Evil Insurgent - Review

Nov 16, 2015
by Mike Kazimer  




Rolling up to a busy trailhead aboard the Insurgent, Evil's latest carbon creation, is a surefire way to draw a crowd of inqusitive riders, attracted like moths to a flame by the bike's striking looks, and in this case an extra bright paint job called Slimeball. With 27.5” wheels and 151mm of travel, the bike is intended to be a versatile all-rounder, albeit one whose preferred terrain is on the steeper side of things.

Kevin Walsh, Evil's owner, wanted the Insurgent to fit his definition of a mountain bike, something that could be configured for everything from trail rides to days in the bike park. Two geometry settings allow riders to choose just how low and slack they want the bike to be, and the head angle and bottom bracket height can be tweaked even further depending on whether a 150 or 160mm fork is installed up front.


Insurgent Details

• Intended use: all-mountain / enduro
• Rear wheel travel: 151mm
• Wheel size: 27.5''
• Head angle: 64.8° or 65.6° (160mm fork)
• Frame material: unidirectional carbon fiber
• 73mm threaded bottom bracket
• DELTA link rear suspension
• Weight (as shown, size L w/o pedals): 30 pounds (13.6 kg)
• Sizes: S, M, L, XL
• Colors: Slimeball, Murder Black
• MSRP: $2,799 USD (frame only), complete bikes from $5,299.
www.evil-bikes.com / @evil-bikes
An Insurgent frame with a RockShox Monarch Plus DebonAir shock retails for $2,799 USD, and Evil also offers three different complete bikes, beginning at $5,299 for one with a SRAM X1 parts kit, and going up to $6,699 to the X01 package. There a multiple rear shock options, and along with the Monarch Plus, riders can choose from either a Fox Float X2, Float X, or RockShox Vivid Air. We went the frame-only route, and built up a complete bike with components that were on hand for long term reviews, including a RockShox Lyrik, RaceFace Atlas cranks, and Shimano XT M8000 brakes. As shown, without pedals our size large bike weighed 30 pounds.


Evil Insurgent review
The sloping top tube provides a generous amount of standover clearance.
Evil Insurgent review
An integrated carbon fiber chain guide helps ensure the chain stays exactly where it should.


Frame Details

The Insurgent's frame shape shares similarities with the Uprising, its 26” wheeled predecessor, but the overall look is a little sleeker, with a subtle curve to the low slung top tube and more shaping around the seat mast. Evil placed a high priority on stifness when they were designing the frame, and the carbon swingarm is sight to behold, one that makes it clear that this isn't a spindly little XC whip. That sturdy construction does come with some constraints though, including the fact that it's not possible to run smaller than a 30 tooth chainring, and that the chain runs very close to the top of the chainstay in the higher gears.


Evil Insurgent review
Evil sought to create an extra-stiff swingarm, which reduced the amount of room between the chain and chainstay.
Evil Insurgent review
Tire clearance has been greatly improved over the 26" Uprising, and there's now room to fit most 2.5" tires.


Internal housing is in place for a dropper post, and the rear derailleur housing briefly disappears into the swingarm, but otherwise everything is cleanly routed along the underside of the top tube. ISCG 05 tabs are located around the threaded bottom bracket, but there aren't the three mounting holes that many riders are used to seeing. This is because Evil have created an integrated carbon fiber upper chain guide (the frame was designed to be run solely as a single ring set up), and have teamed up with e*thirteen to create a lower guide for riders seeking additional chain retention and chain ring protection.

What about water bottle mounts? Unfortunately, the Insurgent doesn't have any. This could change in the future, but for now thirsty riders will either need to carry a pack or figure out a creative way to mount a bottle onto the frame.


Evil Insurgent review
The DELTA suspension design is Dave Weagle's take on a link-driven single pivot.

Suspension Design

At first glance, the Insurgent's DELTA link rear suspension design looks complicated, an intricate array of small links and bearings, but it's actually relatively simple, and only uses a total of eight sealed cartridge bearings. Designed by Dave Weagle (DELTA stands for Dave's Extra Legitimate Travel Apparatus) the intention behind the layout is to provide a supple beginning stroke that ramps up for improved pedalling, with a more linear feel later in the travel before ramping up once again to avoid harsh bottom outs.

Changing the bike's geometry (and its on-trail personality) involves flipping over the aluminum chip joining the swingarm and the short link that pulls down on main link. It's roughly a ten minute procedure, one that changes the bottom bracket height by 12 millimeters and the head angle by .8 degrees. We ran our test bike with a 160mm RockShox Lyrik, which gave it a head angle of 65.6° and a bottom bracket height of 346mm in the higher setting, and a 64.8° head angle and 334mm bottom bracket height in the low setting. One of the benefits of the DELTA link suspension design is that the geometry changes don't dramatically affect the bike's leverage rate, which means the shock's settings don't need to be altered when the chip is flipped.


Geometry

Evil Insurgent review







Setup

The first few rides on the Insurgent were spent getting the rear suspension dialed to my liking, and after some experimentation I settled on running four air volume spacers in the Monarch DebonAir, and an air pressure of 40 pounds above my body weight. That put it right at 30% sag, a number that can be confirmed via the handy little indicator located on the main suspension link. The rear suspension has a fairly linear feel as it goes deeper into its travel, and running four volume spacers worked well to prevent the bike from bottoming out too often, although it still seemed easier to use all of the travel compared to a bike like the YT Capra that has a very progressive suspension curve.


Climbing

The Insurgent fits into the 'goes uphill decently, descends like a bat out of hell' trope that's becoming the norm for all-mountain and enduro race rigs, but there's more to it than that. For one thing, its pedalling performance is excellent, even with the Monarch DebonAir in the fully open position. There's minimal undue suspension movement, but when faced with rough ground the suspension stays active and supple, which makes it easier to keep the rear wheel stuck to the trail rather than bouncing and skittering around on tricky climbs.

On long sustained fireroad climbs, the necessary suffering that preceded many of the rowdier descents I took the Insurgent on, I did find that the top tube length and seat angle put my weight more towards the rear of the bike than I would have liked. Positioning the seat all the way forward helped make this more manageable, but I ended up standing and pedalling out of the saddle a little more than usual in order to center my weight and stay balanced between the two wheels.

Not surprisingly, the Insurgent climbs best in the higher geometry setting - the front end feels less likely to wander, and the higher bottom bracket helps reduce the number of pedal strikes. On that note, I'd recommend running 170mm cranks, particularly if you have any plans of running the bike in the lower geometry setting where the bottom bracket sits only 334mm (13.2") above the ground.


Evil Insurgent review
The Insurgent's no slouch on the climbs, but it's happiest once gravity takes over.

Descending

Putting the Insurgent into the lower geometry setting (labeled XLow on the flip chip) is like angering the Incredible Hulk – it turns the bike into an absolute hell raiser. Granted, this setting works best on the steepest of trails, the type that a downhill bike wouldn't be out of place on, but if that's your preferred terrain the Insurgent delivers a ripping good time.

The 64.8° head angle, low bottom bracket and generous reach provide loads of stability, and the Insurgent's suspension is supple enough that I'd often find myself plowing straight through root and rocks just for the fun of it. 151mm may be a little less rear travel than some of the other big guns in the all-mountain / enduro category, but that's nothing to worry about - it certainly doesn't limit what this bike is capable of. When it comes to cornering, the Slimeball-colored machine felt best carving wider arcs, and going a little further to the outside of a tight corner helped make sure that there was enough room to get everything lined up and ready to blast out the exit. As an added handling bonus, the Insurgent is extremely easy to manual, and I lost track of the number of times I leaned back, lifted the front wheel, and let the rear end do its thing.

As wildly fun as the Insurgent's super slack and low setting was, I did end up spending more time with the bike in the higher geometry position (labeled Low on the flip chip). This made it feel less singlemindedly focused on rocketing downhill, and added a bit of liveliness to its handling on more moderate terrain, or on trails filled with jumps and berms. In any configuration the bike feels well balanced - the 430mm chainstay length is a good match to the roomy front end, and the rear shock position gives the bike a nice and low center of gravity,

The tight clearance between the chain and the chain stay that was mentioned earlier does mean that the Insurgent isn't the quietest bike out there. Clutch-equipped derailleurs only place the section of chain that's under the chainstay under tension, and in this case it's the part above the chainstay that's creating the noise. The rubber protector helps, but on rougher trails the 'thwap, thwap, thwap' of the chain against the protector is still very audible.


Evil Insurgent review
Evil Insurgent review

Component Check

• Race Face Atlas Cranks: Race Face's classic Atlas cranks are now direct mount chainring compatible, and are also adaptable to just about any bottom bracket configuration out there thanks to the company's Cinch system that allows for spindles and spiders to be swapped as needed. On the trail there weren't any issues – they're stiff, silent, and the bottom bracket is still spinning smoothly even after a number of wet rides. The sloppy weather is just getting started though, which is why we'll have a longer term review up after riding them through even more nastiness.

• RockShox Lyrik: The Lyrik is noticeably stiffer than the Pike, and has a more supple beginning stroke, which matched well with the Monarch DebonAir rear shock. Unfortunately, this particular fork, one that had been ridden hard for the last three months, developed a noticeable amount of what felt like bushing play. SRAM's response was the good old, “that one is pre-production” line, so the final verdict on durability will have to wait until we get a few months in on a production model.

• Integrated chain guide: The chainguide is a unique touch, but it did take a little bit of fiddling with bottom bracket spacers to keep the chain from rubbing in the easiest gears. Even after that there still wasn't much clearance between the chain and the innermost portion of the guide, which made it more difficult for mud and grit to escape during wet rides.

• XT M8000 brakes: Shimano's XT brakes have a well deserved reputation for being reliable and powerful stoppers, and the latest iteration continues that tradition. They were fade free for the duration of the test, even on long descents that required extended periods of heavy braking. The amount of modulation doesn't quite match that of SRAM's Guide brakes, but otherwise they're still an excellent choice for everything from XC to enduro rigs.




Evil Insurgent review


Pinkbike's Take:

bigquotesEvil have created a trail smashing monster with the Insurgent. It'd be easy to call it 'a downhiller's trail bike,' but that's fast becoming a tired cliche, and I'd say that the Insurgent is actually more than that. This is a bike that's capable of making a rider wonder if they even really need a DH bike, especially since it can be pedaled to the top of gnarly trails without too much fuss. There are a few quibbles, including the lack of water bottle mounts and the tight chain clearance, but the Insurgent's brilliant handling on the descents makes them fade into the background. - Mike Kazimer




Visit the high-res gallery for more images from this review




About the Reviewer
Stats: Age: 33 • Height: 5'11” • Inseam: 33" • Weight: 155lb • Industry affiliations / sponsors: None
Twenty years deep into a mountain biking addiction that began as a way to escape the suburban sprawl of Connecticut, Mike Kazimer is most at home deep the woods, carving his way down steep, technical trails. The decade he spent as a bike mechanic helped create a solid technical background to draw from when reviewing products, and his current location in the Pacific Northwest allows for easy access to the wettest, muddiest conditions imaginable.



271 Comments

  • + 115
 And at the office one day, Dave yelled out to the staff "I've got a killer new rear suspension system, it's the fourth one I've designed so I really wanna use the acronym DELTA. I can get you started with 'Dave' & 'Travel' for the D & T, you guys come up with the rest, I'm off to the pub to celebrate."
  • + 13
 Single pivot nevermind what.
I'd called it EVIL PIVOT. Smile
  • + 16
 Single pivot never got so complicated !
  • + 43
 The Delta is a F***** BEAST! Built up my Insurgent a couple weeks ago and never had so much fun on a bike!
www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFjSIRwHkJc here's from the first weekend on it
  • + 15
 I'm sure the shape of the triangular link resembling the latin letter delta has nothing to do with the suspension design name, nothing at all.
  • + 7
 Dave's Extra Legitimate Travel Apparatus...yup, just guessed it Smile
  • + 3
 @feeblesmith Latin letter delta??
  • + 9
 @feeblesmith

'twas the Greeks.
  • + 5
 Hmm figures i never passed calculus trying to make sense of latin and also not doing Great in physiology,everything in greek and all. Delta indeed told me the diffrence..
  • + 1
 @mikekazimer Are you saying IT CAN'T CORNER ??? Could you maybe elaborate a bit on that?
  • + 83
 Dear SRAM, please tell marketing that everyone knows 'pre-production' is total bs. It just makes you look like giant douches. Or maybe I have been on a 'pre-production' reverb for seven years since it sh*ts the bed every seven months.
  • + 3
 Try KS. Far superior.
  • + 9
 Meh, I've had my Reverb rebuilt several times over the course of 2 yrs, but sent the KS back 4 times in two months.
  • + 8
 Then try 9point8 Fall Line! Wink
  • + 52
 This kind of misses the elephant in the room - would you buy an Evil? Would you trust the company, after their disastrous history? Reading forums, it sounds like they're still not covering themselves in glory re customer service,
  • + 23
 For me, it's why would you bother, rather than just would you?

There are plenty of other bikes out there, just as good, probably cheaper & definitely more reliable.

Chances are dealing with them probably won't give you an aneurysm too Smile
  • - 3
 Seconded.
  • + 28
 @honourablegeorge, as I mentioned in response to another comment, "there's no denying that Evil have had issues in the past, but they switched production to a different (and very well regarded) factory, and so far it seems to be for the better. The Insurgent frame has a three year warranty."
  • + 39
 Not just their past though, Mike. Their more recent history - the Uprising and Following - isn't perfect either. And for a company which such a bad history, they need to be absolutely top of their game for customer service and reliability to rebuild that reputation. It doesn't sound like that's the case.
  • - 29
flag Hulleland (Nov 16, 2015 at 4:04) (Below Threshold)
 check out my Evil Insurgent built at my instagram. Frame feels good so far
@henrikulleland
  • + 7
 @mikekazimer, can you shed any light as to whether the insurgent needs proprietary bearings like the Undead? it cost £150 for a bearing set and was the main reason i didn't buy one.
  • + 39
 I think the Undead bearings lasted just fine, but you had to replace the frame every six months Smile
  • + 16
 The improved QC in the factory is one thing, but the customer service from their HQ is another...
  • + 0
 i think there's always that risk.. it annoys me that people slate Yeti and Evil when we've seen snapped bikes from every manufacturer in the business... name a frame and we'll be able find a broken one.
  • + 17
 One-off breakage isn't the topic here...
  • + 1
 perhaps i worded the above badly. I could find numerous broken frames from any manufacturer you suggested.
  • + 9
 Of course you do. However, relatively against the numbers sold, there will be less. that with the brands you give examples of. Reputations don't occur for no reason Smile

The true test is how they deal with those breakages. I think it's safe to say, they arn't so hot on the customer service aspect.
  • + 4
 My buddy could not ride last week because the axle bolt came off his frame during a ride the week before. He rides The Following 29er.
  • + 23
 I contacted evil about 10 times trying to buy a following. They eventually claimed they would not sell me one because Im a professional mechanic. I guess Kevin Walsh only wants dentists riding his bikes. I dont care if they are good bikes, I'll never ride one. Worst customer service I've experienced in the industry and that is saying something
  • - 2
 @nordland071285, can you find me pics of a broken frame made by ORANGE bikes pls
  • + 2
 I have a cracked orange sub 5. It is a 2003 and hairline cracked last year.

www.pinkbike.com/photo/12633268

I hear Orange were not too good on the customer service front but are now a lot better. Only replaced it with a Norco sight because I didn't have enough money for another 5.
  • + 9
 I know a professional mechanic that has an Evil Following and rips on it. I also don't believe Kevin wants 'dentists' on his bikes based on the more downhill focused design (long, slack, low BB, etc.). I own a following and have had zero issues with it so far (4 months). I did have some reservations about them but decided to give them the benefit of the doubt based in part on this review (fanatikbike.com/articles/review-evil-following-pg1751.htm), "Given the sheer volume of these bikes we've sold since January, it wouldn't be unusual for us to get one or two back with more serious warranty issues. To date, we've only had one customer with a minor cosmetic issue on the swingarm, and that's it.".

Time will tell but maybe, just maybe, Evil have turned a corner now. The real question is: will it matter or have too many people written them off forever?
  • + 15
 I was going to get all hot and bothered about the 3 year warranty then I did some research. The big S has lifetime on front triangle and 5 years on rear (ironically made of alloy). Giant is lifetime with no such clauses that I saw. Trek distinguished Slash/Ticket/Session to 3 years while Remedy is lifetime. Knolly 2 years. Niner 5 years on carbon. Cannondale is lifetime (which you'll probably need). Felt lifetime, Scott 5 years, Ibis 3 years, Santa Cruz 5 year, Commencal 5 year with 2 rear swingarm, Yeti 5 year. Norco lifetime. Rocky Mountain 5 years. So with that in mind 3 years in on the low side and if I were them I'd do 5 to qualm some of the fears. It goes without saying that each company has it's own stance on what they choose to cover during that period of time.
  • + 22
 So lets just recap...a lack luster history in terms of frame reliability, extremely questionable warranty service, a single pivot suspension with the most complicated linkage in the history of single pivot linkages, the utilization of small, expensive proprietary bearings that need to be replaced atleast twice as often as other bikes, and slack seat tube angles that make the bike impossible for anyone over 5'9 to properly climb. I think I'm going to give them my money instead of the 100000000 other brands out there that make a better option!
  • + 5
 All I can speak of this subject is from first hand experience. I bought a used warranty replacement Uprising this year. I needed a handful of small parts and answers to a few questions, so I inquired with Evil on their webpage (despite the fact I could just stop by their offices in Seattle). My questions and small parts inquiry was answered within about a half of a day each time by a fellow named Mike Metzger.

I have also had no issues with my uprising, save for one over torqued T-nut. Glad I had a spare!

P.S. These guys in B-ham stock Evil small parts. fanatikbike.com/product-list/evil-pg1515
  • + 1
 What good is a warranty whether it's 1 year, 3 years, or lifetime when a company can't support you when you need them. I don't own an Evil but do understand when you need customer support and no answer is available to you, it can be highly frustrating. I had an experience where I needed a front end replaced due to a crack and the vendor wouldn't return my calls for over a month. Finally got a hold of someone and was told they no longer have any parts. This was the previous years model and no parts available!? I gave them an earful but still didn't do any good. Their mentality is we already took your money and now you're screwed. Oh yeah, I was offered the current model for a lousy 10% discount but had to pay shipping and handling so that negates the so called discount.
  • + 10
 Santa Cruz is lifetime warranty
  • + 3
 @intensemack10 you are correct! They just changed in May of this year from 5 to lifetime. Good catch.
  • + 15
 This is such a tired argument. If you are looking at Evil you are looking at them in large part because they are a small company. I got my insurgent from them directly. Chatted with Kevin and the boys while they built my frame. If you want that kind of experience or the ability to pick up the phone and call them directly then you look at brands like Evil. If you want something less then go to one of the big bike companies, I'm sure Evil doesn't care. All companies have warranty claims because this is mountain biking and we beat our stuff up. Evil has done everything it can to rectify any problems customers have had in the past. No one talks about the great things they've done to help people out. People choose companies like Evil because they believe in what they are doing and they want to send their hard earned money to some local people rather than the big companies.

For whatever its worth, when I was at Evil's shop Kevin was telling me how he backed over his Insurgent with his truck and still rides it. I saw the pictures, saw the destroyed wheels and then sat on the very bike. The bike had some scratches, but amazing condition considering a truck backed over it and it's still ride-able. I have nothing but love for Evil, they were great and I had a positive experience with them. They always answered my questions (both phone and email) and were really helpful in providing good information about what components they think work best.

Great work Evil, you've made a Killer bike. Those of us lucky enough to own one know it and love you for it.
  • + 2
 It was always lifetime for the most part. If you were original owner they would send you parts if they had a defect. They offered crash replacement parts to the original owner dirt cheap, must have been close to manufacturer cost. I was looking at a nomad, hated the 2016 colors but wanted a lifetime warranty. LBS told me to not worry about it as anything would be taken care of. They talked me into the cheaper, discounted stealth black bike i liked. I'm happy as a clam and every issue has been sorted.
  • + 9
 No warranty on something that doesn't break is better than an awesome warranty on something that breaks all the time
  • + 3
 I recently purchased an Insurgent direct from Evil. Chip was extremely helpful (both via email and phone) and quick to respond. If this is an indication of their new customer service, I think I'm very satisfied with it.
  • + 5
 @Captain- being quick to take your $2800 is not customer service, that is called making a sale
  • + 3
 Maybe so. But after the sale and continuing to ask 100 questions with a quick response and great attitude certainly have to count for great customer service.
  • + 3
 That's good! Hope they can change the bad reputation
  • + 1
 I second what Captain said, Chip was very responsive to my emails and answered the phone every time I called to answer questions. Ordered a Following, stoked to see how it rides!
  • + 41
 ..and the wish list gets one bike longer.
  • + 5
 I own a Undead too and it's a great bike but the rest...?!

For the spare parts:
I got my new bearings after 2 weeks and since i got the new bearings i had no problems! Also another small part that broke was shipped via prio in just 3 days - here the costumer service was awesome!

For the frame:
My frame "broke". I know it's only visual but they don't replace it. I want to sell the bike to just ride something new but nobody buys a broken frame...

On the Eurobike I talked to one of the guys of Evil and he just told me that I should not hope for a new rear triangle...
  • + 26
 "Kevin Walsh, Evil's owner, wanted the Insurgent to fit his definition of a mountain bike, something that could be configured for everything from trail rides to days in the bike park. "

........so he gave it a 72.8 degree seat tube that would make it easy to climb and easy for tall people to wheelie uphill........
  • + 14
 Truth. Slack seat tube angles make it easy to cheat all the other in vogue geometry numbers, but in actually make the bike suck for a lot of riders. This is where the Nomad got it right.
  • + 11
 It's funny how no Evil owners say anything about this and how most reviews just glance over it. THIS IS A BIG FUCKING FLAW
  • + 1
 Godzilla sized flaw..... Will they do the same on this mystery long travel 29er they are making?
  • + 3
 When did 73* become slack? What's everyone's obsession with every bike having the same geometry? Don't you want diversity? It creates choices.

That extra degree will add about an inch in wheel base. Everything has pluses and minuses.
  • + 1
 For a lot of taller people or those with long legs a slack seat tube won't work for climbing Co's your ass ends up over the rear axle and you end up struggling to keep the front wheel down.... On an Enduro with the steep up and steep down that matters.....
  • + 8
 Have any of you complaining about the geometry numbers ridden their bikes? I'm not completely discounting your ability to armchair engineer but until you personally test ride it your concerns seem entirely overblown.
  • + 3
 @ryan83 I think that's a fair question and the answer is yes and many similar. There's a lot of tall guys who are miffed about seeing rad bikes that are scaled badly for us. We need steep seat tubes for climbing if chain stays are short (to keep our weight forward of the rear axle and we need proper stack heights (so we aren't bent over and riding bad shapes). At this point the only options are 3 of Specialized 29ers...and no I'm not promoting them. I want more choice! Comments like mine are aimed at bike designers...how about skipping changing the colours every season and just putting a big enough head tube on the bloody frames!!!!

Here's an example of another banging bike that gets it wrong..........the Following, a 29er that should be good for big guys....its had positive reviews and looks the muts nuts....but buy a big frame and you find the Stack/reach ratio is different 1.33 for an XL and 1.45 for a Medium. In plain language the stack increases just 9mm between those frames....seriously the medium counts from 5'8 upwards and the XL 6'4 upwards. So you get an extra 0.3 inches higher stack for being 8 inches taller....

I hope you agree this is messed up or maybe you don't care if your average height or less (or have short legs).

Tall riders of the world unite, rise up and fight the tyranny and oppression of the bike designers!!!! ....but seriously can a bike design dude give us a professional view on this stuff?????

@mikekazimer
  • + 3
 ^^^^^ this a thousand times @Travel66
as a 6'4" guy with really long legs, i'd far rather a steeper seat tube. it actually annoys me that no one publishes their actual seat tube angles anymore - only the effective. I know that by the time I get my dropper fully extended, that true effective angle is going to be more in the low 70s. The Rocky Altitude seems to be one of the better bikes for this - not sure what else...
  • + 3
 @ryan83

you don't need to ride a bike to know if a static geometry figure works well for you or not. Seat tube angle doesn't change, and if a certain figure doesn't work well on one bike, its not going to work well for you on any bike.
  • + 1
 I agree with @EMR52 in that not all bikes should be the same, and not all bikes need to work for all people. Others are frustrated I think because this bike ticks more boxes for them than an alternative - but is a no-go because it doesn't fit. For me its a concern, because more and more manufacturers are placating consumers demands for in-vogue geometry, often at the expense of seat tube angle, which starts ruling more and more bikes out.
  • + 2
 The only thing keeping me from buying this bike is the sub 73 degree seat angle. Evil almost designed the perfect bike.
  • + 2
 It's gutting to see loads of great bikes and see they don't suit tall guys. You would think that the bike designers would take a hint from the DH guys who despite seeming to be mostly average/small still boost their stacks with riser bars and a load of stem plates... It looks to me that bigger frames are not designed for average build who like a longer frame/reach than they are for tall guys.... WHEN WILL A BIKE DESIGNER JOIN IN THIS DISCUSSION?

Whyte T129 1.26 XL
Mega 290 1.31 XL
Following 1.33 XL
Nomad stack/reach 1.34 XL (1.51 small)
Capra 1.35 Large / 1.33 XL

Tall boy 1.39 XXL
Stumpy 29er 1.41 XL
E29 is 1.41 XL

New YT 29er ?
  • + 1
 For all you tall people. one word. Mondraker.
  • + 0
 You are joking right? The XL stack/reach is 1.21

Even the absolute level is only 613mm
  • + 1
 Headset spacers and high rise bars will help with your set up on these bikes, and then you don't have some really ugly massive headtube. For any tall person the Mondraker is an awesome fit, try one.
  • + 1
 Tall people already do these things... We wouldn't be saying anything if those things cured the problem... Most bikes already come with a 20mm rise bar or more, there's not much you can add to that. Most tubes are cut down a fair way and the stem is near the top already so rarely do you get more than 5mm from rearranging spacers. Even using a riser stem doesn't get you very far as stems are generally short.... Your point about an ugly long head tube speaks volumes.... The obsession of making the bikes look cool overrides the real need for correctly scaled larger frames
  • + 2
 like you say - the front end can be dealt with, cosmetics aside. i have a 2010 enduro, and it has a massive head tube and it works, but looks funny compared to newer bikes. I'm more interested in dealing with a seat that is behind the rear wheel once I'm fully extended on a climb and wheelie-ing.
  • + 1
 @powderturns Yep both ends need sorting and you've managed it with about the only option available..... Thanks to the big S!
  • + 1
 No (low stack) and then a big Yes....the XL in that guerrilla is genuinely XL but the price would be equally enormous in the UK.
  • + 0
 @csermonet:There's a very good reason you don't hear about a lot of EVIL Insurgent owners complaining about their ride, and why those who ride it make little mention of it....

its "flaws" get me up and down the mountain with a bigger smile on my face than any bike ever has. Sorry the slack seat tube that I manage to climb right on pace with the rest of my riding crew without problem isn't something that has struck me to whine about.
  • - 1
 @esander: sheesh almost 4 months later? and why are you taking my complaint about the frame like a personal attack on you? why are you singling me out instead of others that brought this up? it's a fact, a slack seat tube is not as ideal as a steep one when talking about climbing. i'm glad your bike gives you smiles and shit that's all that matters.but as you can see by the likes on my comment and others that address this issue, the seat tube angle IS a big deal to other riders besides yourself. the world doesn't revolve around you,
  • + 2
 @esander: The only gripe about my Insurgent is the seat tube angle. I'm 6' on the large with a 35mm stem, and the reach is perfect, but the slack ST angle makes efficient seated climbs so difficult. I have the seat as far forward as it can go, and I still have to slide to the front of it to get in the decent climbing position. With such a long front end, they should have considered the seat position. Other than that I'm super happy with it. The bike grips and rips.
  • + 2
 @csermonet: Just giving you an "Evil Owners" take since you found it funny you don't hear from them, relax lol
  • + 22
 That chain-stay must take a beating.
  • + 18
 Every time a new bike comes out that looks interesting, I type the name of the bike company and the words 'frame and warranty issues' into good ol' Google.
  • + 26
 dunno what you mean, it looks a "cracking deal"
  • + 1
 For real?
Evil has carbon cracking issues?
  • + 7
 @davidsimons, there's no denying that Evil have had issues in the past, but they switched production to a different (and very well regarded) factory, and so far it seems to be for the better. The Insurgent frame has a three year warranty.
  • + 5
 Past, present & no doubt the future!
  • + 20
 While other bike companies with lifetime frame warranties laugh behind Evil's back...
  • + 11
 sneer and worry about life time warranties that you'll never claim on or try riding an evil and you you might change your mind. For the last 6 months I've been riding a Following up and down the mountains of north east spain and what hills there are in southern england. I feel quite comfortable, even as the bike whore i know i am, saying that my head hasnt been turned by another bike since, not even this one. Evil are doing things slightly differently and making game changing bikes that in my experience are as reliable as an others i've ridden, just loads more versatile and most importantly more fun Smile
  • + 13
 You have kind of proven your own point there - other people generally make very good, reliable bikes. They offer lifetime warranties.

Brands like Evil & Yeti - well, don't, in all aspects of the above.

As the reviewer responded to another point & compared it to what are probably the best bikes in this sector - he openly said they are all good, and not one really stands above the others.

So why would you buy the one that's almost guaranteed to give you the most hassle, has the least support, and the worst warranty.

Unless of course, you like to make life hard for yourself.
  • + 7
 @mikekazimer The previous frames that suffered so many frame failures, did those frames have a warranty?
  • + 12
 All i can say is buying an Evil Following has made my riding life more fun. If you want a bike with a lifetime warranty then dont buy an Evil. I'm not here to persuade you to do otherwise
  • - 2
 Yougottabuyit BECAUSE it has the best name in the industry... seriously... bar none. You have to figure out why not to buy it though.
  • + 1
 not many companies out there giving lifetime warranties on carbon. 3-5 years is the average
  • + 0
 Can't think of any "boutique brand" offering lifetime warranty on their frames. Only ones I know of are the big brands like Trek/Specialized/Cannondale, and even then there's exceptions for the burlier frames (session, slash etc...)
  • + 6
 @Trailsoup, Not sure if Devinci is "boutique" or not, but they aren't on the same scale as the big three that is for sure. They offer a lifetime warranty on all there frames.
  • + 6
 Other than Santa Cruz?

Mind you, with Evil's legendary customer service. chances are you will be up sh*t creek, regardless of whatever your warranty period is.
  • + 5
 Thing is you can find a broken pictures of most bikes if you search enough. Lots of cracked Capra's, remember all the dented sessions hell I've even seen photos of the old tank like glory's in pieces. Completely writing off a companies on a few examples of previous faulty frames would leave us with very few options and missing out on great bikes because of past failures.
  • + 2
 Mondraker offer lifetime warranty
  • + 2
 LOTS of companies now offering lifetime warranty on carbon. off the top of my head: The big 3(Specialized, Giant, Trek) as well as Devinci, & I know there's more I'm forgetting. Devinci is the killer for me: This looks like an awesome bike. but why would I buy it over a Spartan with a lifetime warranty?
  • + 15
 Just wanted to point out, even as I am a fan of Specialized (who offers the "lifetime" warranty), that "lifetime" in the bike industry actually means "5 years". For the most part, even the "lifetime" warranties are effectively 5 year warranties. 5 years is the point at which, in the manufacturers mind, the chance of a "factory defect" causing failure in the frame is eliminated. So anything that goes wrong after 5 years is considered excessive wear or abuse. Now I personally have been able to warranty Specialized frames after 5 years, but it's highly dependent on the shop and what they are willing to do to help. I haven't heard of many instances where a 5+ year old frame failed and was replaced under warranty.

Just some food for thought.
  • + 6
 Santa Cruz recently started to offer a lifetime warranty on their frames..
  • + 1
 My issue isn't the warranty, but the spotty customer services. Seems it's really painful trying to sort out stuff with these guys. At least with Yeti and Ibis you get quick responses and replacement within a very reasonable timeframe. I'm shopping between this and the HD3 and my Mojo HD has been built solid.
  • - 4
flag Drbillin (Nov 16, 2015 at 8:46) (Below Threshold)
 @ TheRaven you are pretty spot on. I had the same thoughts - to further elaborate for all readers here, 'Lifetime Warranty' is more marketing to make you feel warm and fuzzy and convince you to buy a bike instead of an actual promise or statement of quality. When you read the fine print on supposed 'lifetime' warranties:
1) It is dependent on the company offering the warranty being in business in 5-10 years when you want to warranty something that old. Seems unlikely that a 'big' bike company could fail in that sense but its not impossible either (Schwinn, anyone?).
2) It is dependent that the company will still have that same warranty on offer then - these are 'agreements' that can be changed at any time by the company. (ex; the first year Roval wheels had a lifetime warranty, now they don't...)
3) You know how many things are excluded under 'lifetime warranty'? Nearly everything except the main front triangle. Chainstays, seatstays, rear triangles, bearings, shocks, etc are all 'wear and tear items' and any other component on the bike is under warranty for that specific manufacturer (i.e. Shimano, Fox, Rockshox, SRAM - and they ain't offering lifetime)...
4) to TheRaven's point, it is effectively a 5-year warranty because:
a) the warranty will 'replace, at the manufacturers discretion, of equal value' which means you get the same ol' frame, not a new one, and are going to use your trashed components on said 'new' frame. Most of these large manufacturers stock old frames to use as a warranty at later point. You will still have out-of-date frame/shock/tech though...
b) internally at these companies, anything beyond 5 years is typically viewed as 'normal wear and tear, ridden beyond the engineered material parameters' and not 'manufacturer defect'.
c) if you do get a newer frame, it is likely ONLY the frame being replaced per the warranty - it is typical that in the warranty it is your responsibility for parts, compatibility issues, labor, etc.

So in reality, say you actually have a 10 year-old bike and warranty it at the big red S under 'lifetime warranty', first you are going to jump through the hoops of finding the receipt, if you are lucky your LBS you bought it from will have it on file, but not many people keep records that far back. If you can convince the warranty department you are original owner, there are a few scenarios:
i) they'll actually have your frame in the warehouse and you'll receive a 'new' 10-year-old frame that is worth its weight in aluminum scrap. You are still stuck with outdated and completely worn components, and likely no-one services your fork / shock anymore, and likely there are some outdated seatpost / BB / shock / headtube / wheel sizes on there anyways. If you do think its worth putting 'newer' components on this frame they are more than likely not compatible.
ii) you'll get a 'newer' frame - this means they don't have your frame it is so old, and you're still getting the oldest crap in the warehouse they want to get rid of, maybe a 2010 or 2011 frame. You are most certainly going to have a ton of compatibility issues and do you really want to put an old-ass 32mm stanchion POS fork on a newer frame?
iii) none of this will work and you'll be offered half-off on a new complete bike, so you are basically buying a new bike on wholesale.

Bottom Line - you are NEVER going to receive a new complete bike in 5+ years from now on a 'lifetime warranty' bike. No matter the situation, you are still going to pay a good amount of $ and need a new bike after five years (or sooner, thanks to Boost, new 'standards, etc). I argue that this is actually a disservice to offer lifetime warranties - most consumers are dumb enough to think that 'lifetime' applies to tires, brake pads, etc and are upset that after leaving their bike with no service outside in the rain for 4 years that its the bike companies fault the bike is falling apart. That huge selling point sticker shouting 'LIFETIME WARRANTY!' doesn't let you know the reality I've spelled out before - it helps emotionally market that brand to you.
  • + 5
 Specialized warrantying frames older than 5 years has been the rule, not the exception, at the shops I know @TheRaven . Heck, they just gave me a brand new pump as a replacement for one that was 12 years old, just because of an inaccurate gauge.

Regardless, even if it is only 5 years, that's better than the 3 year warranty Evil is offering here.
  • + 2
 Yeah I do want to clarify that in my experience, Specialized has been fantastic with warranty claims. Granted, I have an excellent shop that I work with. I have heard plenty of horror stories about warranty claim issues with Spec, but in every case it's been the shop's handling of the case.

In my experience, if you have a frame replacement under warranty with Specialized, you will receive a current model-year replacement, and generally one trim level higher. So if you have a 2013 Stumpjumper comp you will receive a 2015 Stumpjumper elite in replacement. Have an Expert? You get an S-works replacement. I don't know if this is official policy, but it's been consistent from my experience.

I just wanted to point out that after 5 years, you are not guaranteed a replacement even though it is a "lifetime" warranty.
  • + 4
 not true. I've seen specialized turn a broken epic (when they were road bikes around 1990...alloy lugged carbon) into a 2014 sworks tarmac. cannondale similarly will toss fancy bikes when the original 'barn' frames crack.
Alot of how warranties are handled comes down to the bike shop, the regional rep, then the company. unless it's just a bad company.
  • + 1
 TheRaven@ I know you have had great service from Specialized but NOT me, and I have 5 spez bikes. Try getting a chain stay for an aluminum Enduro. . . .
  • + 1
 Recently cracked a chain stay on my nearly 5 year old specialized pitch. Got warrantied, no questions! And that model hasn't even been in production for years...got turned into a HT design : ( It will be hard for me to buy Evil until they close this huge difference in warranty policies
  • - 4
flag mateo5 (Nov 19, 2015 at 6:26) (Below Threshold)
 All you people complaining about this awesome bike should just keep it to yourselves! If you haven't ridden an Evil bike, and are just repeating comments you read on some forum just please STFU!

These are amazing bikes with probably the best suspension design out there. I don't know about there customer service in the past, but as of today, they have been nothing but great. And about price, these are incredibly well priced for full carbon frame in one the best factories out there! (Yeti SB6C, Intense Tracer frame is 3200 vs 2800 for Insurgent) Of course they won't have the same warranty capabilities as HUGE ass brands like the ones mentioned or Specialized! But this is the choice of customers who want something else, something with character and PROVEN capabilities!
About the seat angle, my old Slash had a way slacker seat tube angle and I could still pedal it over any climb, no Trek athletes seem to be complaining too much either. So in the end it's how you feel on board you bike that matters. And I'M SURE the Insurgent will not disappoint! Haters gonna hate, potatoes will potate, but with a name like Evil, do you think they care?
  • + 4
 Erm ridden and owned an Evil bike and do has 2 friends, my Revolt cracked (not under my ownership but it did and it's well known to be not the only one). The other 2 guys have Undeads, both cracked unfortunately(1 frame in 2 places). Both the guys have also had issues getting em warrantied and were without frames for a number of months not weeks. They are beautiful bikes, I won't deny that but in all honesty, when you see this failure in people's bikes you know you wonder if you'd spend that cash again.
  • - 2
 Evil has really stepped up you guys.

Before they swapped factories they really could not do anything, and now they have stopped making the undead and uprising. Ah friend of mye still got a new rear triangle for his Undead, and also 20% discount on a new The Following.

Once you ride Evil Bikes, all your bickering becomes irrelevant.

Just try them...
  • + 13
 I'm sorry but that was one of the least informative reviews I've ever read. It was better off as a "First Ride" type review. This is arguably the most hyped new enduro rig and all we get is 'goes uphill decently, descends like a bat out of hell' and some pretty pictures. I demoed the Insurgent this weekend and I know it rips. But how does it stack up to the Nomad? The Reign? Capra?...How is the fit? Is it best suited for flowy trails or chunder?

The People want to know
  • + 61
 I think there's a good deal of information in the review, but here are a few quick comparisons:

vs. Nomad: The Insurgent feels more low slung, with a carvier feel in the corners. The rear suspension doesn't feel as bottomless as the Nomad does, but it does feel more supple initially.

vs. Capra: The Insurgent's center of gravity and its top tube are lower making it easier to really push into corners. The Capra is poppier, with a more progressive suspension feel, while the Insurgent feels more plush, but also more eager to go through its travel.

vs. Reign: The suspension feel while descending is actually quite similar to the Reign, although the Reign is even more of a plow bike, one that wants to crush everything in its way. The Insurgent is a little more maneuverable, especially at slower speeds.

All of those bikes are excellent in their own rights - there's not one that really stands head and shoulders above the rest.

Flowy trails or chunder: Whatever your heart desires. It's a very well rounded machine, and depending on the built kit and geo position you can make it more of a trail bike or a mini-DH rig.
  • + 3
 I wouldn't say it was completely uninformative, but I would've appreciated more then a short paragraph on the suspension.
  • + 15
 I am one of The People and I don't give a much shit how does it compare. I will tell you why. It is interesting to hear it from Mike though. Quite honestly I am getting tired of people demanding too much comparison stuff since I wrote a few articles and it ain't easy. They were pathetic indeed, but it gives me a glimpse that once you get to review an amazing bike you want to write loads about it and you are running into TL;DR situation with that bike alone. If you are to add a comparison you are totally in TL;DR territory. So what reviewers would have to do is to write a shoot out article in parallell with a link to it. Perhaps it's a good idea, or it can be solved just like Mike did it here.

However on top of all things "informative article" is an utopia. Being in position to buy one of top bikes and remain unsure (as everyone would since differences are so little) is a messed up situation. Paradox of choice leaves you wondering for weeks if not months and once you get caught in that "what's the most sensible choice" nightmare you end up dissatisfied with whatever you picked, because there is no way you will not have second thoughts if you made a right choice. Then you have to understand that reviewers are filters and it is impossible to be objective here: each of of them has their own cognition and preference (they are humans for fks sake) and as objective as they try to remain they will always give you an angle. Just like you look for certain things in a bike, they are when they review shit. If you do feel like you need to do KNOW, then go on several demo day sessions and find out for yourself. That will leave you going around the place for a year or so and once you decide what you think suits you, there is a new bike coming out, leaving you in that stupid misery again.

There are minimal differences between frames and 99% of those bikes run save components on them. Hey you The People - get it for fks sake. It's no glory nor shame to ride a bike of some kind. It's a bike for fks sake.
  • + 5
 Yea I don't get it either, it's as if people want their bike picked out for them. Just tell me which one to buy. It's too subjective, can't do that- and do you really want someone to tell you which bike? Let your journey to your new bike be filled with reading, analysis and deliberation... maybe even some anxiety... the way it should be.
  • + 2
 When I had an 2010 stumpjumper i had niggles about travel being too plush, brain being useless (the bike's) and head angle too steep. Then i bought a 2012 Endorphin. That was a typology/generational change, from something set up as long travel xc/trail bike to something that early on was on the 'aggressive' side. All the bikes in this newer category are very probably damn fine as everybody is telling you. Demo'd an Ibis Mojo HD3 in Moab in spring. Couldn't tell the difference to my Knolly. Yes, suspension was shit because it was a damn rental bike not fettled to personal perfection on always the same trail by me. Also I could not tell because all trails were new to me. There were slight biases, for example it climbed interestingly with the DW Link but well. I buy what you I like instinctively from that top crop. And if you are wondering because you think if i spend that much it better be perfect then spend less - It means you are in over your head - gambling ; )
  • + 3
 I agree with mikekazime, Waki, and everyone else out there that's said it. All of the bikes out there today are rockin' rigs.

I'll also agree with DARKSTAR63 that a lot of people seem to want their bikes picked out for them. You always know these guys because they give no real account of what they just bought beyond an echo of what a sales person or reviewer told them.

Once you choose whatever it is you pick, you REALLY MUST be prepared to ride around or try to deal with in some way it's (the bike or frame) shortcomings. All designs are going to have a shortcoming or three and more often then not, what exactly winds up being what you perceive to be a shortcoming may not be what was talked about in a review.

I finally updated my AM rig to a Canfield Balance from an '08 Khyber Elite. I loved that bike, but I can officially say that the Balance is head and shoulders above and beyond the Khyber in terms of geo (and it's effects) alone. The shortcomings I see with the bike? The BB IS LOW!!! And I'm not down with the CCDB. I think the middle position on a Monarch RC3 Plus is superior to the Cane Creek climb switch. The CCDB also feels like it desperately needs some end stroke ramp up.

But I can deal with these issues and will do it happily. They are minor compared to the gains.
  • - 5
flag WAKIdesigns (Nov 16, 2015 at 6:03) (Below Threshold)
 It's a different thing when you write: I rode Mojo HD3 - how does it compare to INsurgent? VS - I want a complete shoot out between bikes! What is the best ENduro bike?!
  • + 0
 Shoot outs aren't as informative as people would hope. Not these days when most of the bikes are well sorted and well spec'd. I'm not saying useless, but not overwhelmingly enlightening either. You usually get this = All of these bikes were great, bike A perhaps was the best descender, but tester B didn't agree he liked bike C. It's useful to have there reviews. I like to know things about the bike, what people thought and what issues if any they had. I very rarely makes a decision for me personally though.
  • + 7
 tl;dr

too much consumer choice + ADD + time poverty + impatience + wanting a "perfect bike" + unwilling to risk a purchase + sheep/herd consumer mentality = FAIL
  • + 6
 Your formula is quite invalid @gnarbar. Since 2005 "Too much consumer choice" is a constant, close to infinity so it may as well equal zero. I'd say:
Dt X B2 X (Ar / (1/Rh))= pre purchase misery level
Decision taking time
B2-budget squared
Ar - articles read
Rh - riding time

If we change B2 to B3 we get formula for post purchase rationalization.
  • + 3
 I Iike that. Rh is a variable through winter and accounts for heightened levels of pre-2016 new model anxiety and insecurity due to peer group pressure/marketing hype factor
  • + 2
 I do not really like bike "shootouts" as they tend to become overly biased in their X vs.Y format, but I believe it is very useful to the reader if there is a reasonable level of comparison. And in my opinion, there is a big difference between a shootout and a simple and relate-able comparison.
The goal of a shootout is always to show a clear winner. Hey look! We have a staff pick! This can be useful for things that are less dependent on personal preference.
A comparison can be used to articulate subtleties and differences, without spinning one or the other as being better or worse. Simply different for whatever reason. It is then up to the reader to extrapolate if any of those differences is better or worse for them individually. The way @mikekazimer did this above is excellent!
It is impossible Not to compare things. The whole foundation behind forming an opinion in the first place is through comparison. If a reviewer can articulate the comparisons they are instinctively making and the nuances that set them apart, it helps the readers find a baseline from which they can relate to and begin to form an understanding.
If a reviewer is giving their opinion on something, it is Crucial to know what they are comparing it to and why.
  • + 1
 Hehe, my problem is more sophisticated. I know that most of bikes would suite me, but Ms are too small and Ls are too large ;-) So I spend my time calculating effective tt, effective effective tt (think Knolly approach to ett which is ett calculated on a typical seat level, not on a stack level). One good thing about it - I had to learn trigonometry one more time, now i feel like back in school ;-)
  • + 1
 You may be approaching that incorrectly @lkubica the number you want to compare is reach. And yes, some mediums run large and some larges run small. Top tube is a good rough estimator but it's not the end all because if you have a bike with a slack seat tube compared to another bike they could have the same effective tt but the one with the slacker seat tube will feel a lot smaller when standing, even just when pedaling because of how forward the bb is.
  • + 1
 Well, not quite. My problem is short torso and long legs (think 34.5 inseam an 5'11). Long reach is not a problem for me, but I hate long etts. Currently I run a large with 615 ett ( 450 reach) and it is my limit of comfort (with 35cm stem). On the other hand most mediums with ~400 seat tube mean 150 seatpost at minimum insert - not quite acceptable for me.
  • - 1
 Calculating... Bike is a whole thing. It is like a dish - you can't just add more sugar or salt to make it taste better. I rode 26" bikes like Glory, Epic or Process 167, while well Stumpy 29 evo in large felt nimble. Suspension plays a huge role. Just pump a bit more or less air into fork and you'll discover a new world. I was propelling this short chainstay poppiness bullcrap no further than a year ago. Want a poppy bike, take 2 clicks off rebound. It's insane how people go into geo. Being between M and L? c'm on man...
  • + 0
 That makes some sense to me- I guess I just personally put very little emphasis on how the bike feels seated, but that's most likely because it just seems to work itself out for me. I always have to have a 40mmish stem, so that is not ever used for adjustment on my bikes. I will adjust the saddle forward or aft to fine tune seated cockpit length. The two numbers will always change together as you know, so if a large is feeling too large with a 35mm stem perhaps a medium is then in order. I just think reach is the more important figure since its so important to the handling and feel. It actually just occurred to me that I myself ride a Trek Medium (18.5) which is the bigger of the two "mediums" they offer. reach sits a 425mm and the ETT is 600. I am only 5'8" but I feel as though it fits quite well and I could also pretty easily see myself riding most manufacturer larges. This bike, the Evil reviewed here- I would absolutely pick the Medium.
  • + 4
 Suspension does play a huge role, but so does "how you feel" on that bike. If it was "JUST SUSPENSION" I'd get another old a$$ Khyber and keep on rockin'. But guess what, Stack height and BB make a difference as well. The geo numbers that people have been talking about above relate to fit in the cockpit, but what numbers relate to how well a bike can track and how well it communicates that information back to you as the rider?

I keep going back to the Khyber example because it was typical (albeit less so) of bikes from the day. Shorter and taller. And we all know that combo doesn't carry speed as well as a low and long one. And that was THE FIRST THING I noticed on the Balance. It felt more stable AND comfortable when leaved over at speed. That was tough to do on the Khyber because of how tall it was. You were always too far from the contact patch and the bike never felt neutral. Even after doing considerable work on fork and shock setup as well as tire pressures. OTOH, I felt comfortable right away on the Balance without doing 5h1t to the suspension.

Long TT with low stand over makes it that much easier to weight the BB/Pedals mid-corner. Long WB means a mid-corner push run's it's course slower. You don't immediately end up on your head. Same goes for the rear.

The newer stuff kicks a$$ because of revised geo more than anything else. Otherwise one could just put DVO bling on a Trek Y-11 and turn into a rock star.
  • + 0
 I rather meant that it is a big part of the whole package not the base of it. Frame with good geo is the base but we can't just assume that when geo is dialled by someone else, all the rest of igredients fall into place and as if by magic we are all gods of suspension or cockpit setup cuz we have Pinkbike, not Bike Radar account. I don't know how to make a great setup. I just don't fkng know, even though I used bracketing to tune the fork. My Nomad felt great, I still can't tune my blur so I feel at home. On HT I feel best with fork with 10-15 of sag and next to no compression because each bigger bump kicks the front enough to the air for the rear to not kick me forward. I prefer to be super loose on HT than stable in places and almost dead in other. Is that good? I don't know! All I know by following people on long travel FS bikes that I stick t them only when bike is virtually rigid. I also rode different bikes on demo days and I felt right at home with some and crap on others. I rode waaaay too short bike of my wife and I was able to manage it. My friend climbed the local killer climb on Reign X that few seasoned XCers do on XC racing bikes. Hell I made it almost to the top on a day I felt weak. I spinned out on second last step. At the end of the day it is you who is the biggest part and we are not all going for super lap times, thanks to one click or one degree angle or one cm of Reach, no matter how much we pretend to.
  • + 1
 Geo numbers on the surface give a vague picture of how the bike will ride, but they give a very good indication of how the bike will fit. For me, I look for a fit that works first and foremost. It doesn't have to be Exact of course, but it's gotta be within reach. Reach, seat tube angle, and stack height for fit for starters. My Nomad 3 fits me better than my previous bike ever could, and as a result it does a lot of things a lot better than my previous bike ever could despite its "ride geo", weight and travel numbers clearly indicating otherwise. Sum of all parts I suppose, but feeling comfortable on the bike trumps all.
  • + 14
 Not drilling holes for a water bottle when you have so much space is just stupid. Leaving so little space for the chain to run is also stupid. silence must be more important than whatever stiffness gained by that swing arm.
  • + 3
 Yep, I'd understand if there wasn't any room but you could park a bus on that downtube. Having a bottle cage, pump and tube on my bike has become the norm now. This could actually put me off the bike since it forces me to carry water on my back.
  • + 0
 imagine the problem if the frames started cracking around the water bottle holes, best not put any in then to be on the safe side eh
  • + 1
 It *did* put me and others off the bike. That and the slack st angle. Some unfortunate oversights there, fer sher.
  • - 4
flag mateo5 (Nov 19, 2015 at 6:25) (Below Threshold)
 How can 'amount of noise' be more important than frame STIFFNESS?? wtf? You're just wrong.
Maybe for riders that don't push the limits of their bikes that's true... But your not buying and Evil Insurgent to take down a stroll on a park with mom's pushing sleeping babies on carriages. At least I hope your don't!
  • + 6
 Whoa someone hasn't had their morning coffee. But it seems like many other companies can make plentiful space for a chain while still maintain a stiff rear end. But noise coming from a bike is a big deal, I love a silent bike and I think it makes riding more enjoyable.
  • - 1
 You can always put some extra material on the chain stay to make sure it's not slapping too hard. It's not like you're going to go crazy because of the sound... The other e-thirteen chain tensioner should make it more quiet. These are fixable issues.
  • + 1
 The thing with a lower pulley is that it doesn't effect the chain slap above the chainstay BUT I do agree, there are plenty of ways of making a bike quiet (Velcro, mastic tape, inner tubes) and more companies are embracing that with rubber on the chain/seat stays but it is still something you want to minimize.
  • + 0
 Yeah I definitely agree on that.. And of course I prefer a quite-er bike. My point is that noise from chain slap over 'swingarm dh-stiffness' can not be a deal breaker.
  • + 16
 What ever happened to the Evil the following ride review ?
  • + 1
 Came to say the same thing. I LOVE my Following, but still like reading reviews!
  • + 11
 Having owned bikes from SC, Ibis and now Evil I can say that the customer support I have received from Evil is as good as Ibis "which was very good" and better than SC. The insurgent is a weapon that was built for riders who like to shred. No other bike I have ridden has been as much fun. This bike is not for everyone but for the right owner it is an amazing rig.
  • + 4
 I dunno I think Ibis is pretty unique in the business. I've called them several times and every time someone answers my call within a couple of rings (no Press 1 for Service, Press 2 for Hours crap). They know their stuff and answer my questions in that one call. They even sent me a new Ti-Bolt free for my Mojo HD - I didn't even pay postage! Evil have been fine but I don't think anyone is as good as Ibis.
  • + 10
 I bought One of these from Kevin and Matt. All I did was call. They're super cool, easy to talk to, and quick with shipping. The true disaster was the dealings I had with YT trying to get one of their bikes. Night and day better. The bike feels wonderful, too. Now if it would just stop snowing...
  • + 8
 I´ve had no problems with mine. Fantastic to ride, and seems very durable.
I actually find it very quiet as well.

Mine weighs 12,4 kg.... With Alu bar.
  • + 10
 Looks like another cracker from evil.
  • + 2
 I see what you did there.
  • + 5
 Evils reputation when it comes to, well pretty much building bikes out of anything (other than steel hardtails) + a chain running that close to a swingarm?

What could possibly go wrong?
  • + 5
 Does the suspension feel change under hard braking? Fairly informative review but you forgot to address the biggest complaint with single pivot bikes.
  • + 1
 I have an uprising (same design) and i would ague it feels more neutral under braking than my demo 8.
  • + 3
 Those of you doubting the quality of these frame nees not worry. The following and Yellow destroyer feature here are different beasts all togetherz frame build quality is up there with Santa Cruz. The killer for me however is that seat angle. This new long-low-slack geo is fine for short-average legged people but if you have log legs your screwed. I had to sell my following purely because I started to get knee problems with the pedals being so out in front of me. If I put the saddle back, the reach was too long. This is why the Capra is such a good ride. Slack front end by steep seat angle. If Evil steepen those seat angles I'm in, but sadly the frames aren't for me. Gutted.
  • + 1
 how tall are you?
  • + 2
 6'1.5" with 36" inseam
  • + 1
 shit, thats literally my exact size
  • + 5
 "delivers a ripping good time. "

Has Enid Blyton started writing for Pinkbike?
  • + 2
 pip pip
  • + 3
 ...and after the ride, we all went home for scones and lashings of ginger beer
  • + 2
 OK, so I demo'd the Insurgent today. And I have to say, I totally feel every reviewers dilemma reviewing this bike, you just CANT do it without sounding totally cliché, and without adding the "its really true" caveat. This thing was insane, I felt like a kid again. Its like the bike was almost invisible, and your "will" is what remained, flick here, whip there, snap this and that corner. You really go down "looking" for a challenge, a root to pop off, something. So put in my order for the framset right after. And now I'm a little nervous for my safety for how invincible that bike made me feel.
  • + 2
 weight complaints about a full bike are so stupid without referring to spec (the frame weighs within 200-300 grams from the lighter rivals in this category (same as a nomad, a bit more than a patrol or dune ...) - lyrik fork,atlas cranks,1800+gr carbon wheelset,VERY heavy xt cassette (1 lbs)... it all adds up. sure, you cant built it easily at 27lbs, but sub 30 can be achived without major issues.
  • + 3
 Mike,

I noticed you aren't running the custom bashguard for this bike, you also mentioned how in the low position short cranks should be used. Did you find yourself hitting stuff with the chainring?
  • + 3
 I didn't have any issues smacking the chainring, but I don't usually have that problem with any bike. The trails I ride tend to be rootier vs. rocky, so if I do happen so hit something there's not as much damage.
  • + 5
 Evil has changed factories! The new factory make bikes for many well-known, high end brands.
  • + 1
 do you know who else they produce for?
  • + 5
 Am I the only one still wondering where the hell the Following review is??!!
  • + 2
 Apparently Frown Don't know what's going on with that...
  • + 1
 Hey Mike. Thanks for the review. You are exactly my size. Just wondering how you found the fit on the Large. I usually ride large bikes but with these new slack, long front center bikes like the Insurgent the wheel base gets really long (47.3") which can make them a little sluggish in tight turns and less flickable. Any thought about whether a Medium would've fit better for our size.
I rode a medium Following at Interbike and it felt pretty good.
  • + 1
 16.7" seat tube on the medium Insurgent. Cant see how that would work for anyone near the 6' mark.
  • + 1
 Hey I've been waiting for months for the Following review. Bought one anyways and never looked back. Service from Evil has been spot on. I've owned SC for years and have had good customer service and Evil has been just as good. I love their story. They have a soul and keep on trying. I've got time for that. EVILIVE
  • + 1
 @mikekazimer : Hey Mike, regarding the Seat Angle measurement, aren't modern seat angle measurements a bit misleading anyway?

In the past it was effectively the angle between the top of the seat tube and the bottom bracket but on modern bikes, if you follow the seat tube down the line rarely passes through the bottom bracket. It seems that what really matters should be a combination of seat tube angle and bottom bracket 'offset' (i.e. how far back from that line the bottom bracket center actually is). Looking at that Evil it looks like the BB center is several inches behind where the seattube line is.

...OR am I misunderstanding the measurement?
  • + 1
 This is why "Reach" and "Stack" came into existence. It makes so much more sense, take a while to re-learn Reach vs. TT length though,
  • + 1
 Such a sick bike! The frame is definitely different looking, in a way it's very sexy with its sleek lines and integrated chain guide. When the Insurgent was first introduced I was all about trading in my SC Bronson for one but after this review it makes me a little skiddish. I'll wait for a few more reviews to pop up and would like to demo one before I pull the trigger! After knowing Evil's past reputation only time will tell what these new bikes their producing will be like.....
  • + 1
 "It's heavier than my trail bike with a pike and lighter cranks, wheels, and tires.." Blaa bla bla. Listen to yourself people..
This bike's frame weighs the same as the majority of its competitors, put light parts on it and it's gonna be 28 lbs. Now go back to your usual commenting (cost too high, I've heard these crack, etc)
  • + 3
 Okey, did anyone see the photographer's name?(considering recent events)
Great bike, but I think 'The Following" was a tiny bit more revolutionary.
  • + 0
 Re: bike weight

This is not the full bike spec as supplied by Evil. For this article they took a bare frame and built it out not using the lightest components.

That said, this CF frame weighs about the same as the new Mega alloy frame. Weight alone can't be a good judgement for structual design, but it may be stoutly built.
  • + 0
 Evil bikes are amazing. Their customer service/commitment is appalling. If you, like me have an undead and you have warranty issues. Well, dream on. They're no longer made and the 3yr warranty that comes with the frame is a mere fantasy.

Rubbish bearings, a "paint crack" on the swingarm but at least it rides well. If they make a 650b DH frame, will indead owners be offered that as a replacement? I'd hope so.
  • + 2
 30 pounds 1x and carbon? 72.8 degree seat tube angle? Four volume spacers? Thanks, but no thanks. Slime ball green would be an argument, nonetheless.
  • + 3
 been trying to decide between a patrol or an insurgent. really dont know what to do.
  • + 4
 Patrol
  • + 2
 Test a 2012 Canfield One in both 7 and 8 " settings .

7" rear with 170 - 180 single crown fork would melt this thing and many other latest bikes .
  • + 2
 Dammit SRAM! We want a production model now!!!
(I know that I'll sound like a whining 3 year old, but scram has said that way too many times)
  • + 1
 *Sram
  • + 1
 Mike, what travel was the Lyrik you had on the bike. If you ride it at 170, do you think the experience would be much different at the 150-160 the bike was designed around?

Never mind, just saw you had it at 160
  • + 2
 The Insurgent fits into the 'goes uphill decently, descends like a bat out of hell' trope BECAUSE NO ONE LIKES CLIMBING
  • + 2
 Will I finally jump to the carbon/650b wagon ?
This could be the Evil cause.
  • + 1
 "nah"
  • + 1
 @mikekazimer Curious as to what wheels you used with this bike - they look wide? Tire look like the new Minion SS out back and DHF out front?
  • + 2
 Those are the Novatec Factor 327 wheels that were recently reviewed: www.pinkbike.com/news/novatec-factor-327-wheelset-review-2015.html. As for the tires, the bike is pictured with the Minion SS and the new Minion DHF 2.5 WT.
  • + 1
 How'd you get along with the new Maxxis tires? This combo is at the top of my list. What casing did you use on the Minion SS.
  • + 1
 @mikekazimer Very interesting (if not head-scratching) to see you run a Minion SS this time of the year in the PNW... Do you enjoy wrapping yourself around trees? Smile
  • + 1
 @raybao: Thanks for looking out for me, but these photos were taken before the full-on sloppiness arrived. That SS has since been replaced by a DHF to make sure I stay out of the trees.
  • + 1
 What's wrong with you guys, the slack/lame seat angle was perfectly fine on the RFX 4.0....? Why the logic and the critical thinking all of a sudden? Smile
  • + 1
 I had a carbon Evil. It was the worst DH bike I had. The swingarm was laterally very flexible. The Factory said it was for better corners. What?
  • + 1
 I feel like for a carbon bike, wouldn't they have it a little less than 30lbs?
  • - 2
 for reference, my stock alu trek remedy 29er has less travel, but an XL frame and large sized wheels only puts it 3 lbs heavier than this beaut
  • + 1
 My boss has an orange alpine with dvo forks, thompson dropper, hope cranks/brakes, only carbon is the bars, comes in at 29lbs...
  • + 5
 Depends on how much carbon has been used, maybe Evil have finally learnt their lesson and gone for a slightly higher weight to make a bike that wont crack. There is no doubt that every bike they make is a dream rig, But every bike they've done (apart from the following so far) ive seen crack.
That said, Orange and Trek are just as bad, and using thinner aluminium tubing to make a bike as light as carbon just seems like a dangerous game to me.
  • + 2
 My Enduro Carbon Expert size medium 28.3lbs, stock except for the tubeless set up, Spank Oozy pedals.
  • + 7
 It'd be easy to shave some weight by going with a less burly build kit - even picking a Pike over the Lyrik would reduce the weight by almost .5 pounds, and lighter wheels and cranks would drop it even further.
  • + 6
 You could easily make this bike weigh under 24lbs. Revelation WC, LB XC rims on tune hubs, Rocket Ron/NObby Nic combo, RF NEXT all over the place, XX1. One question - why would you?
  • + 1
 @bluumax less than 0.5% on an Orange five aint that bad fella!! (according to the Orange website)
  • + 2
 I have a Sanction without any carbon on it, weighs 31 lbs (14 kg) with supergravity tires. I heard the Nomads can go as low as 26.5 lbs (12 kg) with an all-Enve build.
  • + 1
 It's weighs a shit ton more when your boss is sat on it though ????
  • - 1
 Tyres are absolutely ruling the number on the scale as well as handling properties of the bike. If you ride a bike like Insurgent on local trails, which don't necessarily look like a WC DH course, you can probably go 1ply (Exo) front and 1,5ply (SGravity) back, maybe even good 1ply back, but once you enter park or Alps, such bike allows you to ride so fast that you maybe want full on 2ply front and back. That alone gives you directly 1-3lbs weight difference between builds. In general, once a bike like that gets to 29lbs anything under is jewelry and technical masturbation.

@Verbl-Kint your Santcion doesn't surprise me since latest breed of aluminium bits are only a tad heavier than most carbon parts. Think of frames, rims, handlebars. That is also the reason why carbon folks put their jewelry on the diet, sometimes crossing the threshold of durability. ENVE stuff from around 2010 wasn't cracking as much. THeir AM rim was 400g for 26, now it is the weight for a 29er. ZTR, then DT, WTB, even Superstar started making rims only a tad heavier than carbon and carbon rims had to get lighter to justify their price.
  • + 0
 I've not heard of any Sovereigns having problems...
  • + 1
 Only seen one cracked but either way the sov or the dj frames are pretty irrelevant to my point, the point i was trying to make is that with the new breed of aluminium frames that are nearly as light as carbon, you are definitely sacrificing strength.... take a look at Sudings GT he broke in Hafjell, its a prime example of the overuse of butted tubing. Im not a fan of carbon bikes, but if i was sat there looking at the same bike, one made of carbon and one made of Alu, both weighing exactly the same, i know which one id trust more.
  • - 2
 Totaly bluumax - but it is a matter of a threshold. I would totaly trust 471g alu rim over 473 carbon rim... I would totaly ride XC with 290g carbon rim, but I would never roll on sub 350 alu rim. Same with Frames - gimme a 2.8kg Nomad, no problem and please make Reign above 3kg for me to trust it as much as Nomad. Banshee Rune? No worries about durability what so ever. There is a threshold under which aluminium becomes stupid as well as there is another threshold above which carbon becomes questionable.

To give it some justice I slammed 2.4kg Blur TRc (incl. shock) into landing of 6m gap - several times. No problems so far. I also hit a rock on uphill with the swingarm and a big bit chipped off...
  • + 1
 With paper-thin casing tires..
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns you make a point but please validate it dude, show us the algorithm dude!
  • + 2
 @WAKIdesigns Show me a broken 2015 Reign, please. Alloy technology is not stuck in 1998. It's continuing to improve, and Giant seem to be one of the best at improving it.

I had a TRc, and it was strong and light at the cost of stiffness. I'm not the type of rider who likes being stuck to the ground. I like to pop out of corners, not wallow in them. It can take a hard landing, but that's because it rides like a wet noodle.
  • + 2
 About time you show us Waki just how big the drops and jumps you claim to nail on video methinks ;-)
  • + 1
 Eeerm, lower linkages of Reigns, Trances and Anthems are a common warranty claim. a friend of mine cracked the front triangle. 2010-2013 Treks alu chainstays were also notorious for cracking. Both companies are known for super light alu frames. I don't care, I rode 1.4kg coke can of a xc hardtail frame for 10 years as my second bike. I haven't cracked it. Sht happens always, yes. As to drops and jumps I don't ride anything big. I cased the gap jump on roller coaster in Hafjell several times because I suck, so I never made it smoothly to the top of the step up preceeding it. Also casing a jump is no reason to glory, no matter the size. Majority of people who fly huge stuff in park on DH bikes, cannot clear the first jump on most BMX tracks in the world. Neither can I. Size does not equal skill, little brain gets confused with big balls. Yes I have a small penis and I am talking out of my arse but Since majority of FS trail frames sit above 3kg w/o shock it seems weird when someone comes with one at 2.6. Just comparative masturbation - ignore me Wink
  • + 2
 nope, only video will do
  • + 1
 @WAKIdesigns I have warrantied two trek frames for cracking at the chainstays, correct. BUT! both were by the same goofy guy that admitted he loved throwing whips even where he knew he couldn't land them properly. He even said, "yea I whipped into a few trees on my first run down".. he has his fun!
  • + 2
 Dream bike. Too bad canadian dollar is not cooperating.
  • + 2
 Remarkable hoe you pay 2800 for frame only. It aint that good.
  • + 2
 some other frames may be more expensive while others may be cheaper, others may be better or worse, and some will look like shit. choice.....
  • + 0
 Says a man from a country with one of highest average salaries in the world, where lorry driver buys 3 bikes, goes to Malaga in spring and 3 week riding in Alps, spending few weekends a year in Hafjell, Åre, Järvså and what not. Cut it mate
  • + 0
 Frame Material; Unidirectional recycled black plastic dust bins. It's stronger, better, stiffer, lighter and faster than metal you know!
  • + 1
 it's off season, so Trail & All Mountain hardtail review train coming soon .. XX
  • + 3
 Would bang
  • + 1
 Such a sick looking bike, love seeing a small brand challenging the Giants! Who would take an Enduro over this?
  • + 1
 Evil......yes, I will order The Following , have a Spartan for all mnt. ????????
  • + 1
 Don't like the phrase 'chain slap'
  • + 2
 Good ol b ham
  • + 0
 I still dont get it. How does just a narrow wide mean no need for a bash ring?
  • + 1
 You boys over at Evil got any free samples?
  • + 1
 Wouldn't kick her outta bed for eating crackers
  • + 1
 I think it was a large size
  • + 1
 SRAM's response was the good old, “that one is pre-production” JA
  • + 1
 beauty, put a 36 on that and it's my perfect bike
  • + 2
 What?? No Chester?!
  • + 1
 Hmmm, A good day at the office....;-)
  • + 1
 Santa Cruz is now doing lifetime warranty on carbon frames.
  • + 1
 Yes but you gotta be carefull. It's not the lifetime of a human, it's the lifetime of a frame, and that time is setted to 8 years(thats what my LBS told me).
  • + 1
 Unless the warranty is different up north that is not what their website says...

"The warranty will be in effect for lifetime of the original, registered owner."
  • + 1
 Don't come up with a 15 years old frame, even if you are the original owner, they won't gonna replace it.
  • + 3
 Well no... cause they just started the lifetime warranty. Before that, like just a week or so ago, it was 5 years. Before that, IDK?

So no, they aren't going to replace a 15 year old frame right now...

But I'll tell you what, go buy a new SC, register the warranty, and hold on to that sucker for 15 years. Then go huck it off the top of a huge ladder drop and see if you can crack something. Then go see if they will still take care of you. And if not you can look me up on Pinkbike and tell me that you were right all along! Smile
  • + 1
 the 8years old thing, it's my LBS that told me that about a Santa cruz actually. If you go up in the comments, TheRaven explain exactly what am talking about. I'Il be more than happy if we can (really) now have a true lifetime warranty, but i doubt it.
  • + 1
 Does anybody know what front fender that is on the bike?
  • + 1
 evil are black, not yellow!
  • + 1
 Beautiful bike but let's just hope it's not made of cheese.
  • + 1
 Hoe how anyway
  • + 1
 @nilsfr unfassbar
  • - 1
 There is a new 27,5 Undead in the works!! Evil removed the 26 undead from their page
  • + 2
 Rumour or fact?
  • + 1
 factish Big Grin
  • + 1
 Proof...
  • + 0
 I'm not sold.
  • - 3
 Why is PB always making reviews about bikes I cant afford?
  • + 3
 It's an incentive to get off internet forums and make more money.
  • - 3
 Shut up and take my money.
  • - 2
 why the chain guide, 1 x 11 doesn't require one ??
  • + 6
 Narrow wide chains still drop once in a while.
  • + 3
 It's more of a preventative measure, and it also helps protect the carbon frame from chain slap. I did run the bike without it for a couple rides and didn't have any issues.
  • + 1
 Especially once parts involved get worn in and chunder is involved.
  • + 1
 and it is with an xt cassette and a sram mech?
  • + 2
 @mikekazimer, thanks for that, that gives me a good example of a reason to run one (protecting the carbon). Speaking from experience, just like you, I run 2 bikes with 1 x 11 and have never dropped a chain .. ever.
  • + 2
 Chain guides are still necessary for those who ride really fast through really rough types of trails. For most the chain won't drop if they have a RD with clutch. However, once the teeth have worn down a bit the chain may come off, which means times for a new chain ring.
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