Staff Ride: Dario's Downieville Santa Cruz Tallboy

Aug 10, 2023 at 15:15
by Dario DiGiulio  
photo

STAFF RIDES

Dario DiGiulio's Santa Cruz Tallboy


It's been a few weeks since the Downieville Classic swept through the Lost Sierra, but I'd bet the dust is still settling out there. It was a wicked hot year, with plenty of fresh snowmelt to keep the river crossings high and exciting. This was my first year racing the Classic, and though I'd ridden in Downieville a couple times prior, I didn't really know what made for a dialed bike setup for the place. So based on what I'd seen of past winners bikes, friends' setups, and general terrain in the area, I took an educated guess and ended up with the configuration you see here.
Tallboy Details

• Intended use: long XC, but make it fun.
• Travel: 120mm rear / 140mm fork
• Wheel size: 29"
• Frame construction: carbon fiber
• 65.5° head angle, 493mm reach, 440 chainstays
• Weight: 30.8 lb / 13.97 kg (size XL w/ pedals)
• santacruzbicycles.com


photo

Let's start with tires, as those are one of the most critical elements to the Downieville race. You need a fairly light setup with low rolling resistance for the long initial climb in the XC, and for the no-brakes sections of the DH, but with enough cornering traction and cut resistance to keep you and the bike upright and unscathed.

After trying out a few different options, I ended up going with the stock combo: 2.4 Dissector front, 2.4 Rekon rear, MaxxTerra rubber, EXO casing. Faster options exist, but if I weren't racing I'd be running full-bore downhill tires for a day in Downieville, so I figured it was better to err on that side of things. EXO scares me, so I ran a Rimpact insert in the rear, which helped loads with tire squirm and any potential for rim damage on the many square rocks encountered at speed.

photo
Made sure to wear it down a good bit before the race - free speed.
photo
Not my favorite front tire, but it does hook up well when you commit to the lean.

Miraculously, I had zero issues with flats over the two days of racing, despite some very sloppy lines and plenty of sharp rocks. That insert certainly helped me get away with 25psi in the rear tire, but I think the 22psi in the front was mostly just luck.

photo
Minor beusage.

Those tires were mounted up to a wheelset I've really come to love - the original Eudae wheels made by a brand called Logos. I had them for review a while back, purchased them after the test period was finished, and have continued to use and abuse them without issue for a little over a year since. They never seem to need tension or true work, and the ride quality is zippy and pleasant. Add to that the relatively quiet original-DT-style hub, and you have a pretty solid wheel.

photo
Smooth and reliable hubs.
photo
Simple and durable rims.

I was waiting on a set of test brakes when the time came to build up the bike, but sadly they didn't show up quite in time. A pair of SRAM Codes scalped from my personal bike did the trick, and provided the unfussy performance I expected them to. The stock 4-piston Levels on the bike really didn't provide the power I wanted, but more on that at a later date. The upside to popping the updated Codes on here was the second hand position you get with the bar-parallel levers; great for a narrower grip and upright body position.

photo
The silver colorway made the choice easier.
photo
Matchmaker for sleekness.

Drivetrain was also SRAMmed up, as I ran the XO Transmission that comes on the high-end spec Tallboys. I swapped the 175mm cranks for 170s, changed the button arrangement into the correct orientation (top button moves the chain up the cassette, bottom button moves it down), and traded out the 32t ring for a 34t WolfTooth Drop Stop ring. Their updated tooth pattern works wonderfully with T-Type chains, and I had zero issues with retention or performance.

photo
Pro tip: spray paint your AXS battery chrome.
photo
Cranks polished by foot, DUBcap polished by hand.

Touchpoints were mostly cobbled together from other bikes in my garage, with a 40mm Industry Nine stem pulled off a test bike, some 35mm rise OneUp bars (cut to 770mm), and a WTB Pickup Devo saddle added for comedic value and comfort. I ran the Sensus Lite grips, as they're one of my all-time favorites, especially in the off chance I'm using gloves - which proved to be the way given how sweaty things were over the weekend.

photo
Comfortable, light, and the hole looks funny.
photo
Slammed, because I cut the steer tube short for a different bike.
photo
Grips turned because the other side is worn out.
photo
Cockpit-adjacent, here's what I carried in my Glovebox. Dynaplug, WolfTooth tool, CO2, AXS battery and zipties hiding inside.

On the suspension front, I ran the stock Fox Float Factory shock, which has a tune that really nicely compliments the character of the bike. Settings weren't too far off from Santa Cruz's recommended, with 200psi to hit sag and a bit less rebound damping.

The fork was a little less straightforward, as I wanted to make the Charger 3 Pike feel a little different than it comes stock. While the new model does a great job of keeping you high in the travel, avoiding too much dive even on steep trails, it loses some of the buttery suppleness that the older-model Pikes delivered well. In order to get back to that, I upped the travel to 140mm from the stock 130, and added a Vorsprung Luftkappe to the air spring. Essentially the Luftkappe softens the initial bit of the stroke by changing the positive/negative spring balance, letting it suck into travel far more readily than the stock version. This put the ride height back around 130mm, and gave a much softer top-end, which was great for the skittery corners and overall grip.

photo
The little shock that could.
photo
140mm Luftkappe'd Pike.
photo
Fork special feature: the Myles Plug.
photo
My buddy makes these in his spare time. Not for sale, yet.

Finally, the frame itself. Santa Cruz did a great job balancing grip, support, and efficiency in a nicely-packaged frame, making for a versatile and capable feeling bike. No, it's not an XC whip, but it's definitely the speediest bike I have in the garage right now, and it certainly wasn't a slouch at an all-mountain XC event like Downieville. Creature comforts like the Glovebox, easily-serviced bearings, and simple cable routing made it a great option for long-term testing as well. I think you could build up a similarly capable bike that weighed less if you went with a different frame, but the Tallboy feels robust and stiff enough to handle burlier components and trails, which I like for the terrain where I live.

photo
Official weight and whiteout sticker.
photo
Cute mudflap.

The stock white color had immediate appeal, but I wasn't crazy about the teal graphics that came alongside that base coat. To enhance the *deep custom* nature of the build, I had my friends at Fanatik Bike cut some chrome and white decals for the frame and fork. Slapping those stickers on the bike changed the look entirely, and I'm a big fan of the result. They can cut decals for all sorts of frames and components out there, and now that I've gone through the process it has me thinking about how I can spruce up other bikes I'll be keeping around for a while.

photo
Speed Chrome.

That's all, for now. I'll be messing with this bike a ton this summer, swapping parts and playing with the setup to suit various needs and wants. Luckily I have a setup I can refer back to though, because I really enjoyed the way this rode.

photo
Downieville tested.

photo
Dog approved.

To read the post-race writeup, check out event photos, and see how the race results stacked up, head over to the Downieville Recap.

More high-res photos here.


Author Info:
dariodigiulio avatar

Member since Dec 25, 2016
180 articles
Must Read This Week
Downhill Bikes of Sea Otter - Part 1
50740 views
Brian's Randoms from Sea Otter 2024
48853 views
Randoms Round 3: Dario's Treasures
46886 views
Pinkbike's DH Fantasy League: Get Your Team On The Line - Fort William is in 10 DAYS!
41880 views
Downhill Bikes of Sea Otter - Part 2
40374 views
[UPDATED] Final Elite XC Results & Overall Standings from the Araxá XC World Cup 2024
38949 views
Even More Randoms - Sea Otter 2024
37161 views
First Ride: Canyon Neuron:ONfly - a Lighter 140mm eMTB
36226 views
Sign Up for the Pinkbike Newsletter - All the Biggest, Most Interesting Stories in your Inbox
PB Newsletter Signup

191 Comments
  • 132 7
 "changed the button arrangement into the correct orientation (top button moves the chain up the cassette, bottom button moves it down)" -> This Is The Way
  • 15 1
 Yesss I was worried it was only me
  • 36 51
flag nickfranko (Aug 14, 2023 at 9:24) (Below Threshold)
 So, up to downshift and down to upshift?
That’s like wanting your shift lever to upshift by pulling it toward you and downshift by pushing away.

Y’all are weird.
  • 21 1
 First thing I did with the AXS app. Not sure who at SRAM is all backwards.
  • 14 5
 @nickfranko: I'm always surprised how many people seem to not understand gear ratios.
  • 4 0
 @nickfranko: youtu.be/CjUxJZYg7Ww
  • 7 5
 @nickfranko: but isn't that how it is in racing sequential gear boxes (rally, drag, etc.)? This always made more sense to me and in most cars with a sequential option it's reversed and I hate it. In motorcycles you push your foot forward/down to up-shift, and up/back to down-shift. I think that's been burned into me and I expect the same from my cars.
  • 11 5
 @nickfranko: that's how most race cars work. Push to downshift (when braking, so your hand motion matches the decel), pull to upshift (when accelerating, again matching the forces felt).

But that has nothing to do with bikes, though. However, as you said, matching the buttons to mech movement is silly. makes more sense to have up to upshift as speed goes up, and vice versa. Or even better is the rocker remote, which like Shimano shifter lets you upshift with your index/braking finger, since you probably don't need to brake while also needing to upshift.
  • 5 1
 @jeremy3220: so, up button for higher ratios, right?

Also, the ratios aren't the important thing. Up button means speed goes up. That's what matters.
  • 57 2
 The only thing worse than having to configure your drivetrain with an app and remember to charge its batteries is having the comments section tell you you're doing it wrong
  • 3 0
 @nickfranko: correct me if im wrong, but isnt that the way it is in automobiles? or at least it has been in every non-manual car ive ever driven. push away to downshift, back to shift up. Not to mention in a proper vehicle, 1 is away from the driver, upshift to 2 by pulling back, same for 3 to 4, and 5 to 6.
  • 1 2
 @VtVolk: I think you'll find indexing is worse
  • 1 1
 It is the way! the very first few groups came out of the box that way back then. not sure why that changed. And now with the newer rocker pod, it feels even more like the mechanical button if you run it that way
  • 124 5
 You know what's cool? With the fancy AXS shifting you can pick either shifter configuration, and there's no need to argue about it since both options are possible. Even though Dario's got it right.
  • 4 0
 Is down left or right?
  • 2 5
 @mikekazimer: what would the comments section be without arguments? It might be something akin to MTBing... "wow! woohoo! Oh boi, that was [(insert action adjective) scary, fun, slippery, gnarly]! Look at us, we're out here having the time of our lives!"

No. Just No Kaz! This is our place to tell everyone how it is and always ought to be. That's what happens when you put a very a specific thinking selection of the world's population in one forum and make us think too much about the stuff we love and 'know' everything about.

P.S. Are you sold on mullet, a full adopter? or is that Trek just an experiment?
  • 1 1
 The confusion about what upshifts and downshifts are on bicycles will never cease to amuse me.
  • 8 0
 @boozed: left shift, right shift, 1 shift, 2 shift
  • 1 0
 @Lanebobane: Here we use terms sift to easier gear and harder gear that I find easy to understand. But also to bigger and to smaller gear and that is confusing. Bigger in size or bigger is that you can drive (pedal) faster.
  • 5 0
 Toggle shifter paddle up to go up hills & toggle it down to go down. Simple!
  • 4 2
 @andeh23: the correct way is lower button shifts down, upper button shifts up. That's how it's configured on a mechanical trigger shifter from SRAM and Shimano. If you're used to shifting a non-AXS bike, it makes the most sense to have it set up like this.
  • 3 0
 @FaahkEet: "Invert Y axis: ON/off"
  • 1 0
 same for the 140mm Pike with the Lufkap mod...missing my old Pike.
  • 1 0
 @FaahkEet: red shift, blue shift
  • 3 0
 @mikekazimer: You forgot the golden rule....pick a button setup and be a d!ck about it.
  • 1 0
 @owl-X: Don't know anything about sequential gearboxes, but they're cool. so do they work like a recluse clutch... No need for left foot once you're rolling?
  • 1 0
 yet he still runs his brakes backwards.....how curious
  • 1 0
 @jokermtb: How do you figure?
  • 2 0
 @gossman: sequential just means the shift lever/buttons only have 2 motions and the box shifts always in sequential order, up and down. No skipping gears like is possible with an H-pattern. Flat-foot/no-lift/clutchless shifting is an option, but not necessarily always there. For example, motorcycles have sequential gearboxes, but most still use clutches. Conversely, I can easily power-shift, for example, my father-in-law's Mini (throttle response is nice on that little engine) without the clutch even though it's H-pattern and not sequential. Fancier cars with a normally-clutched gearbox might allow no-lift shifts by making a throttle/ignition cut as the upshift handle is pulled and a rev match when a downshift is requested. Plus add in dog-boxes/crash-boxes that can be H or sequential and allow (require, sometimes) no-lift shifts, and you can see it's not so simple as "does sequential mean no need for clutch". (I would say "no left foot" is the wrong question, because left foot braking is definitely going to be a thing once you're thinking about no-lift shifting for reasons other than fun/showing-off, ie: racing)
  • 2 0
 @justinfoil: information is wonderful. Thank you good sir.
  • 1 0
 @justinfoil: The ratios tell you the direction. Shifting to a higher gear [ratio] is an upshift. Shifting to a lower gear ratio is a downshift.
  • 1 0
 You're all wrong. Gonna make my left pod shift down and right pod shift up >:3
  • 1 0
 @Torbo24: what about 2 to 3 or 4 to 5?
  • 1 0
 If you have to explain what the correct orientation is then it isn't correct. I might try it though.
  • 3 1
 @jeremy3220: yeah so up button for upshifts, "down" the cassette to higher ratios. not to move "up" the cassette" like people are saying is "the right way"
  • 1 0
 @mattdavis458: no one at SRAM is backwards. If you have ridden their mechanical shifters, you would know that the lower lever shifts down (easier), and the upper paddle shifts up (harder). That's how all mechanical shifters function, unless you have a reverse spring derailleur, commonly known as Rapid Rise (Shimano patent).
  • 2 3
 @seraph: I've ridden their product plenty. My point was and still is, push down to go down (smaller), push up to go up (bigger). Makes the most sense in my eyes and riding experience. I dont' care how anyone else does it, when I am huffing and puffing and push the buttons, I know which way they go and I want them to go.
  • 2 4
 @mattdavis458: except they just pointed out that it kinda doesn't match your experience, since you ride their product plenty and that all works the ratio way, not the rear cog size way: low button for low gear
  • 3 2
 @justinfoil: I don't care about the ratios.......WHY are people even commenting on this. I don't care. I push up and want it to go up, up the cassette, toward the inside of the wheel, toward the low gear. When I push down, want it to get harder and go down the cassette, toward the outside, toward the littlest gear. Understand. Don't understand, don't care......my lord.
  • 1 3
 @mattdavis458: You do care. Your word count says so.

If you had a front mech with the same user interface, which way would the buttons move it? Gonna swap it so up button makes things harder instead of easier?
  • 1 2
 @justinfoil: A front derailleur, really? Did you actually say that? Please stop.
  • 1 3
 @mattdavis458: yeah, just a comparison to what you claim is "correct". Except you don't care, you say... Yet you continue to shout about what is correct... Is up a lower ratio or a higher ratio? Does it depend on what side of the bars it's on to determine if up button is high or low gearing? Or is it always to match the gear size?
  • 37 6
 If WTB doesn't call that saddle cut-out the poop-hole then their marketing team is really dropping the ball. Dario's personal bike checks are my absolute favorite. More please!
  • 4 0
 Heard they have a sponsoring deal in road cycling with Tom Dumoulin, it‘s being said he will save minutes in the next Grand Tour with this saddle.
  • 1 0
 @FuzzyL: MvDP is in. He wouldn't have to rely on protestors to delay the race.
  • 32 2
 You polish the dub crank extractor cap so that it's easier to find on the trail after it falls out. #protips_by_sram
  • 2 0
 i bedazzled mine for that very reason
  • 25 0
 That Myles Plug is pretty neat!
  • 11 0
 If Myles Plug isn't the inventor's name, he needs to change his.
  • 2 0
 I hope Myles doesn't mind, but I spun one of these off on the lathe this weekend for my son. Shorter plug holder and one piece (rather than pressed) construction but the concept is great and if they are available for sale over in the UK I'd love to buy one.
  • 16 1
 Great looking bike and dialled set up but I find the logic/methodology around the tires odd - you cite low rolling resistance as important as well as cut resistance but obvs lightweight too, so you went for EXO. But then added back in an insert (Lots of extra weight and doesn't help with cut resistance? - I'd have thought Exo+, or maybe DD without an insert, would have made more sense. (I run Exo+ with an insert). Aaaaanyway - sick bike, nice article!
  • 9 0
 DD Ikon ftw
  • 19 2
 If you're into xc racing, EXO with insert rolls faster than DD without. That casing flex = efficiency, it's not the weight that matters. But yeah, somewhere pointy like Downieville sounds sketchy with light tires.
  • 4 1
 I ran a DD 2.3 Aggressor in the back, and 2.6 Forekaster up front for All Mtn World Champs. It was the perfect race setup. Same bike but older version w/ Cascade Link, Float X and 140mm fork.

For just riding up there, never anything less than a big DD casing tire front/rear. One year I flatted 3x in the XC race, lessons learned.
  • 6 0
 To be 100% honest I would love a new forekaster in EXO+, or at least a bump to 120 tpi.
  • 8 0
 @noodlewitnosteeze: Same here. Good news is, the new Forekaster apparently is available in with EXO+ casing - according to the Maxxis website anyways. Bad news is that I've been checking different shops for availability and so far I haven't even seen it listed anywhere, let alone available to purchase...
  • 28 4
 my unpopular opinion is that most complaints about EXO tires are because people want pressures too low. I run 28-32 psi and rarely have issues. Also minimal sidewall flex. I dislike the deader fee of heavier tires. I’ll run EXO+ in back though since I’m a plower. But lighter casings at slightly higher pressure have a better feel than heavier thicker tires and lower pressure. That’s my take.
I destroyed three tires in a year trying to run sub 25 psi. Tires would burp a lot, too at those lower pressures. I find the higher pressures way better
  • 8 1
 @vectorforces: You got down voted, but after a huge stack of worn Maxxis rear tires I agree. Drop below certain psi and your Exo will die quick, above and it's a long lasting tire. (Talking rear tire, and minimum psi range depends on weight. At 190lb, 27psi is my cutoff for long term survivability).

Way snappier faster feeling bike with Exo vs DD.
  • 2 1
 @noodlewitnosteeze: im running a Forekaster v2 in EXO+ in 29x2.4. About 27 psi and its awesome on my g6 fuel in rear, (matched with a 2.5 dhf in exo up front)
Its moving a little when speed picks up but for where i ride this bike its damn good, it seems to wear much better than a dissector.
  • 2 0
 @Muscovir: Ahhh. Might have to email them I guess. 3C EXO+ sounds really nice for a trail bike, since I can never keep an Aggressor on the wheel without putting a big ol' hole in it somewhere.
  • 4 0
 @donaarblitzen: totally agree with this. For me at 170 lbs, 28 psi EXOs seem to reliably not pinch flat for everyday trail riding and by 25 psi they are pretty untrustworthy. That certainly doesn’t exclude a sidewall tear.

Someone certainly should correct me if this is wrong but that Maxxis article on Pinkbike was super helpful in understanding the casings. 120tpi is the lightest casing. 60tpi is EXO, 60tpi plus a bead strip is EXO+, double 120tpi is DD, and double 60tpi is DH casing.
  • 1 0
 @donaarblitzen: I’m talking for the rear, for the front 24-25 psi seems to be fine
  • 2 0
 @noodlewitnosteeze @Muscovir the Forekaster 3CT / EXO+ is available in the US in 29x2.40 and 29x2.60 sizes now!
  • 2 0
 Not sure what everyone's doing, and I'm not the most aggressive rider but Exo at 17-20 psi has always been great for me at plenty of rocky places
  • 5 0
 @drlancefreeride: you've got that pretty much correct. I would add that basically all the 120 TPI casing tires also have EXO in the sidewall.

Ordered by increasing durabilty:

- 120 TPI EXO: primarily for XC racing/riding
- 60 TPI EXO: general purpose trail riding
- 60 TPI EXO+: heavy duty trail riding/light enduro
- 2x120 TPI DoubleDown: enduro
- 2x60 TPI Downhill: downhill, park, freeride

EXO+, DoubleDown, and Downhill casings all use a butyl sidewall insert to help prevent pinch flats, protect the rim, and provide stability. The size and shape of the insert varies on the use case, so they get thicker and extend farther up the sidewall as you move from EXO+ to DH.
  • 3 0
 @vectorforces: I agree with this 100%. Adding a few PSI is an easy (and FREE) way to help protect your tires and wheels. Of course there's a tradeoff with traction and at some point bigger/more aggressive riders will benefit from moving to a heavier duty construction.
  • 2 1
 @ARonBurgundy: In my opinion adding a few PSI helps against bottoming out the tire or pulling it off the rim while cornering, but not so much against objects like thorns or sharp rocks, trying to puncture, cut or tear the tire. For that you need additional layers of protection which EXO just doesn't have.
  • 2 0
 @Muscovir: yes, I agree with that. I was referring more to riders who have issues with pinch flats, tire roll, or burping. If punctures are coming from the terrain then it certainly makes sense to choose a more durable construction.
  • 6 0
 Question for you Dario, Is the SRAM transmission actually good? I'm considering getting a Propain Tyee AL with XO transmission, because the pricing is pretty good, but I'm also not sure if it would be that much better than mechanical X01. Thoughts?
  • 9 0
 Not dario, but the only real downside in terms of performance is that the shifts fire off one at at time so it takes a while to shift 4+ gears at a time, not really a big deal for me personally really. Being able to shift under literally any power actually makes a big difference in your riding, when switching back to "normal" shifting I find myself wondering how I ever dealt with not being able to shift in a full sprint from a dead stop. Not having to adjust anything yet is a nice bonus.
  • 18 0
 It's really quite good.
While it is slower than mechanical (you can't just dump a grip of gears at once), it shifts at the speed I tend to pedal, so it never feels like it's falling behind. The standout feature is the smoothness of shifting under power; now that I've grown used to that it takes a moment to recalibrate to the soft-pedal mechanical shift moment.
  • 5 4
 I have XO1 regular AXS on my new bike and it's not tons better than my old GX bike. One thing I do like is if I'm flying, I can just pull the whole rear mech off and easily pack it out of harms way. I'd probably spend the money elsewhere if that doesn't matter, maybe get the carbon Tyee, it's a fun bike.
  • 5 0
 Standout features for me are the lack of B-Tension adjust screws (which I found tended to back off over time on all my mechanical & AXS derailleurs), and the ability to shift whenever you feel like it, without soft pedaling or thinking of matching your pedal stroke. There's also noticeably less chainslap than I got with AXS.
Not necessary by any means, but it is a really nice system if you've got the cash for it.
  • 10 0
 Wait. Looks like Transmission is struggling with some early manufacturing tolerance issues. I’ve got an XX derailleur that’s at the end of the adjustment range (micro adjust 1) and still struggles to downshift. Replaced it with a GX T-type that shifts flawlessly across the range in micro adjust 9. Now I’ve got a warranty fight on my hands that likely won’t be worth the time I’d have to invest to get it replaced. I’d wait.
  • 2 0
 @Blownoutrides: they have been having issues with the cassettes and chains too. Especially the chains.

When it works, it’s awesome.

But the fancy SL chains are going bad inside of 100 miles.
  • 5 0
 @dariodigiulio: Agree with this. I was starting to become complacent with the under-power performance of Transmission then went back to my standard XO1 eagle and it became very apparent that I was no longer making those micro adjustments to acommodate for shifting under load.
  • 5 1
 @plustiresaintdead: those trade-offs, one at a time vs any time, are what makes it work. If you shift an HG+, or even Eagle, one at a time, it'll go through the whole cassette pretty much any time, any power, but since you _can_ multi-shift you often do and that's where you need to be gentle with the power.

Is shifting from a dead stop in a sprint really worth it vs having to wait for the robots to catch up when you do need multiple gear right now? I hope most people have more riding experiences where they're wanting multiple shifts quickly on a trail, than multiple times where they need to sprint from a stop and also change a lot gears during that sprint. That second one doesn't seem fun.
  • 1 0
 @Blownoutrides: this was my guess as to the first major issue: relying on manufacturing tolerances for lateral alignment and especially limits, from an industry that couldn't manage to make pressfits BBs work consistently. But, it might not be SRAM's tolerances, it could be the frame/dropout (or maybe the hub). Either way, if I had to micro adjust most or all the way down, especially if it still wasn't shifting right, I'd be so wary of dropping the chain off the top and into the wheel, since it's tolerances now doing the work of the limit screws, and the tolerances it seems aren't really that great.
  • 1 4
 Personally, I love it. I skipped the standard Eagle robots, didn't see the upside vs cost. The thing about Transmission is it works flawlessly all the time due to direct mount. I've had a helluva time with derailleur hangers bending almost immediately and shifting going junk as a result. Quieter (no clacking about in chunky terrain), rebuildable, easy to set up. Also, the the sensible jump from the 44 to the 52 is way better than the old Eagle 42 to 52.

SRAM nailed it on this one.
  • 3 0
 @dariodigiulio: the big selling point of the newer microspline shimano drivetrains was supposed to be their shift under power ability. Can you compare the x0 transmission to a current gen XT or XTR drivetrain? obviously mech vs electronic is a big difference, but just as far as the shifting under power. Thanks!
  • 1 1
 I've ridden it a couple of times and I think there are pros and cons to both systems. Transmission certainly shifts better under load and it doesn't take a genius to figure out that full-power E-bikes would benefit from this the most. It also shifts slower. Multi-shifting is very slow. I thought the derailleur had stopped working the first time I tried to shift three gears at once.
It's another battery to remember to charge.
No cables to replace, again great for E-bikes that often require you to drop the motor.
No derailleur hanger to straighten.
Relying on exact tolerances for the system to work. One of my many dislikes of the original AXS was that you can't under / overshift with the shifter to help with shifting, so it sometimes just wouldn't shift. Or you have to get the adjustment so precise, or just put up with sub-par shifting. Especially if the cassette had any imperfection.
I sold my AXS as I didn't see the point of it, but Transmission is certainly an improvement. Time will tell if the constant shifting under load will lead to failure though. Or whether we should still lift off a little when shifting like we have always done.
I'm going to stick with mechanical Eagle with the derailleur pivot locked out for a while at least.
  • 7 0
 @Torbo24: Linkglide also shifts very well under power, but the sensation is different. More on this later, stay tuned!
  • 5 0
 You can setup the OG AXS to change up to 3 gears at a time, that's more than enough if you hold it down and then do it again if you need to drop a bunch of gears quickly.

Also, bought the old AXS on sale and mixed it with Shimano HG+ so it also shift under load superbly.
  • 1 5
flag plustiresaintdead (Aug 14, 2023 at 12:16) (Below Threshold)
 @justinfoil: " If you shift an HG+, or even Eagle, one at a time, it'll go through the whole cassette pretty much any time, any power, " This is absolutely not true, especially with Eagle. Have you tried transmission yet?
  • 5 0
 @Blownoutrides: I remember, probably close to 15 years ago, having to use a washer to space an X9 rear derailleur far enough outboard to get it to shift into the smallest cog.

Things are lot fancier and more expensive, but quality control is still poor across the board. And it's not just SRAM. My small sample size indicates they're somewhere around the mean these days.

Regardless, life's too short not to appreciate the irony of the direct mount standard preventing you from fixing the issue with a 10-cent washer from the hardware store.
  • 2 0
 @Torbo24: The only real difference is that ASX/Transmission can queue up the shifts. If you shift HG+ one at a time, it _will_ make _clean_ shifts under max power. I literally just did this yesterday with XT chain & mech & SLX cassette: no soft-pedaling, no slowing, just bang out a couple few _individual_ shifts mid-climb (pretty steep, going directly back up to the run-in for a fast & fun step-up).

Yes, I can't really use the big 4-at-once push of the downshift paddle in that situation, but honestly, if you need to dump gears that fast, you're probably already failing the climb, especially since on Transmission they'll come a bit slower anyway. And the queuing means you're more likely to keep smacking the button and overshoot.
  • 1 0
 @wake-n-rake: how Transmission cassettes handle the wear is definitely the big question. Even if they're not failing out-right, the shift-quality is going to degrade as the shift-ramps wear down. Eagle was so-so in this aspect, HG+ is pretty good, Trans is up in the air still.

How are you locking your b-pivot?
  • 1 0
 Not inherently opposed to batteries at all. I've been wondering if the slower shifts require the higher load to shift more quickly & if it would be a nuisance in less critical moments.

HG+ is so, so good & smooth when all tuned up but can get finicky over time when cables or chains stretch, cassettes wear, UDHs bend a bit, etc. I'd be really interested if the transmission system stayed very tuned for longer with just basic maintenance.
  • 2 0
 @Mannra: half those maintenance things you mentioned still apply to Transmission: chain and cassette wear. And I see replacing cables and perhaps checking hangers as "basic maintenance", so the answer might be "not really any longer".

Also the "shifts better under load" has applied to drivetrains in general (1x, not so much for front mechs) for a while. When unloaded, the chain is more likely to slide over the ramps (and ramps have been around for a while now). With some load the ramps, on any cassette, can apply more force to push the chain up or let it down gently.
  • 1 0
 @justinfoil: great points. I guess "indexing" would be basic maintenance as well. If it was set it and forget it until chain wear, that would be cool.

Don't want to be a luddite, but I've never had complaints with tuned up HG+ even under load so am curious how much "better" transmission would be there
  • 2 0
 @justinfoil: 1mm (I think) Cane Creek shock hardware spacer in-between the derailleur and the pivot bolt head. I originally did this on my AXS derailleur to stop the bloody thing bouncing the B-tension bolt against the derailleur hanger on descents.
  • 2 0
 @wake-n-rake: Just measure the diameter and buy some really thin washers. It's very simple and huge improvement.
  • 6 0
 @dariodigiulio I'm not the one to give you advice...(here comes the "but")...I had a Dissector on the front last year and the new Forekaster this year. Really happy with the difference. Feels more consistent in the corners for me and is a nice & fast roller.
  • 13 0
 That’s what I was hoping to run, just couldn’t get one in time.
  • 2 1
 the new forekaster is such a good tyre, I run one on the rear of my g6 fuel, its super quick and seems more durable than the dissector. I hope they make a DD version for the Big mountain days.
  • 2 0
 I feel like the Dissector has more overall grip than Forekaster (or something like an Eliminator) but it's somewhat less predictable
  • 2 1
 @Mannra: I think initially it does, but the dissector wears very quickly so overall For trail riding I think the Forekaster is a better option - I go through 2 or 3 dissectors in the time of 1 forekaster
  • 1 0
 @HeatedRotor: What makes the dissector the one maxxis tire I always hear about wearing faster than all the others? Some different compound?
  • 2 1
 @TeaPunk: well its ment to be the same 3c maxxterra... for some reason it just wears the sharp edges off after a ride or two, In the bike park i get maybe 2 days before they are toast.
  • 6 0
 Looks like SC made some subtle but positive refinements from the V4 (which I owned for a few years) to the V5 Tallboy.
With a long inseam, I found the ST Angle was still a bit slack on the V4. And the pedaling efficiency was not as good as the V3 (which I also owned for a few years) but it was much better downhill and through the rough stuff.

It really is a stout 120mm bike with a deep feeling travel. I rode my TB4 a lot more like a 140-150mm travel bike and it never seemed to mind much. I would definitely not call it down country… it’s a short travel trail bike all the way.

These days, it seems hard to justify the SC asking price though… especially compared to something like a Stumpy. But I’ll have to get out and do some test riding before I make any real judgments on that.

Dario, the custom decals look awesome, and I really enjoyed your description of why you chose certain parts like the modified 140mm Pike.
  • 1 0
 I wish they kept the tunnel on the V5 big enough to fit cool and also keep the adjustable chainstay
  • 1 0
 @stormracing: The flip chip was a casualty of UDH + Eagle Transmission… UDH doesn’t work with axle flip chips from what I understand.

I ended up preferring the 440mm Chainstay on my TB4, but appreciated the option to run 430mm.
  • 1 0
 Actual STA still looks very slack judging from how far towards the rear Dario's saddle ended up. Effective STA may be more accurate for shorter people, but for tall riders that need long seatposts it's a joke. I remember a tall mate on his overforked v1 Tallboy, he was practically sitting on top of the rear wheel.
  • 2 0
 @justwan-naride: Yep- that’s exactly what’s going on. I’ve learned to look for bikes with steeper actual STA (and actual STA closer to relative STA) as they definitely fit me better. At 33in my inseam isn’t even that long… for truly tall riders this is super important.
  • 8 1
 @dariodigiulio Great photo riding through the creek. Looks tricky. The dog is 14/10. What color are the custom decals? Hard to see with the mud. Is it oil slick?
  • 8 0
 Thanks, happy with how that line worked out - came away clean and fairly dry. Color is chrome, just a flat gloss silver.
  • 1 0
 @dariodigiulio: Classy
  • 3 1
 Trucks are cool and all but I’m 100% here for the dogs as bike adjacent content.
  • 7 0
 Is that a Garmin mount on the seat tube?

The aggressive tallboy/trail bike is what average riders should be on for 90% of their rides.
  • 4 0
 Yeah, little crotch gazer Wahoo mount. Keeps it out of view except when you need to see it.
  • 6 2
 "Intended use: long XC, but make it fun"

Yes, this perfectly describes the Tallboy! The lively and energetic ride quality of a short-travel bike paired to that trademark Santa Cruz burliness were exactly the character traits that convinced me to buy a V5 Tallboy. I know it's only a marketing phrase, but SC wasn't lying when they advertised this thing as the "Downhiller's XC Bike". That's just exactly what it is. I love mine and would have a seriously hard time coming up with any complaints about it. The only real point of criticism I can think of is the price. Other than that, everything is incredibly dialed.

Definitley looking forward to the full review. Not gonna lie, secretly I was hoping for a short-travel field test featuring Tallboy vs. SB120 vs. Smuggler vs. Optic - but a review by Dario will certainly do.
  • 5 0
 Throw the Banshee Phantom in as well (not just because I own one)
  • 6 0
 Dario, I love you bike man; everything is well found and it makes sense.
Keep giving us some great articles like this as well as all the others you participate in. Gracie ;-)
  • 1 0
 Thanks! Glad ya dig.
  • 8 0
 "Wash Me"
  • 48 2
 no
  • 6 0
 There is a hose right there.
  • 3 1
 Dirty bikes are cool.
  • 1 0
 Less time washing, less squeaky-squeaky, more time riding
  • 5 2
 People love to dump on Santa Cruz for their pricing etc but they do make great bikes. I still have 2015 XL carbon nomad V3 in my quiver, bought 1 size up at the time and it's still relatively current with modern geo in reach and HA etc for my size, built with decent kit originally and well maintained its still lighter than most meats more modern high end bikes, vorsprung coil pike, vorsprung tuned debonair which I'd highly recommend. Have had bearings done free of charge once, has had a hard life but is still rockin almost 10 years later.. most longevity ive ever had from a frame..
  • 6 0
 Dario's a bit faster than he lets on...
  • 2 0
 I'd love to go back and ride downieville on a proper modern bike. I've done it on clapped out 3x9 xc bikes with tubes and 26" tires. Between the constant rocks, riding through water and snow, and intermittent climbs between jackhammer downhills my bike would be thrashed after just 1 run. This looks like a perfect build for downieville, congrats on the podium finish
  • 2 0
 Definitely worth a trip back, it’s a treat when the bike is up to the task.
Stoked on how the day turned out!
  • 2 0
 @dariodigiulio: you're too modest to mention it but congratulations on your podium finish, nice
  • 1 0
 @dariodigiulio: let me know if you need help testing a new bike and I'll meet you up there for a few runs and beers on the river
  • 5 0
 Damn... this thing does look fun
  • 3 0
 I put a 140mm Fox 36 on my 2021 Tallboy with a Cascade link. Not sure about the link but the 140mm Fox 36 was definitely the right way to go over the stock 34.
  • 4 1
 For 10k+ bikes, I think SC should put some thought into a cool headtube badge. My 3 SCs only had a sticker, so I guess they made a little progress........
  • 1 0
 Question to the locals and everyone who knows the trails around Downieville and the surrounding Sierra trails what bike / bike set-up is best?
I recently relocated in the flats of the delta and sierras are the closest mountains around so I ve got lots of trips planned , thinking about building up a dedicated Sierra bike!
  • 6 0
 What they used to call an all mountain bike. You want to be able to get down anything, but also pedal all day
  • 4 0
 140/150mm that you can pedal all day. Stout wheels/tires for sure.

Good descender and tech climber, 64 HA.
  • 2 0
 250cc 4 stroke. Just kidding but if you have a plated bike you could have all kinds of adventures
  • 3 0
 Not that the weight is a huge deal but considering the price of the frame and parts I’m surprised it still came in over 30 lbs for 120 bike.
  • 1 0
 no kidding. my 150 bike weighs less than 30lbs if I run EXO tires. I wouldn't do that though. so in all honesty, its a shade under 32lbs with DD casings. this thing should be 28lbs ready to shred.
  • 1 0
 My 2022 Stumpjumper is 26lbs with burly tires. Those SC frames are boat anchors, something like 7.5lbs for a 120mm travel frame.
  • 1 0
 Hi @dariodigiulio ,
Knowing I'm 6,1 and 34 inseam, do you think I should go for a Large or XL Tallboy? I'm more for a nimble and playful bike that a stable one. However on a Large size I'm wondering if the short seat tube and and the seat tube angle would work with my long legs.
What do you think? Is the XL nimble enough?
Thanks.
  • 5 1
 Seat tube angle looks very slack?
  • 2 0
 Might have something to do with the extra 10mm on the fork.
  • 4 2
 It's not the steepest, but IMO that's a good thing. Personally I feel like slacker seat tube angles help me achieve a seated pedaling position that enables me to generate power more easily. Might just be me though.
  • 4 1
 @Muscovir:
I like slacker-than-modern seat tube angles for a similar reason.
Too-steep seat angles make for short top tube lengths at ideal reach. 76-77 degrees allows me to pedal comfortably when seated.
78+ makes a cockpit feel cramped on anything but steep uphills - I don't run nearly long enough reach to make a top tube work out at 78-80 degree seat tube angle.
  • 2 1
 @Muscovir: something we agree on, nice.
  • 2 0
 I, too, choose my brakes by color to match the rest of the bike. Nice to see that this refined method has dripped down to pro level racing.
  • 3 0
 Love the real world bike check! I just built up a very similar Tallboy, great all-day bike.
  • 4 1
 The world (or dentists bank accounts) still needs a thorough comparison of the luftkapfe vs the dsd runt.
  • 1 1
 I'm debating on going back to a Tallboy. Had one three years ago with the new lower link, liked it a lot but I bought it too big (XL when I should have been on a L). But woof, 30 pounds for a short travel bike? Mine weighed maybe 27 pounds with flat pedals and alloy wheelset. All that extra weight really reduces suspension performance, especially with shorter stroke forks and shocks. Though, I know Fox and RS make the Float X and SDU in 190x45 now...
  • 2 0
 FYI Santa Cruz sells sticker packs to change the color of their logo they work for bikes made since I believe 2015.
  • 2 0
 so sick, all the brand sheep crying that the new trek was mixing fox and rockshox should be punished will love this
  • 1 0
 Ran that shock on a Blur Tr for the XC course. Pretty sure it was 1000 degrees when I burnt my had on it grabbing a bottle around mile 22.
  • 3 0
 I want the tire plug in the fork
  • 1 0
 I'll buy one of these day one if someone starts selling them
  • 1 2
 Don‘t know about that race, but a Spur with dhr II FR and dissector rear in exo (plus) with a pike would be my way to go - light and quick on the climbs and hard to beat on the downhills.
  • 4 1
 Tallboy FTW.
  • 2 0
 Sod the bike....moar doge details!
  • 5 6
 That's amazing a 8000 $ bike with light suspension carbon hoops 30 lbs..my all aluminum slash with burly everything is 36..and it cost me a quarter of the price..make bikes light again
  • 2 0
 Ask and you shall receive hey @dariodigiulio
  • 2 0
 Absolutely stunning, gorgeous colour. The bike is also okay
  • 2 0
 When I see a derailleur that close to the ground my whole body tenses up!
  • 1 0
 @dariodigiulio Which manufacturer is the top cap from?

Thanks
  • 1 0
 I think Project321 was giving them out as booth swag at Sea Otter.
  • 1 0
 Size XL, with only a 493mm reach??
  • 15 0
 The current Santa Cruz models have taller headtubes and more stack in the largest sizes than some other brands. On the XL tallboy in lo, stack is 648 and the head tube length is 145. This makes the more moderate reach numbers comparable in effective reach to many other brands with longer reach, but way too short head tubes (*cough* Transition *cough*). And effective reach is really what matters for fit. I don't love everything about Santa Cruz but I wish more brands would take their approach to stack.
  • 9 0
 @Bro-tato: I personally think Santa Cruz is doing a great job with geo. Size specific chainstays and stack heights keeping pace with the reach.
  • 7 3
 Yes, and in my opinion Santa Cruz is currently doing a fantastic job with frame geometry - probably the best out of all frame manufacturers.

What they've been doing for all of their "new era" bikes (2022 and beyond) was pairing the already moderately long reach figures of yesterday with an appropriate stack. This increases cockpit height and thus "effective reach" (for lack of a better term. Makes for an incredibly dialed combination IMO.

Besides, for the giants among us they've got a size XXL available, with 520mm reach.
  • 6 1
 @Bro-tato: Couldn't agree more. That's pretty much the exact reason why I decided against a Transition Smuggler and in favour of a Tallboy when shopping for a new bike.
  • 4 0
 @Muscovir: Yeah I like Transition for other reasons, but seated fit is not one of them. If you're on any size above a Medium you end up with a stack'o'spacers under your stem. Or you would, if Transition didn't ship the bike with the fork already cut ridiculously short. Smile
  • 6 9
 2021 spesh 140/130 stump jumper will walk this bike both up and down. The tallboy is definitely stiffer and at this travel range I don't even see that as an advantage. Soft on top then too progressive with not enough travel equals jack hammer along with porky stiff frame.

Stumpy 130 same build prob about 2 pounds lighter. More compliant. More travel and better more consistent travel. Sure gotta work the flip switch on shock but that's a minor inconvenience and honestly I could see using that lever on the tallboy too for that race.
  • 1 0
 What Tallboy version is it, the TB5 2024 in white and green?
  • 2 2
 "Intended use: long XC, but make it fun." Soooo, downcountry rig.
  • 3 2
 long XC sounds so much better than downcountry.... actually makes sense aswell.
  • 6 2
 @HeatedRotor: Also called: a bike ride
  • 3 3
 @HeatedRotor: I like downcountry term.
  • 1 0
 @HeatedRotor: But how is "long XC" different to XCM?
  • 4 3
 Tallboy = Best Bike Ever
Below threshold threads are hidden







Copyright © 2000 - 2024. Pinkbike.com. All rights reserved.
dv56 0.049875
Mobile Version of Website