Schwalbe Procore Tire System - Review

Nov 13, 2015
by Paul Aston  


"Nothing stays as it was," is Schwalbe's tagline for the Procore dual-chamber system - their novel tire-within-a-tire anti-pinch-flat system that has created quite a stir among the DH and enduro community. What's the point of a dual-chamber system? For those who missed the introduction 18 months ago, Schwalbe's Procore system consists of a small-diameter tube and tire that is inserted inside of a conventional tubeless tire and pressurized to over 80psi. The insert acts as a secondary impact cushion that allows the user to ride with lower, or at least the optimal, tire pressures for a given course without being concerned with pinch flatting. The insert reportedly increases grip, reduces rolling resistance over rough terrain, protects the rim, and helps to prevent the tire from 'burping,' which is when the tire bead is pushed inboard of the edge of the rim and allows air to escape from a tubeless tire.


The success of Procore in professional competition has been questioned by the downhill community after some dramatic wheel failures were broadcast live to the world by Red Bull's World Cup videographers. Rumors quickly surfaced that the high-pressure inner chamber was causing carbon wheels to explode and that the Procore system was a nightmare to install and service.

Details:
• Intended use: More grip and less punctures
• Diameter: 26", 27.5" or 29"
• Minimum 23mm internal rim width
• Minimum 2.2" tire
• Weight: 440 grams (approx)
• MSRP: $230 USD / €195 (parts available separately)
• Contact: Schwalbe Procore / @schwalbe

To help mute some of that cynicism, it should be pointed out that the exposed and highly visible blue-colored liners gave both the announcers and viewers much to talk about. Had Schwalbe opted to color Procore black, we suspect that the reactions to those few instances would have been on par with the significant number of non-Procore wheels that were destroyed at those same events. We put Procore to task to discover the truth behind the speculation.

Schwalbe Pro-Core Review
Schwalbe's Procore kit (from top left) consists of a pair of tubes and inner tires, a roll of high-pressure rim tape, tubeless sealant, air sleeves, tire installation lubricant, dedicated tire levers, and decals to outfit two wheelsets.


Installation

Installation is fairly simple and in some ways, more so than with a standard tubeless system:

• First, the high-pressure rim tape is applied to the rims and then perforated at the valve hole.
• Next, a small clear patch is applied over the valve hole as an additional seal and also pierced using the valve stem.
• Mount one side of the blue Procore liner (basically, a small treadless tire) making sure that the silver stripe is lined up with the rim's valve hole.
• Then, slip the red AirGuide sleeve over the tube's valve stem and insert the tube into the Procore liner.
• Install the other bead of the liner just like any tire and it will fit loosely between the flanges of the rim, allowing room to mount up the tire.
• Finally, slather all of the beads with Schwalbe's Easy Fit lubricant and mount the tire over the Procore assembly as you would any other, (the Schwalbe tire levers, which clip on to the rim help hold everything in place). Add the tire sealant just before closing the final bead.
• Inflate the liner first between 60-80psi using the dual-position valve stem and it will automatically seat the tubeless tire’s beads with resounding "pops."
• Next, switch the dual-position valve stem to the "tire" position and inflate the tire to your race pressure (12 to 25 psi)..
• Screw the dual-position stem down to the locked position, close the Presta valve, and you are done.

Schwalbe Pro-Core Review
High pressure rim tape is supplied to handle the 6-bar pressure (87psi) recommended for the Procore insert.


The first time I mounted the Schwalbe system, I watched the video and everything went smoothly (except making the mistake of fitting the Procore bits to a wheel with the wrong free-hub driver). After remounting the system to a different wheel, I must have accidentally damaged the seal where the valve stem enters the rim. It took a while to realize where the air was escaping, but replacing the clear patch solved this (there are no spares included, so I used a normal glue-less inner tube patch in this instance). A second time, I fitted a new tire without using the 'Easy Fit' fluid and had issues with the bead not seating correctly regardless of which chambers I inflated first. Lesson learned? "Follow the directions and you should have no issues."

So, how is it easier in some ways than a standard tubeless, you ask? Well, if you want to switch out a tire, just deflate both chambers and switch the tire. You can get pretty aggressive with tire levers if needs be, as there is no chance of damaging the tube when doing so. When you inflate the Procore, it locks the tire into place, so there is zero faff trying to get the tire seated and sealed.

Schwalbe Pro-Core Review
The clear patch at the rim's valve hole is a security measure to ensure proper sealing. I successfully replaced mine with a glue-less patch;
Schwalbe Pro-Core Review
The red AirGuide is key to allowing air to flow into the outer chamber, it must be lined-up with the silver line of the Procore liner.


Durability

Of course, the first thing I did when somebody told me that it would be virtually impossible to pinch-flat or burp a Procore protected tire, was to try to pinch-flat and burp it. The first test was to put 6bar/87psi into the Procore and 0.3bar/5psi in the outer chamber; pedal as fast as I could towards a 20cm tall curbstone, then sit down and hit it, full speed. I can report no punctures or dings to the rim, and not even the sound of a metal to concrete connection. Second, was to perform a few cutties and square off a few corners. (The previous curbstones worked out well as a berm.) I was pleasantly surprised by my parking lot trial. There was seemingly no way of getting the tire to lose any pressure. Even if you release all the pressure from the outer chamber and try to dislodge the bead with your hands - you can't, it's locked in there solid by the Procore liner. Later, on the trail, I never managed to puncture the tire during a normal ride.

Schwalbe Pro-Core Review
Remember to screw the dual-position stem to the closed position before heading out as it will leak down eventually.


Issues

I confess to two flats that were directly related to my unwillingness to follow directions: I punctured the inner chamber once after snapping a spoke, which then pierced the rim tape and the tube, and resulted in complete air loss. In the Procore's defense, I did not use the supplied high-pressure rim tape which could have prevented that. Leaving the valve core unscrewed in the "tire" position after checking pressures will cause it to lose pressure. I did that more than once. I can attest that Schwalbe are correct in saying the minimum rim width is 23mm. I tried to fit the system to a Mavic Crossmax rim with a 19mm internal width, which was indeed nearly impossible and I managed to damage the Procore tube in the process. Lesson learned: "Follow the directions."

After seeing Procore liners wrapped around swingarms at World Cup DH races, rumors circulated that the pressure that the Procore liner exerted upon the rim could cause certain wheels to fail after a few hits. I asked Schwalbe's Michael Kull about that:

" In Lourdes, the wheel of Neko [Mulally] exploded where we saw Andrew's [Neethling] wheel exploding just a few minutes earlier, down to a gnarly rock in a gully. Taking the wrong line can still mean your whole wheel can fail. In Fort William, there was impact damage to Harry Heath's (Norco Factory Racing) rim, but it was missed, and it lasted through training. Once the team was at the start (for Harry’s finals run), they discovered that the tire had lost air and was leaking due to rim damage. They pumped it up again, but Harry was losing air on the track and hit a rock very hard just before the drop and another one after, so his rear wheel collapsed while having, basically a flat tire. We`re in close contact with Norco Factory Racing and their wheel sponsor. Since then, they have solved all issues. They have told us they would not race without Procore in the future."


Riding Procore

Riding with Procore seemed to be a mix between, "this is the best MTB product ever!" and, "hmm, it seems OK." Generally, the benefits of running low pressure in the outer chamber were most noticeable as trails got rougher, more technical and slower. Super technical rock in Chamonix was incredible, the rolling speed and increased small bump compliance was huge. I felt invincible, pushing harder and faster, and gaining more and more confidence. Climbing with low pressures was also great - a massive improvement in traction, as it was when braking, especially in rough sections. You'll still need to run higher pressures for fast smooth, bike park riding. Running 13psi there left me with a feeling of instability and rolling tires. In the bike park, I started to wonder if I needed the Procore.

If you want to up reliability for racing or in general, the Procore could be for you. I don't understand why some Schwalbe supported racers haven't been using the system after suffering punctures during races. Talking to various teams, this is usually down to the weight disadvantage, but there's is nothing slower than getting a puncture. OK, it might not stop Aaron Gwin, but Josh Carlson was looking like a winner at the EWS in Whistler before he punctured at the top of the last stage. I was using the system at the French EWS and got a front cut in the tire near the beginning of the most downhill predominated stage, I lost all the pressure from the outer chamber, but the Procore kept the tire on and I managed to ride it out to the finish, somehow clocking my second fastest stage of the weekend.

And, the weight? Adding 200 grams to the outside of your wheel is going to make a big difference when it comes to accelerating, and for long days on the pedals. But, consider the benefits of greater gyroscopic stability and rollover through bumps. I generally prefer a heavier wheelset, as my riding is more biased towards downhills. Plus, the added rim protection and puncture resistance means I can get by using a lighter wheelset and tire casing. That said, I generally preferred the feel of the low-pressure tires with a heavier, slower-rebounding casing, as that combination molded better and more predictably to the terrain. I settled around 18psi for the front and 22psi for the rear tire to give a good compromise for most conditions, with 70psi in the Procore.

Positives:
• Improved puncture resistance
• More grip, and better rolling speed over bumps
• Increased rim protection
Negatives:
• Expensive
• Increased rolling mass
• Another thing to worry about


Pinkbike's Take:
bigquotesProcore's protection allows a rider to choose from a larger combination of tires and rims, and to optimize tire pressure for any track situation without regard for pinch flatting. If you want more reliability and grip and you don't mind the additional labor and expense, it's great. Pump them up for dry park laps one day and then find yourself riding low speed tech the next, at half your previous pressures while your mates are struggling for traction. - Paul Aston



MENTIONS: @schwalbe




273 Comments

  • + 242
 I really don't understand the reviewer's choices on setup to completely ignore the instructions without any reasoning. It said minimum internal rim width, so I tried narrower rims and that didn't work. It said to use the lube and I didn't and that didn't work. It said to use the high pressure rim strip and I didn't and that didn't work. I filled my gas engine with diesel and that didn't work. I mounted the procore on my subaru and that didn't work either. Seems like a horses for courses type of thing, more for the technical dh tracks where a puncture ruins all your hard offseason work.
  • + 29
 Ya, that was a little strange. Way too many words to describe how it doesn't work when ignoring simple instructions.
I like the concept of the Procore...but trails are too buff around here to need it...and I don't race...so I'ma save my cash for shuttle/trail building fuel...
  • + 181
 I thought this info was useful. As a reviewer, he is trying to push the product to its limit to find any faults it may have. Paul has basically told us that Procore is so reliable, that the only way he got it to fail was by blatantly using it in ways it is not intended to be used.
  • + 53
 I think it's valuable, people want to know the limits of the system and he found them and reported it. Sometimes the directions are just overly conservative. Most bike manuals will recommend never to remove the legally-required stock reflectors, or the dork disc behind the cassette, but how many of you followed those directions? I mean if you've ever gone ghetto tubeless, you certainly ignored any directions there haha
  • + 45
 @tgreid: "I filled gas engine with diesel and it didn't work" said with straight face in relation to a bike review. Man I laughed, that is the best description for 90% of reviews done by private reviewers, wankers like me, keeping blogs and sht. You made my day Big Grin
  • + 4
 It's absolutely nothing like removing wheel reflectors. And if you ride your bike on the street guess what, you really shouldn't remove them. It is a little like installing most of what came in the box and then having problems because you think you know more than the manufacturer of the component. I would have never skipped with rim strip, it seems fairly obvious to me why they have it. But that's just me. I will say this : What do I think about ProCore? Pretty much exactly what this reviewer found. So no harm, no foul. It appears to be a good product. It looks like it works, and works well, but really is only needed for riding really rocky terrain where the advantage of super low psi outweighs the extra weight it adds.
  • + 5
 I appreciate the trials part. Every manufacturer includes instructions that are designed to ensure that their product functions properly. Often some of the steps are helpful but not necessary. Brake bleeding is a great example. There are faster ways to bleed than most instructions if you know what you are doing but the instructions are the best way to make sure you get a proper bleed. It's nice to read a review where I can learn whether to be careful with the instructions or throw them out.
  • + 3
 Spot on!
  • - 2
 Spot on!
  • - 2
 Oops double post
  • + 4
 most tires manufactures say on the side to run like 40 to 60 psi and most people not even 30 run, so what's the problem?
would be worst if was you loosing money instead of him that was free
  • + 6
 He just knows what most of us will do if we buy them. This was a great article and answered some questions I had. I've got some dents in my rear wheel that would sure appreciate this system. Now for someone to come up with a "ghetto" version...
  • + 0
 bout time
  • + 1
 Knowing whether the system works with different rim tape is a bonus. We've all been there, fettling away the evening before a ride and noticed a spoke could do with replacing. Rim tape off, spoke replaced. Job done. Only problem is you've only got some regular tubeless tape on the shed. It's good to know that it works, albeit reliability is better with the high pressure tape
  • + 36
 All of the issues I mentioned came from re-installing the Procore when changing tires or wheels, not deliberately ignoring instructions.

Here's one example: I used the same tires for a few weeks, then decided to change a front tire at the van at the bottom of a trail. I did a quick change then couldn't work out why it wouldn't seat properly. After trying different pressures in both chambers with no luck, only then did I remember the 'Easy Fit,' - which I didn't have with me. In this case some soapy water did the trick.

I thought these might be some useful anecdotes for future Procore users.
  • + 7
 @ryan83 Its possible and I have done it. No flats in over a year.. coming from roughly 5 flats per dh day with standard tubes. I did drill an extra hole in my rims (trial on cheap rims first) but have no regrets doing this to my I9's now that I know how well it works. (I built my i9's and dont have a warrantee that could be voided) The reviewers claims on durability are valid. It works so well in fact that I have moved to lighter rims (I9 trail) and lighter tires (Maxxis EXO) without issues.

Link to pics of initial setup.

www.pinkbike.com/u/joemo5/album/Moneycore
  • + 2
 Ohh yeah: the maxxis "TR" bead fixes that whole easy fit junk. Just a little stan's sealant and blow it right up.
  • + 1
 @ryan83 I done similar with a 26 road tubular, just let pressure down in it to adjust tyre pressure.. Got to know what pressure to put in tyre before blowing up the tub..
  • + 2
 What brand and model tubular did you use?
  • - 8
flag wolf-amongst-lambs (Nov 13, 2015 at 19:10) (Below Threshold)
 Sweet jeebus. How is this different from a heavy ass inner tube
  • + 2
 Have to say in defense of the reviewer that it wasn't like putting diesel in a car that takes unleaded, but more like putting regular gas into a car that recommends premium. Accidental or ignorance, it outlined the system's limitations. How many of us have improvised a fix to be able to get a ride in? I know I have. Nothing worse than driving 30 minutes to get to a trail head only to turn around and go home. If it had worked out instead of failing it would have been a non-issue.
  • + 5
 I wonder if they have birds on the moon...
  • + 1
 30$ for the tubes and rim tape and tire levers, and 200$ for the schwalbe rim stickers. what a bargain
  • + 1
 @joemo5 was a couple of old ones I got from a roadie friend but theres a lot of 26 to buy new but are over 300g weight. dont know what size for 27.5.
  • - 1
 @schwalbe - how much does the procore inner piece actually expand? I understand the logic behind putting a tube into the blue piece but wouldn't you develop a version of the system where the inner bit is a single object that expands very little under pressure, thus putting less stress on a rim? I must also say from my very limited experience that wide rim/tubeless allowing for lower pressure theory never worked for me and has bitten me several times, causing pinch uncturing of sidewalls of SS EVo tyres.
  • + 5
 Over 400grams of rotational weight added? No thanks, i would rather stick to stans along with a tube in my backpack and save the money for a few nice meals.
  • - 3
 Orientalchow - why would you use procore on the front?
  • + 2
 I nip the front more than the rear landing in rock gardens... also its the front that I burp more and pulled trye off when tried normal tubeless on the downhill bike. I am running 30mm internal rims as like the stability of them...
  • + 1
 if you already have tubeless rims why not just run tubeless?
  • + 1
 Because they dont work great downhilling, you end up missing most of the uplifts fixing blowouts... burping- losing pressure, nipping sidewall of dualply tyres and pulling trye of rim.. Thats why I tried a ghetto procore with old road tubulars, they did help alot keep trye on rim and stopped burping but sharp welsh slate for example still cut through tyre and flatted. Its easier to run with dh tubes, quicker easier to fix and no mess. I dont get many uplift days in the year as theres none at home so missing lifts isn't an option.
  • - 2
 Bat-fastard. I can only tell you that if you flat front more often than rear then something is wrong. At least when you have 2-ply tyres that is extremely unlikely. I would not prioritize any marginal increase in grip or any other factor above sidewall stability and puncture resistance because puncturing front is one of sketchiest mechanicals a man can get. Once you get pressure dialled so that tyre is stable and handles well in corners without any rolling then you already have a little chance to puncture. It is just hard for me to believe that you have right pressure for sake of handling and you burp/roll the front. That for me would be a direct signal to up the pressure. Weight distribution of most dh bikes sits round 70%-30% which clearly shows that most riders who use 0.1-0.3bar difference front to rear put more pressure the the front per load on each wheel, that considering a good rider who is not hanging off the back further decreasing percentual load on front tyre. Furthermore, front suspension acts quite rearward decreasing the compression of the tyre in relation to mostly upward, backward movement of the rear wheel at the bottom out. Hence chance of puncture should be very low. I personally use lightweight tube on front and I never pinch punctured a 2ply front tyre. I would not put tubeless there because it makes unnecessary mess. I run 1.6 front and 1.8 rear, on 25mm inner width rims, on trail bike in home trails. I tried riding with lower pressures on 27 inner and I got 2 rear pinch punctures right away. If I take 1-plies to the big mountains or park I up the pressure by 0.2 for stability and puncture resistance. For 2plies I keep 1.6 and 1.8 since sidewalls are more stable. Any consecutive burping of the rear makes me up the pressure and makes me very proud to be able to generate such G-Force and stay on the track. I would also never run tubless on a DH bike since chance of puncturing is higher and I hate to deal with the white mess and since gravity helps me, I see nor problem with running 300g tube
  • + 3
 Do you downhill waki on a full downhill bike in the Alps and other UK bike parks that are full of rock? Maybe its my style landing front wheel first or maybe my rear suspension also has a lot of rearwrd travel with a high idler that rear wheel doesn't hangup either. I could go and mark the rocks I'm doing it off, better line choice avoids it again. Its not often it happens but its a sharp pointy fecker that done it just landing and dinging one side of rim...
  • - 3
 I did my share in Poland and in Slovakia and no I never went for a 2 week trip to Alps. It just seems unlikely and I'd say, the worse the rider the lessr the chance of puncturing the front so I definitely do not question your riding skill. I would also put suspension system out of equation. Weight distribution alone is telling the story since in order to put same tyre compression from each hit on both wheels you'd have to go 1.4 front to 2.0 rear. At 1.4 any idiot would start rolling a front tyre off on first 90 degree berm. I spent 4 years on a rigid HT riding fireroads composed of sharp fist sized rocks and barely remember any front puncture, and countless rear ones. I used to put 2.0 in worthless 1.95 Kendas on Alexrims DM18s hahaha Big Grin
  • + 3
 Actually thinking back I got 2 punctures this year both on front of dh bike. One at antur stiniog where a rock sliced centre of tyre and nicked my dh tube, and anotther in morzine on pleney going into a rocky corner just before wooden gap jump. I would of been heavy on the brakes with front loaded up on last one. I run same pressure front and rear, but like I sayy landing front wheel and under braking the front is loaded up more..
  • - 3
 Mhm, isn't it the case of the dreadful serial bad luck? I rode once a week this year, 3 lift days and I think I topped my number of punctures per year record from good, old and rigid times. Sadly for this circumstance: at least 5 tubeless failures of Schwalbe tyres, including uphill failure. However the uphill puncture (knob tore off on rock edge) put my tyre at ca 1.3 bar and it stayed the for the rest of the climb. Grip on wettest roots was biblical. That showed me how fricking incredible procore could be. I still have a Schwalbe Evo Snake Skin trauma though. I will stay with Minions DHF EXO even for long rides.
  • + 2
 Think I had about 20 uplift days Smile only 2 punctures with dualply and dh tubes.. small bike at home out most weeks and no punctures, exo tyres with normal tubes, converted to dean n easy tubeless few months ago, no burping pulling tyres off like last time I tried tubeless.
  • + 1
 It is like bottom out protection for you tyre. The high pressure liner acts as bumped to stop the tyre and rim slamming together. It also wedges the tyre onto the rim. J could run really high pressures in a standard setup instead to get the puncture resistance, but then u don't get any of the benefits of running low pressure which is the whole point . Heavy tubes pinch like any other when you slam them into the rim hard
  • + 1
 raced for 2 full season's Dh, national and regional and the only flat i had was on the back and because the tire was old
a set of mavic deemax ultimate plus schwalbe muddy marys/magic and minion dhr2
rode bothe the super gravity up front and dhe dh casing and on the back always dh casing, (not tubeless tires)

so something is wrong, probably the pressure , tires or rims
  • + 1
 Considering the number of us out here running non-tubeless tyres, on non-tubeless rims, with just some tape, a valve and some stans with no problems at all, I think it is valid to test how sensitive it is to correct set up. For example my rims are a couple of mm to narrow, I'd have thought this wasn't a problem, now I am reconsidering.
  • + 3
 Lel
  • + 4
 @Aarrce looks like they don't come in 27.5, not worth it.....
  • - 1
 650 x23 is not 650B ( which is junior size ) still not worth it. ProCore all the way!!!!
  • + 52
 TITs. Tubes In Tubes technology.
  • + 39
 Pretty hard core stuff.
  • - 9
flag t-turi-mullett (Nov 13, 2015 at 9:51) (Below Threshold)
 Nobody acknowledged your pun :/
  • + 35
 C'mon, mate! No need to deflate a guy like that.
  • + 31
 Or roll right over his attempt. Even if it did fall flat a little bit...
  • - 4
flag bishopsmike (Nov 13, 2015 at 14:36) (Below Threshold)
 ShwI'll be trying these out next spring.
  • + 5
 You put too much pressure on him give the man a break
  • + 2
 i hope they took the necessary pro-cautions to make sure this product works
  • + 2
 Hey man, sorry if that sounded a bit agressive. Just came off a high pressure day at work. Wink
  • + 30
 I'm amazed that you guys are trying to put a positive spin on 400 additional grams of rotational weight. That's nearly a pound! Are heavy wheels going to be the next big trendy thing? 27.5+ 1lb
  • + 1
 in a weight weenie world this has my head spinning and don't say it does not mater in DH. Just look at how the industry is trying to make a 31lb full on DH for the pros to ride, hell it is down to 35 lbs now so YA it is a deal breaker
  • + 12
 Whats the weight difference between a 2 ply DH casing and and single ply AM tire of the same size? If it approaches 400 grams, it could make sense
  • - 8
flag bat-fastard (Nov 13, 2015 at 10:46) (Below Threshold)
 tubeless doesnt work for DH, just look at the amount of flats at fortwilliam this year, top 3 seeded girls flatted if I remember right. If you take out a DH tube and replace with this then theres a bit of weight saving, but the dean n easy version is only 120g per wheel..
  • + 4
 I live in Colorado, tons of rocks out here. Ran tubeless in my DH bike all season. Zero issues. I hit double blacks as well as the flow runs
  • + 10
 Hey @bat-fastard , our system might weight a bit more, but you can service it easily by disassembling. You can`t do this with a tubular. We have the philosophy that you should be able to fit the system without any modifications on the rim. Drilling your valve hole from 6.5 to 10mm without any doubt weakens your rim. Procore can easily installed on any rim from 23mm-40mm internal width without any modification. Please also note, that the glue is not in the weight calculation of Dean Easy.
  • - 5
flag bat-fastard (Nov 13, 2015 at 11:39) (Below Threshold)
 Soo sorry but your procore isn't available for me to buy and fit myself in the UK.. as before a dealer has to do it... a couple of grams of glue doesn't make much difference and is likely offset but the weight of your lube you have to use to seat the trye. Roadies have been fixing tubulars as years, its not rocket science. And as for weakening rim its actually 10mm from 8.5mm if its a schrader valve hole.. Plus when the valve is glued in place it will make it stronger than it was with a 8.5mm hole as its now got a 10mm tube set in place from one side of rim to other.
  • + 1
 comparing a mountain bike DH tyre to a tubular is pure window dressing and industry cxrap
  • - 2
 @WestwardHo If it's faster? Which in the case of 650b+, it most definitely is. Then yes.
  • + 3
 @WestwardHo

As for a positive spin on the added weight, of course acceleration will be reduced, but try riding through a wet rock garden with a heavy DH tire/wheelset, and then a lightweight XC tire/wheelset. What will be safer and more comfortable?
  • + 5
 @paulaston
I actually agree with you on that. Personally, I prefer a heavier wheel when descending (to a point). However, if you want to add weight to your wheels there are a lot cheaper ways to do it than procore. In fact, if you want to add weight to your wheels you can save yourself quite a bit of money when buying a wheelset Wink Anyway, I'm just seeing the news about Paris so I'm going to stop debating the merits of procore because this is really bumming me out. Have a good one.
  • + 1
 I'm pretty sure the ProCore system weighs the same if not less than tubes. www.sicklines.com/weights/innertubes
  • + 0
 Agree, mtb's are heavy enough to pedal,even tubeless light wheels that have a low rotational mass when ridden 50k plus aint easy- glad to go tubeless,saved a pound off my 650b's,never putting weight back on!!!!! Do however expect we will all be riding some protective system in the future..just not quite yet for me. Specifically built wheels perchance?! Ride hard regardless!!
  • + 2
 lets talk about the resistance inside caused by the interface, that was a hot topic 10 years ago when someone had a similar idea. I think this system will slow down the ride.
  • + 25
 About that weight penalty of Procore system... 
Paradoxically, Procore can save hundreds [sic!] of grams compared to the traditional system with tubes. I can prove it with my own experience. So far I used Schwalbe Hans Dampf Super Gravity tires with Ritchey Lightweight tubes that I punctured on more than one occasion [to say the least]. After switching to the Procore I was able to change tires on SnakeSkin, which are exactly 500g lighter [per set].

So let's do the math:

Traditional System [tubes]:
Schwalbe Hans Dampf Super Gravity 2.35" tire - 2 x 1015g
Ritchey Lightweight tube 26" 2.1/2.3 - 2 x 205g
_____________
Total: 2440g


Procore System:
Schwalbe Hans Dampf SnakeSkin 2.35" tire - 2 x 765g
Procore inner tire- 2 x 116g
Procore tube - 2 x 92g
Procore airguide - 2 x 4g
Doc Blue - 2 x 60g/ml
_____________
Total: 2074g

Sure, somebody will say he can go even lighter with just a sealant. Maybe but try to run light tires with sealant, 14 PSI and not dent your rims. Close to impossible, I'd say.

Conclusion: Procore can save you ~366g [or more] compared to the traditional tube system with increased puncture protection, better traction and lower rolling resistance due to the use of thinner and lighter tires.
  • + 5
 I cannot agree to this. Since I run tubeless tires setup I agree that I have less punctures (that's for sure). But the disadvantage of tubeless tires setup is that when you have a whole in the tire tread then it is difficult to repair. In the past when we used tubes then we exchanged the tire when there was no profile left. Today with tubeless tires setup we replace it when there are too many wholes in the tire tread. This problem is not resolved by Procore. Therefore there is still a reason to run heavy tires with multiple plys. I think this is also the reason why Maxxis releases the double down technology.
And do not even ride a lot of high alpine trails!
  • + 2
 Try riding in the sharp welsh slate like antur stinog... Dual Ply DH tyres with extra safe tubes, cut straight through tread and nicked tube to a slow puncture... got me down the run quick change and only missed one uplift... Depends where you ride, no rocks on our trails back home so can get away with a light setup..
  • + 3
 This is the proper way to look at the numbers @WestwardHo. Thanks bikebert. good stuff.
  • + 3
 I imagine that running lower pressures will reduce the chance of tire cuts from sharp objects, due the increased suppleness/deformation of the tire - pushing a knife in to a tire with 30psi will pierce faster than if it has 15psi?

This problem won't be resolved by Procore, but cut reduce the risks of cuts.
  • + 8
 @bikebert@ccolagio: Yeah, of course there are weight savings in that scenario! As others have said, Procore doesn't solve the issue of sidewall cuts, tire deformation and all the other reasons people run dual ply tires. So let's do an alternate, and more realistic scenario comparing like for like:

1. Schwalbe Hans Dampf Super Gravity 2.35" tire - 2 x 1015g
Stan's website estimate of tape/sealant/valve weight: @ 60g/ wheel
Total: 2150g

2. Schwalbe Hans Dampf Super Gravity 2.35" tire - 2 x 1015g
Procore inner tire- 2 x 116g
Procore tube - 2 x 92g
Procore airguide - 2 x 4g
Doc Blue - 2 x 60g/ml
Total: 2574g

So a realistic comparison (in my opinion) shows Procore at >400g heavier. AND it's unsprung, rotational weight. No thanks
  • + 4
 weight is going to be way higher than 60 grams per wheel for tubeless.
  • + 2
 I am currently running super gravity tire with light tubes so I will be trying out the procore system so I can lose those ~366g. Plus I'll be getting even more grip. Just how Schwalbe comes out with a Magic Mary snakeskin in vertstar soon as that is the only thing I'll be giving up at the front!
  • + 19
 I have ridden the procore this season on my DH rig.
At first i said ok lets try it, it is expensive as hell but if i wont snake bite tube whole year it could be game changer, so i bought it as an early adopter. It need to be mentioned that i am able to snake bite tire six times a day in a bikepark. I can also burp the tubeless setup in almost every turn, no matter tire width. And was also able to to slip both tyres from rims once. It is possible that i cannot ride Smile

My humble review:
1./ you will decrease tire "suspension" effect by reducing overall "travel" of the tire
2./ you could notice better handling when flat cornering, better handling on small bumbs, roots and rockfaces, loose stuff
3./ you will probably not notice higher weight (when compared to tubeless setup) - when riding downhill!
4./ system is extremely finicky, you have to control pressure before every day of riding (inner chamber tubes need to be reinflated) and as any tubeless setup outer chamber could loose some air trough some microscopic holes in the tyre. Even when using sealant. I blew apart one inner tire at a parking lot just about an 40psi dont ask me how could it happenSmile so the system is one thing to think about and you have to check it before every ride to have constant pressures.
5./ it is not uncommon to snake bite inner tube - it is not impossible!!! :/ but when you snake bite, you cold finish your Run (so snake bite wont ruin your ride or race run)
6./ you could repair inner tyre, but as you use high pressure, patch could fail. New inner tube is extremely!!! pricey!!!!
7./ changing tube or changing tyre is dirty job as with any tubeless setup with sealant, with procore it is even greater pain in the assSmile ))
8./ sealant could really mess with tiny holes in dual chamber valve, so by the time it is extremely difficult to maintain pressures
9./ i have managed to slip off the front tyre from the rim (30mm inner width/standard pressures) even with procore installed which caused me nasty crash. It was dissapointing to hear classic psssssssssssss sound when i was lying in the rock garden next to my front tyre

So this product is for nothing, now i run tubes on my DH bike.
And i ride without worying about pressures and tyre burping, and sealant dirty jobs.

My take: it coud have some benefits if you are sponsored by schwalbe (to have it for free) if you have your own personal mechanic, then it could save your race run. For normal (mortal) people will be more benefitial to buy decent set of tyres and some steaks & beers Smile
  • + 1
 Thanks for that, you can ride better then me lol, the odd snakebite is my only problem atm. DH tyres and tubes it is for me on DH bike then..
  • + 5
 Thank you Wert1 for an actual product review, rather than what reads like another product presentation. Being 225 lbs, Procore might help keep tubeless tires on the rim. But now I'll be waiting for more feedback before I spend that much money to be hopeful.
  • + 6
 I don't do any DH but in my case after several months of all mountain riding, the system still works flawlessly: rim is covered when things go wild, I get insane traction... oh and no flat of course.

I did not find the inner tyre to loose pressure either and I find installation to be dead easy to be honest.

Just my 2 cents...
  • + 4
 I raced procore for the latter half of this season and had zero issues. It's awesome, I was running low 20s without worrying about burping or smashing the rim into rocks, it's great.
  • + 11
 Have you checked the spoke tension with the system inflated and compared it to the tension of the bare wheel and a regular tubeless setup? My guess is the high pressure in the core chamber will cause quite a decrease in spoke tension which could lead to early fatigue and failure of spokes. Especially considered the fact that the rim will have to deal with a lot more hits as you essentially reduce the tires 'travel' by the height of the inner chamber. Ok, a hit 'cushioned' by a 6 bar chamber doesn't really compare to one directly on the rim. But it will occur a lot more often.
  • + 12
 Hey @martn , the spoke tension is always a bit decreased compared to what it`s been when the wheel is new. We`ve intensively tested the system on our internal lab tests with different wheels, with many test rider since 2 years and our own engineers. I`ve personally been riding Procore since 3 years. I`ve been riding 2 years with one single wheelset on my Enduro bike, an DT Swiss EX1501 and even after 2 years I didn`t had any dents in the rim or significant disbalanced spoke tension. We`ve also been running Stans, Syntace, Alexrims, Novatec, Easton, Sram and Mavic in our R&D team and even after many month of usage we did not yet had any problem with the wheels, either on the bikes or the multi thousand km on our lab tests.
  • + 3
 No question, high pressures WILL reduce spoke tension.

@schwalbe "Yes spoke tension is always decreased compared to what it was when new", that wasn't what he was alluding to.
  • + 10
 Pretty sure they answered the question there... Not sure why everyone is so quick to hate on Pro Core. If it's something that reduces pinch flats, then that's an awesome thing. I still think tyres are the weakest point on modern bikes. It's amazing that punctures are even still a problem at this point in time.
  • + 5
 There's no hate, don't worry. I'm just a bit sceptical. Since I haven't had any issues with pinch flats after converting to tubeless, for me the weakest point of modern bikes is durability. I tend to wear through bearings and tires quicker than brake pads nowadays. And I've had problems with spoke failures before. Likely due to rims being to soft for the load I put them through. I'm not talking about weightweenie stuff. Spoke tension was always even and high enough, checked by an experienced professional wheelbuilder. The spokes all seemed to break due to fatigue from too many full load cycles. I can regularly hear the spokes in my rear wheel unloading during aggressive maneuvers. Putting higher pressure on the rim and decreasing spoke tension doesn't seem like a good idea from that perspective.

I'm quite open for new ideas and innovation but as soon as there's a chance that durability could be compromised, at least in theory, I tend to get a bit alarmed. Sometimes I get proven wrong and that's fine. And sometimes the benefit of a new idea is worth a compromise in durability (dropper posts come to mind).

@schwalbe so you didn't have any failures or problems with rims or spokes during your testing? I've had the chance to ride a bike with Procore installed for one day and when I got it the spoke tension on the Hope Hoops wheelset was quite low.
  • + 2
 I didn't specifically mean you hating on Pro Core, there just seems to be a lot of negativity here. I've had a lot of trouble getting tubeless systems to work, they can be pretty fiddly unless you have the perfect rim/tyre combo. If Pro Core makes that easier and fitting of tubeless tyres slightly more universal and hassle free, I'm all for it.
  • + 15
 do they do 29.5+????
  • + 1
 ie what's the widest rim it will work with?
  • + 4
 Hey @woddem 40mm internal width is the max, so you can even use it on the 27+ bikes.
  • + 0
 40mm internal according to them...
  • + 5
 I have this system, and I can say, it does work. Not only that, but it makes your tire ramp up in its travel. With the procore installed, the air volume for the tire itself is significantly reduced, so the tire ramps up in its travel, so the initial feel is softer, which give you better small bump compliance and traction, but it quickly firms up and becomes stable in harder corners and on big hits. It changes the way the tire reacts to the terrain, but doesn't wallow out like running say, 20 psi in a 2.35 high volume tire, as 20 psi in the same tire with the procore reacts much differently. I use it for racing only, when flatting is not ideal of course. It is more than just flat prevention, it has function beyond that.
  • + 4
 Maybe it makes sense for downhill but for me and how I ride regular tubeless seems better. I don't really plow through the boulder fields but I do carve hard on the flowy stuff. I find if I get much below 28 pis I get too much tire roll while really carving hard. Procor doesn't help with the tire roll, and at 28 psi on my trail bike I am not really railing the rock gardens hard enough to dent my rims anyway. Add that to the weight penalty and I just don't get it.
  • + 2
 Tire roll/folding is my concern as well. They don't even mention if it helps at all in the review.
  • + 7
 Cool. Thanks PA for the Pinkbike review I've been looking for! Now if Schwalbe can start stocking shops faster
  • + 4
 If you are riding a fully rigid bike, is the pro-core more plush / comfortable than a wide-rim-large-tire set up?
I have seen this exact system at a bike show in Europe 15 years ago... I think from an Italian company.
  • + 3
 I've been using the dean and easy kit for few months. Once you tape rim and glue in valve its soo simple. its like fitting a normal tyre n tube. Blow up the tube/tub to 120psi and tyre seats itself blow up tyre to 20psi and brapppp... got mine from next day tyres, only drawback is only up to 23mm wide rims but a wider one in comming... www.deaneasy.it/en
  • + 1
 Where did you buy it. this page has been up and down for the past 2 years. I was wondering if the product would ever hit the market. I want to get this in Canada.
  • + 3
 Can I ask for a partial review? My dream is to be able to run 20psi and not burp or have my tires fold over in heavy cornering
  • + 1
 got mine here nextdaytyres.co.uk/search.aspx/DeanEasy. Only made one mistake as impatient... didn't use enough glue.. Drill rim to 10mm, fill inside rim 1/2" either side with glue, let it set 24hrs, drill to 9mm.. This will give a solid seal. Tape rim and push tape into valve hole as normal. Now glue in valve over tape and LET SET for 24 hrs.. Fit tub and tyre with some sealant, blow up tub to 40psi, go round by hand and pull tyre onto seat. blow up tub to 120psi and then blow up tyre to 40psi. I then let tub down and shook sealant inside tyre to make sure no leaks. Tub back up120psi and tyre to 20psi. no burps or anything, its just worked as per they said on a trail bike with a maxxis exo tyre. In past I went tubeless but have pulled tyre off rims at low pressure jumping etc.. Its just worked for me no fuss about changing tyres either as its basically only a small tube inside a tyre..
  • + 2
 and then change tyres regularly....wow I am done
  • + 0
 On the plus side if you flat a normal presta tube will get you home too.. just take out tub and fit tube say if you slash sidewall.. Its as easy to change tyre as with a normal tube. just add sealant.. The valve is only glued in place once and a presta valve slides through it for the tub or a tube..
  • + 1
 150 GPB is more expensive than $hwable procore......
  • + 0
 the procore is a bit more expensive here at £160 ish but its not in stock and you have to pay a dealer to fit it in uk. The procore is almost twice the weight of the dean n easy too..
  • + 2
 I didn't realize the procore uses a tube inside the inner tire. Could you dump that and try it tubeless in the inner as well to save some grams? Or maybe the nextgen dean kit will use a copy of procores valve so you don't have to drill your rims?
  • + 0
 Now its fitted and glued I think its better than the turning valve as I would say it will give more problems like he had above. Also the sealing patch for the rim tape. With the drilled and glued option its a done thing well if you let it set properly fist. The turning valve wont let the inner be tubeless as theres a hole in it to let the air run round the tube and out into the tyre. I think the dean n easy is spot on, I'm just waiting on them making a wider one for upto 30mm inner rims. If you only using 21mm wide the procore wont work for you but then dean n easy will. I'm running it on 23mm inner width, wouldn't want to try on wider..
  • + 3
 I'd rather spend the ~25% more and buy the better engineered Schwalbe product that I don't have to drill into my rims to use. That's just me.
  • - 2
 I'm a design engineer and I dont think the schwalbe is a better design. Maybe why I'm not bothered about drilling valve out and machining my own parts too.. Personally I think a twin valve both 6.5mm presta holes with a tubular inset with airgude round the second valve would be a better design and something I did with a road tubular in a ghetto setup.. On wider rims theres no reason why not to drill out valve hole, sure just look at the fat wheels with those holes in them...
  • + 3
 I'm a design engineer and not everyone is happy drilling holes in their rims, invalidating warranties and machining their own parts Wink Good luck convincing everyone that they need yet another standard, rims with two valve holes?! You'll have angry mtb mobs trying to lynch you!
  • + 2
 Those fat bike rims are designed from the beginning with those gigantic holes in them. Your regular mountain bike rim was not designed or intended to have the valve stem hole drilled out to such a large diameter. I know you fill the hole up with a valve and glue it in, but it is a certainty that the rim will have a stress riser in that exact spot. That is not even in question, it is undeniable fact. It's glue, not a weld. I was about to drill my presta valve 823's out to schrader diameter and was advised explicitly from Mavic themselves to not do that, I trust Mavic's judgement. I am a TIG welder and fabricator by trade with access to lathes and 3d mills etc, and no way would I put the effort nor time in to machine custom parts just to mount tires on my rims in a special way. But, that's just like, my opinion man. Not hatin, if it works for you then by all means keep on keepin on
  • + 1
 shit another standard lol... I'm running for the hills now but thats where we ride so likely find me anyway... thats why schwalabe have went down this route. Also a tubular only works for a small width range as doesn't expand. dean n easy is only upto 24mm internal. I'd guess theres approx 4mm range so next size might run from 24 to 28mm and so on. Schwalable have made an expanding system that fits 23-40mm. If they had made one for 23-28 and then for 29-34 and 35-40 could this have brought weight down? I had plenty of room on my 23mm halo chaos rims to fit mine, widen from 8.5mm to 10mm, only 0.75mm off valve.. could of done it with a bevelled file not a drill...
  • + 2
 Erm....what kind of design engineer are you specifically?
  • + 2
 Done a lot of 3d cad solids work mostly around car cylinder heads, alloy wheels etc, then offline cam programming for cnc mills lathes to make tooling to cast components. Delcam euklid solidworks etc.. Now have my own gardening company making more money working less Smile
  • + 1
 Congrats on the career move! Must say that I can't see the design logic that having two holes in a rim rather than one is an advantage. I'm sure you could do the calcs to work out the loss of strength, I'd say it was significant though. Liking the sound of being a gardener, but I'm shit with plants!
  • + 2
 I just go round with chainsaw cutting stuff down, great for the stress levels... two valve holes a spoke apart not between two spokes, will have zero loss of strength, but with likes off deemax that have milled out between spokes wouldn't work..
  • + 1
 Zero? Spokes don't create completely seperate zones on the rim. The rim is still a whole.
Chainsawing sounds great. Is it more landscaping than gardening then? What was the outlay for the kit?
  • + 1
 you put one hole inbetween 2 spokes on a normal rim then that becomes point of focus depending on structure and size it might not weaken the rim at all but stresses can be dissipated round it. A rim has 32 spoke holes as well so adding a second valve hole in next sector doesn't have any real effect.. Landscaping too hard work lol big outlay and constant need to find work. General maintenance, hedges, trees, grasscutting, pressure washing. Its regular work with same customers coming back weekly monthly yearly. I'm booked up to February atm with grasscutting starting again mid March... Theres another company I pass larger tree work onto, his track driven chipper is £40k and his selfdrive cherry picker is about same.. Trick is to place inbetween the likes of them and the man with a trailer on back of car.. thats the money point Smile
  • + 3
 Sod the wheels. This destructive gardening lark sounds right up my alley......I have explosives experience too, would that help?
  • + 2
 I'm for Northern Ireland we used to have to check under cars for explosives all the time as mate was in army... Be fun but too much mess to tidy up after...
  • + 0
 @schwalbe can you set it up without the inner innertube; double tubless?
  • + 1
 no the dual valve is part of the tube and there is a hole in the liner so it cant be ...
  • + 3
 Another piece of advice to anyone who contemplates getting ProCore: I've been riding with it for most part of this season and would strongly reccomend it. But: If you have deep carbon rims, make sure to check that the inner part of the valve stem clears the rim to lock on the outer lock ring, because if it doesn't, you won't get any air to stay in. (I haven't checked if there's a longer valve-stem version out but they wouldn't fit my carbon rims, only my alu ones.
  • + 4
 Ghetto tubeless for the win! Very cheap, very reliable, also offers a little rim protection. Only downside is it's a little more hassle to install compared to normal tubeless, but i don't mind that, considering the benefits.
  • + 2
 Similar system introduced years ago for dirtbikes (by nuetech.com called Tubliss)
Absolutely great idea, but installation is a PITA and the high pressure tube lost pressure between every ride.
Most of the riders in my area who tried it, didn't stick with it for long.

That said, I hope this system works. There's reasons I can see it succeeding where the Tubliss failed.
I have similar reaction to what seems to be the general thoughts; Skepticism backed by not wanting to drill an extra hole in my rims.

Kudos to Schawlbe for pushing the industry! All I need is someone local who I trust to run the system for a few months and swear by it. Then I'll be sold! Wink
  • + 2
 I have been running Procore for about 5 months now and it is a great system. It is setup on my Nomad3 with carbon wheels and used as my daily driver. Lots of climbing where I live and ride and at first I noticed it and now I don't even think about it. It works as advertised allowing the suspension to work better. The most noticeable part to me was the fact it acts as a volume spacer for your tires. Traction is insane and the momentum increase in rocky chop is very noticeable. One thing to note, it is possible to pinch flat with Procore in very specific conditions. When leaning the bike over in rocky turns the tire can skip off the edge of the Procore inner tire and make it to the rim bead. I have not had any flats from this phenomenon, but I did get a few rim strikes this way. One other friend did have a flat in the exact same situation running Procore. I do highly recommend the system especially in race situations. There is a major increase in traction and I did not even think about my lines at places like Mammoth where there are a lot of sniper rocks hidden below the pumice.
  • + 2
 Strange the reviewer says that you can be as aggressive as you want with the tire levers because it is impossible to puncture the inner tube, then two paragraphs later he says he had a flat due to the inner tube being punctured. If straight-up tubeless is good enough for my automobiles, it's good enough for my bicycles...
  • + 5
 "Follow the directions and you should have no issues."
sounds like it's from IKEA Wink
  • + 2
 I have everything set to make a ghetto pro core except I'd have to use two separate valves (and so drilling my precious rims). I'd really like to try it but that fact alone is stopping me from doing it tbh. Anybody know of a dual chamber valve of some sort?
  • + 0
 Let me know how it works and how much it costs I also want to take the plunge. having trouble finding cheap tubulars. I have no problem drilling out a rim
  • + 3
 They had or still do have this for dirt bikes, I almost bought into it then I heard it didn't really work, basically made it tubeless but you used one of the holes for the rim lock and inserted their setup and I think the operating psi was like 120 psi for the inner tube thing then you just ran what psi you would want as low as like 8psi. Dirt bikes already have atleast two holes in the wheels so it would have been easier to bite the bullet.
  • + 2
 Hey @ThomDawson , how about Procore? ;-)

Seriously, think about the forces that go into the inside tire`s bead which sits inside of your actual tire where no hook holds it. If you put up to 6 bar on a normal folding tire it will not stay on your rim for long.
  • + 3
 Thanks @ktmrider173 I came across the dirt bike setup while I was figuring out how I could do it. I think if I'm gonna do it I'm gonna have to drill my rims. I almost think that having two separate valves is a better solution, only reason Schwalbe developed the single valve was to avoid having people drill their rims I reckon. The dual chamber Schwable valve sounds a bit finicky and liable to cause problems...
  • + 3
 @schwalbe so you're saying the pro core inside tyre is different to your Insider tyre?
:-P
I realise that if my ghetto setup fails in doesn't necessarily mean that Procore will also fail. I also really like Schwalbe tyres. But the honest truth is I'm not willing to pay that much money for something that I'm not sure I'll like.
I also like to make things.
  • + 2
 @ThomDawson - correct! Procore is made from a different fabric than normal tires and, and this is essential, with a different beat that can withstand the forces. Insider is not made to be run hookless, so you can`t inflate it to the max pressure when your riding it inside the tire where there are no hooks. Also the ITC, the tire´s inside diameter is bigger then the diameter of a Procore which makes it very easy for the tire to come off. Just because it`s blue doesn`t mean it`s the same!

Also a 26" Insider weights 470g + tube + airguide.

There was a German rider doing exactly what you are going to do as he thought he can do that with a Insider and build his own Ghetto Procore. He thought it`s the same (blue) thing. In his quali run at Val di Sole he wanted to clear the last jump while the Procore came off on the jump and crashed pretty hard. He luckily didn`t seriously hurt himself, but this shows clearly that you should not run a Insider inside of your tire where there is no hook.

We really like your craftmanship, just don`t want you to hurt yourself when the tire fails. Now it`s on you!
  • + 3
 @schwalbe lol thanks :-D
I had assumed they weren't the same, I was in need of the elusive tongue-in-cheek smiley once again.
My plan is really just to get something working to test out. I've never once had a problem with any of my tubeless setups (with your tyres btw) so I don't doubt Schwalbe at all; only whether I need a Procore setup. I do like to head for the rocks though...
  • + 2
 @schwalbe nice to see a bike company replying to comments on pinkbike!

one quick question, I have a spank spike 35 that have previously dinged in one spot. Laterally, I have straightened it. But looking from the side there is still a flat spot. Does procore need a perfectly round rim?
  • + 3
 Hey @rifu , that`s hard to judge from here. As long as you get a TL-tire on and inflated, procore should work. Due to the very special rim design of the Spanks, I would recommend to feed up the inside of the rim a bit with a thick tape (rimtape, ducktape) in order to make sure the tire sits well on the rims. We`ve did this with Johannes Fischbachs Spank rims. The rims are a bit small for ETRTO conform tires, but if you put the additional layers of tape they work fine.
  • + 1
 noted. One other thing, how can I get procore in Indonesia?
  • + 2
 The best way to get Procore is to get in touch with our local Schwalbe distributor. You find your local Schwalbe distribution on our website:

www.schwalbe.com/en/haendlersuche.html
  • + 2
 I think this looks pretty rad. I'm a pretty big dude and struggle with pinch flats in real technical terrain. I'm sure a lot of it is lack of skill, but it seems like no matter what tire pressure I run at I can smoke a rim on stuff other people glide through. I'd like to try this, if it wasn't on back order everywhere.
  • + 5
 Seems like a big hassle. Weight. Cost. Changing tires. Getting a flat on the trail requires dealing with that mess.
  • + 2
 Does this really add that much weight? Isn't just a basic 650b presta tube about 200g? I feel like it's very difficult to notice a difference in weight between a tubed and tubeless DH tire, so it seems like the weight shouldn't be as much of a drawback as it's made out to be.
  • + 1
 Hey @Dan255 , It`s not only a tube. Its a tube with the special Procore valve, the airguide and the Procore tire. Adding all these bits is 200g.

www.schwalbe.com/en/schwalbe-procore.html
  • + 3
 @schwalbe that's what I was saying. I meant a standard 650b tube weighs about 200g so what I don't understand is why people seem to think that the Procore system is so much added weight, when it's really no heavier than a standard tube.
  • + 3
 @Dan255 - I`m totally with you. Sorry, I misunderstood. A 27.5" Freeride tube weights 200g, a DH tube is 290g.
  • + 6
 200 grams each wheel? That's deflating...
  • + 3
 "$230 is too expensive", "try roadie-tire-ghetto-version" and "flats are still the biggest issue in mountainbiking" comments coming in 3... 2... 1...
  • + 0
 TBH, I just run "Tubeless" tyres, with tubes, it weighs almost the same, not a headache, puncture about the same frequency and are easier to rectify in the woods, what's not to like????
  • + 1
 @cunning-linguist I really love riding at 20psi and sometimes below for the grip, especially in climbing and braking, and riding at slow speeds. However, in fast turns the tubeless always burps, or the tire folds over and washes out. Its also way easy to dent rims. Because of these disadvantages, I'm forced to ride at near 30 psi to keep the tires from folding over. I've also had 3 tears in my tubeless that were too big for Stans to seal this past season, and my prideful tubless self didn't bring tubes on 2 of the incidents. This seems to solve many of those problems, but my biggest concern with ties folding over with low PSI wasn't really addressed at all in this review.
  • + 0
 Bloody hell! That's low!!!! I run 30 lowest ever, as I'm a fat sod! Any less than 25 and I'll be cruising on the rims most of the way down the track! Tyre pressures are very subjective - I was more making the point about being able to go ride without 1000 hours fannying around, on or off the trail. What ever punctures least and is easiest to fix I'm all over!!!!
  • + 0
 I weigh 205 ish, and when I do ride below 25psi its only bad when you start picking up speed
  • - 3
 @pascalchristen That is the reality bitch. Most of us are not as stupid as you; defender of the f*ck industry.
  • + 1
 Totally worth trying the system on your front wheel to help with traction and arm pump/fatigue and a lot cheaper then the hospital after your normal tube blows. I think front flats at DH speeds are potentially deadly so why not keep your steering and better traction with more confidence at higher speeds! Who cares if the rear flats just Gwin it out!
  • + 5
 I'm pretty tyred of all the traction new wheel tech gets.
  • + 1
 How do they hold up to being punctured by pointy things such as thorns from the likes of Hawthorn or similar? Or are they just good for square edged hits, burping and pinch flats? As most of my punctures are from something sharp and pointy piercing the tyre
  • + 1
 @schwalbe It seems like I'm getting polymerization of the sealant at the interface between the inner and outer chambers, along the sidewall where they meet and flex. Making me run out of sealant quicker. Is this something you have seen?
  • + 1
 @keen515 - The sealant consists of a latex liquid and latex particles which swim in the sealant. Evertime the outer tire touches the procore a bit of the latex particles can stick to it. Usually this happens when the sealant is already a few month old. However, we suggest to change the sealant every two-three month to keep the sealant active.
  • + 3
 @schwalbe thanks for the response. That sounds about right, it's been my experience that they need to be refreshed after about 2 months. I'm also on the low end of recommended rim width. I imagine that wider rims would result in less contact between the inner an outer chambers.
  • + 1
 I just came back from my usual 20km morning ride. Equipment; Banshee hard tail frame (raw), home built 26" wheel set with Sun Ringle Inferno rims,XT hubs, Schwalbe Rocket Rons with tubes, Fox 120mm float forks and a 9 speed XT drive train. Tire pressure front 2.25 @ 32psi rear 2.1@35psi rolling fast with tons of traction. Why would I make mountain biking more complicated? Works for me.
  • + 4
 How quick d'you go through the RR at those pressures dude?
  • + 40
 Good for you, Grandad. Were you wearing corduroy too?
  • + 10
 I just came back from my 20km morning ride. Equipment; Carbon Nomad dual suspension (seafoam green), factory built Enve 27.5" wheel set with carbon rims, Chris King hubs, Maxxis high roller II with Procore, Fox TALAS 36 - dual position and a 11 speed XTR drive trail with wolf tooth 45T extender. Tire pressure front 2.4 @ 7 psi rear @ 10 psi rolling fast with tons of traction. Got a mechanical 10 minutes into the ride and had to walk home. Mountain biking is so complicated.
  • + 6
 Woaahh now @Boldfish there's a comment thread about #chestergate if you wanna get bitchy about something ;-) @Manx if you don't try new stuff how d'you know it won't work even betterer for you ? :-P
  • - 6
flag madmon (Nov 13, 2015 at 10:07) (Below Threshold)
 @Boldfish ....dude are you 13 years old dragging a load?
  • + 0
 Haha @Boldfish. Tweed hat and all?
  • + 8
 Tubes? ew
  • + 2
 Run tubeless tires, put two different pressurized tubes in them, profit? This is interesting, I bet the traction would be unreal, and the rolling resistance lessened, but to what extent, I don't know.
  • + 1
 I dont understand.So many so relutant in accepting a new idea and concept and who are those who are buying new bikes only for the reason of having a bigger wheel ?A wheel size like that they see others having it.Oh i must have a 27,5 or 29 because..... its better ? because the others have and i must too.
The concept of Procore/Deaneasy for a lot of visionarys is a waste of time and money.I agree its a bit expensive.
But for the rest i remember those specialists expertises who have said things like "nothing heavier than air will never fly in the skys.And a lot more,just surch.
For those Procore is too complicated and heavy and a total faillure.
For me is a solution .
  • + 1
 Saying "well it's heavy but you could use a lighter tire and rim" in the same article where you said several WC racers broke their rims and you got a cut in your tire ist kind of stupid isn't it?

Earlier this season I had 2 tire cuts that where so big I had to trash the tires and witnessed about 5-6 smaller cuts that needed to be patched up during my 2 week holiday in the alps.
On average I also trash one rim per season and bike (Enduro and DH), even though I use proper rims as I can't afford buying new ones all the time.

So getting lighter wheels and tires means still gaining weight and ending up with more issues than you had before.
  • + 1
 Also: I don't think just rolling over a curb at a right angle is what causes flats. I wonder if anyone ever looked into that, like trying different angles of the bike to the curb or the wheels to the ground.
My experience is that landing on 2 slanted rocks at a weird angle is pretty much a flat guaranteed.

The first few days in the alps I and 2 friends had to put in tubes at the rear wheel because we rode through some nails. That and single ply enduro tires were a horrible combination and we had about 4 flats a day (per person). We started pumping the rear tire up to 3bars, but that actually didn't improve things at all, the ride just got horrible.
I think we could have put 4-5 bars in there, that wouldn't have changed anything, except of maybe destroying the rim and tire.
The trails there are super rocky, fast and long and a trail bike just rides a lot harsher than a downhillbike, I'm not sure even procore would've made a difference there.
  • + 2
 On a primarily downhill track, this totally makes sense. I don't know why someone would not use it if they were sponsored. The info on their site is comprehensive. But, seriously, where the hell can you buy it?
  • + 3
 I wonder how the ProCore sales are doing, specially since people like me can DIY that system for less than $40 at close to the same weight.
  • + 1
 @paulaston I see you went from the recommended 23mm inner width and commented on a 19mm inner width not working, but what about 21? Its a pretty common inner width on trail/enduro rims that were not long ago a popular and very common size. What are the rim characteristics that might make a 21 inner width work if any? @schwalbe
  • + 2
 Hey @PRCVT , you can run the system on a 21mm rim, such as Sam Hill on the Deemax Ultimate, but the mounting will be very hard and we can`t recommend that to someone unexperienced. It`s quite easy to pinch the tube while mounting it.
  • + 3
 The real question is: will it ever be available to the masses? It should have already been out in January but I still can't find it.
  • + 2
 It is available to the masses. Its been out for over a year.
  • + 2
 Its on backorder
  • + 3
 They've also been selling it ONLY at their approved retailers to avoid any issues due to botched installations. Like if you didn't follow instructions or something...
  • + 1
 I never saw it anywhere and I never saw anyone with it..
  • + 1
 seen it at my local shop, was wondering why the owner was bragging that he had a set lol. He may even still have the set. Personally I don't wanna bother and not certain my enve's will like being aired up that much.
  • + 2
 Yeah,it will be available to the "ma$$€$".
  • + 2
 Where can I urgently purchase Procore? All of the online stores don't have it in stock and say it's available in 20 days or more. My friend's order from bikecomponents was only shipped six months after payment!!!
  • + 1
 Heureka.cz find schwalbe procore choose chop then find kontakty button for contact and write them for internatonational deal... few shops got in stock
  • + 2
 Not for me,not if adds weight- can see advantages,but its still not rocking my world as yet. Tubeless lost me a pound in rotational mass.. not going to put it back on!! Save my coin for something else I think!
  • + 2
 Waiting for review for soo long, however i'll choose tubeles setup for now... Right now procore is not easy to find online and also price is too high...
  • + 2
 seems neat, but has anyone tried this with maxxis or conti tyres? as it doesn't seem like it would only fit specific schwalbe tyres.
  • + 1
 I've been running the Procore system for a few months now and although I ran it only with Schwalbe tyres, I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work with tyres from other brands. I think it is definitely compatible with any tyre unless said tyres have some kind of weirdly shaped beads that wouldn't allow the procore to lock them in place and seat them properly.
  • + 1
 It works with ANY tubeless or TL-ready tire.
  • + 3
 I've used it with Maxxis, Continental, Michelin and Schwalbe. The system works the same with any tire that is tubeless or TL-Ready. Any other tire's would work but may result in air escaping from the tire carcass.
  • + 2
 I watched the installation video and my final conclusion is: It's only a smart "mechanism" to inflate a tubeless tire with a hand pump...
  • + 4
 the solution for trials bikes
  • + 0
 Too each their own, but this sounds like an expensive way to survive despite ridiculously low tire pressure and shitty choice of line. We have sharp rocks all over the place here in Los Alamos. I've yet to cut a sidewall or have a catastrophic "burp event", and I ride through multiple rock gardens every day on my way to and from work. The secret to my success? Good choice of line through the rocks and enough air in the tires to get the job done, both of which cost and weigh nothing. Don't ride like a blind jackass on half flat tires and you will have the same degree of reliability. My boss could benefit from this, though. That guy can destroy any tire/wheel combo. Learn to ride well or spend lots of money on crutches like this. The choice is yours.
  • + 0
 Looks like a BLATANT rip-off of the NueTech Tubliss system that was developed many years ago for dirt bikes. Everything on it is identical actually, from the mechanics, to the tape and valve, to the installation, to the user interface. I hope they're licensing it properly.
  • + 2
 Hey @sinister28 , we`ve heared this many times. Please note, that the system we use is already used in automotive industry since the 40´s. We`ve adapted it to the world of bicycles making it compatible for rims from 23-40mm. Added a special valve so you don`t have to do any changes on your rims and can mount it in every standard rim and our specific airguide to get the air around the inside chamber. On Tubliss, the air goes through a valve in the actual inside tire. We are not using two valves such as Tubliss and we don`t have the claws to hold the tire. Tubliss is made to hold the tire in its place while our system is made to reduce the impact on the rim once you ride low pressures. Looks close from the outside, but the details are by far different if you take a closer look!
  • + 0
 Your system still uses two valves, just with a check-off option in a single valve. There's no need for a rimlock in this application because nobody is putting 60HP into a mountain bike wheel. Both systems do the same thing, which is a pneumatic all-around bead lock/bead seal, actuated by filling a standard inner tube inside a core to press against the bead.

You have heard this many times because it IS a blatant rip-off. You did not "adapt" anything, you just infringed upon the IP of someone else.

nuetech.com/tubliss/#sthash.bxOi2TtS.dpbs
  • + 0
 I cant remember which racer it was during the DH WC but he cased on a rock from a drop of some sort and all of a sudden you just hear this BOOM! and the procore system blew up off the strike I guess and ended up debeading the tire itself causing just a shit show of rubber wrapping up on the cassette and what not. Procore is a cool system but I just don't ever see it really taking off. Cool for racing but other than that... meh
  • + 1
 Was that Harry Heath in Fort William? It`s explained up there in the review in Michael Kull`s quote.
  • + 1
 @schwalbe It may have been, But I don't remember the wheel collapsing as well, though they may have cut that camera and gone to something else since that guys race was over.


Just like anything in mountain biking there are gonna be freak accidents but man it was very interesting watching a tire blow off a rim like that, that was new!
  • + 1
 So this was him. You can quite well see a wheel dying in here: www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLwBFLf6TgQ

The section before this gap was quite tough. He must have hit something really bad with a deflated / flat tire that was constantly leaking.
  • + 2
 @schwalbe yup thats the mess of rubber I remember! haha

If I'm not mistaken a few other riders got flats right before that section as well..
  • + 2
 Thing is i order it next delivery is 2016 march..... No where can get it right now I orderd it and waiting waiting..... Crazy...
  • + 2
 Guess I'm not buying this for "the mountain biker who has everything" for Christmas. Damn.
  • + 1
 FYI for those who asked; the maximum rim depth the Procore valve stem will fit properly through is 20mm

so likely can't work with many of the wide CF rims currently on the market
  • + 2
 chester is so hardcore he burped his procore without even leaving his house...then he beat me up and took my lunch money. true story...
  • + 1
 @shwalbe Will I run in to trouble with my 22,8mm rim? I know you have to draw the line somewhere, and I know I do this on my own risk.
  • + 1
 Used to flat all the time on my nomad on tubeless maxis tires, now I run Dh casing tires. No flats equals winning plus more riding time!
  • + 1
 @shwalbe When will Procore be available to buy? The release date has moved more times than I can count. Everyone I know is pumped to try the system but nobody can get it.
  • + 1
 Hey @kboss , we`re constantly sending our Procore sets since April this year. Have you ordered your system at your local bikeshop? Make sure it`s in backorder. We`re sorry we couldn`t keep up with the demand till now. We`ve had to do some small changes just before we sent it our to the dealer in beginning of the year which cost us some time but makes sure there are no problems to fit it on almost any rim.
  • + 1
 Thanks @schwalbe. I have had it on order at multiple places, but neither large shop in Calgary, Alberta has seen one set delivered.
  • + 1
 This is a great review, too bad they are always backordered with no delivery date
  • + 1
 call me headstrong... just use dual ply with DH tubes! done! except for racing, this could really usefull
  • + 2
 Another overpriced, unnecessary product.
  • + 2
 A fat bike version would be the shiz.
  • + 2
 All this innovation is getting tiresome
  • + 1
 I didnt even read the details...just went straight to looking at the pictures lol. I guess i just wanna ride.
  • + 1
 What parts of this system need to be replaced regularly, if any? Are there any longevity numbers on this?
  • + 2
 Hey @gromer , you can use the system for many years (or bikes) without having to change anything as long as you make sure the inside pressure is always correct and you`re not snakebiting the inside tube of the Procore system... And if you do you can fix it with any patch.
  • - 2
 Not sure if "any patch" will do the job, also it depends where the snake bite occurs, and how large the snake bite or bites are...and due to higher pressures I was not able to run stable pressures then...
  • + 2
 Let`s say it this way - every patch that does the job on your normal butyl tube will work on the Procore tube! We suggest to use our self-adhesive patches which are easy to use on the trail and stick very well to the material.
  • + 2
 Thanks for the reply, @schwalbe!
  • + 1
 this tube was made to last one DH race that gets the rider past the Finnish line safely.
  • + 1
 Terveet Kadet!
  • + 0
 As said at the top, why on earth would you not just follow the instructions properly? It is a review, you can't really review a product you are using incorrectly can you.
  • + 1
 @schwable I have been trying to find out for sure if I could run this with enve m90s. What's your take?
  • + 2
 Hey @RynoRodrigosouraus , Unfortunately the system doesn`t fit on Enve M90´s. We`ve tested several carbon rims with a high volume (such as Ibis, or some new 27+ rims), but on Enve we would have to make the valve way longer which creates a higher risk for all user with "normal" rims to damage the valve. We`re working on a solution which could either be a modification on the rims through Enve or a special Enve tube from our side.
  • + 1
 Ah I see. Thx for clarification
  • + 1
 @schwalbe - sorry if I missed it stated anywhere prior including the Procore webpage, but what is the maximum inner-outer rim thickness dimension that the current Procore valve can properly fit through?
  • + 1
 @schwalbe - thanks for the info on Ibis deep wheels working. I presume derby rims and LightBicyle 38mm which are very similar will also clear the valve length and work ?

I'm interested in this system after having a rear tire unmount (very loud pop, not sure what happened) and having the bare carbon rim exposed and crack on a rocky fast trail. I love to run as low pressure as I can get away with (22-24F, 25-27R at 205#) on wide carbon rims, but I'm always worry about rim strike and destroying an expensive carbon rim.

Lower weight would be nice (integrate into a single tube with half non stretchable?) and lower price, but I guess this is rev 1.0
  • + 1
 The l-b rims only cost approx. $100 each more than equivalent aluminum rims, but are 100g each lighter, they don't charge $60+ each to build them out, and also have lower component costs for spokes, nipples, etc.. The true cost difference is not that significant if you have any half-way sense of the current market options.
  • + 2
 half a pound extra rotional weight no thank you....
  • + 2
 I was interested until I saw the price tag.
  • + 1
 Complicated, expensive, vendorlock-in. Heavy DHL at low pressure still better.
  • + 2
 RTFM!
  • + 1
 Obviously the valve in the first photo is mislabeled, it says it's a tire.
  • + 1
 I still think changing a tube is not a bad thing.
  • + 1
 Does any one know when they will be available for purchase in Canada?
  • + 1
 200grms on a 29er wheel would be very noticeable.
  • + 0
 All this because not enough people understand how to properly inflate a tire....well played procore....
  • + 0
 chester thinks this is stupid
  • + 2
 Chester tried pro-core once, only to see what being mortal feels like.
  • + 0
 it's not tire within a tire.. it's inner tube within an inner tube...
  • + 0
 Just wanted to say, WAKI are u alright mate? Seem a bit sketchy
  • + 1
 Boost compatible?
  • + 1
 yeah it's boost compatible. if it ever gets to your LBS, feel free to boost it
  • - 2
 drill another hole in your wheel, put a road bike tube in it and then put your tube over top of it
  • + 3
 Physics! Think about this: What would limit the pressure on the roadbike tube? ;-)
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