FOX's Racing Application Development program (
RAD for short) has been responsible for a number of advancements throughout their product lineup, all of which have their origins between the tape and under some of the world's fastest racers. And while the three letter acronym only began to be applied in late 2011, many of their products from previous years can be credited to the same development and testing strategy that has been laid out to deliver the best possible suspension to their sponsored athletes. ''
The purpose of the Racing Applications Development program is to give our elite athletes an advantage through products and technologies,'' Mark Fitzsimmons, FOX's Race Program Manager, explained to us. This means that their racers are often on prototype versions of shocks and forks that may one day turn into production units - the FOX 40 is a good example of this - or might never see the light of day. Take the
inverted FOX downhill fork that Gee Atherton tested awhile back, a prototype that was constructed to see if they could assemble an inverted chassis that would offer enough torsional rigidity for a pro-level downhill racer. While the fork garnered an incredible amount of attention, the project was eventually scrapped when it became clear that the fork's weight would balloon too high due to the added material required to achieve their stiffness goals.
A more recent example of the RAD program's reach would be the wild
prototype downhill shocks that were raced at World Championships in South Africa this year. The four-way adjustable shocks, which FOX estimates cost around $5,000 USD each to produce, don't resemble a production DHX RC4 in the slightest, and it is still up in the air as to if we'll ever see a production version. Why would FOX put so much effort towards something that they might not ever sell to consumers? ''
Product development is an evolutionary process,'' says Fitzsimmons. ''
We are constantly learning, and as we do we inject the technology advancements into the RAD products to learn more.'' That means that although the general consumer might not ever get the RAD treatment, there is a chance that the fork or shock they end up using down the road will have benefited from the work that riders like Peat, Minnaar, and Graves, as well as FOX's engineers, have put into it.
FOX 34 RAD Details:• Intended use: enduro racing
• Travel: 150mm
• Wheel size: 29''
• Prototype RAD CTD damper
• Lightweight 'Kabolt' 15mm axle
• Availability: N/A
• MSRP: N/A
That same development approach is being applied to the FOX 34 RAD fork that we spent a day testing on Sedona, Arizona's rough and rocky trails, and the fork on the front of our Specialized Enduro is in fact pretty much the same model that Aaron Gwin used to win the Sea Otter downhill, and that BMC enduro racer Aaron Bradford uses on the front of his 150mm travel Trailfox TF01. While the RAD 34 is likely going to offer some advantages to a top tier racer, it is a reasonable question to ask if such a fork makes sense for the average rider. ''
A lot of what we learn through the RAD program is considered for production, but many times what an elite World Cup racer wants is not necessarily what a consumer wants, or even what an elite racer would want to ride on a regular basis,'' Fitzsimmons explained to us.
''With the 34, it is a combination of both. Right now we are learning what our top enduro racers need, and in doing so we are developing new damping tunes, lower friction seals, etc. Eventually, what we learn will be considered for production forks.'' FOX's 2014 forks are a good example of such development work, and Fitzsimmons also told us that there is a good chance that certain RAD-level products might be available as aftermarket upgrades in the near future. While FOX was a little vague on what exactly that may encompass, it might mean that one could purchase anything from the lightweight, anodized gold 'Kabolt' thru-axle to possibly even a full-on RAD damper cartridge.
| As we see it, the RAD program is for athletes to aspire to. And for us, it is a way of globally identifying the best of the best and who our engineering team needs to focus on working with in the development process. For us, the ultimate marketing tool is winning and a product that allows a rider the confidence to push a little bit more. - Mark Fitzsimmons, FOX Race Program Manager |
At roughly $5,000 a pop to manufacture, FOX's prototype DH shocks are about as trick as it gets. Greg Minnaar used one of the shocks shown above on his World Champs winning run.
What Makes a RAD Fork RAD?With only a set of red and white RAD stickers on the fork's lowers that hint at it being something special, the 150mm travel RAD 34 shown here may not look like anything out of the ordinary. In fact, the fork's CSU, Kashima coated stanchions, and magnesium lowers are all straight off of the production line, while its anodized gold axle is most certainly not. The 15mm thru-axle, dubbed the 'Kabolt' after Canadian cross-country racer Geoff Kabush who requested a lighter weight setup without the standard QR lever, reportedly saves upwards of forty grams over a production 15QR thru-axle. That might be small beans to most riders but it's a worthwhile figure on a race bike that sees nearly all of its hardware replaced with titanium and aluminum aftermarket bits to create the lightest possible race weapon. But while the Kabolt might be neat, it's what's on the inside of the RAD 34 that makes it special.
The RAD stickers and anodized gold axle are the only hints that our test fork is something special
Is the Damper Different?We've spent some solid time on FOX's 2014 CTD equipped forks and have come away very impressed with how controlled the stroke is compared to the previous year's offerings, but it's safe to say that the RAD version of the damper isn't the same animal. The external stock CTD dials atop the right fork leg don't give anything away, however, and if you were to remove the CTD damper from the fork you'd find that it looks exactly the same as what's used within a production fork. It's a different story when it comes to the cartridge's inner workings, though, with a much more advanced layout that has been designed to provide enough support for a pro-level racer without taking away from the fork's ability to absorb the terrain. This has been accomplished by way of lighter damping at slower damper shaft speeds (
think low-speed compressions like landing on a transition or applying the front brake) when the fork is set to its wide open 'Descend' setting, and while you might suspect that sort of setup would make for a fork that dives into its travel, the engineers at FOX have employed a mid-valve to help keep the it standing tall. What exactly is a mid-valve? While FOX wasn't about to delve deep into their pro-only RAD fork's inner workings, a mid-valve is essentially another set of shims and a check valve that sits behind the rebound piston to provide added low-speed compression damping. This certainly isn't a new concept, with it being relatively common in the world of motorbike suspension, and they are beginning to be employed more often on mountain bike suspension as well, despite the added complexity and cost that it takes to properly utilize them. The RAD damper also features more progressive damping at higher shaft speeds to help take the sting out of square edge impacts and flat landings that happen at pro-level speeds.
Production TALAS and CTD dials don't give anything away as to what's inside.
Slick TricksThe RAD trickery doesn't end with the shims, though, as FOX's engineers go to great lengths to lower the fork's coefficient of friction in an effort to have it feel as slippery and active as possible. That begins with new dynamic seals throughout the fork that use an updated shape. FOX says that these seals, which require completely different seal bore dimensions and are therefore only on non-production RAD forks, significantly lower both breakaway and active friction within the fork. RAD models also see their damper rods given the Kashima treatment (
ours was missing this upgrade, though), something that is only available to consumers on 2014 model year 40s, as well as new 20 wt. gold lubrication oil that testing has shown goes a long way to make for a more active stroke. One trick that wasn't done to our fork but that their top racers receive is having the bushings opened up ever so slightly by hand to further improve its action. According to FOX, the revised seals, Kashima coated rods, and new lube oil has meant that their racers are able to run roughly 10 PSI higher pressures without sacrificing any small bump sensitivity at all, an important fact when you consider how important that can be when talking about traction. Interestingly, the air spring side of the fork is entirely stock, with some team riders using oil volume to dial-in the progressiveness that they're looking for.
Getting RAD on the TrailSo, how does an ultra exclusive fork that has been assembled with the world's best racers in mind perform on the trail? Pretty damn well, as you might likely expect. When it comes down to it, suspension is always about compromises, with it being a balancing act between the shock or fork's available settings. Want a more active, supple stroke from your fork? That'll likely mean that it will also dive more into its travel when you're on the brakes or rolling into a steep pitch. More ramp-up to prevent hard bottoming? You might not get all your travel as often as you should. Similar give and takes make up a fork's performance throughout its entire range, but the balancing act becomes less and less pronounced (
or at least it should) as the fork moves up in both hierarchy and cost. This becomes clear when you compare an entry level fork with a higher-end model that offers more control over damper settings, likely better tolerances throughout, and possibly a price tag with an extra digit to show for it all. All of the same can be said of the exceptionally rare RAD-spec FOX 34 FIT CTD shown here, minus the added cost because you simply can't purchase this fork regardless of how much money you walk into FOX's California headquarters with. But if you could get your hands on one of these, you'd quickly realize that the real advantage to the RAD 34 is how it manages to not compromise certain aspects of its performance nearly as much as a production fork, meaning that racers who have access to FOX's RAD program get to have their cake and eat it too.
Mark Fitzsimmons, FOX's Race Program Manager, installs the RAD 34 onto the front of our Enduro in the field.
That "cake" we're talking about refers to how the stiction at the top of the fork's stroke is implausibly low, with it making even the most active of production forks feel as if it was using sand for lubrication. And keep in mind that the RAD 34 that we rode didn't make use of a Kashima treated damper rod or bushings that have been opened up ever so slightly by hand, just the new dynamic seals and 20 wt. lube oil. Clichéd words like silky, supple, and smooth all jump to mind, but none of them really do any justice to how eager the RAD 34 is to slip into its stroke. How is FOX able to create a fork that is more sensitive than anything we've previously ridden? Those new seals and the lube oil change certainly help that cause but FOX puts a lot of it down to damper setup, which brings us back to that conversation about compromises. The RAD-spec damper's lighter low-speed compression setting, along with its trick mid-valve, holds the fork up high in its travel while also allowing it to be supple enough to take in and erase the smallest of impacts, and it's the type of performance that is literally the best of both worlds. We were actually convinced that the fork was both slightly under-sprung and under-damped after the initial setup and before hitting the test run but we ended up being proven completely wrong. Tune your own fork to be as supple as the RAD 34 and you'll likely end up plunging into three quarters of its travel every time you pull the front brake lever or roll into the steeps, yet FOX has managed to create a stable yet unbelievably supple stroke to their pro-level offering.
Fitzsimmons kept track of our settings throughout the day, with us running through short sections of rough trail with drastically different damper and spring setups to see how it affected the ride.
Running deeper into the fork's travel revealed a very controlled feel, with it never coming off as being overwhelmed when a bad line choice meant a head on collision with an immoveable rock was unavoidable. The RAD 34's O-ring told us that yes, we were going deep into the fork's stroke, but it was far less of a jolt than we would have expected. There was also noticeably less energy transferred through the bars during high-speed compression moments, with the fork doing well to mute square edges and flat landings in a way that a stock slider could only dream of. The difference couldn't even be called subtle, to be honest, and it took pointing it through a few taxing sessions to confirm that what we were feeling was real - this 150mm travel fork feels like it has at least an extra 10 or 20mm on hand to deal with those "oh shit" moments that pop up in a race situation. This was especially apparent when pushing hard while the fork was set to its stiffer 'Trail' setting, with it offering a more open and forgiving feel than the stock 34 without sacrificing any control.
| A lot of what we learn through the RAD program is considered for production but many times what an elite World Cup racers wants is not necessarily what a consumer wants, or even what an elite racer would want to ride on a regular basis. - Mark Fitzsimmons, Race Program Manager |
Gwin taking his RAD 34 to the Sea Otter podium.
www.ridefox.com
@gerhards: That's exaclty what I mean: Fox is always trying to reclaim their premium status through tech-heavy markeing strategies claiming the obvoius or the old as breaktrough technology.
I think this turned into two separate arguements, so lets bring it back down:
First, the shocks in the photo arent yet production pieces, and they arent on the retail market, so they technically dont even have a price.
Second, while costs to machine pieces might be low, several high cost elements come into play. Things dont design themselves, in fact usually you could expect 1 or 2 engineers working with a product developer, add on professional testers (athletes), and suddenly the cost on the very first unit is all of those salaries combined. Add on to that the cost to have other parts molded or 3d printed for say even a dozen prototypes... can you start to see where it might get expensive to just make a few of something?
Look deeper than the surface.
Manitou, are you listening? Bring us the Mattoc asap!
I feel like they do perform really well, but at the cost of good seals.
They had their moment (2009-2011), also because RS was slacking a bit at that point but recently they didn't exactly lead the way when it comes to innovation or quality (CTD b.s., stiff seals, underdamped etc).
Their marketing is top notch though, as your comment proves..
Got your new internals installed already? Jeez my shop lags...
But what Fox failed to advise pink bike readers with that story is that the deal is NOT a world wide offer. I've been chasing fox Australia intensely for 6 months now, and they have no knowledge of such a deal or any possible performance issues with the 2013 talas fork. i got me a $1000 paper weight, that's going to hit eBay cheap!
Any one want a set of 09 Marz 55r forks too, i'll do a package deal. I can sure pick them .... Dooh!
(Ps: just had to finally sign up to PB to vent that one! )
But I find it a little confusing that the say the equipment they sell to end users has nothing to do with what their sponsored riders use to win races and then point out that winning races is the ultimate maketing tool giving riders confidence?
so they make dialed team rider dampers and retail dampers that have a lot to be desired (2013 CTD?)
mid valve? shim stack tweaking is not news or some kind of secret, it is an art.
"gold" lubrication oil... you decide
"open up the bushings by hand" well if production tolerances are so poor, but good luck doing that by hand
"FOX Racing Shox forks use hydrodynamic lubrication. This system force feeds oil into the tall, slotted bushings during the compression stroke. When the fork cycles up and down, the oil is trapped between bushings, upper tubes and seals.
Thermal expansion rates can cause the bushings to close in on the upper tubes, causing high friction and binding during normal operation. Correct bushing clearance is critical to prevent binding of the fork during normal operation."
Geometric dimensioning and tolerance is a design practice used to ensure parts will work/fit during the manufacturing process. Bushings are sized before installation and re-checked for size after installation. Correct bushing tolerance is a diametric clearance of 0.0015”– 0.0090”.
^quoted from ridefox.com
either way some of the FOX kit is good and some not so good. but their marketing is entertaining if you like that kind of stuff.
lets hope they develop something for the everyday riders,privateers and teams without sponsorship that can be tweaked and serviced easily like the stuff that another manufacturer was talking about..
ReallyAtrociousDrivel.. ?
Also 5000 for a damper? That includes an awful lot of corporate overhead for 20$ of parts?
Midvalve? Hole drilled at half stroke? Thats around for at least 70 years...
It sounds like their production is horribly unprecise, machining introduced imperfection and they have to handmatch bushings, stanchions and take the play out of it with stiff seals. Not very confidence inspiring - RS seems to do a little better.
Oil is oil is oil - a bike oil damper is a slow moving device and low heat generation, you could run them with crisco.
Techaward goes to Fox:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z86V_ICUCD4
Just go back 2 years to the future, Fox...
It's a molybdium-disulphide coating.
It's used a lot in the moto industry for anything made from aluminum that needs to be extra hard, low friction or super had waring. It's not just a fox thing. It's proven vastly.
about every suspension set-up brief you'll read will say, "Suspension settings vary to personal taste".. this is not achieved thru 1 setting per trail type...
Motion Control and Mission Control both actually share the TPC layout, but are emulsion dampers (no IFP/bladder separating oil from air) unlike the Pure system, which was actually most like the Dorado's sealed and bled TPC+ cartridge (other TPC+ carts were emulsion based too). MoCo and MiCo have (or had) various distinguishing features that allowed them to get around the Answer/Manitou patents - such as the plastic flexible compression assembly and the lockout mechanism in the original Mission Control system (found in the Totem). They subsequently dropped the lockout mechanism for the Mission Control DH (as found in the Lyrik and Boxxer) - I can only assume that Manitou's TPC patents have expired if the MiCo DH isn't causing lawsuits anywhere, because its layout essentially is exactly what TPC was (13+ years ago).
Why or how do they make such reliable rear shocks but such crappy forks?
I once got a new 40 with kashima legs, when new the first inch of travel felt impressively smooth but after just a couple days of mud runs they didn't feel so great. But the pros get their FOX forks constantly maintained so that marketing tool of winning races isn't really a true test of their product.
FOX forks are partly unreliable because they don't have much oil volume in them (same problem as Avid brakes actually) to keep the weight down. FOX also makes low stiction a priority over having a reliable sealing system, this is very evident from their own marketing, articles like this one, and from scratched staunchions seen over and over again by regular customers.
There will always be trade-offs when it comes to fork performance, but the article failed to mention that reliability is also a crucial aspect of fork performance. Until they improve their reliability of their forks and reduce the maintenance intervals they are just a marketing pretender and not a real contender.
I do agree that Fox charges a premium for being more plush, but i think that the premium is ok when you pay it for avoiding back or shoulders pain or accidents and more comfort ride.
I also prefer the RLC setup than the new CTD one, however beginners struggle to dial-in the RLC ones and prefer the simpler CTD setup.
Is it a special technic than can be done only by trained specialists?
Fox got it's a$$ kicked so bad by the new Pike, just as they were releasing the 2013 garbage.
I like the fact that Fox states "This is a fork for enduro racers" Good idea make a fork that tailors to one group of riders. I have ridden peoples forks set up for racing. Feels nothing like a trail fork nor should it.
Go to a machine shop and say build me a shock heres the plans. Expect to spend about ten grand.............Fox got those shocks for cheap!
I usually read a review/ad because I might purchase the product. A review/ad about a product that isn't available to the consumer?
What's the point?
Similar to how specialized missed the 650b boat... oem orders will save their(fox) asses short term.
CCDB has 4way and they cost us what 1k
Fox......unveil your secrets of this 5k shock please
"I am going to fill your head with ideas and take all your money"
Fox is just great at marketing
And he does it while wearing a helmet, safety first folks.
The pecking order for mountain bike suspensions.
I work in th suspension service industry. I tend to know what's up when it comes to these sorts of things.
I'd ride an x-fusion over a RS fork any day of the week, and a fox over an x-fusion. Have you noticed what company all professional mtb athletes turn to when they're sponsor's suspension isn't cutting it for them? The answer is fox.
Or perhaps you are just one of the army of Fux shills out doing damage control?
My Pike is so vastly superior to the Fux’s 2013 fork I had its not even funny. Actually its insulting to customers who bought Fux forks.
I doubt I will ever own a Fux fork again, I certainly will try to avoid buying a new bike that is stocked with one. I have always been a Rock Shox rider, gave Fux a shot only to find myself buying a Rock Shox Pike 2 months later.
Fux forks are grossly over priced and overhyped, require way too much maintenance, Fux’s profit at all costs modus operandi and “customer service” (if you can all it that) leaves a lot to be desired.
What the Pros ride is niether here nor there they can get a new fork every other week from their SPONSOR for free. Why is it that a good majority of average riders who paid for their 2013 Fux forks got rid of them and upgraded to Rock Shox or X-Fusion forks?
ROCK SHOX 4 LIFE!
One of the best 4 sure. I think i'll gonna watch it now for old time's sake
ENJOY
www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0lauf-SAuc