For the past five years there's been a hole in Manitou's lineup, a space in between the Mattoc trail fork and the Dorado inverted DH fork. The recently released Mezzer is the missing puzzle piece, and with 37mm stanchions and up to 180mm of travel it's aimed at the enduro / big mountain riders out there.
Suspension tinkerers will be happy to see that the air-sprung fork has adjustable high- and low-speed compression damping, and also features Manitou's Infinite Rate Tune (IRT) design, which allows the fork's mid- and end-stroke feel to be adjusted separately from the beginning stroke.
Available with either 37 or 44mm of offset for 27.5" wheels, and 44 or 51mm of offset for 29" wheels, the Mezzer Pro is priced at $999 USD.
Manitou Mezzer Pro Details• Air-sprung
• Wheel size: 29" or 27.5" options
• Adjustments: High- and low-speed compression, rebound, Infinite Rate Tune
• Travel: 160, 170, 180mm
• Offsets: 37mm, 44mm (27.5"); 44mm, 51mm (29")
• 37mm stanchions
• Weight: 2,030 grams (29", 160mm)
• Price: $999 USD
• www.manitoumtb.com Chassis Details According to Manitou, the Mezzer is 28% stiffer than the competition, thanks in part to those 37mm stanchions. Now, stiffer doesn't always mean better, but it's a bullet point that's worth mentioning. Manitou's signature reverse-arch is in place, a design that allows for weight savings due to the lower arch height compared to forks with the arch in the front, while also protecting the fork seals from the mud and grit that's flung up by the front tire. On the topic of flying mud, the Mezzer includes a bolt-on fender that attaches to the backside of the arch. I wouldn't mind if the plastic was a little less flexible to prevent any noise, but it does the trick.
Previously, the brake line routing on Manitou's reverse arch forks looked a little odd – the housing ran along the back of the fork, and added to the 'Your fork is on backward' aesthetic. That's been sorted out on the Mezzer, and there's a cable guide on the front that orients the brake housing in a more typical manner. However, if you really want to run the housing the old way, that's still an option.
High- and low-speed compression are adjusted on the top of the right leg, and the low-speed rebound is adjusted at the bottom.
Adjustments The Mezzer uses the same air spring that's found in the Dorado downhill fork, along with Manitou's Infinite Rate Tune (IRT) system. IRT is a secondary air chamber that allows the fork's mid-stroke to be adjusted independently of the beginning stroke. It can take a little experimentation to find the right balance, but Manitou's setup guide is a good place to start. The IRT chamber air pressure is set first, and then the main air chamber is inflated via the valve at the bottom of the fork leg.
The Mezzer doesn't use a volume spacer system to adjust the amount of bottom-out resistance, but that can be tuned to some extent via the IRT chamber, and on top of that there's a hydraulic bottom-out feature, a separate damping circuit that controls that last bit of travel to prevent any harshness at the end of the stroke.
Compression and rebound duties are taken care of in the right side of the fork, where a bladder-style sealed cartridge damper resides. High- and low-speed compression are adjusted externally via dials on the top of the fork, and low-speed rebound damping is adjusted at the bottom of the fork by turning the blue knob. There are 11 clicks of LSC adjustment, 5 clicks of HSC, and 10 clicks of rebound.
Changing the travel of a Fox or RockShox fork typically requires purchasing a new air shaft, but that's not the case with the Mezzer. Instead, plastic spacers are added to the air shaft to reduce the travel. That does require disassembling the fork, but if you're careful it's a procedure that can be done without any oil loss.
SetupThese days, the vast majority of bikes that arrive for review are equipped with RockShox or Fox suspension, and I've become adept at getting them dialed in within a ride or two. That process took a little longer with the Mezzer, and I tried multiple air pressure settings before deciding on 56 psi in the main chamber and 84 in the IRT chamber for my 160 lb weight. Those numbers are very close to what Manitou recommends; the only difference is that I ran a little more pressure in the main chamber in order to achieve the ride height I was looking for.
As far as compression settings go, I ran a fairly open setup, with LSC set at 8 clicks from closed (3 from open), and HSC 4 clicks from closed (1 from open). I found that the low-speed dial didn't have nearly as much of an affect as the high-speed compression dial, and while the difference between the HSC clicks is very noticeable, even at slower shaft speeds, the low-speed dial didn't make a drastic change in the ride feel no matter where it was set, at least in regards to the setup I was running. Adding more high-speed compression would have made it possible to have slightly more low speed compression available, but during testing I was typically looking for lighter, not firmer, compression settings.
PerformanceI've found that back-to-back testing is one of the most effective ways to suss out a fork's strengths and weaknesses. Otherwise, you start to forget how the other fork felt, and are less likely to pick up on the differences. With the Mezzer, I chose to pit it against a 160mm RockShox Lyrik RC2 after I'd put in plenty of ride time on my home trails to find my base settings.
The Whistler Bike Park served as the testing ground, where I took laps on the Mezzer, switched over to the Lyrik, and then back to the Mezzer on multiple occasions. In the parking lot both forks feel nice and sensitive off the top, but on the trail the Lyrik felt more comfortable, with a more supple, ground-hugging feel, especially on the multiple root-choked sections of trails like
Miss Fire and BC's. In addition, the Mezzer didn't seem to deliver as much grip, and it occasionally felt unsettled when I went through a chattery section of trail - say, a section of braking bumps on a moderately steep pitch. In that scenario it felt slightly harsh, and it wasn't able to make the bumps disappear in the same way that the Lyrik was.
Despite my best efforts, I just couldn't achieve a setup that gave me the floaty smoothness that I look for in a high-end fork. I experimented with different air pressures in the main and IRT chambers, and running the LSC and HSC all the way open, but no matter what I did the fork never felt like it was on the same level as a Lyrik or 36 when it comes to compliance and overall comfort, especially on rough, high speed sections of trail.
The Mezzer does deliver plenty of mid-stroke support, which comes in handy when there are multiple big impacts in a row, or in extra-steep terrain - in those instances it did a commendable job of staying in the sweet spot of its travel and not diving too deeply. The IRT feature is going to be especially useful for hard chargers or bigger riders who typically need to run higher pressures in their forks, since it allows for a softer beginning stroke than what would usually be possible with a single-chamber fork.
The hydraulic bottom-out feature worked as claimed, too, and there wasn't any harshness or disconcerting noises even when landing off of sizeable drops. As far as stiffness goes, I can't say I noticed a drastic difference between the Mezzer and a Lyrik, or a 36 for that matter, but I'm also not currently in the running for the World's Strongest Man title. All the same, it has a reassuringly stout feel, and there wasn't any unwanted twisting or vagueness in rough terrain or during hard cornering.
IssuesPartway through testing the Mezzer developed what I would call excessive bushing play. It wasn't always noticeable, but occasionally on sections of trail where the front end was partially unweighted I could feel unwanted vibrations. It's a sensation similar to riding with a loose headset – when it happens you instantly get the feeling that something's not quite right, and it's not something that should happen to a relatively new fork.
Pros
+ Adjustable mid-stroke feature allows for high level of customization
+ Hydraulic bottom out feature works well
Cons
- Bushing play
- Limited low-speed compression adjustment range
- Overall damper feel isn't quite at the same level as competitors'
Pinkbike's Take | I wholeheartedly wanted to see the Mezzer step into the ring and hold its own against the heavyweights, but unfortunately it's just not quite there yet. It's close, but with a price that's nearly identical to a Lyrik or a 36, it needs to deliver performance that's at least on par with those two benchmarks before I can give it two thumbs up. — Mike Kazimer |
Light shim stacks need to be stiffened (via HSC knob) in order to make the LSC adjuster to have an effect, otherwise you close the low speed circuit but the oil flows through the piston.
Manitou made a setup guide, you could have just followed it and this "issue" wouldn't have existed.
On the guide they raise both knobs proportionally for a good reason.
Bushing play isn't acceptable.
From this starting point, if you want more LSC you need to add HSC as well or it won't have effect.
He said that HSC had more effect than LSC even at low speed compressions, that's not because HSC control low speed (is not possible) but because previously added LSC clicks begin to work.
He used compression knobs like you do on a lyrik, this is not a lyrik.
Came here to echo what Steve gave us in that Tuesday tune video that I still hear every time I start tinkering... “The more HSC you have, the more LSC you can get.”
As I mentioned, I followed the setup guide, and even my HSC / LSC settings are within the range that Manitou recommends for a DH-oriented setup. Despite that, the fork still felt harsher than I wanted - adding more compression wouldn't have helped that.
It's likely your mindset is more familiar with the RS and Fox way of doing things and this fork requires a slight change in mindset to set it up.
And @brappjuice, I did follow the set up guide, and then adjusted my settings ever so slightly. Recommended settings are just that - recommendations. A 2 psi difference in the main air chamber isn't going to radically change the overall feel.
Also, the bushing play was a bigger issue for me than any air or compression settings.
There is a lot of adjustment crossover with this design. That isn't really the problem though. The problem is there is just too much high speed damping like my Magnum. There is a company in New Zealand that sells modified pistons with more holes to let more oil through the high speed shim stack. Oddly, Manitou still has not employed this as stock.
You can modify the shim stack and damping curve all you want- you can even use lighter weight oil- and it will still be too harsh. My SID WC is still way more forgiving than my Magnum. SIDs aren't very plush, so Manitou is still way out of the ball park on this front.
You could fix this problem with a Dremel...
There is a review on bike radar that came out today, from a guy who took the time to set up the fork properly. People can check it out if they care enough.
The shockcraft piston that you are talking about for the mattoc/magnum series is a rebound piston, not a compression piston.
However, I don't believe the underwhelming performance can be (totally) attributed to setup though. I highly suspect that the fork was run dry from factory (as happens too often when reading riders feedback). If this is the case, it's absolutely Manitou's fault and it should be reflected in the ratings.
If you still have the fork at your disposal, would you be prepared to check the grease and oil levels and, if they aren't as they should be, do a short retest? This would be very useful for potential buyers and I would highly appreciate the effort!
I don't really think it's good or bad, it just is what it is. If you are worried about temperature fluctuations, my experience so far has been that 20-30 degree (f) temp fluctuations don't impact the pressure in the main chamber considerably or any more than any other fork.
First of all, Mike knows as much or more than the average PB user, so if he can't find the love then I suspect it would be the same for rest of us.
Second, is it reasonable to expect that a consumer will tear down a brand new $1000 USD fork? Does it make sense that Manitou sent a crap fork to be reviewed that wasn't ready for prime time?
So yeah, pretty much the fork sucks unless Manitou can make it right. It's not Mike's job to assess why a fork sucks.
Hey Mike, would you give the Messer a second shot if Manitou found the shock to be defective?
You are not right about the fork, the Mezzer is an awesome suspension, i'm using it since june and still can't believe how good it is.
Someone could prefer the Lyrik behaviour and i'm not going to question that, or the Mezzer sent to PB could be bone dry (Manitou's fault anyway), this won't change my opinion. There are other reviews describing the mezzer as an awesome fork, i think personal preferences come in play in this situations.
I can't accept lack of basic suspension knowledge, hydraulics in this case, from someone who has the power to make or destroy the commercial success of a product.
"I can't accept lack of basic suspension knowledge, hydraulics in this case, from someone who has the power to make or destroy the commercial success of a product."
So all those "you are oversprung and underdamped" is a lie then.
They do the same thing with HSC, LSC, and LSR based on air pressure, rider weight, and desired feel. I think Manitou could do a better job here, particularly with the rebound settings, but I felt setup wasn't overly complicated compared to other high end forks I've had.
Manitou isn't different in this, except that they aren't clever enough to triple check forks going to professional reviewers. Also, Fox would have sent an engineer to fix the fork and help achieve the optimal setup after receiving the preliminary results. Does that make the Fox fork we receive any better though? I accept that i have to check new products for grease and oil levels and can then buy a (subjectively) better fork for (usually) a lot less money. I've ridden Fox, Rockshox, X-Fusion and Manitou and my Mattoc with IRT is the best of the bunch. I haven't ridden a new 36 or Lyrik though.
Also: just ask other riders for help on PB, MTBR, etc.
If you find this all to complex: buy a Yari RC with the basic damper and take it to the dealer ones a year.
But you don't have to better understand a fork than the engineers that designed it to drop the lowers and check grease and oil.
I don't better understand my VW Golf than the German engineers that designed it, but I can check whether they filled the engine oil to the right level just fine.
- There are bad samples (we already knew that, but thanks for the warning)
- Bad samples perform below good samples of competing brands (less valuable information)
Also, bad small bump compliance can easily be attributed to a dry fork. The same cannot be said of bad cornering and a dry differential. Sorry to say, but it's a bad comparison.
I agree it takes some basic knowledge of suspension forks. On the other hand: who should spend $1,000 on a fork with HSC+LSC+LSR+IRT when lacking basic suspension knowledge? They are better off with a fork with only LSC and LSR. You can't screw settings if they aren't there.
This is weird. I weigh the same as you but run 20 and 30psi less pressure and more LSC damping. This lets the fork move quickly over rocks and roots while providing stability.
I suspect your bizarre setup is driven by your time on Lyrik RC2. The Lyrik has no usable LSC and little HSC so relies hugely on air pressure for support. So you setup a different fork the same way and got an underwhelming result.
He should be running more LSC also.
The Magnum with plus tyres was expected to run lower compression speeds due to the fatter and lower pressure tyres blunting more trail impacts. With lower speeds it needs more damping to get the same control and stop bouncing around. As plus sizing pretty much died and everyone installed normal size tyres the need for more damping disappeared.
Next time you get on a Mezzer, run it at 35/55psi and close LSC. Then go hunt roots at speed.
Yes, seriously. The complete opposite of your review settings. Less spring, more damping.
But with a magnum you've gotta take out the extra compression shims if you're not on plus tyres. I need to do a write up on that.
Also, differentials aren't usually dry from factory. Bad cornering is therefore not usually attributed to a dry differential, even if in the unlikely event of a dry differential, the cornering would be screwed like you said.
Unfortunately, suspension companies all seem to screw up QA/QC and dry or overfilled and overgreased forks are to be expected.
Car companies that deliver their cars in the same way would go bankrupt within a year.
Not trying to defend Manitou on the issue, or any manufacturer. Just explaining what happens in most bushing issues
The fact that Manitou didn't suggest this is their fault, but not checking the fork limits the use of the review for me.
Compared to the other forks I've tried, I've found the Mezzer to be more compliant and to track better than any of the others I've ridden recently, including the GRIP2. I was able to push into lines I otherwise hadn't tried or been able to because the fork helped my bike (Transition Sentinel, so I'm running it at 160) hold a line better and remain planted. I found both the GRIP2 and the Helm to have a somewhat similar feel to each other, that being fairly firmly damped as opposed to the Mezzer (and DVO for that matter). I definitely felt that the Mezzer provided more traction and a more planted feel compared to my time on the GRIP2, so I'm not sure where the discrepancy is there.
IMO the difference in feel will be based mainly on what you are looking for, if you wanted that firmer, racier feel then the GRIP2 is more likely to provide that (the damper adjustments on the GRIP2 seem to have a wider range, also), but if you want a more compliant ride then the Mezzer is a better option. The difference being that you can firm up the Mezzer to have that firmer feeling like the GRIP2, but you can't really adjust the GRIP2 to be as compliant as the Mezzer. I've put others on my bike who were on other forks (mainly the 36) and set the Mezzer up for them, they all noted the same impressions on the short rides they had.
Personally, I haven't been as blown away by the GRIP2 as the reviews I've read. It was a nice feeling fork for sure, but not as mind blowing as the experiences I've read about online.
I also found the pressures recommended by Manitou were off by a few PSI, but that could be written off as variations in shock pump readouts, as the main chamber is fairly sensitive to air pressure changes (2-3 psi can make a big difference in ride height). I ran ~2psi higher in the main and 5 higher in the IRT compared to what they recommended (215lb rider).
The bushing slop is, unfortunately, an issue. It seems to go away when the fork is compressed into the bushings slightly beyond top out, but it is there, although I can't say I've really felt it riding. I've had the same issues with some other forks, which doesn't excuse it, but it hasn't been an issue for me yet.
Another added benefit of the Mezzer for end users is the ability to rebuild it or work on it fairly easily as the end user and deal with Manitou customer support, which has been great for me so far. Compared to SRAM/RS, whose support for end users is non-existent, it's a lot easier to get help if you have an issue or question by calling Hayes/Manitou directly.
However SRAM/RS publishes all their technical manuals? I love that level of support for the home mechanic. I'm confused as to why you think they don't offer the same level of support? Full rebuild kits can be purchased from different distributors as well.
SRAM has all manuals and technical sheets online, FOX most of them. HBG Manitou...? Some stone old crap about Evolvers etc.
That could be a good thing or a bad thing, some shops are good and others aren’t. I’ve had shops say issues with suspension weren’t a problem despite them definitely being one and refuse warranty service. I prefer to cut out the middle man and deal with it myself.
@mikekazimer did you reach out to Manitou to ask about the bushing issues? Typically you have a response from the manufacturer when there is an issue that appears to be a defect, but that wasn't in this review, so I'm curious if something is being done to rectify it or if it was an issue with early runs of the fork.
I've been meaning to call Hayes and ask what the plan is for addressing it, but it's been a non-issue riding it since it goes away within the first few mm of compression. I've had forks from Fox and DVO do the same thing, the tolerance on bushings is really narrow, too tight and the fork will bind and be harsh, too loose and you get slop. If they are really loose, they can also bind and create harshness, but it doesn't seem to be that bad on my fork.
I replace bath oil and grease air springs on every fork when I get them in, there was sufficient bath oil in the lowers of mine from the factory and I put the specified amount back in. I've also used thicker/stickier oils like Supergliss to lubricate them, same issue. I expect it's a defect in early forks and hope it'll be resolved, but it was disappointing to not see any info on whether or not Manitou was contacted and asked about the issue.
The dent in my bank account for the last year and half disagrees, but feel free to continue telling me what I have and haven't ridden.
By compliant I mean that it tracks very well, rather than the front end bouncing around or skipping through the trail, it absorbs the impacts as opposed to transmitting them to the rider or through the rest of the bike. I guess that one common way of saying this is that the small bump compliance is very good. There are sections of trail where I was able to line up for certain corners with much more ease and without the front of the bike bouncing around as much.
For faster riders or terrain, the difference may be more negligible, firmly damped forks like the GRIP2 and Helm will tend to skip over small features rather than absorb them, but I still feel like the Mezzer tracks better in these circumstances than the other forks I've run (the DVO Diamond is arguably a bit of a similar feel).
I noticed on sequential larger features (e.g. stairs, multiple roots) it has a similar effect, it's less of a harsh spiking feel as it compresses and reaches the end of the stroke.
Does that clarify it some?
That's part of my excuse, anyway, the other part is that I like to fiddle with suspension and try new things, so if/when I find a good deal on something, I usually try it to get a feel for it and see if it helps.
Yeah I blew up my hand pretty good. Surgery. Pins.
The Fasst bars were a big improvement for me, it didn't do away with the pain entirely, but they helped damp sharp impacts and small vibrations alike. I was a bit bummed that 2 of the 4 the elastomers, except for yellow and orange, were kindof useless because they were so soft, but the firmer two work well for me.
You have a 30 day return window if you don't like them or they don't help you. They didn't solve my issues (I wish the 12 degree sweep model was available when I bought them), but they helped a lot at giving me more endurance on downhill segments and allowing me to avoid stopping to let my hand chill out.
There is some room for improvement with them, but it's a step in the right direction. I wish the mtb industry would do more to aggressively solve some of the hand issues that seem to plague people that ride regularly, we do a lot of damage to our hands and it can be prohibitive for those with pre-existing issues.
As an aside related to my input on the Mezzer, I ran both standard rigid bars and the Fasst bars with the fork to get a feel for it.
pinkbike: "@mike i love this thing i bought, did you try it with the wheel in? it sounds like you didn't have the wheel in. Have you ever ridden a bike?"
Now if you think Shimano/Fox conspiracy was evil... think of Sram and Trek
nonsense but companies prefer to have all forks in 15 andomly dh forks that nobody buys anyways in 20. And considering 35-38 uppers on most FR/DH forks, it does virtually nothing to handling
Same as people used to do with argyles and pikes
Or various fox versions like the vanilla float or talas in 32 or 36 variants.
If you couldn't work a 9mm QR you possibly struggled with working a pencil. They take the same amount of mechanical amplitude.
It was possibly the worst idea to become a de-facto standard in the whole industry.
The HSC settings are way more subtle.
Also I've had bushing issues, too tight, warrantied, then too loose, warrantied, now just right finally.
His megatrail weighs under 30 pounds, has dialed geometry, and the frame isn't overly stiff for his below average weight. The suspension curve is predictable, components are great for the price, with the exception of the DPX2 needing the rebound pretty much fully open for his weight. Whats just "ok" about it?
What bikes have you ridden that do amaze you? What kind of riding do you do?
Maybe stick to things you actually know vs things you wish you knew or think you know.
But thanks for playing.
Totally two different forks going on here.
As many others have stated; I wonder if there wasn't some kind of issue with this particular fork. If I was working at Manitou, I would definitely be sending up a new fork or even offering to send someone up to work with Mike Kazimer. to get this fork set up to his satisfaction.
MRP Coil.....terrible. Loads of stiction and damper spiking. Horrible experience with this fork.
2019 Fox 36 Grip/Grip2/FIT4 with vorsprung fractive tuning/Smashpot in that order.....the FIT4 with all the vorsprung catalogue thrown at it was the best option out them all (surprisingly lol), the only real negative was the extra weight.
2020 Lyrik Select.....had to run max spacers to get some support as the damper side didn't give any. Damper very spiky...not nice. Needs damper mods or the HC97 to help.
The Mezzer on the first day beat all the above hands down. I've never had a standard fork perform so strongly out of the box. With further tuning (and it does take a little while getting the pressures to your preferred) it got even better. Such impressive control.
Also easier to work on than any other fork (not that any are difficult) but it's like it has designed for easy commonsense maintenance...no silly crush washers or teflon infused wanky oil.
Check out bikeradar for another review that seems to be more in line with how everyone else is finding this fork. Maybe you got a bad one Mike?
The abundant midstroke support he's talking about is going to be there from the IRT pressure, so he should have lowered the main pressure, even to a sag level that seems much too high, like 30-35%. Then you can speed up the rebound a little to keep it responsive, and the compression adjusters will do there job at that point. Think of the air spring like a 2 stage coil. He's running both coils too firm, and then complains about the compression?
Setup on the Manitou is night and day different than a Fox or RS so its not surprising he didn't get it. This review needs to be completely re-done. And the bushing slop? While completely extended the fork does have a small amount of play, but when riding it is unnoticeable, and the forks action is buttery smooth. Against a DVO diamond, CC helm coil, and fox 36 with Avalanche open bath cartridge and Push acs coil setup, this fork blows them all away by a longshot.
I’m not trying to be overly critical, but the fact you said a 2-3 psi difference wouldn’t effect feel (this is objectively false in a fork with IRT) and your experiences are so radically different that my own and other reviews leads me to believe something is amiss.
Agree on the bushing play, though. I’d like to get a response from Manitou on that. Did you experience it at any point outside of full extension? Mine knocks a bit when it’s fully extended, but that’s it.
And I'm confident in my findings because I took the time to try multiple settings, and bracket tested to try the range of compression options.
know you played around plenty around with the fork in an effort to make it ride decent. That’s the job, right?
That you didn’t find the love is more about the fork than it is about you.
Go have a beer on me, you deserve a break for going against the grain.
I´ll stick to my Lyrik RC
Pretty much identical to what was described in the pinkbike review from 2016: m.pinkbike.com/news/manitou-mattoc-pro-2-review-2016.html
I agree with the sentiment that the reviewer ended up with too high air pressures. I am almost the same weight, running the fork at 140mm and run 49 / 80 psi in the Mezzer. This nets about 20% sag, great suppleness, support, and bottom out resistance. For the reviewer to be +20mm travel, and +7 psi main pressure... no wonder it didn't feel very good.
@mikekazimer what are the lowest pressure combos you tried to run?
Any chance you were changing main pressure with the front wheel resting on the ground? You really have to make sure the fork is topped out before disconnecting the pump, because of the negative chamber filling method.
"Messer" is knife, "Metzger" is butcher - FYI
Production issues like low oil or irt and seal without grease (common on the mezzer) can't be justified and plays a role on how the fork works.
forums.mtbr.com/attachments/shocks-suspension/1250154d1557152619-manitou-mezzer-image001.png
Without checking, this review might not be useful for people that do a quick checkup of their new forks.
Can also be positive, Manitou has another feel than a RS or FOX, i like it better...
My 20mm Fox 36 Factory is going to be difficult to replace even though I am not in lust with the damping. Maybe the only answer is a MORC 36 with my 20mm lowers from Mojo Rising and a re-valve? I guess we all get too picky that virtually no MFG will address the flex issues on longer travel, slacker frames in a meaningful way(Bartlett excepted). You simply cannot convince me that a 15mm axle with no fork clamp on the lowers can equal the feel and security of a 20mm fully clamped down axle. Lightweight, dual crown forks are gonna be the answer. I ran dual crown shortened forks on my trail bikes 20 years ago. Going to larger single crown forks is going to require more mass in the crowns and eventually frame headtube changes for beefier bearings and 1.5" steerer tubes again. Dual crown distributes the loads much better and will allow sufficient assembly structures at 35/36mm stanchion dimensions.
Knock on wood. Who's with me?
Will Fox and RockShox offer travel change with requiring new airshafts?
Yari on the squish bike. Does well with set sag and forget it.
Maybe I'm missing something.
Whats the difference between the different fork offset's? Better Handling etc.? thx for helping
shorter offset= longer trail
slacker head angle = longer trail
bigger wheels= longer trail.
longer trail makes for a "slower" steering feel.
Trail/wheelbase ratio is an huge factor when looking at bike's stability.
It’s like that.
That said heard nothing but good things about their forks sooo yeah probably fine.
But again like I said heard a lot of good stuff about their forks.
Ever been smoked by a 9 year old?
He gives 0 sh*ts about rebound and small bump compliance. Just sends black trails. All day.
Also what is this small bump compliance you speak of? *continues to smoke the local Xc guys on my bmx*
I wish I had black trails local.
It will be interesting to see what NSMB has to say about it once they finish their long term review: they had a pretty positive first look article.
It is not not the obly fork or shock that had problems during a test. Let us hope that is not the normality.
Refering to the qualities. This is the only bsd review.
If you are interested have a look at the reviews on mtbmag, nsmb, bikeradar. They are veeeery positive and the same results as many users that really love those forks.
I am waiting to hopp an mine fir the first test
We always start at the manufacturer's recommended settings with any product testing.
Love how one day at the bike park with a few runs "back to back" with the main market contenders (read: sponsors) is considered a "REVIEW" here. Seems more like a first impressions writing but who am I to say otherwise. I have a Lyrik RC2 (2018 model) and feel like it can't figure out whether it wants to be a pogo stick or a couch. Some days it will ride good, feel supple off the top but have a hard time with midstroke or deep travel, other days it will be the opposite. Then there are the days that it doesn't want to play at all and basically riding my full ridged would feel on par. Have changed out seals, done oil change in lower legs, bled the damper and threw a ShockWiz on it for a few weeks. Still the same.
Guess since that is how this review of the Mezzer was written, this could be my official Lyrik RC2 review?! Guess that is why I take most PB reviews with a very large grain of salt.
As for your Lyrik, I'm not sure what could be causing those issues. Have you tried the old zip tie behind the dust wiper trick? Sometimes that can improve the ride feel, especially if you've been doing a bunch of DH runs with bigger elevation changes. But it should never feel like a fully rigid fork - something isn't right there.
However, I do admit that I have never had good experiences with either RS or Fox and from the years that I have been part of the PB community, they have always been heavily RS/Fox focused and oriented. It is a rare occasion that you will see a bad or negative review on those two brands here on PB. Hence the comment about taking most reviews with a large grain of salt. But that is only my 2cents, and who am I other than a lowly internet responder.
But the thing is, can you quantify "plenty" of ride time?
I approach explanative, or detail oriented, writing as though the person reading it has no indication of what something vague like that means. If you were about to jump out of an airplane with someone and asked them how much training/practice they had and their response was "plenty" would you feel safe?
While that is my own personal thing, and I feel that PB is very RS/FOX oriented in all their reviews, why would I take such a comment, however brief and buried in "a review" as more than "I threw it on the bike and did a few laps, probably less than 20 miles, on my home trails and thought... Meh, that's good enough." Qualitative vs. Quantitative? Again, months of ride time is still a vague statement. That could mean that it was simply "on your bike" for months of ride time, or it could mean that you put in at least 10 miles a day on your local trails, 3-5 times a week for X amount of months.
Which is a more descriptive statement about a review of a bike...
"I have put months of ride time on the new 2019 Get Revved Guerrilla Gravity The Smash, and can say that is one of the best bikes I have ridden to-date. Regardless of the front end being pointed uphill or downhill."
or
"I have put averaged 15 miles a ride, 3 to 5 times a week on the new 2019 Get Revved Guerrilla Gravity The Smash since April of this year, and can say that it is one of the best bikes I have ridden to-date. Regardless of the front end being pointed uphill or downhill."
However, that is all subjective and personal preference. The writing style, information provided, etc., while referred to in the title as a "REVIEW" was more of a first impressions, nothing more. More detail of the riding done, other than some time on your local trails and an eluded to single park day, would have gone a long way to fill in some of the gaps in the information in my mind.
But like I said to @Socket, But that is only my 2cents, and who am I other than a lowly internet responder.
Also, I agree something is up with the Lyrik on my bike. However, contacts to RS, either personally or through my LBS, have gone mostly unanswered. Similar to my issues with my Code R brakes that I have received a basic "Yeah, those are ones we feel don't need warrantying" type response even though I have had to bleed them every 200 miles or less to ensure I have adequate stopping power, no brake fade and do not completely lose modulation (not the sticky piston/mc issue) lends to my furthered dislike for RS suspension and braking components. Still absolutely love their drivetrain stuff though.
Could be just me as I have never had great luck with SRAM/RS stuff. For me the stuff always seems to work for a while but then suddenly start having issues (like a bad luck used car). Had same thing with an old RS Revy dual air, worked great for a little over a year then suddenly wouldn't hold air in the negative chamber. Tried everything but eventually just got tossed in the bin. RS/SRAM definitely have ZERO customer service for this stuff and want you to go through your LBS but when they won't help your LBS that makes it hard to get things handled/warrantied.
i still have mine in the garage.
only thing what all agree is LSC not making big difference.
And on the review, its the first negative review I have heard. And that includes coming from people that actually tune and work on suspension forks day in and day out. As well as some early test riders of the fork.