Riding FOX's Prototype RAD 34 Fork

Nov 20, 2013
by Mike Levy  
FOX's Racing Application Development program (RAD for short) has been responsible for a number of advancements throughout their product lineup, all of which have their origins between the tape and under some of the world's fastest racers. And while the three letter acronym only began to be applied in late 2011, many of their products from previous years can be credited to the same development and testing strategy that has been laid out to deliver the best possible suspension to their sponsored athletes. ''The purpose of the Racing Applications Development program is to give our elite athletes an advantage through products and technologies,'' Mark Fitzsimmons, FOX's Race Program Manager, explained to us. This means that their racers are often on prototype versions of shocks and forks that may one day turn into production units - the FOX 40 is a good example of this - or might never see the light of day. Take the inverted FOX downhill fork that Gee Atherton tested awhile back, a prototype that was constructed to see if they could assemble an inverted chassis that would offer enough torsional rigidity for a pro-level downhill racer. While the fork garnered an incredible amount of attention, the project was eventually scrapped when it became clear that the fork's weight would balloon too high due to the added material required to achieve their stiffness goals.

A more recent example of the RAD program's reach would be the wild prototype downhill shocks that were raced at World Championships in South Africa this year. The four-way adjustable shocks, which FOX estimates cost around $5,000 USD each to produce, don't resemble a production DHX RC4 in the slightest, and it is still up in the air as to if we'll ever see a production version. Why would FOX put so much effort towards something that they might not ever sell to consumers? ''Product development is an evolutionary process,'' says Fitzsimmons. ''We are constantly learning, and as we do we inject the technology advancements into the RAD products to learn more.'' That means that although the general consumer might not ever get the RAD treatment, there is a chance that the fork or shock they end up using down the road will have benefited from the work that riders like Peat, Minnaar, and Graves, as well as FOX's engineers, have put into it.

FOX 34 RAD Details:

• Intended use: enduro racing
• Travel: 150mm
• Wheel size: 29''
• Prototype RAD CTD damper
• Lightweight 'Kabolt' 15mm axle
• Availability: N/A
• MSRP: N/A

That same development approach is being applied to the FOX 34 RAD fork that we spent a day testing on Sedona, Arizona's rough and rocky trails, and the fork on the front of our Specialized Enduro is in fact pretty much the same model that Aaron Gwin used to win the Sea Otter downhill, and that BMC enduro racer Aaron Bradford uses on the front of his 150mm travel Trailfox TF01. While the RAD 34 is likely going to offer some advantages to a top tier racer, it is a reasonable question to ask if such a fork makes sense for the average rider. ''A lot of what we learn through the RAD program is considered for production, but many times what an elite World Cup racer wants is not necessarily what a consumer wants, or even what an elite racer would want to ride on a regular basis,'' Fitzsimmons explained to us. ''With the 34, it is a combination of both. Right now we are learning what our top enduro racers need, and in doing so we are developing new damping tunes, lower friction seals, etc. Eventually, what we learn will be considered for production forks.'' FOX's 2014 forks are a good example of such development work, and Fitzsimmons also told us that there is a good chance that certain RAD-level products might be available as aftermarket upgrades in the near future. While FOX was a little vague on what exactly that may encompass, it might mean that one could purchase anything from the lightweight, anodized gold 'Kabolt' thru-axle to possibly even a full-on RAD damper cartridge.

bigquotesAs we see it, the RAD program is for athletes to aspire to. And for us, it is a way of globally identifying the best of the best and who our engineering team needs to focus on working with in the development process. For us, the ultimate marketing tool is winning and a product that allows a rider the confidence to push a little bit more. - Mark Fitzsimmons, FOX Race Program Manager

FOX prototype RAD DH shock

At roughly $5,000 a pop to manufacture, FOX's prototype DH shocks are about as trick as it gets. Greg Minnaar used one of the shocks shown above on his World Champs winning run.



What Makes a RAD Fork RAD?

With only a set of red and white RAD stickers on the fork's lowers that hint at it being something special, the 150mm travel RAD 34 shown here may not look like anything out of the ordinary. In fact, the fork's CSU, Kashima coated stanchions, and magnesium lowers are all straight off of the production line, while its anodized gold axle is most certainly not. The 15mm thru-axle, dubbed the 'Kabolt' after Canadian cross-country racer Geoff Kabush who requested a lighter weight setup without the standard QR lever, reportedly saves upwards of forty grams over a production 15QR thru-axle. That might be small beans to most riders but it's a worthwhile figure on a race bike that sees nearly all of its hardware replaced with titanium and aluminum aftermarket bits to create the lightest possible race weapon. But while the Kabolt might be neat, it's what's on the inside of the RAD 34 that makes it special.

FOX 34 RAD fork testing

The RAD stickers and anodized gold axle are the only hints that our test fork is something special



Is the Damper Different?

We've spent some solid time on FOX's 2014 CTD equipped forks and have come away very impressed with how controlled the stroke is compared to the previous year's offerings, but it's safe to say that the RAD version of the damper isn't the same animal. The external stock CTD dials atop the right fork leg don't give anything away, however, and if you were to remove the CTD damper from the fork you'd find that it looks exactly the same as what's used within a production fork. It's a different story when it comes to the cartridge's inner workings, though, with a much more advanced layout that has been designed to provide enough support for a pro-level racer without taking away from the fork's ability to absorb the terrain. This has been accomplished by way of lighter damping at slower damper shaft speeds (think low-speed compressions like landing on a transition or applying the front brake) when the fork is set to its wide open 'Descend' setting, and while you might suspect that sort of setup would make for a fork that dives into its travel, the engineers at FOX have employed a mid-valve to help keep the it standing tall. What exactly is a mid-valve? While FOX wasn't about to delve deep into their pro-only RAD fork's inner workings, a mid-valve is essentially another set of shims and a check valve that sits behind the rebound piston to provide added low-speed compression damping. This certainly isn't a new concept, with it being relatively common in the world of motorbike suspension, and they are beginning to be employed more often on mountain bike suspension as well, despite the added complexity and cost that it takes to properly utilize them. The RAD damper also features more progressive damping at higher shaft speeds to help take the sting out of square edge impacts and flat landings that happen at pro-level speeds.

FOX 34 RAD fork testing

Production TALAS and CTD dials don't give anything away as to what's inside.



Slick Tricks

The RAD trickery doesn't end with the shims, though, as FOX's engineers go to great lengths to lower the fork's coefficient of friction in an effort to have it feel as slippery and active as possible. That begins with new dynamic seals throughout the fork that use an updated shape. FOX says that these seals, which require completely different seal bore dimensions and are therefore only on non-production RAD forks, significantly lower both breakaway and active friction within the fork. RAD models also see their damper rods given the Kashima treatment (ours was missing this upgrade, though), something that is only available to consumers on 2014 model year 40s, as well as new 20 wt. gold lubrication oil that testing has shown goes a long way to make for a more active stroke. One trick that wasn't done to our fork but that their top racers receive is having the bushings opened up ever so slightly by hand to further improve its action. According to FOX, the revised seals, Kashima coated rods, and new lube oil has meant that their racers are able to run roughly 10 PSI higher pressures without sacrificing any small bump sensitivity at all, an important fact when you consider how important that can be when talking about traction. Interestingly, the air spring side of the fork is entirely stock, with some team riders using oil volume to dial-in the progressiveness that they're looking for.



Getting RAD on the Trail

So, how does an ultra exclusive fork that has been assembled with the world's best racers in mind perform on the trail? Pretty damn well, as you might likely expect. When it comes down to it, suspension is always about compromises, with it being a balancing act between the shock or fork's available settings. Want a more active, supple stroke from your fork? That'll likely mean that it will also dive more into its travel when you're on the brakes or rolling into a steep pitch. More ramp-up to prevent hard bottoming? You might not get all your travel as often as you should. Similar give and takes make up a fork's performance throughout its entire range, but the balancing act becomes less and less pronounced (or at least it should) as the fork moves up in both hierarchy and cost. This becomes clear when you compare an entry level fork with a higher-end model that offers more control over damper settings, likely better tolerances throughout, and possibly a price tag with an extra digit to show for it all. All of the same can be said of the exceptionally rare RAD-spec FOX 34 FIT CTD shown here, minus the added cost because you simply can't purchase this fork regardless of how much money you walk into FOX's California headquarters with. But if you could get your hands on one of these, you'd quickly realize that the real advantage to the RAD 34 is how it manages to not compromise certain aspects of its performance nearly as much as a production fork, meaning that racers who have access to FOX's RAD program get to have their cake and eat it too.

FOX 34 RAD fork testing

Mark Fitzsimmons, FOX's Race Program Manager, installs the RAD 34 onto the front of our Enduro in the field.


That "cake" we're talking about refers to how the stiction at the top of the fork's stroke is implausibly low, with it making even the most active of production forks feel as if it was using sand for lubrication. And keep in mind that the RAD 34 that we rode didn't make use of a Kashima treated damper rod or bushings that have been opened up ever so slightly by hand, just the new dynamic seals and 20 wt. lube oil. Clichéd words like silky, supple, and smooth all jump to mind, but none of them really do any justice to how eager the RAD 34 is to slip into its stroke. How is FOX able to create a fork that is more sensitive than anything we've previously ridden? Those new seals and the lube oil change certainly help that cause but FOX puts a lot of it down to damper setup, which brings us back to that conversation about compromises. The RAD-spec damper's lighter low-speed compression setting, along with its trick mid-valve, holds the fork up high in its travel while also allowing it to be supple enough to take in and erase the smallest of impacts, and it's the type of performance that is literally the best of both worlds. We were actually convinced that the fork was both slightly under-sprung and under-damped after the initial setup and before hitting the test run but we ended up being proven completely wrong. Tune your own fork to be as supple as the RAD 34 and you'll likely end up plunging into three quarters of its travel every time you pull the front brake lever or roll into the steeps, yet FOX has managed to create a stable yet unbelievably supple stroke to their pro-level offering.

FOX 34 RAD fork testing

Fitzsimmons kept track of our settings throughout the day, with us running through short sections of rough trail with drastically different damper and spring setups to see how it affected the ride.



Running deeper into the fork's travel revealed a very controlled feel, with it never coming off as being overwhelmed when a bad line choice meant a head on collision with an immoveable rock was unavoidable. The RAD 34's O-ring told us that yes, we were going deep into the fork's stroke, but it was far less of a jolt than we would have expected. There was also noticeably less energy transferred through the bars during high-speed compression moments, with the fork doing well to mute square edges and flat landings in a way that a stock slider could only dream of. The difference couldn't even be called subtle, to be honest, and it took pointing it through a few taxing sessions to confirm that what we were feeling was real - this 150mm travel fork feels like it has at least an extra 10 or 20mm on hand to deal with those "oh shit" moments that pop up in a race situation. This was especially apparent when pushing hard while the fork was set to its stiffer 'Trail' setting, with it offering a more open and forgiving feel than the stock 34 without sacrificing any control.

bigquotesA lot of what we learn through the RAD program is considered for production but many times what an elite World Cup racers wants is not necessarily what a consumer wants, or even what an elite racer would want to ride on a regular basis. - Mark Fitzsimmons, Race Program Manager


Aaron Gwin

Gwin taking his RAD 34 to the Sea Otter podium.




www.ridefox.com

Author Info:
mikelevy avatar

Member since Oct 18, 2005
2,032 articles

183 Comments
  • 90 4
 Whaatttt suspension too good for us? What are we, the rockshox 3%?
  • 34 2
 Relax bud, them letting Levy ride it shows it'll be in production soon. This article was just a teaser. We'll all soon be able to shell out four digits of money for our very own RAD 34.....
  • 63 28
 "At roughly $5,000 a pop to manufacture" lol fox your marketing tricks are getting old...
  • 12 1
 I really don't want to see that argument come back again.
  • 61 4
 What do you mean marketing tricks? Do you realize the fixed costs per item of making just a few items are insanely high? Especially highly technical pieces like that? At this point, it might very well cost Fox 5k to build just one more DH shock like that, but certainly the more they build, the cost per item will go down. Simple math really.
  • 8 11
 The biggest problem that Fox was having was with their CTD damper. I don't have a full suspension currently (going to buy one) but I have friends who have the fox van 180mm and they love em'. There are some after market damper kits out there that might help but I'm not sure if many people want to spend $800 on the fork and then another couple hundred on a damper.
  • 19 5
 I'll take marginally lower performance and easy set-up and maintenance from Suntour, RockShox, Manitou and X-fusion. High-end Fox is great, no doubt, but not worth the cost in every cents of the word.
  • 31 5
 Marginal performance? The Lyrik and especially the pike are superior to the Fox equivalents.

@gerhards: That's exaclty what I mean: Fox is always trying to reclaim their premium status through tech-heavy markeing strategies claiming the obvoius or the old as breaktrough technology.
  • 13 0
 I said marginally lower. You can tune the Fox stuff ad infinitum, but working on the FIT2 requires no interruptions and a flawless environment. I can clean or replace the seals on my Epicon while a buddy gets his gear together. In muddy conditions or sandy, that is very important to me.
  • 7 22
flag taletotell (Nov 21, 2013 at 8:35) (Below Threshold)
 The bike I plan to buy next spring is spec'd with fox at the low end and the lyrik at the high end. I plan to sell the fox. Keep an eye on my buy sell Wink
  • 3 3
 @gerhards, costs might be high but when you already own all the machinery to produce it and can do it in house it is not nearly as high
  • 4 1
 The machines are a fixed cost. What is high is getting the rights on patents, contracting new engineers, and the man hours that go into it. People cost a lot of money.
  • 5 2
 Does this one fall apart in midair as well? 0.o?
  • 7 10
 my buddy has a 2013 Fox TALAS 180 and that thing is butter. Smoothest stroke I have ever felt on a bike. (period)
  • 2 0
 My 2012 36 RLC is just okay. It has not nearly the low speed suppleness l wished it did. Its totally not worth the almost $1000 price tag.
  • 4 5
 CTD? No thanks!
  • 6 0
 @poozank & tabletop84

I think this turned into two separate arguements, so lets bring it back down:
First, the shocks in the photo arent yet production pieces, and they arent on the retail market, so they technically dont even have a price.
Second, while costs to machine pieces might be low, several high cost elements come into play. Things dont design themselves, in fact usually you could expect 1 or 2 engineers working with a product developer, add on professional testers (athletes), and suddenly the cost on the very first unit is all of those salaries combined. Add on to that the cost to have other parts molded or 3d printed for say even a dozen prototypes... can you start to see where it might get expensive to just make a few of something?
  • 1 0
 @gerhards, I see your point, I didn't even consider employee wages
  • 3 9
flag dmadness (Nov 22, 2013 at 15:38) (Below Threshold)
 It doesn't Cost $5000 to manufacture, it maybe will cost that much to buy though.
  • 5 0
 Thank you @gerhards . Finally someone with a brain. People think that things cost a lot because of material cost, but they don't realize whats behind it. They love the look of a frame, but say "Carbon fiber isn't that expensive". Well what about the cost to pay the brilliant engineers (and so on) to come up with the design.
  • 4 0
 yes there is cost to develop, but the actual cost of the shock ( the way its portrayed in the article ) does not cost $5000 to produce, that is ridiculous. and the R n D costs way more than $5000 to develop, So there is a discrepancy in the facts here.

Look deeper than the surface.
  • 1 0
 That retarded poll RC posted about preventing Pro's from riding prototype stuff will put the kabosh on programs like this if his ideas were implemented.
  • 1 0
 It would not end prototyping, just race testing. Basically racers would have cutting edge production stuff for racing, and test prototypes in the off season.
  • 1 0
 What about the cannondale LEFTYs. It has been show they are even smoother that any other fork and are currently the reference in terms of smoothness. The article doesn't talk about it...
  • 1 0
 Lefty, best fork period. But it has its limitations. 80-90mm flange width makes it difficult to build a burly wheel. Awesome suspension though. That X-fusion Goldmember fork is like 2 of those… kind of. I'd roll it… if it didn't cost its weight in gold.
  • 2 0
 Where are you buying your forks? My 831 was $1262! And everyone knows that when you but fox you're paying for the logo; it's like Oakley, or POC
  • 4 1
 Go get a quote from a machinist that is capable of making a one off shock and you'd find that $5k would be a bargain. Then have your design work well enough to win a WC. Some of you kids are so ignorant to the world I find myself depressed every time I come on this site. There should be an IQ test before you are allowed to post. It would cut down on my time trying to filter through your crap trying to read the few intelligent posts that find their way on here.
  • 1 1
 maybe for a single fork Yes, cause it would be custom, but the valving and the cartridge could be pirated then for something that would fit, remember that you have no idea what people on here do, are YOU a machinist? if not then your comment is irrelevant, also calling people "kids" really shines on who the kid is here. Smile
  • 1 0
 True that little of the RAD stuff is built entirely from scratch. There is something every so often that is completely new: the inverted fork they ended up scrapping for instance.
  • 1 0
 but it's not a novelty. Every manufacturer does this.
  • 60 10
 Had a sticky set of fox forks. Sent back for service. Came back just as sticky. So mAny other brands do this better. X fusions out perform fox. Just because they're expensive, it doesn't make it the best. Fox, get your coat - you mother has grounded you for a month.
  • 12 3
 Knew it was you as soon as I saw x fusion... Suntour durolux will outperform these I reckon!
  • 5 3
 It's not hard is it. Selling the crap float x before I've even got it on my frame! Lol
  • 5 2
 Got a FIT cartridge with Trail Adjust on my 34 Evolution as I complained how awful the O/C was. The result? Still awful, but not as awful as the O/C.

Manitou, are you listening? Bring us the Mattoc asap!
  • 6 1
 Or run to the store and buy some BOS Devilles. Quite curious about the new Manitous though..
  • 22 2
 Yep, or rockshox, marzocchi, sun tour, random Chinese £100 import. A wet cabbage with mounting hardware. All would be HEAPS better.
  • 6 2
 When I got my 2011 Giant Reign. I swapped both the Fox shock and fork on it for a Sr Suntour Durolux. So much smoother and didn't have to worry of the flex that Fox had.
  • 3 1
 but shouldn't fox be slippery as f*ck due to gold Ka$hima?
  • 9 1
 My only complaint with fox is the need service everyday. I like my forks like my women: low maintenance.
I feel like they do perform really well, but at the cost of good seals.
  • 22 0
 I like my woman like I like my coffee.... Cold and bitter
  • 3 0
 Just saying, my fox 36 used to stick... ever since i started using finish line stanchion lube every once in awhile I've been running 5-15 more PSI and never have ANY issues with stiction. buttery smooth all the time and helps clean the gunk out.
  • 3 4
 Anybody else see the $5k production price?
  • 23 1
 Hmmm. Fox's answer to the PIKE. I'll still take the PIKE.
  • 3 1
 So Fox's you can't buy it prototype is just getting around to using a mid valve, when X Fusion stick them in their lower end forks (Slant/Velvet etc) as a standard part of a nice home tunable open bath damper. My next fork will be coming from Paul Turner's mob or Manitou, go home Fox you're drunk.
  • 3 1
 Fox peaked in 2011 in my honest, uninformed, weekend warrior opinion. My 2011 831 is the smoothest, most adjustable fork I've ever used. The new Fox forks I've touched have felt like horseshit.
  • 3 1
 Same here, my '11 Float 180 RC2 feels way better than any newer offering from Fox, not as good as a BOS damping wise but at least somewhat close. I honestly don't understand what Fox were thinking when they released these new models with that CTD bs, clearly they are able to make quite decent forks. Quite curious about the Mattocks, they do sound promising.
  • 2 0
 Same here, my 2011 Van 36 RC2 160 is amazing, I plan on holding on to that fork for a good long time. I don't need to even try the CTD's to know they're rubbish, isn't adjustability the reason we were willing to pay the higher prices in the first place?
  • 4 3
 I don't know what the hell everyone commenting on this has done (or not done) to trash their forks but I have been riding the shit out of Fox products for years with nary an issue. Enjoy your awesome RST or Suntour stuff! ...and choose to ignore the fact that Fox is an industry leader, and much of the stuff RST or Suntour come out with was pioneered or designed by Fox first.
  • 4 0
 Bonus points for using the word "nary".
  • 3 0
 That was a nice touch.
  • 1 1
 Fox puts their forks on a lot of stock bikes, but otherwise do little to set themselves apart. They have the 40 and figured out fat stachions first, but those were developments from a previous era. In the past 3 years they have basically messed around with dampers with mixed results. Not exactly industry leading innovations. Especially while lighter forks with lower maintenance requirements and lowers msrps are performing on par with them or in some cases better.
  • 2 0
 @scottrallye

They had their moment (2009-2011), also because RS was slacking a bit at that point but recently they didn't exactly lead the way when it comes to innovation or quality (CTD b.s., stiff seals, underdamped etc).

Their marketing is top notch though, as your comment proves..
  • 1 0
 Ever felt a float 40? Try that and then see if you think their forks feel bad.
  • 1 0
 Yes, not impressed.
  • 1 0
 Them you set it up wrong.
  • 1 0
 It was set up for someone who weighs about the same as I do, by a company that tunes and repairs suspension on a daily basis so it was done properly and still felt like shit compared to some other forks I've tried.
  • 43 3
 Meanwhile all of Fox's 2013 customers are stuck with forks with almost no small bump sensitivity due to stiction that then dive under braking due to no mid-stroke support. Nice one guys.
  • 4 0
 Yep, without any concession that they are bad or offers of upgrades. if there was one I'd pay reasonable money. My 2013 150 talas has been tweaked with float fluid to make it more progressive but the stiction and squishy noises from the damper, oh man. Think I am going to dig me out some platinum 21.25 wt lube oil and go F - RAD.
  • 5 3
 I've had absolutely no trouble with my 13 Float 36 180. Maybe I just keep it in perfect condition.
  • 4 0
 from what i heard it was only the 34's that had the problem, the 32 and 36's didn't have any problems
  • 5 1
 Yea, it was problems with the CTD damper. Stupid concept in the first place, I'd rather just have really adjustable LSC instead of the CTD junk
  • 2 0
 I have a 2013 34mm and the dampening action was very poor. Way soft and dove excessively on braking. After installing 2014 internals fork is much better. Now the fork can be ridden much more aggressively. With that being said I wish they would ditch the ctd and give us a more std high, low, blow off, and rebound adjustments.
  • 2 0
 Yeah that brake dive was bad, I had to much more pressure in my 34.
Got your new internals installed already? Jeez my shop lags...
  • 1 4
 That 2014 fox CTD cartridge upgrade offer was a great deal for all you North Americans.

But what Fox failed to advise pink bike readers with that story is that the deal is NOT a world wide offer. I've been chasing fox Australia intensely for 6 months now, and they have no knowledge of such a deal or any possible performance issues with the 2013 talas fork. i got me a $1000 paper weight, that's going to hit eBay cheap!

Any one want a set of 09 Marz 55r forks too, i'll do a package deal. I can sure pick them .... Dooh!
(Ps: just had to finally sign up to PB to vent that one! )
  • 2 1
 Yeah, a weirdo Fox fork made it easy to go to a Pike. Fck that sht.
  • 18 0
 They should introduce a 27.5 Fox 36 with external low/high speed compression adjusters (no CTD).
  • 2 0
 you can put a 650B tire in 36 RC2, there's enough room Wink
  • 16 1
 Owning a fork with slightly opened up bushings and ultra low friction seals wouldn't work out so well for every day riding since the seals would leak sooner and there would be perceiveable play. Hopefully they can find a better balance of oil, seal material and tolerances through testing to improve on next years products. It's that simple and nothing to get upset about. Fox has to strike a balance between average riders who never do any maintainence and those of us who are regularly stripping the forks down to attempt to eek out the best ride possible. This forces them to have overly tight tolerances and develop long lasting oils or be like the other guys that have loose bushings and constantly leaking seals. Unfortunately there are 10x more people that would be chapped about loose work out forks due to lack of maintenance then there are people like us wanting lower friction.
  • 8 0
 Wow, someone on PB with some brains. Weird.
  • 18 8
 This IS rad. In fact, the whole write up was so well done that I want to read it twice. Interesting and involved; I love reading this kind of behind-the-scenes stuff, especially when it bears so much weight towards what we'll see on the market in a few years! Thanks, PB.
  • 38 7
 not worth reading once unless you enjoy well written hype and marketing.

But I find it a little confusing that the say the equipment they sell to end users has nothing to do with what their sponsored riders use to win races and then point out that winning races is the ultimate maketing tool giving riders confidence?

so they make dialed team rider dampers and retail dampers that have a lot to be desired (2013 CTD?)

mid valve? shim stack tweaking is not news or some kind of secret, it is an art.

"gold" lubrication oil... you decide Wink

"open up the bushings by hand" well if production tolerances are so poor, but good luck doing that by hand lol


"FOX Racing Shox forks use hydrodynamic lubrication. This system force feeds oil into the tall, slotted bushings during the compression stroke. When the fork cycles up and down, the oil is trapped between bushings, upper tubes and seals.

Thermal expansion rates can cause the bushings to close in on the upper tubes, causing high friction and binding during normal operation. Correct bushing clearance is critical to prevent binding of the fork during normal operation."

Geometric dimensioning and tolerance is a design practice used to ensure parts will work/fit during the manufacturing process. Bushings are sized before installation and re-checked for size after installation. Correct bushing tolerance is a diametric clearance of 0.0015”– 0.0090”.

^quoted from ridefox.com

either way some of the FOX kit is good and some not so good. but their marketing is entertaining if you like that kind of stuff.

lets hope they develop something for the everyday riders,privateers and teams without sponsorship that can be tweaked and serviced easily like the stuff that another manufacturer was talking about..

ReallyAtrociousDrivel.. ?
  • 10 3
 Agree, the Fox-prose makes you smile. Making up things that are actually only design faults.
Also 5000 for a damper? That includes an awful lot of corporate overhead for 20$ of parts?

Midvalve? Hole drilled at half stroke? Thats around for at least 70 years...

It sounds like their production is horribly unprecise, machining introduced imperfection and they have to handmatch bushings, stanchions and take the play out of it with stiff seals. Not very confidence inspiring - RS seems to do a little better.

Oil is oil is oil - a bike oil damper is a slow moving device and low heat generation, you could run them with crisco.
  • 2 0
 Who knows what seals are used - pro MX teams use special super low friction seals too BUT these are worthless after one race.
  • 1 0
 They are stuck with a techlibrary that never really gets better.

Techaward goes to Fox:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z86V_ICUCD4
  • 1 0
 That should be a nice birthday present..
  • 10 0
 My 2012 Float RLC's were ****ing Rad!
Just go back 2 years to the future, Fox...
  • 2 0
 Mine were fine but are already showing signs of stanchion wear despite getting professional maintenance in febuary and august and a full rebuild in october. I got them last december. This will be my 3rd pair of fox floats that have had significant stanchion wear in under 2 years of use, the first 2 i assumed was due to infrequent maintenance, but now there is clearly no doubt that there is a significant design flaw. Unacceptable, never again buying a bike with Fox.
  • 12 2
 HOLY SHIT ITS GOT A R.A.D STICKER AND GOLD ANO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!IT MUST BE SWEET!!!!!!!!
  • 4 2
 It's not "gold ano"
It's a molybdium-disulphide coating.
It's used a lot in the moto industry for anything made from aluminum that needs to be extra hard, low friction or super had waring. It's not just a fox thing. It's proven vastly.
  • 8 0
 Haha! c'mon Fox, you don't win me back adding a bling-factor axle.... Just go back to RLC cartridges. Regards, Happy 'Motion Control' user.
  • 1 0
 Bring Back RC2!!

about every suspension set-up brief you'll read will say, "Suspension settings vary to personal taste".. this is not achieved thru 1 setting per trail type...
  • 10 1
 Thats great folks, even lower friction seals! Now you'll only have to service your fox forks every 3 hours Wink
  • 5 0
 Float 32... is the best fork they produced. I have the 2010 model and yeh there's some issues that one can overlook but really... all you need is a decent damper, an air cartridge and an open oil bath with the lockout cartridge and damper unit in that... done. Fox float 32 rl... r = reliable, l = longevity. as for the evolution series??? wtf happen there LOL. For my next fork i'm seriously considering sr suntour... the epicon X1 or the auron... have had an epicon in the past and it's fantastic feeling until I broke the lock-out mechanism but hey who really uses lock-out anyway Razz
  • 9 1
 Brace yourselves for the complaints about it only being a 15mm axle.
  • 26 2
 No, it's the CTD everyone hates.
  • 8 0
 Then what was everyone whining about with the Pike fork?
  • 38 0
 It's just what we do. There doesn't need to be a logical reason for it.
  • 6 11
flag emu-er (Nov 20, 2013 at 23:41) (Below Threshold)
 that´s what she said....bbsshhhhh!!
  • 9 0
 ^^ This guy "gets" women
  • 3 0
 Z-man I am also a suspension tech. I am not a brandist since I believe all the company's have something to offer, I agree with some of your points and disagree with others. I just wanted to mention the RS "pure" damper that was featured on the psylo for a few years for historical accuracy. It was a rigid air free damper that you had to purge and bleed the air out of the top when servicing, and they worked quite well.
  • 1 0
 That damper was the business at the time, but it also got RS sued for infringing Manitou's patents, to the tune of 1.75 million dollars. business.highbeam.com/103/article-1G1-84678220/rockshox-answer-settle-patent-lawsuit

Motion Control and Mission Control both actually share the TPC layout, but are emulsion dampers (no IFP/bladder separating oil from air) unlike the Pure system, which was actually most like the Dorado's sealed and bled TPC+ cartridge (other TPC+ carts were emulsion based too). MoCo and MiCo have (or had) various distinguishing features that allowed them to get around the Answer/Manitou patents - such as the plastic flexible compression assembly and the lockout mechanism in the original Mission Control system (found in the Totem). They subsequently dropped the lockout mechanism for the Mission Control DH (as found in the Lyrik and Boxxer) - I can only assume that Manitou's TPC patents have expired if the MiCo DH isn't causing lawsuits anywhere, because its layout essentially is exactly what TPC was (13+ years ago).
  • 7 1
 So testing of 34mm 831 is just SAD? Slopestyle Application Development
  • 3 0
 Finally they're charging the CTD damper ... the D mode was useless (or I'd rather say properly dangerous), T was ok on the hardest setting (too divy on the 2 other settings), C was ok.
  • 19 0
 Chatter Trail Dive.
  • 2 0
 Haha, Perfect name for them
  • 7 1
 sounds interesting but personally id rather save 500 quid and buy a Pike!
  • 6 4
 I see nothing in the article that indicates they are making any attempts to make their forks more reliable so I will assume they are still unreliable and high maintenance to boot.

Why or how do they make such reliable rear shocks but such crappy forks?

I once got a new 40 with kashima legs, when new the first inch of travel felt impressively smooth but after just a couple days of mud runs they didn't feel so great. But the pros get their FOX forks constantly maintained so that marketing tool of winning races isn't really a true test of their product.

FOX forks are partly unreliable because they don't have much oil volume in them (same problem as Avid brakes actually) to keep the weight down. FOX also makes low stiction a priority over having a reliable sealing system, this is very evident from their own marketing, articles like this one, and from scratched staunchions seen over and over again by regular customers.

There will always be trade-offs when it comes to fork performance, but the article failed to mention that reliability is also a crucial aspect of fork performance. Until they improve their reliability of their forks and reduce the maintenance intervals they are just a marketing pretender and not a real contender.
  • 5 2
 I really dont know where you get your info
  • 2 0
 Protour im a big fan of lots of oil being my friend. My Shivers have shitloads and feel superb. A bit heavy mind you but I don't care on steep gnar. My Marz 55,s also have plenty of oil, need maintaining perhaps once a year. Same with saints and codes. More oil. In this case to prevent cooking the brake fluid. Kashima is a shiny marketing tool. Fox forks are shiny market toys.
  • 2 0
 These types of articles are eroding my confidence and interest in PB as an objective site. They seem to be way too cozy with Specialized, SRAM and FOX. I can't ever trust they will write one bad word about their stuff. At least they have cool videos and a stacked buy/sell section!
  • 2 0
 Based on the description of how it performs ie: (rides high in travel, supple on small bumps, doesn't blow through its travel on big hits, etc) it sounds like my rs pike! At least this indicates fox is capable of producing something that performs as well. (Last two fox forks, 2010 van 36 rc2, 2014 float 36 rc2, current: rs pike)
  • 1 0
 My personal opinion about Fox forks and dumpers: I like to change bikes, so in last 5 years I had experience with several fox and rockshox products as well as one suntour fork. For enduro kind of trails we run here in Israel, the best choice is fox float 32/talas 32 fork and rp23 shock. I have experience of riding them for 2 years without maintenance and without loosing the performance significantly. Regarding the RockShox- they are quite ok but not as plush as fox and in most cases require even more frequent maintenance. Suntour are reasonable for a cheap bike and easy cross-country terrain, but not for serious technical trails. Suntour also have some "wooden" feeling in them.
I do agree that Fox charges a premium for being more plush, but i think that the premium is ok when you pay it for avoiding back or shoulders pain or accidents and more comfort ride.
I also prefer the RLC setup than the new CTD one, however beginners struggle to dial-in the RLC ones and prefer the simpler CTD setup.
  • 3 0
 What do they exactly do when open up bushings slightly by hand?
Is it a special technic than can be done only by trained specialists?
  • 3 0
 id assume to polish them up a bit with a dremel or other tool to take a small bit of surface material off of the bushing to allow the stanchion to slide through the bushings smoother.
  • 2 1
 i like these kind of articles, but id much prefer to see a review of an actual production fork, instead of a prototype that cost thousands to manufacture and has an army of techs to tune it for you after every run. it would be nice to see a review for the suntour RUX for example
  • 6 0
 We're currently testing a Rux. Stay tuned.
  • 6 1
 my fox 40 RAD was so RAD that i sold it!
  • 4 1
 X-fusion has had a mid-valve on the velvet for some time.

Fox got it's a$$ kicked so bad by the new Pike, just as they were releasing the 2013 garbage.
  • 5 0
 for the price of a Fox 34, i'd get a Pike or BOS Deville.
  • 1 0
 Why is it so active at the start of compression.? As stated they lighter dampning at slower shaft speeds. Riders don't like the fork to pack up so Fox put in a extra shim stack to deal with that.
I like the fact that Fox states "This is a fork for enduro racers" Good idea make a fork that tailors to one group of riders. I have ridden peoples forks set up for racing. Feels nothing like a trail fork nor should it.
Go to a machine shop and say build me a shock heres the plans. Expect to spend about ten grand.............Fox got those shocks for cheap!
  • 1 0
 Wait...I always thought fox just mass produced their prototypes and sold them to paying customers every year to test them and get the feedback to make adjustments? rinse, repeat. Owner of fox probably drives a kashima Bugatti Veyron by now
  • 1 0
 If we can't buy it and ride it ourselves then why do we want to read a review/ad about it? So we know what we're missing out on?

I usually read a review/ad because I might purchase the product. A review/ad about a product that isn't available to the consumer?

What's the point?
  • 3 0
 What they don't tell you is you actually can buy a RAD fork... it's called a BOS.
  • 4 0
 Sounds like they're trying to be as smooth and controllable as BOS
  • 1 0
 Since a formula 1 race car cost millions of dollars why a race shock can not cost 5k??? Nobody told you you have to buy an 5 k shock!!! Wait for the future and you will see the prices going high and high
  • 2 2
 I'm just curious how pinkbike lets a manufacturer bring a bike to a shoot out with unattainable high end components? How does this help us decide what bike to buy? It's cheating really. Now I can't believe anything they write about the handling and performance of the Enduro. What else does the bike have on it to make it seem better than the stock models?
  • 1 0
 Actually, the Enduro does have attainable high end suspension: Ohlins.
  • 3 0
 The fork was installed for one day of testing. The rest of our time aboard the bike will be with the stock componentry, which is what the review will be based on.
  • 2 1
 Fox will fall to @3rd/4th choice for enduro/folks that spec their own builds in 2014.
Similar to how specialized missed the 650b boat... oem orders will save their(fox) asses short term.
  • 1 0
 "Mark Fitzsimmons, FOX's Race Program Manager, installs the RAD 34 onto the front of our Enduro in the field" and the Enduro has a CC DB in the rear... Mark should be crazy seeing that jajaja
  • 3 4
 As soon as I read about the southafrica 5k shocks I didn't even care anymore about this fork. I want to hear what the hell those shocks had going on inside. 5k for 4way adjustment.

CCDB has 4way and they cost us what 1k

Fox......unveil your secrets of this 5k shock please Smile
  • 6 1
 5k to develop the shock , thats not a retail price.
  • 7 0
 It does say " which FOX estimates cost around $5,000 USD each to produce" not develop. Development can run into tens of thousands.
  • 9 1
 Because they've produced 4 of them. Producing thousands of them would bring the unit cost right down.
  • 1 0
 Does anyone know if the 2014 bikes come with 2013 or 2014 forks? It probably depends on when you buy it and when the company built it, but maybe I'm wrong?
  • 1 0
 In all the cases I know of they always have the same year parts and frame.
  • 1 0
 k. Thanks
  • 2 1
 I'll stick with manitou. My 140mm minute out performs any fox I've ever ridden & it is very reasonably priced. Also the new mattoc is gonna be sweeeet
  • 6 3
 Oh its made for a 29er'... And just like that im not interested.
  • 2 0
 Lol... This site just keeps on getting better - In a monty python sort of way.
  • 4 2
 FOX RAD more like FOX POS
  • 2 0
 Fox Shox spell's M-A-R-K-E-T-I-N-G
  • 2 0
 so basically... go get a Pike!
  • 2 1
 Is it REALLY the fork thats so good or is it being made to feel smoother by the "better rollover ?" of 29er wheels
  • 1 1
 20wt, oil in my experience increases friction greatly, it's why I use 5wt oil in the lowers in my forks, and my forks have never been better
  • 3 2
 What does the fox say?

"I am going to fill your head with ideas and take all your money"
  • 2 1
 I slapped on a rigid fork for the winter and was amazed at how rad a ride I had.
  • 2 1
 I'd like to see even more product reviews of items I'll never be able to purchase :pbsalute:
  • 1 0
 relax, it's been done long time ago with TPC+......... also X-fusion has a mid walve

Fox is just great at marketing
  • 4 1
 All you need is Pike.
  • 1 1
 "Mark Fitzsimmons, FOX's Race Program Manager, installs the RAD 34 onto the front of our Enduro in the field"

And he does it while wearing a helmet, safety first folks.
  • 2 0
 '' roughly $5000 a pop " and you still dont get kashima
  • 1 0
 So they are about as good as Rock Shox DH damper and CCDBA rear, for about 10 times the price, and you can not buy it?
  • 3 1
 rockshox for the win
  • 13 12
 As soon as i read 29" i stopped reading......
  • 5 4
 And why is that?
  • 5 0
 Probably 29 is his unlucky number! Big Grin
  • 1 0
 MSC adjustment is comming! (Mid-speed compression adjustment).
  • 1 0
 Will these work if I don't ride or race enduro? I hope so.
  • 1 0
 Why would you review a fork thats no Gold or Inverted ?
  • 1 0
 Product review on an item the public cannot buy yet, that's RAD.
  • 1 0
 Study up Fox, you have a long ways to go to touch the RS Pike.
  • 1 0
 Holy crap
  • 1 1
 I want it so bad
  • 2 4
 A whole article about stickers and a gold axle. Ridiculous And Dull. My £300 Rockshox still kicking arse!
  • 3 6
 FOX's Race Program Manager is riding a CCDBA Wink
  • 4 1
 That's Pinkbike's test bike, not Fox's.
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