Photo Epic: Off to an Electric Start - Mont-Sainte-Anne XC and eMTB World Champs 2019

 Interesting. Make the downhillers and xc riders swap bikes and race. Who is the fittest downhiller and who is the fastest xcer?

 @tobiusmaximum: something like ski combined race (one downhill + one slalom)

 @opignonlibre: I shoulda been a bit more specific, I mean get all the downhill riders on xc bikes and have a race. And get all the xc riders on dh bikes and have a race. Don’t get ya knickers twisted, I do realise xc racing is up and down. Strangely, downhill also requires fitness.

 @opignonlibre: I don’t think you got randomly downvoted, although it is possible, I suspect it was partly your ‘last time I checked’ tone.. coupled with a glaringly obvious statement. You continue to state that xc combines both fitness and skill? Even though dh does too? I don’t know mate, you’ve lost me.

 @opignonlibre: I think you’ve totally missed the point of what I suggested, but that’s okay. I also think you’re trying to suggest that an Xc track somehow compares, skill wise, to a dh track. I hope not. I think throughout the whole thread you’ve sort of alluded to the idea that xc tests fitness and skill and downhill somehow doesn’t. But I must have that wrong, because that would be crazy.

 @tobiusmaximum: XCFreeride

 @opignonlibre: does anybody actually care about the upvotes/downvotes?

 Crankworx is already here

 They have a race of champions, its called King and Queen of crankworx.

 @tobiusmaximum: Nino would take the win

 @opignonlibre that’s fair enough, and I agree that you can tell the difference between riders descending prowess within an xc race. I don’t think @tobiusmaximum is trying to see who’s better though. I think he just wants to put them all out of their comfort zone and get them to swap disciplines for a day, just for shits and giggles... now that would be funny I reckon!

 @onemind123: gawd I really hope not, but I suspect it matters to some folks ... what anonymous cubicle riders think ????

Anyone ever read the series of books: Uglies, Pretties, etc..? Its where we’re going, sadly.

 I think the motor goes a longer way in enduro than just being used for the transitions.
The EWS did a test event last year in Finale: www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMj18XL32r0
It kinda opens up some new possibilities in track design such as technical uphills and - what probably stuck most with me - riders can accelerate out of corners on a totally different level.
Factor in also the considerations of battery preservation and you can get an interesting format IMO.

 The point is to go fast and be the first to cross the line, isn't that why we race?

 But all motors and batteries are not equal.
So it becomes more about technology than fitness or skill. This isn’t F1 or MX

 Sure, but neither are bikes in general. I think the main issue is that people try to adapt the existing formats to e-bikes without adjusting them.

 @raozaki: Switch the freehub against a generator

 @Richt2000: but the rules limit max wattage output... motors are essentially equal. And with wattage capped, there's a max battery size that you could realistically use up during the course of a race, making batteries roughly equal too.

IMO having timed climbs, especially steep/techy ones, is a way more interesting ebike format than just using them as quasi-shuttles in an enduro format. I'm not necessarily an ebike fan but the Tour Du Mont Blanc format seems legitimately super cool... brutal climbs, massive elevation gain/loss, 85% singletrack, hike-a-bikes, etc.

 @bkm303: "but the rules limit max wattage output... motors are essentially equal."

Rules shmules! I think the 'mechanical doping' would spiral wildly out of control unless heavily regulated some how.

I say if there's going to be e-bike enduro racing, just call the category E-Bike Open, where the only rules are battery-powered pedal-assist only and minimum and maximum weight limits (easy tech inspection). Design the courses to ensure bike designers/mechanics have to consider battery consumption, but otherwise let 'em have at it with the bike! I think that would actually be fun to watch since you wouldn't have to worry about whether or not someone's bike is unfairly faster than another's... because there wouldn't be any "unfairness" in the bike design.

 @MTBrent: yeah no dispute there, mechanical doping will be a huge concern... I'm actually curious how they enforce those limits. Put the winning bikes on a dyno? idk. A straight up bike (or bike + pack) weight limit would be a good way to go, they'd just have to work out how bike/battery/motor weight should relate to rider weight to make it fair(ish).

 @bkm303: And how can they possibly monitor and regulate it? They already can't figure when a TDF rider cheats with a motor...

 @bkm303: Have the limit be the "fuel". Just like in F1 and MotoGP (I believe), everyone gets the same amount of fuel per race, make the most of it. Everyone would have to use the same batteries, maybe given to the teams at the beginning of the race. Although this would limit better battery designs it would force them to improve efficiency. Not saying this is the best option but it could level the playing field some.

 Torque output is way more important than watts are for a motor

 @Richt2000
It would make much more sense that the emtb race was a bunch of middle aged out of shape people with day jobs. Then the technological winner would be clear.

 @pcassingham: this would be a relatively simple thing to sort out! If races were limited to 400watt batteries and 250 watt max output, its simple math to figure a 2 hour race would drain batteries. It would force riders to switch between modes to conserve fuel and use strategy to figure when and how they use it. Very interesting concept!

 Let me solve this for you. One single company (say, Haibike) supplies all riders with a identical bike. Tech out of the equation, it is all down to the riders now.

 @vinay: sponsors will love that....

 @bkm303: Look, these are the Worlds where athletes ride for their country instead of for their team. In BMX racing riders actually get support from their national federation, race for their national team etc. In mountainbiking, it are the teams and sponsors who support their athletes year 'round. Yet at the worlds they don't get to show their sponsors etc. Could just as well let the countries all buy the same bikes and let them race on that.

The other alternative would be that instead having the "Mercedes" world cup as we have now, you just have one bike brand that hosts a whole series, supplies riders with bikes and all that. I'm not into car racing, but I recall you also had/have the Renault Clio races where all drives drive that same model and it really is about driver skill.

One other alternative I can think of if bike brands really want to have a competitive e-bike format is that they actually need to agree upon certain specifications they need to comply with. After the race, all bikes are handed to e-WADA for scrutineering. When a bike is found to not comply, no matter if the athlete was directly sponsored or not, all bikes from that brand (or at least that model) are exempt from competition for the remainder of the season and possibly even for next season. This should be good reason for bike manufacturers to actually put effort into making bikes that can not be messed with.

 @vinay: "Look, these are the Worlds where athletes ride for their country instead of for their team"

I still don't think a Scott/Trek/etc are going to love their sponsored riders racing on a Haibike. Sponsored riders' jerseys still have sponsor names/logos on them. And I assume they'll want their regular mtb athletes crossing over to compete in ebike comps to show that the whole ebike thing is legit.

There was an interesting scene in the recent Fox Dialed video that showed them calibrating the bikes for max assist speed (put the bike in a track, roll it a known distance to measure wheel revs, then Shimano/Bosch/etc reps adjust the software limits). After this all the bikes had to be stored in a secured/supervised corral until competition. So it seems like there's already some agreement between mfrs about how to handle this.

 Ha ha, watch Cathrovision Day 1.
Wyn Masters didn’t seem that impressed at all
Lol

 This x10000

 Specialized. About three years ahead of everyone else.

 Anyone who DNFs... short circuits?

 @MTBrent: That's an open circuit bro.

 It was a highly charged race environment

 Well done - nothing left to say.

 esp given Martinez won at 98 worlds mt st anne.

 Nice ... I pre-rode with Andreas on Tuesday What a great ambassador It was totally cool to see the old dogs back on the horse

 Nope! They have the same max power but the power curve for how and when the power is delivered varies widely between manufacturers.

 Disagree. You only have to ride a brose motor and then a shimano motor to see the difference. Both 250W. Its so open to hacking its untrue.

 I think this point of the ebike category being more of a draw for manufacturers is really interesting and one that we'll see play out more and add to the growth of this discipline. I have more of a running background and the constant complaint is there's no money in the sport (untrue but compared to cycling - yes). I'd say that's because of the insignificant difference of shoe to shoe - the biggest technological jump has been Nike's 4% shoe - Compared to every year bikes get 10% lighter, 30% stiffer etc, When manufacturer's have a reason to pump money in they do and it grows the sport. I think this will show up in ebikes

 @skeeple: It’s all about money. MTB is tapped out and the investors/companies want more profit. Hence the insane push by manufacturers and the media to sell this crap. If it takes hold in the mainstream MTB world then it will eventually be seen by people who wouldn’t really be interested in MTB (because it’s too hard for their weak leg/fat gut combo) and ultimately open up a new customer base.

 @jclnv: @jclnv: Completely agree. This new "sport" is nothing more than a marketing ploy to get non-MTBers to buy e-bikes and to expand and diversify product lines.

 @skeeple: Racing "legitimizes" e-bikes to the masses, and racing sells e-bikes - otherwise manufacturers would not bother.

Regardless, land and trail managers better get their poop in a group and decide where these motorbikes can and cannot go.

 It is definitely a new PED-like scandal waiting to happen. So easy to implement some software ran inspection bypass. Those kinds of competition should only be ran on exact spec bikes attributed randomly to riders before the start.

 Technically speaking, they all have he same max power and battery size. But how that power is delivered can be COMPLETELY different between manufacturers. I can put a beginner on a blind test between bikes with Yamaha, Bosch, or Bafang motors and even they can tell a distinct difference.

Bafang for example tends to be an All-or-nothing kinda delivery. This makes for a very sudden and uncontrollable acceleration.

Bosch is the middle ground. It prefers lower gears and high cadence. It’s a bit harder to jump out of corners that way but the power is there when you need it once up to speed.

Yamaha uses more sensors and has a more functional use of power across a wider variety of gears and cadences. This allows for a much more realistic bicycle experience. It’s also faster in a racing scenario because it allows use of all those small little pedal kicks that are not possible on less sensitive systems.

I’m only using these brands because I have a lot of experience with them. I know there are lots of good options available.

 @opignonlibre: If you think that’s hard to police, try and spot eBikes out on the trail that have hacked throttles...

The whole thing is going to end in a shitmix and the sport will be vastly worse off for it..

 @HurricaneCycles: and hence these thing are motor-bikes and not bicycles, specially when it comes to racing.

 @matadorCE: You are correct. They are motor bikes. But it has been made rather obvious recently that despite the kick back from the mtb crowd, they are even more out of place on a moto track.

It’s an entirely different sport that is looking for a home. It will continue to develop and will most likely welcome its own track design and associated culture.

I don’t think anyone is disagreeing that it is a motor powered bike. The big disagreement is over which sport it is more like and that is absurd. It’s an entirely different thing. Just let it grow.

 Not the same course

 I know right?! Why are there no spyshots or anything?

 @zonaec: There have been spyshots in the wild for a little while already. People are just not interested as it looks like shit and trek is a bit of a *yawn* brand.

 Yeah, no official release at the moment. Some retailers of the brand are posting pictures on their instagram accounts tho.

 Image here

Jolanda's bike https://www.brujulabike.com/trek-supercaliber-primeras-imagenes/

 @chribi: Thanks, those are good shots. Looking forward to seeing the geo and other details.

 @acasey802: Trek probably should have kept the cover on it.

 Nope, hence why Wyn Masters came 27th and Absalon came 3rd. Wyn is by far a better bike handler but fitness still comes into it as the bike is only boosting what you put in. So if Wyn can only put in 300 watts of effort up a climb but Absalon can put in 400 watts then Absalon will still be a lot faster. It would only even out if Absalon was using his battery in a different way ie if he was on an eco mode whilst Masters was on turbo. Disclaimer I have a Levo and a non-ebike and very much pro ebike. I can ride more downhill trails in my fairly restricted bike time and still return home shattered so i find myself always reaching for the ebike.

 It's just a competition of who's the lightest. The bikes are basically putting out a fixed power amount. So whoever is lightest will have the best power to weight. Kind of lame.

 @smgishot13: oh yee of little knowledge. Try riding a few different Ebikes and only then come back and tell me it’s all about weight. Sure it’s important just like any other racing sport but it is FAR from the only aspect.

 Watt? Why the resistance?

 This race came like a shock to me! They could have done so much better than this! In the end this race was such a waste of energy and potential.

 cause humans will race anything that moves brah.

 @bigtim: ohm G

 If the UCI legitimizes it as a racing format, bike manufacturers have a platform to stand on to sell more of these. I get that ebikes are here, but to make this a world champs race is confusing, clearly these aren’t the fastest XC riders on the planet- so what’s the point? Every competition in the world ultimately determines who the best is, except this race.

 In this current opinion pole it gets my volt.

 @kuna26: If the UCI are giving eMTB a Worlds platform amongst the XC and DH, then where's the UCI sanctioned cargo bike race on the road circuits? Utility cycling is a category that requires support for manufacturers to market on a wider platform, and arguably will benefit more people if taken up.

 @Isey: I agree, and I hope over the next couple years they find a better format to race E bikes. Looking forward to seeing where it ends up down the road.

 @ROOTminus1:

(tongue only slightly-in-cheek) there's a long history they could build on too . .

www.blackbirdsf.org/courierracing/journaux1932fr.html

 @H3RESQ: E-road world champs brought to you by Duracell Batteries.

Can't wait. ( ° ͜ʖ͡°)╭∩╮

 These Motos are slllloooowww though

 @acasey802: I lol'd

 Ready for the catwalk