Alicia Leggett's 2024 Predictions

Dec 6, 2023 at 14:30
by Alicia Leggett  
Hey all, I'm here again to take a stab at guessing what will happen next year. No tarot cards or tea leaves went into these guesses. Would they be better if they had some otherworldly backing? That's for you to decide.

photo

Drivetrain development is about to get more interesting.

Since I first started mountain biking, drivetrain development has remained an area of our little bike world that's seen almost no change. The technology has stayed profoundly boring, working essentially the same way it always has. The rear derailleur moves the chain around on the cassette, which changes the amount the rear wheel moves for each pedal stroke. Okay, cool. The front derailleur has mostly disappeared in mountain biking, I guess there's that, but otherwise, we're due for some updates.

Then we hit the point when apparently all the engineers were bored too! Yippie!

This 'prediction' is a little bit of a lazy cop-out because claiming drivetrain development will become more interesting is a little bit like predicting paint will dry or wheels will stay round. The bar was set low.

Regardless, we've seen some action.

First, SRAM casually updated the derailleur hanger concept, giving bike manufacturers real incentive to design around a universal standard, then once SRAM had sold us all on that Trojan horse, the brand conveniently released their new wireless electronic Transmission groups that happened to fit all those bikes. Well played, SRAM.

And then there's the gearbox situation. We've seen some development of ideas like gearbox-motor combinations, which I think eliminate some of the downsides of both gearboxes and motors. There seems to be to a lot of new momentum in the drivetrain world, and I, for one, love to see it.

Blackcomb Heli drop during 2023 Crankworx Whistler
Found the hype, and turns out now we can share it more widely than ever before.

YouTube and social media will continue to take over as the ways to succeed as an athlete.

I'm not the first and I won't be the last to point out that being a professional or high-level athlete is changing. Today, athletic success seems almost unrelated to race results and has everything to do with how savvy a rider is at showing their accomplishments to the world. This point will make some mad, I'm sure, but it's real. If a rider wins a race, that happens in a single location during a condensed time period. If that same rider publishes a shreddy video on the internet, that video and the comments will live on, be shared by those with similar interests, and capture way more eyeballs than a single race result ever could.

Throw in a recent experience like the pandemic canceling all races and the visibility gained by event-goers starts to seem essentially irrelevant.

Today, I'd suspect that companies invest way more budget on influencers than people who would describe themselves strictly as athletes, and yet existing as a professional athlete, and only that, still involves an astonishing amount of playing the influencer game.

I remember that from when I was doing the racing thing, and I've continued to watch it play out over the last few years since. (At least, until I 95% quit using social media in the last year because the part of my brain that it captured seems to have thankfully gone offline.)

All of that makes sense and a lot of those decisions are what I'd do if I worked in marketing. I love the sport of mountain biking and it would be a tragedy to lose the pure savagery of competition, but the athletes might need to evolve to be less financially dependent on brands subsidizing our entire sport by using it as a marketing platform.

Shimano factory visit 2018

The industry will continue to struggle, but it's not all doom and gloom.

The number of bike brands that have run into financial trouble recently is ludicrous. We've seen many, many brands restructure to some extent and pull back their support for racers. This is the fall after the Covid-induced spike, when demand for bikes sharply increased and companies ramped up production but then were left hanging when the demand dropped off. Things feel odd and precarious right now, and of course there are some serious consequences for the existence of the brands we know and love, the stability of the industry, and the racing world mentioned above that depends on brands' subsidies.

Still, they say every cloud has a silver lining or something kind of like that (though I've spent time in clouds while paragliding and most cloud linings seem to me to be cold and white). The silver lining (arguable bright side) here is that the industry's recent financial trouble will spur types of creativity we have not seen before.

I don't know what we'll see. (If I could predict that, maybe I'd be able to make it myself.) But I do think we're at a point when the old tactics have stopped working, and that'll push everyone into figuring out new ways to do things, whether that's figuring out athlete support, making products that work better, approaching the sport in a way that's healthy in the long term... the possibilities are endless, and I think we have the unique chance to take advantage of that right now.

photo

Next year will be better than this one.

I mean, it's bound to be, right?

Here's another one about as safe as saying wheels will stay round, and this one's entirely subjective, but this is my list, so I'll roll with it. This has not been the easiest year on record and it would be just too absurd for the next one to be even worse. I celebrated last New Year's by noticing it was the end of the month, loosely acknowledging it to myself, going to bed early, and carrying on with the brain rehab program I was in, the same exact person I'd been the day and the year before. I'd just been released from the latest hospital, but turns out, the rehab project felt like it was just starting. The rest of the year didn't stray too far from the recovery theme, but despite being mostly kind of grim, there were some real, mindblowing, meaningful, just plain cool highlights, too.

In 2024, I'll do my best to lean into the uncertain moments, keep learning, keep growing, and have those little beams of light keep coming back into my world. The best part is that all of that seems realistic.




Author Info:
alicialeggett avatar

Member since Jun 19, 2015
745 articles
Must Read This Week
Sign Up for the Pinkbike Newsletter - All the Biggest, Most Interesting Stories in your Inbox
PB Newsletter Signup

134 Comments
  • 453 3
 Prediction #5: Alicia will continue to be awesome and inspiring.
  • 164 0
 I can't not smile while reading this comment. Thank you.
  • 20 0
 @alicialeggett: it truly is inspiring to read about your efforts to heal up well and cope with your injury. Thanks for that and all the best with continued progress
  • 10 0
 2024 will be just as good because @alicialeggett is still on here being an inspiration to all of us ……
and that’s good enough for me…
  • 8 0
 @alicialeggett: Thanks for having us, really. Here's to 2024!
  • 32 0
 @alicialeggett: my girlfriend had a road accident on Monday and suffers from a brain injury. I have followed your healing since the beginning and I quickly had your story in mind. The way you got through your accident is very inspiring and this gives me a lot of confidence for the future. I will share your story with her when possible this should give her hope and strength. And I will wish you all the best and thanks for all the quality articles over the years Smile
  • 26 0
 @Brodybro29: Hey, I'm sorry to hear your girlfriend had a similar accident and injury. I'm really glad you're there for her through that. I hope she recovers as well as possible. It's a really tough and frustratingly long-term process with lots of changes to accept and adapt to. Things like having someone caring like you who can share inspiration and belief in her seem huge. And I'm sure those changes will involve a lot of loss for you so be sure to take care of yourself too Smile
  • 107 28
 YouTube “athletes” are the worst. Sound bites and quick clips -and more deserving athletes keep getting dropped. I love a good clip by a talented athlete. I’ve rebuilt a car engine using YouTube videos to show how to do the many parts of that job (EJ255 turbo).

But the popularity of vapid content makes me less optimistic about the human condition.
  • 24 9
 I would be very disappointing if high level racing disappeared. There's always something enjoyable about watching someone at the very top of their craft doing something well. That said, mountain bikes, and all associated content including racing, are just entertainment. If youtube, influencer, content creator stuff is what one finds entertaining and worth their time, go for it. You personally do not have to watch it if you don't like it. No need to crap on somebody else's creation of others enjoy it.
  • 13 0
 @FMHUM: Top level racing will never disappear. People will eventually get bored of watching instagram & youtube clips and return to watching competition. It's all cyclical.
  • 13 7
 Most mountain biking content on youtube and other social media platforms is disappointing. I'm really not interested in the little gimmicks or "is x upgrade really worth it" or generally most of what people put out. It feels like pop content with vaguely mountain bike themed paint over it. I'm saying this as someone who casually does YouTube myself, but all I upload, and all I want to upload, is Pov footage of trails or shorts of trail features that I love to ride to show them off as best I can, with a little commentary at the beginning to introruce the trails. I feel like the current state of mtb YouTube really started just before the huge boom of popularity for mtb and had gotten worse since as people tried to jump on that band wagon.
  • 26 2
 Saying YouTube athletes are the worst is a bit of broad stroke don't you think? I really enjoy watching Remi, Yoann, Skills with Phil videos, all of who are amazing riders. Sure there are a lot of click-bait vids as well as this flood of "comedy" bike videos out there but there are also a lot of great content creators as well that need to be recognized.
  • 26 4
 Danny MacAskill is the typical Youtube athlete, isn't he? Maybe I'm just a tough cookie but his riding hasn't bothered me yet.
  • 20 6
 It's a slippery slope this one. "Influencer" content is objectively less good than race content. And before all the teenagers jump down my throat with claims that if people enjoy it then who am I to disagree, thats not what I'm getting at. What I am getting at is that you don't actually have to be good at bikes to be an influencer, you just have to be good at playing the algorithm, and in the long run that will prove to add little value to the world. Pushing the limits of what the human body or mind can achieve does add value to human existance. Playing the algorithm is really no more worthwhile than playing monopoly. So while I agree that the future of mking a living from mtb probably is the youtube/insta/whatever influencer route, I also belive that this is a net negative for the sport.
  • 7 3
 Hooray for "digital diabetes"!
  • 6 2
 @tbubier: Both Remi and Yoann raced at the top level before doing fulltime youtube, Remi in the DH world cup and Yoann in the EWS, so they kind of stand apart from most other creators on youtube. There are some great creators and story tellers in the space, but they are growing few and far between. Jordan Boostmaster is one that doesn't come from pro racing that I think makes some really good stuff for YouTube and if we had more like him, Remi Jesse Melamed, etc... things would be better,
  • 7 0
 @tbubier: I think the big difference is those creators focus on the riding, the experience, and the trails, much more than they focus on themselves being a personality.
  • 5 1
 @gabriel-mission9: To be honest I've got the feeling this phone and socials thing is on its return. More and more often I hear my daughters complain that they've invited friends and one or a few can't stay off their phone so they're considering to not invite them anymore. Similarly, my students are trying harder to stay off their phones and are attempting strategies like putting it further away or shifting it off when they need to study to resist the temptation to grab it without even thinking. Not sure whether it only happens in my bubble but at least these are sounds I haven't heard from youngsters in the past. Maybe they also just tired of screens during some pandemic. Of course the whole concept of "influencers" is daft. Why would you consciously choose to be influenced rather than make your own choice?
  • 13 3
 Careful, this exact (true) statement is what got the youtubers all riled up against pinkbike!
  • 4 0
 Favorite way to sort out who I follow on social media is if someone posts their landings. Got a clip of you riding? Post your landing.
  • 16 3
 Prediction: People will continue to get upset about something that they don't have to pay any attention to at all.
  • 10 1
 Not mentioning any names but there were quite a few riders I liked until they went down the YouTube path. As their channels grew they turned into big headed annoying pr!cks.
  • 2 2
 Athletes operate on a higher plain and tougher arena than dedicated influencers, and those that can do both well are a true rarity. Unfortunately influencer marketing is easier on the balance sheet for corporate than flying an athlete around the world to compete. I have always looked at and prioritized EWS results when shortlisting new rigs to buy, rather than paying attention to @jabroni_dude's new video.
  • 1 1
 Guys like Yoann, Remy etc. obviously being an exception and top of the YouTube game (those that played the game as athletes before going full time social) rather than the multitudes of lower tier influencers.
  • 9 0
 @vinay: not typical, Danny MacAskill is an EXPCEPTIONAL Youtube athele.
Gotta say that it was ok when it was new (or at least new to me), but watching you tube mtb gets old fast, even the very good guys uploading weekly or so.

What you say about your daughter and students is great and I hope it widespreads, I haven't seen sings of it myself, sadly.
  • 4 1
 @vinay: It may not seem like much, but this comment restored some of my faith in the kids.
  • 6 1
 I absolutely loath any video that has a catchy phrase on its cover screen shot like "Never do this.." or "5 things to not do while jumping..." etc... and as @AddisonEverett pointed out, videos where the poster is trying to be a "personality" in their videos, rather than letting the riding be the content. I will say though, and I'm glad Danny MacAskill's name was already mentioned, when people have reached the top of our sport so much so that they have attained icon status, then it is an awesome right of passage to say "I'm done competing, I'm just going to do videos now"; Brandon Semenuk comes to mind here as well, and we will clearly watch all of their videos without hesitation
  • 8 2
 @loam33: that’s because they put an emphasis on a well produced video as opposed to cranking pov go pro pieces. I’ll watch a well shot vid all day but can’t be bothered with the BK and Metallier vids no matter how good the riding is
  • 5 3
 All aboard the FuckPeakExpress
  • 4 2
 Saying YouTube athletes are the worst is just painting with too big a brush. Yeah I know there’s super banal MTB content out there, but Youtube has given a lot of legitimate professional athletes direct access to their own audience, as well as less traditional athletes who otherwise might not have any exposure. From Gee and Semenuk to Remi, Mark Matthews, and Nate Hills. All the good stuff in ski/snowboard and MTB has always happened in video format, not necessarily racing, and now you don’t have to go to a highschool theater to watch the premier because it’s all on YouTube. I’d say overall that’s net positive in my book.
  • 1 0
 "Vapid" Priceless. Indeed. Valid observation, but there is also an inner circle of excellent folks; like Alicia. Respect.
  • 5 2
 I watch "YouTube athletes" because some have amazing abilities far beyond mine. It's simply entertainment! Now, a play by play opening of a box of new stuff and weighing each part with no other content is simply advertising, and is of little value, at least to me.
Videos of how to do one's own maintenance has great value.
  • 6 0
 I think there is a distinction to be made between YouTube and social media. Producing YouTube content is much more involved than producing content for something like instagram.

Pushing out a weekly or even bi weekly web series at 15-20 minutes long per video is a decent amount of work and can also be very informative/entertaining.

Instagram content on the other hand is a bunch of 10 second reel, staged photos, and product placements, all of which is essentially useless.
  • 2 0
 @zyoungson: I think return on investment is the key here. What do the brands get for running an entire team for a season vs giving a influencer a free bike and maybe a bit of cash. I think raceing will dissappear unless the UCI accept the reality of the market and make it cheaper to race at a high level and also make a great package to be consumed preferably without a paywall to watch
  • 1 1
 They sell product. Consumers rarely wander into the shop asking if I watched the EDR highlights or can name their favourite EDR rider.

They ask if I saw the latest episode of Seth’s bike hacks or what I think of Bermed Peak.

When I started to investigate non-enthusiast mountain bike YouTube, it was a wild ride. But their view counts are staggering and consistent. Compared to Cole Lucas or Katy Winton riding about in the back field of a sport nobody cares about.
  • 4 4
 @bonfire: can’t argue with their reach and influence, Alicia is totally right but I still totally hate YouTubers, I pay for everything I ride so if I see them promoting something they got for free I won’t buy it
  • 1 0
 @sino428: Thats a fair assessment I think. I still think both are nothing compared to racing, but yeah Youtube > Insta, I'll give you that.
  • 2 1
 @AddisonEverett: I think the key point is that athletes and influencers are significantly different… average joe who has some camera skill and an abundance of time versus strength commitment skill which all athletes have. I think there is an old saying (as it refers to skiing) “those who can’t, teach…”. Same sort of thing as it relates to mtn biking “those who can’t, YouTube…”
  • 2 0
 @skidusty: Mountain Biking is kind of a unique space in sport as well, as there are a lot of people who ride, who aren't interested in competition in the slightest, or who aren't necessarily interested in progressing their own skills either. Even other sports that fall into that similar space like skate boarding, skiing, surfing, snowboarding, etc... Seem to me like a higher proportion of people who actively participate in it are interested in competition or at least pushing their limits, and the youtube space for those sports reflect that, and I enjoy more people in that space than I do in MTB youtube. Even the more vlog style content seems a bit more focused than MTB does. Helps that those are smaller communities that aren't growing as fast as MTB is.
  • 2 0
 @AddisonEverett: Saying Remi raced World Cups is a bit of a stretch seeing as he never qualified.
  • 3 0
 @Allen82: Agreed, some of them seem to have developed personas that only fans can appreciate.
  • 2 1
 @AddisonEverett: Remy’s Moab “apology” video was so cringey. “I made a mistake riding this illegal area, but I’m gonna show you all the footage and get views out of it anyway.” Done watching him after that, seems like a total a$$hat.
  • 1 3
 @bonfire: just because mediocre people prefer to watch other mediocre people because it’s relatable to them doesn’t make it better eyeroll>
  • 3 1
 @dthomp325: Nah, what was cringy was the BLM threatening him. I grew up riding in southern Utah, tons of Cryptobiotic soil in the area, they build trails through those places all the time. Not only that, but I didn't see any cryptobiotic soil in the video either, so he wasn't even harming it. It is also legal hike the rocks that he rode, and hiking cause the same amount of damage that riding it would. The BLM in Utah is pretty bad, poorly managed, and the whole thing seemed to me like someone there wanted to flex their muscles and feel like they had power.
  • 26 0
 "Next year will be better than this one." Best prediction ever!
  • 7 1
 Very different from the Russian saying, "this year was average, worse than last year but better than next year".
  • 2 0
 @The-Foiling-Optimist: first thing I thought of!
  • 2 10
flag tralebuilder (Dec 22, 2023 at 22:34) (Below Threshold)
 Completely baseless though.
  • 4 0
 @tralebuilder: I’m going to give you the benefit of doubt and assume you aren’t aware of the year Alicia has endured.
  • 1 9
flag tralebuilder (Dec 23, 2023 at 2:42) (Below Threshold)
 I assumed she was talking about the mtb industry not her personal affairs.
  • 27 6
 My predictions are, 160.3x12 super duper boost, internal top tube cable routing, AXS battery powered brakes, monthly subscription service for valve stems (if you don't pay, the valve opens and let's all the air in your tires out), oh and riding shoes with pins on the bottom that go into the pedals.
  • 4 2
 Hey at least you tried. I’ll give you that.
  • 3 0
 shoes with pins in the soles would be good for pushing your bike up an icy slope.
  • 5 0
 Reminds me of “The Animal!” RC truck I had when I was a kid and cat claws would come out of the tires when you turned a knob.
  • 16 0
 "YouTube and social media will continue to take over as the ways to succeed as an athlete." In many cases nowadays, as we say in french, the "make it known" is much more important than the "know how to make it" (not sure about the translation).
  • 10 0
 translation sounds pretty spot on
  • 8 1
 Maybe people will start caring about weight again. That is my prediction. All the effort to convince everyone weight doesn't matter convinces me that they fear they have gone too far. I'll still happily take a weight penalty for a coil, but not for no reason.
  • 4 0
 Bikes or bodies?
  • 1 0
 I think most people have always and still do care about weight, to some degree at least. True that the recent trend in the trade press and industry has been to downplay the growing bike weights as everything gets bigger. Weight penalty for a coil or more suitable tires is a tradeoff most will make. But if you have to choose between two equal bikes at an equal price with the only difference being a pound or kilo of weight, 99% will choose lighter.
  • 7 0
 I can see YouTube having increasing relevance. But social media platforms like Facebork and Insturdgram continue to go deeper down the 'enshittification' route. Scrolling through either of those two is like swimming through a sewerage drain where you're constantly getting passed by slimy nuggets of content you didn't ask for and don't want to see. You flail wildly hoping to grab onto a safety ladder of content posted by people you actually care about, but it's not there, it's already been washed away, never to return.
  • 3 0
 Isn't this the truth. While there is a ton of good content on social media it's outpaced many times over by what is just absolute garbage. Grifters, self help gurus, get rich quick scams, fake "outdoor" people, women promoting glute workouts, etc. Its astonishing how much time must be wasted producing all this trash.
  • 3 0
 @sino428: and all the computational power and and energy to have all those petabytes of crap endlessly stored and accessible.
  • 7 0
 Overlooked the clutch mechanism as an advancement in derailleurs in the past decade. While not earth shattering, still a definite improvement. I mean, when's the last time you dropped a chain?
  • 4 0
 Last week. Chain rings only last so long.
  • 6 0
 @somebody-else: Takes a loooooooooooooooong time to wear out a Narrow wide steel chainring.
  • 2 0
 If it’s not happening to you, it’s happening to somebody-else!
  • 2 1
 Clutch mech with a chain guide and narrow-wide chainring is the best. And a smooth freewheel obviously, otherwise you'll still get a slack upper part of the chain when coasting.
  • 2 0
 @somebody-else: which is why regardless of how good chainrings and or derailers get , I always run at least a minimal chain guide. Been riding in racing for way too long. Even the best chamber tension, chainrings and derailers sometimes drop chains if you don't have a guide to keep it on..
  • 2 0
 I absolutely agree
  • 5 4
 Not sure when the author started riding bikes but drivetrain situation has change massively over last 20 years. In 2000 most bikes had 3x8 setups that dropped chains constantly, wore out super fast and broke all the time. 1x12 clutched drivetrains are light years ahead.

People love to go on about gearboxes but they only make sense on e-bikes where the motor can compensate for the added drag. Humans can’t make enough power to compensate.
  • 2 1
 @stubs179: derailleurs are much better now, but they're essentially the same. Change has been incremental. An MTBer waking from a 20-yr coma could recognize everything on a modern drivetrain.
  • 1 0
 @bman33: my big bike has a sxg but the smaller bike had nothing (no tabs). Sold it lol
  • 2 2
 @pmhobson: a person waking from a 100yr coma could recognize a new car. But they are worlds better than they were 100yrs ago. Mtb drivetrains may look similar but they function so much better than they did 20yrs ago. I don’t even understand how it could be an argument? Nothing exists to transfer energy from a humans feet to the rear hub of a bicycle more efficiently than a chain and sprockets. Nothing even comes close so they will be around for a long time to come on bikes without motors.
  • 1 0
 @stubs179: not sure why you’re preaching the merits (efficiency) of drivetrains. Consider me the choir in that regard.
  • 5 0
 i'm no financial wizard but how does the industry see the record spike in sales and not associate it with everything going on at that particular time? i knew it wasn't gonna have the staying power and i know a lot of other people knew that too. it wasn't a secret that due to covid people were finding inspiration to take to the outdoors and of course mtb saw benefit in that. but even then, once you buy a bike, you're probably not going to buy another just like that. (i realize that might not apply in the PB comments section, but the general public hears me mention a $6k bike and they gasp. and i also realize that a $6k bike is something ridiculous in its own right but that's a discussion for another time. point is, most people buy a bike and they're just fine with it for a long enough time to not buy another.) anyway, happy new year PB and alicia and keep on keepin on. or don't. its a comment section.
  • 7 1
 So you think they didn’t know it too? Of course they did, but that doesn’t mean it was easy to manage. The supply chain was supremely f*cked, leaving many companies to chose between decisions that were questionable at best and terrible at worst. There were no easy answers here for some of these companies.

It’s silly to sit here and just say they were greedy and never saw this coming but thats almost certainly not the case.
  • 3 2
 @sino428: of course its a more complicated issue than being greedy. like i said, i don't know much about the industry on this level it just strikes me as something you would want to mitigate (b/c you know its coming) as much as possible before the reckoning that sadly will come (and has) for some companies. from my armchair perspective it looked like a disaster waiting to happen and i'm merely a consumer. that being said, there's BOGO bikes for people to buy which is good for the sport (longer discussion for sure but lets stay somewhat positive), possibly OK for the companies, and hopefully for trail advocacy (more voices, anyway). perhaps the ebike revolution has some play in this ongoing shift in the industry, which is something talked about extensively in these chats and worth exploring.
  • 11 0
 I worked for a brand that starts with T during the Covid boom time and we were forced to sit through an 8 hour presentation called Winning The Season where they blithely preached to us that the sudden massive increase in demand was all down to their amazing foresight and hardwork. That it was a super exciting amazing time to be alive (unless you were dying) and it was our duty as employees to work super hard to not let them down.
  • 2 0
 Would a bike company be in bigger trouble now if they were overstocked like everyone else, of if they had the perfect stock level but still had to massively discount because everyone else was? I don't know the answer to that question but I certainly wouldn't be surprised if overstocking turns out to be the best strategy
  • 2 0
 @jacks0n0: it's not a strategy. It's a result of the manufacturers forcing large orders during COVID times to get any stock.
  • 2 0
 @jacks0n0: that’s a good point. I hadn’t even really thought about that. Everyone is just assuming that every company discounting their bikes now has some massive overstock. But in reality if only a few larger brands have an overstock and start discounting, then most brands will have to follow to compete, even if their inventory levels are normal. Otherwise they would soon end up with an overstock themselves.
  • 1 0
 @Ososmash: @jacks0n0 this is what I understood as well. Everything went sideways and many of the factories in Asia shut down and at the same time demand for bikes was going up like crazy. As the factories came back up, they determined that large orders would be prioritized (smart from a business sense). So companies had to commit to large quantities of product or take the chance you wouldn't get any product.
I'm sure they realized it was a gamble, but seems like the choice was to accept failure or buy a ton of product and hope you can sell it before the crash back to normal.
  • 1 0
 @Ososmash: Were manufacturers forcing large orders, or forced into large orders? If a factory says "X company wants 3 million in product, you're going to have to top that if you want us to supply you with parts", now Y company has to place an even bigger order to get priority.

It was all a total cluster f*ck. Really the only people to blame is everyone for choosing to ignore this potentially charlie foxtrot, and who are already forgetting that another pandemic is going to happen with certainty.
  • 8 2
 Next year could definitely be worse than this year. It's an election year (in the USA).
  • 3 2
 Would highly doubt it. Bunch of fake news from the previous administration, but we’ve been dealing with that for 7 years now.
  • 2 0
 It can always be a worse year, depends where you choose to focus.
  • 1 0
 Yeah, definitely not excited about 2024, especially at the end of it. And particularly not the beginning of 2025.
  • 5 2
 I honestly see alot of work being done with Hubs and how they engage & effect Chain growth reactions, Ive Often Tried other peoples 'nice' wheel builds with high POI etc & they all instantly Generate more Pedal feedback - On Short travel bikes its beneficial as It helps with anti squat/pumping the bike(Compressing suspension provides forward motion)

I've Offerd a heap of people free time to gain one big 'downhill' improvement, Easy to do on DT swiss which is often who i target most with this, when they have a 54T, drop them to an 18T - they ALWAYS say "OMG The bike just floats through stuff , its like riding a different bike" - well duh your weight isnt working against the suspension via the drivetrain.

the 36T is a good middle ground but i still swap out to 18's for the bike park.

Climbing, especially tech is a different argument all together and not what im discussing.

(well of course this is true, Thats EXACTLY why the O-Chain is so popular)
  • 3 5
 Hasn’t this been disproven a bunch of times? Also there is no consistency in how quickly a low engagement hub engages.

An 18t ratchet provides up to 20 degrees of engagement, but could also at any instant be 1 degree away from engaging. You don’t have some constant 20 degrees of float. In reality you have completely random engagement points anywhere between 0-20 at any given moment.
  • 6 3
 @sino428: Its been proven many times, hence O-chains lol.

Your last sentence proves my arguement, anywhere between 0-20degrees, leaving a heap of 'slack' in the which in turn provides less sudden kick.

Im not going to argue it, Go get a cheap dtswiss ratchet wheel, put in 18, ride it... then try the 54(these can be done trail side) you will instantly notice the feedback esepecially over rougher sections. - jump back to the 18 and the bike will instantly feel smoother.

Honestly - I argued the other way, like you. I just HAD to have those loud high engagement hubs, untill i rode a stock version of the same bike, (setup basically the same) I wasnt convinced though, so i spoke to some Pro's last summer in skyline/queenstown who were sponsored by a high engagement hub brand he said "yep they are damn good but that is just something we have to deal with"
Thats when I bought a new dtswiss wheel and tried it myself.
  • 6 5
 @HeatedRotor: it hasn’t been proven many times over, lol. Marketing materials from ochain aren’t proof.

I’ve ridden all types of hubs from cheap 18 point engagement hubs, to spanks with 102 points, i9s with nearly infinite engagement and felt no difference in how smooth the bike was because at anything above a slow cruise the wheel is moving too fast for pedal kickback to exist.

Also you are not grasping how the ‘Slack’ in the slow engagement hubs works. You don’t consistently have 20 degrees of slack in the system. The pedals could just as easily be 1 degree from engaging as it is 20 degrees from engaging at any point in time. Meaning on one bump your hub may react like a sloppy 18 point , and on the next engage immediately and feel no different than than an I9.

It’s not like an ochain where it’s giving you a consistent amount of slack the entire time.
  • 5 0
 @sino428: @HeatedRotor Hi guys, You are both Right, the consistency in hub engagement is as sino mentioned is not perfect, We've Been testing some prototype Mechanisms That will Be For DH bikes that has benefits of High engagement and will have degrees of movement for Suspension 'shock' Which is what Heatedrotor is talking about.

Heatedrotor is right in that hubs do play quite a roll in Pedal feel especially When you are at that 'near locked' part of your braking - This is made extreme by bikes Like the ST EVO, that has High anti squat combined with a Linear standard tune on both the design and shock.(using this as an example as its a popular mainstream bike)

Sino, Your thinking is correct but on a rough track overal the average feel is better - We've tried All types of setups with our Sessions over the years and while the latest iteration is better, We feel we can run a low Engagement hub instead of O'chain.

The O'chain, yes is more consistent as it only has one job, However if you cant get or doesnt fit, a low engagement hub is an easier and cheaper option.
  • 2 5
 @mtbtrekracer: I understand there may be some limited times where pedal kickback is real, but they are going to be very limited situations. Mainly being like you mentioned where the brake is locking the wheel. But the situations where you are locking the rear wheel and compressing the suspension at the same time are pretty rare. Usually heavy braking will unweight the suspension not compress it.

My point was simply that there is no way you instantly notice a low engagement hub being smoother, or that it makes it feel like a different bike, or the bike just suddenly starts floating over rough stuff. All things other commenter was claiming.

I mean think about it, for the engagement of the hub to matter in regards to pedal kickback the cassette has to pull the cranks backward with the chain, meaning the upper chain would need to be pulled tight and under tension. Now think about any time you’ve ever watched slow motion video of a bike riding through rough terrain. What’s the upper chain doing? It’s flopping and slapping all over the place, meaning it’s not under tension and can’t possibly be causing pedal kickback.

If a sloppy hub was continuously preventing pedal kickback there would be no chain slap since the chain would have to be tight the whole time. But again we know that’s just not the case as we know the chain is flopping all over the place.
  • 5 1
 @sino428: Our Riders Have reported immediate Change in the feel of the two.(when we tested them)
Id happily say we Employee some of the best Riders and being a mechanic for them has been great.
Have you heard of Wheel rock? going between locked in the air as it skips and then moves again when touching the ground with the same pressure applied - when this happens very quickly you get consistent feed back.

I believe was mentioned in the first post but Maybe you need to try it - it appears he did & has shown others with similar results.
There is some theory in here which you have some valid points and I see What you are thinking which is why I believe you need to test it yourself.

We dont use DTSWISS wheels so cannot swap out as easily but that does sound like an easy way to test the two different ideas.
  • 6 0
 @mtbtrekracer: Thanks for the input, Sometimes things are easier to show people
  • 2 5
 @mtbtrekracer: if the wheel is in the air when it locks the rear suspension is unweighted and likely extending not compressing, so that can’t cause kickback.

And if the wheel moves again as it hits the ground the forward motion of the wheel will allow the cassette to move forward and add slack to the chain, again meaning there isn’t going to be kickback from the suspension.

Watch this slow motion video of WC riders. Slow down the playback even more and you can see clear as day that even when the wheels skip and lock in the air the upper chain is still slack and flopping around meaning there is no kickback.

youtu.be/g--ii3TpHEQ?si=37gPAhq_nxs5ggwf

I’m not saying kickback doesn’t exist. It just only can happen in very limited situations when coasting (climbing/pedaling is a different conversation). Mainly these situations are a super slow drop to flat or essentially panic braking into a bumpy section. Certainly nothing thats going to immediately make a low engagement hub improve suspension performance. The science just doesn’t back it up.

Maybe it’s just the low engagement hub has less drag, or its quieter which they tend to be that makes it feel smoother.

Something like an ochain which introduces the slack in the slider itself can offer some benefits that a low engagement cannot as it works in a different way.
  • 4 0
 @sino428: Come see us at any of the stops next year, First is Fort william in may. - Redbull have all the DH dates listed.
I'll happily explain to you and show some examples of what we've tested other than the prototype stuff.

You can continue to discuss here but I will take raw Rider and data feedback over PB comments, thanks though Smile

Note: please find a wheel suitable and test it before hand, you will be pleasantly surprised.
  • 2 2
 @mtbtrekracer: thanks but I’ve ridden all kinds of wheels with all types of engagement and never noticed any difference in suspension performance.

I hope whatever you are developing works out. Depending on what it is I don’t doubt that it can actually make the bike feel better. Almost everyone (even top pros) say an ochain makes the bike feel better too. I don’t doubt it. I just don’t think it has much to do with pedal kickback.

The objective data like math, physics, and video evidence says that it likely has very little to do with pedal kickback and is due to something else, most likely damping of vibration of the chain itself flopping around and pulling on the drivetrain.
  • 7 0
 Hell Yeah Alicia!
  • 2 0
 If YouTube and social media in general take over as the main source of mountain bike professions then there needs to be a SEVERE revision to the way a lot of influencers make their content. It's become so mediocre with the influx of people wanting to get onto that influencer train.
  • 5 0
 Gearbox all the things!! My next bike will have a Pinion and a belt.
  • 4 0
 Nate Hills is an undercover CIA agent posing as a rad MTBer…..shhhhh….don’t tell.
  • 3 2
 I struggle with the importance of Social Media replacing competition as a pathway to success as a pro rider. Now the real measure of success is the gift of the gab rather than the highest level of rider talent. Would guys like Semenuk be as successful as they are now if your main pathway was creating your own social media following and content from the get go? He proved himself as one of the most talented riders in the world through competition. It's my understanding that he isn't a guy that would be a typical social butterfly that would plaster themselves all over social media by his own accord (sure, he has plenty of material now, but that's an already golden chicken laying golden eggs)

Basically, is someone that could be the best rider in the world, not get an opportunity to shine because they are a bit ont he shy side, or wants to spend more time riding than editing content.
  • 1 0
 I hear you on this. When I look at the social presence that even the top level pro racers have to keep up to appease their sponsors, I'm almost a little glad I don't get paid to ride bikes.
  • 3 0
 This resonates with me deeply. When I was racing MTB back in 1999-2008 ish I was able to get a good amount of sponsors based on a racing results. Moved to RZR racing in 2012 and had decent luck getting sponsors but they started to ask about social media presence (which is very minimal). Went to racing cars in 2016 and all anyone asked was “number of followers”. Won every race in 2016 and went to Pikes Peak in 2017 and the main concern was still “how many followers” - results didn’t matter at all.

The social media rider ambassador movement (not the ex pro legit racers - the social media only people) is not my favorite.
  • 1 0
 See Caleb holonko. His edits are absolutely insane, and he does have sponsors, but he’s nowhere near as well known and he would be if he used social media more.
  • 1 0
 @NoahJ: Greatness combined with humility, conviction to principles (i.e. not being an algorithm wh@re), or both is rare to see these days. Some people have no problem seizing the opportunity to prosper in the current environment and that’s fine as well. I prefer the former type of athlete, but it’s likely a reflection of my own personality and biases.
  • 1 0
 @Stihlgoin: I fully agree. I wasn’t saying it was bad, in fact I have more respect for Caleb than any other pro especially those with YouTube channels. It’s really cool to see someone stick to their values in spite of everything telling you otherwise
  • 1 0
 @NoahJ: Caleb is an absolute beast. I am glad he hasn’t fallen into the social media trap. It makes his edits more special.
  • 1 0
 @Stihlgoin: it really does. The rarer something is the more valuable it is
  • 1 0
 @meathooker: Sick Evo. You ever come down to race Utah Motorsports park?
  • 1 0
 @motts: couple times a year. main track car is a c6z but we’ll bring the evo for shakedown. We also used to race the Lucas oil short cours track at UMC. Love that place!
  • 1 0
 That new Pinion electronic shifting gearbox looks super slick, idk how many people even know it exists. And wow I just read your 1 year update post you linked. Came for an injury update and stayed for the paragliding details. I never even considered before now that you're allowed to just go jump off of stuff while attached to a little plane. I want to try it now!
  • 1 0
 Seeing the first image of the udh makes me question why shimanos direct mount standard and syntaces x12 standard hanger never made it?
The first definately puts the derailleur in a better position for shifting performance with less use of material. The latter was an excellent solution whilst still providing a breakaway DH. How is the sram derailleur supposed to break away without being wrecked?
  • 1 0
 @Ynotgorilla the derailleur is supposed to move in when it takes a hard hit instead of transferring energy into the frame. How did you miss all the people standing on their derailleurs when this came out ?
  • 1 0
 >> [drivetrains] stayed profoundly boring, working essentially the same way it always has.

I don't necessarily agree with this (we've had some amazing incremental changes that are having a big impact in the past few years), but if only more things in the bike world (and technology in general) considered this a feature, not a defect we'd be in a much better place on a global scale.
  • 5 4
 Sorry everyone. I just don’t think gearboxes will ever be a thing. People have been talking about gearboxes like the second coming since forever. I just don’t see it ever taking off. Enjoy your Transmission.
  • 2 1
 I’m riding one now, it’s my second Pinion, got a third one on order … seems like the second coming is around the corner Smile
  • 2 0
 @sanchofula: Well, I guess there’s you… and maybe a dozen others on this site of millions. We are well on our way!
  • 2 0
 Why not organize an expensive, complicated, international marketing exercise and then charge a prohibitive fee that inhibits your customers ability to watch?
  • 3 0
 The bicycle industry will crash k 2024.
  • 2 0
 Narrow wide Chainrings are a pretty massive drivetrain improvement.
  • 2 0
 I agree, but considering that other industries have been using the idea for decades, the fact that SRAM and RF spent millions on legal fees to argue about it pisses me off! How about SRAM just admits it wasn't an original idea, and invest the lawyer money in other ways to promote the sport.
  • 1 0
 @DGoss: on one hand I wanna be like “if it’s such a good idea why didn’t anymore make it earlier?”, but on the other hand, there are 2, maybe 3 companies that have the size and breadth to just say “hey, this new chain we just released is now the default design for all 11 speed going forward” and be successful in that. Don’t even get me started on re-doing derailleur hangers, dropout constraints, hub width spacing and chainline needs on the frames themselves 6 months before they hit the market, companies SHOULD be scared to try something like that
  • 2 0
 Is Nate Hills a Pro Rider or a YouTuber?
  • 2 0
 Yes
  • 3 2
 Please can we stop calling YouTubers ‘athletes’?
  • 3 1
 They obviously are impressive in their own rights as YouTubers. Some athletes do YouTube but I’m sure see themselves primarily as an Athlete (eg Bernard) but there are plenty of YouTubers who definitely shouldn’t be called athletes because they can edit some videos
  • 2 0
 umm keep ridin bicis Smile
  • 1 0
 24-25...we find out whos been allocated in digital assets correctly.
  • 1 2
 Dope and







Copyright © 2000 - 2024. Pinkbike.com. All rights reserved.
dv42 0.045103
Mobile Version of Website