Hey all, I'm here again to take a stab at guessing what will happen next year. No tarot cards or tea leaves went into these guesses. Would they be better if they had some otherworldly backing? That's for you to decide.Drivetrain development is about to get more interesting.Since I first started mountain biking, drivetrain development has remained an area of our little bike world that's seen almost no change. The technology has stayed profoundly boring, working essentially the same way it always has. The rear derailleur moves the chain around on the cassette, which changes the amount the rear wheel moves for each pedal stroke. Okay, cool. The front derailleur has mostly disappeared in mountain biking, I guess there's that, but otherwise, we're due for some updates.
Then we hit the point when apparently all the engineers were bored too! Yippie!
This 'prediction' is a little bit of a lazy cop-out because claiming drivetrain development will become more interesting is a little bit like predicting paint will dry or wheels will stay round. The bar was set low.
Regardless, we've seen some action.
First, SRAM casually updated the derailleur hanger concept, giving bike manufacturers real incentive to design around a universal standard, then once SRAM had sold us all on that Trojan horse, the brand conveniently released their new wireless electronic Transmission groups that happened to fit all those bikes. Well played, SRAM.
And then there's the gearbox situation. We've seen some development of ideas like gearbox-motor combinations, which I think eliminate some of the downsides of both gearboxes and motors. There seems to be to a lot of new momentum in the drivetrain world, and I, for one, love to see it.
YouTube and social media will continue to take over as the ways to succeed as an athlete.I'm not the first and I won't be the last to point out that being a professional or high-level athlete is changing. Today, athletic success seems almost unrelated to race results and has everything to do with how savvy a rider is at showing their accomplishments to the world. This point will make some mad, I'm sure, but it's real. If a rider wins a race, that happens in a single location during a condensed time period. If that same rider publishes a shreddy video on the internet, that video and the comments will live on, be shared by those with similar interests, and capture way more eyeballs than a single race result ever could.
Throw in a recent experience like the pandemic canceling all races and the visibility gained by event-goers starts to seem essentially irrelevant.
Today, I'd suspect that companies invest way more budget on influencers than people who would describe themselves strictly as athletes, and yet existing as a professional athlete, and only that, still involves an astonishing amount of playing the influencer game.
I remember that from when I was doing the racing thing, and I've continued to watch it play out over the last few years since. (At least, until I 95% quit using social media in the last year because the part of my brain that it captured seems to have thankfully gone offline.)
All of that makes sense and a lot of those decisions are what I'd do if I worked in marketing. I love the sport of mountain biking and it would be a tragedy to lose the pure savagery of competition, but the athletes might need to evolve to be less financially dependent on brands subsidizing our entire sport by using it as a marketing platform.
The industry will continue to struggle, but it's not all doom and gloom.The number of bike brands that have run into financial trouble recently is ludicrous. We've seen many, many brands restructure to some extent and pull back their support for racers. This is the fall after the Covid-induced spike, when demand for bikes sharply increased and companies ramped up production but then were left hanging when the demand dropped off. Things feel odd and precarious right now, and of course there are some serious consequences for the existence of the brands we know and love, the stability of the industry, and the racing world mentioned above that depends on brands' subsidies.
Still, they say every cloud has a silver lining or something kind of like that (though I've spent time in clouds while paragliding and most cloud linings seem to me to be cold and white). The silver lining (arguable bright side) here is that the industry's recent financial trouble will spur types of creativity we have not seen before.
I don't know what we'll see. (If I could predict that, maybe I'd be able to make it myself.) But I do think we're at a point when the old tactics have stopped working, and that'll push everyone into figuring out new ways to do things, whether that's figuring out athlete support, making products that work better, approaching the sport in a way that's healthy in the long term... the possibilities are endless, and I think we have the unique chance to take advantage of that right now.
Next year will be better than this one.I mean, it's bound to be, right?
Here's another one about as safe as saying wheels will stay round, and this one's entirely subjective, but this is my list, so I'll roll with it. This has
not been the easiest year on record and it would be just too absurd for the next one to be even worse. I celebrated last New Year's by noticing it was the end of the month, loosely acknowledging it to myself, going to bed early, and carrying on with the brain rehab program I was in, the same exact person I'd been the day and the year before. I'd just been released from the latest hospital, but turns out, the rehab project felt like it was just starting. The rest of the year didn't stray too far from the recovery theme, but despite being mostly kind of grim, there were some real, mindblowing, meaningful, just plain cool highlights, too.
In 2024, I'll do my best to lean into the uncertain moments, keep learning, keep growing, and have those little beams of light keep coming back into my world. The best part is that all of that seems realistic.
and that’s good enough for me…
But the popularity of vapid content makes me less optimistic about the human condition.
Gotta say that it was ok when it was new (or at least new to me), but watching you tube mtb gets old fast, even the very good guys uploading weekly or so.
What you say about your daughter and students is great and I hope it widespreads, I haven't seen sings of it myself, sadly.
Videos of how to do one's own maintenance has great value.
Pushing out a weekly or even bi weekly web series at 15-20 minutes long per video is a decent amount of work and can also be very informative/entertaining.
Instagram content on the other hand is a bunch of 10 second reel, staged photos, and product placements, all of which is essentially useless.
They ask if I saw the latest episode of Seth’s bike hacks or what I think of Bermed Peak.
When I started to investigate non-enthusiast mountain bike YouTube, it was a wild ride. But their view counts are staggering and consistent. Compared to Cole Lucas or Katy Winton riding about in the back field of a sport nobody cares about.
People love to go on about gearboxes but they only make sense on e-bikes where the motor can compensate for the added drag. Humans can’t make enough power to compensate.
It’s silly to sit here and just say they were greedy and never saw this coming but thats almost certainly not the case.
I'm sure they realized it was a gamble, but seems like the choice was to accept failure or buy a ton of product and hope you can sell it before the crash back to normal.
It was all a total cluster f*ck. Really the only people to blame is everyone for choosing to ignore this potentially charlie foxtrot, and who are already forgetting that another pandemic is going to happen with certainty.
I've Offerd a heap of people free time to gain one big 'downhill' improvement, Easy to do on DT swiss which is often who i target most with this, when they have a 54T, drop them to an 18T - they ALWAYS say "OMG The bike just floats through stuff , its like riding a different bike" - well duh your weight isnt working against the suspension via the drivetrain.
the 36T is a good middle ground but i still swap out to 18's for the bike park.
Climbing, especially tech is a different argument all together and not what im discussing.
(well of course this is true, Thats EXACTLY why the O-Chain is so popular)
An 18t ratchet provides up to 20 degrees of engagement, but could also at any instant be 1 degree away from engaging. You don’t have some constant 20 degrees of float. In reality you have completely random engagement points anywhere between 0-20 at any given moment.
Your last sentence proves my arguement, anywhere between 0-20degrees, leaving a heap of 'slack' in the which in turn provides less sudden kick.
Im not going to argue it, Go get a cheap dtswiss ratchet wheel, put in 18, ride it... then try the 54(these can be done trail side) you will instantly notice the feedback esepecially over rougher sections. - jump back to the 18 and the bike will instantly feel smoother.
Honestly - I argued the other way, like you. I just HAD to have those loud high engagement hubs, untill i rode a stock version of the same bike, (setup basically the same) I wasnt convinced though, so i spoke to some Pro's last summer in skyline/queenstown who were sponsored by a high engagement hub brand he said "yep they are damn good but that is just something we have to deal with"
Thats when I bought a new dtswiss wheel and tried it myself.
I’ve ridden all types of hubs from cheap 18 point engagement hubs, to spanks with 102 points, i9s with nearly infinite engagement and felt no difference in how smooth the bike was because at anything above a slow cruise the wheel is moving too fast for pedal kickback to exist.
Also you are not grasping how the ‘Slack’ in the slow engagement hubs works. You don’t consistently have 20 degrees of slack in the system. The pedals could just as easily be 1 degree from engaging as it is 20 degrees from engaging at any point in time. Meaning on one bump your hub may react like a sloppy 18 point , and on the next engage immediately and feel no different than than an I9.
It’s not like an ochain where it’s giving you a consistent amount of slack the entire time.
Heatedrotor is right in that hubs do play quite a roll in Pedal feel especially When you are at that 'near locked' part of your braking - This is made extreme by bikes Like the ST EVO, that has High anti squat combined with a Linear standard tune on both the design and shock.(using this as an example as its a popular mainstream bike)
Sino, Your thinking is correct but on a rough track overal the average feel is better - We've tried All types of setups with our Sessions over the years and while the latest iteration is better, We feel we can run a low Engagement hub instead of O'chain.
The O'chain, yes is more consistent as it only has one job, However if you cant get or doesnt fit, a low engagement hub is an easier and cheaper option.
My point was simply that there is no way you instantly notice a low engagement hub being smoother, or that it makes it feel like a different bike, or the bike just suddenly starts floating over rough stuff. All things other commenter was claiming.
I mean think about it, for the engagement of the hub to matter in regards to pedal kickback the cassette has to pull the cranks backward with the chain, meaning the upper chain would need to be pulled tight and under tension. Now think about any time you’ve ever watched slow motion video of a bike riding through rough terrain. What’s the upper chain doing? It’s flopping and slapping all over the place, meaning it’s not under tension and can’t possibly be causing pedal kickback.
If a sloppy hub was continuously preventing pedal kickback there would be no chain slap since the chain would have to be tight the whole time. But again we know that’s just not the case as we know the chain is flopping all over the place.
Id happily say we Employee some of the best Riders and being a mechanic for them has been great.
Have you heard of Wheel rock? going between locked in the air as it skips and then moves again when touching the ground with the same pressure applied - when this happens very quickly you get consistent feed back.
I believe was mentioned in the first post but Maybe you need to try it - it appears he did & has shown others with similar results.
There is some theory in here which you have some valid points and I see What you are thinking which is why I believe you need to test it yourself.
We dont use DTSWISS wheels so cannot swap out as easily but that does sound like an easy way to test the two different ideas.
And if the wheel moves again as it hits the ground the forward motion of the wheel will allow the cassette to move forward and add slack to the chain, again meaning there isn’t going to be kickback from the suspension.
Watch this slow motion video of WC riders. Slow down the playback even more and you can see clear as day that even when the wheels skip and lock in the air the upper chain is still slack and flopping around meaning there is no kickback.
youtu.be/g--ii3TpHEQ?si=37gPAhq_nxs5ggwf
I’m not saying kickback doesn’t exist. It just only can happen in very limited situations when coasting (climbing/pedaling is a different conversation). Mainly these situations are a super slow drop to flat or essentially panic braking into a bumpy section. Certainly nothing thats going to immediately make a low engagement hub improve suspension performance. The science just doesn’t back it up.
Maybe it’s just the low engagement hub has less drag, or its quieter which they tend to be that makes it feel smoother.
Something like an ochain which introduces the slack in the slider itself can offer some benefits that a low engagement cannot as it works in a different way.
I'll happily explain to you and show some examples of what we've tested other than the prototype stuff.
You can continue to discuss here but I will take raw Rider and data feedback over PB comments, thanks though
Note: please find a wheel suitable and test it before hand, you will be pleasantly surprised.
I hope whatever you are developing works out. Depending on what it is I don’t doubt that it can actually make the bike feel better. Almost everyone (even top pros) say an ochain makes the bike feel better too. I don’t doubt it. I just don’t think it has much to do with pedal kickback.
The objective data like math, physics, and video evidence says that it likely has very little to do with pedal kickback and is due to something else, most likely damping of vibration of the chain itself flopping around and pulling on the drivetrain.
Basically, is someone that could be the best rider in the world, not get an opportunity to shine because they are a bit ont he shy side, or wants to spend more time riding than editing content.
The social media rider ambassador movement (not the ex pro legit racers - the social media only people) is not my favorite.
The first definately puts the derailleur in a better position for shifting performance with less use of material. The latter was an excellent solution whilst still providing a breakaway DH. How is the sram derailleur supposed to break away without being wrecked?
I don't necessarily agree with this (we've had some amazing incremental changes that are having a big impact in the past few years), but if only more things in the bike world (and technology in general) considered this a feature, not a defect we'd be in a much better place on a global scale.