SRAM X01 - One-by-Eleven for the People

Jun 26, 2013
by Richard Cunningham  
SRAM X01 group

SRAM's new X01 eleven-speed ensemble looks and performs like XX1 - but at a significantly lower retail price.



SRAM released its second-tier eleven speed group this summer and it's called X01. While the release was anticipated by most in the industry, the trickle-down of XX1 to SRAM's more affordable ensembles has taken much longer than expected. We saw X01 at the Lapierre 2014 product launch in Chatel, France, where SRAM said that the official X01 release would be announced within a few days.

SRAM X01 Crankset

The aluminum X-Sync crankset uses a 94-millimeter bolt circle and will fit many bash guards. Like XX1, X01 chainrings use SRAM's profiled teeth that interlock with the chain's side-plates and help to keep the chain on when the pace is furious. X01 also needs a dedicated 11-speed chain, and it gets a slightly heavier one than XX1, but with the addition of a super-durable hard-chrome finish.



SRAM's X01 'X-Sync' crank is forged aluminum, with a larger-than-XX1, 94-millimeter bolt circle. SRAM says that the X01 cranks weigh 150 grams more than the carbon fiber XX1 (800 grams with BB). The good news is that the X01 crank will accept conventional bash rings, with the not-so good news being that the smallest sprocket that SRAM will offer in X01 is a 30 tooth (XX1 can handle a 28 tooth). For 29er riders, this means that X01 will not provide XX1's stump-puller low gear for extended climbing up steep, technical trails. That said, the 30-tooth chainring will provide low enough gearing to make almost all 27.5 and 26-inch wheel owners happy.

SRAM X01 Rear derailleur

X01's 'X-Horizon' rear derailleur can be had with an aluminum or a carbon cage, and it shares both XX1's zero-slant parallelogram, and its Type-2 clutch system. The cassette is new for X01 and while it has the same gear ratios as XX1, the X01 cassette will be hard-plated with a black surface treatment and will weigh 275 grams compared to XX1's 260 grams. XX1 cassettes are designated XG1199, and the X01 is XG1195.



SRAM X01 Cassette

Like XX1, the X01 cassette requires the new XD freehub design, which is readily available from top wheel and hub makers now. Production X01 cassettes will be all black with a special surface treatment.



SRAM X01 Shifter

Shifters are available in trigger or GripShift, with both items being nearly exact copies of XX1, which means that the triggers are Matchmaker compatible and the thumb lever is angle-adjustable. Both shift options will interchange with XX1.



SRAM's prices are not available at this time, but we anticipate X01 to be competitive with Shimano XT. Lapierre with be spec'ing X01 on its 2014 trail and enduro models which will be arriving later this season, so it shouldn't take long for SRAM's more affordable one-by-eleven group to hit the aftermarket. Now, the question is: when will SRAM kick down its eleven speed one-by to X9 and X7? The answer to that is in the cassette. The lengthy machine time required to produce SRAM's 11-speed cassette makes it quite expensive. So far, they have not figured a way to produce a value-priced cassette, but Red never sleeps. Expect more announcements this year..


271 Comments

  • 87 7
 Looks awesome! Hopefully not too long until we get an X9 version too...
  • 21 0
 I could go for a x9 level one, for thous of us that don't have a laugh on money .
  • 4 2
 Hopefully it will be reasonably priced
  • 9 2
 That's the point ... Isn't it
  • 78 14
 500 speed and 39er DH bikes soon to follow...
  • 7 5
 "X01 to be competitive with Shimano XT" So is it going to replace X9?
  • 37 0
 omg, look at those lovely flowers!!!!
  • 6 3
 @ nzobust - I was thinking the same thing. I'm starting to lose track of Srams hierarchy of components.
  • 4 2
 Not only is it cheaper, but from the looks of it it seems like X01 is more burly than XX1, similar to the way X0 is more burly than XX. It's gonna be sweet because it will give bigger bikes more capability in terms of pedaling efficiency and a wider range of gears, while remaining sleek, compact and aesthetically pleasing.
  • 5 3
 Hopefully it will come to X9 soon as from what I can tell X0 is just a rip off in the 10 speed version anyway. Identical in all ways to X9 except 15g lighter and they charge £110 MORE for it. It's crazy that anyone would buy it over X9 really.
  • 3 4
 Get the X0 version on your new bike this year and by the time the cassette wears out you can replace it with an X9 11 speed cassette.
  • 7 11
flag ninjatarian (Jun 26, 2013 at 17:16) (Below Threshold)
 But the XO shifter isn't 11 speed...
  • 5 0
 @samsemtex to answer your question, carbon. X0 has carbon cranks, carbon derailleur cage...
  • 3 1
 Well if carbon only saves you 15g then what is the point of it? I have X0 derailleur and the derailleur cage has seemingly deformed itself (no idea how as it didnt get hit in a crash). If it was aluminium I could bend it back to shape as its carbon it's just fit for the bin.

15 grams is a completely negligible weight saving.
  • 4 0
 SRAM's prices are not available at this time, but we anticipate X01 to be competitive with Shimano XT.
What??? Looking at online pricing, X0 and XT are not close. XT is much closer to X9 pricing.
  • 3 0
 @samsemtex: like a Coke can, aluminum only gets weaker if you 'bend it back'. If you can get a few more rides on it, consider yourself lucky. Time to order a new derailleur. BTW, if your cage is bent, you or someone else hit it. Carbon fibre (or aluminum derailleurs) do not spontaneously deform.
  • 1 0
 @Reformed Roadie, while performance wise and individual component wise, X0 is more similar to XTR, bear in mind with this groupset that there are less pieces; no front derailleur, etc. Also the Aluminium Crank arms should be cheaper than the 2x10 carbon X0's.
  • 6 9
 Why the hell did I get neg propped? XO isn't 11 speed, it's 9 or 10. XO1 is 11 speed.
  • 1 0
 @Captain Snappy, yes it will get weaker if you keep bending it back. But it will still last for quite some time. In fact it may last for a long long time. The X0 will never give you the chance to find out how long it would last after bending it back. I still stand by thinking it's utterly stupid to spend £110 extra for a 15g weight saving.
  • 1 0
 I was looking forward to this, at the moment I have a full 2x10 XO set but I'm only using the bigger 38T ring so this would be a reasonable upgrade, but it's quite disappointing the cranks aren't made of carbon as my current XO cranks...
  • 84 5
 Lets go Shimano, WTF are you waiting for?
  • 40 15
 people to get bored of srams pricing and reliability and to come back to shimano, and they're probably doing a group like this they're just taking their sweet time with it as usual to make sure their isn't too many issues so they can keep their reputation
  • 18 31
flag bjorntsc (Jun 26, 2013 at 10:42) (Below Threshold)
 If you want cheap, shimano isn't your option.
  • 49 65
flag Protour (Jun 26, 2013 at 10:51) (Below Threshold)
 The 1 x 11 makes so many compromises in gearing and sound drivetrain engineering principles I doubt Shimano will make the jump since the Japanese have higher standards. Hopefully they are working on something even better.
  • 32 1
 Protour - see your point about the gearing. Could you expand re compromises about engineering principles?
  • 35 3
 The real question is, why aren't SRAM making a wide ratio 10spd (say 11-40) or 11spd 11-42 cassette that fits non-XD hubs and is made in a more conventional manner, like a PG990 only with more gears. They're giving up easy sales, instead being overly complex and expensive for the sake of what? A marketing guy's e-peen? By all means they can keep the powerdome parts for XX1/XX/Red level stuff, but lets have some normal tech for normal people SRAM, they won't care about 100g extra weight if they get to keep their hubs and £200+ quid in their pocket.
.
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Mr Cunninghame, 94mm bcd? Do you mean 104mm bcd instead? 94 sounds a bit odd if SRAM are selling that as fitting lots of bash guards.
  • 47 11
 I have never had a problem with Sram.
  • 11 9
 Shimano are working on electric gears for mtb bikes which might be out next year. (It's in MBUK haha)
  • 33 19
 Shimano for life
  • 5 13
flag sladevallydh (Jun 26, 2013 at 11:15) (Below Threshold)
 I hope that was a lie and that their working on hydraulic shifting instead,
  • 25 1
 I have heard rumours of a xtr level internally geared hub. I believe shimano wanted to buy rolhoff at one point, they said no. I believe that is where the future is. If they can get the weight down, it will trump srams 1x11 for years to come.
  • 23 7
 That's exactly right. Classic Shimano. When it comes out you know it will blow this away.
  • 17 2
 @Fix-the-spade... I'm pretty sure he meant 94mm. The smallest ring you can do with a 104 circle without offset spacing (as Raceface does with its narrow-wide 30T) is 32T. Any smaller and the crank spider arms and mounting bolts protrude into the space the chain wants to go on the teeth. With 94mm you can go as small as a 29T (which gives the aftermarket something to make also). Its easier to retool the manufacture of bash guards around a 94mm bolt pattern than mess with chainlines by offsetting a 30T ring just to keep a 104 circle. As to the 11 speed cassette fitting in the normal freehub, shimano will likely do that with the next redesign of XTR now that DuraAce has gone to 11 speeds in back. Traditionally D.A. gets something and then XTR gets it the year after, or vice versa. XTR went first with splined bottom brackets and external bottom brackets. D.A. went first with 11 speeds so....


@leelau... shimano continues to resist carbon cranksets for example, because while you can do all manner of expensive overbuilding to make them durable (as Raceface does with Next and Six), its far simpler and cheaper to forge a crank in aluminium, and pretty much nobody in the bike world has more experience with forging parts than shimano does. They were the first to hollow-forge crank arms for example and now you can get that feature down to the Deore/Tiagra level. Who else hollow forges crankarms from other brands ? Remember at the time shimano started selling hollowtech cranks at the Deore LX price level, Raceface was making aluminium cranks with cosmetic carbon fiber stickers for three times the price tag.
  • 17 2
 100% agree with THE-GUNT, I have never had an issue with X9.
  • 8 2
 Sorry I'm mistaken, it was in my mbr magazine that it talks about Shimano electric gearing if that's the reason why I've been neg propped. But it is true, if you don't agree, buy the July 2013 mbr magazine, it's in there Smile
  • 10 3
 shimano is actually very cheap, it's cheaper to buy one gruppo then to buy 2-3 replacements each time, at least that's how it is in road, my X9 and X7 has been hell compared to my saint though
  • 9 2
 @deeeight



agreed: nobody makes better crank sets than Shimano (or front derailleurs for that matter..)

their Hollowtech II cranksets are simply, sublime examples of leading industrial design and manufacturing prowess, like a Thomson X4 stem Wink
  • 5 21
flag elanto (Jun 26, 2013 at 13:30) (Below Threshold)
 Always been a SRAM guy, hate the non responsive shitmano groupsets
  • 18 22
flag Protour (Jun 26, 2013 at 13:44) (Below Threshold)
 Weaknesses of 1 x 11 are that hanger alignment issues more likely an issue when you have tighter 11 speed spacing. The longer rear derailleur is more likely to be hit and damaged by rocks. The chainline is drastically worse than a 2 x system, which will result in quicker chain wear, quicker cassette wear, quicker chainring wear, and more shifting issues, such as the popping sound XX1 derailleurs are known for. It is probably unlikely they will ever be able to manufacture an inexpensive yet also reliable 11-42 cassette so it is impossible to produce it for an entry level or even mid level group. Having only one chainring up front and no bash guard means your ride is over if you bash it against a rock and severely damage it. Having only one ring up front means it gets worn prematurely compared to 2 x systems, so you may as well replace that expensive chainring when you replace the expensive cassette.
  • 2 0
 Well, don't forget that this exist(ed)s:

shop.sunrisecyclery.com/item-picture/74452/picture

The thing is for me is, why don't Shimano make carbon XTR pedals like they do with Dura Ace and even Ultegra?
  • 7 0
 I've run SRAM 1x10 for the past few years and always liked it a lot. When I ran it with a clutch derailier I've always removed to lower roller on my chainguide because I've never liked the resistance or noise. The 32front 36rear lowest gear is a little bit tall on my 29er trailbike but I can ride most hills and like it cause it makes me work a bit harder. On my 7" freeride bike I run the same gearing but with shimano zee. Have to say that I've never wanted a lower gear than the 32,36 with 26inch wheels. Even with slow tires on downhill rims on flat pedals with bulky knee pads the lowest gear is very much a sit and winch gear and that another lower gear would be useless.
  • 7 5
 Boner
  • 5 0
 Also, shimano Zee has amazing performance for the money. I was a sram faithful but the Zee has just blown my expectations out of the water. I don't ever see my self wanting more from a drivetrain. If this drivetrain could somehow be protected from the elements I would ride it till I can't ride no more. Its the middle of winter here in nz and I do get sick of cleaning my gears!
  • 7 2
 2x has better chain and cassette life.... 1x has one less derailleur and shifter, that's the point. :/

And the author clearly states the crank is bash compatible. Get off the lager protour Blank Stare
  • 5 0
 If Shimano is making a geared hub, why not just get on a gearbox standard bandwagon and make the whole internal gearing properly? Having a bunch of weight on the rear axle is just stupid. Plus with a frame standard you have a lot more freedom when it comes to the gearbox design.
  • 4 1
 @jackclark89.... scratches and impacts is why... carbon fiber is even LESS tolerant of scratches and nicks than aluminium alloys are. You scratch an aluminium part, it creates a stress riser than eventually grows into a crack which depending on the thickness of the part, could grow a long time before you notice it (when cleaning the mud off your bike) or it affects the ride of the bike (such as a cracking growing down a head tube of the frame which causes the headset cups to loosen and spin in the frame). That's all well and good but with CF parts... scratches which lead to stress risers lead to cracks that develop and then fail spontaneously with little warning usually. Its one of the reasons for bolt torques on stem faceclamp bolts being so critical with carbon bars and not having any sharp edges to the stem face plates. A sharp edge which cracks into the carbon, an over tightened bolt and WHAMMO...

Mountain bike cranks tend to get run into the ground a lot... no matter how smooth or careful you are, the arm ends in particular show signs of contact. Road cranks tend to get less of this sort of abuse. Shimano has restricted their mountain carbon fiber use to things like derailleur cages, E-type mounting brackets, chainring reinforcements and the like. Things unlikely to be struck with any real force or against anything like rocks.
  • 1 0
 where would you put carbon on mtb pedals? sure the cages could be carbon but it'd still be lighter to not run cages... carbon xtr trail pedals would be sick though if you were sponsored and could get a new set every time you clipped a pedal
  • 4 0
 Deeeight:
I'm not really sure why people stress about carbon cranks. My Spesh Enduro came with Sram carbon cranks and after a season of Whistler and North Shore they look like they've been mauled by a pack of feral dogs. But they haven't missed a beat! Solid, quiet and cool looking. Sweet!
  • 16 2
 Protour, get your facts straight. 1) the space between gears is not tighter on the 11 speed xx1 or xx0, the 42 tooth ring on the back is dished toward the spokes, and the new lockring system puts the 10 tooth closer to the frame (there is plenty of spacing with 142 rear ends). 2) the derailleur cage is shorter than a GS XTR derailleur so is LESS likely to bash off rocks. 3) The single chainring statistically creates a closer to ideal chainline more of the time than a double AND doesn't create the very large extremes that can occur with a double which is where the real damage can occur). Shimano designed their doubles for the big ring to be utilised at least 75% of the time, and the teeth have to be smaller in order for shifting to work (ie they are already half worn compared to xx1), plus they are much pricier to replace than a 32 tooth XX1 chainring. Sram derailleurs have roller bearing clutches (type 2) which are essentially maintenance free compared to Shimano's 'plus' friction clutches. I came off two XTR groups (triple then double) and then on to XX... Been racing elite mens on XX1 for two months, heres a phrase for what it is: Ride changing, epic performing, uncomprimising, durable as hell, light as feather, GLORIOUSNESS. Also I've been a professional mechanic for 4 years.
  • 4 1
 Haven't tried the new shimano drive train stuff, but as little as a year ago I learned that shimano makes great brakes and sram makes great derailleur and shifters. That being said... This 11 speed stuff seems a little ridiculous, I don't want to see a 12 speed setup in a few years either. At that point I'd rather see a perfected version of the shimano alfine internal gear hub. Preferably in some kind of setup like the zerode gearbox system.
  • 2 0
 @Protour...

Expensive chainring? My racerace 1x10 chainring was like $32. That's cheap.
  • 8 2
 Shimano brakes are hands down the best brakes on the market from basically every point of view (except a little weight). But this BS about gearboxes and internally geared hubs, holy. Have any of you actually held an Alfine hub in your hands? how does more than three times the weight of an XX1 cassette and derailleur sound? No joke look it up, not to mention the massive efficiency losses in internally geared hubs and gearboxes. How does losing more than 5% of your power output sound? Also, Shimano DOES NOT warranty Alfine hubs for offroad use, why? because if you bend the axle even the slightest amount the hub stops shifting completely, and having one of those bitches rebuilt by Shimano... start selling your organs to pay for that. It's hard to believe that this myth of BB gearbox and hub based shifting for performance applications continues. I suppose if you give someone a working Alfine bike they could be forgiven for not realising how ridiculously intricate the inside of it is, give that same person a parts diagram of even a 3 speed Alfine hub and they will curse and call it black magic.
  • 3 2
 Hence why I said I'd like to see a perfected version. It's not there yet. And I doubt your body is sensitive enough to detect a 5% change in your power output. And since when has 5% of anything been considered massive? Automatic car transmissions were at one point inferior to a manual and few people bought them. Nowadays manual transmissions are the fewer of the two. Everything starts somewhere.
  • 2 1
 Derailler-based shifting ALSO has losses in power, mostly due to the tortuous path through the jockey wheels (hence Contador using custom derailler cages with MASSIVE jockey wheels to reduce power loss). You may say an IGH loses 5%, but it is not 5% less than a derailler set-up, more like 2%.

When Mr and Mrs Rohloff finally die and the company is sold to someone who cares about moving forward and they make a lighter IGH, I'll be first in line. Stronger and longer lasting chains, cogs and chainrings shielded from mud that last one hundred thousand miles? Take my money!

At the moment I am voting with my wallet for Shimano derailler shifting, but only because it is the (far) best of a mediocre bunch.

We often argue on the site about the similarities of other, especially motocross, technology that can be paralled with MTB technology. Someone please tell me any other real-world application that changes power-to-output ratios using a plate of different sized cogs and a chain that moves across them.
  • 2 0
 @Protour, Your information on Chain wear couldn't be more incorrect.
The biggest wear on any chain is related to front shifting. Think about what happens to your chain when your trying to shift from a smaller chainring to a larger chainring. Your pushing your chain into the pickup guides. Those pickup guides are cutting into your chain overtime you shift. Chain are not designed to move sideways.
  • 1 0
 I think that shimano is going to hold off a bit on the 1x11 train to see where it goes in the industry (BTW shimano is working on somthing really cool that will blow your minds can't quite say what it is yet however). I think that 1x11 will leave its mark on the enduro world but i think that most xc riders want less change when shifting gears to maintain a better cadence therefore will be sticking with 2x10 systems. 1x11 really is going to hit it off in the enduro side due to the fact that you don't need to keep as much of a even pedal cadence. 1x11 is really a cool concept and very interesting but i think its going to find a proper place in the cycling world but i don't think it's gunna take off and take over the industry though. kinda anxious to try out the xo11 to see how it compares to the xx.
  • 3 0
 i am sooo hoping shimano keeps the 10 gears and just adds more range by new cassettes.
  • 1 0
 @ rumblefish. I have a friend deep in the industry, and has said the same thing to me, but he won't divulge. shimano must have a scary wet work department that nobody's gonna release info on this lol. now that SRAM have come up with this new chainring system and clutch mechs are in full swing now (pardon the pun), i can't imagine what they are developing. would be very surprised if it was a internal gears......maybe some kind of variation on the transmission chain. feck knows. can't wait though!!!
  • 1 0
 "We often argue on the site about the similarities of other, especially motocross, technology that can be paralled with MTB technology. Someone please tell me any other real-world application that changes power-to-output ratios using a plate of different sized cogs and a chain that moves across them."

That's powered by humans...
  • 2 1
 Shimano is about one third cheaper than the compareable Sram-product over here. So I'll wait till shimano uts something out. I hear they have a patent on a 14-gear cassette..
  • 2 0
 I'm still running an old 3x9, though except for the beginning of the season when my legs are weak I ride it almost exclusively as a 1x9. I'm not sure how any other 1x setup would have any different of a chainline. As far as the wear goes, while the rest of my bike may be covered in dried mud, I'm more than a bit OCD with keeping the drivetrain spotless and well lubed. The cassette is a PG990 from 2005, and it still runs perfectly, even on new chains. Preventively replacing your chain and not running a chain and gears caked with grit-encrusted old lube are the ways to not end up dropping $300+ on a new drivetrain. Learned that lesson 20 years ago :/

If I can swing it this season I'll be converting to a dedicated 1x9. Would love the simplicity, weight savings, and trail reliability of not dropping my chain. And if I have to occasionally get off and push, that's also fine with me...
  • 1 0
 Stick with 1x9 and 1x10.
I have never needed more than 34:34 on my enduro.
Who wants to go slower uphill than you would be walking anyway (32:42 way too low).
Still want a 7-speed micro drive dh specific derailleur!
  • 5 0
 Wide gearing 1x11 setups are not about people like you bjorntsc though... the whole move to the 10-42 1x11 stuff, or before than when 2x10 speed came about with11-36 back ends, was for XC riders mainly (whether they're doing it on ridiculight hardtails or 5" travel marathon full suspensions). That other minority elements of the sport adopt it also really isn't a concern to the major drivetrain manufacturers. All the gravity-oriented and jumping folk in the world combined don't represent more than 1 or 2% of the annual sales to companies like SRAM and Shimano. DH races may attract more spectators to watch them (who are mostly there for crashes, same reason people watch Nascar.... 500 miles of cars going in a left turn really isn't that exciting otherwise) but in terms of actual participants, XC racing still attracts tons more participants, and drives a lot more sales to everyday consumers. The 32:42 low gear isn't for people using chair lifts to get to the top of the hill, its for people who are using their own muscles to do it. And we outnumber the chairlift riders 50 to 1.
  • 2 5
 1 x 11 should never be referred to as "wide gearing".

If you run anything bigger than a 32 up front you don't have the gearring that a double does for all day rides with big climbs. And if you ride anything smaller then you have to coast on the fast downhills cause you are spun out. So on both the uphills and downhills you will be getting passed by people with front derailleurs because they have "real world" wide gearing and are able to pedal while you cannot.
I passed someone yesterday hiking up with their 1x setup while I easily spun up in my granny gear. No comments I just smiled

SRAM has made a $400 cassette "for the people". Pfffft!
  • 2 0
 Protour I would love to spin past you on my 1x9 Fuel Razz
  • 2 0
 Who pays full price for bike parts?
  • 2 0
 Passing someone in the granny gear of your Volvo doesn't really matter to us who really ride bicycles, and not just talk about riding them proputz.
  • 2 2
 Darkstar, you probably could if you ride a Fuel, I'm not a super fast climber but I enjoy it more than pushing up.
  • 2 0
 I climb my Remedy with a 1x10 too Smile But I know what you mean, I hate getting off the bike. To be honest I prob don't have the same extended climbs you have where you are from. I do just fine where I live and love the simplicity and chain retention qualities of my 1x setups. I at times have to stand out of the saddle, ill admit that, but it just gives me stronger legs.
  • 47 1
 "Why don't they have a 4-ring setup so that they only need a 7-cog cassette in the back? Or how about a 6-ring setup with a 5-cog cassette? Why does a 1x11 have only one ring and 11 cogs? Why can't it be a 1x12 or 1x10? Why not put a chainguide on it that has WiFi so I can see if it's working using an iPhone app?" and other minutiae.

Wow, people really get their panties in a bunch whenever gear is released that doesn't meet THEIR needs directly. If 1x11 isn't for you, then 1x11 isn't for you.
  • 6 0
 you sir, made me laugh. props!!
  • 4 23
flag Protour (Jun 26, 2013 at 13:49) (Below Threshold)
 If you don't want to read about it's weaknesses and inadequacies then don't read the comments and stick to brown-nosing Bicycling Magazine reviews
  • 10 0
 We're on pinkbike. Literally every product announcement review is filled with people complaining about every aspect of whatever the article is about, or filled with memes or people arguing over things not even relevant to the products.

I come here for the content that they put out. If I want a discussion on the products I go to vital or MTBR or even sicklines. This place is just (and I hate this phrase) hater central.
  • 1 0
 That's been tried, it adds weight and requires wider pedal Q-factors spreading your feet apart with wider chainlines. It also requires new front derailleurs and front shifters.
  • 13 0
 11 chainrings with one cog? shut up and take my money!
  • 1 0
 I see your point sir, and I definitely think I could benefit from the 1x11 gearing range. But the size of the biggest cog on that cassette really makes me wonder what kind of chain growth problems will occur with it. I could be wrong, but it seems like there will have to be a compromise between suspension travel and design vs gearing range with this setup. Making this a tough setup on the style of bike that could most benefit from this gearing range.... The all mountain / enduro bike. I wonder how many frames can actually run this setup without any issues whatsoever.
  • 3 0
 richwantsout, you have inspired me. Make a suspension platform that changes depending on what cog you are in. When you are in the little cogs you need to take up more chain, but you are probably headed downhill. So the platform slackens off and it also takes up some of the chain. When you are in the big cogs, you are probably going uphill, and the platform increases and steepens the head angle to make for better climbing. I think it could be utilized with Waki's sphincter probe connected to the dropper post - when you pucker up the seat drops. And I only add that so that no-one thinks I'm being serious about the paragraph above.
  • 1 0
 Ha! That's great. :-) you got me Rollin with that sphincter muscle bit
  • 2 0
 Cyrix is right. It's out of control. And it's not thoughtful debate like it used to be (many many moons ago). The best thing Pinkbike could do right now is shut down the comments. Because these kids can't handle it. But they won't because it brings traffic. Problem is it's at the cost of integrity. Sad.
  • 14 0
 Said this before and im sayin it again. How bout 11 speeds up front (transmission) and one gear out back? derailleurs suck! 300$ cassettes? 200$ derailleurs? You have to buy a special freewheel? All these parts will wear out and have to be replaced.
Use a cassette style tranny like the one Honda made and Sam hill rode. A housed transmission will last significantly longer than an exposed derailleur.
  • 4 0
 @Sshredder yes exactly this. I have been saying this for a looong time too. All of this additional mass that could be moved to the BB and protected would be a big plus IMO. Conventional cassette in a can like the RN-01 might not be the answer, but for the love of jeebus please put it all at the BB!
  • 3 2
 These options are available, but they don't sell the best. Why? Why didn't the hammerschmidt catch on?

The simple truth is that gears aren't as efficient as a chain. Even SS belt drivetrains don't transfer energy as efficiently. The hammerschmidt (I have one) is only 95% efficient, and that 4-5% loss is very noticeable on the trail.
  • 2 0
 Sam hill on Honda? I think you mean Matti or Greg Sir.
I'll get back off my high horse now
  • 2 2
 Single speed drive trains are less efficient for power transfer and mechanical efficiency how hamncheez? I can show you my physics summation to counter that.
  • 2 0
 Spthomas, he said SS belt drivetrains aren't as efficient as chains... flexing a belt takes more energy than flexing a chain, even a 2 year old could feel it. Do you have a physics summation to counter that?
  • 1 1
 The hammerschmidt wasn't that innovative really, it was just a fancy dual ring setup. As cool as it was it doesn't get rid of a rear derailleur. And I think that that's the thing most people would like to see. Ditch the vulnerable rear derailleur with the cassette and move all that weight closer to the center of the bike's gravity. Now you have a more balanced machine without any vulnerable parts hanging off the thing waiting to get taken out. Not to mention the suspension design possibilities that are now possible when you don't have to worry about chain growth issues.
  • 1 0
 I'm all out of sorts today and missed the belt drive bit....going just a little crazy
  • 1 0
 PS i love my hammerschmidt, but really a 1x10 is enough for 95% of what I ride.
  • 13 0
 Never thought I'd hear the phrase X0 as a 'for the masses' gruppo.
  • 1 0
 yea, everything I've heard is that it's a, what, $1000 gruppo? some people's bikes didn't cost that much (used, obviously.)
  • 1 0
 Yeah seriously... I could afford X0 but I don't bother with anything over X9, I just don't believe the premium is worth it. 130$ difference for the rear derailleurs (more than twice the price of X9) for an economy of 20g? I'll pass.
  • 12 4
 Yes! Make X71 and front mechs will never return. Now... Can we luddite weirdos please get a 6 speed DH grouppo? Then even weirder blokes will convert it for trail use?
  • 12 22
flag Enduro27 (Jun 26, 2013 at 10:22) (Below Threshold)
 I prefer 9speed over 10 and 11 for trail and xc use, and I would love to try a 1x6 for trail
  • 16 0
 *faceplam
  • 8 2
 Just do what I do and take a 10spd 11-36T XT cassette and take off the large spider with the biggest 3 cogs and run spacers instead. Saves 200g and you still get the nice big jumps that a mountain cassette offers so you don't need as many clicks as a road cassette when looking for a better gear. The saint derailleur has long enough limit screws to make it work as a 7 speed. What you want already exists, and it doesn't need a special shifter, chain, cassette or derailleur. Pic here... www.pinkbike.com/photo/9464180
  • 2 1
 ^ What he said, you can do this yourself. The amount of people who would actually buy a 6 speed DH groupo would be very small. Not everyone only rides down.
  • 2 0
 Good job Kramster Smile but I have to ask, why remove gears if what you paid for gives you the accessibility to have them all? It's not like you can buy half a cassette. It would make more sense if you could fit this to a hub with wider spoke flanges to create a stronger wheel build. But it's certainly a good response to Waki Wink
  • 1 1
 if you look at the demo replica, you would see that there is a 7speed downhill group Wink
  • 7 2
 6 or 7 - whatever. Just give us wider cog spacing for improved actuation. If you knock around a 10sp rear mech a bit, you will never get it to work well. 9sp has a bigger error margin, thus rear mech changing is not necessary as often to get decent shifting. And that applies both to 10sp SRAM and Shimano - I used both. In DH it might not be that much of an issue but for xc and trail riding in a varied terrain it really is crucial for shifting to be damn right.
  • 3 0
 Or you could happily run nine SPD and not bother with the first three??
  • 2 0
 I agree bluechair84, a wider hub for less dish would be ideal. I removed the gears because it lets you run a shorter chain for less slop and it takes 200g off unsprung weight yet allows me to keep the gear spacing I like. I've tried road cassettes and don't like how close the jumps are so I don't see them as an option for me.
Next I'm going to look into modifying it further by removing the stops on the 11T cog (or maybe a 12 if there's not enough material on the 11T to stop it from bending under torque) so I can slide it onto the driver and use a spacer on that side of the cassette before the lockring so my 7 gears are a little more centered on the driver for a better chainline in those gears.
  • 4 0
 It's not about having less gears for its own sake or weight savings, it's about durability... A cheap 8-speed drivetrain can last longer than the best 9-speed and costs much less so I'm afraid to think how often would I have to change an 11-speed chain. A 10-speed casette with 4 cogs removed is still a 10-speed casette, it just has 4 cogs removed.
  • 6 0
 Waki, I don't think your analysis is correct. 9sp shimano has a different pull ratio to 10sp, and in fact 10sp is less sensitive to cable stretch. It's not about number of gears, it's about pull ratio. And before someone says 10sp chains are not as strong, consider physics first and the implications of shorter pins when all other dimensions are equal. To get a stronger chain you have to increase the thickness of the plates and diameters of the pins, increasing weight. I used to have to change cables all the time back when 7 and 8 speed were around. Now I run them til they snap and my gears shift fine. Can't remember the last time I broke a chain either, even though I ride far more now than I ever used to.
  • 6 0
 @kramster... they also last longer in simple stretch wear...

www.bikerumor.com/2013/02/19/bikerumor-shimano-chainwear-challenge-the-results
  • 1 0
 Why? Because the chain is narrower? I'm no engineer but I would guess that isn't significant.
  • 1 0
 Yeah, the sheet is thinner and thus it should be wearing faster. @deeeight, thanks for the link, interesting test! However, I haven't noticed this relation between 8 and 9-speed drivetrains. I'm curious if 10-speed chains are harder to snap too.
  • 1 0
 kramster: cable pull is one thing, how much that pull translates to rear mech movement is another. the wider the movement the better - higher the tolerance. It is obviously not the only part of equation and smooth gearing ratio is another, so is the chain wear, risk to break the chain on too steep shifts. I am yet to setup a 10sp rear mech so it works as great on entire range of the cassette as a 9sp one. I have not managed to do it either with Shimano nor SRAM. I get perfect shifting either in the top or bottom part within 0,5 turn of shifters adjuster barell. But there's always a problem on the opposite side.

Is it just me or hollow pin chains break more often? I had very few issues with normal pin chains and I broke the two different hollow pin ones three times already.
  • 1 0
 So what you are asking for is a 6 speed with a chain with longer pins and thicker plates which is obviously heavier. Do you want the cogabduct chainring to be thicker too, or just more slop in the drivetrain? But you run a weak hollow pin chain to save weight and then complain that it's not strong enough, are you sure you'd buy what you are asking for?

I've got 10sp on three bikes and they all shift fine. I remember 8sp being a nightmare to keep shifting well and wanted to go back to 7 at the time but its way less hassle now. Are you mixing chain and cassette brands? Are you using a hanger alignment tool before you set it up? Something is wrong here.
  • 2 0
 Autocorrect fail: cogabduct should read 'cogs and'

Brooce, I just measured a 9sp and a 10sp chain with my verniers and the plates are 0.89mm on both. The only difference between the chains are the pins are shorter. This means 10 sp chains are *gasp* stronger. Imagine if the pins were 1 meter long and then imagine if they were 2mm long. Yes, the shorter pins result in a stronger chain as there is less leverage between the pin and the plate.

If you 10sp (and 11) haters don't believe me, or Shimano, or real life results as linked by deeeight, then perhaps you can use physics to explain why a chain with longer pins should be stronger than one with shorter pins, if the pin diameter and plate thickness remains the same (which it does).

And yes, of course Waki, hollow pins are weaker. Do you have to ask? You use broscience to assume a 10sp chain is weaker and wears faster, and all your drivetrain problems come from it being narrower, but fail to see a hollow pin that gets considerable force applied perpendicular to its axis right at both extreme ends of it is weaker than a solid one? Sorry to take the piss, but you gotta stop just making shit up.
  • 1 1
 Well I am not going to buy a hollow-pin chain again, I bought it only because it costed as much as the cheapest one avaliable. My hanger is aligned perfectly. I am mixing chains and cassettes, I for some reason have never ever had any bigger issues with SRAM chains, broke several Shimano chains. At the same time I choose Shimano cassettes as they are cheaper. But thanks - you helped me clarify things a bit: I want a 6-7sp shifter and cassette (12-38 with smaller ratio changes up the top like 24-36 in 4 gears) with 9sp spacing, aaaand a clutch rear mech Big Grin And I want it to work like 9sp X0 shifter/rear mech combo - Cling! clang! clong! No Shimano non-clutch soft waldo
  • 1 0
 Ahh... And please citate me where I wrote that 10sp chain is weaker than any other?
  • 1 0
 I misunderstood your comment " It is obviously not the only part of equation and smooth gearing ratio is another, so is the chain wear, risk to break the chain on too steep shifts." I guess you are saying the chain will break easier and wear faster because the next cog is 0.25mm closer horizontally? I can't say which would be better but if I had to guess I'd say reaching a further distance before aligning with the next cog would promote more wear. But if by steep you mean big jumps in teeth numbers, the higher number of gears allows for closer jumps in that regard too.

Consider this... if you are going to run 6 speeds over a small range for DH, what would you think would be best?
1. A narrow chain which you seem to agree is stronger, along with a narrow cassette which allows for better chainline at the extremes. Lighter chain, lighter cassette.
2. A wider chain, bigger distance to travel, a wider cassette with more offset from centreline of the chainring at the extremes. Heavier chain, heavier cassette.

Considering people will sacrifice everything from suspension performance to brake and tire performance to save a few grams, I don't think your idea would sell, considering 10sp chains are stronger and appear to be lasting longer than 9sp and shifting performance in my experience has been as good or better than it was on 9sp.
  • 8 2
 Love my XX1, and would have got this more affordable version if was available back in January. Can't wait until Shimano gets tired of bleeding high-end drivetrain sales to SRAM so that we get some more competition. So glad to lose the front derailleur finally (and with almost no gear-range sacrifice).
  • 3 1
 what front ring do you typically run? The XO1 only goes down to 30, while your XX1 does 28.. We have some steep climbs down here which make me want to keep a 2x set up.
  • 18 5
 As 1x setups have become more popular the last few years I've seen more people hiking up steep sections than ever before. I thought the point was to pedal a trail bike? I think we need to rename the granny gear the toughman's gear, cause the 1x riders are the ones who are hiking up like granny would.

The front mech is going nowhere, it's essential for all-day marathon rides, as well as the steepest climbs.
  • 3 0
 Agreed Protour! 3rd season on my Hammerschmidt, and I still love it Big Grin
  • 2 1
 32 has been great
  • 4 1
 32 on XX1, has given a great spread with both the steep climbs and descents
  • 6 1
 Protour I think it has more to do with individuals fitness levels rather than having to use a granny gear. I personally have no problems getting off and hiking for a spell if the trail gets THAT steep that I get the slow wobbles from no forward momentum. A lot of the guys who originally started using 1x set ups came from a more gravity loving type of riding style and probably share that view.
  • 1 3
 We've had this conversation oodles of times but: when you ride a slacker frame, the lowest gears become useless, because they affect handling too much.
  • 3 0
 I've got good results in some climbing-heaving 50-mile races with the stock 32 up front (29er). If XX1 with a 32 front isn't low enough, then you aren't likely to get a podium or even top 10 in an elite level race anyways. For people who aren't in top racing shape, then a 30 front should do the trick.
  • 1 0
 I LOVE my XX1. I just ordered a race face 34t because the 32 is a little too low. I'd like to work the wide range of the cassette more efficiently.
  • 2 0
 It's more about going down than up for me. I'd rather run a single chain ring and some type of retention system than a dual or even triple. If I've got to do some hiking up for a bit, oh well. Besides.. Have you ever hiked a bike up a steep section of trail for more than a minute or two? It's no easy task, it'll wear you out pretty good. You use different muscles as opposed to pedaling up.
  • 1 0
 I have a 2x10 with a Clutch and a Tensioner and have never dropped a chain on the roughest of downhills. The weight savings would be nice, but other than that there's not much penalty to having the access to lower gearing with the granny. It's good to have on the long steep climbs that tend to come with long steep DH.. Losing the front shifter would leave a prime location for a paddle style seat post lever though. That would be a sweet spot for one of those.
  • 5 1
 Why not just make just have the 3 or 4 smallest rings as one peice to save machining costs, then just construct the rest of the cassette like they make their regular cassettes? (my idea sram if you steal it i'll sue yo' asses!)
  • 3 3
 It wouldn't be strong enough, the biggest cogs in the back would fold over like tacos under heavy torque. I've seen this happen more than a couple times with SRAM 10 speed cassettes, so with the thinner and larger 11 speed cassettes it's even more of an issue. It has to be one piece to be strong enough so it has to be machined.

This is why the price of the cassette isn't going down so get used paying a combined price of almost $500 for the cassette, chain, and chairing every season.
  • 1 0
 uhm, no. you eliminate the first, let's say 3 cogs, and all the floating cogs are 28t and lower. I'm less than convinced those would "fold over" based on the fact that XX1 is the same internal chain width as 10sp, the cogs are just spaced closer. Honestly, I'd be willing to take the chance on the whole thing being pinned together 10sp cogs with smaller spacers, if the cassette cost me less than $100 to replace.

Though honestly, if SRAM really want my money, give me the same range in a 10sp. Make a 10sp straight parallelogram derailleur, and I guarantee it works fine for 90% of riders.
  • 8 0
 I like my 2x9 setup. Simple, cheap and effective.
  • 1 0
 I run 2x9 with the SLX crank set 22-36t and I'm quite happy with the shifting and low wear. I don't see what all the problems with shifting on the front are. I ran a homemade 2x9 24-36t and it was bad for chain suck due to a bad chain line but that taught me how to shift properly at the crank. With the SLX crank set I've tried to see if it would chain suck with too much pedal pressure but it would not. As long as they sell 9 speed components I'll be using them. The salesman at my LBS is 49yrs old and has ridden and raced MTBs most of his life and told me that he never broke a chain until he switched to a 10 speed. My winter bike is an old CCM MTB 7 speed Shimano and still shifts great with the original chain, gear cluster and chain rings. Because there are so many used MTBs out there with very few miles on them for a very good price companies have to keep coming up with new things to sell us whether we need them or not.
  • 3 0
 Since the lowest xx1 28-42 gear is not lighter than a 2x10 lower 22-36 combination I see this 1x11 groups very race or super fit made for. Not for my master B rasta style. Push up??? No way! Go up is good pedaling or with shuttles...
  • 9 6
 Initial reports suggest that the price of the cassette will remain roughly the same as XX1, which is essentially a great big "up yours" by SRAM. The cassette was and remains the biggest point of dispute.
  • 3 2
 That would make no sense. SRAM wouldn't sell any of them.
  • 2 0
 Hah.
  • 1 0
 well the design is pointless - if you want it light it must be cnc'd which means lotsa $$$. if you want it cheap it will weigh like a decent boat anchor. lose/lose
  • 8 2
 Looks great, but just make me a 9spd clutch derailleur please!
  • 2 1
 Plus one for that. I'd love to try a Sram clutch mech but don't want to spend extra money on the full conversion to 10 speed.
  • 2 0
 Protip: The zee clutch much works fine with SRAM 9 speed shifters.
  • 2 0
 yeah I know about that and the .236 spacer. Awesome that someone figured that out, but why don't the manufacturers just make a 9 speed clutch/shadow plus to begin with? I'm sure they'd sell a ton.
  • 1 0
 Isn't the Zee only available in short cage? Could it be used for a 2x9 set up with the largest front ring being 36T?
  • 1 0
 Its available in close (11-2Cool and wide (11-36) ratio. So it can be run with a 1x9
You may get away with a double ring on the front with a close ratio rear cassette.
  • 2 0
 I hope the X9 version has a 11-42 cassette, so that you don't have to buy a new wheel. Would also be nice if the spider for the front chain ring could be purchased seperately and fi onto an existing X0, X9 or S2200 crank set. If they can check those boxes to reduce the price for X9, I am all in!
  • 3 0
 RaceFace and others make chainrings with the narrow/wide pattern that you can use with almost any crankset.
  • 2 3
 You do not have to buy a new wheel to accomodate XX1 or X01 cassette, just a cassette driver body. it is an easy swap.
  • 6 1
 Easy if you have a hub thats compatible with the xd driver
  • 3 0
 @Neverlost. What if you've got a Shimano, Chris King, E Thirteen or some other brand that doesn't drink the kool aid?
  • 1 0
 That's what stopped me from buying the XX1 in the first place. Thinking about it now, I'm glad CK didn't make hub bodies for it. I'm quite happy with my 2x10. It may not be as fancy as the XX1, but it works just as good.
  • 1 0
 There's also availability to consider: it seems people are having a hell of a time actually getting those XD drivers.
  • 1 0
 www.bikerumor.com/2012/12/27/manufacturer-round-up-whos-making-xx1-freehub-bodies

a good article. My money is on them all making one soon. Not sure about availability. I got a few from hope pretty quickly, hopefully you folks can get them too. The huge benefit here is in the crankset/rings though. The Cassette is just a way to make it so that crankset doesn't limit your gear ratios. Good luck!
  • 2 0
 id have to try this drivetrain set up before i switch over to 1x11,say what you want about Shimano ,there ZEE line is awesome! so solid and tuff& not hard on your wallet,love the friction clutch..iv never ran a Sram derailleur because for a shortcage downhill set up ,the price is just way too high for my budget...im open to trying a Sram drivetrain out they sound like they shift like butter on a hot knife i just have never had the capital to get their components.It would be really cool if Sram did a budget line thats actually solid like the Shimano ZEE line or something...i wonder how much that extra gear would help..i think im staying 32t x10,for now. Helmet
  • 1 0
 I'm in the opposite situation. I've had 1x9 sram setups on my DH bikes for 4 years now and so far I can't fault it at all, great shifting, awesome durability. I've never been that satisfied with a sram product. On my AM sled I've been running sram 2x10 x9 for a year now and I could never really get it to work well. Now that I've dropped the chain guide and switched to a x9 type2 rear mech for this year, it's worse than ever and both the shop mechs and I can't seem to be able to figure it out. I've been looking forward to sram releasing a 11x x9 for my AM bike but at this point I'm so frustrated with my sram setup that I think I'll just wait to see shimano's counter argument.
  • 3 1
 fark 11 spd. I don't need a new freehub body and a bunch of 11spd parts. the smallest cog works occasionally when everything is fresh. couple cable changes to keep it working then the spring on the r der doesn't shift it down all the way. do I care? no. 10 spd with clutch and 11-42 or 12-42 for that matter. fkn reinventing the wheel. these engine-in-the-rears piss me off. its takes huge $'s to machine these cassettes? well fkn hello. get a grip
  • 3 1
 Comment after Comment of people who have no idea what they are talking about... XX1 or XO1 are not replacing 1 ring 2 ring or 3 ring set-ups. Its simply expanding the 1 ring setup for people who like the option. No one is going to make you buy one of these. This is simply an expanded offering of what they make. If you like a 1 by 6 or 3 by 10 you can still go get that...
  • 2 1
 my point was there is no other option for 1x to get a 42t large cog in anything less than 11 speed. so, who doesn't know what they are talking about?
  • 2 0
 My only objection is the still £300 cassette, most people go through a cassette in a year even a 1090 or an xtr. And the shifter and deraileur still total another £300 in rrp.
  • 1 0
 I think I will still hang on for an X9 version. Some of us can't afford X0 either. Also, I wish they would make a crankset that could be retroactively applied to running a 1x10 with some of the technology they created from XX1
  • 1 0
 no reason why you can't run a XX1 or X01 crankset with a 10sp drivetrain, lots of people have been doing exactly that. Not to mention all the third parties coming out with narrow/wide chainrings. Works for me, I'd rather have an e.13 Trs crank over the SRAM one any day of the week.
  • 1 0
 I hope I'm the first to say this, because hope is important. Those cranks are fugly. Wow. The spider made them look cheaper than x9 on its own. Like really hideous. Wrong even. At least they muted colors. But yeah - cranks are ugly on purpose I'll bet to push us up to XX1. It looks like that's the only significant difference.
  • 1 0
 So 11x32 maximum speed is 22mph with 26" wheels at a cadence of 90rpm!? That is absolutely useless for everywhere I have ridden which would be nearly every North American mountain bike mecca east and west. How does this make sense to anyone?
  • 1 0
 Question: Why in the mountain bike world does no one sell complete groups? Is it because of all the different specs bb width, cage length, and front derailleurs differences? Or because they can just make more money selling part by part? Merlin Cycles seems to be the only company I know selling mtb group sets. I want to buy group sets and get a little price break.
  • 1 0
 Transmissions on the BB are a better idea, but will never take hold until SRAM or Shimano builds it and gets it OEM spec'd by a major brand on a mainstream bike. But it's all a pipe dream. They could no longer enslave our wallets- forcing us to replace whole groups of parts religiously. One reliable tranny would destroy the part replacement revenue stream, and they'll never make up the difference on a single tranny sale. We stuck with rear mechs for a while.
  • 1 0
 its the same e.tards that trash talk 29ers, trash talk SRAM.

I had years on SRAM stuff and prefer the shifting feel. never had durability issues, and love the carbon cranks. Maintainance was dead simple.

I also like the 2013 XT stuff im running, but its also hit and miss too. Ive had brakes that suck and drive trains that arent quite right. There are many variables involved, and the mechanically retarded, or misinformed haters get it twisted.

Shimano has a long history of dead innovation. But you cant bitch about these companies being bold and trying new things, because they are trying. The bandwagoner brand loyal gear whores ruin these discussions.

Example: ah man FOX sucks, my RP23 bottoms out on drops to flat from 7 feet ah boo hoo. (sarcasm)
  • 1 0
 I'd just like to say, Gearing upgrades are great but the majority of the population would benefit from higher end improvements on low end spec. As only astronauts can afford this at the moment. I run a 2007 xtr rear mech- because it works.
  • 1 0
 Is this really a step forward? I'm running a 1x9 set up and my lowest gear is 22x34 and the highest is about 37x11. I run a hammerschmidt up front so I don't need to worry about chainline issues. I know my set up is heavier but I don't think moving the gears to the back is an answer especially when the spread of gears is getting less.
  • 3 0
 Pricing in on QBP. It's not significantly cheaper. X01, 11 speed for those with only slightly less cash.
  • 4 0
 laaaame.
  • 2 0
 f*ck this, it's all about the 8 speed! New chain and cassette for £20... and if you break a mech it's down the bike jumble for an old Deore one for about a fiver...
  • 1 0
 Damn that's pretty! I'd like to it to see how it feels. Till then I'm loving my X9 and hammerschmidt. For now I'm a Sram man, man and for a good trail pounding you gota drop the hammer
  • 1 1
 This to me is a great idea because I work in a bike shop and I see, and have to adjust and fix, a lot of front derailers and while I do not have the some experience that the other shop workers have we can all agree that front derailers Suck, are either way too finicky or simply don't work. So from the stand point of me or anyone who has ever had to try and fix a front derialer this is music to my ears.
  • 1 0
 What shop is this? Remind me not to send anyone there...in 20 years of wrenching for shops, friends, and myself, I can say that front derailleurs are not at all hard to set up properly whether it is direct-mount, e-type, top-pull, bottom-pull, etc.
  • 1 0
 i would love to have these parts because when ,my bike breaks i either try to fix it myself and make it a hundred times worse or have to send away for a part half way across the world
  • 3 0
 Hmm curious to see overall price and weight comparison to xx1...
  • 2 1
 There are other solutions out there which are not that expensive. For example look at the Canfield Bros microDrive hub thats lets you run a 9 tooth ring out back...
  • 2 0
 FINALLY a 11 speed sram group that is called 11 i can now go back to what i was doing before
  • 3 0
 I'll freely accept your 2x10 set ups, thanks!
  • 1 1
 Can anyone tell me why a 1x11 should be more expensive than a 3x9? Can the cassette be THAT hard to make? X0 cost shitloads, now X1 will cost even more. Seriously, someone is laughing all the way to the bank.
  • 1 0
 Its mostly machined down from a single billet of steel. there is about 3 hours of work involved in whittling a block of steel down to a 260g 10-42t cassette. a 9 speed cassette can be stamped and pinned together in a matter of minutes for next to nothing.
They haven't yet figured out a reasonable way to make a cheap 10-42 cassette that doesn't weigh a ton. give it several years and we'll have a cheap 11 speed drivetrain Smile
  • 1 0
 im waiting for the day we all go back to pennyfarthing bikes with half a front cog, probably carbon and 36 cogs on the back..
  • 1 0
 Well yes that's the "Half by 36 drivetrain" isn't it?
  • 1 0
 just seen more on the x01 including working chain Gide option www.bikerumor.com/2013/06/24/spotted-sram-x01-in-the-wild
  • 1 0
 Shimano/SRAM forever = Microsoft/Apple forever (or insert any other lame giant mega corp that people blindly pledge allegiance to)
  • 1 0
 That said, I think the stuff looks pretty bad ass.
  • 1 0
 Although it looks very nice I'll say it loud: Fcuk external MTB drivetrain! Gearbox is the answer! For the time being I'm waiting for Rohloff SpeedHub to get cheap.
  • 1 0
 Holy Fail! on the all-black cassette--aesthetically speaking and weight perception, don't do it SRAM. Shiny silver cassettes always look better & faster!
  • 1 0
 how can sram possibly take the xo drive train from carbon back to aluminium thats surely a step back in production purely for the sake of up pricing a product.
  • 2 1
 Hope that front ring comes in 34 or 36 and fits 104 crank size can see this as my new drive train.
  • 2 0
 keep trickling down, that's it...
  • 2 0
 11 Speeds? This is madness!
Madness?
THIS IS CYCLING!!!
  • 1 0
 Will all the xx1 and x01 parts be interchangeable? So can I mix the xx1 crank with the x01 derailleur etc...?
  • 1 0
 I dont see that being an issue a coworker of mine is running the XX1 crank with a 36t ring up front and a XO rear derailleur, everything is kosher there.
  • 1 0
 @ jclnv , you really don't. I run 1 x 10 amd that's plenty on my DH rig and my XC bike.....
  • 1 0
 If this comes out at x9 prices , i may be tempted. Hopefully Shimano release a similar product of this price
  • 2 2
 SRAM are nailing it lately and leading the way! Wink
Shimano looks too slow out of the gates and may become the Xbox One of the mountain biking world... Big Grin
  • 7 3
 Get back to me when their Elixir line actually works. K, thanks and bye!
  • 2 1
 I run Elixir brakes on one of my bikes and they've always worked fine!
Of course, it helps if you know how to maintain your bike components.... Big Grin
  • 1 0
 All of my drivetrain is SRAM components, and I like them. However, Elixirs suck nuts until you get the the Elixir R's. If you think your Elixirs are good, try out the Code R's.
  • 2 0
 I'm going to make a 12 speed set up so there!
  • 2 0
 easy, 30t race face chainring with elegant and clasic 11-36 cassette
  • 1 0
 They could do an x9/7 shifter and derauiller; I'd still pay the premium for the cassette.
  • 1 0
 Am I the only one who has never had an issue with only 9 gears? 32 tooth front, 34-11 rear. never let me down so far....
  • 2 0
 7 speed is good enough for downhill
  • 1 0
 I'll stick with my 1x10 until they figure out how to price things reasonably.
  • 1 0
 My legs hurt just looking at it. That thing has got to be a huge leg burner on the technical ascents!
  • 1 0
 I just finished my SJ evo 29er. The XX1 works greats for me. Climbs like a goat. 5 rides down and no regrets.
  • 1 0
 why all these strange bolt patterns? we aint got time for all that. SPLINED chainrings are the answer!
  • 1 0
 Sorry deeeight but cannondale were the first company to make a hollowtech chain set. Called the coda back in 1994.
  • 1 0
 I have a wolftooth 30t up front and 11-36 cassette. Clutch derailur. Quiet, no chain drops so far, all the gears I need
  • 1 0
 Wow, so this is really for the people huh? The rear mech is only $29 less the xx1....... >.
  • 8 11
 So...
I cant use my current back wheels.
My frame is designed around a 36T, so this makes my bike perform worse.
I can climb everything with a 36, 32 that 99.9% cant climb in a 22, 36, so why change?
I am just changing to 10 speed, simply for the clutch and for my lazy ass to have a 36, 36 for the big mountain riding.
If I need a silly crazy small gear, I am not fit enough, not strong enough and the tiny gears are useless for technical climbing.
But if you have the spare money and are a mug..., go buy.
  • 2 1
 So if someone buys something you don't think is worth the money they're an idiot? Classy.
  • 1 1
 Where did I say the word idiot?
Calm down.
I said mug.
A mug is someone willing to part with their money on something that will not bring a performance gain that is worth the expenditure. I earn more than enough as a senior design and development engineer within R&D at a company well over 100 times the size of SRAM, to buy xx1, but why would I?
Sorry that I have nearly 20 years experience as a development engineer, but behind my keyboard I am nothing...
I have not taken part or won an xc race since last night using 38, 11..26 and 9 speed, old x.0. Many gears did not help the boys behind me.. Smile They did comment on my gear choice though, but I went nowhere near 1st gear.
  • 1 0
 Does anyone actually use a grip shifter?
  • 1 0
 Good news but how less than XX1 will cost???
  • 1 0
 Good news, now price please!!!
  • 1 0
 We at Rincon mountain bike pro shop love sram________0^0________
  • 1 0
 not really digging the crankset, though the chainring does look nice.
  • 1 0
 can i finally have a gearbox?
  • 1 0
 One major problem here....its made by S R A M!
  • 1 0
 Am I the only who thinks the crank looks like shit?
  • 1 0
 If this is the beginning of the end of front derailleurs, SRAM I love you!
  • 1 0
 Race face narrow wide chainring , no need for crank
  • 1 0
 "for the people"
the rear mech is priced at £200.
  • 1 3
 What is the compatibility between the spider and other crank arms like existing X0? Any other colours like XO or just the white?
  • 1 4
 I still dont understand whats the point of a 1x crank if you wont be using a chainguide. And yes, i know it has a clutch mech and special chainring, but im sure the chain still drops.
  • 1 0
 I agree that it must drop, but I'd say its only on massive hits that the bikes its fitted to aren't really designed to take. When they brought it out Clementz said he rode one of the big events with it straight away and couldn't drop it.
  • 5 0
 try it, you will be surprised. The chain does not drop. So running a 1x saves your weight and complexity.
  • 2 0
 I read a review that the XX1 can actually survive WITHOUT a chainguide. Not sure if the X01 can.
  • 2 0
 The way the chainring teeth are designed actually keep the chain from dropping.
  • 4 0
 I run a 1x10 with a 10speed chain and a XX1 crank. After 2 months of solid, aggressive riding, I've yet to drop a single chain. No chain guide.
  • 2 0
 I've been running xx1 since december and I have never dropped a chain. I have an MRP AMG and I cut the top guide off because it wasnt needed. I even rode a full day at whistler with zero dropped chains.
  • 1 0
 I'd still run a bash guard, would suck to smack that unprotected front ring and bend it.
  • 2 2
 holy shit that is FUGLY lookin
  • 1 0
 My Guess...$999.00
  • 1 0
 I WANT A GEAR BOX
  • 4 6
 Seems like SRAM is really shifting the way we do things....quite the chain g.
  • 2 5
 Why can't they have an 8 speed traditional cassette without the weird new-hub specific high-range? Most trail riders don't spend a lot of time pedalling downhill.
  • 1 0
 Hmmm, I am doing something wrong then. I have been trying to pedal downhill all along and have been wasting my time trying to go faster!
  • 9 11
 So when will companies realize that no one actually needs 11 gears..
  • 12 0
 With one chainring you do.
  • 5 0
 For those of us who race XC on mountainous courses, we do need all of the range that XX1 provides. It's no so much that we need 11 gears, but we do need the full range without huge gearing gaps to be competitive. Given that, I don't think 11 gears is too many. With fewer gears, the gaps would get too large and it would be difficult to maintain a constant cadence on long climbs and flat sections. Sure, for casual trail riding, a constant cadence isn't a big deal, but when racing a constant cadence is more efficient (and helps you win!).
  • 6 1
 11? most people have 20.
  • 1 4
 I have 9 speed on my Specialized Pitch Pro, and I can climb everything in 32 front /36 rear gear. and 11/36 is quite speedy on the downhill.
  • 5 0
 That's the same as asking when will companies realize that no one actually needs 200mm travel. Youre only looking at it from one discipline.
  • 6 1
 32t front 11t rear is not speedy on downhills...
  • 1 0
 dingus the XX1 cassette is a 10-42, not an 11. And I've seen people go plenty fast with a 10/32 gear ratio.
  • 1 0
 I was referring to mate1998's comment, not XX1. I've got 32f 11r and spin out pretty easy on high speed descents.
  • 2 5
 Any else think the future in gear shifting is moving away from cables to hydrolic shifting
  • 1 0
 I would've suggested electronic tbh, you see all these electronic parts coming out and shimano already has a very good electronic road gruppo as well as the fact that electronic is insanely easy to set up and you get perfect shifting every time
  • 1 0
 I thought of electronic and hydraulic, but the difference is, you have to recharge electronic every ride, Hydraulic wouldn't need to be refilled anywhere near as often. However, electronic wont need to be bedded in anywhere near as specifically as hydraulic. I reckon it could go either way. As it is electronic has the upper hand at the moment.
  • 1 0
 I agree electric has its advantages, but many riders including myself like to keep my bike mechanical, we made the jump from cable cracks to hyd fluid brakes so I can see the same happening, and with it already proven to be reliable and trust worthy
  • 1 0
 Yeah I agree, I just mean they're both quite close in the number of advantages and disadvantages, but at the minute electronic looks more promising because It already exists. I reckon if someone brought out hydraulic however that it would be quick to take the lead.
  • 4 0
 No, compressed air... no one has done that before /sarcasm
  • 2 0
 Hydraulic shifting does exist, a German company (can't remember the name) but its only downside was the price, but if a company like shimano or sram would manufacture it, the cost would be more affordable, I really think its what shimano will release, and a battery pack will never have a place on a bike of mine ....
  • 1 0
 I wouldn't think hydraulic would be very easy to design to index shift such small ratios. It's more suited to infinite actuation applications where accuracy isn't so much of an issue. Imagine trying to bleed and fine tune a hydraulic rear mech. One air bubble and your derailleur starts to drift into other gears. A derailleur smash would also mean your ride is over. A chairlift in Ireland is the answer...!
  • 1 1
 The german company was called SAFE, and the actual derailleurs were still mechanical. Hydraulic shifters and lines fed fluid to remote slave cylinders you attached to the derailleurs which then pulled regular short cables to accomplish the actual shifts.
  • 1 0
 This was the company I was referring to, and to my knowledge its all hydraulic
  • 2 0
 acros components maybe? can't see the video on my phone at the moment so excuse me if that was it
  • 1 0
 Yes, acros
  • 1 0
 Yes it is sealed hydrolic system by Acros
  • 2 0
 No reason hydraulics couldn't EXCEED the precision of cable systems.... and faster too, but we're all still waiting for a minimal power loss gearbox with a standard for frame fitting to be actuated by hydro- mark my words, that's the future.
  • 4 0
 I can't wait for avid to make hydraulic shifters, just think of all the bleed practice I'm gonna get !!!! SO STOKED!!!
  • 2 1
 I wouldn't want to have to bleed my hydraulic shifting system.... Too much complication. Cables are fine as long as they stick with the 1:1 actuation.
  • 2 0
 bleeding can't be that hard, but just don't tilt your bike up or the trademark avid power loss comes into effect
  • 9 11
 No thanks Sram.
  • 5 3
 shimano for life
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