Mondraker Debuts Sub 20kg Crafty Carbon e-Enduro e-MTB

 Priced right for a motorbike

 @SacAssassin: I'll take a used motorbike and a nice MTB.

 @SacAssassin: KTM E-XC is cheaper than this bike.

www.rideapart.com/articles/253370/ktm-introduces-freeride-e-xc-electric-offroader

 And just almost exactly twice the weight of my Ibis Hd3!!!! So light!!!!!!!!!!

 I completely misread the title. Was thinking "Hmm, sub 20lb e-MTB, that's pretty amazing". Then realised it said sub 20KG! Oh...

 @abzillah: agreed this is crazy.

 @abzillah: exactly! If you're going to do it, do it properly.

 @CircusMaximus: The whole E sector is crazy

 @abzillah: bet it's cheaper to maintain as well

 @abzillah: KTM E-XC Freeride all day! Asked a Ranger what is the update on the E-Bike regulations on the local trails....said is not allowed at the moment, but I'll have to get back to you on that ruling....ride away. KTM E-XC is falls in between, since is Electric powered, no current regulations as far as everyone knows...E-Bike it is currently?

 @abzillah: yeah it`s crazy. Also, I don`t know in North America but here riding public trails with a MX is just impossible `cos it`s strictly forbidden, so in my poor head I`d say: let`s get an electric mx with pedals so they`ll think it`s a bicycle

 @abzillah: unbelievable!

 @softsteel: Same here in California, riding MX on local trails are not allowed, but we do have designated areas for moto riding that we can do day trips to.

 @drivereight: Legally in the US, E-bikes can only have pedal assist, no throttle. KTM E-XC has a "motor" and not just assist, so counts as a "motorized vehicle" and is banned from most trails.

 @greendarthtater: Yeah but you can buy as powerful motorized bikes with pedals so that’s what I’ll be buying when everyone is riding these instatwat eCycles..

 @abzillah: temecula CA here. I can get on my $1500 Craigslist dual sport bike and ride out of my garage to plenty of low key trails in public open spaces. If you're outside of a city and a little creative there's moto riding for days.

 @abzillah: and 5 times the weight. And not a bicycle.

 @Mcanical: Sh!t only $19,019.68 Canadian before tax what a bargain, I'm sold I sell my truck to by one!!!!!!!!!

 @SacAssassin: Brand new Yamaha YZ250 and a Trek Slash 9.9 is the same price

 @duzzi: 21-pound IBIS HD3. That's a world first

 @Mcanical: get with the times you Luddite

 @abzillah: check the price now and try too buy one. unless you in Austria forget it. its all marketing...for now.

 @beeekilbee: top model RR SL has Recons on it. While the RR has Minions.

 my brothers ol 2006 Rocky Mountain RM7 weighed somewhere around 56 pounds

 You'll love the direction the 2022 Mondrakers are going in then:
www.pinkbike.com/photo/18020703

 @acali: Was this done in paint?

 @highlinenthusiasm: As a Paint master, i'm sure he did it with his d**k ahahaha, but well played made me laugh

 @acali: That gets a big HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

 @acali: Your a very bad person,..........small coronary there for a minute. OMFG that thing is ugly. Be fun to be able to rent that POS and 'gift' it to a buddy with all his buddies there (making sure to add pink handlebar streamers....)!!!1

 Close, but it doesn't matter how much power the bike has, right now in the USA, if it has a throttle and an automatic transmission it is considered a moped by law which requires a license. this is a future sticky legal situation and I predict they will change the law as technology progresses and automatic trannys are integrated into class 1 ebikes.

 thanks, was fearing the hours of conversion work.

 @iantmcg: Some imperials don't even know what conversion means.

 @iantmcg: you may need conversion therapy

 That is about 3 stones!

 42.54 pound in actual units

 I CANNOT.

 Having less travel on an eBike is like negotiating for a pay cut.

 Handling

 Or choosing the smaller battery to save weight on a eBike. So much nonsense

 It's for when your stomach is too big for climbing, but your balls are too small for descending.

 @High-Life: Perfect!

 @utley06: handling who?

 A 130-140mm travel bike/ e-bike is way more fun!

 Bigger issue for me is specing a non reservoir shock.

 @friendlyfoe: industry and rich clientelle standard. Throw 8k for a Yeti or SC and put a regular Float on it to save weight.

 I didn't replace my Enduro with my Levo.. I replaced my Stumpjumper. Anywhere I need the travel of my Enduro or DH bike, I am on a chairlift or back of a truck. Everywhere that I would ride a Stumpjumper, I ride my Levo. The added weight also adds stability and let's you get away with less travel.

 @swan3609: the question is why would you want less travel on a regular bike? Cuz efficiency and feedback and poppiness. Add 7kg motor and all these “pros” disappear. So whiy wouldn’t you get all the travel if climbing it is no longer a problem and you are using heavy tyres anyways? I am trying to understand.

 @friendlyfoe: Exactly. Spending that much $ and getting a DPS???

 @aljoburr: How? You're not actually pedaling the thing. Then you get to the top just to have a shitty time coming down.

 @WAKIdesigns: this was my one major take away from riding an ebike, there's just no point in having less than 180-200mm travel, traditionally less travel has been synonymous with less weight and better pedalling edficiency, basically travel denoting the capability and strength of a bike to a degree (i.e. a dh bike is stronger than an xc bike).

With e-bikes that weigh a small ton and do the pedalling effort for you, there's just no point in low travel options.

 What are you riding that you actually need 180mm of travel? This is a classic case of morons buying a 1300cc motorbike and never going above 90mph. Learn to max out 140-160mm, then ask why you aren't running 120mm. Overforked bikes are lame to ride and scream knob....

 @graniteandrew: rocks, big rocks. Lot of them? And even if not, there is no popping an Ebike, so what’s the point?

 @graniteandrew: What aren't you riding that needs 180mm of travel. You don't buy an e-mountain bike to ride around a parking lot. Isn't the whole point having the pedal assist on the way up to access DH trails? Idk...maybe you live in Florida.

 @graniteandrew: come to whistler, pemby and squamish and the north shore and you will see why,

 @graniteandrew:

That analogy makes absolutely no sense, and actually shows how disconnected you are. A 1300cc bike will accelerate faster than most other bikes, and you don’t have to break the speed limit to have fun with the acceleration. AKA, there is more than one use for the displacement other than just speed.

And just because you have 180mm of travel doesn’t mean you can’t tune the suspension to be the floatiest thing ever on a local trail.

 @norona: I am sad to say but the cities you mentioned apparently are the birthplace of Down Country. You either have smooth trails or so gnarly some folks decided they need a bike for surfing chicken lines with pride...

 @WAKIdesigns: 35 years of riding, 18 years racing xc endurance and adventure as a pro and now 15,000km on e-bikes. Grew up on the shore. I also ride moto and trials here in the corridor....big suspension is the only way to roll. Makes no difference on climbing an e-bike since I ride up a lot of the techy single track and then it makes you not die on the super steep tech that is this area. I said it three seasons ago when I started only on e-bikes, more susension is what yo want. Have no idea why anyone would by anything lower...the only reason you don't on an acoustic bike is cost and because you have to pedal it up under your own steam.

 @WAKIdesigns: Not everyone rides to pop off of stuff. As far as how much suspension you need depends on what trails you ride. Longer travel means slacker geometry and sluggish handling. If you ride fast twisty single-track up and down then less suspension will just handle better.

 @WAKIdesigns: the same reason I built a hardtail 29er.. Because I don't always need a ton of travel for the trails I ride, and in fact too much travel and aggressive of geo make lots of my local rides kind of boring. I don't need a 180mm of travel on my ebike.. I have a 180 and 200mm bikes and they get ridden at the resort. Most of my ebike rides are on less technical terrain where I don't need my Dh bike.. And if I did have that much travel, it would make the trails easier to a point where it's not as fun.

 @WAKIdesigns: exactly: kenevo > levo

 @chriskneeland: I take it your not speaking from experience, go take your DH bike to a pump track!

 I got my answers. Thank you for joining in Waki poll...

 @ranke: depends on where. Kenevo is useless for my use.

 @norona: I have ridden and raced all those areas and more, kootenays, bham, seattle, all over BC and the west coast. I have been sizing down bikes for years. Nobody needs 180mm of travel for trail riding.
10 years ago sure, you needed a DH rig, but now you or I can ride anything in whistler on a 160mm trail bike, suspension design is just that much better, sure you can add speed to tech sections with some extra cush, but its not special or fun like sniping a tech. Ebikes are great, but they don't need to be pigs. @chriskneeland I use my Ebike as a DH bike, and I live in WA we have two hills here and I hear a trail is being built on one....

 @graniteandrew: Ebikes will always be pigs, no matter how little travel they have.

 @chriskneeland: haters gotta hate I suppose, you do know sub 40lbs is a year or two away.

 @graniteandrew: I don't hate, it's just not really mountain biking when it's motor biking.

 @chriskneeland: riding an ebike resembles riding a mtb like 8/10, whereas by comparison to a motorcycle like MX it wouldn’t score 3/10. It is uncomparable.

 You still pedal to make it go my man. They climb like man powered bikes, just with assistance, so sinking into 180mm travel on a steep or technical climb still feels not as good as 150mm.

 @WAKIdesigns: But...is still motor biking.

 @chriskneeland: well terms like motorbike or moped are reserved for other kind of vehicles, just ask any child you want. There is no medal and nobody thinks you are smart or witty if you call an Ebike a motorbike or motorcycle. You are doing a disservice to yourself. It’s an E-bike or E-mtb.

 @chriskneeland: I used to feel the same way about ebikes until I got to spend some time on one . It's a mountain bike not a moped or scooter. You can control the amount of resistance which just means you don't gas out on long uphill or steep climbs. They are not for everyone but there is no reason to put down anyone who chooses to use them.

 @BeerGuzlinFool: I'm not hating. I come across people on them. They're loving it. But ebiking is not mountain biking. We're not doing the same thing.

 @chriskneeland: Actually it's all how you use them. It you use turbo mode all the time then I agree. It does make things to easy. But if you use the lower assist levels then it actually feels like a regular mtb. My original fear about e mtb's was that it would cause trail closures. Anyone that has spent time on one knows that they don't cause anymore trail damage than a regular bike.

 @BeerGuzlinFool: I just did afterwork 4200’ 20 mile loop. All Mtb dedicates single track, in under 2 hours, and I’m a long ways away from race shape. Pretty nice option for dads!

 @graniteandrew: I'm with you. I just got a Levo last month. I can put in 15 - 20 miles and still function after the ride. It's also the first time I've been able to ride without any knee support in almost 12 years.

 when the back only has 135mm?

 @WAKIdesigns: I can pop my ebike over a 12" log, you either haven't ridden a good one or getting old.

 @DDoc: I can plop a 12" log on your eBike

 Yeah that sounds about right.

 If you thought bikes had abysmal resale values before, wait till you see what happens to a $14.5k eBike over the course of five years.

 Thats $325 per pound. About the price of mid grade cannabis

 No they are telling you they will sell 4 of these so they have to try to recover costs somehow.

 @owlie:

I’d take the smoke

 Can you really put a price on having the calves of a bulemic runway model though?

 Holy sh*t. And I doubt I need to remind anyone the Ripmo AF base is $3k with nice suspension.

 I wonder if it’ll snap like my foxy xr Carbon did too!

 This is just freaking nuts

 They probably have a recycling program where you can get a discount on the 2021 model if you trade in your empty 2020 bike.

 Yeah that is not good. There has got to be a way to replace it. Otherwise you would just toss the frame of the battery went bad?

 I've been wondering about this myself. Rocky Mountain has a fully integrated battery on their E-bikes as well. What then, when the battery starts to diminish over time?

 With battery and motor technology still evolving pretty quickly, people will throw it away in a few years anyway and by the latest version. Don‘t think in mountain bike terms, like „tomorrow I‘m gonna pull my 97 Zaskar out of the shed and give it a spin“. Just another aspect in which these creations are _not_ bicycles.

 A bit like these then: www.vice.com/en_uk/article/neaz3d/airpods-are-a-tragedy
Should we buy things that are similar?

 @FuzzyL: it’s all very eco friendly....

 You have to remove the motor to remove the battery. They say non removable because it's not easy. The batteries couldn't handle the heat from the curing of the frame......

 @ziles: exactly. Prime example how a big part of the bicycle industry is totally failing right now. This will all blow up, sure thing.

 @ziles: It is nuts how much of this useless crap is being produced nowadays. To me it was/is the same with their watch. Before the first version was released, it was already clear that it would hardly last a full day on a single battery charge. With the way batteries degrade over time, it would become useless in a year time. They only needed early adopters to fund the second iteration. But yeah, to produce something that can't safely be taken apart for recycling is pretty bad. Actually, I wasn't really aware these earbuds were from Apple. According to European regulations, an electronic device should be able to perform for at least two years. This in order to avoid flooding the market with all this e-junk.

 @Krafkloot: In the snow world, POW (Protect our Winters) are setting a good example, we seem to be a bit behind in realising that we are potentially destroying the things we need to ride an MTB on. Dirt, forests and land need to be preserved for us to ride on and it seems to me that this kind of product is probably doing exactly the opposite.

 It means that the battery is bolted on in a way that would not be conducive to easy removal. That’s different than non-serviceable.

 @vinay:
I wonder if it’s anything like the Jura discount program? “Oh, you spent $xxxx on this? Here’s less than 15% off the new model!”

 @nickfranko: Jura, the yeti of the coffee machine world. I do love mine though.

 over 20,000 km before any diminish, and battery comes out in this, rocky and norco, you just have to pull the motor, so not easy for quick on trail, like scott, devinci etc.

 @SimbaandHiggins: pull motor and it slides out, just not a quick change on the trail

 @CircusMaximus: no more or less eco friendly than an acoustic bike. You never worried about all those parts carbon etc going into the garbage bin before. Like computers a lot of the elements of these batteries are recyclable. Nothing is 100% so suddenly your worried about it, all those tires, parts from acoustic bikes, are you collecting them?

 @norona: making just a few assumptions there! Wow it’s almost like you know me.
I don’t think “acoustic” bikes are eco friendly either. Terrible term btw.
Neither is an EV eco friendly.
I get it.
Thanks for the lesson.

 @vinay: They don't have a real warranty program, let alone what you are mentioning.

 @SimbaandHiggins: it’s like an iPhone, they get you hooked and you just upgrade.

 THese batteries have thousands of cycles before the lose health. Pretty much a lifetime worth of riding for most. Stop talking about things you know nothing of. Or stop pretending to care about the environmental factors....

 @slayerdegnar: it was a joke. Lighten up.

 @slayerdegnar: They really don't have thousands of cycles before they lose health. On my commuter bike that the battery has been looked after properly and used 2 - 3 times a week it has started losing range (compared to new) after about 8 months.

 @bigtim: something is wrong with your battery then, I have 8000km on on a shimano 500w/h battery and it works a perfect as my new ones...2-3 times a week is nothing for use...

 @bigtim: People say different things about how to treat lithium ion batteries. Some say you need a good hard discharge every now and then, others say deep discharging accelerates the wear just like with a lead-acid battery. It is probably a combination of the two so I'd say if you regularly discharge it pretty deep then it will wear quicker than if you stay in the upper half and regularly recharge. I don't have a bike with pedal support but I do have a phone with a lithium ion battery. It is a Nokia 108 from before Microsoft and HMD subsequently bought the name, five or six year old now. The battery may not be as new, but I usually recharge it once a week or so and it usually is far from empty at that point. It seems people with those smartphones really need to recharge every or every other day or they'll not make it through. And it seems their batteries degrade quicker. I'd say that's probably because they discharge their batteries deeper.

So yeah going back to commuter bikes I would expect if you want the battery to last you a long while, get the biggest battery you can get so that it is far from empty when you recharge it. So if you travel 30km, get one that gives you a 60km range and recharge it after every ride. Mind you this is advice from an armchair e-biker who knows little about the finer details of batteries, so you may like to double check with the experts.

Even if my advice were correct, it wouldn't really work for the way people look at mountainbikes. Carrying the extra weight of the bigger battery and not completely using it may not be what people buy these for. I'm not necessarily against pedal assist bikes on the trail but I'm far from pro for this very reason. For commuter use, they make a lot of sense in my book. And as reliability and durability there actually get the attention they deserve (and weight is less of an issue), the bigger battery is a sensible investment in my book.

 Very important to keep the battery warm for max life, no freezing garages!

 @vinay: stop typing bs and try one.

 that´s a good point. trouble starts, when there are issues with the batterie or if you are gonna travel with your bike. Flying is nearly impossible. Not everybody can put his bike in a warm place during cold winter or even has access to power to recharge. Looks cool, saves some weight...BUT!

 2,222 packof frozen meatballs from Ikea!!! damn i'm sure we can trust your number on this!!
comment has made my f*** day at the office
thanks man

 I tried it and just found how ridiculous it is, and how obvious it is, that if you want a motor you should get a motorbike.

 last weekend had at home new Levo and new Shuttle, before I already tested old ones and some other emopeds... still not impressed!

 @cebe: you must be doing it wrong

 @FuzzyL: a motor bike is no fun on the trails and an ebike is, so blow.

 @DDoc: Why in the world would a motorbike be no fun on the trails? Where an ebike is fun, a motocross bike will be, too. And if it is a battery powered motocross bike, why choose the ebike?

 Distance / battery life

 Bragging rights, mostly. That, or to make up for the weight of beer consumed during a mid-ride brewery stop.

 That comment made me wanna buy an e bike lol @SpecSRAM:

 Having ridden the heavy DH bikes of the early 2000s, I can tell you that shaving that much weight (about 10 lbs compared to some models I've seen) will definitely have an impact on the bike's handling on descents where the E component of the bike isn't helping anyway. Would I pay that much for any bike, "E" or not? Nah. But there would be some ride improvement with a significant weight reduction like this.

 @big-red: I like the extra weight, lighter is not better for recreational ebiking imo. 50lbs is fine when you have power to equalize the weight.

 @DDoc: Fair point. Though many said the same thing about those heavy DH bikes of the early 2000s. Same for heavy BMX bikes of the same era. Not saying this is the same, but I do wonder if we'll all look back on the 50+ pound ebikes of the early days the way we look at the Brodie 8Ball on PinkBike's Hot Lap series.

 That whole blue and white scheme looks pretty rad.

 Agreed. They make a foxy like that as well. Looks awesome.

 Why are you booing him, he's right

 So, what you are essentially saying is that an ebike transformed you from a snowflake to a douchebag? Good for you for catching up with the jerks who were yelling at you.

Yeah, I own a cheater bike as well.

 Unless the generated heat is transferred to the dirt or to water, the system is air cooled. Just transfer some heat to the ambient air and you can use that label, right?

 You mean like one with a hole in the seat you can fart into?

 @dthomp325: natural gas!

 That's great

 We have a lot less 'wilderness' than you have in most places. Since we live closer together, our daily travels are shorter, and a lot of us use a bicycle for those. Since we now have permanently stuck traffic, fiscal advantages for bicycles and 45 kph e bikes, those ebikes become a real alternative to a car, even for non-bike enthousiasts.

 I think Euros are just more practical and less purist about biking in general. Bikes are seen as more practical transportation there not just exclusively lifestyle/sport. So my guess is you first saw more ebikes as commuters (because ebikes make rad commuters). And people just kind of got used to the idea, so why not mountain bikes?

 Yes, they are. I'll speak from the point of view of living in Germany.
First of all, the culture here is nothing like North America. On the surface it may seem that way, but it's not.
E-Bikes have gained massive popularity here because (IMO):
1. There is, in comparison to NA, quite a lot of older people here with disposable income. They want to get out, not spend too much and not work too hard. Your impression that Europeans aren't lazy is I guess somewhat true, not all of them are. That being said I've never been to any other place where so many people take the elevator up one floor or take escalators down. Let's put it this way.. here people are better at watching what they eat.
2. Commuting. A lot of those statistics come from city bikes and cargo bikes. Lots of people bike in cities and don't want to sweat between every destination. And a ton of people use a bike for the daily stuff, because driving in the city is a nightmare.
3. Big hills. In the Alps amongst other places, the climbs are awfully long and steep. Often, if you're not in a specific bike friendly location, you also won't have a clue what the trail (if there really ends up being a rideable one) will look like. I've done some climbs over here (1000+m) expecting a great descent, only to be rewarded with 500m or less (distance) of hiking trail followed by 20 minutes on a fire road.
4. Laps. Why pay for a shuttle when you can bang it out yourself? Spare battery or a charge midday and you get more descending in much cheaper than by shuttling.

 @ssteve: most sensible argument for e-bikes I've seen. I hate e-bikes with a passion unrivalled, however, in mountainous places I can understand the desire to be self-sufficient and ride up what you intend to ride down. Lift passes/buses to the resorts are expensive. That being said I would rather get up there on my own steam.

 Oh, and I don't own, nor have I ever owned an E-Bike (have ridden a commuter E-Bike at work, though).

 Are you asking if a battery degrades over time? Yes. Yes it does. All of them. Always.

 Because they train.

 Not to mention you'd need $9,500 CAD to pay the divorce lawyers and another $9,500 CAD for real-estate agent fees to sell your house if you brought that bike home.

 the MSRP for my car when it was new, even adjusted for inflation, is less than that. can't believe someone would spend that on a bike

 says 36 FIT4 right there... I think if the 38 was OEM-spec ready we'd have heard about it besides the rumors by now.

 @Upduro: It says fit4 clearly yes , doesn't mean fox have had to make it official yet , and you can only see a curve next to the 3 , it can easily be A 6/8

I did say "could"

 @BaGearA: www.pinkbike.com/photo/18019917

Got my hopes up...but not yet...

 @bbbswan05: ah shit, okay I admit defeat

 My money is on it being specced with Carbon Level (and new Dune).

 they don't shift well under power.