There's likely no way that you've not heard about Specialized's new Demo by now, with loads of coverage from both
the most recent World Cup round and the media feeding frenzy that just went down at Whistler's weeklong bike party otherwise known as Crankworx. In fact, I feel like I've already written a novel about the unmistakable machine from the big red S even though my first ride on it only happened a few days ago. I do, however, also think that I should be forgiven for the too-long essay that I put together earlier this week given that the redesigned bike is a rolling climax-inducing piece of equipment for those who get all hot and bothered by such things. Just look at that new carbon fiber frame and the custom tuned Ohlins TTX shock straight from the land of Vikings and Volvos, and it's also Specialized's first 650B wheeled downhill bike. Oh, and there's that whole one-sided seat mast thing as well. It's all enough to make any true tech dork weak in the knees, or maybe cause a steel hardtail riding Luddite to shake his head and go on about a lack of "soul" and whatnot. Whatever, I have no shame is saying that the 2015 Demo is the most exciting downhill bike in a long time, at least in my mind, but I also admit that, geekery aside, the only thing that truly matters is its on-trail manners.
Want to learn more about the bike before hearing how it compares to its predecessor?
Check out our in-depth piece on the 2015 Demo that covers all the tech, from front axle to rear axle.
This isn't a bike review, but rather an article that aims to provide a little perspective as to not only how the 2015 Demo performs, but also how it performs relative to its predecessor, the 2014 Demo. It's certainly not a shootout in the classical MBA use of the word, but it does probably makes more sense to tell you how I think the new bike compares to the old machine rather than treat it as a standalone review... there's a good chance that you're going to get your fill of exactly that from other online sources, so lets look at it from a different angle. With that in mind, I spent time jumping between a 2014 Demo 8 II and a 2015 S-Works Demo. Both bikes were 100% stock from front to back, meaning that they were running different tires, a different component group, and different forks, but I was more concerned about handling and rear suspension action than how the bikes' running gear was performing. Most importantly, both bikes were size larges, and both ran an Ohlins TTX shock, although the 2015 Demo's TTX sports a unique tune designed specifically for the bike. To be fair, it would have been more ideal to have a 2014 S-Works Demo, as well as some timing equipment so as to really get scientific about all of this, but this first back-to-back comparison is more about my impressions of the two bikes relative to each other rather than an empirical evaluation. Let's look at how they feel on the trail rather than talk about the boring bits like derailleurs, handlebars, and what kind of bottom bracket bearings each bike has, shall we?
The goal was to ride both bikes on every sort of terrain in the Whistler Bike Park that you'd want to point a downhill bike at, and the trail list should bring back a few memories for anyone's who has spent time at our version of Mecca: the rocky and rooty tech of Original Sin, Afternoon Delight and Tech Noir; the tight turns found in Angry Pirate and the appropriately named Too Tight; the jumps and overhead berms of Dirt Merchant. In other words, one hell of a mix of trails, and also a catalog that probably reads like a 'To Do' list for any park rider. So, how do the two bikes compare? Very similar in some areas, but very different in others, as it turns out.
SUSPENSION - While the difference in handling was noticeable within the first few hundred feet of trail - more on that below - there's a much closer similarity between the two machines when it comes to suspension performance. Considering the massive amounts of vertical available by heading up into the Garbanzo zone, a single day in the Whistler Bike Park is more than enough time to gather a good first impression of what's going on back there, and both bikes felt pretty damn equal to each other in that department. Both Ohlins TTX shocks felt comparable, despite the valving update on the new model, and, to be honest, I'd have a hard time saying that the rear end on the 2015 was better in any way over last year's bike. However, Jason Chamberlain, Senior Design Engineer at Specialized, did tell me that they aimed to keep the new bike's suspension behaviour on par with the 2014 Demo, so it really shouldn't come as a surprise that they feel pretty much identical. That's not to take anything away from what Chamberlain and his team has put together, though, as the Ohlins TTX shock feels subtly different from other dampers on the market in how it takes in a deals with the terrain - more damped would be one way to put it, but a clearer way would be to say that it feels just a touch more controlled.
One aspect where the 2015 bike easily trumps its predecessor is when talking about noise - the new bike is really, really quiet, especially compared to the 2014 Demo. A big reason for this is that its rear end is much simpler, with less frame members for the chain to make contact with, but it's also down to how the chain guide is now able to rotate with the swingarm due to it being mounted on the concentrically pivoting chain stay. This means that chain tension stays more consistent throughout the bike's travel, and the result was less of that annoying metal on metal clanging that can be distracting if you haven't gone to town and wrapped up parts of your frame to keep it quiet.
HANDLING - I'd argue that last year's bike was on par for what I expect from a downhill rig in that it's certainly not going to hold any rider back so long as it suits how they ride, but it's also a machine that is quite "lively" compared to some of the recently released DH bikes with longer wheelbases that seem to stick to the ground better when speeds pick up or it gets really rough. That said, Troy Brosnan and Mitch Ropelato both rode 26" wheeled Demos last season with stock geometry and it surely didn't hold them back, did it? The benefit of the 2014 Demo is that it has an animated personality. (edited: a previous version of this story contained an inappropriate comment) In downhill bike terms, it feels like it's nimble and playful, which is great if that's what you're looking for, but it's in complete contrast to what the 2015 Demo's longer wheelbase and larger wheels offer up.
| Physics proves that the bigger wheels carry momentum better, there's no arguing that fact, but for me, an expert level rider who knows that he has a better chance of becoming an astronaut than ever qualifying for a World Cup, the slivers of time that 650B wheels removes from a race run aren't really relevant. |
A fast bike is one that you feel comfortable and confident on, and while the 2014 Demo is certainly a bike that many downhillers feel at home aboard, I personally felt more at ease on the new bike after only a few minutes of riding it. Does that make it a better bike? I'd wager my big toes that it makes it a faster bike, which is exactly what the re-design was supposed to accomplish, and that's an especially important fact for any expert or sport-level rider who will really benefit from the extra confidence that comes from the longer wheelbase and larger diameter wheels. Let me explain... Riding the 2014 Demo and 2015 Demo back to back on the same section of trail showed that the new machine feels less "on edge" when it's especially rough or fast, enough so as to make last year's bike feel a bit more nervous than we would have said had we not been switching back and forth between the two. Improved stability is pretty much what you'd expect to gain from the slightly slacker head angle and longer rear end, and that's exactly what I felt - it's a sensation that simply had me feeling a bit more at ease and in control than I did when I was on the 2014 Demo. That said, I'm not about to tell you that I was going faster due to the larger diameter wheels, as I'm convinced that it's more down to the new bike's geometry than the switch in wheel size. Physics proves that the bigger wheels carry momentum better, and there's no arguing that fact, but for me, an expert level rider who knows that he has a better chance of becoming an astronaut than ever qualifying for a World Cup, the slivers of time that 650B wheels remove from a race run aren't really relevant.
The 2015 Demo is easier to ride faster than the 2014 Demo, that much was pretty clear to me after only a short amount of time on the new bike, but something else was pretty obvious: the 2015 Demo feels like a lot more bike as well. It has a larger presence, and it's not as willing to be picked up and put somewhere else on the trail without a smidgen more coaxing than its predecessor. This isn't news to anyone who's ridden both a 26" and 650B wheeled bike on the same trail, but the difference between the old and new Demo was a bit more pronounced than what I've experienced from the wheel size up'ing on most trail bikes. I don't think that this is going to be an issue whatsoever once a rider gets used to the new bike, although it does take more turn-in effort to snake it through tight turns.
So, what does it all mean? Is the new Demo going to shave thirty seconds off of your race time, thereby giving you enough confidence to ask out that smokin' hot podium girl which then leads in living happily ever after in a big house paid for by endorsements that came from dominating the 18 - 34 expert class? Probably not, but I can see how a racer would go faster on the 2015 machine than on last year's bike, and that's exactly the target that Specialized was aiming to hit. The bike is easier to ride faster when the speeds pick up or the ground is choppy, but it isn't the whippy, playful bike that its predecessor was. How much that matters to you will depend on what you're looking to accomplish, but it's clear that the new Demo is much more race-focused than what it was in the past.
Photos by Amy McDermid
Well done you.
That's pretty much all you need to read. Great article @mikelevy
P.S: I have nothing against the new Demo... its just me tripping right now.
The new bike will help you go faster, and possibly be more confident; but if you have the 2014 Demo and a bucket of spare cash, unless you are trying to win world cups (or local races), you may as well save for a rainy day?
Will the Ohlins TTX be available on it's own? I want one for my SB66
Where can you buy it? I can't find it on the Ohlins website
" much like your girlfriend after a few shots, do pretty much anything you ask of it. "
If the new one feels faster it is probably because of it simply being slacker snd longer, period. It definitely has nothing to do with the inferior concentric BB suspension design Specialized has embraced.... a design that has been tried by other companies and which failed and died every time.
What's next for Specialized, maybe bring back the unified-rear-triangle design and license the Y Frame design from Trek?
Specialized has publicly admitted that they have an inferior frame design in terms of absorbing bumps and maintaining momentum(but the Ohlins super shock makes up for any deficiencies of course). They admittedly did this for the sole purpose of achieving a lower center of gravity. And the Demo still doesn't even have as low of a cog as the Commencal, a bike that has been around for years. Go figure.
Levy didn't comment on any differences in pedaling efficiency, but on paper the new design would be worse because the lower BB produces more chain tension which would make the suspension respond more to pedaling forces. I guarantee Specialized will never use this design on their trail or XC bikes and I fully expect them to eventually give up on the concentric BB design, just like every other company that ever tried it did.
Reinnovate and die.
Also, the new bike having a slightly lower bottom bracket makes the axle path problem of having a concentric BB pivot even worse because it means the axle path travels in an even more forward path instead of rearward path once it gets deeper into it's travel, and the Horst-links barely do anything to make up for it except slightly rotate. .
The design is not only worse at absorbing bumps it is also worse at rebounding from them. Because the axle path is so straight up-and-down (versus rearward) when you are in steep rough terrain it makes it more likely you will get bucked over the bars on the rebound of an impact. Yes the shock has damping to help prevent this but it is still something more likely to happen on a bike with the concentric BB pivot because of It's pogo-stick-axle-path characteristics. The axle path is different from the front suspension axle path (almost completely opposite actually) so it create some imbalance and instability that would make OTB crashes more likely.
m.pinkbike.com/news/troy-brosnan-crash-video-2014.html
Even with all the 'improvements' Gwin still has more World Cup wins on an Enduro than on a Demo. He had about a 70% winning % on the Session and is about 0 for 10 on the 3 versions of the Demo he has raced on.
fanatikbike.com/merchant/1547/images/zoom/DSC_0005-Edit.jpg
Adjective: of or denoting circles, arcs, or other shapes that share the same center, the larger often completely surrounding the smaller.
A rear suspension design that has an axle path the is similar to the from suspension axle path is going to absorb bumps better, maintain momentum better, and have more stability.
Maybe Specialized should design a new fork that has an axle path that is similar to their new frame design? Oh wait, that would work horribly. Hmmm.
Show me actual data based on plotting the real frame's actual axle path (not a rough idea of what some kid thinks it might do) and then I will be convinced. Provide facts not conjecture. I know that's hard for Pinkbike members to do at times, but at least try.
I couldn't imagine a worse design for creating instability in a bike on steep terrain, the constant change of the wheelbase length because of the axle paths going in opposite directions also probably creates significant traction issues with the tires, especially in situations where the rider has both brakes applied(steep terrain). The axle path imbalance would cause the front wheel too surge ahead and lose traction most likely, because of all the weight behind the bike on steep terrain.
I look forward to anyone' s criticism of these ideas regarding the axle path imbalance and the problems it creates.
I disagree that the bike is performing very well. The bike is performing average at best considering the talent they have riding it. If it had the results of the new V10 you could make big claims about this bikes accomplishments, but it doesn't. Gwin still has not win a World Cup race on a Demo after winning over 70% of the World Cup races he raced aboard a Trek Session. I can't help but wonder how many more World Cup wins he would have now had he stayed on a Trek, probably at, probably at least 5. These guys are getting decent results in spite of the new Demo, not because of it.
In two races, the bike has a 4th, 6th, 2nd, 3rd and nothing worse- hardly "average a best". If anything, the old bike simply performs better than the old 26" version. I would concede that most likely. But we can't even remotely begin to say the same thing about the Session. No wins after Gwin's departure with a couple podiums over 2 years is hardly an argument for a better design. Same with Gee's switch to 650b wheels- his season is hardly that what it was last year, must be the wheel size! Same for Stevie- his injury must be the result of a 650b curse! It's all nonsense and rubbish inductive argumentation. Which leads me to always come back to ultimate conclusion- it's the rider, not the bike. Just enjoy the races and awesomeness of all the bikes, but you clearly have a bone to pick with Specialized and that will apparently never go away.
That quote says so much about you, you should have just said: "Don't question the corporations, their marketing is awesome!"
Aww, you don't want to talk about axle paths anymore, do ya? You are a fan boy who thinks its all the rider, nothing about the bike. Suspension engineering is Greek to you and you aren't fluent.
Worst axle path imbalance ever.
m.vitalmtb.com/photos/features/G-Out-Project-Fort-William-BDS-2015,8934/G-Out-Fort-William-Specialized-S-Works-Demo-8,91870/sspomer,2
Awesome. Turns out it has dirt jumper wheelbase when bottomed out!
www.pinkbike.com/news/what-people-are-riding-whistler-opening-weekend-2016.html
(wife) - "Pinkbike must be run by women"
(me) - "and whys that"
(wife) - "because they always write very long articles that doesn't actually answer the question that they set out to answer"!
It certainly doesn't say the new bike is lazy either. Its saying the old bike isn't that much worse. Its a way to downplay the advantages of the redesign. Modern bikes are pretty refined, so there won't be huge dramatic changes in feel year to year like there were 10 years ago.
what else ...that nice 26" fork i bought oh you cant swap that to your new rig the tires are too big ...and for legacy ..."my heatube is too small only a handful of years later"
lol yea it is funny in retrospect but still is going to garner complaints from people for the above and obvious reasons, we dont and shouldn't be throwing piles of money over and over with tech at the level it is at and manufacturing the same. But if we all bought a bike that lasted for 10 years and didnt need improvement, there would be no bike companies to sell us one in ten years time
Hey, want to buy my lid aquarium DC fork! It will fit your old wheels!
Just checked, specialized are doing a production 650b in the old design, its on their site now. So as far as production testing goes, they can actually test the old vs new in both 650B. This would be the best test.
They made a better race bike and for a lot of people, that will translate to being more fun. For some others, it might not be more fun. But that's pretty much how all bikes go.
Of course, someone who's commenting that their "steel hardtail is just fine" in a shootout article about to two 8" travel DH bikes is a troll, even if they aren't being one intentionally, & I should stop feeding them.
The reason people are commenting about steel hardtails is probably because of the comment about steel hardtails in the article.
What you should be wondering, is why in a shoot out comparison article about two DH race sleds, there was a comment about steel hardtails at all...
For a lot of people, going 30 k/ph down a trail with a flickable, playful bike that they can hop roots on, do whips over small jumps, manual with ease and screw about on will be much funner than a bike that will go 33k/ph down the same trail but is too much of a boat to throw around and hop about on.
I'm guessing alot of the problem is that many people don't push their big bikes hard enough to take advantage of when a DH bike feels alive and as flickable as anything out there ( me included too much of the time )
But yeah some times slowing down abit to ride the smaller features can be fun.
Doesn't matter the wheelsizes bike companies are really heading in the right direction in terms of geo, IMO.
www.specialized.com/nl/nl/bikes/mountain/demo/demo-8-ii#specs
Please, do more of these in the future. Seriously.
When will you learn that most of the people here read articles like this in a similar fashion to a Playboy magazine? They are only looking at the pictures.
Maybe a 2014 demo vs a 2015 demo with the previous suspension designs and a 650b wheel would allow the focus to be on the wheel size change and how that effects the bike.
www.pinkbike.com/news/affordable-shredders-from-mongoose-tiocali-amtrailbike-and-bootr-downhill-racer-2015.html
Right yet there have been a total of about 505 astronaut's in the world while 80-100 men qualify per WC race every race every year.....
www.rootsandrain.com/rider47700/mike-levy/results
Insightful review though.
CMIIW.
www.braggibikes.com/2015-specialized-demo-s-works
Norbs got robbed
the new demo is the big big killer himself
greets from austria
If you know what I mean...
Get rid of the cobwebs from the eaves. Put up some shelving in the garage. Build a pumptrack in the back yard. So many things to do, so little alcohol in the house...
Go back up and read the line. Is it necessary to making his point? Is I funny? Does it add value to any member of the bike community? Does it reflect positively on how we see the women and girlfriends inside of our sport, or is it a generalization about how all the girlfriends of the men on this website act after a few shots?
For me, I really pray that this bike doesn't act like a couple of MY girl friends after a few shots -- that would be creepy. They get all weepy and sad and then they throw things. Or me, where I wander the bar and hug strangers.
The above line from Mike Levy did and does perpetuate a rape culture and the misogyny attached inside of the bike industry because he compared a woman (human) and her ability to be manipulated to the responsiveness of an object (bike). Defending it or trying to punch holes in my comment pointing it out doesn't make it any better. It's there, and it sucks, and it does perpetuate a rape culture. Now can we please talk about constructive ways to fix it instead of running in verbal circles?
I 100% love seeing women enjoying this sport, irrespective of whether they're wearing hotpants.
I 100% think women should be treated and paid equally in the workplace, my wife earns as much as I do & deserves every penny of it.
I 100% think any inappropriate sexual harassment is wrong and should be dealt with severely - guess what, I've never raped anyone either.
But making cliched observations about the opposite sex in a light hearted manner is not a problem, at all.
Rape culture is perpetuated by the fact that Mike Levy implied that anyone capitalizing on a girlfriend being drunk to do 'whatever you want' is okay. I'm sorry, but that IS perpetuating rape culture. That IS saying that as long as she's drunk and does 'pretty much whatever you want', that her sober wants/needs/desires have no place. That is perpetuating rape culture. That is contributing to rape culture. It's part of the problem, because that's when our culture says "But she was drunk and they're in a relationship! It's not rape! My god! What an awful word!" That's called rape culture, dualsuspensiondave.
Psychotic, I know.
Secondly, the 'bike culture that promotes' my 'success'? Excuse me? Levy's line has nothing to do with the biking community (or anyone's success within it), which is why it's so inappropriate. Maybe before YOU accuse someone of uneducated accusations and rotate some pathetic auto defenses (borderline psychotic? Really? That's the best you could come up with?), you should check your own perspective of the society you live and operate in. But hey... Those are just suggestions. Feel free to continue to do whatever makes your gears grind.
www.huffingtonpost.ca/toula-foscolos/rape-culture-exist_b_4913727.html
www.vox.com/2014/12/15/7371737/rape-culture-definition
And, yes, @dualsuspensiondave ad hominem attack makes your point. If your point is that you're ignorant.
The answer is no.
Most guys would do most things for that!!!
Toughen the f*ck up and get down from your high horse.
golden.
It's lazy.