Depending on how old you are, 2002 might not sound like it was all that long ago. And in the grand scheme of things, it wasn't, but the early 2000s were effectively secondary school for development of the mountain bike in that they were polished turds at best but things were getting better. Kinda. I guess that means that we're all in university now?
Anyway, those were the early days for big-hitting bikes like this 203mm-travel 8-Ball from Canadian brand Brodie, and as its 68-degree head angle underlines, geometry had yet to stray far from dated numbers.
2002 Brodie 8-Ball
Intended use: freeride / downhill
Travel: 203mm
Fork travel: 190mm
Wheel size: 26''
Frame construction: aluminum
Head angle: approx. 68-degrees
Reach: approx. 400mm
Weight: 47.5lb
Hate getting scorpion'd after catching a pedal at speed? Who doesn't, but with a 15.5'' high bottom bracket, the 8-Ball is just the ticket if you struggle with that. However, if you have the bare minimum upper body strength of a life-long cycler like me, ya might struggle with this thing... It's 47.5lb! Eeesh.
Time has a funny way of making some things look silly, doesn't it?
We laugh at those numbers now, but I remember when I saw the 8-Ball for the first time; it was in the glossy pages of some magazine, and 22-year-old Levy knew that he
needed every last one of those 203 millimeters for drops to flat that made zero sense. And for wheelie'ing off loading docks to uphill landings, too. What a dumbass.
No one knew any better at the time and, for the most part, no one is going to know any better when we look back at today a few decades from now. The world is going to be an even more messed up place, I'm sure; Elon Musk will have been ''elected'' as America's Supreme Leader after the robot uprising, and we'll see today's carbon dream bikes as junk that makes us inhale sharply and say things like ''How the hell did we ride those things?'' Or maybe not... I'm not entirely sure about the robot uprising part.
Freedom! But not from kneepads because those cable guides are going to tear you a new one.
Back to our chunky friend, the 8-Ball, where there are a few interesting things to point out, especially in the suspension department. The pocket-sized Fox Vanilla R, a shock that's undersized and overworked on the 8-Ball, is still alive; it's full of oil and has a functioning rebound dial! At the other end, we have one of the most storied downhill forks of all time: Marzocchi's 190mm-travel Shiver. It's funny how these are so revered now; we talk about the Shiver in that ''Oh man, those were the days'' kinda tone that lets us feel special because we were around then. The truth, however, is that the Shiver was severely under-damped, held oil with all the reliability of an air-cooled Beetle, and had a tendency to twist itself up in the crowns.
The single pivot, linkage-activated design delivers 203mm of travel, all of which was controlled by that poor little Fox shock. Remarkably, it's still holding oil and pressure.
What'd the Shiver have going for it? Despite those issues, I vaguely remember that it was one of the few reliable options sixteen years ago. Hell, the BoXXer had 32mm stanchions, the internal hex for the rebound adjuster was plastic, and the axle clamps stripped out if you so much as raised your voice while tightening the lil' suckers.
I was humbled badly when I tried to lift the 47.5lb 8-Ball off the ground.
Despite the 8-Ball's now obvious short-comings, it was a serious rig back in 2002. And like the other fancy bikes of the day, it was also the result of small change after small change after small change. And then a bunch more small changes. Forks and rear suspension got an extra inch every few years, disc brakes and thru-axles were real things, and damping was kinda on its way to getting better. Geometry was apparently lagging behind and was still scary, though.
Is the 8-Ball a terrible bike? Maybe not in 2002 and, depending on what you care about, maybe not even in 2018. But a modern mountain bike of almost any kind is more capable than Brodie's heavy hitter in every way, bar pedaling over three-foot-tall parking barriers. The 8-Ball would win that one.
Over time, smart folks learned that bikes usually corner better when the bottom bracket isn't multiple feet off the ground, that our handlebars don't need to be so close and so skinny, and that moving the fork's axle way out in front of you really lowers the chance of getting tossed out the front door. Bikes got stiffer as materials, design, and standards changed and then changed a bunch more times until we ended up where we are now.
Whether it's axle standards or language or cooking or cars, that's just how this kind of thing happens - incremental and slower than we'd prefer. But it works because, well, look at the bikes we're on today: They're pretty dang light, their reliability makes the early 2000s look like a joke, and modern suspension and geometry has us feeling like heroes. Yeah, I think I'll take all those small changes, thank you very much.
There are sixteen long years between the 8-Ball and my current carbon fiber dream bike that's in for testing, but I suspect that you'd be pretty damn grateful for all the incremental changes between the two if you rode them back-to-back. Unless wheelie dropping loading docks to uphill landings is still your main thing.
Video presented by the Sundial Boutique Hotel in Whistler, BC
Porn! That was somewhat like the Keewee cromo 8, another great steer!
It made me think - why doesn't pinkbike do a series (monthly?) where they do a back to back comparison of an old bike vs. a new bike - but to make it interesting to watch, make it a race against the clock. Have a retired pro ride the new bike down the trail and compare times with one of the fastest up and coming racers riding the old bike down the trail - add in some highlights about the (lack of) performance of the old bike with slo-mo corner and rock garden clips and voila!
Might be a liability for the young racer's career - but would be fun to watch them try and wrangle the old beasts down the hill!
I have an '03 Monster T and an '04 888 squirreled away for when people starting getting nostalgic about huck bikes and I can sell them for all the money.
Mountain bikes, on the other hand, are fairly new in the grand scheme of things. Like @maxyedor says above, give it some time. Also, it doesn't help the classics market that mountain bikes tend to self-destruct when ridden hard.
Mtbs on the other hand have been largely been developed with much of the groundwork already done in other industry's (particularly automotive/motorcycles). It's honestly shocking how long it's took for bikes to have quality geometry. It's equally shocking how we're still messing around with derailleurs hanging off the back end of a bike, routine flat tires, and a disgraceful lack of high quality economic bikes for your average person to afford.
The bike industry is outrageously slow moving, convoluted, and determined to constantly shoot themselves in the foot at their customer base's expense.
Man I miss aspects of the good ole days lol.
Saying this Brodie is a turd compared to a modern bike?
Nah, it was a turd in 2002. Problem is so were most DH bikes then - but not all.
Look at a Yeti DH9 or a Specialized Palmer replica and you'll find reasonable weight, long wheelbase and slack head angles.
Those bikes will be at least 95% as fast as any modern bike.
See the timed comparison Neil Donoghue did on his 15 year old GT iDrive for example.
You absolutely cannot say the same for ANY of these current plastic bikes after only 3-5 years...
I'd rather have this bike in my garage than a carbon bike any day.
In my personal opinion modern forks are harshly over damped.
I like having fresh arms with no aching pains at the end of a day.
I keep reading about how tough it is to get modern suspensions dialed . Almost every bike test same problem.
Why? Forks are over damped.
Annoyingly my 2016 AM 29er is a much more capable bike but I just don't care when dropping into a free ride line ????
www.pinkbike.com/photo/773655
Put the 24" Sun Regal Double wide rear wheel on it for making those wheely drops easier haha
Do miss it sometimes ????????
190 mm sorry my bad.
They were upgraded from 170mm carts.
The forks came with either 170 or 190 mm travel.
I believe I have seen Shivers with 888 carts.
On Shivers and 888s all the oil sits at the bottom of the fork.
The top part of th fork is essentially an air spring.
I own both forks and have rebuilt both. It's very easy .
Want mid stroke platform? Add oil to decrease air chamber and run 15 weight oil.
Twisting a knob on a modern fork is not going to cure an over damped fork. You need to change shim stacks or drill larger ports.
I have a 2017 Suntour Durolux. Heavy compared to fox or rock shock but no CSU creak.
But I don't like the midstroke platform and knobs and tokens won't solve that. Shim stack change is needed.
I like restomodding freeride bikes. My wallet and GF ... not so much.
Since I'm on the topic of 50a rubber....
>>Start Rant>> Front tires seem to be dialed today. Rears still haven't nailed it. I would prefer a straight 50a as a rear tire over the 3C options of today. Decent wet traction without the fast-kill of side knobs. Modern tires in 3C like MaxxTerra have side knobs die too fast as a rear. 60a is just scary in the wet. If you go up to a Dual Compound like the Aggressor, then you got a hard compound. Great summer (rear only) (trail bike only) tire, but no thanks once it's slightly wet. Bring back the straight 50a. /rant
vimeo.com/58966987
youtu.be/2wkfbHFiRjc
Instead, you should turn your frown upside down
Cheers to @mikelevy for a great article and helping us remember the good old times. Thank you Mike