge, but most of them aren't even MTB Ebikes... Where's the money gonna come from?

Skateboarding blew up because every kid can try skateboarding, but its a victim of its own success in that it's SO accessible that big shoe brands etc just took over, which gives corporations more power over pay again. You can see how un-competitive skateboarding was in the past when you look at how incredible the Olympic skaters are. In one run they do 10 amazing things first try that were the highlight of a video 20 years ago that took 20 tries for 1 trick.

MTBs obviously can't grow an audience like skateboarding or football because it's geographically restricted to trail centers and it's so expensive.

Sooo... Where do you want the pay $$ to come from? It seems limited. I love that it's niche though. MTB is self gatekeeping by its own nature for better or worse

 @justanotherusername: BIG difference is you can making a living being one of the worst players in the NHL/NFL/NBA, etc. You're gonna make more money than you would in the workforce (most likely). You can also play in semi-pro leagues, etc and make a living. Basketball players in Europe make more money than me (probably) and they aren't even good enough to be one of the 450 players in the NBA. Yeah, there is more competition but your chances of making it are MUCH higher as you don't have to be top 5 to make it.

 I think the number of people who's families can afford to support them in order to race MTB is much much smaller than the total population of the world. The ratio of mountain bike riders to pro's is much smaller than most other sports. ie: you've got better chances of being pro in MTB than most other sports , because they aren't so niche.

 @Dogl0rd: It's definitely for the better. Why would we want MTB to become a massively popular sport? I like MTB because it attracts certain type of people, which is the same reason I don't like ebikes. There are so many ways to earn money, earning money doing sport you love is a privilege rather than law.
BTW I am very curious what will industry do about ebikes, they have much grater potential to become popular, yet it seems like no one really likes watching ebike races.

 @lkubica: what a weird way of thinking.

‘I liked the band before it was popular’

I love my ebike, don’t watch enduro racing or ebike racing, they are both boring to watch, I sincerely hope more people start riding, it’s great to see more people sharing the thing that’s been a huge part of my life for years, be that BMX, road, gravel, XC, enduro, Ebikes or the big dogs in DH, it’s all great.

Don’t be a dick.

 @justanotherusername: there's a certain type of people who enjoy being part of a small culture, then there's Swifties lol

 @Dogl0rd: there’s always single speed / fixies for those types ;-)

 @Hogfly: yeah but as others have stated, it's way easier to go "pro" in MTB than it is to make it to the NFL, NBA, etc. Those guys are competing against millions of people for those spots

 @chrisclifford: But there are WAY more opportunities to make money in those sports. You don't have to be top 5-10 to earn a living if you play basketball or hockey. You can be one of thousands of players (NBA, Euro league, etc) that make a solid living off of it (100k+ a year EASILY for those leagues minimum). MTB is not getting that kind of money unless you're one of the top.

 @tvan5: As we are both saying though - every kid in school has a go at basketball, huuuuge numbers of people play for teams at school and amateur level every week, millions of people but only a few make it to the league.

Exactly the same as football here in the UK, every kid plays football, loads of kids play weekend games and lots play amateur level but only the real shit hot players ever make it to a salaried position.

MTB will never get that kind of money outside of the top few and if it did it would be as big as the NBA and the current top riders might not even make qualification as millions would be out there trying their hand at DH Racing for that to happen.

 Just gonna add that while it is still very unlikely, it's not appropriate to use the total world population for your statistic. You want to use the subset of people actually pursuing a career in mountain biking.

 @justanotherusername: Haha definitely an interesting topic... I do wonder how many people would be trying DH cause to most people mountain bikers are "crazy". I think even with more access there would be less people trying a scarier sport like DH compared to something like basketball. But you're right, even here in Canada we have a TON of kids playing soccer, but not many making it... although for most of us I don't think that's the goal lol.

 @tvan5: If as many people worked their whole lives to be professional mountain bikers as people who play football it wouldn’t only be the top 5 making a living.

 @Garradmiller: but they aren't so that's just a hypothetical situation?

 @justanotherusername: It's more like listening to a new music genre in small clubs and then after 10 years seeing everyone dressing like your band and paying $300 for a ticket on a concert held on a stadium with 50k people on it. So it may still be as good but there are many many nice things in the world an not necessarily forcing you to be part of the crowd.

 @lkubica: you are an closet swifty aren’t you?

 @Dogl0rd: If you apply that same logic to car racing, Formula 1 and NASCAR drivers should drive for free. I am darn sure bicycles are more accessible to more people than race cars.

Sponsorship is driven by advertising viewership.

 @tvan5: you brought up there being more opportunities in other sports, I haven’t seen it demonstrated that the ratio of participation to opportunities to make money is actually different. If you want to compare sports have to apply relevant factors.

 @Garradmiller: I am definitely not going to find numbers for this haha.

 @Dogl0rd: I'd be surprised if American football has greater participation globally than mountain biking. The biggest reason for the pay difference is not really how competitive it is to get to the top ranks, it's the viewership that commands top advertising money and/or pay to spectate. And for football it's because the sport has reached cultural spectator status beyond just those that enjoy the sport as participants. It takes time for sports to reach that status.

 @Fill-Freakin: you think more people try out competitive MTB vs American football, really?

 @justanotherusername: Probably depends on what you mean by competitive. But quite possibly. MTB is a worldwide sport (sort of). American football is... well, American. Even in the U.S. I'm not sure how many people play football after they're out of school. There's no doubt that football is a bigger spectator sport than a sport in which people participate. I'd say it's the opposite for mountain biking - more people participate than there are people watching it. And hardly anyone watches it that hasn't at least ridden a mountain bike before. The fact that NFL games fill large stadiums with paying fans and that Super Bowl ads costs millions is what pays those NFL salaries.

 @Fill-Freakin: ooook then. I mean literally every kid going through high school tries out for sports like american football or basketball, likely competes against other people several times, lots complete against other schools etc regularly.

Here are some facts - u.osu.edu/groupbetaengr2367/junran-add-things-here-for-real

In 2016 0.023% of high school american football competitors out of a massive 1 million people made it pro - just 251 people.

Competing in any bike related sport is niche.

 @Fill-Freakin: upturn really a minuscule amount of people who mountain bike race right? And every person who plays football does so competitively. Once their competitive career is over they don’t play anymore

 @justanotherusername: OMG - bad math in that article!!! 1 million kids participated in high school football and 251 make it pro. OK, but not all those kids are in their final year (and eligible to move to the next step of competition). So essentially, they're counting kids multiple times.
That would be like me just adding up all the participants in all the bike races at all levels other than pro and comparing that to the number that enter the pro field each year. Without taking into account that some people race in multiple events.

 @Fill-Freakin: Even if they didn't take that into account, its still 250 per year, is it not?

So shall we say 0.1% at absolute best, assuming they are talking about 5 year groups compiling the million players?

I am a little confused as to how or why you are still attempting to argue that competitive cycling is somehow as popular per person as competing in mainstream sport, its very odd.

 @justanotherusername: You're comparing a sport that is only mainstream in 2 countries. Canada and the U.S.. How many people compete in mtb races worldwide? I don't know, but it's probably a pretty large number. And then you have to compare that to the number that join the ranks of pro MTB to get a ratio. It's a lot less than 250/year I would think. (And no, I wouldn't count a privateer hitting one or two WC events).
And like I said, it's hard to say what you mean by "competitive". Football is a team sport, so by definition it's competitive. So you're essentially using numbers describing most participants of the sport (granted not all of them - this doesn't include non-school leagues), and comparing that number to the number that make it pro. If you included all MTBers that use Strava (and therefore make it competitive), and compared that number to the number that make it pro, I'd bet you find a similar ratio of amateur to pro.
I just don't buy the argument that American football players are getting paid more/deserve more because their sport is more competitive to reach the elite ranks. Ten or twenty years ago, that would have been true. I don't think that's true anymore. Unfortunately, it's really hard to get hard data on the number of participants for the sport of MTB, both nationally and internationally, so we'll have to agree to disagree.

 @Fill-Freakin: No, not many people compete in MTB races worldwide, that's the whole bloody point.

Nobody cares how many compete globally in MTB, that's why you cant find numbers and that's another reason why people are paid much less to compete in it - because nobody competes in it at lower level or watches it compared to mainstream sports

If you still believe as many people try out MTB competitively at low level vs the amount of people that try out mainstream sports competitively at lower level vs how many of them become pro then I just give up.

 Sports!

 @justanotherusername: I'm not sure what makes you think MTB isn't mainstream. Over 50 million new MTBs are sold annually. More than 10 million in the U.S. market alone. It just isn't a mainstream spectator sport.

 @Fill-Freakin: How many of those 50 million 'MTB's' are performance bikes vs stuff that gets ridden once with the kids at the local park?

How many of those people even consider it a sport?

E.g. literally everyone in my family has an MTB, my sister, kids, cousins, aunties etc etc - not one single bike is a performance bike, not one single person has every contemplated competitive riding.

Every garage on my street has a few old bikes in there - not one a performance bike.

You are comparing sports people participate in entirely out out of choice and cycling that most do occasionally to get somewhere or with the kids on a sunny day.

Owning a bike doesn't make you a bike racer.

 @justanotherusername: I never said it does. But then where's the cut off? Everyone that rides on trails? I found some stats that say 22% of British Columbians participated in mountain biking. On trails. That's over 1 million people! That's as many people as the number of kids playing football in high school in the whole of the U.S.! Sure, not everyone riding trails has ambitions to become an Elite racer, but then not everyone playing football in high school has ambitions to play in the NFL! Some just want to play a fun game with their friends. Or think it will land them a girlfriend.
But just as playing football at any level will eventually bubble up the better players into higher level leagues (if they desire), so does every biker that ever timed their ride to compare with their friends on Strava (or any other way) will bubble up riders who are competitive to seek out better competition through official races (if they desire).
But worldwide, there's no doubt there are more mountain bikers (on trails) than there are American football players (total, not just high schoolers). And that's really your pool you have to consider, because that's how people develop the skills to even think about starting to compete. Even Jackson Goldstone likely started with a pushbike on a driveway.

 How true!

 Spot on. Nice!

 Van steenbergen's started from nothing Lmao

 I love posts like this, ones that suggest some kind of insight but are just speculative and quite imaginative nonsense. Just absolutely wild - good for you!

 @henryquinney:

I'm glad you commented, otherwise I would have thought @stravaismyracecourse was a Pinkbike employee providing factual information.

 @CobyCobie: how many layers of sarcasm are you using here to hid the fact that all of this is actually true

 @CobyCobie:

plot twist: they are, and they are simply telling bike companies how they'll get a "Bike of the Year Award"

 @Dogl0rd: It depends on how many layers of sarcasm Henry was using.

 Am I the only one that questions this whole "Exodus" narrtive? Brands come and go every year in racing, small teams change sponsors, etc... If anything it appears like there's been more investment into racing, especially DH. look at Mondraker starting a factory team, intense running their own team and adding MS as a partner, YT expanding, Canyon adding Daprela, some new commencal teams, Norco going big with Greg, Forbidden and We Are One growing their roster, Neko and Frameworks, etc. A small handfull of roders definitely felt the pinch and budgets are smaller for some, but I'd hardly call it a mass exodus. It doesn't seem like anyone is running for the doors and more and more are looking to get their foot in it.

 @davetrumpore: this. There was just more coverage I think at the end of 2023 on teams/riders changing and it seemed like everybody was out. In 2024 it's been all signings because thats how things work. Teams and sponsors were changing as the year rolled over, seems normal to me. I think people are just more focused on it because they hate the UCI and the format changes so much so they are speaking out about it more. That and also the slow death of Enduro has made everything seem worse.

 @davetrumpore: Agreed. Happens every year and seems like there's been more positive than negative news. The big name team changes only make things more interesting and exciting for fans. For DH anyway.

 @davetrumpore: perhaps it’s more on the enduro side (ibis, gt, orange, Devinci, polygon? And more I’m forgetting - many of which never had DH team or also left that), but it does seem an exodus there. That and some significant riders still seem unsigned - Hart among them. Minnaar to Norco but Mark Wallace was axed seemingly. Bernard has also spoken openly about budget cuts and reduced salary. But you’re right - there is an annual ebb and flow but without more data I am just speculating.

 Yes, there simply isn't enough 'outside' money. And that's not going to improve when we only see 6-8 World Cups which have live coverage. What about the other weekends in the year??

MTB companies, teams are folding, yet Road teams are gaining big sponsors and riders are getting big wages.......

As said in the video, any promising young XC rider will attract attention from road teams who can offer more money......

 and make sure we show no data... trust us bro.

Yeah, many make less than a "livable wage" but guess was, as an engineer i made less than 50K for a decade (33-38k if you want to know) and I somehow survived? I even had a bike! And spent countless hours at work. I should've complained to Pinkbike! (they did exist

It'd be good to see the data ranked by experience, type of competition etc. Because I bet you, juniors aren't paid well (and probably more than I was sometimes, for less work and more talent perhaps, but these don't bring any money back.. they're investments), and pros are paid enormous amounts.

Like any sports, you provide very little value as a rider. You get money from entertainment, so only a few make the bank, and it tends to be men (unless its volleyball) because men gets more views. Simple as that. A janitor arguably provides more value to society, yet less money to their employer. The rest is a lot of BS.

 @p1nkbike: very true in the U.K. you can look at the company accounts for pro riders companies. Some have six figure sums of excess profits after all costs and paying themselves. I’m not saying that’s wrong I’m just not buying this poor professional rider narrative

 @jbuzzinco:
The hell with college. Get into a trade. Earn money as you learn. Don't start your career in debt. Make more than most college kids. And if you're really money driven, start your own company.

 To be fair though, it also costs a lot more than a couple bucks to live in BC.

 @christinachappetta: To be really fair, not everywhere in BC is as ridiculously expensive as the Sea to Sky corridor.

 That is the catch, everyone bitches about 'bike shop pricing', but at the same time saying salaries aren't high enough. Most truly talented mechanics either move up to WC mecahincs or TDF side, step away and just work on their own rides with a non-industry job. I am sure there are a few select bike mechanics are really high end shops doing ok. They are the exception, not the norm.

 @bman33: with that example of how a bikeshop works "bitching" seems fair. Im not going to pay $80/ for someone to learn how to wrench on my bike.

My issue is time. I have a shop that has good mechanics that in my opinion are worth their charge, but I can't wait 2 weeks to have a hub adjusted or a BB swapped out.

 @RonSauce: You'd be surprised how much sooner you can get your bike back if you bring in a case of beer with your bike.

 Thank you, I love that idea! We do the "jobs in the industry" roundups but this sounds like a fun addition to that!

 @christinachappetta: there are a lot of creative people and creative companies out there doing what they love, and helping enable others to ride bikes more. It's definitely an industry of passion, but lots of folks make a perfect good living in the bike industry all across NA and the world. It just takes a bit of patience and ingenuity sometimes!

 @jbuzzinco:
But how do we explain sports like baseball ever getting such big viewership? Maybe it's just boring enough that going to a baseball game is just a good excuse for a social outing - the sport in no way takes attention away from conversation.
That, and it makes for good gambling. Sadly, putting money on the outcome makes a sport entertaining to watch even for those who have little or no interest in participating. Sports betting will drive viewership. More viewership, more betting... It's a vicious cycle. Also ruins the lives of gambling addicts. But it will drive up pro salaries.

 Yes. Some credible numbers would be good. You only have to look at the insta stuff to see that the top riders are making very good money from racing

 @chrismac70: Yeah, because nobody on instagram tries to appear more well off than they really are!

 I’m going to reuse that line

 I'm reminded of that tool vs jewel rule every time I look at my ski bases.

 @dlford: especially this winter!

 @jbuzzinco: Bobsledding is a fringe sport. Surfing is a fringe sport. I don't think you can call mountain biking a fringe sport anymore.

 Not true at all. You don't have to race or have a huge IG/YT following to make a living, you just have to be a good businessperson. I know plenty of people making decent money with a damn good life riding their bike. Pinkbike focuses on the racing/influencer side of things when in reality there are way more folks out there doing it differently.