DEMO vs DEMO - Is Newer Better?

Aug 18, 2014
by Mike Levy  
There's likely no way that you've not heard about Specialized's new Demo by now, with loads of coverage from both the most recent World Cup round and the media feeding frenzy that just went down at Whistler's weeklong bike party otherwise known as Crankworx. In fact, I feel like I've already written a novel about the unmistakable machine from the big red S even though my first ride on it only happened a few days ago. I do, however, also think that I should be forgiven for the too-long essay that I put together earlier this week given that the redesigned bike is a rolling climax-inducing piece of equipment for those who get all hot and bothered by such things. Just look at that new carbon fiber frame and the custom tuned Ohlins TTX shock straight from the land of Vikings and Volvos, and it's also Specialized's first 650B wheeled downhill bike. Oh, and there's that whole one-sided seat mast thing as well. It's all enough to make any true tech dork weak in the knees, or maybe cause a steel hardtail riding Luddite to shake his head and go on about a lack of "soul" and whatnot. Whatever, I have no shame is saying that the 2015 Demo is the most exciting downhill bike in a long time, at least in my mind, but I also admit that, geekery aside, the only thing that truly matters is its on-trail manners.

Want to learn more about the bike before hearing how it compares to its predecessor? Check out our in-depth piece on the 2015 Demo that covers all the tech, from front axle to rear axle.






This isn't a bike review, but rather an article that aims to provide a little perspective as to not only how the 2015 Demo performs, but also how it performs relative to its predecessor, the 2014 Demo. It's certainly not a shootout in the classical MBA use of the word, but it does probably makes more sense to tell you how I think the new bike compares to the old machine rather than treat it as a standalone review... there's a good chance that you're going to get your fill of exactly that from other online sources, so lets look at it from a different angle. With that in mind, I spent time jumping between a 2014 Demo 8 II and a 2015 S-Works Demo. Both bikes were 100% stock from front to back, meaning that they were running different tires, a different component group, and different forks, but I was more concerned about handling and rear suspension action than how the bikes' running gear was performing. Most importantly, both bikes were size larges, and both ran an Ohlins TTX shock, although the 2015 Demo's TTX sports a unique tune designed specifically for the bike. To be fair, it would have been more ideal to have a 2014 S-Works Demo, as well as some timing equipment so as to really get scientific about all of this, but this first back-to-back comparison is more about my impressions of the two bikes relative to each other rather than an empirical evaluation. Let's look at how they feel on the trail rather than talk about the boring bits like derailleurs, handlebars, and what kind of bottom bracket bearings each bike has, shall we?

Specialized Demo geometry comparison
  The old Demo's geometry is shown on the left, the new Demo's on the right. Note the disparity in wheelbase between the two, a difference that comes from the 2015 Demo's longer chain stays and slightly slacker head angle.




The goal was to ride both bikes on every sort of terrain in the Whistler Bike Park that you'd want to point a downhill bike at, and the trail list should bring back a few memories for anyone's who has spent time at our version of Mecca: the rocky and rooty tech of Original Sin, Afternoon Delight and Tech Noir; the tight turns found in Angry Pirate and the appropriately named Too Tight; the jumps and overhead berms of Dirt Merchant. In other words, one hell of a mix of trails, and also a catalog that probably reads like a 'To Do' list for any park rider. So, how do the two bikes compare? Very similar in some areas, but very different in others, as it turns out.


SUSPENSION - While the difference in handling was noticeable within the first few hundred feet of trail - more on that below - there's a much closer similarity between the two machines when it comes to suspension performance. Considering the massive amounts of vertical available by heading up into the Garbanzo zone, a single day in the Whistler Bike Park is more than enough time to gather a good first impression of what's going on back there, and both bikes felt pretty damn equal to each other in that department. Both Ohlins TTX shocks felt comparable, despite the valving update on the new model, and, to be honest, I'd have a hard time saying that the rear end on the 2015 was better in any way over last year's bike. However, Jason Chamberlain, Senior Design Engineer at Specialized, did tell me that they aimed to keep the new bike's suspension behaviour on par with the 2014 Demo, so it really shouldn't come as a surprise that they feel pretty much identical. That's not to take anything away from what Chamberlain and his team has put together, though, as the Ohlins TTX shock feels subtly different from other dampers on the market in how it takes in a deals with the terrain - more damped would be one way to put it, but a clearer way would be to say that it feels just a touch more controlled.

2015 Specialized Demo vs 2014 Specialized Demo
  The old Demo, ridden in the photo on the left, was a bit more nervous when letting it roll over rough ground.


One aspect where the 2015 bike easily trumps its predecessor is when talking about noise - the new bike is really, really quiet, especially compared to the 2014 Demo. A big reason for this is that its rear end is much simpler, with less frame members for the chain to make contact with, but it's also down to how the chain guide is now able to rotate with the swingarm due to it being mounted on the concentrically pivoting chain stay. This means that chain tension stays more consistent throughout the bike's travel, and the result was less of that annoying metal on metal clanging that can be distracting if you haven't gone to town and wrapped up parts of your frame to keep it quiet.


HANDLING - I'd argue that last year's bike was on par for what I expect from a downhill rig in that it's certainly not going to hold any rider back so long as it suits how they ride, but it's also a machine that is quite "lively" compared to some of the recently released DH bikes with longer wheelbases that seem to stick to the ground better when speeds pick up or it gets really rough. That said, Troy Brosnan and Mitch Ropelato both rode 26" wheeled Demos last season with stock geometry and it surely didn't hold them back, did it? The benefit of the 2014 Demo is that it has an animated personality. (edited: a previous version of this story contained an inappropriate comment) In downhill bike terms, it feels like it's nimble and playful, which is great if that's what you're looking for, but it's in complete contrast to what the 2015 Demo's longer wheelbase and larger wheels offer up.
bigquotesPhysics proves that the bigger wheels carry momentum better, there's no arguing that fact, but for me, an expert level rider who knows that he has a better chance of becoming an astronaut than ever qualifying for a World Cup, the slivers of time that 650B wheels removes from a race run aren't really relevant.

A fast bike is one that you feel comfortable and confident on, and while the 2014 Demo is certainly a bike that many downhillers feel at home aboard, I personally felt more at ease on the new bike after only a few minutes of riding it. Does that make it a better bike? I'd wager my big toes that it makes it a faster bike, which is exactly what the re-design was supposed to accomplish, and that's an especially important fact for any expert or sport-level rider who will really benefit from the extra confidence that comes from the longer wheelbase and larger diameter wheels. Let me explain... Riding the 2014 Demo and 2015 Demo back to back on the same section of trail showed that the new machine feels less "on edge" when it's especially rough or fast, enough so as to make last year's bike feel a bit more nervous than we would have said had we not been switching back and forth between the two. Improved stability is pretty much what you'd expect to gain from the slightly slacker head angle and longer rear end, and that's exactly what I felt - it's a sensation that simply had me feeling a bit more at ease and in control than I did when I was on the 2014 Demo. That said, I'm not about to tell you that I was going faster due to the larger diameter wheels, as I'm convinced that it's more down to the new bike's geometry than the switch in wheel size. Physics proves that the bigger wheels carry momentum better, and there's no arguing that fact, but for me, an expert level rider who knows that he has a better chance of becoming an astronaut than ever qualifying for a World Cup, the slivers of time that 650B wheels remove from a race run aren't really relevant.

2015 Specialized Demo vs 2014 Specialized Demo
  One rocky corner, two very different bikes. I felt like I went faster through here on the 2015 Demo, but the gap closed as the corners got tighter.


The 2015 Demo is easier to ride faster than the 2014 Demo, that much was pretty clear to me after only a short amount of time on the new bike, but something else was pretty obvious: the 2015 Demo feels like a lot more bike as well. It has a larger presence, and it's not as willing to be picked up and put somewhere else on the trail without a smidgen more coaxing than its predecessor. This isn't news to anyone who's ridden both a 26" and 650B wheeled bike on the same trail, but the difference between the old and new Demo was a bit more pronounced than what I've experienced from the wheel size up'ing on most trail bikes. I don't think that this is going to be an issue whatsoever once a rider gets used to the new bike, although it does take more turn-in effort to snake it through tight turns.




So, what does it all mean? Is the new Demo going to shave thirty seconds off of your race time, thereby giving you enough confidence to ask out that smokin' hot podium girl which then leads in living happily ever after in a big house paid for by endorsements that came from dominating the 18 - 34 expert class? Probably not, but I can see how a racer would go faster on the 2015 machine than on last year's bike, and that's exactly the target that Specialized was aiming to hit. The bike is easier to ride faster when the speeds pick up or the ground is choppy, but it isn't the whippy, playful bike that its predecessor was. How much that matters to you will depend on what you're looking to accomplish, but it's clear that the new Demo is much more race-focused than what it was in the past.


Photos by Amy McDermid

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309 Comments

  • + 525
 im not reading all that
  • + 209
 Just waiting for good comments...
  • + 280
 You're not reading a relatively short and informative article, about a topical subject?
Well done you.
  • + 68
 Real insightful man, it's 5 minutes of reading.
  • + 188
 "The bike is easier to ride faster when the speeds pick up or the ground is choppy, but it isn't the whippy, playful bike that its predecessor was. How much that matters to you will depend on what you're looking to accomplish, but it's clear that the new Demo is much more race-focused than what it was in the past."

That's pretty much all you need to read. Great article @mikelevy
  • - 18
flag vineet (Aug 18, 2014 at 1:08) (Below Threshold)
 It feels like T-101 got converted into T-1000 (advanced prototype), but without mimetic poly-alloy. I reckon 8 out of 10 people love model 101. In other words, I will still be more than happy if I get a 2007 Demo. I dont mind 2012/13 either. Hope they can become cheaper.
P.S: I have nothing against the new Demo... its just me tripping right now.
  • + 57
 ^^ Not sure if world's most elaborate Forum-bot or not
  • + 8
 Yeah, good comparison, but a little bit of jargon too.

The new bike will help you go faster, and possibly be more confident; but if you have the 2014 Demo and a bucket of spare cash, unless you are trying to win world cups (or local races), you may as well save for a rainy day?

Will the Ohlins TTX be available on it's own? I want one for my SB66
  • + 4
 It already is, with special tunes for most popular dh racebikes.
  • - 5
flag waxyfeet (Aug 18, 2014 at 1:41) (Below Threshold)
 feebles - isn't it just the Italian Ohlins Distro doing it?
  • + 41
 Pinkbike should know by now... You gotta make a video.
  • + 5
 Maybe the 2014 will make you more confident and then it will be faster? It also sounded like lots of the improvements could be down to the wheel size. They need to get the 650b 2014 bikes the team were on and test that against this, also a v10c 650b would be a good test too.
  • - 9
flag Slash9 (Aug 18, 2014 at 2:06) (Below Threshold)
 Too many words, they had it covered with the title!
  • + 0
 Shit gets loose
  • + 3
 @feeblesmith

Where can you buy it? I can't find it on the Ohlins website
  • + 10
 funny how everything next year is always better than last years or currently, marketing ploy.
  • + 2
 And thankyou.
  • + 22
 If you can't take five minutes to read that, please don't comment.
  • + 17
 It's actually a good read
  • + 1
 It is
  • + 15
 not reading means you missed this tid bit


" much like your girlfriend after a few shots, do pretty much anything you ask of it. "
  • + 12
 Omg that part was the best, I also liked how this guy didn't say we should all just go out and buy 650bs
  • - 4
flag joshirwin1406 (Aug 18, 2014 at 7:36) (Below Threshold)
 I lost interest in this article the moment I saw the words "Specialized"
  • - 7
flag ctmtb98 (Aug 18, 2014 at 7:43) (Below Threshold)
 Booooooo, specialized was awesome last year but they aren't
  • - 2
 V-10 is better!!!
  • + 7
 I rode the v-10 but preferred demo 8 by a lot
  • + 5
 great read. pretty honest takein that it still is the rider's choice that matters most and the wheel debate is just that..a debate not an an end-all
  • + 2
 the reason i clicked this link is just to read the comment section
  • + 17
 Why does the post promoting ignorance (in not wanting to read something) get upvoted? PB lol.
  • + 5
 Ignorance is the majority here.....not sure when it happened exactly.......some years ago now
  • + 4
 If your girlfriend needs a few shots to do as you ask, find another girfriend!
  • + 6
 Great idea for the article, hope they do this for the V10
  • + 3
 Ah.. You are still in the picture book phase of life it seems..
  • + 1
 @viatch do you think they should make the bikes worse every year? I mean the point of making a new bike is that it's supposed to be better
  • + 1
 Scrolled all the way down up to here
  • + 1
 That comment nailed it! Nice.
  • + 1
 As has been said, the demo used to be a bit of a do-it-all gravity bike. I think now they've made the Demo a specifically race-oriented bike that opens up a gap in the line up for Spesh to produce a FR/Park specific bike... I wonder if the status will step in to fill that... or will there be something completely new on the way?
  • + 2
 I read the "old" Demo will still be sold, albeit with 650b wheels, but nevertheless ... it will be interesting to see if the Specialized freeride dudes like Berrecloth and Hunter stay on "old" Demo's or start hucking the new race bike.
  • + 115
 this is like comparijng the dump i took an hour ago , to the dump i took last week
  • + 240
 The new one was faster but the old one was more fun?
  • + 13
 @panaphonic: made my day.
  • - 14
flag Willie1 (Aug 18, 2014 at 6:31) (Below Threshold)
 The new one is faster, and the old one is more nervous. So now nervous bikes are fun bikes? I didn't know that.
  • + 2
 Wrong playful and nervous are 2 completely different things, a nervous bike is skittish at best and will hold you back a playful bike wants to be pushed and flicked etc
  • + 0
 The old Demo was a twitchy bike, the too-short stays and shorter wheelbase made it sketchy for some DH tracks but easier to manuever in the air or in quick bermed corners.

If the new one feels faster it is probably because of it simply being slacker snd longer, period. It definitely has nothing to do with the inferior concentric BB suspension design Specialized has embraced.... a design that has been tried by other companies and which failed and died every time.

What's next for Specialized, maybe bring back the unified-rear-triangle design and license the Y Frame design from Trek?

Specialized has publicly admitted that they have an inferior frame design in terms of absorbing bumps and maintaining momentum(but the Ohlins super shock makes up for any deficiencies of course). They admittedly did this for the sole purpose of achieving a lower center of gravity. And the Demo still doesn't even have as low of a cog as the Commencal, a bike that has been around for years. Go figure.

Levy didn't comment on any differences in pedaling efficiency, but on paper the new design would be worse because the lower BB produces more chain tension which would make the suspension respond more to pedaling forces. I guarantee Specialized will never use this design on their trail or XC bikes and I fully expect them to eventually give up on the concentric BB design, just like every other company that ever tried it did.
Reinnovate and die.
  • + 14
 Playful bikes are nervous when ridden at proper dh speeds and proper dh terrain. If you think your playful bike is stable at speed you're not going fast enough.
  • + 8
 Protour, but the other "flawed" designs did not use a horst link, so it's not at all apples to apples. You have got such an anti-Specialized filter that you interpret their testing of every other frame as "admitting they have an inferior design" when that was not at all what they were talking about. They mentioned that their design, especially when coupled with an Ohlins shock (which was I bet a great part of them doing that was emphasizing that they are the ones that have it stock on their bikes) they are for sure competitive with every other design, despite constant claims that they are out-dated. The out-dated claim is just as ridiculous since they have kept revising the design over the years, just as VPP has been evolving since 1996, along with numerous versions of the DW link, and the myriad of multi-linkage single pivots out there.
  • + 3
 Playful and nervous are the same end of the spectrum. You choose the term based on whether you want it to sound good, or bad.
  • + 4
 Kona has lately demonstrated the holistic layout of short chainstays, low bottom bracket, long top tube, slack head angle, and short stem makes sense. That combined with 650b wheelsize is very much the latest trend we're seeing. Similarly on the Demo, this probably helps with that twitchy behavior of previous models. Also since the larger wheels have similar effect as more suspension and slacker head angle, that would factor in too. It's like adding another inch of travel and kicking out the head angle another degree. Also the bottom bracket height drops 4mm from 347mm to 343mm which has you perched deeper inside the bike. Not surprising the new one feels more planted.
  • + 3
 Willie1 , spot on.
  • - 1
 KaBrap, I didn't say the design was outdated, my main point is that it isn't as effective as other designs at absorbing bumps and maintaining momentum.

Also, the new bike having a slightly lower bottom bracket makes the axle path problem of having a concentric BB pivot even worse because it means the axle path travels in an even more forward path instead of rearward path once it gets deeper into it's travel, and the Horst-links barely do anything to make up for it except slightly rotate. .

The design is not only worse at absorbing bumps it is also worse at rebounding from them. Because the axle path is so straight up-and-down (versus rearward) when you are in steep rough terrain it makes it more likely you will get bucked over the bars on the rebound of an impact. Yes the shock has damping to help prevent this but it is still something more likely to happen on a bike with the concentric BB pivot because of It's pogo-stick-axle-path characteristics. The axle path is different from the front suspension axle path (almost completely opposite actually) so it create some imbalance and instability that would make OTB crashes more likely.

m.pinkbike.com/news/troy-brosnan-crash-video-2014.html

Even with all the 'improvements' Gwin still has more World Cup wins on an Enduro than on a Demo. He had about a 70% winning % on the Session and is about 0 for 10 on the 3 versions of the Demo he has raced on.
  • + 6
 Protour face it- you have ZERO idea about how this axle path behaves given how the other pivots operate in conjunction with the concentric BB. All you have is pure speculation and conjecture based on opinion, not at all based on fact or data concerning the new Demo. Brosnan's crash has as about as much to do with the suspension design as does the ambient air temperature during his fall- none. He got caught in a rock garden and fell because of user error, which is the cause for almost all mistakes that separate first from second from third. Brosnan and Gwin have had an awesome season on board the Enduro and two versions of a 650b Demo, all which prove one thing- it is the rider not the bike. And to have the new bike be on the podium at its first two races should only say that it is a proven World Cup bike- any bike that achieves this is so. The machine is totally capable, the riders just have to be flawless, or at the least make the fewest mistakes, in order to win, which they admittedly did not do. If the Session was God's gift to the mountain bike world, you would seeing it wining under different pilots. Oh wait, that hasn't happened at all since Gwin stopped riding one. And it has nothing to do with the bike but instead with the rider who is pedaling it.
  • + 3
 protour, you're fixating on a single part of the design. Remember Chamberlain said he moved things down 3" from previous model. The chainstay pivot moved.. but it's still FSR - that didn't change. Consider the links just in front of the rear axle that are comparatively longer and locate the stays (probably 3") lower. It might even have better square edge compliance this way. The devinci wilson uses a concentric BB, but like the new demo, there is more to the design to consider. Sum of the parts.
  • + 2
 ^the wilson uses a concentric rear axle pivot (similar to Trek), nota concentric BB
  • + 1
 Reading this while taking a dump makes it all the better.
  • + 2
 ka-brap, I was referring to the bearings surrounding the BB. But good point, that rear axle is concentric too.

fanatikbike.com/merchant/1547/images/zoom/DSC_0005-Edit.jpg

Adjective: of or denoting circles, arcs, or other shapes that share the same center, the larger often completely surrounding the smaller.
  • + 3
 I'm aware of what concentric means Wink but thanks for pointing that out on the Devinci, I failed to notice that! When I was thinking "concentric BB" ala the Specialized P-Slope or Rotec RL9.
  • + 1
 interesting 2015 demo simulation: www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2gZ0aulUt0
  • - 1
 Thanks for posting that simulation esstinkay, watching it backs up everything I claimed about the instability the rear axle path creates. When you watch it you can see the instability created from the differences in the front and rear axle paths as it goes over rough terrain. I would call this axle path imbalance. When the rear suspension compresses significantly it causes the wheelbase to shorten dramatically as it is going over rough terrain, just watching it you can see how it would create an unstable ride in steep, rough terrain. Especially in steeper terrain, because the effect of the angle of the rear suspension rebound is exaggerated. And all this for a lower center of gravity? Rubbish.

A rear suspension design that has an axle path the is similar to the from suspension axle path is going to absorb bumps better, maintain momentum better, and have more stability.

Maybe Specialized should design a new fork that has an axle path that is similar to their new frame design? Oh wait, that would work horribly. Hmmm.
  • + 1
 I love that you think this ultra-rudimentary animation, something that mimics the quality of South Park, is proving anything. There are so many inaccuracies in that animation that you can't possibly come to an certain conclusion besides the shock having far too little compression damping and the rebound being far too fast. Hell it rolls over bumps at times and nothing happens except a delay. Hardly scientific or proving/disproving anything of importance.

Show me actual data based on plotting the real frame's actual axle path (not a rough idea of what some kid thinks it might do) and then I will be convinced. Provide facts not conjecture. I know that's hard for Pinkbike members to do at times, but at least try.
  • - 1
 Ka-brap, regardless of it being exaggerated because of the shock not having enough damping you can still see the wheels continually moving toward and away from each other and the reason for this is the too-low BB Pivot which makes the rear axle travel in almost the direct opposite direction than the front axle. This is a physical fact. It is also a fact that there are no performance advantages to this having a suspension bike work this way. Name one if you think there are. Especially in steep terrain, where that angle of that rear axle rebounding makes it look like the rear wheel is trying as hard as a bucking bronco to force the bike head over heels. A great shock cannot make up for this bad of a design, because if you combine a great shock with a great design it will perform much better.

I couldn't imagine a worse design for creating instability in a bike on steep terrain, the constant change of the wheelbase length because of the axle paths going in opposite directions also probably creates significant traction issues with the tires, especially in situations where the rider has both brakes applied(steep terrain). The axle path imbalance would cause the front wheel too surge ahead and lose traction most likely, because of all the weight behind the bike on steep terrain.

I look forward to anyone' s criticism of these ideas regarding the axle path imbalance and the problems it creates.
  • + 1
 But we don't know if this person's simulation is actually accurate with the axle path of the actual bike- that's what I'm getting at. Until we see the actual data, none of us will know and we'll just be spouting conjecture. What you say might actually be correct, we have no idea. The only thing we do know is that the bike is performing very well at the highest caliber of downhill racing. That for me counters your conjectural opinion and until we know any actual data concerning how the axle path truly moves, the real life results of it on the World Cup are all we have to go on. And if we are all honest with ourselves, the results are really good.
  • - 1
 The simulation looks pretty accurate if you look at where the pivots are. I don't even need to look at the simulation to know this bike has horrible axle path balance, I knew it the minute I looked at the design. The simulation is good though because the visible white wheels really highlight the instability created by this design. If you just watch the wheels as it goes through the simulation its surprising how all over the place they are, it almost appears as if the axles aren't in the center of the wheels at times. . This bike probably has the most axle path imbalance of any bike in mountain bike history considering the Rotec had a much higher bottom bracket. I don't need to see 'data', I know instability when I clearly see it, and this is a highly unstable design, especially in steep, rough terrain.

I disagree that the bike is performing very well. The bike is performing average at best considering the talent they have riding it. If it had the results of the new V10 you could make big claims about this bikes accomplishments, but it doesn't. Gwin still has not win a World Cup race on a Demo after winning over 70% of the World Cup races he raced aboard a Trek Session. I can't help but wonder how many more World Cup wins he would have now had he stayed on a Trek, probably at, probably at least 5. These guys are getting decent results in spite of the new Demo, not because of it.
  • + 0
 You know instability when you see it? Like Brook's crash at MSA given the unstable rear-end of the new Session? Personally, I don't believe that statement at all and if we substituted out Brook and put Gwin or Brosnan in that very same crash you would be blaming it on the design of the Demo, not rider error. We all know you would, but you don't say anything about it when it happens to a Trek rider.

In two races, the bike has a 4th, 6th, 2nd, 3rd and nothing worse- hardly "average a best". If anything, the old bike simply performs better than the old 26" version. I would concede that most likely. But we can't even remotely begin to say the same thing about the Session. No wins after Gwin's departure with a couple podiums over 2 years is hardly an argument for a better design. Same with Gee's switch to 650b wheels- his season is hardly that what it was last year, must be the wheel size! Same for Stevie- his injury must be the result of a 650b curse! It's all nonsense and rubbish inductive argumentation. Which leads me to always come back to ultimate conclusion- it's the rider, not the bike. Just enjoy the races and awesomeness of all the bikes, but you clearly have a bone to pick with Specialized and that will apparently never go away.
  • + 0
 Ka-Braaaaap: "Just enjoy the races and awesomeness of all the bikes"

That quote says so much about you, you should have just said: "Don't question the corporations, their marketing is awesome!"

Aww, you don't want to talk about axle paths anymore, do ya? You are a fan boy who thinks its all the rider, nothing about the bike. Suspension engineering is Greek to you and you aren't fluent.

Worst axle path imbalance ever.
  • + 1
 So bad, it led Aaron Gwin to the second biggest winning margin in a World Cup of his career. Has any bike company offered you a design job yet?
  • - 1
 Has anyone offered you a comedian gig yet?

m.vitalmtb.com/photos/features/G-Out-Project-Fort-William-BDS-2015,8934/G-Out-Fort-William-Specialized-S-Works-Demo-8,91870/sspomer,2

Awesome. Turns out it has dirt jumper wheelbase when bottomed out!
  • + 1
 @Protour: I do not really understand a lot of kinematic but all i need to know is, is the new demo a bike worth to buy or does the link system suck - i read a lot about a kicking rear end.... is it true what some people are writing? Hope you can help me here...i am a bit confused i have to say
  • + 1
 @ka-brap: I do not really understand a lot of kinematic but all i need to know is, is the new demo a bike worth to buy or does the link system suck - i read a lot about a kicking rear end.... is it true what some people are writing? Ok, seh grad ich kann dich wohl auf deutsch anschreiben Smile Ich würd mir gern ein Demo aufbauen, such ein Bike zum Spass haben, mag kurze Kettenstreben, da würd mir das Demo gut passen. Ist das Bike in deinen Augen wirklich eine Fehlkonstruktion.....kicked der Hinterbau? Danke für deine Hilfe
  • + 2
 @supersante: considering it is the most popular bike seen at Whistler, I'd say it rides acceptably and is a great value for 99% of the riders out there

www.pinkbike.com/news/what-people-are-riding-whistler-opening-weekend-2016.html
  • + 93
 My wife just made the comment that...
(wife) - "Pinkbike must be run by women"
(me) - "and whys that"
(wife) - "because they always write very long articles that doesn't actually answer the question that they set out to answer"!
  • + 22
 Sounds more like a politician in a debate.
  • + 1
 Heheehhe so true!
  • - 2
 It means they were trying to prove 26" is as good as, or better than 650b, but they found the old bike was nervous. They had to come up with a way to spin it to show some advantage for the trolls.
  • + 6
 As five5hot said below "it isn't whippy, playful bike that it's predecessor was." for me that's the only reason I ride. So why get new jeans if only the knees are ripped?
  • + 9
 Women actually can actually tolerate reading Pink Bike articles?
  • + 1
 "...and that's an especially important fact for any expert or sport-level rider who will really benefit from the extra confidence that comes from the longer wheelbase and larger diameter wheels. Let me explain... Riding the 2014 Demo and 2015 Demo back to back on the same section of trail showed that the new machine feels less "on edge" when it's especially rough or fast, enough so as to make last year's bike feel a bit more nervous than we would have said had we not been switching back and forth between the two."

It certainly doesn't say the new bike is lazy either. Its saying the old bike isn't that much worse. Its a way to downplay the advantages of the redesign. Modern bikes are pretty refined, so there won't be huge dramatic changes in feel year to year like there were 10 years ago.
  • + 6
 Considering the drunk girlfriend comment, I'm guessing it's not written by women.
  • + 2
 What do you mean confidence? You have 8 inches of travel front and rear! Top of the line components! Whats next a pat on the bottum when people get off the lift? I'm just disappointed with 650b and tappered headtubes...yeah can't just swap shit around like it's 2008 anymore.
  • + 0
 In 2008, you couldn't swap shit around from 2004 anymore either. I still have some rim brake components from the early 2000's. They didn't fit my 2007 frames and forks.
  • + 1
 ya accept now i cant put my wheels from my 2013 bike on my 2014 .... or buy 2014 and beyond wheels for my 2013 bikes .... yay...
  • + 0
 Well, if things didn't change, I could still be riding a rigid steel 21 speed, my first mountain bike. Ask me in 10 years if you want to go back to 2008.
  • + 0
 im telling you now in 2014 i want to go back to 2013-2012 so my otherwise easily swappable parts stay that way like they were for what 2000-2012(3) that is over your 10 year mark , how long have we had 26 inch wheels and forks that could be swappable. Also forgot to mention i cant even buy a damn tire without going online if we go back in time on that one too id be fine and could buy them local in a shop, like seems to make sense ya know, buy some new tires for my new bike only theoretically a year old with unsupported tech ... .good times...
what else ...that nice 26" fork i bought oh you cant swap that to your new rig the tires are too big ...and for legacy ..."my heatube is too small only a handful of years later" Razz
lol yea it is funny in retrospect but still is going to garner complaints from people for the above and obvious reasons, we dont and shouldn't be throwing piles of money over and over with tech at the level it is at and manufacturing the same. But if we all bought a bike that lasted for 10 years and didnt need improvement, there would be no bike companies to sell us one in ten years time Razz
  • + 1
 Oversized heated tubes have been pretty much standard for 7 or 8 years now, or at least optional. I did have 2 frames from 09 that are 1 1/8 only though. It doesn't make sense to put a $1000.00 fork on a bike I could resell for $2500.00 at best. I just don't get all the complaining. If you want to use your old components, find a compatible frame. The rest of us will ride what we have, or buy something new. My old wheels had QR axles, even my old DC fork was QR. It's not compatible with anything I want to be currently riding.

Hey, want to buy my lid aquarium DC fork! It will fit your old wheels!
  • + 2
 Your other option is to buy one of the new leftover 26" frames sitting in storage. You really can go back in time on this issue.
  • + 6
 No offense Willie, but why are you so convinced that 650B is so much better than 26"? You have made 10 comments on this article alone defending 650B and knocking 26". You latch on to the 1 line in the article where he says the 2014 demo is "nervous", neglecting the fact that the article also uses the words playful and nimble in the same context. You have probably made over 100 comments over the past 6 months regarding how superior 650B is. Any other regular on this site knows what I'm talking about. You're obsessed man. Why do you care if other people disagree with you? If you are right about 650B, the future will prove you right. In the meantime, I suggest you stop referring to others as trolls and take a good long look in the mirror. That being said, I've ridden 650B bikes and I agree with you that they are better than 26" for trail riding. I just think you need to lay low for a while. Your opinion is very clear to the rest of us and your point has been made. Numerous times.
  • + 3
 I'm convinced all these bike companies are stockpiling 26" frames to bring back onto the market once we have all converted to a larger wheel size. Again to quote my better half "bigger wheels? they are just trying to make up for inadequacies in the bedroom"
  • + 0
 I'm not knocking 26" wheels. I own 26 and 650b.
  • + 1
 Any sentence that starts with the words "I'm not prejudiced, but...," or similar formations ("I'm not racist, but..." or "I'm not homophobic," "not sexist," etc.) is likely to contradict itself very rapidly. The technical term for this type of statement is false front, but the colloquial but-head is often used, with or without irony. Saying a sentence that starts with "I'm not X, but..." likely means that you are X.
  • + 1
 There was no "but" in my statement. What is your point?
  • + 3
 Now now ladies
  • + 83
 It depresses me that so many people can't be bothered to read a piece that tries to answer a question quite a few people are probably asking. How else do you expect him to explain the differences between the bikes, with crayon drawings?
  • + 53
 The children who can't be bothered to read are not the target audience for this bike anyway.
  • + 8
 Excellent article and ditto on what DavidSA said.
  • - 3
 Or maybe the discerning buyer wants a succinct comparison with its competition.
  • + 3
 If you can't take the time to read this......... Fill in the blank. My head hurts with the laziness.
  • + 11
 This article ruled. It should be done way more often, and not just on expensive DH whips. There's a few trail bikes that could use the same treatment.
  • + 2
 Thank you saying this
  • + 8
 The article wasn't even that long.
  • + 3
 did anyone do timed runs on the 2 bikes. would be interesting to see which one is faster against the clock.
  • + 1
 Crayon drawings - that's a really good idea
  • + 1
 Hey man, I'm pretty good with the colored wax. I could draw a stick figure like you wouldn't believe
  • + 1
 I read the article, then up-voted the first comment 'cause it was funny
  • + 57
 I've got a steel hardtail and it's wicked.
  • + 22
 The steel 26 hardtail will NEVER die. They are, simply, too much raw fun to be overlooked.
  • + 13
 Apparently we are Luddites however, so we should probably retreat back into our caves and communicate via drawings and grunting.
  • + 14
 Luddites that have loads of fun and more beer money Wink
  • + 1
 To be honest I always expect people with suspension to be at the bottom ages before the 'luddite' but often that's not the case, suspension can sometimes make all but the very dedicated a little bit lazy in some respects.
  • + 3
 There is a time and place every category of bike. Sure 26" steel hardtail is fun in the right application (and I totally think it is), but not where you want to have a fun/safe time bombing trails designed for 200mm of travel. A steel XC geometry 26" hardtail is not a good choice at a WC DH track.
  • + 5
 I know, that's why I also have a TR450. I was just saying that I had a steel hardtail and it's wicked Wink
  • + 2
 There are also a lot more designs for hardtails now than just XC. There are some crazy capable AM and almost DH worthy hardtails out now. I'll never not want a Shan...
  • + 1
 Exactly, I've got a steel hardtail; It's only got 130 in the front, but it honestly rides like a dh bike (minus the suspension, obviously) going down hill. Great bike!
  • + 30
 "...it isn't the whippy, playful bike that its predecessor was." NUFF SAID!
  • + 8
 i feel like all that had to change was tires!! go from 26 to 27.5. Anyway i still think the old demo looks better!
  • + 8
 Great article and points out these^^ two points exactly......it's a more race specific geometry, so it may not be for everyone....and unless you're going Mach1 all the time, the 26'er wheel is probably still preferable Smile
  • + 5
 I actually think the old Demo looks more of a FR style than the new Demo. Plus in my opinion the '14 one looked better haha.
  • - 2
 Makes sense though, if you're looking for the fun, playful bike for riding DH, that's what they make the Status for.
  • + 2
 Demo is more playful, I've ridden both several times
  • + 1
 Not anymore though, it would seem
  • + 28
 Can we have a V-10 27.5 vs Demo 27.5 now?
  • + 1
 yes 100%, this article is flawed in the wheel sizes. The teams did use a 650b 2014 demo. Pinkbike need to get a hold of one of those and test back to back and eliminate the wheel size variable.
  • + 15
 except the article isn't supposed to be about which WC race bike is faster, it's supposed to be a comparison between the two production bikes for people who might want to upgrade.
  • + 1
 true and it gives a good representation of that, but because other bikes on the market come with 650b wheels you have to remove that factor from the equation to get a clear picture of what this frame can do for the consumer. Why should this frame be bought over the other 650b frames on the market is the question. How good is this new design and suspension over the old one, because the wheel size effects this it doesn't show a clear picture of what is frame advancements are and what is just wheel size. There is lots of hype about this new frame I want to hear about the frame without the wheel size having an effect on the review.
  • + 3
 We did it was Windham
  • - 3
 V-10 will kill the Demo!
  • + 4
 can we have that in plastic instead of carbon? $9000 is too much
  • - 5
flag drivereight (Aug 18, 2014 at 9:41) (Below Threshold)
 Just look at the DH WC results in the past 2 races, V10.
  • + 8
 Is that in some bizarre alternate universe where Sam Hill rides for Santa Cruz?
  • + 0
 V10 and Demo results...though Sam Hill would kill it on a V10!
  • + 3
 I meant it more as we need amateur/lower level riding review. Since i don't think any off us ride at that level of Ratboy and Gwin.
  • + 1
 @grog hunter

Just checked, specialized are doing a production 650b in the old design, its on their site now. So as far as production testing goes, they can actually test the old vs new in both 650B. This would be the best test.
  • + 1
 Only if you're concerned about whether the bike is faster with 650b wheels, which is valid question, but still not the point of this article.
  • + 1
 it is a little the point, the point was to test the old vs new demo, the entire frame was redesigned, you need to take out the 650b factor because the old frame can now be bought in 650b and will be, so we have a choice between old vs new both in 650b as a production frame now. We already know the 650b wheels are better over 26, so that leaves us with the frame, So the question most riders will ask now will be is the 2015 old design 650b better than the s works 650b. Because we will be buying either one in 650b the old bikes become irrelevant now to test against and it comes down to frames.
  • + 1
 Which is another article that they can write. THIS article, however, is for people who own the old one, & want to know if they should buy the new one. You're treating it like it was fully comprehensive test, but it wasn't. He got what, a whole day on the new one before he wrote this? Their full tests take FAR longer.
  • + 11
 Make a bike long and low and it will go 'fast'? Make it shorter and it'll be 'fun'? Mix the two and it'll be a... Mix of the two?? So the question is always, do you want fractions of a second or do you want playful? Or do you want a little of both? Or is this too simplified?
  • + 1
 It's all a trade off.
  • + 1
 to quote a previous article: "Style-Specific Sizing, or S3 geometry for short, is the realization of this, with the new Demo being available with four different top top lengths that are split between two relatively short seat tube heights....The idea behind S3 is to allow the consumer to choose the size that best suits their riding style and terrain"
  • + 10
 After reading through all that this 'steel hardtail riding luddite' will continue to wonder why people seem to care about a fraction of a second here and there. If your not having fun your doing it wrong... and from the sounds of this review they got it wrong!
  • + 3
 I can't recall anywhere in the article where the reviewer said the new bike was less fun. "The bike is easier to ride faster when the speeds pick up or the ground is choppy, but it isn't the whippy, playful bike that its predecessor was. How much that matters to you will depend on what you're looking to accomplish, but it's clear that the new Demo is much more race-focused than what it was in the past."

They made a better race bike and for a lot of people, that will translate to being more fun. For some others, it might not be more fun. But that's pretty much how all bikes go.
  • + 5
 I will continue to wonder how peoples head's don't explode from the cognitive dissonance of saying "I don't care about speed, I only care about fun" when they've spent the last however many years they've been riding a bike enjoying speed. Because speed is huge part of what makes bikes fun.

Of course, someone who's commenting that their "steel hardtail is just fine" in a shootout article about to two 8" travel DH bikes is a troll, even if they aren't being one intentionally, & I should stop feeding them.
  • + 4
 groghunter,

The reason people are commenting about steel hardtails is probably because of the comment about steel hardtails in the article.

What you should be wondering, is why in a shoot out comparison article about two DH race sleds, there was a comment about steel hardtails at all... Wink
  • + 1
 I've ridden every style of bike under the sun so don't really consider myself a luddite, but I'm getting a HT frame built for me again because I like the feeling of riding a HT. So the comment in the article is pretty funny..... I like the look of the new Demo, but mainly because it looks fairly normal, and the old one was such a stupid design. As for the one sided seat mast, we got to the moon 40ish years ago, so in the greater scheme of things, this isn't really a mind blowing achievement.
  • + 5
 If people don't have fun when going fast then they are in the wrong sport surely ? Speed is fun guys
  • + 2
 I've 'banged out' enough Whistler laps to know that speed is fun. Picking lines, and boosting off small trail undulations is also fun ;-)
  • + 2
 Yeah i'm with you on that one , but people seem to think the two are exclusive from each other , and to be honest I don't purposefully decide to do either , some bits of a trail beg ya to race them other bits of the same trail beg ya to pop off shit , but either way it's allways done fast surely ?: P
  • + 5
 @bigburd to a point, but more speed doesn't necesarrily mean more fun.

For a lot of people, going 30 k/ph down a trail with a flickable, playful bike that they can hop roots on, do whips over small jumps, manual with ease and screw about on will be much funner than a bike that will go 33k/ph down the same trail but is too much of a boat to throw around and hop about on.
  • + 2
 Yeah I can see your point , but the thing is if you are pushing at a reasonable pace on a DH bike on proper DH track you will find the DH bike is just as flickable as the park bike , just instead of popping little roots and things you are doubling bigger features in the ground that lower speeds don't allow you too.

I'm guessing alot of the problem is that many people don't push their big bikes hard enough to take advantage of when a DH bike feels alive and as flickable as anything out there ( me included too much of the time )

But yeah some times slowing down abit to ride the smaller features can be fun.
  • + 13
 Levy, I like your reviews but the on going misogyny in your cute colour commentary is becoming tedious.
  • + 6
 Thank you.
  • + 10
 2014 is more fun. 2015 is more stable. A fat girl is stable... I like the dirty ones that don't mind being thrown about.
  • + 9
 I like how the author wrote about how the geo was way more important then the wheel size and was very impartial to each bike. Very unbiased informative review / comparrison.
  • + 0
 What boggles my mind, is the riders who want 65deg HTA to make their bikes more stable, but won't accept larger wheels that do the same thing with less of a downside.
  • + 2
 Willie, as much as I don't want to get dragged into a wheelsize argument on pb, what downsides are there to a 65deg HA (not even that slack btw) that bigger wheels avoid, as you seem to know so much?
  • + 3
 Willie larger wheels "roll" faster over rought terrain but they dont necessarily add the stability that a slack head angle and low BB offer. I suppose thats why all these companies are trying to do both.
  • + 1
 The trail # with a slack HTA exceeds the range of neutral handling, meaning more compromise than is needed in the balance between nimble and stable. At 65deg, climbing stability is quite compromised, and initial turn in in corners is more vague. The geometry numbers are in a more neutral range on a 650b bike with the HTA pulled back a few degrees. 65deg is quite slack in terms of trail bike history. For years, bikes used 71deg for XC, and 68/69deg for trail. 66 or slacker was DH. More modern riders actually want what larger wheels offer, but think the answer is in HTA. BB drop and trail are the most significant geometry numbers, with CS length and HTA following those two. I'm sure this weill be neg propped, but as a frame designer/builder (hobbyist) these are the variables that are put together to get a good riding bike.
  • + 2
 Willie1, when 29ers first came out, those were the comments that were made. A 29er with a 69degree headangle handled like a 26er with a 68 degree head angle. A 650b can't be compared in a similar light, but it appears it's starting to. Believe what you want to believe, but longer lower slacker are the trends we are going to because that's where the stability lies for the most part irregardless of wheelsizes. Ride a Yeti SB66, and a similar sized 'old school geometry' (ie shorter, higher, steeper) bike such as a Mojo HD, or an old Nomad, and you will see what I mean. The SB66 is the perfect stop gap for those who want to hold out on the smaller wheelsizes for now, they are that good.

Doesn't matter the wheelsizes bike companies are really heading in the right direction in terms of geo, IMO.
  • - 2
 I actually design, build, and test bikes. Maybe you missed that part. 26" to 29" is about a 3-4deg difference in HTA, 26" to 650b is about1.5deg difference. 29ers used 71deg HTA when 26ers used 68deg HTA. I currently ride 650b with 68degHTA, and is is very neutral handling.
  • + 3
 Yah bud but we are talking about bikes used for a highly specfied purpose. No one really cares if their DH bike is a little "vague" feeling in tight turns. DH tracks (especially WC level races) are gettting faster and faster with fewer tight techy sections. These guys need sleds not necessarily a more balanced bike which is what we normal peasents really need. And of course every average joe wants what the pro's are on so...
  • - 4
flag Willie1 (Aug 18, 2014 at 11:53) (Below Threshold)
 So if you could give up the vague feeling, without a negative, would you? Your argument actually supports the use of 650b in DH. My post was referring to the DH like geometry people want in their trail bikes, to overcome the shortcomings of 26" wheels. In DH, the same principles apply. Geometry can be more neutral, leaving a more balanced handling bike that performs better in most conditions, with fewer compromises.
  • + 6
 And here i was thinking there was a "good old" demo with 650b wheels and updated 650b geo, Why not test that against the new Demo?
www.specialized.com/nl/nl/bikes/mountain/demo/demo-8-ii#specs
  • + 6
 Yayyyy....longer wheelbase bikes. No one else on earth gets just how much suck that is on tight East Coast tracks....but the rest of the world has bigger trails, so do whatcha want.
  • + 8
 so many 26 bikes are going to be for sale grab a bargain and beat those 650b's!!!!!
  • + 7
 I'm just glad the comments about not wanting to read aren't coming from Americans Wink
  • + 6
 Me too. Had to double check the flag on that.
  • + 3
 ...Yet Americans get the lazy, uneducated stereotype all the time; completely bothers me.
  • + 3
 Nothing you can do but prove them wrong!
  • + 2
 Yeah I wouldn't let that stereotype bother me, just let it be a challenge to set a better example and like hetfield1 said an opportunity to prove that wrong.
  • + 4
 Great write up. I'd REALLY like to see more articles like this. Companies are constantly coming out with "bigger, better, faster, lighter, etc." bikes, but it's really hard to know what's changing practically (especially when you interject all that marketing noise). The article did a great job of describing the differences, rather than naming which was "better".

Please, do more of these in the future. Seriously.
  • + 6
 If you're fighting for those precious seconds and racing all the time and your wallet is hench as..... GET ONE! if not then don't bother.
  • + 4
 I am glad this article was written. I also wish that the bike manufacturers would remember that we don't all get to race/ride on wide open World Cup tracks and some of us need/prefer a slightly shorter bike with 26" wheels because the tighter trails some of us ride do in fact make more sense on the "old" designs. That said, anything that progresses technology and design is good.
  • + 3
 Like the article finished on, both bikes are rockin. Just depends if you want a pure racing machine, or a playful bike that you can still go really fast on. Ad go for the playful option. But that's just a personal preference thing init
  • + 2
 Why don't they just develop the Status for the people who want a DH sled that's got the same long-ass wheelbase as every other DH bike that's already available on the market and just leave the Demo alone, for the people who want a low, but really lively bike that they can throw about?
  • + 2
 Because the long wheelbase makes it a better race bike, and their race team ride demos.
  • + 2
 Dont you mean update the low end status to be more playful, keeping the 26, which is what most status owners are looking for, and continue to develop the demo as a race sled?
  • + 0
 Why? The Status already has the geo of almost every single other dh bike out there. The Demo was unique in how low and nimble it was.
  • + 4
 Pretty interesting, pb only makes these extra articles about the new demo. Why they don't write one about the new trek session? Does the big S pay for these articles?
  • + 6
 is this mean that we can now get 2014 Demo in Walmart for 300 bucks?
  • + 3
 Video or it didn't happen. Please give demo fans a small slowmo suspension-hitting-bumps of the new bike video to fap on ahahaha
  • + 1
 Dear pink bike,
When will you learn that most of the people here read articles like this in a similar fashion to a Playboy magazine? They are only looking at the pictures.

Maybe a 2014 demo vs a 2015 demo with the previous suspension designs and a 650b wheel would allow the focus to be on the wheel size change and how that effects the bike.
  • + 3
 It's probably because I've been reading Tom Robbins all day, but Mike your writing today is like daggers in my brain. And the girlfriend/shots thing? Dude.
  • + 1
 ok, just red article, quick but solid IMHO. Like text is short because for regular riders its "short" to feel difference between 2 bikes. You must be WC racer just to benefit from 2015 demo. Thats what I got in summary. Thing is Im about to buy 650b DH frame after I bought 650b enduro bike. No one here is mentioning that there will be not carbon "2014 like" demo in 2015 having 650b. I think it will match both bikes - more playful but also stable due 650b wheel - am I correct? ...thinking of ordering 2015 not carbon demo - what do u think guys ?
  • + 5
 Every new model year should get a comparison. Well done.
  • + 1
 LOLz, that one canada homie really does not like my Nae, he has no idea about cyclindrical cordinate systems either. Its a fun bike to ride and like anything murdered out in black it has issues but that makes it more fun. kek
  • + 1
 im a demo fan seen and ridden most of them and this one looks like it will be a game changer for racing and company competition. i am a bit sad to see the old demos go but like they say in with the new out with the old. i say well done to specialized and Mike Levy. cheers
  • + 1
 from an engineering point of view, symmetrical frame - strong, good. just the one sided seat mast - weird, bad but hey, if there's a way to make something new for the sake something new - wallets out i guess
  • + 2
 Is the old bike by a shitty, litigious company different than the new bike the the same shitty, litigious company? Who cares.
  • + 2
 Old one was nervous but the new one is faster. At filing lawsuits. Burn.
  • + 4
 dont like the look... nuff said
  • + 2
 I wonder what would've happened if they compared a 2014 with a 2015 that had 26" wheels, what difference would there be then??
  • + 1
 the prob is they design these all with 27 in mind so it wont be "ideal" with the smaller diameter , although entirely possible ... would it really effect that much or is it more BS to get us to buy the new tech ...
  • + 0
 I am very glad to see this article. There did need to be some clearing of the air on this topic. But I think the strength of what ML says confirms that while he personally favours the newer bike the difference between the older and newer bikes is small. And it is also clear that ML has made his own judgement based on the details of the bikes as they come - the bringing up to date of geometry and lowering of frame weight counts in the new bike's favour. Advocates of the old bike would want to say that geometry and materials changes could easily have been incorporated while sticking to the old design to achieve the same results. At the end of the day weighing up the merits of the new design against the old comes down to whether the benefits of the physical relocation of rear suspension framing and redistribution of weight downwards outweighs any shortcomings that those changes introduce. Specialized's account of the extensive work they have done and needed to do in order to ensure equivalent levels of stiffness for the new bike to the old one is a tacit admission of just how good the old bike was in structural design terms. A better design brief arguably would have been to stick with the undoubted structural advantages of the old design, achieve a weight reduction by implementing a carbon rear end and tweak the kinematics of the bike for better pedaling. That would have resulted in a better Demo. With this bike Specialized will need to substantiate it claims about the unique advantages that follow from lowering the rear suspension frame members. I remain skeptical.
  • + 1
 What it sounded like to me is that the differences in the bike were mainly just due to updated wheel size and geometry. All the other re-designed stuff seems like window dressing.
  • + 1
 I think that the new demo only makes sense for racers and wc competitors. So for me as a "park rat"; "freerider" or whatever you wanna call it, i'll just get a used carbon 2014 demo frame if i need a new one
  • + 2
 This article is so convincing I just kicked my Big Hit and called my mother to say I don't love her.
  • + 2
 Now I would like to see a comparison between the 2014 Scott Gambler and the 2015
  • + 1
 My 2014 26" V-10 is all this almost 40 year old guy needs…If your not a WC Athlete just ride for fun on what you want and fun is what you will have..
  • + 1
 26 aint dead ! Steel aint dead ! but death and aggresive Specialized communication strategy and marketing! Especially for a brand that asssembler its bikes in Cambodia!
  • - 1
 Spécialized, not spécialisée Wink
  • + 2
 Ask gwins gran bet she shreds. TBH who cares there's only so much a bike can do, it's the rider that makes the difference.
  • - 1
 "an expert level rider who knows that he has a better chance of becoming an astronaut than ever qualifying for a World Cup"

Right yet there have been a total of about 505 astronaut's in the world while 80-100 men qualify per WC race every race every year.....
  • + 12
 I still have a better chance of being an astronaut..
  • + 0
 Good one. Every actually raced DH? This was all I found:

www.rootsandrain.com/rider47700/mike-levy/results

Insightful review though.
  • + 1
 Mke Levy rules!! I love this response!!!
  • + 1
 Mike I may as well not sure. Pretty scared of heights and I am almost positive my IQ is not 160+ so.....
Smile
  • + 3
 I always just skip to the bottom, to get the final opinion.
  • + 2
 If this bike behaves like my X girlfriend After a few shots I better be wearing a full face
  • + 1
 It's not as fun and playful as it's predecessor? Come on Spesh, who are you trying to sell this bike to? We're not all wc racers, I want to ride for fun
  • + 1
 Nowhere did the reviewer say the bike wasn't fun. It was less playful in certain areas but then also more stable in certain areas. It depends on why you ride your bike- someone might very well have more fun on the newer version. Someone might have more fun on the older version. I know a lot of people who would like to ride faster and have more fun that way. The Demo is their flagship downhill bike, and this seems like a good fit for a company's flagship downhill bike. Their Enduro Evo would be a good fit for someone looking for more of a freeride/playful bike.
  • + 1
 Ok, i underetand. Let the Old Demo's User change your bikes for the new demo. Is pretty obviusly when a company like specialized bring a new bike to the market.
  • - 1
 All that for " a lighter bike with more traction , allows more rider input with the best suspension on a production MTB to date ". The only hang up will be the new pricing everything else can be overcome with dampening , pressure and setup . I cant wait to get my hands on one of these or the new V10 .
  • + 1
 I can't actually see the geo chart on my phone, does the 2015 demo now have something that someone of six foot four can ride? Can someone tell me what the large wheelbase is?
  • + 2
 Click the picture, switch to desktop site, scroll in and see for yourself.
  • + 0
 Thanks dude, I was doing that, maybe it was just my reception being slow, it was v. blurry. Love that I got neg propped for it, that made me smile.
  • + 2
 Got you back into the positive mate. (You guys still own Canada so i think it's my duty to serve you)
  • + 3
 2014 or 2015 ill be happy if i have one of those in my garage.
  • + 2
 Articles should be as short as UCI DH courses, simple, I enjoyed the pictures
  • + 2
 Good article,its the type of questions that people wants answered but can't go out and compare themselves .
  • + 3
 Great article, good to have some in depth analysis
  • + 1
 gonna get some negatives for this but id rather have a 2014 s-works than the 2015 s-works, not because of the wheel size...its just a nicer bike to me!
  • + 2
 With the chainstay being as low as it is I would be nervous about clipping a rotor rocks.
  • + 1
 its 5 mins of reading... if your racing and fighting for those precious seconds and you've got a hench wallet GET ONE if not continue as you are...
  • + 2
 I was told msrp near 13k, any truth to that?
  • + 1
 if true that is ridiculous. Specialized will need to do some serious convincing if they want people to spend that much more over a V10c.
  • + 3
 The top end V10 Carbon 650b will no doubt be in a similar "supercar" price range
  • + 4
 Spez has already put their bikes at the same price as similar Santa Cruz bikes in Australia. Stumpjumper Carbon evo 650b costs 7,700 AUD and SC Bronson with the X01 spec (very similar but with less in house branded parts) costs 7,500 AUD. Considering the size of Specialized as a company, they seem to charge (relatively) a lot for their bikes, and lost my money as a result. I bought a Devinci Troy with better spec for less money.
  • + 1
 ridiculous all these money asked for a frame made in asia with prob 100 times less cost. they must think we've got money to throw away
  • - 1
 frizstyler- there are many many reasons why a product costs what it does. The "bill of materials" is only a small part. You have mold amortization, super high R&D costs, marketing, payroll, the cost of operating super high level professional teams. The list goes on. If you can't afford the top model S-Works (just as I cannot) then there are plenty of other cheaper models to chose from.
  • + 1
 Or, instead of settling for a cheaper component build, you can buy from a brand which charges a reasonable fee.
  • + 2
 i already know that,i wonder though why all these costs have to be so high. also i dont think there must be high r&d cost to output sth like this lol. its just an asian bike not a fighter airframe. and it costs like a new german car. outrageous! i dont understand what kind of fool would go buy such a thing and spoil the industry some more. these companies get away with overpricing their products and prices go continuously up everywhere. biking is becoming a fashion for few people with more money than sense. and instead of attracting people the industry seems ludicrous and ousts them away.
  • + 2
 cheap models? no such thing. if you remember a few years back the dh bikes used to cost HALF what they cost now.
  • + 2
 no bike will make u faster just hubs lol
  • + 1
 Poor Demo, natural beauty was great...now its botched and missing part of its body. WHEN WILL IT END!?
  • + 2
 Not sure I'd want a playmate that's slacker in the head department.
  • + 1
 Good lord, how can you guys still talk with that Speshy knob sooooo far down your throat?
  • + 2
 Why not compare S-Works vs. S-Works? Carbon vs. Carbon?
  • + 0
 Even i'm a Specialized hard die fan, these days or years (i hate to say this) Specialized is no other advertisement company.
CMIIW.
  • + 1
 Great comparison between v2014 and v2015 Smile

www.braggibikes.com/2015-specialized-demo-s-works
  • + 2
 "but it isn't the whippy, playful bike that its predecessor was"
Frown
  • + 2
 i guess it would be ok for farmwork
  • + 2
 Excellent papier. Merci pour l'info.
  • + 2
 I'm just waiting for the Protour / waki comments!
  • + 2
 I read comments more than i read articles
  • - 2
 Not that I don't like the new ones look, it is sick, but I must be in a minority when i say I quite liked the bombproof multi-stay rear arrangement. Seen lots of folk slate it but it can't be a coincidence that for years the demo was one of the best bikes for comfortably ploughing through trail mayhem.
  • + 2
 Old front and New rear on 26'r should be awesome....
  • + 1
 Yeah that actually might b sick
  • + 2
 fuck reading that shit ill just go watch a porn video
  • + 2
 _____o^o_____by by_____O^O_____
  • + 2
 I'll keep my old demo Wink
  • + 1
 Ok for you lazy people. New demo is better.
  • + 2
 2014 Demo is better
  • - 2
 So the slacker geometry, and longer wheelbase are noticeable, but the larger wheels only make up "slivers" of time. How the hell did you come up with that assessment? Talk about trolling!
  • + 2
 I dunno, it's still rider fitness, skill, and line choice that make the biggest difference. If we were to just compare wheelsizes and race times, Windham wouldn't be a good example (slower this year), the air DH was slower in the last two years than 2012, so was this years Canadian open. Too many variables. Sure the physics is there for carrying momentum, and if the rider can take and vantage of at and pull off a banger of a run well they win right?
  • + 1
 but, how does it pedal uphill? Smile
  • + 1
 Haha, dropper and a rad components 42t!
  • + 0
 Hey Mister... You didnt write about, if the tight turns handling of the 2015er bike is worser with the nower longer geo
  • + 2
 2010 demo was darn nice
  • + 2
 Yawns...
  • + 1
 All I can say is I'm glad I still have my Kona Entourage.
  • + 1
 MODE 2015
  • + 1
 old demo is rubbish
  • - 2
 "but it isn't the whippy, playful bike that its predecessor was. How much that matters to you will depend on what you're looking to accomplish"

Norbs got robbed Razz
  • + 1
 I love my demo
  • - 1
 650 b for sure dudes!!
the new demo is the big big killer himself Smile
greets from austria
  • - 2
 Have to say the most disapointing ride I ever had loved the demo couldn't wait to get one, then couldn't wait to sell it, big hype Shit bike.
  • + 0
 this is boring
  • - 2
 I'm not reading all that
  • - 2
 => 26" for me.
  • - 2
 I cant afford one so why read it?
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