If you've spent much time online, you might have seen videos of people seating their truck tires by using explosions. Which got me thinking: Would that detonation strategy also work on a mountain bike wheel and tire? We spent the day with some Quick-Start and a fire extinguisher to find out. Oh, and please don't try this at home.
@pedalmore: while true, if lighter fluid was poured in and ran around the inside of the tire like sealant and lit by the valve stem. It would definitely inflate to the bead then lose the air. But it wouldve been a better way to get more fluid in.
Was thinking this too. Inject the gas through the valve, put a wick in there and light up the wick. Sure some fire may leave through the valve but there sure must be enough that goes in.
That said, seems like people can be quite desperate trying to seat a tire. Other than for a quick trailside fix (ideally mansplaining a tire installation on a desperate fellow mtbers tire), I don't see myself do this on my own bike. And I'd stick with pure hydrogen to cut back a little on my carbon footprint.
Other suggestion I'd refrain from is to, after igniting the wick, install a track pump to get more air (and oxigen) there. Even though this could prove effective, not all pumps have an adequate safety valve to deal with the backfire. Ideally you check the pump manual first. If it doesn't give any warnings in this regard, you'll be fine.
Fine print/disclaimer: If you're notorious for taking things seriously, please disregard anything you read in my post.
Odds are the air mixture would be too rich.
Also possible that after seating the bead, the vacuum from the rapidly cooling air would pull the bead right back off.
@JSTootell: Unless you have the valve core removed. Too rich of an air mixture would indeed be an issue. Some explosives don't need oxygen, do they? I recall this goes for dynamite. So that may be a solution.
@pedalmore: if you set the bead this way the pressure insode rge tire will be lower than the pressure outside (athmosferic), so you actually have to remove the valve core. Not sure why
@JSTootell: Yes this is true. I have done this method on countless atv tires of all sizes. Learned it from a friend's dad who would seat truck tires with starting fluid. Be careful, have had some close calls, but for the most part it works great and is a lot of fun gto boot !!!
@bigpeaches: You are right. It's in the first few minutes of Part 2 of the full episode. The red Hilux behind has white rims. The tyre is on the rim when they first inspect the damage.
@vinay: THe valve is probably too small to allow enough airflow. But, that is just a guess without doing any experimenting (which I am not going to do).
Dynamite and other how powered explosives have their own oxidizer and reducer, which is why they do not require oxygen. They also tend to be unstable, or extremely powerful, or combust way to rapidly (explode). Think of Beirut and the explosion they just had.
Yeah felt weird watching and laughing at this knowing my mtns are on fire from someones gender reveal party and thinking this could be the cause of the next fire.
Yeah, I agree it looks really dangerous. Shame on you for @mikelevy for demonstrating this kind of failure. Next time you should guarantee results and go straight for the semtex option.
@bigtim: it's not just the fire itself - with massive tires like those for trucks, you're talking a whole different level of energy and potential for disaster. A tire not seated properly can catapult a person a few meters in the air, not to mention the rim.
As for Levy's tan - definitely a way to improve that. Semtex Vs pressfit, i say
I just read the title and before the thumbnail loaded I knew it was Mike Levy attempting that. He's consistent with his own brand I gotta give him that.
You... you need to let some air in. After it burned out for the first time there wasn't any oxygen left to do anything... also I'm not sure how spraying it on the tire from a side is supposed to seat it.
Can't agree more. I remember making potato cannons when I was a kid, and the more air the better. Honestly, even a shot of hairspray is enough. Loving the Worksafe friendly video. Never seen safety toed flip flops before.
The idea is that the tire doesnt sit properly on the rim, so you need to create a controlled explosion to make the bead seat. MTB tires are flimsy and already really close to the bead, so you can't just put that spray inside the tire. Basically, if the air compressor can't get the job done, you'll need the brute force of fire.
Their problem was igniting the liquid and not fumes. To get an explosion, you need access to oxygen, which doesn’t happen under the surface of the liquid. Don’t do this (necessarily) but putting a tea/tablespoon of gasoline and letting it sit should allow the fumes to spread across the tire. Also, try to ignite the portion that isn’t liquid. I would also recommend going through and doing the chemistry: seeing how much gas you would need to add one atmosphere of gas to the tire and work your way up to there.
Please do! People are primed and ready to see someone make a better attempt- though Levy is definitely amusing to watch and I hope PB keeps up with vids like this
Nobody mentioned the Grim Donut t-shirt yet that he's wearing? I love how they are riding the hype of it Once the official test ride report of the donut eventually drops, it'll almost certainly be a disappointment as all the myth and speculation will be over.
“Alright boys and girls, everybody’s finally sold out of everything, and nobody’s making anything new cuz the factories are all maxed cranking out reorders. We’ve got absolutely nothing to write about.
But, we got all this new money coming in from Trailforks now so we can still afford to pay you. Gimme something. Anything.”
It's not an explosion, it's a conflagration, aka just a fire, a fast combustion. An explosion means the flame-front goes faster than the speed of sound. If a supersonic flame-front hit the inside of your tire, pretty sure seating the bead wouldn't be an issue, because the bead might be all that's left.
Just like there aren't explosions in a car engine in normal operation, either. Though many people truly think there are. I mean, they are called internal _combustion_ engines, not internal _explosion_ engines.
It is an explosion. The technical terms you are looking for are detonation and deflagration. In a detonation, the shock wave initiates the chemical reaction as it travels through the material, in a deflagration it is the heat that initiates the reaction. "Explosion" is a general term that covers any rapid release of energy.
Maxxis tire on a DT rim with Gorilla Tape-that combo practically snap into place by itself!! How about a video of fixing a stuck SRAM master cylinder by lighting it on fire? Or rebuilding a Reverb by lighting it on fire? Maybe rebuilding some Eggbeaters by lighting them on fire??
PSA, When you accidentally bring 2 gloves from the same hand to the trailhead, if you turn one of them inside out, it will fit the other hand. Which is WAY better than riding with a glove upside down...
@lambypie: More a case of too rich... its the same principal as with a potato gun or an internal combustion engine cylinder... the actual amount of fuel you need to achieve a proper detonation is small compared to the air volume. Also you want a mist/vapor, not a stream or puddle of propellant.
Ether is flammable enough but it floats away that’s why we always used acetylene because it’s a heavy gas & it doesn’t just float away on the air, gasoline works really good as well so long as you have someone still shooting in compressed air as you toss a match in.
Come on, you need a flammable mixture. That means oxygen and butane both must be inside the tire. Anything burning outside is irrelevant except as a means to get a tiny bit of flame inside the tire. When it gets lit the mixture of butane and air can combust inside the tire. "gets lit"
I’ve done this successfully with petrol, and also octane booster. You need a rapid flame front or explosion. Just making a fire won’t get the rapid expansion you need. I squirted the fuel using an old pump trigger window cleaner bottle. You need a very lean AFR (air fuel ratio), as in a tiny bit of fuel (preferably vapour) and a LOT of oxygen. I could probably get it to work 75% of the tine once I’d worked out how many pumps of fuel made a bang, not a fire. The next problem is the hot gasses contract, and suck the bead back off the rim!! That’s why all the successful videos of it on truck tyres have the compressor on the valve already. You need to get a good volume of air in the tyre sharpish to stop it deflating. Which leads you full circle back to having a compressor, which kind of defeats the object of an easy trailside bead seating. Still, it’s fun making things go pop!!!
Every good country boy knows all those youtube guys use starting fluid. Butane will burn slower and must have a lot more to explode. Unlike starting fluid that is like gasoline (or petrol) where the vapors are flammable as well. Try again with engine starting fluid.
Chemist here...I would say it looks like you are using too much fuel/not enough oxygen.
Given that you can't add oxygen, I'd use the absolute minimal amount of fuel if you want explosive ignition. If you fill that tyre with spray there's no air in there and it'll just burn from the outside not explode.
- spray lighter fluid in a cross pattern inside the tire/rim (ie top/bottom/left/right so that there is fuel a little bit everywhere)
- light up one side (just spray fluid a bit on the side of one of the places you put lighter on, so that you can light it up)
- if it doesnt pop right away hit the tire with your shoe on the sidewalk
boom it pops. its not an explosion btw. its pressure - the fire is hungry for oxygen that goes through the valve. if you do not remove the valve core IT CANNOT WORK - physics lol.
Oh also bic lighter > these crappy things to get a flame haha.
Bike mechanic here. Seeing duct tape put over DT Swiss tubeless tape was ugly enough. But seeing flames dance over nice DT Swiss wheel and Maxxis tire was even uglier. Waiting for part II, where Mike uses tips from comments to get it right...
Not sure if it has been mention in all of these comments, but my time in the auto industry we used that method and the really thick bag balm like soap. Soap method messy and time consuming you have to pack the soap around the bead to seal it when you put the air to it. The other method is with starting fluid not lighter fluid, starter fluid is like either very combustible and almost explosive. It needs to be a pretty fresh can or it burns the same way the lighter fluid did. it needs to be quick and abrupt. Not responsible for anyone that blows them selves up.
Couldn't have done the least bit of research to learn the correct fuel to use? Ether, starter fluid (usually ether anyway), most brake cleaners. You need something that burns as fast as possible.
Would have been way more entertaining if it even had a remote chance of working.
You should get a real scientist and make one blow to shreds, then calculate how many limbs would have been lost by lighting it with a regular bbq lighter.
Uhhhmmm..Fire is cool and all but what ever happened to using an air compressor to seat the bead?...it takes about 3 seconds and the job is done. Maybe I can rig my air compressor to shoot out a flame as the bead seats?
I "jagged tires" for two years at a Goodyear I've done this. It's not safe Looks as if you swept the pavement before you started? You think some idiot going to set a forest ablaze attempting this on the trail. Good thing Richard Pryor didn't ride. He had a problem with flammables too.
Wow Mike, you are a disaster. I have done this many times, all successful. Get a syringe with 1cc of gasoline. Inject into a DRY tire. Ignite with match. It's a self regulating reaction. After the bead is seated, inject sealant through valve and inflate.
Too much fuel! Fuel just burns, you need the oxygen for an explosion for the pop. i dont know but i suspect you would be better off putting a small dab of gas in, but then giving it a few minutes to swirl around the tyre and mix properly.
Disclaimer! Don't do it! if that would be me I would drop a bit of carbide into the tyre, put the tyre on rim and add quick slash of water through valve with REMOVED core. sniffing if reaction started (acetylene filling in the tyre, you should even hear it) then, lit the gas coming out from the valve. it would create explosion big enough to set up the tyre. just don't overdose the carbide. P.S. better fix the rim to something. cheers. I know all that from the chemistry classes.
"Defiantly don't film it and defiantly don't send me the video." All said while nodding his head yes. It's all just so amusing. I'm enjoying the driveway scene, the bro-feel to it. The idea of some numb-nuts getting hurt while attempting this and all of us laughing. If a thousand of us made the attempt, how many would be successful?
half saws! this technique is used to inflate the wheels of trucks (but also of cars), you need a very flammable gas that causes an explosion not a fire
sucked. is this what you wanted to waste my time with? At least I knew enough to skip to about half the way into the video, then keep skipping only to find NOTHING
I predict your combustion chamber was to small. You need a bigger explosion to have enough force to move the tire. Try a 4.8 inch fat tire professor Levy.
With all the fires raging across north america right now, can we save this for the winter? or at least perform it in a parking lot devoid of leaves and dry vegetation?
This was so dumb and disappointing: 1. Why cant you use the proper terms describing the parts of the rim? 'This part' is called the rim bed for instance, and 'the side wall' is actually called the bead seat. 2. Why use gorilla tape when you already have a quality tubless tape from DT Swiss already installed? 3. WTF with butane?? no f in chance that was going to work. You need to use Brake cleaner or Ether. it needs to be WAY flamable.....not just butane flamable 4. rubber gloves while doing this was the dumbest thing I have seen in a while, even after you commented that they might melt to your skin, you still used them. DARWIN??
The safety vest melting to his teets, the goggles melting to the eyelids, the flip flops liquidating onto his feet.
But he was using butane, so chances were slim to none.
Seating is tire is easy with an air compressor or bike tire inflator. Just remove the valve core when doing because it allows higher volume of air flow and less resistance.
That said, seems like people can be quite desperate trying to seat a tire. Other than for a quick trailside fix (ideally mansplaining a tire installation on a desperate fellow mtbers tire), I don't see myself do this on my own bike. And I'd stick with pure hydrogen to cut back a little on my carbon footprint.
Other suggestion I'd refrain from is to, after igniting the wick, install a track pump to get more air (and oxigen) there. Even though this could prove effective, not all pumps have an adequate safety valve to deal with the backfire. Ideally you check the pump manual first. If it doesn't give any warnings in this regard, you'll be fine.
Fine print/disclaimer: If you're notorious for taking things seriously, please disregard anything you read in my post.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGsE17d_VYs
[Edit] Dammit. Saw it in seconds. How did I miss the hose attached to the valve?
Dynamite and other how powered explosives have their own oxidizer and reducer, which is why they do not require oxygen. They also tend to be unstable, or extremely powerful, or combust way to rapidly (explode). Think of Beirut and the explosion they just had.
Other than that, and this from a guy who burned his eyebrows more than once - hilarious video. I was really hoping you might be on to something.
As for Levy's tan - definitely a way to improve that. Semtex Vs pressfit, i say
Their problem was igniting the liquid and not fumes. To get an explosion, you need access to oxygen, which doesn’t happen under the surface of the liquid. Don’t do this (necessarily) but putting a tea/tablespoon of gasoline and letting it sit should allow the fumes to spread across the tire. Also, try to ignite the portion that isn’t liquid. I would also recommend going through and doing the chemistry: seeing how much gas you would need to add one atmosphere of gas to the tire and work your way up to there.
Once the official test ride report of the donut eventually drops, it'll almost certainly be a disappointment as all the myth and speculation will be over.
“Alright boys and girls, everybody’s finally sold out of everything, and nobody’s making anything new cuz the factories are all maxed cranking out reorders. We’ve got absolutely nothing to write about.
But, we got all this new money coming in from Trailforks now so we can still afford to pay you. Gimme something. Anything.”
Levy: “Hold my doughnut...”
www.brewracingframes.com/safety-alert-brake-cleaner--phosgene-gas.html
You need a rapid burn aka explosion and enough oxygen to support it.
Also: www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2nI069R7Vc
Given that you can't add oxygen, I'd use the absolute minimal amount of fuel if you want explosive ignition. If you fill that tyre with spray there's no air in there and it'll just burn from the outside not explode.
- spray lighter fluid in a cross pattern inside the tire/rim (ie top/bottom/left/right so that there is fuel a little bit everywhere)
- light up one side (just spray fluid a bit on the side of one of the places you put lighter on, so that you can light it up)
- if it doesnt pop right away hit the tire with your shoe on the sidewalk
boom it pops. its not an explosion btw. its pressure - the fire is hungry for oxygen that goes through the valve. if you do not remove the valve core IT CANNOT WORK - physics lol.
Oh also bic lighter > these crappy things to get a flame haha.
Would have been way more entertaining if it even had a remote chance of working.
Looks as if you swept the pavement before you started?
You think some idiot going to set a forest ablaze attempting this on the trail.
Good thing Richard Pryor didn't ride. He had a problem with flammables too.
if that would be me I would drop a bit of carbide into the tyre, put the tyre on rim and add quick slash of water through valve with REMOVED core. sniffing if reaction started (acetylene filling in the tyre, you should even hear it) then, lit the gas coming out from the valve. it would create explosion big enough to set up the tyre. just don't overdose the carbide. P.S. better fix the rim to something. cheers. I know all that from the chemistry classes.
It's all just so amusing. I'm enjoying the driveway scene, the bro-feel to it. The idea of some numb-nuts getting hurt while attempting this and all of us laughing.
If a thousand of us made the attempt, how many would be successful?
I love it!
There are plenty of other ways to get injured on the trails.
1. Why cant you use the proper terms describing the parts of the rim? 'This part' is called the rim bed for instance, and 'the side wall' is actually called the bead seat.
2. Why use gorilla tape when you already have a quality tubless tape from DT Swiss already installed?
3. WTF with butane?? no f in chance that was going to work. You need to use Brake cleaner or Ether. it needs to be WAY flamable.....not just butane flamable
4. rubber gloves while doing this was the dumbest thing I have seen in a while, even after you commented that they might melt to your skin, you still used them. DARWIN??
coulda been cool, but wasn't