Rachel Atherton is Back, No Perfect Runs & More Things We Learned from the Lenzerheide DH World Cup 2023

Jun 12, 2023 at 2:25
by Ed Spratt  
Vergier hovering into second place.

Lenzerheide provided an incredible start to the 2023 season as it kicked off the downhill season with dramatic and exhilarating racing that will be remembered for years to come. After the long off-season, it was great to be back to proper World Cup racing and we can't wait for the next round.

Before things kick off later this week in Leogang for round two, here are a few things we spotted from the opening round of the DH series.



The Queen of Downhill is Back


It's impossible to imagine how hard it must have been for Rachel Atherton to make her return to the tape this weekend in Lenzerheide after already achieving so much and being one of the sport's greatest riders. While Rachel has admitted she found it hard last week, the speed was clearly there when tested against the clock as she secured 2nd in both qualifying and semi-finals behind hard-charging 2022 series champion Camille Balanche. When it came to finals you could have thought we had gone back to Rachel's dominant period in downhill as she looked unstoppable on the Swiss course and held the overall lead through every split to the bottom and take home the win in incredible fashion. We can't wait to hopefully see more of Rachel at races this year.
Rachel takes her 40th World Cup win in spectacular fashion.



A Lot of Time Was Left on the Track


One stat we spotted while analysing the potential perfect run in Lenzerheide was the large amount of time that could have been picked up by the riders. In the Elite Women's race, the top three were separated by just 0.787 seconds and from combining the fastest split times we found there to be a perfect run that was 2.809 seconds fastest than the final winning time of Rachel Atherton. The largest amount of time seems to have been lost in the final three splits where none of the top three Elite Women held the fastest time. It was first-year Elite Gracey Hemstreet who seemed to master the bottom splits as she went fourth at split three before winning the final two splits. Split times in finals could be very interesting to follow this season as riders become fatigued from the short rest time between semi-finals and finals.
Loic Bruni full pin straight out the gate.

Looking at the Elite Men's racing we see slightly different results as the eventual top three traded bows down the course with Loic Bruni winning split one and three, Jordan taking split two and five then Loris Vergier going quickest at split four. Overall there was a 1.409-second gap between Jordan's winning time and the perfect run, as the top five were separated by a second this is not an insignificant amount of time. One similarity to the Elite Women is that Jordan's performance in the final splits seems to have been what clenched him the win. Jordan went 2nd in sector four before winning the final part of the track to the finish line. Whether this is fatigue from multiple race runs or just Jordan being better suited to this part of the track will be tested in Leogang this weekend. Riders will have to face a similar tough schedule but on a track that is a decent bit longer than the course in Lenzerheide.

You can view our full analysis of the Elite's racing in Lenzerheide here.



Jordan Williams and Jackson Goldstone are the Real Deal


A lot of the discourse heading into this season was whether Jordan Williams and Jackson Goldstone were real threats for the usual top Elite riders. Past years have seen the two young riders come close and even beat the fastest Elite times, but given the different timing of the Junior races we were never given a true direct comparison. Lenzerheide finally got the two rapid first-year Elite riders up alongside the World's best and they truly delivered with Jordan winning finals along with taking 6th in Qualifying and 9th in semi-finals. Sadly we weren't able to see a fully up-to-speed Jackson. Given the young Canadian is not at 100% an 11th in qualifying followed by 7th in semis and 6th in finals shows he is going to be right up there with Jordan once he is back to full health. Jordan has already reached the heights of Nico Vouilloz as he took the win during his first Elite year and we are excited to see where he goes from here.
What a start to Jordan Williams s elite career.



A Great Weekend for Specialized


Similar to the Yeti team's dominance at the second round of the Enduro World Cup in Derby the opening round was very much Specialized's weekend as they took the win in the Elite Men's semi-final followed by 1st, 3rd and 5th in finals. It was interesting to see that race winner Jordan Williams is not yet on the top-secret prototype being ridden by Loic Bruni and Finn Iles although we have heard he is riding a slightly modified version of the current Demo.
Finn Iles scrubbing his way down the Lenzerheide course.



Juniors Finally Get Broadcast Coverage


After years of Junior downhill racing being represented by numbers on a screen, it was amazing to finally have a live broadcast. While for some the jury is still out on the new production from Warner Bros. Discovery you have to give them credit for finally offering a chance to watch the Juniors, and at no cost. The new schedule does make it a tough week for the younger riders having practice straight after the track walk and being the first riders going against the clock with a Thursday qualifying session. Having a Junior rider on a team does seem pretty useful this season as they get to try out the course a day before the Elites. Hopefully, this may see more of the top teams bring on a few more younger riders in the coming years.
A dominant win for Erice Van Leuven.




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200 Comments
  • 235 29
 Jordan Williams wins on his elite debut. Mountain bike commentators, Jackson Goldstone is the real deal!
  • 66 12
 It's past the point of being embarrassing at this stage.
  • 121 18
 To be fair I did say that both riders are the real deal. Jordan's win was obviously incredible but you can't ignore the fact that an injured Jackson still came in sixth against a stacked field of Elites who are not injured.
  • 25 5
 Wears the right helmet
  • 27 26
 @edspratt: maybe, but we ignored gwin and best AP did not race. I think there is a time to say when Goldstone is injured...but nearly as much time was written about him as was Williams.

The fact is, we now actually know Jordan can win. We do not know that Jackson can.

That all said, this was such a good article.
  • 44 4
 @stunnanumma1: Yeah the injured-excuse-making is kind of cringe. Jackson was beating Jordan pretty consistently in past years and it felt like Jackson got the spotlight with Jordan getting a small mention. Now Jordan gets his first win and they're still being lumped together.
  • 27 1
 @edspratt: Nothing wrong with commenting on the two elite youngsters, and mentioning Jackson's lack of complete health and his finishing position. You talk about Jordan more in the section and also in the perfect run comparison, so I'm not sure what folks are clamouring about here ... the article title wasn't "Jordan Williams, new elite god", was it?

There's a lot written on Jordan, and rightfully so, on the home page. No need to whine about one article that was looking at a few other plots from the weekend.
  • 6 0
 @Lanebobane: I don't think it's injured-excuse-making so much as pointing out how well he did, while being not 100%. No one is saying Jackson would have won if he was healthy, just that he did great and maybe wasn't at his best.
  • 3 3
 @edspratt: your use of the word “but” is a sign the argument could have been framed better.
  • 8 0
 @adamkat: "the article title wasn't "Jordan Williams, new elite god", was it?"

"Jordan has already reached the heights of Nico Vouilloz"

Pretty close
  • 3 0
 @VtVolk: Hahaha you're not wrong! A little context would be appreciated, but I think most of us know Ed is referring to Jordan winning in his first elite race ever, something only Nico has done before. Although his was the '95 world champs so maybe Jordan's not that great after all (satire).
  • 11 0
 @adamkat: Loris finishing second flying way under the radar. Overcooks one section that cost him the race. Gonna make some noise this year.
  • 9 1
 @stunnanumma1: Gwin is not really a factor that Jordan or Jackson needs to worry about.
  • 11 0
 Time difference is one thing, but Jordan's run looked incredibly smooth, other riders were on the edge, he looked like it was nothing special. This kid is simply brilliant on a bike.
  • 5 1
 Find at funny that both his teammates and his biggest rival have coveted helmet, and then he beats them all without the fancy proto bike
  • 4 0
 @toad321: Red Bull probably saw that coming and dropped out.
  • 14 3
 @Lanebobane: Goldstone had his ruptured appendix removed 11 days before this event.....to get 6th in a WC after real surgery, is quite a feat.
  • 3 0
 And was not invited at Hardline.. quite unfair TBH seeing the result.
  • 1 0
 @lkubica: true... at least in our opinions.

Something I disagree with in the article is very semantic: I think the only way you win a race this season, especially if AP is running, is if you have a perfect run. AI know what the "perfect run" analysis is and I like it, but I think this season, whatever is the winning run...is probably the perfect run.
  • 5 0
 I've already said it, some fools downvoted me and called it dumb but Jordans fastest times (races that he won last year) were an good deal faster than Jacksons fastest times when compared to the elites at those races. So when put them both in elites, on their best day Jordan is faster and is going to do better in a field with more depth. That's not to say Jackson isn't going to win one, I think he is. Jordan has already won one.
  • 3 0
 @adamkat: Yeah man it's a 6th place it's hell good. Finns first Elite season was 56, 19, 40, 39, 8, 5, 25, 17, 14. Daprela managed 11, 3, 6, 7 in that funny 2020 season. Jacksons result was hell good, sick or not.
  • 2 0
 @VtVolk: I am a fan of Jordan being the next Alien he certainly rides like one but you can't say he's reached those heights already. Nico won how many? It's probably not going to happen in this era of DH there is too much depth, Nico did it when his competition were as interested in the party's as the racing.
  • 5 1
 @tadabing: Yeah as soon as Loris was on I thought ahh here we go again Loris spoils the fairy tale, but he crashed out. Seriously how many times has there been an epic race where someone puts down a heater and looks like they're going to get their first win only for Loris and Loic to come down and put a whole second into their time effortlessly. Those dudes are underrated.
  • 3 0
 @bikes-arent-real: I'd say the top Frenchies are all highly rated for good reason.
  • 3 0
 @suspended-flesh: Yes but I don't think they're talked about in the same way we talk about Nico, Hill, Greg and Peaty. When in all honesty they're probably better, given the level of competition and how much they have pushed it.
  • 1 0
 where the heck is the winning run?
  • 2 0
 @bikes-arent-real: I agree. Especially when Bruni has 5 Elite World Championships including 3 in a row. Not sure what else he needs to do except a couple more overalls.
  • 1 3
 Is Acne a sign of superhero talent?
  • 1 1
 @edspratt: lmao
  • 2 0
 @adamkat: I guess I just don't care for those details. Unless they're going to interview every athlete and ask "were you sick? did you sleep well? did you eat a good breakfast?", giving that kind of context for select athletes seems like favoritism.
  • 2 0
 @Lanebobane: Fair enough, although he wasn't just recovering from a cold or something. Whenever someone races following a serious injury or illness, we usually hear about it, especially if they perform well. All the power to you if you don't give af though haha
  • 1 0
 @bikes-arent-real: barely any competition in those days to be fair though
  • 1 2
 @tadabing: loris is never under the radar. the racing cohort all know he is on par with loic and amaury
  • 96 13
 And while Redbull wasn't perfect I thought Discovery was a definite step down in quality. Commentators not providing much (any?) additional insight over what most interested observers could provide, little research shown. Cedric was excited to have spotted the Canyon KIS steering "suspension" (sic - although god knows what my non-existent second language would be like) as if it hasn't been around and publicised - even in the run up to the event. Tech issues also with timing & cameras and still not sure what the point of semis is other than a stepping stone to narrowing the field.
  • 69 5
 yup, the commentators were really bad. Apart from the really pointless comments, it also took them like 15 seconds to notice new split times. Cedric was more focused on riders' rear tires I guess. The splits were also too few and there was no split analysis comparing the riders either.
  • 1 0
 Comment posted twice, deleted
  • 26 0
 I also needed to pull up the semifinals results to be able to keep up with who's coming up next and how many riders where left.
  • 6 0
 @f00bar: Agreed and you would have thought they would have been really focused on the splits as it would give them something new to discuss... It took them so long to spot them at times I wondered if their screens were showing them. Ours weren't always.
Anyway, as I said, a low quality baseline hopefully means they can only get better.
  • 21 1
 It's the very first time for this new format, I think it would be fair to give them some time to develop a chemistry with each other. I remember when Rob went to Redbull and everyone was so upset that they would have to listen to a sober Rob that wouldn't offend anyone. He became the voice of the sport after that.
  • 31 1
 I didn't think Discovery did that poor a job, a bit of a step down from what we're used to from RB, but not as much as people are whining about.
Cedric could do with the commentator training Rob had, and they need to think about banner graphics for the likes of "up next" and run to run comparisons, but I don't think there were any huge deal breakers.
The long drone panshot was good but went on for half a second too long into the woods where the camera couldn't cope with the speckled light and the drone pulling up, but timing the cuts between cameras is something RB took a while to get good at
  • 7 2
 @ROOTminus1: Yeah I'm with you, was totally fine. What they can work on is the buildup over the course of the race and managing the energy. People forget that RB also had occasionnally terrible broadcasts when the platform wasn't working or stuck at 480p, the camera angles were poor and barely showed anything interesting, and that Claudio was a mediocre commentator (Elliot was a HUGE upgrade and should be the next guy pulled in to the Discovery+ world). I left the broadcasts willing to pay for access, which I hadn't anticipated, but expect them to figure things out as the year progresses.
  • 24 0
 @f00bar: The lack of focus on split times / how many riders are left are my most critical points regarding the new commentary - it's a race against the clock and this took out a lot of suspense when watching and I often had the urge to wake them up and point out that someone surprisingly went green 30s ago or is catching up time in sections where everyone else was losing time before.

I didn't expect them to match Rob and don't think it was a complete disaster. They can surely improve with time. But definitely a lot of potential for offering more useful insights and balancing the hype commentary. With Cedric I had the feeling that he often lacked the English vocabulary to make his points clear but might also have been the nerves.

And please never ever again skip nearly the full run of Danny Hart to show and say absolutely nothing interesting about the riders waiting at the top!
  • 2 0
 I would not complain about English comments...I tried to listen to the French comments, but they were much worse. Soporific, one would have thought that they were commenting on a petanque match... One of the two even managed to scratch the names of the French riders, which is to say how well he knows the discipline...
  • 6 0
 @ROOTminus1: Agreed. There were things they'll need to clean up, no doubt, but I think it was decent overall for a first kick at the can. Cedric has the energy (although I think he'll need to learn to manage it), so he just needs a bit of practice. Let's not forget how bad the commentating has been in the past. If that's the worst it can get with these two, we'll be alright.

The production was a bit weird for me (random cuts to the nervous guy in the warm up section spewing worthless chatter, random scenic shots in the middle of race runs, poor drone quality, no remaining riders list graphics), but it was nice to watch a decent portion of the finals runs. Even RB was picking up video 1-2 mins into the run at most events. I know Lenzerheide is a short track, but if that continues at Leogang and beyond, that'll be pretty awesome.
  • 4 0
 I thought the coverage was ok - and like others here, I expect they will figure a few things out as the season progresses. I subscribed to GCN+ because I found an article saying Discovery+ was not carrying the races in the US (Not sure if that is true or not). The main disadvantage for me is that GCN+ has no Roku app, so I have to connect a PC to my TV - Red Bull was nice in that respect. I miss Rob Warner. Probably just a familiarity thing, but it was not quite as exciting without his commentary. I miss Claudio too - just the right amount of "goofy" to make it all work. I also miss the short lead-up videos that usually start around Wednesday, with track previews, interviews, qualifier updates, etc. Those help build up the excitement for the main race. Finally, when I tuned in Saturday morning at 6:45 - the first thing I want to see is the results from the semi-final (that happened while I was asleep)...I don't think we found out the race order until a few seconds before the first rider started.
  • 9 1
 Why did they keep showing the team manager or owner while a rider was on track? I'm here for the racing, not the reaction shots.

Also, thought it was odd they didn't mention Anna Newkirk's wild looking Contra ride. Like they hadn't done any pre-work outside of looking at the rider's team name. Bike and rider crushed BTW. So shiny.
  • 7 1
 I thought they did great for a first commentary in a new format for a new season. I think Ric did a great job holding it all together and Cedric brought a great DH background knowledge and excitability to it. They were a little behind on a couple things, but we are all watching the same thing... its ok. Worthy replacements, imho. Its only going to get better. The only thing that really bugged me was a lack of knowing who was coming up next. I wish there would've been a starting list shown more often.
  • 7 0
 As a profound introvert,those two on commentary are what extroverts sound like to ours ears ALL the time.Smile
  • 2 4
 Cameras where too far from the rider not showing closer action except the yhe drone. There were no slow motion replays... Track wasn't fully covered... Pretty lame and boring TBH
  • 5 0
 And, for the course preview, just keep it on the rider, don't cut back to Cedric watching it on a tablet.
  • 1 0
 Its their first time so we can give them a break and let them build from their mistakes. But something that is not fixable is the strong and hard to follow Iris/scotish accent of the main commentator... couldnt understand shit
  • 1 0
 @maxnomas: I appreciate you couldn't understand Ric, but his accent is pretty mild as far as these things go.
  • 1 0
 @scary1: I once attended three academic conferences back to back. A colleague of mine, who was exhausted after only attending the third one, told me, "your secret is that you're so extroverted, you actually suck energy out of introverts". I though that was unfair as really I'm just trying to prevent the conversation from flagging!
  • 3 0
 @adamkat: I agree with you about Cedric's commentary. I am sure his French commentary is better than his english. Bit more practice and he'll sort it. Can't beat an enthusiastic commentor.
  • 4 0
 That coverage was worse than the old Freecaster days. Cedric needs to practice his English more and annunciate. They need to hire Elliot Jackson. They could use a proper pre-race show and interviews. They need to bring in updates in non critical times like when they cut to athletes warming up in the middle of Danny Hart’s run. They missed interviewing Rachel at the line after her historic race run. There was dead air from the lack of commentary or insights being fed to them by their production team. Their mics need to be branded better so we know who we are watching. They need better apparel for the interviewers and commentators. There was an overall lack of excitement. Next to no music to highlight exciting or tense moments. I can’t believe how poor quality it all was. I figured it would be better than Red Bull considering the amount of money and resources from Warner Discovery, but apparently their budget is quite small.
  • 1 0
 @chillionaire360: Next level Bro!... They r bringing MTB into a new Eraa!... ( Of deception again ..)
  • 1 0
 @djyosh: That was ridiculous!!! So not needed. Just show the run. If the rider was talking, I want to hear that more than Cedric.
  • 46 2
 Rachel winning her first race at 35 after a 5 year hiatus was the highlight for me. This begs the question, what is the current level of womes DH? We all know Rachel in her heydays was something else, but I honestly didn't expect her to win straight out of the gate. Curious to see what the rest of the season brings, but it will be interesting for sure.
  • 24 0
 My two thoughts were: (1) who knows what kind of resources/facilities the Athertons have access to. Just because she hasn't started races doesn't mean she hasn't been riding terrain that would keep her in shape for World Cups and more importantly (2) who knows what kind of benefit taking such a long break has on one's mental health. Being charged up and ready to race again is so important. Look at Tahnee's interview in Cathro's post-race video. It didn't seem like she wanted to be there at all. Hard to full-send it when you're in that mental space.
  • 15 1
 The current level is - as high as it has ever been. Nina, Cammie, Marine looking great - Phoebe & Jenna in the mix w/ Jenna give a strong run for the money... Tahnee is back. This is just a few of them. Rachel simply had a stunning run and this speaks to her level of skill for sure. They also don't have nearly the aggro attitude the guys have and in my view, they are thinking much more about these runs and that they don't have to be tip-top speed constantly and at the same speed as mens. And Lenzerheide is sliiiiiiiick, completely insane when wet. They also have this new semi / final in the same day thing to figure out.

As a guy I've only gotten into womens racing in the past 6-7 years but in my view, what we were seeing in 2018/19 vs. now is much different, overall speed per distance is faster, but more so - so many woman have so much skill that even if Rachel swoops in & wins every race (not gonna happen) this is easily gonna be a baller season for women. They are as strong, smart & skilled as ever.
  • 5 0
 @Lanebobane: the atherton's own bike park is great. www.dyfibikepark.co.uk
  • 9 4
 @Mtn-Goat-13: lol…RA casually showed up and won. Be real.
  • 5 1
 @nvranka: How much more real can I get? I just said that. She's as rad as ever. Be real... silly.
  • 8 0
 Remember Myriam Nicole was missing and she won the last 2 races at Lenzerheide by healthy margins, not to take away from Rachel as she has come back swinging and it's awesome, but not sure she even expected it, we don't have to worry about the others girls tho, its seems non of them had a perfect run on this occation but when was the last time the top 3 women were seperated by less than 1 second, could give us tight racing on the limit from all the girls all season long.
  • 3 1
 @Lanebobane: She said she's been riding at Dyfi Bike Park almost exclusively, which is clearly a dream training ground. It's also little-known that pregnancy is a performance enhancer. The body makes more red blood cells and undergoes other physiological changes that benefit the woman up to a year (or even a bit more) postpartum. This means that she was able to benefit from that and get in some high-quality training after giving birth. That said, she's also alluded to mental struggles after delivery. I think she must simply be a very strong person, physically and mentally, and that made the difference.
  • 11 0
 This is not her first race in five years. Last year, as in 2022, Rachel raced the Lenzerheide world cup and finished 6th, 15 seconds behind Myriam Nicole.
  • 11 0
 Rachel tried the same race last year - and finished a respectable 6th I believe. Since then, she's had a year. As much as she was managing expectations going in with talk about just trying things out to see where things stood and all that - her consistent performance through qualifying, semis, and then stepping it up another notch in the finals suggests this is not a matter of her waltzing back from a long time off into a weak field. More like a seasoned, fierce racer working really hard and showing up well prepared and winning a competitive race.
  • 5 0
 @Lanebobane: They (as a family business) run a bike park, develop their own bikes, and run their own WC team. Pair that with all the sports performance resources that come from their Red Bull partnership, and you're probably looking at a good bundle of resources. That's a great starting point, since without that, all the hard work that goes into this is harder to make pay off.
  • 8 2
 Mama bears are far more dangerous, especially experienced ones.
  • 6 0
 @g-42: My thoughts exactly- I think she was more prepared for this than she was letting on. "Only been riding at home" coming from an Atherton is almost as silly as if Finn Iles said that referencing Whistler
  • 7 0
 There has been an opinion you see voiced here and there that bike parks aren't good for "proper" downhill training. Rachel's win has to put paid to that nonsense. I was thinking though, that Lenzerheide, and some of the others have a good fraction of the course on actual bike park trails, more so than we probably think from watching the broadcast. So being really fast on those sections, eg knowing how to absolutely rail berms with holes in them, has to be a big help for your overall time. Granted, when people say "bike park" they often mean "A-Line" but really do we have to think this when there's miles of tech trails in these parks? Bernard Kerr had a bunch of footage following Rachel at Dyfi in the off-season and she was insanely fast, as he was commenting. What a wonderful story, and as an aside, RedBull sticking with her through everything just looks like sports marketing genius now.
  • 2 0
 Now the time gap between the top 5 women is quite tight. Rach' won with a small margin, nothing to compare to the 2010's.
  • 3 0
 @eckljkr: I'm not a woman, but I'm pretty certain most would not consider being post-partum to be a performance enhancer. Yes, their blood volume increases to accommodate for the growing fetus, but not their hemoglobin. The life of a red blood cell is about 3-4 months. She gave birth almost two years ago. They also can lose a large amount of blood during delivery. Give her credit for her hard work like you did in her last sentence. It is also not easy to be a parent and balance all of that hard work either.
  • 27 7
 Just watching the rerun of the Men's final on Eurosport and honestly I don't understand what people are bitching so much about. Sure there is room for improvement but overall I'm really enjoying the coverage.

I thought the commentary was largely good. Cedric was a bit jarring at times but he's obviously been brought in to play the Warner role (and has likely been briefed to get excited / shout / generally be a bit eccentric)

The on screen graphics could use some work. The drone footage was cool (not always the best it could be) and the random cut-aways need refining. All of this can and will be worked on though throughout the season. People comparing 10 years of Redbull coverage to one event is completely pointless.
  • 7 0
 People like a good whinge.

Rob warner is contracted to Red Bull, Red bull don't have the world cup anymore so why moan about it?
  • 6 0
 Yep totally agree. The XC coverage already improved from Nove Mesto to now (more splits, showing placements outside the top 10, etc), so I'm sure DH coverage will get polished up quickly. Not a bad first effort at all though.

Mainly I think people just forget all the bad stuff about RB (not that I'm complaining - I loved the RB era). But IMO both of these announcers on their first attempt are already better than Claudio ever was. My whole family (including my father in law who's never mountain biked or watched a race in his life) watched the whole thing and loved it.
  • 1 0
 @bkm303: Only gripe about the XC graphics was that the running order on the left side was lagging pretty hard. You could see the positions had changed by watching the humans on the bikes but the graphics weren't keeping up. What do I care. I'm not an XC guy but I will watch the women's races. Don;t really care about the men's. Women are just amazing.
  • 1 0
 @mluk2004: There's a huge gulf in the quality of commentating, the footage wasn't too bad.
People are paying for the privilege of not hearing Rob screaming two British riders down the hill and trying to justify it, but come on...
  • 17 0
 I can’t help but wonder if the idea of a Perfect Run is misleading.

Perhaps the fastest recorded time for split 1 requires exiting on a line that make it impossible to set up for the fastest possible split 2.
  • 11 0
 Yep, and it's an economy of effort. If you give more in one section, it may not be possible to give as much in another section.
  • 9 0
 @mammal: And then there are setup compromises. The kind of suspension setup that makes you steamroll through rocks and roots is not the same thing that makes you fast in the flow sections and vice versa.
  • 12 0
 It’s great to see the junior riders getting more coverage. I thought the camera angles were bad… but I’m sure they’ll get better as the season goes on.
Commentary needs work…. they could get someone like Martin Whiteley involved again and give us stats on riders like they did with Redbull.
The onscreen graphics aren’t as good as the Redbull coverage, like when they would do a head to head with the rider on track and the one currently in the hot seat.. it was visually easy to follow how close the race is.
  • 20 8
 ESO needs - to - bring - a - woman - into - the - box. You need a woman commentator like Tracy or Emilie who knows the tracks, the riders, the sport, every turn and wtf it takes to do this. ESO's going on & on about bringing DH to the world...with just more dudes (and I'm one) in the box. That's oldskool junk - get a woman in there, train Cedric so he's relevant, up Ric's volume slightly - but get an experience woman rider's eye on things. Tracy always added great value to Redbull events and she's prob not an option here but someone is - now go & get her commenting!
  • 2 2
 I’ve gotta disagree here. I think we just need the best possible people in these positions. To me, Tracy seems out of her depth on the RedBull broadcast. I’ll give her the time to improve, but she’s obviously the weak link. It’s not a man/woman thing, she’s just not very good (at the moment). Same with Cedric. He’s good/great in French, but he’s pretty ordinary in English.
  • 4 2
 @Clownshoe: Bollocks (in a fun way). Tracy's rad & know her tracks, riders, and lines far more than you or me, hands down. Emilie too. ESO's stated goal is bringin in more fans - coupla bros, much as we may like (or not) don't bring 'em in. Plus why exclude women when they are such a part of the sport unlike something like F1. Ced wasn't just ordinary - he was lost. Like a puppy w/ all that excitement and lack of control, zero insight on the tracks & riders and zero training and I mean that in the way that he's fun & trainable but he's years behind Tracy & Emilie who are fresh off the track (and still riding for Tracy in some cases). Ladies: bring 'em on.
  • 5 1
 Tracy commented like a robot, saying the same exact things over and over again
  • 5 2
 PLEASE BRING SOMEONE WITH AN EASY ENGLISH ACCENT. HAVING A IRISH/SCOTTISH AND A FRENCH IN THE BOOTH MAKES IT SO DAMN HARD TO FOLLOW FOR US NOT ENGLISH NATIVES
  • 1 0
 @maxnomas: you'll get used to it. They used to say the same about Sean Kelly on Eurosport for the road cycling, but so much anymore.
There are so many different accents across the UK and Ireland. Just count yourself lucky Ric isn't a Brummie or a Geordie if you think a light Ulster (Norn Iron) accent is tough to follow!
  • 5 2
 @JohSch:

Tracy Hannah Commentary kit.

She's so -
Fast
Strong
Powerful

Just look at her -
So fast
So strong
So powerful

And this course is
So steep
So rough
So brutal

  • 3 0
 @w0dge: Agreed - sometimes - but you're cherrypicking. She's then talkng about the tracks, the riders, her experience on them, what the track is like in whatever section and who's done what when where and why. she's got far more content than that - just go back & watch any of the races - plenty of content from her w/ substance.

This type of fluff commenetary you note however is just about all Cedric did though: not a peep about rider, history, track - nothing. So if that's "all" either of them do, lets have Tracy.
  • 1 0
 @Maxcommencemal: yeah you´re right, i probably will
  • 2 0
 @Mtn-Goat-13: Yes, also agreed. I was having a bit of fun and have nothing but admiration for Tracy.

Overall, I enjoyed the broadcast, no issues listening to Ric or Cedric. I think it'll improve as they find their feet with it, and maybe read the PB comments...!

I also have an XC Commentary kit from Rob & Bart..

- I'm going to say something obvious now Bart, and you'll back me up.
-Yes, yes, you're right with that. I'm going to say something now that'll surprise you slightly.
- Is that right Bart?
- Yes, yes.
- Great rider, this woman...
Smile
  • 1 0
 @w0dge: Well cool, I didn't totally read that right. Hilarious about the XC commentary. Rob is badly missed. I can watch DH w/o commentary at all and that's great, but Rob certainly brought it to an entirely new level where I looked forward to his commentary as much (maybe more?) than the racing itself.
  • 13 1
 I paid, I guess I want to support it.
I knew Cedric would be a wild card, I remember he was in the booth with Rob back in the Freecaster days for a race, he was horrible back then, likely drunk with Rob but Rob could manage under the influence.
* There was a lot of dead air.
* I assume they are watching the same feed as us? How could they miss the split times so often??
* No discussion of the splits, it was obvious when a rider had slow or fast sections, easy to bring that up to keep the excitement. "they are down by 1.2 seconds but the current leader was slow through the bottom of the course" I feel like they talked about it during the semi's with split 3 to 4 but then nothing.
* New season, know the riders and where they came from for team switches. Rob would walk the track and the pits to get info on the riders and the bikes, did these guys do that? Take notes to discuss be prepared, it is very difficult to talk about the same thing for hours but Rob made it flow.
* Camera angles... they were not good, they did get a lot of the course but quality over quantity? We want both though.

Cedric is a great guy, I have met hit a bunch of times. So much energy and great for the sport as a rider and I think he can contribute to this, just not sure being in the booth is it.
  • 5 0
 I did some quick stopwatch math for everyone interested in how the new broadcaster was able to keep up with the promise of showing complete race runs (% of rider somehow visible compared to race time):
- 87% race run coverage for Bruni
- 84% race run coverage for Greenland
- 88% race run coverage for Kolb (unfortunately nothing from the deciding crash section)

- 86% race run coverage for Vergier with Red Bull as the fastest qualifier in Lenzerheide 2022

So what are the takeaways regarding coverage from the new broadcaster (commentary excluded)?
- Time-wise similar track coverage as before so far, the big test comes with longer tracks
- Some camera angles were better in certain parts with discovery, others clearly worse
- The speed of the track felt slower with discovery compared to RedBull for me. Personal preference for sure, hated the too much zoomed-in shots on RedBull and liked the more panned-out perspectives on discovery. But now also see the purpose of getting closer to better transmit the feel to viewers.
- Graphics lack in several areas (rider overviews, direct time comparison bars)
- discovery did a good job and have a solid base to build on, but currently still behind compared to RedBull coverage
  • 3 0
 Interesting. Lots of people are saying we're seeing more of the runs, I didn't think it was too different to RB. It'll be interesting to see what happens next week on a longer track. I don't think they can do much without making the gaps between riders bigger, unlikely as there was already 5 hours of racing with the new format.
Incidentally, do your calculations include cutaways to see the team manager's face mid run?
  • 4 0
 @commental: I stopped my watch for all segments where the rider was completely out of the picture but didn't have any cutaways for ambient or team manager shots in the runs I timed. No scientific numbers - just amateur stopwatch and Excel calculation - 1-2% deviation surely possible.

We all know that showing 100% of the track is super hard to do and impossible with current start gaps. Doing so for the whole field would become too long and boring to watch for most. Showing as much as possible for the top riders would be great, but a regular 3+ hours of coverage will be hard to fit the schedule for many viewers.
  • 1 0
 @paulpimml: Nice work.
  • 6 0
 I would like more a tech article about gaps and lines... Like like that natural double at the beginning only Suárez did in such a fashion way or that other gap bruni did ..
  • 5 0
 That's more of a Cathro thing to do, isn't it?
  • 4 0
 @vinay: yes but he wasn´t really doing since holding the team... I mean why do we have to wait Cathro only to do it ? the poor man has enough... In other team sports it´s always what the media pays more attention to... if there was a special move skill from an athlete... here we have plenty and none seems much valued... just go to Raw videos and good luck...
  • 5 1
 I paid for a months trial and the footage overall was ok, with some room for improvements. The commentary on the other hand, Ric was ok he knew his facts and could easily listen to him but Cedric ruined the whole show, he was just shouting out and could hardly understand him.

Anyone who followed Warner was going to be up against it but I’m sorry they need to find someone else to pair up with Ric, I would have happily paid to watch the RedBull feed, the GCN+ app I think I won’t be renewing next month unless major changes and the bosses listens to the paying customers.
  • 1 4
 It seems a shame that the coverage of the riding still isn't as good as the freecaster days. I get that they need to be able to get the equipment up the mountain but it felt like a lot of the footage focused on where they could get sponsorship banners into the frame and not on where the most exciting riding might be.
  • 5 2
 Really enjoyed watching the Juniors. As someone said previously it's a good opportunity to follow the up and coming riders and, going by the Elite finals something worth doing. Shame not to be able to watch the Elite finals due to the paywall but at least I didn't have to listen to the bland and boring commentary team again. Kind of like the new format but shame Red Bull TV aren't still doing the coverage.
  • 7 0
 Red Bull never showed any inclination to cover non Elite races.......
  • 1 0
 Do you have Sky Q/glass? You get paramount + as part of that subscription. Thats how we watched.
  • 4 0
 I'll say you missed out bigtime even w/ the bungling & getting up to speed, Cedric being amateurish on the mic and other issues - its only gonna get better. The racing was still top notch in the finals and near-full runs for 40 riders (to me) was unbeatable. And yeah - the fact the Redbull blew the single best year to every show Jrs in 2022 when Jax & Jordan were at it is a massive loss.

Redbull was great but wasnt' perfect and the loss of Rob & insertion of Ric (who's good enough), Cedric (untrained puppy) and not having a woman in the box (a blow if you want to bring women into the sport) is big - but you simply cannot get the thrill of those 2 elite races via PB (or any) recaps or edits - you just get a few blips & the results. I've got tonnnnnnnnnns of gripes w/ the new coverage - enough to fill this page - but in the end, watching the racers go down to the line, upping speeds & the drama of each run is simply unbeatable after 40 weeks of nothing - so its worth it if you really love watching racing. The actual finals racing was waaaaay more off the hook than semis - it was as good as gets.
  • 2 1
 @VWsurfbum: No. Don't want yet another subscription. Plus, when I tried a free trial of Paramount plus it refused to work on our smart TV (Samsung). It's a known issue that they don't seem interested in fixing.
  • 2 0
 @Starch-Anton: Yeah. I am loving the new format (semi finals, non elite covergae etc.). Just don't like the boring presentation. If only they could join forces Smile
  • 2 0
 @Mtn-Goat-13: All things considered. I'm glad it's back (has it really been 40 weeks ?!). Loved the racing and let's hope this weekend is a sign of things to come.
  • 2 0
 @MarkyB916: It was almost exactly 40 weeks (9 mos ago, ended) and yeah - I can watch all the Jrs / semis / finals they can throw at me. I griped at first but I love racing and the racers brought it hard...I'm happy. Commentators will improve - esp if the get an actual woman racer on board for commentary.
  • 5 0
 Main thing I learned is that Specialized will have a few €20,000 S-works models next year to be able to pay their team performance bonuses!
  • 5 2
 Discovery have come in and the coverage has got worse camera wise but it's great to get to watch juniors and the practice session is more fair now.
The new format seems to have lumped a mass of pressure on riders and we saw lots of horrible injuries at the weekend, like we haven't seen since 'back in the day'.
Healing vibes to those with fractured necks, backs, elbows, arms.... Etc.
Biggest learning.... Riders are going to push harder and more could get seriously hurt/injured.
  • 3 0
 Great seeing the Juniors getting coverage, but even better seeing how many teams now have JUNIORs being supported directly!!!!! I didn't used to subscribe to UCI or Redbull on Youtube, but wow, my subscription is blitzed with coverage after the racing.
  • 2 0
 It's a massive thing now and getting bigger and bigger as the teams come into the Juvenille and Youth category to get the talent. For example there's riders like Till and Max Alran who are stupid quick Frenchies on Commencal, there's George Madley on the Maddison Saracen team, there's the GT Viris team, the Muc-off young guns as well as a fair few other development teams out there.
My boy races on one of these teams and the levels of support and assistance is incredible all round, it's amazing to see how much the olds are giving back to the sport Smile
Obviously when you then see Jackson and Jordan it shows you that supporting the youngsters is a very good way forward.
Keep an eye on the names above, they'll be dominating the Juniors next year i think.
  • 2 0
 @weeksy59: Congrats to you and your lad I wish him all the best in the future.
I will add Pivot and Nukeproof now having development teams as well.
Its crazy that all it took is TV coverage (maybe also an increase in racing subs as well) to get more development teams out there and operating!
  • 7 0
 So ! Who paid ?
I did.
  • 5 0
 I did at the last minute. Figured it was worth a try for a month. Definitely missed Warner, but it was great to see racing again.
  • 2 0
 Same. So great to see racing again and I watched the juniors and semis for free on YouTube. Not sure what all the hate is about but it's probably the same peanuts that were banging on about the redbull coverage and now they think it was the best ever. I don't think it's perfect but they're doing a reasonable job and will learn and do better. Lots of positives to take away from the weekend.
  • 3 2
 I paid for a worse product My brother in law who doesn’t ride bikes even noticed the decline in coverage quality, especially the announcing.
  • 4 0
 I did it last minute. Was great to see a British double but.... Not impressed with the quality of the feed, felt the cameras or the bit rate is very low quality. The director or whoever controls the end feed kept missing stuff. The drone was terrible. But then, I am into FPV drones and felt this was poorly executed - but that looked like a combo of the camera person's position, director, and drone pilot's flight path. Plus the drone camera quality was extremely poor. Again, not sure if the investors that put up the money to buy the rights have the money to put on a proper show. Hopefully, they are not just wanting to cash in on everyone's subs and line their pockets but will put on the show it deserves. Time will tell.
  • 1 0
 I did but canceled it already FYI: Discovery Plus doesn't carry UCI racing in the US
  • 1 0
 i did, as one month was atleast worth the first 3 races, lenzer, leogang & val di sole. Hopefully the commentary guys actually get into the pits an talk with riders during the week so they atleast know something lol.
  • 1 0
 @Darknut: Why are more people not talking about this!! Do they not want us to watch UCI MTB in the U.S I just went ahead and sunscribed to GCN. None as good as Red Bull and Warner but it will have to do.
  • 1 0
 I definitely miss Warner, but as a french it's a bit easier for me to understand Gracia. Maybe there is a french audio stream, I haven't checked but meh.
The video stream looks like a little better in quality, not a lot but like from gopro 11 to gopro 14.
It seems we see a lot more track than we used to, someone checked?
Drone view: let the riders alone and anyway drone view sucks. Bring back cable cam.
  • 4 1
 The semi finals are nothing more than a tool to get the viewer to pay to see the Finals ... no actual use to the racers. If anything it will be detrimental to the racers because they will be more tired for the race run
  • 2 0
 Was there not a delay in their feed perhaps? Also thought the delay in talking about split times was a bit odd. I’m sure they’ll iron it out. Personally as a viewer I didn’t even bother with the semi final. It’s just too much dh on a weekend to sit down and watch. Don’t be like British football where it’s on all the bloody time!
  • 2 0
 Im stoked for Rachel. Its a much bigger achievement that many think. It wasnt just a mountain to climb in terms of fitness but also psychologically. I bumped into her at dyfi less than a year ago and while it was a really nice chat, it was clear she was struggling with her confidence to get up to speed again. at that point she was doing one or two runs a day and she wasnt pro fast. To overcome that and get this result shows real grit, determination and application. Thats why she is one of the greatest I guess.
  • 2 0
 Announcing!!!??? During the Final men's DH, I wondered to myself if Rick would reiterate the same quips he used during the semi-finals (one example, like going on and on about how nice charlie hatton is), and sure enough, Rick trotted out the same stories and quips he'd already jotted down from the semi-finals. It was PREDICTABLE! I'm sure some of you had to have noticed it too....at least Cedric's excited remarks were truly spontaneous and in the moment, and that was appreciated. He ain't no Rob Warner, but Cedric brings a bit of DH credibility where it counts - and some humor too.
  • 2 0
 Funnily enough, when I watched the final highlights (knowing the results) I thought that Rachel actually looked a bit slower than some of the other women racing. But I guess that just shows how much more composed she and her bike were compared to the others.
  • 2 0
 She takes such good lines and never stalls in corners. Watch her helmet cams, if the track is running straight she rides the thing perfectly straight from A to B no matter what's in her way and in the corners she gets wide and rounds it off without losing any speed. It's a tried and tested method.
  • 1 0
 @bikes-arent-real: all about the racing lines.
  • 3 1
 I'm not buying another stinking app.

I have Discovery+ along with every other service known to man.

It was irritating as hell to watch this on YouTube because I couldn't find it on the app they said it'd be on. Only to not be able to watch finals then have the results blown for me while I was searching for where the hell to watch it.

Camera shots were not good. Commentating was mediocre. Glad juniors got some love.

But from what I saw it just wasn't that great and I have no desire to buy a service I don't want for anything but a few races a year. At least Peacock there's stuff my kids can watch on it.

They killed the fantasy leagues and now they're killing availability. It's like they want these sports to die.
  • 2 0
 Once upon a time DH racing used to be on mainstream sport channels, I was very young back then and the sport was not that exciting... This weekend I got to watch the Roland Garros, Le Mans 24hrs, DHI, XC and even road cycling, all in the same two channels. Commentary needs work, yes , they will get there eventually, as will the camera operators, the drone pilots, and the diretor. I no longer have to open an app on my phone to watch a race ( but I still can ) I just turn on the TV and there it is, for me a diehard fan of the sport, or for anyone who is zapping their tv remote. It`s a whole new world of exposure that in some perspective can do a lot for the sport at a level that most of us can relate, and that is grassroots.
There is now a bigger picture to look at, and I`m not talking about the size of the screen in your living room...
  • 4 0
 Jackson Goldstone didn't get 4th in finals - he was 6th - still bloody good. Think he got 7th in semis.
  • 4 0
 Thanks for the spot, you're right not sure what I was on about there.
  • 5 3
 @edspratt: you're sleeping on Jordan whilst praising Goldstone, like literally the rest of the entire mtb-community.
  • 1 0
 @pastaman23: It's all fuel for Jordan's story arc as the next Alien.
  • 2 1
 @pastaman23: He literally praised both of them saying they are both the real deal (which they clearly are) and continued with a detailed account of how Jordan won, and Jackson came 7th and 6th 2 weeks post-surgery. Both are incredible feats for their first elite DH race.
  • 7 3
 GCN/Discovery coverage was garbage. Redbull was free and the coverage was WAY better.
  • 3 1
 there's a reason why a $1 fizzy drink costs $3 when it's in a redbull can.........you were paying for the racing all along.
  • 7 0
 @jokermtb: I don’t drink Red Bull. So other people were paying for me to watch racing.
  • 1 0
 The semis (and finals) now play a role in who’s protected going forward. If I’m interpreting the amendments they made it’s only the first round that the top 10 (men) from last year is protected. Going forward it’s the top 3 from last year and who ever is top 10 this year. For example Jordan and Jackson weren’t protected but will be now as long as they stay in the top 10 this year. Minnaar was protected but won’t be now. So being consistent in the semis and finals to build points affects whether or not you are protected.
  • 2 0
 Nvm. Just re-read the rules and I don’t think that’s how it works at all.
  • 2 1
 I tried to do this - I signed up for a GCN account last week, but could not log into it to actually subscribe to GCN+. Multiple attempts to get it fixed with GCN support were unsuccessful. Sunday afternoon I accidentally saw the race results, and then gave up jumping through hoops with GCN.

I don't think I'm going to bother this year.
  • 1 0
 If I wasn't lazy, I'd love to plot a chart of qualy vs semi-finals vs finals on where riders finished, to visually see who improved or declined between their runs. Like you did with XC Big Grin
  • 4 0
 Nevermind, I found the analysis page.
  • 4 0
 "Trek Factory Racing Still Not Using Title Sponsor Tires"
  • 2 0
 They're at least on Trek frames, not sharpied Commencals
  • 1 1
 There were a few misses on the commentary (as others have mentioned, there were gaps in noticing green splits and little explanation/backstory on riders), but my biggest issues were with logistics. There's no Roku app for GCN+, which is super annoying, and the way the events were all categorized as separate events in the app led to a lot of redundancy. I skipped over the "here's the track preview" segment for the third or fourth time (between men's and women's and semis and finals). The flow between events felt poor.

I also did not even bother to watch the men's semis in the end. There were too many riders and like most of us, I don't have unlimited time for this hobby. I would much rather have seen a smaller men's semi's fields and a larger women's final. I don't think seeing the last-ranked men's rider was more important than having slots for 15 women so Phoebe Gale could compete in finals, for one.
  • 3 0
 UK back in force on the DH track what an epic first race for jordan williams
  • 1 0
 First ever elite race and first elite race back winner stories. Literary perfect story telling. Life is better than fiction some times. Really happy for Rachel actually I was routing for her.
  • 4 3
 Great video coverage, but where’s the commentary, it’s a major step back with out Warner even worse there’s none.
Maybe it’s just New Zealand or what?
  • 4 1
 there was commentary on all the shows we watched? Might have got lost in the post heading down to you?
  • 2 0
 @VWsurfbum: Apparently the app defaulted to "ambient audio" for a bunch of people, i.e. the commentary was probably turned off on your device.
  • 2 0
 Don't worry, you didn't miss much.
  • 2 0
 Thanks for letting me know it seems to be working now. @VWsurfbum:
  • 3 0
 I learned the broadcast is better on mute....
  • 2 0
 On the GCN+ app there is an option for ambient sound only. I actually liked the commentary, but when I had it mistakenly on ambient only sound it was pretty cool just hearing the bike and trail.
  • 4 0
 Jordan is the real deal.
  • 1 0
 I learned WC DH is still great, but it was more fun when we had a fantasy league.
  • 1 0
 After UCI screwed up the streaming for money, Juniors Finally Get Broadcast Coverage.
  • 2 1
 I think that we’ve all learned that the commentating SUCKS!!! We Miss You Rob!!!
  • 1 0
 Any updates on AP? What happened? When is he expected to go back on a bike?

Wish him a good recovery!
  • 2 1
 But it is early days so a low baseline hopefully means the only way is up.
  • 5 8
 Pretty damn lame across the board as far as the race coverage goes! Most camera shots were crap. I like Cedric but overall the announcing was sh*t. Not even a pimple on the ass of the Redbull Coverage. Except for the last couple of runs of each race it was boring as hell. D- at best
  • 2 5
 We need viewing figures vs last year - how many eyes were on this event? i predict a drastic decline which will impact sponsors and the sport over all. I didnt even bother to look at the streams but from comments across the internet it looks like quality was not worth paying for. I feel this will be bad for the sport overall and would expect 'journalists' to be covering these points with more critical detail.
  • 8 0
 You should watch it and make up your own mind
  • 1 2
 It`s on open signal on eurosport... How is that a decline ?
  • 1 0
 @Gruta: eurosport is a cable/sky channel in most countries. No one uses terrestrial TV anways.
  • 1 0
 @morewhitenoise: You're right. It's on Eurosport, period.
  • 1 0
 @Gruta: are you regarded? Eurosport is a paid for cable/satelite service. Current year, no one wants to pay £50 a month for a service they dont use (unless you like football, which means you're definitely regarded).
  • 1 0
 @morewhitenoise: Apart from horses, golf and snooker, I`ll watch about anything sports related, with football not being a preference.
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