Gwin and Brosnan's Custom Demo Race Bikes
Of all the big teams out there, Specialized's World Cup effort seems to be the outfit that's constantly bringing updates to almost every race. This makes them a prime target for Pinkbike's photographers, and their lenses often pick up on something that's out of the norm. A few weeks ago it was the
prototype rocker arm that Specialized machined up to provide more progression and adjustability (
also pictured above) for Troy and Gwin, and this weekend's first World Cup in Lourdes, France, saw PB photographer Dave Trumpore spot yet more modified equipment. This time it's the front triangle of the bike Gwin rode to victory (
as well Troy's bike, presumably), which appears to be sporting some serious mods to the carbon chassis.
Comparing Gwin's race bike to a production Demo (pictured at right) reveals some alterations to the frame around the seat mast area, and it's obvious that while the team made an effort to try and hide this, the rough looking coverup job gives their work away. What's also clear to see is that material has been added to the single-side mast area of the frame from where the rocker arm attaches and nearly up to the the top tube, and assuming the extra material is there to up rigidity would be many peoples' first guess.
It might not be that simple, however, as Specialized's Senior Engineer Jason Chamberlain points out: ''Both Aaron and Troy are testing some carbon chassis mods that may or may not ever see production,'' he said of the odd looking frame alterations. ''And 'stiffer' would be far too much of a simplification of what we are doing.'' Chamberlain could be hinting that the team are looking to tune both amount of flex that the frame provides and how it flexes when being ridden at World Cup speeds.
Take another look at Gwin's frame next to the production version and you might notice that while some material has been added, there's also a shallow channel of carbon that's been removed from right in front of where the rocker arm pivots on the front triangle, presumably to refine
how the frame flexes. I'd wager that you or I would never notice these changes on the trail, but Specialized has the resources to make all sorts of modifications to keep their racers happy. It looks to be paying off, too, with Gwin looking extremely comfortable on his bike and
winning by a gnat's hair under four seconds over Loic Bruni, which really is about an hour's worth of time in today's field.
Photo by Dave Trumpore
It's good to see that Gwin responsed to all the pressure, I knew he had it in himself to rise to the occasion and make up for any deficiencies. Its gonna be an exciting but hopefully safe season.
People who do not realize that the wheels are a part of the suspension on a bike will never have the optimal bike setup.
The only real ways to change wheel stiffness are with spoke count, spoke gauge, bracing angle and of course rim stiffness (material, x-section, thickness)
so... the thing you wrote about wheel stiffness is interesting: my "cheap Chinese" 380g carbon rim with 28mm internal width, FEELS stiffer than my 670g Mavic 729 aluminium rim with similar section. But does it have any influence on actual grip, does properly tensioned wheel with aluminium rim provide any larger tyre patch than a carbon rim? (given same tyre type and pressure, on same bike, with all variables being the same off course)
Congratulations for the winning race BTW!
Scroll down to "Vertical Compliance":
www.noxcomposites.com/wheel_building
Punchline? The engineers at Nox don't believe that the tiny variance in vertical rim compliance is a meaningful part of the equation compared to tire casing deflection.
Moreover you could discuss the issue of vertical compliance in the "snakebite" case, where more compliance (= bending of the rim) could safe you a flat tire
As to off cambers or rockgardens, talking rims alone, the rim lateral stiffness does not play as much role as rim width, eventually combined with tyre size and casing type. Wide rims that I tried 24mm and 29mm are hands down, absolutely superior to other ones I had like XC717 (17mm internal) or Mavic Crossmax ST (19mm) when it comes to tracking on off-cambers and in rockgardens because tyre stops acting like a jelly spring. Given the same tyre pressure, and type, a rock hit at an angle may deflect the wheel with narrower softer rim less than a stiff wide rim, BUT the moment that tyre touches the ground again and rim, then whole bike, finaly you, cushions on it - is a totaly different story. Wide rim will keep things relatively in line while narrow rim will slide on tyre side to side for some good half of an inch or more, negatively affecting your balance. I will never forget my first ride on xc717 rims with thin nobby nics on, holy sht... Another detail about rim stiffness - go ride those cheese ZTR rims like Crest or Arch Ex on a 29er and tell me how do you like dynamic cornering with them, hit some berms with them!
I can only comment of fork stiffness though - my shiver sc 120 is a freaking GOD of off cambers. I did one shitty rooty off camber with it on high line in wet, that i barely hold on to in dry on 36, in wet I always get tossed to the low line.
Randoms - A wider rim creates a bigger tire, allowing you to lower your pressure. Carbon rims generally are stiffer laterally that alloy rims. Vertical compliance is so great on bicycle wheels that you can't really tell the difference compared to tire deflection - Nox article was correct. Lateral stiffness is where you notice differences in rim width, material, etc.
There is nowhere to hide in DH, you don't get lucky and win a world cup round. The best rider on the day won. And he won by a LOT!
I'm not casting aspersions, I couldn't care less! Actually it makes it the most exciting sport in the world, because even 10 years later, you're still not sure who won!
I read that the next placed rider on many of lances wins who had no association with doping was 13th!!!!!
I've no idea why the average roadie gets offended anyway, they are as far removed from the TDF as I am from the DH WC!
Second, no one who actually understands road cycling gets personally "offended" by doping jokes, most are just sick to death of knee-jerk insinuations that come from every ignoramus who hears you occasionally ride a bike on pavement: it's like being in the housing & insurance sector and hearing the same AIG joke being flogged for the millionth time.
As for performance enhancement, it is incredibly naive to think that DH has any less going on than any other sport. HGH, cortisone, & steroids will benefit a downhiller just as much as they do a downhill skier or track & field sprinter.
Skill is what makes you a pro, but as Claudio said during the Lourdes broadcast, to run your suspension harder than other pros like Gwinn does, you have to be strong enough to hold on.
I'm not pointing a finger at any rider in particular, just underlining the sober fact that modern drugs are *extremely* effective, and the science of avoiding detection is always one step ahead of the testers. At the highest level of sport, PEDs provide an incremental boost that makes a winning difference, that's why they're used.
spesh should produce 10 frames with the mods.
they can charge whatever they want for the frame (20k+), but as long as its homologated thatd be alright.
not that there is one, but if it gets bad it might help.
personally i enjoy road racing, but the races are endurance races, not sprints. its like rallye vs 24 hrs lemans, two totally different styles of racing, but each enjoyable for their own reasons.
all out razors edge craziness vs unflappable consistency as well as mechancal and human endurance.
i just think it puts smaller teams at at least a slight disadvantage if larger teams can constantly modify their bikes to give them a competitive advantage.
also did anyone notice the raceface crank booties on this years bike? interesting. also it looks like the whole rear triangle has had some kind of layup mods done to it, not just the front triangle.
The UCI rule that all gear used by road pros must be production model is largely ignored by the industry as it is written so vaguely that it is toothless. The rule states that a model must be "available" to the public, but does not place any cost or quantity constraints. The British National team, which runs what amounts to a Formula-1-level factory-works program, "complies" with the rule by offering their track & TT bikes for sale to the public on a skeleton website which says they make no guarantees about lead times, availability, & only mentions price to suggest that if you have to ask, you can't afford it. Even the biggest mass-manufacturers are constantly doing special layups or even creating brand new, $50,000 molds to build just a single frame for a star like Tom Boonen that no amount of consumer money can buy.
Punchline for Downhill? The sport is so heavily predicated on athletic talent that, fortunately, even a cost-is-no-object Formula-1 style R&D program would not give any one team an insurmountable edge. Imagine, however, if someone came & hired Gwin, Atherton, Bryceland, Brosnan, Hill & Mulaly to ride for a single team at *double* their current salary? This is not an uncommon occurrence in road cycling.
Cookson, the new UCI president elected last year, actually took the "radical" step of implementing a new rules committee that actually incorporates industry engineers. They still have yet to revamp decades of reactionary regulation, but it's at least a signal that reason has been introduced into what used to be a strictly dogma-driven equation.
1. Authoritative reviews of how a product which isn't even out yet totally sucks!
2. Pointing out how the new product/technology is exactly like something superficially similar that came out in 1987
3. Conspiracy theories about how the new item/design/technology is just a marketing ploy to make current bikes obsolete.
4. Complaints about how much new bike stuff costs.
5. Complaints about how the author of the article is unethically pandering to company who produced the product.
Look! I am meta-meta-trolling - I complain on people complaining on people who tend to complain on products. Interstellar inception that is!
But really, I'm bummed that you feel the need to chime in all the time.
Look! I'm meta-meta-meta trolling. WHERE DOES IT STOP!?
The chain stay has some hand written notes on it as well. Maybe it's an entire frame with custom longer geometry. That track looked really steep. Gwin even said there weren't many turns on it. For the old Mt Snow, Vermont course, I'd hear stories of a few places making a bike just for that course.
For us mortals however, we DO NOT need these fine adjustments, which is why I think all these new "standards" that have wormed their way out of the racing circuit should f*cking stay there. It drives prices up and it makes us constantly have to upgrade. It f*cks me off the state of the MTB scene these days, there's new standards coming in all the time we don't need, it's almost as if the big brands want to con you out of all your money, "you need this new mech, you need this cassette, oh what's that? Mid range product? NO! YOU NEED THE HIGH END CARBON FIBER VERSION OF THAT!!"
If this were MGP, WSBK, or AMASX, each rider would have a box full of dogbones etc to change the linkage rate. No different than shock/fork springs.
Maybe they do...
As far as the frame goes, I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if they added material around that area to simply strengthen it.
It was a pretty bumpy course, and that area can take a lot of stress.
(That's a joke, in case some of you may get sensitive)
Looked in the other article, but it isn't mentioned: www.pinkbike.com/u/mikelevy/blog/aaron-gwins-modified-specialized-demo.html
which was a valid criticism for the Demo as a choice for many amateur riders:-not going fast enough, on gnarly enough tracks to make the bike come alive.
cdn1.coresites.mpora.com/dirt_new/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Aaron-Gwin-is-looking-fast-and-characteristically-cool.-The-American-was-taking-his-time-to-study-every-line-yesterday-and-were-sure-that-hell-be-a-contender-for-the-win.-1020x680.jpg
Who cares, go out and ride instead of reading this bs.
Anyway, being a Croatian have you ever ridden on Brac? Any good riding there?
In the homepage title
For f*cks sake. I havent watched it yet
I knew that I had to be in Compton soon.
I got to get drunk before my day beGwins.
Before my mom starts bitchin' about my friends."
I woke up late then went straight to Pinkbike I never saw any spoilers. But it was obvious from the start of the show that Gwin had straight up slayed it.