What 5 Things Would Make Red Bull Rampage Even Better?
We asked insiders, athletes, and spectators what would make Red Bull Rampage even better. This is what they said:
1. More Money for the Athletes
 | From the athletes' perspective, obviously the prize money for first place is pretty good, but I think, really when you look at what this event is and the media behind it and the non-endemic stuff, a bigger prize purse all the way down [would be good]. If you look at one golf tournament, one of the majors - these athletes, in my opinion, aren't getting paid enough. I think it's gotten better, but I think it still has a little further to go. |
| Honestly, with the risk we are taking and everything, for sure, there is a lot of money involved and they could give more reward to the riders for what they do. That's the first obvious thing I want to say about the whole thing. |
| There was more money in the sport back when we raced then there is now. It's crazy. The amount of money that the guys earn for what they are doing, it doesn't compute to me. They put their lives on the line, literally. |
| I was number one pro [in BMX racing] in the nation in 1980 and Brian was number one pro in the nation as brothers in 82 and 83. They gave away cars at that point. We won three Trans Ams. I was number one cruiser - the 24" bike, three years in a row. I actually rode for Nike. I signed a contract with Phil Knight and rode Nike shoes for two years. |
2. A Different Judging System
| I've heard some good ideas for different kinds of judging, like not showing the scores for the first run until the end. It should all be relative anyway and it makes it easier on the judges, maybe it's not as exciting for the viewers, but then the second run is more exciting. For me, I want to see two runs and I want to see the excitement in the second run. It's just cool to see what these guys do. |
3. More Time for Practice
| I feel like whenever we get to event day, time is the enemy. Everyone is out here digging for essentially two weeks. By the time the event comes around, everyone is pretty exhausted and there's always a scramble to ride lines and a lot of people the morning of are riding their lines for the first time. I think it's easy to gravitate towards more time, but I also think that if there were more time people would be even more ambitious with the builds - not that the builds aren't ambitious enough. It's kind of a Catch 22, the more time you add, the more time people are going to spend on it. The problem would still be the same. I think people are still going to be tweaking things but maybe half a day is dedicated to riding. I feel like they've had that in the past where certain days were no shovels. I think those windows of time are important because when you are out here, and you see something like this, no matter what, no matter whose line, no matter how awesome your dig team is, there's always more you can do and it's hard to be comfortable with that and let it go and just focus on practicing and working on your line. |
| I think in a case like this where it's the first year at a venue, maybe a little more time, but again, yesterday, huge wind stopped a lot of the practicing, and there's nothing you can do about that. You can't plan for that. Maybe next year, ten days at the venue is more than enough, but starting off with such a raw canvas, maybe it wasn't quite enough. Some people maybe bit off a little more than they could chew as far as line choices this year, but they all got the same amount of time, and the same number of diggers, and same opportunity, they knew they had to make it work and it was what it was. |
4. Rawer Terrain
| I would love to see things be rawer like Rampage of old. I think these guys put in a lot of work and they are really skilled and just come up with some amazing lines and creations and lips and landings, but I think it's turning into too much of a bike park. I would love to see it be more of a mountain. |
| This year there wasn't as much raw riding as people said there was going to be. There's quite a lot of manicured jumps and drops - and I like that because they just go huge, but there are only a few guys doing crazy, unique stuff. But I think it's kind of up to the riders. |
5. More Recognition for the Diggers
| After being on site for a week and watching the construction of all the lines I really think there should be a lot more attention paid to the builders by the event. The vast majority of us ride trails primarily built by volunteer builders in our hometowns and that’s where these guys have honed their skills. I’m excited to go home and ride my bike but Rampage is so gnarly and such a massive media event that it almost feels like it could get disconnected from the greater mountain bike community. I think more coverage of the diggers, their stories and skill sets would be a way for Rampage to encourage the next generation of local trail builders and give back to mountain bikers everywhere. |
Author Info:
Must Read This Week
Sign Up for the Pinkbike Newsletter - All the Biggest, Most Interesting Stories in your Inbox
PB Newsletter Signup
Let all riders take their first run without receiving scores. Then take an intermission and let the judges rank them all together and release the scores once all the first runs are completed. The judges could compare all the runs on video, and get them stacked correctly. Give the riders 30 minutes after the scores are released to plan their second run. And then run the rest of the comp giving scores as they go. This would eliminate the need to "leave room" for higher scores. It doesnt seem so hard. Yes it would leave a larger time gap for shenanigans but it would be much more fair, and I doubt riders would disagree.
As for the pay scale, that's needed everywhere especially on this event. Even if you end up last, you should still get paid a good amount. NBC can easily afford it.
Either way, this event is always the best so just a couple of minor tweaks to perfect it even further.
2 birds, 1 stone.
My vote would be to go rider judged with multiple awards and an overall winner. Best team, Gnarliest line, biggest hit, best trick, fastest, best style, overall best run.
Would that ruin Redbull’s bottom line?
Part of the problem is the tug of war between the guys who tend toward lighter lines with bigger tricks and the guys who do bigger lines with lighter tricks. It’s really hard to judge them the same. You could say that tricks have no value, but how could you remove that progression from the equation?
Also, it is funny all the talk about getting rid of the wood and the “slopestyle” but they manicured the heck out of that mountain. Coming from a guy who only rides the jump trails when I go to whistler, even I thought it was surprisingly buff given all the talk of “returning to the roots.” Like a Fest-style build on really steep terrain.
Maybe you’re more into figure skating?
I think a first step on how to implement and judge tricks would be to give them a separate scoring system. What i mean by that is, that a trick that is thrown in while riding a very exposed and gnarly line or drop in the top section needs to give a lot more points than a trick thrown on one of the doubles down below.
That´ll lead to a clear and fair understanding of the value of a rowdy line.
It got blatantly obvious to me once i realized Reeder was passing even on some of the more mid sized drops during his second run but then threw a big trick on the double below just for fun. To those slopestyle guys a backflip is nothing, but going down a medium sized drop seems to still be something they´d rather avoid if possible. So how can the judges award more points to those obstacles and tricks than a rowdy line choice?
There needs to be a clear scoring system that rewards triple the points (or whatever) for a one footer on a ridge line than a backflip on a double down below.
I respect what the slope guys are doing and their skill level, but big mountain riding needs to remain pure in the sense that line choice needs to be the one deciding factor and tricks can only be something to seperate the men from the boys. As i see it, if your line is a smooth slope line, your tricks aren´t worth much, even if they are big, as long as it´s in the context of a big mountain contest.
Funny enough big mountain skiing does not seem to have those problems. While those guys may throw in a trick on some of the mellower feature in the lower section of the face, what get´s you the win is always a technical line mixed with some tricks. No way those judges would reward a big slope trick down below more points than a simple 360 over some gnarly cliff.
Maybe Red Bull should just take a site out of the Freeride World Tour´s rulebook for inspiration?
Points for a flip on something the average PB reader would possibly consider hitting? Nah.
Points for riding some rough as f*ck line that hasn't been groomed? Yeah.
And lets be real here, PB isn't going to say it and I get that, but dam: The announcers! They suck. Cam isn't to bad, but why not bring in some stand up comics to mix it up with a MTB'er who can explain the riding. I can't stand the "pinnacle of progression", BS vanilla pablum they spew.
f*cking plagiarist!
I don´t think it would really.
They will still be easy to implement in a run and still reward points. There´s really no reason to cut them out on the lower part, but it would encourage the guys to throw them in in the upper parts. A casual triple tailwhip for good measure and 1-2 points on a double on the valley floor will still be worth it as it´s not a huge risk for these guys.
I mean, nobody is hindering Semenuk from building a gigantic kicker on a ridgeline with a narrow landing and throwing a cashroll over it and then head straight for a super steep chute. We´ve also already seen a lot of drop variations up to flat backflips. It´s just that right now those guys do opt for the easier jumps as they are equally rewarding in terms of points.
Semenuk and Lunn already did what i am trying to say.
And i´m sure the general public is much more thrilled by a gigantic backflip drop than a triple cashroll in the valley.
My problem lies in the fact that Strait´s Suicides aren´t really worth any points because they are not techy slopestyle tricks. They just need to at least bring them up to equal value due to the exposure and technicality of the terrain, but judging does not reflect that.
They seem to have line choice and tricks as two completely seperated factors and that is not right.
The technicality of the line, which is something the judges can perfectly asses before the event, needs to be some sort of multiplicator for the score that is awarded to a trick. That way COMBINING the two is what really rewards a rider. Doing only a tech line or tech tricks over perfect doubles, neither can be a winning run. Blending it all together is what it should be all about.
Rampage could be like Moguls skiing. You announce your line and get a "start score". If you add tricks or riding it so rad you improve your score and if you do any mistake the score is lower...
Then judge wait the end of the first run to announce the score to beat at the second one !
Riders can try to beat it or bet to keep their place.
It could help judges to separate lines and riding skills and be entertaining & educative like " This guy had to send big tricks to beat the radest line"
And why not the "start score" could reward & highlight the best building crew....
Peace
Would have been cool if Zink stayed there with McCaul to actually talk lines /tricks /riders, and get rid of the other two.
Brendog had one of the most creative lines and high amplitude style. This was one of the most entertaining runs of the whole day. Scored the lowest. Reed boggs unique feature as well... Flip backwards on an open loop? Right before dropping a 50 foot cliff. Insane.
Maybe red bull need to run a "build your line" comp in a normal bike park and then weight the scoring in rampage towards big mountain riding?
Those guys wanna go big regardless, but have them push it that extra 1% for a top spot sometimes feels unethical.
FEST is a great example on how the sport progresses regardless of competition, and i´m of the firm opinion that we would end up with a better product in the end due to the fact that riders would not compete for lines but rather work together in order to create something truly special. Imagine those guys bundling their ideas and imaginations for that mountain and the end result then is interpreted by each rider in his own way instead of guys claiming entire zones for themselves.
Just magine what some guys would have been able to do on Brendogs Rock.
We have racing for the fight for the top spot. Let´s make freeriding about progression and free interpretation of the mountain.
As it stands, FEST and Audi Nines work great as a format.
Having those guys go at it as a team in order to progress the sport, in a hostile environment, and then go at it in a competition style format but without actual judging and podium i´m sure would be an even more unreal spectacle than it is now.
Free Solo did an excellent job of exploring the ethics of turning something with fatal exposure into a spectacle, as well as showing the emotional toll it has on the people surrounding the athlete.
Seeing Szymon Godziek's wife or girlfriend after that crash, hearing Cam try to announce through watching his brother nearly fall off a cliff... The consequences are huge, and I'm not sure its okay to make something like that a tv spectacle.
I love seeing the progression, but I really don't want to see an athlete I admire die on live broadcast.
Give the riders what u spend on the helicopters. That’s it thanks.
I also think the working for each score should be shown from each judge, to explain why a score has been reached.
Am I the only one fearing every year to see one of those guys die at the bottom?
I've met some of them, they're all incredible peoples. It would be so sad to lose a Brendog or an Andreu. =(
youtu.be/ZfxGY-BsUnY?t=1942
I don't have first-hand knowledge, but presume that is due to the limited load-carrying capacity of drones and battery limitations on both power for flight and running the processing / high-bandwidth communications equipment necessary.
I've read a couple of articles recently about Hydrogen fuel cells that are compact and light enough to power drones for much longer periods than batteries. One can only hope that this quickly becomes viable for live HD broadcast.
There's enough sun in the Utah desert for Red Bull to generate the necessary Hydrogen on site in the weeks leading up to the event and run the whole Rampage show without fossil fuel (and get better footage)!
Now that would be innovative - Red Bull, give Ballard and Intelligent Energy a call!
blog.ballard.com/fuel-cell-drones
www.intelligent-energy.com/our-products/uavs
I'd like to see some attempts though.
I also found the exposure to be all over the place too - the start line cam way over exposed, the heli cam low res (maybe digital stabilisation caused this) , then finally some decent footage at the bottom from some fixed camera positions.
digiday.com/media/eye-sky-fox-sports-bringing-drones-sporting-events
Give them a $1000 to split and full on kegger after the event. (oh, and fireworks to play with too)
Cheers!
Not joking. If riders think they should be making what golfers make, they should have taken up golf.
Most guys would ride rampage for free I bet. If they stencilling to do it for nothing, no one is going to pay them the big bucks.
In the last decade or two, RB has BORROWED much of it's current cred (marketing) from extreme sport's athletes. Arguing that they're doing any of these extreme athletes a favor since they'd do it for free (or just for personal achievement) is laughable.
These athletes don't owe jack to anyone and should be considered equal to the companies who must acknowledge it's AT LEAST a 50/50 proposition. Riders and their families risk life/limb/mind while these companies "risk" shareholder's money to be recouped by brand recognition/sales, a write-off, or bankruptcy settlement at worst.
Does Red Bull even have any marketing without the daring of their athletes...should these master athletes approach their negotiations the same way that a MBA grad shifts their "bottom line" according to who is asking?
PAY them not only according to the risk of the task but also the relative few in numbers that could/would do it as balls out as they do.
If you can pack a stadium full of paying customers week in, week out, then obviously you are worth more than if you ride once a year in the middle of nowhere.
BTW RB is spending billions on extreme sports most of which have no "packed stadiums" of payers week in/out...I guess RB execs are unaware of your law?
Or is it that they are well aware of what these athletes do and what it's worth to their brand...they're just not willing to share it equitably. Other than their stupid cartoons...it is their marketing and branding.
They are worth what they make, and they make enough to satisfy them, evidenced by the fact that they do the event for the money they make for said event. Rampage has happened like, ten times. Obviously they are satisfied with the pay since they keep coming back.
That is not to say I think they are well paid. I wouldn't do that work for that money. It's not worth the risk for me, but for them evidently it is.
Are you one of the competitors? If so, I would suggest forming a union and making some demands about remuneration for the event with the possible threat of a boycott if said demands are not met. Until that happens, the money will not go up. You don't pay more than market value for anything unless you're an idiot, and I'm pretty sure the management at RB are not idiots.
But the reality is that these athletes are doing what they want to do, and Redbull goes out and provide's them the funds and the platform to do it. Whether it be events like Rampage, or funding for movies, or training for a world record at something, these athletes are doing what they want to do, and Redbull is making it happen for them. They aren't telling riders what to do at Rampage or telling Travis Rice what to do in his movies. They support the vision of these top athletes and say what do you need to make it happen. You want to snowboard where? OK heres a plane, helicopter, sherpa, etc to get you there. You want to surf where? OK here's a boat, jet skis, water safety crew, etc. Private halfpipe in the colorado backcountry? No problem. Space capsule, space suit, ground control team so you can skydive from space? Sure thing. Dan Atherton has a vision for the a next level completely gnarly DH race? Have at it.
Since getting a Redbull sponsorship is basically considered the gold standard of action sports sponsorship, maybe we should ask the Redbull athletes how they feel about the company? If they feel like they are getting a bad deal?
A slight digression too- this insidious behaviour whereby the mob complain to the highest power in order to get their way is insufferable (Not PB, but many commenters). If you want something, go out and earn it! Work hard for it and be sure you get it the correct way. That way, and by expecting the same of anyone else then people will be less likely to f*ck one another over if they had an iota of insight into what it must have cost to achieve it in the first place.
for example:
style - 9/10 points
line - 6/8 points
tricks - 7/10 points
. etca
2 - better filming
+ more drones in the riding areas / crucial points
+ better angles
+ fillming from so far perespective from heli is not good
3 - realy good amount of money as prizes for first 3 places (for example 50k, 20k, 10k $)
There should be a King of the mountain format not too unlike Crankworks. 3 runs, cumulative score, judged by separate criteria.
1st run is raw natural line. Speed and flow over ridges, through shoots etc. Like the old days.
2nd run Built up lines, ie the slopestyle course we're all used to by now... amplitude, style, difficulty
3rd and final run that is open to the rider interpretation after seeing everyone ride or if they fell short in either other category.
Give the riders and diggers 5 more days to prepare, pay them more money cause...Redbull is fleecing these athletes for the spectacle and ultimately their marketshare. Have a great event where riders actually get their dues.
If you must score, have the people vote, but its only for those who feel the need to measure something.
2. Have some people's choice voting. The technology exists, it will increase engagement and it will highlight shortcomings in the formal judging. Let the fans chirp in on best ride, trick, line, save, etc.
3. Add a best rookie prize. Statistically, the judging has always put them at a disadvantage for a podium or win so recognize them.
With regards to people choice, are you suggesting that fan voting be part of the actual scoring? Because that would be a f*cking shitshow. Fans at home have real no perspective on the neuances of each riders lines. They have no idea how difficult a line, jump, or drop really is without waking each line like the real judges do. Also fans are not objective, they have favorites. You’d turn the event into a massive overhyped popularity contest with riders campaigning for votes ever turn of the way.
I sure saw a lot of manicured lips and landings, making it more like a slopestyle contest.
That's why they need to start developing events to try and increase the ridership. There are plenty of amazing female riders in Free Skiing/Big Mountain events, there's got to be a way to grow that level of competition with mountain biking. It won't be an overnight transition into getting a dozen female riders willing and capable of sending it but a development plan would be amazing. I'm a shit mountian biker so I just want to have lots good riders to inspire my kids into being better riders. Red Bull has the funds to help get that development going and stands to use said programs and riders to make more money so it's a win win for everyone (if they can start paying riders better and giving them good medical and disability coverage).
At this event Ethan Nell should have got scored a little higher... like first or at least second.
Some side angle video shots would've been nice. Get rid of the heli and have some actual decent drone pilots to follow the riders.
Claudio & Rob would also be damn good.
I don't have 4 hours to watch it all, but I want to see them all. A highlights program that is an hour long would be great.
Semenuk crashed twice....he'll be there next year.....for the new guys who risked everything it will be harder to get chosen again.
Yes they have to earn more but do not have to be mirrored to the f1 or golf world. The reason they are doing this is because they love nature/thrills/building stuff/friendship/life.....they all should get the same rewards and party after that....repeat and give kids a reason to live
2. Only one digger per rider, more focus on gnar and less "flow" trash
3. NOT JUDGING IT LIKE A SLOPE EVENT
You can’t expect too raw these days -as raw is not as safe,these riders are risking their lives and at the end of the day no one wants to die riding a bike for kicks.
Surely there must be drones available that can put out a reasonable picture?
2) British English commentary option with Rob Warner - 3 whining american park bros playing cliche bingo added no technical detail or background
3)If the venue gets repeated next year, let all the existing features be there as a free for all - nobody owning a line from the previous year which greatly disadvantages the rookies.
So yeah, these athletes should be paid fairly. Though I'd say a good alternative would be that competitors get access to the same medical facilities should anything go wrong during a RB event. Not sure if this would work for them as hopefully in most cases this shouldn't be needed and nor Monster, nor Red Bull could make anything marketable out of RB caring for Brendan should he get injured.
Just a thought. More money for the athletes is definitely a good one too.
These trails are ridden and built by so so many people, including Steve Peat, Craig Evans, Josh Lewis and the 50to01 crew. If you've seen Wheel Love or Slice of British Pie you've seen these trails!
Please sign the petition to open a dialogue for the protection of this unique trail network.
www.change.org/p/forestry-commission-england-save-wharncliffe-mountain-bike-trails-ee354cb6-9acd-4a22-b986-d58066114526?recruiter=9902559&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=share_petition&utm_term=06c08fa5bef144a890b49ce0175cbb6d&utm_content=fht-13763121-en-gb%3Av6
1) Get Tippie in the booth with McCaul and get rid of the other two.
2) The judging criteria should be public knowledge and each judges scorecard should be posted. No way Brendog should’ve gotten that score after hitting one of the gnarliest lines.
3) Good god, please give these riders 10-12 build days. Follow that with a mandatory day off. Followed by 4-5 days of practice so they can get the runs dialed. Followed by another mandatory day off before finals. That way the lines are built and dialed the riders runs are dialed and the athletes aren’t completely exhausted before the event. Far less crashes and way more epic sending.
- before the finals lines are judged seperatly for creativity and gnar. shared parts get deduction.
PS: and btw: the podium is just... i don`t know.... I`ll stay polite...
they can do their job better?
Eh I don't think I mentioned anything about anyone being forced onto any dig team. Who wouldn't want a water jockey or a sandbag filler, allowing for their 2 men being able to just dig the line?
There are plenty of us out there building trails who would love to do just that.
Why not open it up to a contest? I wanna see video of builds from around the world submitted and the builders selected by Rampage riders, after all there are plenty of Red Bull Athletes to do it.
Yeah actually that's exactly what you suggested- forcing an unknown builder onto a rider's team. There's a lot more work that each builder needs to do than just filling sandbags and watering lips. No need to dig your hole any deeper, its just not a good idea.