Shimano XTR Trail Drivetrain - Review
We've had our hands on Shimano's eleven-speed XTR Trail group long enough to run it through everything from some extremely sloppy winter conditions, to the dust and rocks of Arizona, and even more countless miles of rowdy singletrack in southwestern British Columbia. The complete group, including the new carbon and aluminum XTR Trail wheelset, has even been installed on two different bikes during that time, a Rocky Mountain Element and Ibis' Ripley, which likely makes it the most well used drivetrain that we currently have in rotation.
The time we've put on the XTR Trail group has given us a clear idea of how it functions over the long haul, but let's first take a look at the details. Below is RC's take on the technical talking points of the XTR Trail drivetrain from the group's introduction back in April, and you can read the ride impressions farther down the page.
Shimano’s Gearing Philosophy
We were given a fresh explanation of Shimano’s drivetrain doctrine at the XTR product launch last April, with Shimano explaining that they divide the available gear ratios into two groups: “Driving gears” and “Challenge gears.” Driving gears, in the case of a two ring or three ring drivetrain, are in the middle range of the cassette when the rider is in the big chainring. Challenge gears are for the steepest climbs, when the rider is forced to select the smaller chainrings and to use the larger three cogs of the cassette.
What the above chart demonstrates is how Shimano’s close-ratio two ring option provides a nearly identical gearing spread compared to a SRAM XX1 single ring drivetrain. By switching to a 28 tooth chainring, the SRAM drivetrain can also match Shimano’s 26 x 36 option, but Shimano also offers a third, 24 x 34 option for its two ring crankset that provides XTR customers an even lower gear than SRAM can match (Shimano: Lowest gear 24/40 = 1.66:1 vs SRAM: Lowest gear 28/42 – 1.5:1). The direct comparison makes it clear that Shimano’s choice for trail gearing is a two ring transmission, and it competes directly with SRAM’s single ring offerings.
XTR Trail Crankset
The XTR Trail cranks are cold forged like last year’s and lack the bonded left-side crank-arm of its cross-country brother. The Q-factor is also ten millimeters wider (168mm) than the Race cranks. They are configurable in one, two or three ring combinations, with gearing ranges limited to 30, 32, 34 and 36 teeth for a single ring option; 24 x 34, 26 x 36 and 28 x 38 for the two ring option; and the triple ring option will only be available in 22 x 30 x 40-tooth combination. The two ring crankset that's reviewed below retails for $599.99 USD and weighs 652 grams, while the triple ring goes for $629.99 and the single for $399.99 USD. Bottom brackets range from $39.99 to $59.99 USD depending on what you need.
XTR Chain
XTR requires a special, eleven-speed chain that goes for $59.99 USD, and like its predecessors, the links are profiled asymmetrically to boost shifting performance. Sil-Tec, a slippery nickel plating, is used to keep the chain running smoothly in all weather, and beyond its microscopically thinner width, the HG-11 chain is further lightened by hollow pins.
XTR Front Derailleur
Shimano has consistently offered the best shifting front derailleurs, but that hasn't stopped them from coming up with ways to have them shift even better. Shimano took advantage of the new XTR’s smaller chain ring options and shortened the length of the front derailleur cage, then developed a top-mounted “Side Swing” mechanism that eliminates the old school derailleur’s bird’s nest of cables and lever arms that made a mess of the area behind the seat tube. Both improvements address nagging tire clearance issues that 29er designers faced when attempting to shorten the bike’s chain stays. All two ring front derailleurs retail for $99.99 USD, while the triple version costs $119.99 USD.
Unlike previous Shimano front changers, the new XTR cage has fewer tricky bends and twists to coax the chain from sprocket to sprocket, relying more on brute stiffness to get the job done, and the cage is also designed to compensate for three degrees of rear suspension travel. Two separate derailleurs are offered, one for two ring and another for three ring setups, and both clamp type and direct mount options are available. For 2015, only the FD 9025 model changer will offer a conventional cable routing. The new FD 9000 XTR changer will be easy to spot because it requires a novel down tube-routed housing that feeds to the front side of the mechanism, and we expect to see some zip-ties on bikes that were designed before the new XTR components were released to manufacturers.
Shift Levers
Shimano redesigned their XTR shifters with a longer cable take-up lever and a broader cable release lever that resembles Saint levers. The release lever can double shift if necessary - a feature that was added to facilitate faster shifting for single ring drivetrains. The internals have also been altered to offer a more crisp feel and tactile shift feedback, which Shimano refers to as “Vivid indexing” action. Cosmetically, the XTR shifters appear somewhat similar to last year’s when they are on the bike, except for the addition of a textured carbon fiber release lever, and like previous XTR, they are I-Spec II compatible, so they can be directly mounted to the brake levers. A set of 229 gram XTR shifters with standard mounting costs $234.99, and there's a $10 up-charge if you want to go with the cleaner I-Spec II mounting. Individual left and right shifters are available for $119.99 USD.
Riding Shimano's XTR Drivetrain
Front Shifting
It wasn't that long ago that almost every mountain bike had either two or three chain rings and, as many of you likely remember, moving the chain from one to another was sorta reminiscent of accidentally dropping from fourth to first in an old car - there was a lot of banging, scraping, and wondering just what the hell was going on down there. Okay, maybe it wasn't that bad, but Shimano's latest front derailleur and chain ring designs make it seem like it was. And yes, I'm well aware that there's going to be a load of comments below going on about two rings versus one, but I'd love it if we could all forget about that banter for just a second and take a moment to appreciate just how fast and precise Shimano has been able to make their front shifting.
![Shimano 2015 XTR review test]()
Rear Shifting
I know that most people reading this want me to do one thing and only one thing: compare the shift action between XTR and XX1, and make a clear choice as to which one is better. Unfortunately (or not), that's a bit like me trying to tell you that pizza is better than a hamburger - both taste great, and it just comes down to preference. The XTR and XX1 groups both shift sublimely and will leave a rider asking for nothing so long as they're both setup correctly. That said, the shift feel is different between the two, enough so that it'd be easy to tell them apart in a blind test. The thumb paddle of the XTR shifter has less throw to it before it makes things happen downstairs, although we're talking about a very negligible difference, and I'd also say that it feels a touch less 'kachug-y' than what the XX1 shifter offers.
![Shimano XTR Trail review test]()
Gearing Range
There was quite the hoopla when Shimano released the specs for their new eleven-speed drivetrain, with most of it centered around the fact that it uses an 11 - 40 tooth cassette that doesn't offer the range of SRAM's 10 - 42 offering. With single ring setups becoming the norm in many locations (but not all), it's easy to question Shimano's logic, especially because the Japanese giant surely could have come up with something to equal their competition. But they didn't, and not because they couldn't, but because they believe that the tighter jumps between the 11 and 40 tooth cogs on their cassette make more sense, and that two ring drivetrains also make sense for a lot of riders and terrain. To be honest, the former felt invisible to me when on the trail, even when riding XTR back to back against XX1, and the two chain ring setup did make the tighter range cassette a non-issue. Also, being able to cross-gear from the big chain ring to the large cog as required, and without any nasty chain rub on the front derailleur, made for one less thing to worry about in that I didn't have to use the front shifter nearly as much as you might think.
What won't be invisible to the average rider who's using a single ring is the two tooth difference between the easiest gear on a SRAM cassette and the 40 tooth cog on the XTR block. Single ring riders take note that both the top and bottom ends are a bit more limiting when using an XTR cassette with a single chain ring, but that obviously wasn't an issue with my two ring test drivetrain. The upside is that your wheel doesn't require the XD freehub body that makes the 10 - 42 SRAM cassette a possibility. I suspect that we'll be seeing a lot of companies choosing to spec their bike's with Shimano's recently released 11 - 42 XT cassette that offers a wider range than XTR and a decent cost savings.
It's also worth mentioning that while there are aftermarket companies offering single ring solutions for the proprietary 70-degree, four-bolt pattern of the XTR cranks, you won't be able to bolt up a spider-less chain ring like you can with SRAM's drive side crank.
Ergonomics
SRAM has long held the crown when it comes to adjustment and positioning options on the handlebar, and that's still the case when talking about the standard XTR shifter mounts, but the I-Spec II system does offer multiple setup choices that allow the rider to tinker until they get it exactly right for their hands. It also makes for a clean looking cockpit, with the slim mount taking up next to no room. One detail that seems small but is actually pretty nice on the trail is the heavy texturing of the two-way release paddle, which is more noticeable than you'd assume, but the small divots in the carbon thumb levers seem to do about as much good as nipples on a man.
A hiccup that I'd like to see improved is how difficult it is to flip the rear derailleur's clutch lever between the on and off settings. It's a minor thing, no doubt, but I did find it pretty difficult to move, especially is the heat of the moment when you're trying to change a flat tire quickly.
![Shimano XTR Trail review test]()
![Shimano XTR Trail review test]()
Reliability
I ran the XTR drivetrain on two bikes, a Rocky Mountain Element and an Ibis Ripley, and found reliability to be solid in most regards. I never needed to add tension (which you can now do externally) to the clutch hidden inside of the XTR rear derailleur, and it's currently straight and moving the chain across the cogs just as well as it did prior to being dragged against rocks and smashed into the ground. Its carbon outer cage is also still going strong, despite some obvious heavy contact with pointy things, but the threaded-in pin that keeps the cage from being wound completely around the parallelogram took leave long ago, which means that the cage is now free to rotate back past its stop when the chain isn't installed.
I'm satisfied with the group's long term reliability, with the exception of a few notable issues... I did manage to break the XTR chain twice, but the second instance was admittedly my fault. The first break looked a lot like the typical peeling of the outer plate away from the pin, and it wasn't at the joint where the supplied pin was used to install the chain. Still, these things happen, so I wasn't too bothered until I realized that I didn't have another joining pin (or aftermarket master link) tucked away inside my bag. That meant that I had to remove the damaged section of chain and re-join it using one of the factory installed pins. That's a no-no in eleven-speed land, which is a bit of a bummer as I feel like you shouldn't need one of their tiny joining pins every time you need to put the chain back together. Yes, I realize Shimano says this design makes for the strongest possible joint, which I don't doubt, but it's also about as user friendly as having to kill and slice up your own cow every time you want a nice steak. To be fair, I should also note that I've broken eleven-speed chains from SRAM and KMC, as have many other riders, so I don't hold the XTR chain's first failure against the group.
I also had some issues with Shimano's BB92 bottom bracket, although it wearing out to the point of rattling in a few months was less of a headache than trying to remove the cups from the frame. The composite BB92 cups do make sense in that they're a lot less likely to creak and groan, and they probably also allow for a small degree of self-alignment if required, but they're not nearly as user-friendly to remove as more robust aluminum cups are. I know, the right tools for the job and all that, but it'd be nice if they were a little less prone to damage if and when a rider needs to pop them out. Also, the last time I went to remove the crankset, the drive side bearing pulled right out of the cup and was nearly one with the spindle. Cue much swearing and a hammer going for a short flight.
Pinkbike's Take:
The time we've put on the XTR Trail group has given us a clear idea of how it functions over the long haul, but let's first take a look at the details. Below is RC's take on the technical talking points of the XTR Trail drivetrain from the group's introduction back in April, and you can read the ride impressions farther down the page.
Shimano’s Gearing Philosophy
We were given a fresh explanation of Shimano’s drivetrain doctrine at the XTR product launch last April, with Shimano explaining that they divide the available gear ratios into two groups: “Driving gears” and “Challenge gears.” Driving gears, in the case of a two ring or three ring drivetrain, are in the middle range of the cassette when the rider is in the big chainring. Challenge gears are for the steepest climbs, when the rider is forced to select the smaller chainrings and to use the larger three cogs of the cassette.
Shimano professes that the smooth, 10 RPM jumps between shifts generated by its Rhythm Step, 11 by 40 tooth cassette, optimize the efficiency of the driving gears that we use most often for both climbing and pedalling on the flats. While the closer gear ratios of Shimano’s XTR cassette provide smaller steps between most of the gearing range, they obviously cannot attain the higher top and bottom gears of SRAM’s XX1 10 by 42 cassette. To achieve a competitive spread, Shimano “strongly suggests” that XTR customers choose its two ring crankset option.
Here is the closest comparison between a Shimano XTR two ring drivetrain and SRAM’s single ring setup:
Shimano 28 x 38 tooth chain rings: Lowest gear 28/40 = 1.42:1 ratio. Highest gear 38/11 = 1:3.45 ratio. (22 gear selections)
SRAM 30 tooth chain ring: Lowest gear 30/42 = 1.4:1 ratio. Highest gear 30/10 = 1:3 ratio. (11 gear selections)
Here is the closest comparison between a Shimano XTR two ring drivetrain and SRAM’s single ring setup:
Shimano 28 x 38 tooth chain rings: Lowest gear 28/40 = 1.42:1 ratio. Highest gear 38/11 = 1:3.45 ratio. (22 gear selections)
SRAM 30 tooth chain ring: Lowest gear 30/42 = 1.4:1 ratio. Highest gear 30/10 = 1:3 ratio. (11 gear selections)
What the above chart demonstrates is how Shimano’s close-ratio two ring option provides a nearly identical gearing spread compared to a SRAM XX1 single ring drivetrain. By switching to a 28 tooth chainring, the SRAM drivetrain can also match Shimano’s 26 x 36 option, but Shimano also offers a third, 24 x 34 option for its two ring crankset that provides XTR customers an even lower gear than SRAM can match (Shimano: Lowest gear 24/40 = 1.66:1 vs SRAM: Lowest gear 28/42 – 1.5:1). The direct comparison makes it clear that Shimano’s choice for trail gearing is a two ring transmission, and it competes directly with SRAM’s single ring offerings.
XTR Trail Crankset
The XTR Trail cranks are cold forged like last year’s and lack the bonded left-side crank-arm of its cross-country brother. The Q-factor is also ten millimeters wider (168mm) than the Race cranks. They are configurable in one, two or three ring combinations, with gearing ranges limited to 30, 32, 34 and 36 teeth for a single ring option; 24 x 34, 26 x 36 and 28 x 38 for the two ring option; and the triple ring option will only be available in 22 x 30 x 40-tooth combination. The two ring crankset that's reviewed below retails for $599.99 USD and weighs 652 grams, while the triple ring goes for $629.99 and the single for $399.99 USD. Bottom brackets range from $39.99 to $59.99 USD depending on what you need.
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XTR Cassette
Shimano’s 2015 XTR ensemble hinges upon its long-awaited eleven-speed cassette. Shimano says that the jumps between each gear were carefully selected to be close to ten RPM - a feature that Shimano calls “Rhythm Step” gearing. The actual cog numbers are: 11-13-15-17-19-21-24-27-31-35-40 teeth. Shimano makes the 40 tooth cog from aluminum and the rest of the cassette cogs are made of titanium. The cogs are grouped on aluminum spiders in similar fashion to previous XTR cassettes. If you want a preview on how the gearing is spaced, the first seven steps are the same as Shimano’s ten-speed 11 by 36 cassettes, with the addition of the final 27, 31, 35 and 40 tooth sprockets. Great news for all is that the 326 gram XTR eleven-speed cassettes will fit on all ten-speed Shimano compatible freehubs, which is something that SRAM can't say. Previous XTR rear derailleurs, chains and right-hand shift levers, however, will not work with the new group. The XTR cassette retails for $349.99 USD.
Shimano’s 2015 XTR ensemble hinges upon its long-awaited eleven-speed cassette. Shimano says that the jumps between each gear were carefully selected to be close to ten RPM - a feature that Shimano calls “Rhythm Step” gearing. The actual cog numbers are: 11-13-15-17-19-21-24-27-31-35-40 teeth. Shimano makes the 40 tooth cog from aluminum and the rest of the cassette cogs are made of titanium. The cogs are grouped on aluminum spiders in similar fashion to previous XTR cassettes. If you want a preview on how the gearing is spaced, the first seven steps are the same as Shimano’s ten-speed 11 by 36 cassettes, with the addition of the final 27, 31, 35 and 40 tooth sprockets. Great news for all is that the 326 gram XTR eleven-speed cassettes will fit on all ten-speed Shimano compatible freehubs, which is something that SRAM can't say. Previous XTR rear derailleurs, chains and right-hand shift levers, however, will not work with the new group. The XTR cassette retails for $349.99 USD.
XTR Chain
XTR requires a special, eleven-speed chain that goes for $59.99 USD, and like its predecessors, the links are profiled asymmetrically to boost shifting performance. Sil-Tec, a slippery nickel plating, is used to keep the chain running smoothly in all weather, and beyond its microscopically thinner width, the HG-11 chain is further lightened by hollow pins.
XTR Front Derailleur
Shimano has consistently offered the best shifting front derailleurs, but that hasn't stopped them from coming up with ways to have them shift even better. Shimano took advantage of the new XTR’s smaller chain ring options and shortened the length of the front derailleur cage, then developed a top-mounted “Side Swing” mechanism that eliminates the old school derailleur’s bird’s nest of cables and lever arms that made a mess of the area behind the seat tube. Both improvements address nagging tire clearance issues that 29er designers faced when attempting to shorten the bike’s chain stays. All two ring front derailleurs retail for $99.99 USD, while the triple version costs $119.99 USD.
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Unlike previous Shimano front changers, the new XTR cage has fewer tricky bends and twists to coax the chain from sprocket to sprocket, relying more on brute stiffness to get the job done, and the cage is also designed to compensate for three degrees of rear suspension travel. Two separate derailleurs are offered, one for two ring and another for three ring setups, and both clamp type and direct mount options are available. For 2015, only the FD 9025 model changer will offer a conventional cable routing. The new FD 9000 XTR changer will be easy to spot because it requires a novel down tube-routed housing that feeds to the front side of the mechanism, and we expect to see some zip-ties on bikes that were designed before the new XTR components were released to manufacturers.
XTR Rear Derailleur
The 2015 XTR rear derailleur is essentially an entirely new model, with its parallelogram slant being reduced and the cage and upper pulley offset so the derailleur will better track the steeper angle formed by the wide-range eleven-speed cassette. Quicker shifting is said to be accomplished by extending the derailleur’s body about 10mm farther forward, so that the upper pulley leads the chain into the next shift. The Shadow Plus clutch has also been reconfigured with an external hex key adjustment, and the outer cage is carbon fiber. Adjustments have extended ranges to make the new derailleur more adaptable to various frame designs and, presumably, to allow it to adapt to future eleven-speed cassettes with different gear ratios - we test fit it with OneUp's new 45 tooth cog and it clears without any issues. Both the medium and long cage options retail for $239.99 USD, with the medium cage weighing 217 grams on our scale.
The 2015 XTR rear derailleur is essentially an entirely new model, with its parallelogram slant being reduced and the cage and upper pulley offset so the derailleur will better track the steeper angle formed by the wide-range eleven-speed cassette. Quicker shifting is said to be accomplished by extending the derailleur’s body about 10mm farther forward, so that the upper pulley leads the chain into the next shift. The Shadow Plus clutch has also been reconfigured with an external hex key adjustment, and the outer cage is carbon fiber. Adjustments have extended ranges to make the new derailleur more adaptable to various frame designs and, presumably, to allow it to adapt to future eleven-speed cassettes with different gear ratios - we test fit it with OneUp's new 45 tooth cog and it clears without any issues. Both the medium and long cage options retail for $239.99 USD, with the medium cage weighing 217 grams on our scale.
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Shift Levers
Shimano redesigned their XTR shifters with a longer cable take-up lever and a broader cable release lever that resembles Saint levers. The release lever can double shift if necessary - a feature that was added to facilitate faster shifting for single ring drivetrains. The internals have also been altered to offer a more crisp feel and tactile shift feedback, which Shimano refers to as “Vivid indexing” action. Cosmetically, the XTR shifters appear somewhat similar to last year’s when they are on the bike, except for the addition of a textured carbon fiber release lever, and like previous XTR, they are I-Spec II compatible, so they can be directly mounted to the brake levers. A set of 229 gram XTR shifters with standard mounting costs $234.99, and there's a $10 up-charge if you want to go with the cleaner I-Spec II mounting. Individual left and right shifters are available for $119.99 USD.
Front Shifting
It wasn't that long ago that almost every mountain bike had either two or three chain rings and, as many of you likely remember, moving the chain from one to another was sorta reminiscent of accidentally dropping from fourth to first in an old car - there was a lot of banging, scraping, and wondering just what the hell was going on down there. Okay, maybe it wasn't that bad, but Shimano's latest front derailleur and chain ring designs make it seem like it was. And yes, I'm well aware that there's going to be a load of comments below going on about two rings versus one, but I'd love it if we could all forget about that banter for just a second and take a moment to appreciate just how fast and precise Shimano has been able to make their front shifting.
Those who do choose to run multiple rings with their XTR drivetrain are in for a treat, with the front derailleur able to move the chain up to the large chain ring extremely quickly, even when the rider is still on the gas; the whole operation feels solid and leaves no questions. I love the simplicity of a single chain ring system, and I'd likely go that route on my own bike, even with the XTR cassette's narrower 11 - 40 spread compared to what SRAM offers, but anyone who's going to run more than one chain ring can do no better than what Shimano is offering for 2015.
Chain retention was also on point, at least for a two ring setup that obviously can't take advantage of the added security that a narrow / wide tooth shape brings. That means that while I did have the chain drop from the large to the small ring a handful of times, especially when I was in the smaller cogs and chain tension was lower, it never did jump off to the outside of the big ring. The rear derailleur's clutch certainly feels to be a touch stiffer than what SRAM offers, enough so that I could feel it tugging on the chain when riding my bike on pavement (but not on the trail) and activating the suspension, and that clearly helps matters.
Chain retention was also on point, at least for a two ring setup that obviously can't take advantage of the added security that a narrow / wide tooth shape brings. That means that while I did have the chain drop from the large to the small ring a handful of times, especially when I was in the smaller cogs and chain tension was lower, it never did jump off to the outside of the big ring. The rear derailleur's clutch certainly feels to be a touch stiffer than what SRAM offers, enough so that I could feel it tugging on the chain when riding my bike on pavement (but not on the trail) and activating the suspension, and that clearly helps matters.
Rear Shifting
I know that most people reading this want me to do one thing and only one thing: compare the shift action between XTR and XX1, and make a clear choice as to which one is better. Unfortunately (or not), that's a bit like me trying to tell you that pizza is better than a hamburger - both taste great, and it just comes down to preference. The XTR and XX1 groups both shift sublimely and will leave a rider asking for nothing so long as they're both setup correctly. That said, the shift feel is different between the two, enough so that it'd be easy to tell them apart in a blind test. The thumb paddle of the XTR shifter has less throw to it before it makes things happen downstairs, although we're talking about a very negligible difference, and I'd also say that it feels a touch less 'kachug-y' than what the XX1 shifter offers.
Another difference is that the XTR thumb paddle can move the chain over four cogs through its entire arc, while SRAM goes over five. I honestly never noticed that last point on the trail, although one could argue that SRAM's shifting allows the rider to grab one easier gear should they blow a corner or come up to an unexpected and steep climb. The effort required to move the XTR shifter's thumb paddle through its arc doesn't feel like it rises the more you push it, which is a change from years past, although I'm also of the opinion that that point might be moot once you have a few thousand rainy and muddy miles on the shift cable and housing.
One area where Shimano does have a clear advantage over SRAM is when it comes down to shifting to a harder gear out back, with Shimano's Multi-Release design allowing you to grab two smaller cogs instead of just a single cog per click as SRAM offers. This is handy when cresting a rise into a quick downhill section, or anywhere else where speeds go up in a short amount of time.
The speed at which the chain is moved across the cogs feels equal between XX1 and XTR, which isn't a surprise when you take into account that both employ eleven cogs that are squeezed into about the same slice of real estate. There is no clear winner in this department, and any rider fortunate enough to have either group is going to be stoked on what they offer.
One area where Shimano does have a clear advantage over SRAM is when it comes down to shifting to a harder gear out back, with Shimano's Multi-Release design allowing you to grab two smaller cogs instead of just a single cog per click as SRAM offers. This is handy when cresting a rise into a quick downhill section, or anywhere else where speeds go up in a short amount of time.
The speed at which the chain is moved across the cogs feels equal between XX1 and XTR, which isn't a surprise when you take into account that both employ eleven cogs that are squeezed into about the same slice of real estate. There is no clear winner in this department, and any rider fortunate enough to have either group is going to be stoked on what they offer.
Gearing Range
There was quite the hoopla when Shimano released the specs for their new eleven-speed drivetrain, with most of it centered around the fact that it uses an 11 - 40 tooth cassette that doesn't offer the range of SRAM's 10 - 42 offering. With single ring setups becoming the norm in many locations (but not all), it's easy to question Shimano's logic, especially because the Japanese giant surely could have come up with something to equal their competition. But they didn't, and not because they couldn't, but because they believe that the tighter jumps between the 11 and 40 tooth cogs on their cassette make more sense, and that two ring drivetrains also make sense for a lot of riders and terrain. To be honest, the former felt invisible to me when on the trail, even when riding XTR back to back against XX1, and the two chain ring setup did make the tighter range cassette a non-issue. Also, being able to cross-gear from the big chain ring to the large cog as required, and without any nasty chain rub on the front derailleur, made for one less thing to worry about in that I didn't have to use the front shifter nearly as much as you might think.
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What won't be invisible to the average rider who's using a single ring is the two tooth difference between the easiest gear on a SRAM cassette and the 40 tooth cog on the XTR block. Single ring riders take note that both the top and bottom ends are a bit more limiting when using an XTR cassette with a single chain ring, but that obviously wasn't an issue with my two ring test drivetrain. The upside is that your wheel doesn't require the XD freehub body that makes the 10 - 42 SRAM cassette a possibility. I suspect that we'll be seeing a lot of companies choosing to spec their bike's with Shimano's recently released 11 - 42 XT cassette that offers a wider range than XTR and a decent cost savings.
It's also worth mentioning that while there are aftermarket companies offering single ring solutions for the proprietary 70-degree, four-bolt pattern of the XTR cranks, you won't be able to bolt up a spider-less chain ring like you can with SRAM's drive side crank.
Ergonomics
SRAM has long held the crown when it comes to adjustment and positioning options on the handlebar, and that's still the case when talking about the standard XTR shifter mounts, but the I-Spec II system does offer multiple setup choices that allow the rider to tinker until they get it exactly right for their hands. It also makes for a clean looking cockpit, with the slim mount taking up next to no room. One detail that seems small but is actually pretty nice on the trail is the heavy texturing of the two-way release paddle, which is more noticeable than you'd assume, but the small divots in the carbon thumb levers seem to do about as much good as nipples on a man.
A hiccup that I'd like to see improved is how difficult it is to flip the rear derailleur's clutch lever between the on and off settings. It's a minor thing, no doubt, but I did find it pretty difficult to move, especially is the heat of the moment when you're trying to change a flat tire quickly.
Reliability
I ran the XTR drivetrain on two bikes, a Rocky Mountain Element and an Ibis Ripley, and found reliability to be solid in most regards. I never needed to add tension (which you can now do externally) to the clutch hidden inside of the XTR rear derailleur, and it's currently straight and moving the chain across the cogs just as well as it did prior to being dragged against rocks and smashed into the ground. Its carbon outer cage is also still going strong, despite some obvious heavy contact with pointy things, but the threaded-in pin that keeps the cage from being wound completely around the parallelogram took leave long ago, which means that the cage is now free to rotate back past its stop when the chain isn't installed.
I'm satisfied with the group's long term reliability, with the exception of a few notable issues... I did manage to break the XTR chain twice, but the second instance was admittedly my fault. The first break looked a lot like the typical peeling of the outer plate away from the pin, and it wasn't at the joint where the supplied pin was used to install the chain. Still, these things happen, so I wasn't too bothered until I realized that I didn't have another joining pin (or aftermarket master link) tucked away inside my bag. That meant that I had to remove the damaged section of chain and re-join it using one of the factory installed pins. That's a no-no in eleven-speed land, which is a bit of a bummer as I feel like you shouldn't need one of their tiny joining pins every time you need to put the chain back together. Yes, I realize Shimano says this design makes for the strongest possible joint, which I don't doubt, but it's also about as user friendly as having to kill and slice up your own cow every time you want a nice steak. To be fair, I should also note that I've broken eleven-speed chains from SRAM and KMC, as have many other riders, so I don't hold the XTR chain's first failure against the group.
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I also had some issues with Shimano's BB92 bottom bracket, although it wearing out to the point of rattling in a few months was less of a headache than trying to remove the cups from the frame. The composite BB92 cups do make sense in that they're a lot less likely to creak and groan, and they probably also allow for a small degree of self-alignment if required, but they're not nearly as user-friendly to remove as more robust aluminum cups are. I know, the right tools for the job and all that, but it'd be nice if they were a little less prone to damage if and when a rider needs to pop them out. Also, the last time I went to remove the crankset, the drive side bearing pulled right out of the cup and was nearly one with the spindle. Cue much swearing and a hammer going for a short flight.
Pinkbike's Take:
 | Shimano is going to have an uphill battle trying to talk the average trail rider into a two or three chain ring drivetrain - my non-racer body would still prefer a single ring setup, despite being surrounded by steep climbs and tall mountains - but those who do decide to go that route will be rewarded with the best shifting front derailleur that's ever been conceived. That said, this isn't a single ring versus double ring comparison, but rather a review of Shimano's latest XTR drivetrain, which, as probably shouldn't come as a surprise, performs extremely well. And while I do have a few reliability concerns, which is odd when talking about Shimano, there is absolutely nothing to complain about when it comes to shift action. - Mike Levy |
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XTR is still a amazing piece of equipement..
reviews.mtbr.com/shimano-components-where-to-spend-your-money/2
To sum it all up the best bang-for-the-buck 10-speed XTR build would be:
Rear shifter: XTR
Front shifter: SLX or Deore
Front Derailleur: XTR
Rear Derailleur: SLX
Cassette: XT
Crank: SLX
Chain: XTR
Brakes: SLX
To be fair I am a shimano fan boy. I am giving sram a go after nearly 15 years of just watching it from the side lines. It shifts. It gets to the gear I want to be in. its loud, its clunky, but feels solid. Comparing it to my 1 up converted xt drive train, which is quiet, smooth and thus far has never damaged a chain. Its a bit of a let down. I do like the wider range of gears. 11 to 9 teeth doesn't seem like much but being spun out on my favourite Down hill and knowing some one else on Strava is going faster then me just hurts.
I'm definitely more fond of Shimano, but i'm not against SRAM by any means. I've stuck with Shimano basically on price. Shimano shifts smoother, looks and feels better, but most importantly IT'S CHEAPER. I haven't encountered any significant issue with SRAM's drivetrains, it's just that the shifting feels "cheap" in comparison to Shimano. Oh and Shimano has Multi-release, which is pretty frikin handy.
Also, Multi-release is almost mandatory for 10 speeds, as I find myself changing 2 cogs more often than one, & I expect that to be no less true on 11 speed. Which is why I'll be running XT01 as my 11 speed drivetrain choice, though I'm leaning towards waiting for 11 speed saint, so that I can go with that shifter: the 10 speed saint shifter is the best of the lot between XTR, XT, & Saint. I can wait.
ep1.pinkbike.org/p6pb11790333/p5pb11790333.jpg
M8000 plus OneUp's 45t ring looks to finally be enough range along with a reasonable enough price to get me to drop the front derailleur on my primary bike. I'm trying out the expanded 1x10 on my spare bike now, but I already know that it's not going to be enough range for my primary bike.
I figure if you're willing to spend $90 for an expander cog, $30 shouldn't phase you to get an even wider range. I'll probably step up to the XG-1180 for about $180, though.
I stopped using CRC after they messed up 4th order, which contained only 2 items... and since they prices started including CRC racing team... Deutchland ich leibe dich!
My point is more that there's comparable cassette pricing between shimano & sram now, though you can certainly make a weight argument. I'll take the improved range over the weight reduction, personally, or like I said, spend about $50 more to get more range at a more comparable weight.
XT will bring 1x11 to a much cheaper bike than even GX could.
A couple points about the price comparison though - GX is a step down from XT so it's really not a true comparison, and you have to factor in at least $80 for the XD driver (the one for my wheelset is $130), and, that's assuming you have a convertible wheelset. So it can get alot more expensive very quickly, whereas XT is bolt-on for anyone. You could actually do XT with OneUp's 45t expander for a price comparable to stock GX (and you'd still end up with XT as opposed to heavier GX, if that matters).
@EVERYONE stop comparing GX to XT as they are NOT comparable. By next year when (I believe) cheaper XD wheelsets start popping up, SLX will be available and will be much cheaper than XT. THAT'S GX's concern...not XT.
Group for group, Shimano is cheaper than SRAM, even when you ignore the wheelset issue. The reality right now is that M8000 is by a longshot the cheapest way for someone on any 10-speed drivetrain to get into 1x11, largely thanks to the extra cost of the XD driver. By the time this changes (IF it changes), XT will have a gigantic head start in the market and a lead that will be tough to surmount. It's hard for me to see, from a business standpoint, how XD was a smart choice (or at least making it necessary for 1x11 SRAM drivetrains). It has put SRAM at a competitive disadvantage from the start. A disadvantage that is now going to become painfully apparent. All of this for one very controversial tooth.
Though SRAM could simply drop their prices, and everyone would win. Consider me high on the skeptical list for that though.
My 10sp cassette is almost worn out, so is chain of course, then my 3 year old x9 rear mech is a mess, so the only thing keeping me by 10sp is the X0 shifter. Prices of Shimano 11sp stuff is almos on par with 10sp stuff. I think I will change to 11sp XT as soon as my 10sp SLX cassette is done.
@WAKIdesigns 11t to 10t is a bigger gear jump than 36t to 42t(9% vs 6%, IIRC) It allows me to drop a chainring size, & I'm more inclined to do it that way than run a 45t cog.
@hamncheez I'm happy for you that SRAM's 1x range is sufficient. However for the majority of riders, it is not. I'm trying 1x10 with OneUp's 42t on my secondary bike, but I already know that it's going to be an unacceptable compromise. I just want to see how it goes and if my riding adapts to make it do-able. As for my primary trail bike, 24/36 on the low end and 38/11 on the top is JUST enough. I might be able to give up a gear on the top if I was forced, but absolutely NOT on the bottom.
However having said that, the 11-45 cassette is basically the BARE MINIMUM for me. Other than "just because", I don't really see the justification for someone like me to go to 1x...the weight savings is minimal, and simplicity is debatable as I have zero issues with my front mech now. At this point I prefer the peace of mind of that extra range over the very very slight weight savings of 1x.
EDIT - oh and one more thing, there's no M/F-ing way i'm paying MORE for 1x than I paid for 2x. I'M DROPPING COMPONENTS FOR A REASON!!!
But just remember that the Di2 Battery lasts over 3,000 Km For most people that'll mean you'll only need to charge it a couple of times a year.
Also, whether XT is better is debateable. If you are looking for max cassette range, then the XT cassette is BETTER, true. If you are looking for the best price for 1x11, then XT is king, true. However, if weight is your biggest concern and price isn't that big of a deal, then XTR wins hands-down. And if you are one of those guys but want more range - just use the XT cassette with your XTR setup, or throw in a 45t expander. EVERY ONE of these options is cheaper than X01/XX1.
So you need to divide the price by 1.19 to get the final price.
Here you have a list of good sellers.
www.dtgv.de/nationale-studien/online-fahrradshops-test-von-preisen-angebot-und-service.html
*you fools
XTR is seriously expensive and sophisticated kit. So is XX1. This is a small part of the market - it's really the bling crowd and dedicated racers who'll go for this. One or two steps down in either manufacturer's range still gets you amazing shifting, reliability, and pretty amazingly low weight. And these guys push each other - also good for all of us. But the thing I'm most stoked about is that they approach things a little differently. Shimano, with its emphasis on making front derailleurs not suck, has just allowed people to get insane range and nicely stepped gearing at a much lower hassle factor. Good for them. SRAM has focused on simplicity and 1x-ing all the things. Good for them. So then Shimano has played the simplicity game, too - and for a wee range payoff (11 instead of 10 tooth small cog), you now get to keep your standard hub driver and go 1x11 with XT. And they both keep pushing this stuff into lower end groups.
Frankly, this is pretty good stuff. I'm stoked. A couple years ago, on the bikes most of us buy ($2.5-3.5k trail bikes), you ended up with OK 2x10 drivetrains, some sort of mix of X7 or X9 or SLX. Now those bikes are already starting to show up with 1x11, and that will get more and more common. Same thing seems to happen with brakes - SLX brakes these days are amazing, and SRAM's finally build decent mid-market brakes not constantly needing a bleed as well.
I know we all love to bitch about how bikes are too damn expensive these days. But unlike the larger economy, there seems to be real trickle down in mountain biking. And as a result, you can walk into your LBS and buy a trail bike around $3k that doesn't really require you to upgrade parts.
against the competition, (or is it the other way around)?
This is an XTR, there is nowhere else to go, you've reached the top already.
I bought XTR Trail brakes last summer to replace my Hopes. Such incredible refinement, modulation and power. And crazy easy to bleed.
I was so happy with then I switched my drivetrain from SRAM to XTR. I'm 100% sold.
That isn't totally true, the cassettes use a multi-spider structure with two clusters built on a carbon spider and two clusters with aluminum spiders. There are six titanium (19-21-24-27-31-35), one aluminum (40), and four steel (11-13-15-17) cogs.
*In fact, it is possible to tell the difference by the different colors on the cassette
I want a proper gearbox. I don't want more gears. I don't need smoother shifting. I defiantly don't need want two front rings. Why shift twice as much? With no benifit other than smooth shifting? What a waste of time and r&d
Shimano/SRAM/Box and everyone else building derailuers please put some serious time into a gearbox. That would be a game changer. You all make great dérailleurs. Not one of you makes a great gearbox. No I don't want a geared hub either. A gearbox in the frame at the BB 8-12 gears. Same spread as my XX1 32/10-42 but with one lower gear. Yes you can make the spread between gears wider. I think stronger riders can handle a wider spread with less gears.
Also running XSaint on my DH bike. 7sp Sram DH cassette with 10sp Saint shifter/mech.
Why would you want 2 front chain rings, an extra shifter, and extra derailleur, cabling/housing, and more chain length? If you can achieve the same low/top end gearing with a single front ring? I don't see how that "competes" with SRAMs 1x methodology at all. Sorry.
Seriously, i'm not joking...as far as I know there is NO way to attain the full range I have now with a 1x setup. If you know a trick that I don't, please share it. I'm not running 2x because I love complexity. I'm doing it because it's the simplest drivetrain that I can find that gives me the minimum range I need.
Kinda surprised we don't hear more about this problem when you can replicate it on so many setups. Do people just not climb tech stuff much?
I wouldn't run an 11-40 though, nor would I run 11-42@10spd. Yes, going to a 10t cog is expensive, but the gearing range is superb.
Hope Pro 2, still running strong on my 26, but the new bike (with dt-swiss m spline) is failing at the freehub (sigh) and these new shimano wheels look tempting...
Shimano hub + their 40x24 combination... will I have to pop 70€ a year on freehubs again?
Drivetrain: The clutch is great, the new shifter feels superb, and with the proper break-in period you never have to adjust anything (typical top-tier shimano stuff). But, I have noticed an absurd amount of wear on the largest aluminum cog - I started to notice it after my first couple short (10-15 mile) rides. Strange that all the other cogs are still crisp and are made out of the some other material, yet the only one seeing serious wear in such a short amount of time is the one made of a different material. All i can ask is: Why Shimano, Why?(please note cassette pictures in Levy's review) Also, I have noticed a large amount of stretch in the chain(keep in mind I have about 75 miles total on the bike). Maybe it has something to do with the wear on the cassette? And Finally: Gear ratios are totally off. Granny may almost be there, but let's talk about spinning out on flat hardpack... It's the rockies, and although getting a long flat section is rare, I should be allowed to crank through flats to keep up with other riders, but I don't even come close (and I look really stupid spinning out at 2/3rds their speed)... And as far as going on even the slightest downhill, don't even bother changing gears or pedaling because it doesn't even matter, you will just end up hurting yourself (just keep it in a good pedal-kick gear for those switchbacks/techy stuff)
Drivetrain Side-Note: PLEASE Do something about the finish on the crank arms. (read in sarcastic whiney voice): "I have completely worn off the precious xtr logo, through all the fancy chrome finish, down to raw metal on the crank arms, with nothing but my shoes, just riding along..." But seriously - My shoes have a full grain leather upper and should not be wearing the crank down to raw metal within a couple rides... Period.
Brakes: the brakes are superb with consistency, feedback, and stopping power regardless of the situation (on longer downhill course they got a bit squishy near the end, but that's to be expected), but can you change something about the cheap mounting screws that hold the calipers to the frame/fork? Why should I have to have a mess of wires hanging from my screw heads in order to keep them from unthreading themselves? They are also very soft screws and easy to strip (not saying I stripped mine but I can feel that they are very close - and that is following torque-specs with a brand new Williams bit set). On a happier note... I was able to cut my cable lengths and get the bike through its' break-in period without having to bleed either brake, and they are still as amazing as if they were fresh out of the box.
So my bottom line: Shimano claims that they have XTR Trail for the 'trail rider', but I would never recommend this drivetrain to anyone other than a hardcore racer, and even then - how soon will something have to be replaced?
"...26 x 36 option, but Shimano also offers a third, 26 x 36 option"
-no expensiive narrow wide pulley wheels to replace if one should break
-no special freehub body to mount cassette. (I know its for the 10T cog but come on, %99 of us just want the easier climbing gear
-longer lasting
-shifter grabs 2 downshifts with one push if rider chooses (love this and use it all the time)
-a few friends have race face sixc cranks and ring with xtr derailleur/shifter/cassette/chain and works amazing so there's your single ring solution
Basically I hate proprietary crap and shimano seems to still be a basic drivetrain system which is ideal for the average weekend warrior.
I like SRAMs spirit in creating the 10t, but the cost FAR FAR FAR outweighs the benefit. FAR.
That's why I buy SRAM gears. I have tried to go trigger shifter but Gripshift just works better for me. Shimano makes better crank and BB combo so in the front I run SLX cranks with a Blackspire narrow wide and a proper bashguard. You can't fit a bash guard on a SRAM 11 speed crank, you are stuck with using a taco. I don't understand people who are die hard fanboys of one company. Pick the best tech from whoever happens to be making it.
Also, do they get ceramic bushes or bearings? your comment leaves me confused.
As for your second comment, the top one is a ceramic bush (allows for lateral slop to improve shifting fidelity, which is why I don't like alloy ones, they're too rigid) and the lower has a sealed bearing :p
@groghunter - XTs jockey/pulley are worth the money. Dura Ace won't fit I think.
On the jockey wheels, I think it depends on the speeds: 9 speed DA was 12t jockey, but I think 10 speed & above went to down 11t. Not worried enough about it to go look though, thanks for the info, I'll look at XT ones when/if I burn up these alloy ones.
The Future isnt what it used to be
It's more than just the number of gears dude... it's fit, finish, aesthetics, feel, and weight (if you care about weight). XTR shifters are in a completely different league from any other Shimano model.
That said, I'll never run an XTR cassette unless it's the only Shimano option for something I want (like 11spd at the end of last year)
"XTR sucksorzz OMG XX1 all the wayzzz" is the kind of thing you hear way too much around here, and it's generally spoken by "kids" probably still running hacked deore/LX 1x9 drivetrains or a triple crankset with an aftermarket bash guard on the third ring position. Same goes for the Pike/CCDB hype, all perpetuated by guys who probably don't have their suspension set up correctly anyway. The guys like me and Alias who actually have or have used these components, and know how to actually set them up, sit quietly shaking our heads. But sometimes we feel compelled to speak up.
That's where the saying "the more they talk, the less they know" comes from.
My primary bike is full XTR, but that's because I can afford the best so I buy the best. It definitely doesn't make me a better rider. If you can't afford it, just buy something cheaper. There are piles of great options in everyone's price range. Hell a full Deore groupset with hydro discs can be had for $250 brand new, and it's a great setup. No need to try to justify your actions by putting down more expensive gear.
And ashyjay said "only worth it if you're going DI2". I was pointing out there are benefits to regular XTR over XT. This isn't rocket science
I say "bias" because you cite "fit, finish, aesthetics, feel, and weight" as benefits of XTR, but of those, only weight is a practical benefit if, as you say, you care about weight. Some people also don't care as much as you or I about about fit, finish, aesthetics, and feel, so really that's all pretty subjective (as "worth" always is). My main point is that as annoying as the "kids" might be, it's just as petty to point out differences in available resources (economic or otherwise). Sure, if a person has never used a part you don't want their opinion on how well it works, but really, what is gained by adding that they aren't smart or experienced enough to set it up properly, or can't afford it now and never will, or whatever? Especially if it turns out that they can actually afford it, or they have used it and still don't think it's worth it. I say nothing. Just makes you look a bit elitist and puts them on the defensive. Sure, it's the internet, but let's use it better.
Fixed for you. Oh and I disagree on who's paying attention vs. who's profiting on fads.
Sure, shimano is trying to push front deraileurs to make money, but SRAM is guilty of a whole lot more.
MSRP on the GX1 cassette is $144. That's less than an SLX cassette and expander cog that tons of people are using now.
The GX1 rear derailleur is even less at $115.
If anything should be a fad in mountain biking, it should be the front derailleur.
GX Cassette ($130) - www.chainreactioncycles.com/us/en/sram-xg-1150-11sp-cassette/rp-prod135801
SLX Cassette ($30) - www.merlincycles.com/shimano-slx-hg81-10-speed-cassette-49512.html
Add the $90 expander set for a $120 final price. So as you can see, the GX cassette IS NOT cheaper. However, to me that's an unfair comparison as the GX cassette is an 11-speed unit and that particular SLX cassette is 10-speed. You also forgot to include the XD driver that the SLX cassette does not require.
But, even forgetting that, the M8000 cassette is going to go for around $80 at the super-discount online retailers (like Merlin), so despite being a step up from GX, and not requiring the $80 XD driver (AGAIN assuming you have a convertible wheelset), the XT cassette will STILL be cheaper.
Oh, and the current SLX derailleur, even adding in the RADr cage that you should probably use for an expanded cassette, is still about $30 cheaper than the GX rear derailleur. The M8000 XT derailleur will sell for about $60 online, so yeah...not even close.
Hint to SRAM fanboys - you may want to leave out prices in these arguments, because you aren't going to swing anyone's opinion with them.
XTR=XX
XT=XO
SLX= X9
Deore=X7/X5
It is astounding to me how so many people would rather have a low end SRAM groupo than a mid level SLX groupo. Bike manufacturers know that people want the 1x11 so they are making sacrifices elsewhere on their OEM builds to be able to put these groups on their bikes. Personally, I would prefer to have an SLX group and a better fork on my bike than GX and a lower end fork for the same money. Obviously the newer technology is what people want, but Shimano stuff isn't "old", especially with OneUp's add on components.
Now the XT 1x11, now that will change the game... I can't wait!
If we are comparing quality and features...
XTR=XX1/X01
XT=XX1/X01
SLX=XX1/X01
Deore=oh that's for kids bikes
If we are comparing prices...
XTR=GX
XT=GX
SLX=What's that?
Deore=I told you that's for kid's bikes!