Commencal's Contact System - New Suspension Platform for the Meta Range

Aug 1, 2014
by Richard Cunningham  
Commencal Meta V4 suspension 2015
  Commencal's latest mid-travel suspension design is elegantly simple. The top-tube-mounted shock nests in a reinforced hollow, built into the underside of the top tube.


Commencal announced that it has developed a new suspension platform for its 2015 Meta range of mid-travel trailbikes and AM/enduro racers, both based upon 27.5-inch wheels. The Contact System is a big step away from the Andorra-based bike maker’s V3 suspension configuration, with its top-tube-mounted shock, driven by a simple two-stage rocker linkage. The Contact System was developed to simplify the frame’s construction and, most importantly, to reduce its weight.

Commencal’s previous Meta V3 suspension system, with its floating shock, low center of mass, and square-edge-bump smoothing action, was well received by hard core riders. The sole complaints about the design centered on the weight of Commencal’s Meta all-mountain and trailbikes not being competitive with the new crop of mid-travel carbon machines, spawned by the popularity of enduro. Max Commencal is a self-professed believer in aluminum construction as both a people- and an earth-friendly material, so while replicating the V3 chassis in carbon may have been an easier path to weight reduction, it was not an option. Instead, Commencal opted to develop an entirely new suspension chassis.


Commencal Meta V4 suspension 2015
  The evolution of the Commencal Meta bears witness to the fact that Max and company are not afraid to experiment with suspension design. The popular V3 (right) is the predecessor of the new V4 Contact System chassis.





V4 Contact System

The V4 frame is constructed from heavily butted and manipulated aluminum tubing, with the key structural member being its three-piece top tube. The center of the top tube is a lightweight forging that is widened and hollow to allow the shock to nest into it. The novel shock mount adapts to the most wanted reservoir dampers and its configuration helps to keep the suspension forces lined up with the centerline of the top tube in order to minimize unnecessary stress to the frame. The single-pivot swingarm hinges quite high above the bottom bracket, reportedly to firm up the bike’s pedaling feel and also to provide a more optimal axle path. The location of the rear dropout pivot is set as close to the axle centerline as possible, presumably to enhance the sensitivity of the suspension while braking.

bigquotesMax Commencal is a self-professed believer in aluminum construction as both a people- and an earth-friendly material, so while replicating the V3 chassis in carbon may have been an easier path to weight reduction, it was not an option.

Details: V4 frames are built in two versions: the lighter, 120-millimeter-travel Meta Trail, and the 150-millimeter-travel Meta AM. Both have internal cable routing for shifting and also for a dropper seatpost. Both use a post-type rear brake mount that is tucked inside the stays to protect it from harm and an optional front derailleur hanger for holdouts who don’t like the V4 Meta’s standard-issue one-by drivetrains. The longer travel V4 Meta AM features ISCG-05 bosses, which most enduro racers use in one form or another, and its frame geometry is slacker than the trail model. Four sizes will be available: small, medium, large and X-large, and weighs for a medium fram without shoock are stated at 3kg for the V4 AM and 2.9kg for the V4 Trail model.

Contact System: Their ‘new’ suspension design is a simple seatstay-driven rocker link. The shock is mounted to a clevis that Commencal says, allows the damper to pivot smoothly on ball bearings, and also contributes to the suspension’s leverage curve – one that reportedly provides small bump sensitivity at the beginning of the travel, while managing to provide more support and a firmer pedaling feel at the sag position. If this is true, then the new V-4 platform’s performance under power should easily best that of its V3 predecessor. We have good reason that it will, as the few competitors that use a similar suspension configuration are all top performers in the mid-travel trailbike arena.

Commencal Meta V4 suspension 2015
  Meta V4 frames are CNC-machined after heat treating to ensure that the suspension pivots and bearing interfaces are perfectly configured. The forged upper shock mount is clearly visible in the left-hand photo.





META V4 AM

Commencal Meta V4 AM Race 2015
  Commencal's 150-millimeter-travel Meta V4 AM will be sold at three price points: the 3299-Euro Race is decked out with a RockShox Pike RCT3 Solo Air fork and a Monarch RT3 shock and powered by a SRAM X1 1x11 drivetrain is featured here; the 2599-Euro Essential, outfitted with a RockShox Revelation RCT3 fork and Monarch RT3 shock has a SRAM X7/X9 2x10 group; and the 1999-Euro SRAM X7-powered Origin sports a Marzocchi 350 R fork and an X-Fusion O2 RLX shock. North American pricing and final spec is still being worked out.



META V4 AM: Geometry
Small
Medium
Large
X-large
Seat tube length 400mm" 440mm 490mm 520mm
Seat angle 72° 72° 72° 72°
Head tube length 110mm" 115mm 120mm 125mm
Head angle 66° 66° 66° 66°
Wheelbase 1144mm 1167mm 1193mm 1225mm
Top tube length 570mm 591mm 618mm 650mm
Chain stay length 437mm 437mm 437mm 437mm
Bottom bracket height -12mm -12mm -12mm -12mm
Stand-over height 705mm 715mm 743mm 750mm
Reach 403mm 423mm 448mm 466mm
Stack 596mm 601mm 605mm 610mm

META V4 AM - R: Specs:

• Frame: Aluminum, 150mm travel, META V4 AM
• Wheel size: 27.5"
• Bottom Bracket: BB92 Pressfit, ISCG 05 tabs
• Front derailleur option: High, direct mount adapter
• Fork: RockShox Pike RCT3 Solo Air, 160mm
• Shock: RockShox Monarch RT3, 150mm
• Drivetrain: SRAM X1 1x11 speed
• Wheelset: Alpha 27.5: tubeless ready
• Seatpost: KS Lev Integra 125mm dropper post
• Weight (frame only - no shock) 3.0 kg
• MSRP: 3299 € (USD TBD)




META V4 TRAIL

Commencal Meta V4 Trail - Race 2015
  With a slightly lighter weight chassis, one-degree steeper geometry, components more suitable for XC/trail riding, and a reduction in suspension travel to 120-millimeters, the Meta V4 Trail is almost a completely different animal than the Meta AM. The Meta V4 Trail is also featured in three levels: The 3199 Euro Race shown here gets a RockShox SID RCT3 fork and Monarch RT3 shock and is powered by a SRAM X1 drivetrain; the 2599 Euro Essential has RockShox Reba fork and a Monarch RT3 shock and a SRAM X7/X9 2x10 drivetrain; and the 1999 Euro Origin has an X-Fusion Velvet RL2 fork with an X-Fusion O2 RLX shock and a SRAM X7 2x10 drivetrain. All share the same V4 Trail frame.



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Must Read This Week

181 Comments

  • 85 2
 Commencal = great value
  • 16 63
flag cameronb3321 (Aug 1, 2014 at 3:48) (Below Threshold)
 As great value as it is, I'm not sure id trust that top tube under a massive case. As many pro riders have tested that, they dont do shit like that and I do D:
  • 46 1
 since the shock is inline with the top tube, it should send the forces straight up the top tube, which should make it pretty strong
  • 73 1
 That's actually one of the cleanest suspension designs I've ever seen, if not the cleanest. Very good looking frame!
  • 9 9
 A ton of older commencal models had durability issues plus they had a stupid short waranty for some frames so I might have to disagree with you on that. They rode great but that was it.
  • 7 5
 @cameronb3321
Win a world cup then you can say you do heavy cases and things. You have no idea. Did you see stevie smith crash? Yeah. Massive case.
  • 23 3
 @Clarry that argument is silly.You do realize if a Pro destroys his bike we rarely see it and it's less of an impact for him. Also yes often regular riders stress their bikes more just because they ride them for longer periods of times and are often more clumsly which leads to stupid mistakes
  • 3 22
flag fecalmaster (Aug 1, 2014 at 5:02) (Below Threshold)
 Another bottle rocket great, thats just what we needed.
  • 107 63
 Hahaha, are you serious?
1. The suspension design is pretty much identical to a Specialized Stumpjumper except for the not Horst-Link linkage point, which here is above the rear axle.
2. The music of the video is stolen by Kilian Brons (Team MIA Santa Cruz) Video.
3. "Aluminum as both a people- and an earth-friendly material" - this is the most ridiculous marketing scam I've ever seen. Wake up people.

Aluminum comes from Bauxit, a commodity of which 90% happens to be found in regions of 50 Million year old tropical rainforests.
Obviously those rainforests get fire cleared, which means that original inhabitants and thousands of even undiscovered animal species are banished and killed.
Then, by further processing Bauxit, toxic waste (red mud) is produced, which contaminates water and again, kills and sickens everything that lives within a radius of hundreds of square miles. The process also needs massive amounts of water and energy, which means even more of the environment has to leave for good to make room for retaining dams. Natives that work in the refineries die with age of 35 and don't earn enough money to feed their families.
That's how f*cking earth-friendly aluminum is.

Now for the people-friendly part... aluminum in deodorant is known to cause (breast) cancer.
It's also contained in many pharmaceuticals as a transport matrix for medical ingredients despite it's provent to cause Alzheimer's desease if taken regularly. You can even find it in food. F#cking awesome this aluminum, right?
Of course we need aluminum for some purposes, but the "greener" argument is just bullsh*t.
And keep the stuff away from your bodies... or don't. Whatever. Your choice.

Oh and by the way, carbon can be recycled. Big companies like Siemens are already doing it.
In your face!
  • 60 8
 The carbon issue is not really the recycling, but the human cost. Pretty much all carbon construction use epoxy prepegs which use huge allergen and probably carcinogenic substances.
Most chinese worker do not have access to correct protection when working on prepeg and frame sanding, and that's 90% of carbon cycle production.
Add that most worker are very young and do not have children yet, so you can imagine long term consequences.

Btw, Meta suspension design has nothing to do with specialized, go learn suspension basic 101.
  • 4 2
 @spaced
I heard that older Commencal frames had issues. Before buing my Commencal bike a made a research on their known issues etc. and people were complaining, but it is worth to emphasize that it was in the past and I wouldn't say that there were tons of the issues, I simply didn't find that many cases in the Internet and I was doing the research for a long time, because I'm that kind of guy, I like to be 100% sure Smile Right now I have Commencal Supreme FR 1 2013 which is built on V3 frame, so it's the third version of the frame. What I want to say by that is that Commencal is attacking the problems and they make changes to make their frames better. I have trusted them and I'm very happy so far and I would recommend buying Commencal (especially based on V3 frames) because I think they made progress and there are no known issues concerning their V3 frame.
  • 21 8
 @ 1 “is pretty much identical …exept for …” well sir, you made that one clear
@ 2 the music was originally brought up in the bike genre by one of silvia’s edits years ago
@ 3 aluminum vs carbon: nobody said aluminum would be harmless, but compared to carbon its a more people- and an earth-friendly material.
  • 21 26
flag mazze (Aug 1, 2014 at 6:41) (Below Threshold)
 Mac-Aravan:
Firstly, I agree with you about the lack of worker protection. But this is not any different to the toxic dust workers inhale in Bauxit refineries, so aluminum is not any better concerning this very matter.
In fact it would be much easier for an uprising industrial nation that China is, to realize appropriate regulation and health standards in production for its own people.
They just autonomously decided to NOT do it, because it would increase production costs significantly and Chinas first priority is still economic growth.
Lives are still 'cheap' there because population is extremely high and most of the people are poor and are willing to risk their own health to help their families (parents) financially.
The rainforest countries on the other hand are not exploiting their own people, but they are exploited by the big aluminum producing companies. Much difference there if you ask me.

As for the suspension design I particularly specified the difference between the Horst Link design and the "V4 contact design", which is namely the pivot points, but other than that it has Specialized written pretty much all over it, since it is using Specialized´s proprietary shock mount and exactly the same linkage. So I guess no further education is needed on my part, but thank you.
  • 17 21
flag poah (Aug 1, 2014 at 6:44) (Below Threshold)
 @mazze

"Now for the people-friendly part... aluminum in deodorant is known to cause (breast) cancer.
It's also contained in many pharmaceuticals as a transport matrix for medical ingredients despite it's provent to cause Alzheimer's desease if taken regularly. "

ahahahahahahahaha, someone believes everything they get in email or facebooks posts. There is no credible evidence to suggest that the aluminium in deo sprays cause either breast cancer or alzheimers disease.
  • 48 3
 I would like to offer a FREE service to recycle all your carbon mountain bike frames. All frames must be complete and working to be eligible for this exclusive program. Just mail the frame and your worries are over! Send me a message for the details...
  • 15 21
flag mazze (Aug 1, 2014 at 6:55) (Below Threshold)
 @poah
There is plenty of scientific evidence, if you are looking for it.
The question that is more likely to come up is, why governments can't find any proof, although it's hitting them in their face.
I'm not going to do the work for you, but there is a lot of scientific studies to that topic.

For the reallife consequences you can also have a look at the biggest poisoning incident in the history of the UK that killed thousands of fish and hundreds of farm animals and people.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camelford_water_pollution_incident
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16045991
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-502442/A-lethal-cover-Britains-worst-water-poisoning-scandal.html
Then there is the environmental disaster of hungary...
www.savingiceland.org/2010/10/hungary%E2%80%99s-worst-ever-environmental-disaster
www.abendblatt.de/vermischtes/article1671697/Bauxitabbau-ist-unwirtschaftlich-aber-Aluminium-gefragt.html

PS: I don't even have a Facebook account.

Are you still laughing? www.allmystery.de/i/t181665_137247092486.jpg
  • 9 3
 So because the shock mounts similar and they use a a similar propietary shock they are identical. Given Specialized's abundance of lawyers and willing to drop a lawsuit at the drop of a hat, I am pretty sure if it was so identical Specialized would be all over this in a New York Minute. The bottom line is the similarities end with the rear shock mount.
  • 4 9
flag nmpearson (Aug 1, 2014 at 7:03) (Below Threshold)
 geez just looking at the v1 and v2 versions just give me bad memories of trying to convince myself they were good mountain bikes. Terrible bikes...just terrible.
  • 8 5
 It's a single pivot. FSR is a virtual pivot.
  • 26 3
 Environmentalists are some of the most passionate people I have ever met, and its a good thing because even if they don't have all the facts, someone needs to make the bastards accountable. That being said though, mazze has completely taken Max's words out of context; Max's quote is in direct response to why no carbon is used in his frames. Max Commencal is right in that aluminum bikes are more earth friendly than carbon because as many other posts above mine state, its all relative. Especially when you consider the process for making carbon strips and forming the frames.

BTW Australia is currently the highest producer of bauxite by a large margin and with the exception of the Northern Territory which has only just started to catch up to the rest of the country, our large scale mining practices are extremely regulated. Mining will always have an impact, but unfortunately its needed because consumers want to consume and buy things which are made from aluminum. Lets not forget that most metals are recyclable too.
  • 5 21
flag tallsean (Aug 1, 2014 at 7:35) (Below Threshold)
 Pull your head out of your ass you f***ing anti-vaxxer.
There is no connection between aluminium and autism.
  • 8 11
 www.bikesngps.de/img/specialized-enduro-comp-2014-b.jpg
Yeah, no resemblance at all, I know. Haha. This is ridiculous. But bring on the hate, I don't give a f#ck.
That is obviously what you get, for wanting to show people something they don't really want to see.

@ZeGermans
You are absolutely right about the fact, that Australia is #1 in Bauxit mining, but the mentioned problems in other parts of the world are uneffected by that.
And looking at those facts, I just don't see that aluminum bikes are more earth friendly. That's it.
I guess in the end you can't just weigh up one against the other, but the ultimate goal was to open people's eyes about the cliché of "clean aluminum" and "dirty carbon". It's just wrong.
  • 16 3
 Siemens in your face!
  • 3 1
 maze hates aluminum I think.... and the-one1 I see what you did there.
  • 10 0
 Being that I program Siemens Controllers that comment made me laugh out loud. Dope bike though! These comments got real quick haha. Great value bike to cancer in like 10 comments.
  • 12 2
 lol as an engineer i can say aluminium is definitely not earth friendly! my guess is that they dont know how to design carbon well and dont want to pay another engineering firm to do it.
  • 3 0
 @Mazze I think that you are right with it looking like a stumpjumper/ enduro. But I think 99% of new trail bikes out there use the same basic (but slightly modified) layout. For example:

www.pinkbike.com/photo/11213123
www.pinkbike.com/photo/11175676
www.pinkbike.com/photo/11178507
www.pinkbike.com/photo/11119775
www.pinkbike.com/photo/10822884
www.pinkbike.com/photo/11245011

while the Kona is quite a bit deferent, they are a very similar in the layout of the linkage system. the tracer the same, but instead of the linkages resting on top on the pivot, they are hanging below.
  • 4 17
flag poah (Aug 1, 2014 at 10:04) (Below Threshold)
 @ mazze

there is no scientific evidence to link aluminum in deo sprays to cancer or other disease.
  • 3 0
 scott spark.
  • 1 0
 although these linkage designs have the "same" basic layout, I can tell you the ride was completely different between the two:

www.pinkbike.com/photo/9769832
www.pinkbike.com/photo/9962094
  • 4 2
 Always love it when people go almost exactly the same... move a pivot a few millimeters and a suspension design can go from perfect to not working at all or the other way round. number of pivots between rear axle and BB... that changes EVERYTHING. looks sweet though...
  • 5 6
 I think it looks like a session...
  • 7 1
 quite a lot of idiotic responses in this comment section. and hefty voting down of cameronb3321's comment about the kink in the top tube being a weak point. in fact it is a weak point, the stresses caused by the fork will focus around the kink and the bb assembly. the rear shock being inline with the top tube is not exactly relevant as you cant count on the rear triangle to always provide equal force back up the tube. the design is inherently not rigid, in that it is what is called a statically indeterminate structure (or a mechanism) in engineering terms it means that the triangle wants to flex but is held rigidly by the welds. whilst this is probably fine, as they will be decent welds. that doesn't change the fact that it is inherently weak, as in much weaker than it could be. its a marketing ploy, who cares how clean the suspension looks, bikes are machines not fashion accessories.

just to finish up, cycling a bike, no matter how hard you go, no matter how many frames youve broken, does not make you an engineer, it does not qualify you to say whether something will break or not. a lot of you out there should learn a thing or 2 before putting people down about there comments. so many of you think that because you bought an expensive bike you know what is strong and what isn't.

the fact of the matter is, that this frame is probably reasonable strong, but only due to the heavy compensatory welding at the kink and the bb.

lets just see if this design makes it onto one of commencals dh frames shall we, i bet it doesnt...
  • 2 0
 @USMC The Specialized Horst Link Patent ran out at the start of 2014...
  • 1 0
 Was mainly referring to him stating it was identical to the fsr not just the Horst link. But thanks for the info.
  • 1 0
 noxxie you are absolutely right about main triangle shape/rigidity relation, but trying to deny the aesthetic concern on a bike design is like trying to hide from rain under a soda cap. Bicycle itself it's about having fun with friends rolling on two wheels, how can engineering and logic explain that need? It all starts and depends on subtle and nimble desires, just like fashion. And it's a fact that the prettier bike will always make you happier.
  • 1 0
 yeah i suppose that's true, for me, the more industrial and bombproof it looks the cooler it looks, but i know that is not an indication of quality or strength. I also go with what looks cool a lot of the time, but my money isn't endless, I look to stretch every last £ out of something i but for my bike, this definitely influences my decision the most. A product of that is that i wouldn't but something that I didn't have absolute confidence in, not just from a safety aspect but a lot from a "i dont want to have to replace this yet" aspect. That's a real big part of my decision making process, i often dont trust shock mountings for example, a lot of them dont look very strong, but my logical mind knows that they are just fine, unless under extreme stress mind you...
  • 1 0
 @esstinkay I agree, all of those bike ride different. But what I'm saying is that this basic layout must be working well for the companies. As I have ridden some of those bikes and they are not alike.
  • 4 0
 best comment ever: "bikes are machines not fashion accessories."
  • 13 0
 A linkage driven single pivot is revolutionary? Yeti 575 from 2006-present. Plus a zillion other bikes. Not saying it's bad - my 575 was a great bike - just saying it's pretty standard fare. I do love all the marketing that tries to explain how our linkage driven single pivot is somehow very different from all of the other ones that are basically the same. Yes, they tucked the shock into the top tube for a clean and different look. Cool.

For those who say it looks like a Specialized, the location of that pivot on the seatstay vs chainstay (Horst Link) makes them very different animals.
  • 4 0
 Gotta agree. On a single-pivot, isn't it only the location of the main CS pivot that really matters?

I'm sure various single-pivot bikes do behave differently from each other, but I caught a number of statements that sound like marketing BS. I don't think I've seen a bike company that doesn't do this tho...It seems to sell bikes, and then after a sale we can re-read this stuff and say to ourselves, "Yeah, man! That's exactly what I experienced!" We humans are so silly sometimes.

Overall looks like a good bike, good component spec, at a decent price.
  • 1 0
 One of the biggest offenders here: Scott. That said, I think my next big bike will be a voltage, because it hits the geo numbers that I want, & single pivot isn't so bad in a long travel chassis.
  • 3 1
 This is why 27.5 wheels came out - people are catching on to the suspension jargon and differences, and are no longer bamboozled by SP, Horst, VPP and all that. You can only say so much to make a single pivot sound interesting, and imo, all this "contact system" stuff just fluff.

Just brag about the cool shock/frame design, that's enough. Besides, noobs will never understand the "linkage driven single pivot" marketing mumbo jumbo. Sometimes I "get" the marketeers, sometimes they're just baffling...
  • 6 0
 There's a reason linkage driven single pivots show up on bike after bike...

It's: easy to manufacture, durable, easy to service, and performs well.

Each bike has their own version of the suspension curve, not to mention other geometry tweaks. That coupled with the various OEM specific valving set ups out there, and you can have 12 single pivot bikes that ride similarly, but different.

It's a good design, and it's not going away any time soon. Sometimes re-inventing the wheel is ok!
  • 1 2
 Some time in the future there will be only one suspension design , maybe with tiny differences but basically the same , there is only one " best " design , not many , just one. ( no idea which it is )
  • 2 0
 Wait a second.... From the video, I can't tell whether it's the AM or Trail model that emits bubbles from the chainstay. I'll pay anything for that technology.
  • 11 3
 All these comments and not a single one mentioning how this wheel size sucks and a different size would obviously be the superior choice and if you don't agree then you are Hitlers left testicle. Amazing.
  • 9 0
 This is so 2013... ;-)
  • 5 0
 Great vid, nice mix of riding.
Lovely clean looking frame.
Not totally convinced about the extra cross welds on the top tube needed to execute the shock mount design though (surely a weak point?).
Can't help but thinking that this design would lend itself so much better to a carbon mould, but hey, I know very little about frame design and Max Commencal knows a lot!
Nice bike.
  • 8 4
 Having owned 2 x commencal bikes I can say "Grip is the word". The whole carbon is bad thing has not resonated with me until recently. I currently own a Nomadc but have to ask, how are these carbon bikes being recycled? They are not. Moving from 26 to 650b is quite an investment (yes they are faster) so this drop is big plus: cheaper than carbon, greener than carbon and commencal grip.
  • 4 0
 Who cares how carbon is recycled??? They charge so much for the frames is not like there's a whole lot of them out there (compared to Al)... 1: they're not like pop cans lying about in the boulevards. 2: they are so strong that a hard rider would probably burn through 4 Al frames for every carbon. 3: even if I did brake one, I would keep it like a trophy- "look I trashed a $4000 frame!!!"
  • 3 1
 Not for me im afraid, just doesnt look as though the weight is low enough like the V3 was, that frame design really appealed too me. The new frame just looks a like the shock is too high for my preference, as stated this is just my opinion but I've never liked bikes with the shock just under the top tube, let alone in it
  • 3 0
 Shock height has minimal influence on Cog because of how litte the shock weights in relation to the whole system (it's bike + rider weight that matters). Yoru cog drops more with a longer tt when your chest lowers than with a lower shock.
  • 2 0
 Maybe your right dude, but for me it just don't look right- I loved commys of past especially v2/v3 but this really does not appeal to me
  • 2 0
 No doubt it looks great but frankly I can not see any innovation here - it's the same old single pivot design, used since the rear suspension was brought to mtb, only linkages are getting more fancy. Nevertheless, a great looking frames.
  • 7 0
 Nothing wrong with single pivot. Multipivots are mostly marketing innovation to differentiate brands or adress a a perceived shortcoming/need of a buyer segment.

New aluminum is not eco. Recycled alu is. Carbon is not recyclable. Carbon itself is no problem, epoxy resin is a huge issue.

What's better than alu and carbon? Quality steel tube bikes.

This one looks really nice. Hope it works better than last iteration which had a bit of a crashy feel to it.
  • 1 2
 Devinci uses single pivot for the Wilson (although they call it split pivot for marketing reasons), and it works really well, I love the bike!

And some companies are recycling carbon, Siemens among them:

www.elgcf.com

www.siemens.com/innovation/en/news/2013/e_inno_1316_1.htm
  • 2 0
 Its a bike... truly ground breaking innovation is hard to find these days. Ignoring components and successful use of carbon as a material, I think the most innovating bike frame specific technology with potential is Lapierre's EI shock system, and even then, its more to do with the shock than the frame. Once that gets further refined again and again and again, it will be incredible (not that it doesn't already have its merits).

Agreed that there is nothing wrong with single pivot designs. If it has the suspension performance you like, the rest of the frame is what you want (geo, stiffness and weight to name a few), and the price is right, buy it.
  • 2 0
 Caivkv, they call it split pivot because the rear pivot and axle are concentric. Designed by Dave Weagle, that's what he calls it. Wilson isn't the only company to utilize the split pivot design.
  • 1 0
 @phobospwns thanks, good to know!
  • 2 0
 Its funny how our products look like the tools we have to design them... The linkage on this bike looks like it came straight off a 3D printer. That said the frame looks like a great design, very clean,strong and simple! Great job.
  • 5 0
 Does that mean we'll see a new DH bike soon?
  • 2 4
 Depends if chinese make a new one.
(troll)
  • 4 0
 There is no way you can pass off aluminium as environmentally friendly, smelting it makes quite a few nasty by products
  • 1 0
 Its all relative to carbon fibre. Would love to see an environmental impact assessment or lifecycle analysis on different bikes and parts. Aluminium can be recycled but most high end alloys would be very lucky to have much recycled content.
  • 2 1
 Actually, it is much more environmentally friendly than carbon or other materials. It is very abundant and takes a lot less energy to make, also can be recycled easier.
  • 1 0
 This bike is pretty much made of old beer cans.
  • 1 0
 not the first 'out of the box' design from commencal - remember the furious?
they don't seem to mind altering their top tubes for suspension designs, and so far it hasn't been a bad thing.
i'll certainly be waiting until rev 3 before I consider buying one myself, but Im cautious that way
  • 1 0
 two things I like:
one: the seat angle is the actual seat angle at all points of seat extension, unlike most of the effective bullshit numbers most companies use. for a tall guy, this is good.
two: the price points are awesome, which I guess is the benefit of going to a direct sales model...
if north american prices are similar, I'd test ride this bike and strongly consider it.
  • 1 0
 Not really, actual seat angle is 72* and effective seat angle is 74* (confirmed by bike designer). Albeit not perfect, it's better than my old meta 55 which is 68/73.
  • 1 0
 I just finished building up a 2014 Meta SX, and now they have the nerve to bring this new design out!?!? Just Kidding, this is awesome. I was actually looking into buying a 27.5 trail bike for 2015, and I was ignoring the V3 metas because they were too heavy, even the hip hop. Now I can just get the new meta am to compliment the sx, which is the best bike ever.
  • 1 0
 Very nice and intelligent design. I like the stand over bending usage for mounting the rear shock there. The linkage looks smooth too. All composition looks simple and clean. I my opinion commencal becomes better and better in a serious stand for an answer in customer needs. I found some honsestly priced offers in several shops with commencal frames, so way to go, or way to run it.
  • 2 0
 Do you remember when Max started Commencal Bicycles? Only steel was the right material..... The only one reason was because it was the only one material he can afford.... Stop the marketing brainwash!
  • 1 0
 As much as I like commensalism their warranty program just sucks! I cracked my super4 on a cross country ride and called several times and finally when I got ahold of them I got the run around, I mean how many of us keep our receipts from a 4 year old purchase??? Lol I kept the box, I wish they would work with their customers if then I'd buy another but till then I'm keeping my intense
  • 4 0
 v4 trail is B-E-A-UTIFUL!
  • 4 0
 I like them, nice and clean lines.
  • 5 0
 I like Commençal.
  • 2 0
 It is still a single pivot...not a bad thing. Regardless of how you dress it up, if the axle is connected to the frame by a single swingarm = single pivot.
  • 1 0
 Here is Meta v3 vs v4 suspension ratio ep1.pinkbike.org/p4pb11244990/p4pb11244990.jpg
and v3 vs v2 cs614720.vk.me/v614720910/1e0a7/KsOucjKQK4Y.jpg
Looks like v2 is more sensitivity than v4 ))))
  • 3 0
 Its all a trade off... Same applies to Yeti's designs, same applies to Specialized designs etc etc... regardless of what they name it. Its just linkages and pivot point placement (and also rail for Yeti) managing leverage ratio and chain tension to manage suspension performance the designer wants to achieve.
  • 2 0
 This is really quite a feat of engineering to craft the top tube in aluminium, kudos Commencal, both for that and for sticking to your values!
  • 1 0
 Nice way to retain heat in the shock. Surround it with aluminum or carbon fiber. Extra large air can? Nope? Looks like you are stuck with that standard overheating shock. NICE
  • 2 1
 You can get it set up with the BOS shock and it has a pretty large air can. (lead Pic)
  • 1 0
 That's a really clean looking bike….I'd say one of the nicest looking F/S bikes out there.

I was all hung up on this thing thinking it was some new Santa Cruz (V4)……Ha- I had to google Commencal
  • 5 2
 that Meta Trail is absolutely gorgeous
  • 4 8
flag cameronb3321 (Aug 1, 2014 at 3:49) (Below Threshold)
 Needs moar cabon.
  • 2 3
 Great bikes, terrible customer service. Lbs broke my rear axle 6 weeks ago, had a guy names Jerome tell me they could send one for free. Never got a thing and found out on PB forums they told another customer they had no axles in stock.
  • 3 4
 looks like a pre 2008 kona
  • 5 0
 if your lbs breaks your axle, it is your lbs who has to refund it. Commencal has nothing to do with it..... I broke my maxle a few weeks ago on the megavalanche. Commencal was really kind to offer my an acceptable solution.
  • 2 0
 @harrybrottman- are you kidding? What pre-2008 Kona does the Commencal look like?
  • 2 0
 in America the customer service blows balls!i would buy another commencal if they were easier to deal with.
  • 1 0
 My lbs did refund me for the amount, but as Commencal is now manufacturer direct and pulled their contract from that lbs they can't get parts from them anymore. Leaving it upto the consumer to deal with Commencal directly. I understand their great to deal with if you live in France, but here in North America there are no representatives for them.
  • 1 0
 As far as I understood, Commencal is going to NA next year so everything will be fine. Service here, in Europe, is good. I never had any issues with them.
  • 1 0
 @AdamChed, sorry for your bad experience, I live in Chile and had a Commençal frame delivery issue and their CS was second to none, BTW thanks to Gregory and Eric at Commençal!!
  • 3 0
 That's one of the cleanest looking full-sus bikes I've ever seen! Awesome.
  • 4 5
 I hate how commencal says always no to carbon. Do they know their frames are horribly heavy? It is surely not an eco matter, but that they don't want to build carbon frames because their profit margin will be lower. I've never heard a Paris-Dakar pilot like max was, to be concerned about earth-friendly anything.
  • 2 8
flag deletedacc123456789 (Aug 1, 2014 at 5:10) (Below Threshold)
 depending on the design, make a carbon frame it's cheaper than a alu frame
  • 2 2
 On the interview of vital mtb, they admit that their company is too small for carbon mold.
  • 3 1
 Also he said something about work enviroment being way too bad in china for the carbon workes....
  • 3 5
 neg prop for say that produce carbon frame it's chaper than the alu frame depending on the design,,, you fucking idiots don't know anything, stupid people neg prop this now
  • 2 0
 shock placement redesigned for piggyback shock, no retail models come with a piggyback shock. da fuq?
  • 1 0
 more of the same, a littel weight reduction ok, but you loose the low center of gravity that the v.3 had ... still a single pivot with a rocker link.
  • 1 2
 "Max Commencal is a self-professed believer in aluminum construction as both a people- and an earth-friendly material, so while replicating the V3 chassis in carbon may have been an easier path to weight reduction, it was not an option."

Seriously Max, stop it. You always have a good justification for every bike you sell. All marketing shit said about the Doctor, Pasta power, First Meta, skin, Suprem and now this Meta, fight against each other. Even about colors of your bike!! Anodized is better! Metal classic paint is better! Flashy glossy paint is better!
Most of the other major brand do the same, yes. But please don't, and stick to your first years spirit of Supernormal bike.

And build a new Pasta.
  • 2 0
 Commençal also made commercials around the slogan "support your lbs". 2 years later they opened their own online shop.
So if they'd make carbon any time soon I wouldn't be that surprised. Actually they already did. Eco- people-argument is just yet another marketin bullshit to make you swallow the pill that the frame weighs 3kg without shock.
  • 3 0
 And guess why they sell online? Because lbs doesn't support them anymore. No other reason.
  • 1 1
 And guess why they no longer make carbon frames ? Max Commençal said it was just a nightmare to see people working in factories producing carbon parts. He said it was way too dangerous, because of the low safety standards. It would otherwise cost so much more to build a frame that nobody would buy them.
  • 3 0
 He says what he wants and I believe what I want. And I don't believe everything I hear.
  • 2 0
 Don't get me wrong. As in any other sport, bold statements and marketing is a very important part for selling stuff to people, and I'm sure what Max Commençal says is no exception. I have no doubt working with carbon is a risky job, though. I simply doubt one can buy a full carbon bike and be sure it was produced in a clean and respectful way. Cheers.
  • 1 0
 Great job choosing a song and not listening to the lyrics - words like "break" should be avoided, when you show folks designing a frame... Austra is great though! Smile
  • 2 1
 Very interesting, although I do prefer the looks to my V3 Meta SX, I think it will be a grower though
  • 2 0
 I hope there's gonna be 180 version!
  • 2 0
 It look so nice and easy to image how it moves when I'm riding.
  • 1 0
 Would be cool if they spec'd a top of the line build with Bos Kirk and Deville suspension bits...
  • 1 0
 glad i recently sold my bike! the new v4 looks ace and the À La Carte-programme sounds auspicious!
  • 2 0
 If you squint you see a hardtail
  • 2 0
 How does the bike look from the other side?
  • 1 0
 thats soooo sick, very clean design, I like it a lot!! great job commencal!!
  • 1 0
 looks super clean. do you have to buy from their site in canada? i couldn't find a dealer location link.
  • 1 0
 I have a big beard, so I know how to ride. Also, black and white shots of guy looking at frame are so FREAKING COOL.
  • 1 0
 This song reminds me of Matt Miles in the fall video from Silvia . Check it out it's worth your time .
  • 1 0
 meta v4 trail...............made by the gods
  • 2 2
 Not loving the paint jobs. Look better raw. Rear shock seals should get a easier time hidden like that tho
  • 4 0
 I've owned the V3 platform for over a year now, not once have I had any issues with the seals on the rear shock, the supplied mud guard does it's job perfectly
  • 2 1
 Agree I really liked the look of it raw and even the white and blue. I think it's cool that it is Al due to environmentally conscience reasons. I remember Bike magazine did an article on how green bikes are. I think it went steel, aluminium, aluminium plus rare earth metals, titanium then carbon fibre. I think bamboo with hemp composite lugs is the greenest but wicked pricey and not enduro rated.
  • 3 0
 The foam shock strip does work very well. The only shock problem I had was that Commencal specced the 2013 Meta SX with that godawful Fox Float CTD garbage in the first place. Swapped it out for an X-Fusion O2 RLX which looks to have been a solid choice since they are speccing the 2015 Meta with the same shock. Not sure on the new design though, the current Meta is a very distinctive bike, this new one does just look a lot like a lot of other bikes out there sadly, however time and reviews will tell.
  • 2 0
 Yeah, the CTD wasn't the best, I sent mines of to TF tuned for a push upgrade and it's been night and day also it looks great with the new "blackshima" stanchion
  • 1 0
 Pushima all the way!
  • 1 0
 Choppertank3e,

Bamboo!!Are you f@cking mental man?THINK OF THE PANDAS!!!
  • 2 0
 neat and clean
  • 1 1
 It's a nice clean design but I would be a bit worried about the shock/top tube cut-out getting clogged with mud.
  • 1 0
 3kg for frame only isn't light !!!!
  • 4 0
 Well true for plastic or beer can bikes, but for a commencal it's light, meta 55 since 2010: 3.3kg, meta v3: 3.5kg, that was the price to pay since castastrophic 2008-2009 failures (frames were lighter). Meta v3 are mostly bomb proof.
  • 2 0
 i gobble the cock
  • 1 0
 That looks like a stumpjumper
  • 1 0
 i think that looks similar in function to Santa Cruzs' AAP design
  • 1 0
 if its good enough for the red-bearded wizard. its good enough for me!
  • 1 1
 Looks like every other bike that's coming out these days (specialized, pivot, kona)
  • 1 0
 i really like the brake mount being protected on the inside.
  • 1 1
 I thought that was a neat idea. Until your left heel gets smashed into a rock because your rear end is now wider because of it. Looks like unnecessary innovation for marketing sake.
  • 1 0
 i guess i can see that, but with my tr450, its gota 150mm hub. different for sure, but i ahve no problems with heels smashing. Wink
  • 1 0
 Someone please tell me this is available in the US
  • 1 0
 It will be available in September! pm me if you are interested.
  • 1 0
 That is one clean looking frame....
  • 1 0
 well done Commencal. Pure love. Beautifuly executed !
  • 1 0
 Looks very clean. Make it in raw please!
  • 1 0
 You can have it anodized, then strip it with caustic soda. Tadam, pure raw aluminum.
  • 1 0
 There goes all of your shock options..
  • 1 0
 I would like to see the 4x version of the meta
  • 1 0
 The Trail looks straight murderous
  • 1 0
 I'm just pissed as I've only had my v3 about 2 months.
  • 1 0
 sex on wheels
  • 1 0
 No SX version?
  • 1 0
 patience
  • 1 1
 No space for a Vivid Air or CCDB in there, right?
  • 1 0
 What about the Meta 4x?
  • 1 0
 Hello knee strikes.
  • 1 1
 glad they have finaly ditched shitty fox suspension!
  • 1 1
 Looks like fsr / kona process
  • 1 0
 Silvia
  • 1 1
 Stick a dual crown on there and ill be happy!!!
  • 2 4
 yeah lets put the shock in the frame so you can't use another one for life Wink
  • 3 1
 you should be able to fit anything but a coil in there by the looks of it!
  • 3 0
 Apart from a Cane Creek.
  • 3 0
 Yeah, that's what they said, anything apart the Cane Creek shocks
  • 3 3
 yeah anything but the sickest shocks on earth, what a shame
  • 2 0
 not a huge loss i would say. let's face it, a tuned float x or a bos kirk is just as good a shock.
  • 2 0
 are you sure not even a cc db inline would fit?
  • 1 0
 i had a dbair, i never wanna go back. handed it over for an rc4 a few weeks ago, never had my bike feel quite this good.
  • 6 9
 Similar design to the Specialized stumpjumper.
  • 5 1
 No, there's a linkage in the middle of it. You just can't see it. It's on the article on VitalMTB
  • 2 1
 Yes, actually. The seat stays actuate a rocker link, and the rocker link actuates the shock, just like on a stump jumper. The pivot locations are changed a little, but the system is the same. Do bare in mind the Spec is FSR, so will have different characteristics for sure.
  • 2 0
 It has nothing to do with Spe FSR, it's sad to see than on PB most lusers are not even aware of difference between FSR,, VPP, single pivot, single pivot with linkage, DW split pivot and so on.

The only similarity is on the shock link that wrap around seatpost, which look like the one use on Specialized, but clever: you don't need special shock like on Spe.

But since it has a shock, a link and look like a bike with two wheels, it's a Specialized stumpjumper for sure!
  • 1 0
 "Do bare in mind the Spec is FSR, so will have different characteristics for sure."

It's really sad that a point can be covered completely accurately and someone will still come by to correct you. His point was it uses a similar seat stay to rocker set up, and it does. In that respect, it is similar. Don't be too fast to be snarky, might just come off as rude. Cheers.
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