SRAM Announces New Budget-Friendly Guide Brakes

 I have had more issues with shimano brakes than codes or guides. There is a reason shimano owners are the only ones with bleed kits in thier vehicles

 @Tr011: Why? I Haven't bled a set I own yet. Oldest is the old 4 pot XTs from 2000.

Not sure what to say of anyone that hasn't had to bleed Sram. Can you give me numbers for the powerball?
You're the luckiest person on the planet.

 If your shimano brakes dont work you're doing something wrong or they need a warranty

 @Scotj009: what scott said!!!!!
2 yrs and still never bleed the xts
Sram db5 bleed 2 times in one year and had the levers stick.

 @Tr011: You sir are full of it!

 I think its hit or miss. I love shimano brakes, never had a problem with them, and they’re easy to bleed. I just wish they’d have a pad contact adjustment.
As for sram I had Guide RC’s on my trailbike and the rear brake never felt 100% regardless of how many times I bled them. But the Guide RE’s (guide lever,code caliper) on my DH bike feel amazing.

 @Tr011: I think someone needs to teach you how to bleed brakes correctly. I own a shop. Shimano just works If bled correctly. Avids we cringe. Bleeding them correctly takes time and the Dot fluid is a whole other PITA. Lol, than again Magura's make us cringe even worse.

 @spunkmtb: Err I just put on that funnel, pump the lever a few times and it's sharp again. No black magic needed to bleed a Shimano brake, which cannot be said of Formula and a few others.

 That was my exact thought too reading the title. At 100 bucks, why not just wait for a sale and get some quality, higher budget brakes. You can get Hope Tech 3 E4 brakes for 170... much better bargain in my opinion. Brakes are important, don’t skimp there

 _____ brakes always work and never need to be bled! _____ brakes never work and always need to be bled! -Pinkbike Mad Libs

 @brycepiwek: Yep! I’ve had good and bad luck with Shimano. Likewise with Sram. I have to pump my Avid Elixrs every time I do park laps. They don’t like the bike getting vertical or maybe the sudden elevation gain... not sure. Shimano is 10x easier to bleed. Less mess, less expensive.

 this sounds like an underpants gnomes equation

 @spunkmtb: Same background same experience, but I would add Hayes to the list as the most cringe worthy.

I always wondered why we even sold bleed kits. So many customers would end up trying to bleed the brakes making a total mess, ruining the pads. I had a rep straighten me out by asking why we sold spoke wrenches, as half the time the customer would end up bring the wheel back for to have use fix it? Oh ya more work for the service department............. Winter is a good time for riders to take a maintenance class, an I'm sure they can save more than the cost of the course in repair fees. Unless you have shimano brakes, but the kit watch the video, and happy riding

 I think what scares me the most is seeing how many pinkbikers don’t maintain your brakes ????. Fresh fluid is way better than 4 year old fluid

 @Tr011: Yes, Mr. Troll. The Deores do work better... with park laps... but... you’re... smarter... than... everyone... here... so... I... have... to... be... wrong.

 I've never bled 2 sets of Guides. RS and RSC. They always work fine and feel the same (after all 4 levers were replaced under warranty : )

 @Tr011: Spend some time in a shop that sells SRAM, or any mountain bike shop, and you won't bother with the service videos. Shimano has a reputation for reliable maintenance. They work. If you bled them and they don't work, you're doing it wrong or skipping a step, like replacing the pads (pretty crucial to lever feel, no joke). I've worked in shops for over a decade and SRAM/AVID brakes just require so much more labor to get them to feel anywhere near useful. It's not a human error thing, so chill. Everyone knows SRAM brakes are trickier to get a good feel from a bleed. The lever design and caliper design are just not friendly for bleeding. They're great when they work but you seem to have a lucky pair. So I hope your luck stands up to the test of time.

 @Scotj009: That’s what I’ve heard a lot of people say; the problem is, I’m getting ready to warranty my third set of XT brakes, on the same bike.

 What for?

 @Tr011: Thats because its so simple and quick to do, I would keep a bleed kit for Guides to if it would help them work, stop them from making so much turkey gobble noise, keep them from locking up and and and and and...........Just saying

But stoked that yours are working great, wish mine did.

 @fullfacemike: V brakes always work and never need to be bled! Hydraulic brakes never work and always need to be bled!

 @grizwald: i am a mechanic in a shop and in the last year or so must have send 30-40 shimano levers back for warranty, they work fine if your a bit of a mincer but the levers fail pretty consistently if your a harder/faster rider, sram on the other hand simply need to be bled properly, something few people seem to be able to do in my experience, if you need to watch a tech video to bleed a brake you really shouldn't be doing it.

 @Tr011: I have both shimano XTs and SRAM Guide RS, have a bleed kit for both (im uh meshanik)..have yet to need a bleed on either set of brakes, idk where people are getting problems

 @b45her: yeah I blew the bladders up in my Zees just riding hard. They don't fail catastrophically but the levers start to weep and it becomes impossible to get a good bleed ever again.

Old Shimano we're bulletproof, old avid was a nightmare but now the tables are turning.

The new Sram process is way easier too, bleeding edge ports are awesome. Shimano designs are outdated, not up to speed with even TRP anymore.

Also worth pointing out, I've had Shimano tell me to bleed my brakes every three to four days and to bleed them at the lever BEFORE EVERY RIDE. That way they'll be consistent at the lever.

No. They won't.

 @grizwald: I played that game with Zees and a set of Saints. 7 total sets of brakes in six months, all warrantied.

The guide R's I have that came used off a race bike work great.

 @spunkmtb: you own a shop but can't do one of the most basic task? Had five bikes with guides, no problems

 @greasecheese7: I do work in a shop there slick, avid/sram brake bleeds are down to 10 mins per end and shimano is about the same. The sram is not tricky or difficult if you know what your doing with the proper equipment, the lever design is meh for bleeding on some of the elixirs, the bleeding edge tool is fantastic, and its not luck if I can fix issues with problem brakes.

 @Carl96: turkey noises are rotor/pad related not bleed

 @Scotj009: shimano have a huge problem with their inconsistent bite point. I’m guessing it’s due to the master cylinder as now even the slx have the same master cylinder as xt8000,saint and xtr trail. All of which suffer the wandering bite point. It’s not air in the system b4 any one chirps up either. The lever stays solid and power is there. Shimano are literally putting the top end lever on most of their brakes. I guessing to get rid of them. They warranty the brakes no questions asked but the next set and the next all do the same. I won’t be suprised if they don’t have a new brake out soon. I’ve gone to hope v4 now and they’re so much better. Wish I’d done it years ago.

 @Tr011: yet somehow a problem I've only had with Sram parts.

 @Tr011: Wat's pathetic is that you are under the delusion that you know how to bleed a disc brake correctly. Try learning how to bleed every brand of disc brake correctly, being able to repeat those bleeds across all 6 or so disc brake manufacturers 100's of times in a row. Than talk to me about the quality of the disc brakes.

 @Tr011: No it's a Sram/Avid brake problem.

It's Ford vs Chevy, pick your Poison and someone will still have problems on both sides

 @spunkmtb: I don't understand what's so hard about bleeding Guides? Pretty straight forward, with Shimano being slightly easier. I've never really had a problem bleeding mine although I do bleed them regularly to keep the fluid fresh.

 I’m beginning to believe that a lot of people spend more time bitching on PB than actually riding their bikes.

 @Grizzlycycles661: totally agree. I used to bleed my Saints once a month - not because I had to but because it was so cheap and easy, why risk having a problem.

I now have Hope V4s, which are an arse to bleed and probably don't work better than the Saints. They still have the fluid replaced regularly though because... routine preventative maintenance is better than your bike failing and spitting you in to a tree.

 @ecly13: correction - V brakes never worked in the wet and mud - or when the wheel isn't perfectly true. Or when you were going down a really steep hill. Or if your frame was aluminium and the mounting bosses fatigued and failed.

 @TheOriginalTwoTone:

I haven't bled my original generation Guide R brakes yet. Starting to feel like it's time, but they're not terribly spongy.

 @spunkmtb: I have never ever ever had a single problem with bleeding sram brakes.... even when i had it connected to the trickstuff hydraulic gyro witch is possible to cause some problems! I never realy learned how to bleed a brake, i just tried it and it worked.... and im just a kid that doesnt realy know anything about brakes haha

 Apparently T stands for "terrible"

 @Theguyfromthealps:
Whereas the guide R is only "rubbish"

 @sam264: and RS is really shit?

 @RideGuides: and RSC's are really shit Codes.

 In fact, in Chinese, “guide” means “something expensive”

 @skylinespeed: like an 'escort'

 You should check and see if your Shimano calipers are leaking and need warranty. Look for black sludge or fluid between the pad and piston. Or throw everything away and buy Hope!

 It's called brand inertia. A few years ago Shimano made consistent, reliable brakes while SRAM (Avid) made the Elixr, which was notoriously unreliable and tricky to bleed.

Now, for the past few years, the situation has been reversed. Shimno's brakes (apart from the Deore) very often have wandering bite-point issues to the point where they arguably should be recalled; meanwhile SRAM are generally consistent, reliable and easy to bleed.

Yet the public perceptions still hasn't caught up with that change.

 @ilikeallwheelsizes: I had Elixirs on an old XC bike, which had no reliability issues but then had no power. I had Guide/Code on a Demo S Works which had variable lever feel and again, no stopping power. A friend had a YT Tues with Guides and they just never worked, lever to the bars after some big descents and still no power.

I have had Saint, which were just good at everything and some XT on my current trail bike, which are also great trail bike brakes. The Guide/Code are gone and replaced with Hope V4s. Consistently good, although with a few of their own silly little issues.

I reckon the main issue with SRAM brakes is the same as their suspension - they just don't have enough fluid in them and so vary massively with climatic and operating conditions and the lack of fluid movement means their performance will only ever be mediocre.

 If only they'd spend about 10 per cent of their marketing budget (which seems to be in line with the GDP of a small country) on making stuff work...

 They work fantastic, just not over 85F. Makes them perfect for those wise enough to avoid riding April-November.

 I'm a purveyor of pessimism, I recently bought my "dream" hardtail frame, and I don't trust it as far as I could throw it in terms of quality. I feel everything you buy has a Wiley Coyote, "ACME" aspect to it, and you're just along for the ride.

 Same here. And the ultimate weirdness - they don't howl at all - not a bit!!. TruckerCo pads

 @stumpymidget: Way to sh$t on this dude's Christmas.

 The SRAM brakes aren't horrible, they're actually a great product. Most of the people on here who hate on them probably don't have actual experience with them or they've just saw the other people hating on them and decided to jump on the bandwagon. I've owned several bikes within the past 2 years and 3 of them came with Shimano (2 had XT, 1 had SLX) and they all had issues with pumping up and inconsistent lever feel within the first few months of riding. The XT's i ended up replacing because after being bled (yes properly) and new pads the issues returned almost immediately. I've owned/own the Guide Ultimates, RSC, RS, and R's, and the R's were the only ones I didn't like and thats because I couldn't adjust them as much as I prefer. Shimano is a much more price friendly option, and I probably just had bad luck or something. But in my experience the SRAM brakes have more power, better modulation, and are more reliable. I'm also a 225lb rider, so maybe the shimano's don't like stopping my fat butt. YMMV. The Guides are more difficult to bleed, and i know the DOT fluid is corrosive. But I also like being able to go to Walmart or whatever and get DOT fluid...

 @gooutsidetoday: Thanks for the reply. I'm 185 and the SLX seem to have enough stopping power for my speeds. I guess I'll have to see how the Guides are. If the are problematic, it is cheap enough to put a set of SLX on there.

 Don't worry about it and just ride. The only major wide spread issue the guides had was the swollen master cylinder piston that caused the lever to get stuck on older pairs especially if it was very hot. But sram was fixing under warranty without any fuss and the new pairs should be fine.

I got a pair of 2013 Elixir 7's and they work fine 'till this day without any issues.
I had 2014 Elixir 7 Trails and they work fine to this day. Gave them to my brother this past summer who happily uses them now on his bike He originally had a pair of elixir 5's that he broke in a crash. Those worked, but felt kind of cheap compared to the 7's.
Upgraded my Capra to Guide RSC, so far after half a year no issues. Really happy with them.
Girlfriend has SLX and no issues, but they do feel a bit ON/OFF compared to the above bunch.
I also have a pair of XT's on my 3rd bike and this is the only set giving me trouble. The brakes are fine, but there is something strange going on with the pads (Shimano OEM). I don't use this bike very often and the pads seem to "oxidize" or something if they are left without use for a few months and they then just don't have any power for a while until they wear down the "oxidized" layer of the pads.

Haters gonna hate.

 @everyone: If you have Shimano brakes with poor performance and a loud howl, you need to check for a leaking caliper!!! I'm a mechanic, and I replace about 20-30 calipers a year. Road, MTB, new, used, XT, SLX, Saint... there seems to be no specific model. I've seen brand new '18 model ____'s dripping fluid on the rotor. Three years ago I could call and talk my way into being sent boxes of 20 calipers and 20 sets of F03-C pads at a time. Two years ago it was "I need two of those and three of these..." at a time. Recently they've reigned us back and insist on a case-by-case phone call with date-of-purchase bull$hit. Super annoying when I'm trying to get stuff back to customers... Plus call-tags and account credits... I now just fill a box with a heap of calipers/pads and ship it all back to them to sort out.
Good news for out-of-warranty cases is new pricing on calipers is CHEAP and come with (crappy) pads. Bad news is most shops charge a small fee for warranty work (unless it's their bike under their service plan), and out-of-warranty repair of a new caliper should be about $90 ($40 install and $50 caliper w/ pads).

I digress... Avid/SRAM has had the lion's share of problems, warranty or not. Remember the "Avid Brake Hose" issue??? holy crap... These new SRAM brakes are WAAAAAY better than the Avid stuff they replace. That said, the Avid stuff is actually pretty good after you rebuild/bleed everything (not cheap and/or worth it).

There are a ton of options out there, but saying ___ is best can only be unsupported. We'll never know what is "best" because Pinkbike leaves out Hope when they do brake comparisons. ZING!!!

 @Ferisko: yeah that is a known thing about shimano pads. If unused for two three weeks they loose power and squeeze. But heating them up one time properly and there just fine again. But I just changed to trickstuff pads, more power, never squeeking and not loosing power if unused. Shimano brakes ftw

 @gooutsidetoday: Good point about DOT fluids. At least there is a standard that applies across the hydraulic brake fluid industry. Mineral oils, however, are not standardized, and you are only supposed to use Shimano's version in their brakes. Other types/brands may work fine, but I wouldn't want to risk my life on that.Guides have been great on my all-around bike but I have one Zee on my DJ bike and had a shop bleed it when needed. I don't feel like ordering Shimano's oil for a single brake.

 The Guides are great brakes. I bought the Guide RS in 2014 right around when they first came out. Never had to bleed them and the modulation and braking were awesome. . . until I got the dreaded stuck levers. They warranteed them, but it was still a hassle. A lot of people had this issue with the earlier Guides and this has resulted in a bad reputation for these brakes.

 Ha I have the first Hope brake from the 90s and it is agricultural equipment grade. Gave me nothing but troubles but at least the homie from the Cherry Valley Hope office used to provide support at races. Haven't seen Hope at US races for years....

 @endlessblockades: I got an old mini/mono from Ebay for my DJ for like £40. scrubbed it up an it works great. Unlike my expensive formulas that need a f*ck ton of maintenance all the time an then are good for one ride. Now im looking for a matching front so I can swap out

 Serviced my Shimano SLX once a ride, bought them brand new, sold 3 brakes for 60 Bucks after about half a year. Same thing happened to my best friend. We now run Formula and are never going back to Shimano. Strangely enough, the most reliable brake I have had has been my 05 Juicy 5 and the 06 Juicy 7, incredible! The Guide now is once more a Juicy lever with a new caliper, so how can it be bad?

 The Brembo's on my Triumph are pretty good.

 Hope.

 Get some hopes mate. They really are different class. I’m now on v4’s and the power is massive but it’s the build quality that blows me away. Even the hoses are way way better. The lever and caliper are a work of art too.

 Magura

 Shimano are pretty inconsistent, they have power and modulation but I have hugged 4 trees too many. I like the Guides somewhat, not that bad, but I hear they tend to fade and get quite inconsistent as well. I ride Formula RC Tune on my bike and it has held up perfect so far. No matter what, Magura is still probably the worst route you can take. I guess there is only one HOPE out there to save the day.

 They recalled the master cylinder pistons a year or two back. I think it was something to do with the piston swelling and jamming... Free fix if you're the original owner, +-$40 otherwise.

 They fixed the issue in late 2016, then again in 2017. Perhaps for 2018 they will really fix it.

 @ski-or-die: Cool! I still have them kicking around, maybe I'll swing by the LBS. Thanks!

 nah, you're just a drop in the rain of crappy sram sram brakes

 YT warrantied my Guides with SRAM and bled and reattached the hose to the new levers (not rebuilt - new), and the whole thing took about a week and a half. Great CS

 Am sure I got Shimano zee and discs for £104, dosnt sound cheap to me

 What do you mean no warranty? This is a known problem and Sram was fixing it under warranty without any fuss.